/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7839089
>a newcomer
most dishonest approach possible for your question.

Who made Saturn's disc drive? JVC. Who made Sony's disc drive? Sony.

Some "Newcomer" you got there.

Overcomplicated architecture, high price point, screwing over western developers and retailers, bad consumer reputation after the Sega CD and 32X. This has been discussed to death.

>>7839102
...What?

>>7839105
Sony wasn't a newcomer to gaming. They were ubiquitous in the scene for over 20 years.

What went wrong

Why did it not have any games

Why did third parties abandon it so quickly

How did it get btfo by a newcomer

>>7839112
Maybe in the software space and in manufacturing disc drives and sound chips, but there's a big difference between that and the entire rigmarole that comes with developing, selling, and marketing a whole console.

What happened?

The invisible hand of the market.

we have this thread every day, Allah make these faggots go away

After buying the 32x no way was I gonna drop more money on a Saturn when it came out. Low effort/shovelware on a Genesis add-on and then they were like lol here's another console please consoom.

>>7839115
Cartridges
Marketing only for kids
No square

>>7839089
Sega Japan vs. Sega America

>>7839131
the 32X only got made because Sega were worried about the Atari Jaguar snapping up their slice of the 32-bit market share (lol) and wanted something out by the Holiday 1994 window to be able to keep their foot in the door in case the Saturn had to be delayed.

The second it became clear the Saturn was on route, the 32X should've been silently cancelled.

>"We stormed the hill, and when we got to the top we realized it was the wrong damn hill.“ ~ Scot Bayless, Former Senior Producer at Sega of America

>>7839152
I got burned by the Jaguar too. I'd say the only failed console I liked was the 3DO cause at least it had some good games on it and was bleeding edge for a little while.

>>7839164
>the 3DO cause at least it had some good games on it

lol

>>7839197
It has better games than the Jaguar.

>>7839089
- Was weaker than the Playstation at 3D despite costing more

- More tedious to develop games on due to the retardedly designed hardware

- Being a bigger corp, Sony could afford paying off 3rd-party developers with exclusivity deals

It was a fuck-up from the very get-go, the DC fixed everything wrong with the Shiturn but by then it was too late, Sega had sealed their fate.

>>7839089
>What went wrong
Everything went right. We got a bunch of all time classics between 1994 and 2000.

>Why did it not have any games
1047

>Why did third parties abandon it so quickly
Final game by capcom in 2000.

>How did it get btfo by a newcomer
Ignorant Zoomer much?

Sega of Japan was basically ran by people who had the mentality of teenagers. They had no business running the company.

>>7840993
And yet they are still there. Where as SEGA of Amerifat is long gone.

>>7840983
>Ignorant Zoomer much?
not OP but I cringed

Sega's own internal failings notwithstanding, the gaming landscape started to calm in the late 90s. The transition from the 16 bit to 32 bit generation was rocky with a bunch of false starts. The gaming audience was being pulled every which way in a very competitive landscape that kept changing nearly daily because of the lightning fast evolution of computer technology. Look at how many players were relevant in 1995 in the top banner of Game Informer. Things really started to quiet down a few years later and the market really started to consolidate and established an equilibrium that was much less chaotic.

>>7841045
Forgot to tie it together and point out that Sega was a natural victim of this consolidation.

>>7839089
There was no reason to support it considering the Chadstation was easier to program on, had the larger install base, and offered companies cheaper licensing fees than Sega or Ninty.

Sega would've been smarter to drop out of consoles and go third-party after the MD.

>>7841017
Thank you for letting us know how you feel about the post. You may sit down again now.

>>7841045
Thanks Reddit.

>>7839089
>What went wrong
botched american launch with 32x, costed $100 more than the playstation, no killer app at lauch
>Why did it not have any games
it has some good arcade ports in japan
>Why did third parties abandon it so quickly
they didn't in japan. the saturn had better 3rd party support than the n64
>How did it get btfo by a newcomer
sony had been working with nintendo for years so they learned how the business worked and what nintendo and sega were doing wrong.

>>7840983
You can't change history with cope.
Keep seething, faggot.

>>7841010
And they're a mere shadow of what they once were.
They're regarded as has-beens who else out an existence with weeb shit.

>>7841318
Problematic personality.

>>7841326
You're on the wrong site if you can't handle certain words.

Everything would have been fine without Sega Of America. All you dumb fucks would have been happy, running around with your little dumpy plumber guy. Pretending that somehow he is a westaboo character. Instead of whining all day long. Srsly fuck back off to TOP FIVE REASONS WHY & HOW SEGA FAILED IN EXCRUCIATING DETAIL. Dont forget to flagellate yourself, like, comment and subscribe.

>>7841356
still seething after all these years

>>7841373
>seething
Yikes!

