/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7811547
No, it was a personal attack against you.

That it made boatloads of cash for Nintendo was just a nice bonus.

>>7811547
I actually enjoyed the sailing in WW, and didn't find the Tingle map quest thing to be that cumbersome.

>>7811547
Probably the most overrated 3D Zelda. Really low on actual content and charm can only carry it so far. Totally falls apart in the second half. HD version looks like shit too.

>gamecube
>16:9
you sicken me deeply

>>7811654
>most overrated 3D Zelda
how can you say that when majoras mask exists

>>7811547
Sure, but granted not in a zoomerish key-jingling snap zoom kind of way

>>7811667
Majora's Mask is less overrated than Wind Waker.

>>7811547
Yes. And it is. Real men sail the high seas looking for adventure.

>>7811547
The problem with the sailing is that the sea is a flat sheet with no waves. It's the antithesis of what a sea look like even the """storms""" are a joke.

>>7811675
>looking for adventure.
Too bad you won't find it in wind waker, unless you love reefs and archipelagos

Wind Waker needed more of its islands to have an actual purpose and to have 2-3 more dungeons

>>7811675
>high seas
The flats seas in the case of WW are only sailed by children.

>>7811673
wrong

>>7811763
At least I feel like MM was actually finished before they released it

I still hate that the sea water is opaque, the style is almost perfect otherwise, specially the explosions.

>>7811673
Gotta disagree with you there. Majora’s Mask being supposedly dark and creepy is massively overblown.

>>7811892
Wind Waker being comfy and relaxing is massively overblown
Do you want to just go in circles here or what

>>7811979
Wind Waker fans didn’t make a mega cringey fake movie trailer though.

>>7811547
I found the game fun overall.

At the time, especially if you were roughly in the age of the target demographic, the sometimes shitty sailing mechanics really made the world feel more vast.

>>7811675
>sail the high seas looking for adventure
Wish I had a picture of how the boat literally blocks you and goes "IT'S TOO DANGEROUS OUT THERE!" when you reach the map edge.

>>7811547
After people complaining about the N64’s load distance, this was supposed to feel expansive.

>>7811547

>>7811547
It was, so they must have been fooling around and someone said it was entertaining to them. I don't think they would have thought so just from the concept honestly.

>>7811796
Water depth would have made the game tedius because you'd be trying to dive and spot shit all over. I'm glade they realized it needed to be an opaque plane, you've got enough to search around already.

>>7811547
I never played any of this cellshit Zelda games.

>>7812309
Water needed some shading and they could make it opaque as it goes deep, apply a gradient, do shadow rendering on the water waves, reflect the boat. It never felt like sea water to me.

They were trying to go for this.

But something like this would be better.

>>7812362
reflections would probably look retarded in a cel shaded game

>>7812394
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKSDts-tOaA
They did it better in this intro.

>>7812394
TP uses the same water effects as WW only difference is that they changed the opaque blue into a transparent layer.

>>7812410
The beta had transparent water. All they had to do was apply a gradient layer to make it more opaque.

I prefer Wind Waker’s style to the browns and grays of Twilight Princess.

>>7812485
I prefer Wind Waker's colors but hate its style.

>>7811982
Idgaf about the movie trailer. Majors mask is entertaining all the way through, windwaker isn't alentertaining at all.

The boat shit was all a colossal waste of time. WW would be an 8 hour game at most if they removed all the filler.

>>7812528
I wonder how small the world map is if you remove the water. I want to see a Wind Waker map that edits them all together like that, makes the Great Pangea Sea

>>7812528
>>7812547
sailing is so fun tho

>>7812586
it's fucking boring and I've played American Truck Sim for over 400 hours

I loved sailing, and the freedom given by the triforce search was comfy af

>>7812630
"Comfy" is just code word for "bad".

>>7811547
Mods delete this shit thread now

>>7812586
It'd be better if you weren't getting attacked and wasting time having to defend yourself all the time.

>>7812653
sad

>>7812586
It's absolutely dull and lifeless. Great concept, poor execution.

>>7811547
Unironically Baby's First Zelda.

>>7812417
it does not fit the style
a cartoonist wouldn't be able to draw transparent water

>>7812410
TP is not cel-shaded

>>7812741
They do transparent water all the time in animes

>>7812745
Anime aims for realism
WW aimed for the cartoonish look

I loved the sailing. It gave a great feeling of exploration. This is the best Zelda game they ever made.

>>7812848
Koizumi should’ve been given the reigns to the Zelda franchise instead of Aonuma but Miyamoto is a bitter, jealous faggot over the fact that Koizumi can direct Nintendo games with good gameplay AND stories.

>>7811757
I haven't played the game, please tell me that there's some sea monsters, please.

>>7813272
There's octoroks.

>>7813316
Are they huge?

>>7813319
Yeah, but they don't attack and are just timed "hit all the eyeballs" sequences.

>>7813325
I guess the eyes have it.

>>7812878
Koizumi is like the only person Miyamoto's trusts completely and wholeheartedly, where does this meme come from

>>7813395
Paper Mariofags got Sticker Star and have been calling for Miyamoto's head on a pike ever since.

>>7813395
I believe it mostly comes from Koizumi supposedly “sneaking” Rosalina’s story into the original Super Mario Galaxy against Miyamoto’s wishes.

>>7813272
Unironically yes

>>7811547
It was meant to be comfy. Zoomers with Kentucky Fried Attention Spans wouldn't understand.

>>7813610
>It was meant to be bad. Zoomers with Kentucky Fried Attention Spans wouldn't understand.

>>7812417
What's this from

>>7813815
WW has a bunch of debug rooms you can look it up on youtube or for the codes online and fuck around with an emulator

Wind Waker is shit.

>>7811667
majora's mask gets credit for taking risks imo. plus the time loop mechanic would be further refined in games like Dead Rising

>>7814124
You could argue Nintendo took a risk with WW's art style and direction
At the same time you could argue the industry was being fucking retarded and all Nintendo did was continue following their own path without being too concerned about doing what everyone wanted them to do

>>7811654
>HD version looks like shit too.
It doesn't if you actually play it and see it in motion. I didn't like the original but love the HD version.

>>7814297
>It doesn't if you actually play it and see it in motion.
Fuck off. Every fucking time. I'm tired of hearing this trash. I beat the HD version and it looks like shit to me, get over it you faggot.

>>7813402
I understand somewhat, Paper Mario has definitely been homogenized and watered down over the years, but the issues are more complicated then just one person

>>7813409
The issue is that this isn't actually how it happened, Koizumi did the Rosalina storybook at night yes, but after he was finished the first person he showed it to was Miyamoto. And obviously it was approved by him since it made it into the game.

Miyamoto pretty much let's Koizumi have free reign and they always bounce