>>7841356
>Still blaming Sega of America for Sega of Japan's fuckups more than two decades later.
Segatards are truly irredeemable morons

>>7841404
Very low IQ ? ;-)

>>7839089
I can understand the Saturn failing.
What i don't understand is how the dreamcast faild. I was blown away by the games. Price was very good and they had the market for them self for a long time to get a good headstart.

I still fucking love Sega

>>7841428
the Dreamcast failed because they were already bankrupt from the Saturn. Nothing they released would have been successful, they were literally losing millions upon millions because the Saturn was such a failure.

>>7841438
*Australian, self serving fan fiction.

>>7841447
what the fuck are you talking about

>>7839147
>Marketing only for kids
How so? Id say that the games on Saturn were too niche. A lot of the best games were arcade ports, which was a dying market.

>>7841447
The what mate.

>>7841456
He wasn't alive then and knows nothing about the marketing. N64 is literally the only Nintendo console that wasn't considered faggy kid shit.

>>7841438
This. They'd been in the red years before the Dreamcast, which managed to recoup some of Sega's losses from '99 to '00, but not enough to bring them back out of the red that was caused by the Dreamcast's piece of shit predecessor.

>>7841438
>the Dreamcast failed because
Since this bullshit lie keeps being repeated by this boards number 1 gaslighter and pathological liar... This is what actually happened. All around idiot Bernie Stolar announced the Dreamcast in the west for 199. Which was way under MANUFACTURING COST. But once said, and printed, SEGA couldn't take it back. Some say it was sabotage by Stolar even. We may never know. But bleeding money with every single Dreamcast console being sold to customers, resulted in the following scenario: SEGA had to stop manufacturing Dreamcast consoles. And that is exactly what they did. And what ultimately ended the Dreamcast everywhere in the world.

>>7839089
It was expensive as fuck at launch and too complicated too develop for. The surprise launch in the US also hurt it in that market

>>7841494
What the fuck are you talking about you actual schizo, the Saturn literally bankrupted them before the Dreamcast even existed

>>7841512
>bankrupted them
Lets see the "actual" bankruptcy filing, faggot. By the way new hardware R & D doesn't come for free actual retard.

>>7839152
Everyone laughs about Sega being worried about the Jaguar but from what I understand the Jag had near PS1 specs, and the only reason it doesn’t produce PS1 graphics is because of some corner cutting on the hardware that caused bottlenecks.
Remember Rayman was originally made for Jag and had to be cut down to run on the PS1. You can kinda see this in Jag CD games like Highlander which look like 486 DOS games.

>>7841521
Imagine being so delusional that you refuse to accept filled legal reports about a companies financial situation in favor of your own retarded headcanon

>>7841539
Stop fucking projecting and slap some actual proof on the table. Or better yet get your fucking head fixed by the good doctors who treat NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER.

>>> https://www.nhs.uk/

>>7841542
I posted proof of their massive losses during the saturns lifespan. unironically take your fucking meds.

>>7841538
A lot of devs were too lazy to actually develop for the Jaguar architecture which resulted in them deving for the underpowered 16 bit processor in the system instead of the two 32 bit ones (one of which had the 64 bit bus that was marketed)

The problems with the Jaguar are that Atari had completely fucked their reputation and as a result they had to get B team studios to make exclusive games for it which came out mediocre as fuck mixed with third parties half assing ports and not taking advantage of the hardware, along with the shitty controller.

The console design itself is pretty neat and honestly I do believe there's a timeline where the Jaguar could've succeeded; the hardware, branding, console design and marketing were all pretty good. There were just no games.

>>7841538
Regardless, Atari's name was pretty much cancerous after the crash.
They could probably have shipped an Atari Jaguar with Gamecube-level specs and a free blowjob included in 1992, and people still wouldn't have bought it because it was Atari.

>>7841494
You do realise almost nobody actually markets consoles at manufacturing cost? Consoles are sold as loss-leaders with the expectation that software sales will make up for any losses on the hardware itself. When Sony TRIED to sell the PS3 at manufacturing cost, they lost a gigantic chunk of their customer base to Microsoft's Xbox 360.
Your post is 100% bullshit.
>>7841521
Technically Sega never declared bankruptcy, but only because Irimajiri personally injected half of his money into the company itself. If he hadn't have done that, they would have been forced to, so getting this angry about it is pedantic at best. Knock it off.

>>7841494
>All around idiot Bernie Stolar announced the Dreamcast in the west for 199. Which was way under MANUFACTURING COST. But once said, and printed, SEGA couldn't take it back.

That's impossible. That's too stupid even for Sega. No company would be able to justify to investors that they're choosing financial suicide over the short term embarrassment of raising a price tag.

>>7842176
Also, selling consoles at a loss was an emerging strategy at the time (and still is) so it might not have been a fuck up but an actual plan that ended up blowing up in their faces when the software attachment rate was piss poor.

>>7839089
It had loads of games, they were all stuck in Japan.

>>7841494
Bernie did the right thing, more consoles sold at a lower price point meant there would be more owners to buy software and cover for the loss. Problem was, Sega of Japan left a vulnerability in the Dreamcast which allowed for easy piracy.

What went wrong

Why did it not have any games

Why did third parties abandon it so quickly

How did it get btfo by a newcomer

>>7841794
>You do realise almost nobody actually markets consoles at manufacturing cost? Consoles are sold as loss-leaders with the expectation that software sales will make up for any losses on the hardware itself.
The problem wasn't selling at a loss, it's that the amount lost was extremely high. It's why even though you see profits go down in the graph here with the Saturn >>7841512 it goes into a full free-fall with the US launch of the Dreamcast.

Sega of Japan didn't sell the Dreamcast at that low of a price on launch, but had to suddenly match the US price to avoid reverse-importing. In Japan Dreamcast launched at 29,800 Yen, which is a little under $300, and was probably still at a loss. Now imagine how much of a massive loss cutting it by $100 in less than a year would be?

>>7839089
>What went wrong
Basically everything, most specifically Sega being a terrible inept company that seems to be staffed only by retarded hacks and fuckups.

>Why did it not have any games?
The system was designed only by Sega's Japanese division, and they only looked at the Japanese market. They thought having near-perfect arcade ports at home was the future of gaming and designed it around that. As it turns out (even in Japan) arcade perfect ports were not the future of gaming, increasingly complex and long 3D games were.

>Why did third parties abandon it so quickly?
The architecture was insanely fucking weird and difficult to work with, and again, the future of gaming was complex 3D video games, not short arcade games. Also the thing sold fucking horribly outside of Japan. Also it didn't sell that well -in- Japan, its domestic success is wildly overstated by the defense force.

>How did it get BTFO by a newcomer
The Playstation was more affordable, more profitable, had better games, had better hardware all around, and Sony was already one of the most well-known and trusted names in consumer electronics for over a decade at that point anyway. Sega meanwhile was considered a joke company after the Sega CD and 32x both bombed horribly, only to have YET ANOTHER new system come out.

>>7840983
Hello Sega Lord X

>>7840983
>We got a bunch of all time classics
Like what? Don't name a Panzer Dragoon game and definitely don't name fucking NIGHTS which is horrible.

What was the killer app of the system? Where's the masterpiece? When I was a kid I was subscribed to tons of different video game magazines, and not ONCE in those magazines did I see a Saturn game aside from either Panzer Dragoon 2 or Panzer Dragoon Saga make a list of "Best Games of All Time."

It is a historically irrelevant console. You could literally delete the thing and its entire library from existence and NOTHING about the progression of video games would be changed.

>>7843635
>What was the killer app of the system
Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter 2, Sega Rally, and Grandia were some of the top sellers on it.
>It is a historically irrelevant console.
No, that's something like the CD-i which is only remembered for having bad Zelda games.

>>7843559
the US launch of the Dreamcast was the closest Sega ever came to profitability after the Saturn, which is reflected in that graph. They lost massive amounts in 2000 after they were unable to keep the sales up because of PS2 hype, and they resorted to more or less giving Dreamcasts away for $100 and then $50, or free with a 2 year Seganet subscribtion, which they didn't even get the payout for as the service died the nexxt year. They lost the most money the next year in 2001 after they stopped manufacturing any console in January.
The entire idea that the Dreamcast being sold for $50 less killed the company when they were already bleeding money from 5 years of the Saturn being irrelevant everywhere in the world but one country where it didn't even sell 10 million units, and more or less didn't even register there past 97 and the launch of FF7, is literal cope..

>>7843947
>the US launch of the Dreamcast was the closest Sega ever came to profitability after the Saturn, which is reflected in that graph.
You're reading it wrong. The graph shows that they're starting improve towards the end of the Saturn's life (as the hardware got cheaper to make) and after the Japanese Dreamcast launch and selling that system at a reasonable price. The US launch is at the end of 1999 so we don't see it's full impact yet. We do see it going into 2000 though where all profits completely tank to levels lower than the Saturn ever had them.
>The entire idea that the Dreamcast being sold for $50 less killed the company
It was $100 less, and that was at launch. That's before we even get to the crazy promotions Sega was doing to try and make the thing fly off shelves. Japan was selling it at ~$299 at launch (the same as the PS2 launch price). That price was still probably at a loss, but a manageable one. Then Bernie Stolar decided to cut it by another $100 less than a year later forcing Sega of Japan to follow suit. That is not a smart business move and is going to severely hurt profits. It took an improving situation and turned it into a full blown hemorrhage.

>>7842630
Mini disks
Mini disks
Mini disks
Mini disks

>>7842630
Bit out by what newcomer? The Xbox lost $4 billion.

It has good games.

>>7843975
>The graph shows that they're starting improve towards the end of the Saturn's life (as the hardware got cheaper to make)

The Saturn's hardware never became significantly cheaper to make, even though they did try to simplify it when possible (they removed discrete 68k and sh1 cpus, changed the sh2s to a dual core single chip).
The reason they are improving by 98-99 is because they stopped making the Saturn in as great quantities as before, so they lost less money. Hideki Sato confirmed this in an interview, and analysis of the serial numbers also backs it up. Half the units they made in 1998 were limited edition ones (V-Saturn, Skeleton Saturn, Derby Stallion Skeleton) that they could even price higher.

>>7843975
>The US launch is at the end of 1999 so we don't see it's full impact yet.
The launch was the full impact of the Dreamcast in the US. They sold more Dreamcasts from launch to the end of the year than the did for the rest of the 14 months it was being made. The Dreamcast was a complete flop in Japan, and never moved the needle there for anything. Sega as a company was never a factor in Japan on the home side outside of the Virtua Fighter craze. The Saturn was a non-factor after 97 and every other console they made was irrelevant there its entire life.

>>7844114
It lost Nintendo market share and was third place in console sales. Microsoft has plenty of money to throw away.

>>7843671
>No, that's something like the CD-i which is only remembered for having bad Zelda games.
The thing most associated with the Saturn is a 40 minute long game where a jester flys through hoops and that no one praises for its actual gameplay but for its presentation. The Saturn library has nothing but downgraded arcade ports. Even the fabled Japan only library every retard fawns over doesn't exist outside of SHUMPs and 5ish fighting games that use RAM carts and is otherwise just a bunch of multiplats that are Japan only because the consoles marketshare everywhere else in the world wasn't worth the cost of releasing them on more than the PS1.

>>7844145
>Hideki Sato confirmed this in an interview
That interview is talking about around launch.
>analysis of the serial numbers also backs it up.
The guy who has done the serial number database has admitted that what he has isn't an entirely accurate picture of total units made and sold. What we do know from Sega's official numbers is that they sold about 9.2 Million Sega Saturns, and of those about 2-2.5 Million were from the US, EU, etc., the remaining 7 or so Million were from Japan. Sega's financial report from 1998 backs those numbers up and states that Saturn software sales in Japan was helping the company be profitable. By 1998 they sold 8.8 Million Saturns world wide and 80 million games, giving it an attach rate of about 9:1.

So yes, Saturn was becoming cheaper to sell through consolidating the hardware (Still not as cheap as a PSone, but still cheaper none the less), and software sales were helping Sega become profitable again. The Dreamcast beings old for a reasonable price in Japan helped keep this trend going up until the US DC launch.
>>7844149
>The launch was the full impact of the Dreamcast in the US.
But that chart is worldwide. And what we see is Sega slowly becoming profitable again in 1998 and into 1999 which aligns with the Saturn becoming cheaper, still pushing software, and Dreamcast being sold for a reasonable price. It tanks soon after, which aligns with the US DC Launch.
>They sold more Dreamcasts from launch to the end of the year than the did for the rest it's life.
Which is probably why profits nosedive around the time of it's US launch.
>The Dreamcast was a complete flop in Japan
It still sold out on launch, and there wasn't enough to meet demand. That said the argument was profitability, which being sold at a more reasonable price made it more profitable there. Sure in the US it was selling hand over foot, but the loss was so huge it caused Sega to hemorrhage money.
>the Saturn was a non-factor after 97
Only outside of Japan.

>>7844186
>The thing most associated with the Saturn is a 40 minute long game where a jester flys through hoops and that no one praises for its actual gameplay but for its presentation.
I'd say the Panzer Dragoon series and Sega Rally is more associated with the Saturn at this point than NiGHTS.
>The Saturn library has nothing but downgraded arcade ports.
Good to know you know nothing about the library. Yes it has a lot of Arcade ports (some damn good ones too), but there's more to it than that.

>>7844163
Losing billions for a slight sales lead over a competitor that was profitable throughout is a really dumb definition of "btfo."

>>7844204
>the Saturn was a non-factor after 97
>Only outside of Japan.
The Saturn's Japanese success is overblown. The Saturn was stable, yes, but that was largely a consequence of the N64 being far worse off in Japan than overseas and NEC completely shitting the bed after having previously dominated the Mega Drive. It wasn't succeeding so much as existing.

>>7844204
>And what we see is Sega slowly becoming profitable again in 1998 and into 1999 which aligns with the Saturn becoming cheaper,
The Saturn wasn't selling anywhere from 97 on, what do you not understand about this? It never sold outside Japan and almost all of its sales there were 94-97 when it was selling at a massive loss. They stopped making Saturns because the demand for them was low, and they were still losing a ton of money on manufacturing them.
>and Dreamcast being sold for a reasonable price. It tanks soon after, which aligns with the US DC Launch.
Your ability to only see what you want to see is hilarious. The Dreamcast being available for 1 month in 98 and their losses "only" being 32 million, is a sign of things moving in the right direction. The dreamcast launch sales for 4 months in the US which broke every electronic record ever at the time, while they get the closet they got for 6 years to making money is a sign that the US launch killed the company. I don't even see a reason to continue this discussion with you when you're going to be this intellectually dishonest.

>>7844210
>Good to know you know nothing about the library. Yes it has a lot of Arcade ports (some damn good ones too), but there's more to it than that.
Name 10 Saturn exclusives that arent SHUMPs or Arcade ports. Even better name some of these fabled Japan only exclusive games everyone loves to talk about but never name.

>>7843635
>What was the killer app of the system?

who talks like this? "killer app" wtf lmao

People need to come to terms with the fact that Sega was primarily an arcade business that never got the hang of the home console market and fell ass backwards into good luck for about 4 or 5 years. They rode that wave for a while subsisting on pure momentum but there was never anything approaching a coherent strategy in the entire time between the SG-1000 and the Dreamcast.

>>7844443
zoom zoom.

>>7839089
>What went wrong
Bernie Stolar.

>Why did it not have any games
It had plenty of games you stupid casual.

>Why did third parties abandon it so quickly
Bernie Stolar

>How did it get btfo by a newcomer
PS1 was cheaper and then Bernie Stolar killed the Saturn by saying "Saturn isn't our future".

>>7839089
Cool another Saturn thread made by a zoomer whose only knowledge of the system was gleaned from watching retarded "retro youtuber" videos filled with incorrect info.

Go back to plebbit. I mean this unironically.

>>7842630
No online multiplayer support outside of PSO and third-party workarounds for Mario Kart and Kirby Air Ride
No GTA
Limited storage capacity discs
No edgy exclusive FPS (Metroid was the closest thing but it didn't appeal to the tastes of the 12 year old Nu Metal Mountain Dew crowd)
No DVD playback
"Wahhhhh Mario Sunshine's FLUDD gimmick fucking sucks and Zelda looks like a babby gaem Nintendo just makes shitty games for little kids"
Resident Evil 4 came out too late in the console's lifespan to make a significant impact and got a PS2 port less than a year later

I love my Sarurn

>>7843635
>It is a historically irrelevant console. You could literally delete the thing and its entire library from existence and NOTHING about the progression of video games would be changed.

Virtua Fighter's polygonal engine was what caused Sony to initiate a major push toward 3D graphics over 2d graphics on the Playstation (because "3d was the future").

Sega Rally's use of different grip characteristics on different road surfaces were what inspired Codemasters to make a realistic rally game (which became the Colin McRae Rally/Dirt series).

The work Sega did on the Netlink paved the way for Seganet, which would show the viability of internet connected multiplayer gaming on home consoles.

The Saturn's support for add-in VCD cards (and the resulting popularity of the device as a VCD player in Asia) was what caused Sony to position the PS2 as a DVD player, which was one of the major factors in its early success (in the year 2000 the PS2's price of $300 made it the cheapest DVD player on the market).

There are plenty of other examples of the Saturn having an instrumental hand in shaping the video game industry, you're just a stupid zoomer who wasn't around back then and your post proves it.

>>7839089

>>7845978
>Virtua Fighter & Sega Rally
The arcade versions of those games. Nobody gave a fuck about the Saturn ports, the sales reflect this.

>>7845887
Would it have really made a difference if Stolar weren't a dope? Ok, maybe the Saturn doesn't get outright discontinued in 1998 and maybe it gets a few more games localized like the Capcom fighters and the shitty SOTN port in the process but what does that actually change?

>>7846325
>but what does that actually change?
Assuming Saturn has a lower price, gets worthy exclusives and gives special deals, we're looking at Sega saving it's own ass, as well as not pissing off retailers, restoring trust, faith and confidence in the Sega Saturn. At best it will sell at least 30 million units worldwide, at worst it will sell 20 million units worldwide(same as Gamecube). It will be in third place, but at least it wouldn't be in debt and they would have enough in their budget to produce a more powerful Dreamcast with DVD compatibility.

>>7846449
>restoring trust, faith and confidence in the Sega Saturn.
I think the moves which Sega made from late '95 through the end of '96 were them doing everything in their power to re-build trust and confidence in their brand. Nothing Sega could have done in '97 sans Stolar would have saved them. The longer the Saturn lives the larger their debt will be for its hardware successor.

>>7846309
The Saturn had a 1:1 attach rate of Virtua Fighter to system sales in Japan.

It's clear you don't know what you are talking about, and you are just embarrassing yourself.

>>7839089
sega made a 3d system without telling anyone how to program 3d games in it. i dont know what the fuck they were expecting

>>7846549
anon you have to subtract console pack-in sales from game sales in general

>>7848110
Sega's idiotic dealings with devs didn't help anything, but its more like they made a 2.5D system and tried desperately to get full 3D games to run on it. The Saturn struggled to run every multiplat, and even Sega's own in house teams couldn't get full on 3D games to run on it. There's absolutely no chance the Saturn could have run games like MGS, Dino Crisis, or Soul Reaver.

>>7843635
Radiant Silvergun, Sakura Wars, Grandia

>>7848381
None of those are "masterpieces" though. They're the kinds of games that round out a library, not the ones that establish it's identity.

>>7848390
NiGHTS and Panzer Saga are considered among the best of all time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best

>>7848381
>arcade game, VN, multiplat

>>7848418
Radiant Silvergun ran on Saturn hardware in arcades while the other two debuted on Saturn

>>7848407
Panzer Dragoon Saga was sold in such low quantities it's a $500 game today. Final Fantasy VII sold 10 million. It's just not a fair matchup.

>>7848425
Panzer Dragoon Saga also only had like 10k total copies printed for the western release.

>>7841794
>You do realise almost nobody actually markets consoles at manufacturing cost?
Its called the gillette strategy. And no, nintendo does not believe in it.

>>7842176
>That's impossible. That's too stupid even for Sega.
sega japan thought they could turn things around, IF they sold enough software per sold console, to the customer. They did not manage to do that. Because the dreamcast games weren't attractive enough. They gambled, and lost.

source SEGA.

here: https://youtu.be/eD7JYqty8aE

and here: https://youtu.be/kzXSZTk-J8A

>>7845960

In the words of chadwardenn himself, it ain’t got games

They should have streamlined their main processors into a single unit, and put a 68000 in it with a compatible MD cart slot for backwards compatibility.

>>7848114
Virtua Fighter was not a pack in, it was a standalone product. It literally sold 1:1 in Japan.

Just stop, you don't know what you are talking about.

>>7848390
>Radiant Silvergun, Sakura Wars, and Grandia are not masterpieces

Holy shit, you're either retarded, trolling, or have absolute shit taste in videogames. Could even be all three.

>>7848790
segata sanshiro!

>>7849226
>diamond dozen JRPG garbage and a shitty VN
>masterpieces
Don't mention those in the same sentence as Radiant Silvergun.

>>7849243
Grandia is one of the best JRPGs of all time. The Saturn version looks and runs better than the PS1 version, and now that the English translation has been released it's a game every Saturn owner should play.

>>7849271
I tried playing it and the first 20 minutes was just running around watching cutscenes. Is this the power of JRPGs?

>>7849273
> He got filtered by Grandia

Holy shit lol

>>7849282
>getting bored by a lack of gameplay is being "filtered"
I see that word has lost all meaning.

>>7849284
The fact that you "played" a game for "20 minutes" and then got "bored" means you should get tested for ADHD.

I'm sorry that Grandia doesn't have bright flashing colors, explosions, and tits immediately after starting the game, maybe you should quit posting on a board for retro games and go back to playing Fortnight?

>>7849289
I agree with you on putting "played" in quotes, since all I did was walk around and watch cutscenes. JRPGs are an outlier when it comes to retro game pacing, most games from back then were exciting within the first few minutes, as they should be.

>>7849295
>most games from back then were exciting within the first few minutes, as they should be.

Like I said, ADHD

>>7849315
>first 20 minutes is just walking around watching cutscenes written for children
Like I said, boring.

>>7849324
Why are you even posting on a board for retro games when it's abundantly clear that your brain is so fried by dopamine that you can't enjoy anything that doesn't assault you with instant gratification from the first second it starts?

Shouldn't you be watching Rick and Morty with the volume cranked up while simultaneously playing a mobile game right now?

>>7849329
Retro gaming was totally all about cutscenes and storytelling for children. I remember the 30 minute introduction to Super Mario Bros or the hour long cutscene at the start of Doom. Classics right there.

>>7849335
You're an actual friedbrain retard. The fact that you can't fathom the difference between a rudimentary 2D platformer and an RPG is hilarious to me.

Get tested for ADHD. I'm serious.

>>7849375
Is there something about the JRPG genre that requires it to have a boring 20 minute intro where you read dialog written for toddlers?

>>7849289
>bright flashing colors, explosions, and tits immediately
Dude, i would totally buy your games. Just sayin.

Saturn's memory cartridge slot should have been a BC Genesis cartridge slot, that would have boosted sales even if they stopped making Genesis games

>>7849376
You're right, every RPG should start out with explosions and gunfire. In fact, they should streamline the game and get rid of all of that pesky "exposition" and "character building", and focus straight on the action. Get rid of stats, too - the only numbers that matter are how much ammo you are carrying.

Personally, I think Doom is the best JRPG of all time.

>>7849391
>get rid of all of that pesky "exposition" and "character building", and focus straight on the action
They should make it like a video game? The horror.

>>7849396
Simple games resonate with simple people.

>>7849402
Like JRPGs with JRPG fans.

>>7849403
You just whined about how any game that doesn't start with immediate action is "boring" because you couldn't last longer than "20 minutes" (in a 50 hour game) playing anything that doesn't shove explosions and bright flashing colors in your face.

This means you are a simple person. It also means you're a friedbrain retard, but "simple" is the more polite descriptor.

>>7849414
That boring ass "game" is 50 fucking hours? Imagine how many better games you could play in that time.

>>7849416
Now you have argued yourself into a corner, and your pathetic ego won't let you back down even though you know you are wrong. It's sad. You're a sad person.

>>7849542
My argument is that the game is boring and that the first 20 minutes are not gameplay. You agree on the latter which explains the former.

>>7848803
>>7849389
Personally, I'd have liked a Saturn that was a superset of the Genesis hardware with a 68k-based CPU (probably with a support chip on the bus, like a DSP for matrix math and possibly sound synthesis) with a single VDP processor that expands upon the Genesis' with 4x bus width, higher clocks, and a triangle setup and framebuffer engine to compliment its original line buffer sprite engine.
If something like the 68030 or 020 weren't 100% compatible with the Genesis' 68k code, then I'd add it to a separate sound bus like the Saturn did.

>>7841794
>Technically Sega never declared bankruptcy, but only because Irimajiri personally injected half of his money into the company itself. If he hadn't have done that, they would have been forced to
I should add this would never happen with a Western company. If they went bankrupt the CEO wouldn't bail them out out of his own pocket, he'd just steal whatever he could and fuck off.

>>7849545
You said you literally could not make it through "20 minutes" of an RPG because you were "bored", which means you either

1.) Never played Grandia and are lying, or
2.) Read so slowly that you can't get through like three text boxes before gameplay starts in 20 minutes

Either way, you're a retard.

>>7849552
Wasn't he dying, or at least super old anyway? It was a pretty nice gesture, it's not like you can take the money with you.

You're right about western CEOs though, they'd run the company into the gorund, siphon out as much money as they can, then bail with a golden parachute to live off of until they found some other corporation to hire them so they can start the process anew.

>>7849554
The "gameplay" for the first 20 minutes is just walking around reading text boxes with dialog clearly written for children.

>>7848734
>Its called the gillette strategy. And no, nintendo does not believe in it.
Which actually saved their asses. The Wii's pitiful software attachment rate would have annihilated them had they not been selling the hardware at a profit.

>>7840993
>Sega of Japan was basically ran by people who had the mentality of teenagers
How's Nintendo any better when they've sued everyone and their dog and used to engage in illegal monopolistic business practice?

>nah let's not localize any of the Saturn's good games let's just crank out sports and fighting shit for 90s dudebros

Thanks, Captain Bernie.

>>7849220
That's actually not a good thing. If a game is selling 1:1 then it means your console has no range. It means people were treating the Saturn as a Virtua Fighter machine. Nintendo had a similar problem with the Wii when a huge number of owners were using it to play bowling and not much else. It's sounds counter intuitive but you actually don't want a single game to sell to ALL your userbase because it means you have a narrow scope of appeal. For comparison FFVII had about a 1:10 attachment rate on the PS1.

>>7840993
Maybe if Yuji Naka didn't act like a child throwing a tantrum when other people used his game engine without asking...

>>7849581
but that's every Nintendo console since the N64 when they became a Mario/Pokemon box

Hey fellas got a Saturn + ODE one month ago and I'm having a lot of fun!
Thank you for reading this message, have a blessed week :) .

>>7843594
>The system was designed only by Sega's Japanese division, and they only looked at the Japanese market. They thought having near-perfect arcade ports at home was the future of gaming and designed it around that. As it turns out (even in Japan) arcade perfect ports were not the future of gaming, increasingly complex and long 3D games were
So was the Mega Drive.

>>7849289
In 20 minutes of playing Chrono Trigger you could have already beaten the first boss and be approaching the second, having controlled four separate party members along the way. FFVII has you literally blowing something up in the first 20 minutes. Grandia starts slow even by RPG standards.

>>7849593
it was. the Mega Drive was a scaled-down System 16 arcade hardware. they thought that strategy would work again but the arcade hardware the Saturn was based on wasn't as easily scaled down.

>>7844468
>and fell ass backwards into good luck for about 4 or 5 years

Such luck as they had was also entirely due to Sega's North American and European divisions, not SOJ.

>>7849586
And it hurt the N64 to some extent, too. The difference is that the N64 had the benefit of having about 10 games that fell into that box rather than just one. If your customers are buying 6 or 7 games and you're selling the console itself at a profit then you're actually in pretty good shape.

>>7849582
what was he supposed to do? the Sonic X-Treme guys were totally incompetent and that project was doomed from the get-go.

Sonic X-Treme was like digging the foundation for the house and then realizing too late that the concrete won't fit into it when you try to pour it.

>>7849582
dude is overrated af. he didn't even create Sonic, he just had a tech demo that other people fleshed out into a game.

>>7849559
First you said it was a 20 minute cutscene, now you say it's walking around. Make up your mind, retard.

>>7849678
Actually I said "running around watching cutscenes".

>>7841778
>The problems with the Jaguar are that Atari had completely fucked their reputation and

It was more like "Wait, this company is run by the Tramiels? Yeah fuck that shit."

>>7849581
Your point is irrelevant. That retard said that no one cared about the home console port of Virtua fighter and used its sales numbers as support for his retarded argument, when in reality Japan wanted a home port of Virtua Fighter so much that literally every single person who bought a Saturn also bought Virtua Fighter.

This was his response to his earlier retarded comment here >>7843635

>>7849591
Nice, which ODE did you get?

I have a MODE and it's pretty great. More expensive than the others, but having SATA support is nice because I had an old 120GB SSD lying around anyway. Also, being able to backup the console's memory to a microSD card is pretty awesome.

>>7849601
> If I'm not blowing something up in the first 20 minutes the game is "boring"

ADHD. Look into it.

>>7849681
Goalpost moving at its finest. God you are retarded.

>>7849689
I'm moving goalposts by quoting exactly what I said originally without any modification?

>>7849690
You're being a friedbrain retard who can't comprehend why any piece of media that doesn't shove explosions in your face exists.

Fuck off back to r/fortnight already.

>>7849689
The point is that other RPGs started with much more gusto than Grandia.

>>7849705
I can't comprehend why someone would make a game with such poor pacing. I also can't comprehend why someone would defend it so hard.

>BOO HOO HOO WHY WOULDN'T BERNIE LOCALIZE WEEBSHIT THAT WOULD HAVE TOTALLY SAVED SEGA'S BACON
There, I gave you the summation of every one of these threads.

>>7849709
Just because a game doesn't shove explosions in your face immediately doesn't mean it has "poor pacing", you're just an ADHD addled retard. I'd bet you're tapping your leg as you're reading this, and you have 10+ tabs open right now.

>>7849714
You can continue to strawman me all you want, a game that features no gameplay for the first 20 minutes is poorly paced and I'm going to stop playing it when I know better games exist.

>>7849719
> No gameplay

I thought you said you were walking around talking to people? That's not 'gameplay' now? You realize that not every game is Doom, right? Other genres actually exist?

You
are
a
retard

>>7849752
>walking around talking to people
>gameplay
Are JRPGs the original walking simulators?

>>7849756
A significant portion of RPG gameplay is talking to people to advance the story. You'd know that if you ever played any of them (if your ADHD addled brain was capable of paying attention to anything for more than 20 minutes kek).

>>7849768
So the answer is yes.

>>7849771
No. Are you trolling right now or are you actually this retarded?

This is a serious question.

>>7849782
How are they not the original walking simulators if the majority of the gameplay is walking around "talking" to NPCs? Most JRPGs don't even have dialog options.

>>7849559
its meant to be a nostalgic rpg and starts off with a childish adventure. Didn't you realize that when they were equating pots and pans to shields and helmets?

>>7849787
the original walking simulators are games like monkey island

>>7849787
Answer the question, are you trolling, or are you a retard?

>>7849793
Adventure games are pretty boring too but at least they're more interactive.
>>7849794
Neither.

>>7849806
More like both

>$299
>developers given shit documentation (though Sony could be just as guilty)
>32X released less than a year prior
>lol surprise launch, retailers couldn't prepare adequately
>horrible US management butting heads with Japan

>>7849806
Grandia's got a lot of interactivity. Ever thought you just don't like the genre and need a different kind of stimulation?

>>7849860
Possibly

>>7839102
this is a really good point, i hope nobody on this board is too retarted to understand it

Grandia is one of the most boring, and childlike games every made with a brain numbingly easy difficulty level where the entire game unironically can be beaten by holding down X. It is literally designed to be babby's first RPG and it's intended audience on both a gameplay and writing level was clearly 5-14 year olds. There is absolutely nothing notable or unique about the game at all except it's battle system, which is wasted entirely as every unique aspect of it is rendered moot due to the fact the game provides 0 challenge whatsoever and there no reason to use any of the systems available in it.

>>7849220
retard

>>7849220
>Japan
>>7850815
I have a feeling he wasn't talking about your 3rd world shithole Jim Bob.

>>7839126
>we have this thread everyday
>/vr/

>>7850815
Try actually reading the posts you are replying to you fucking retard.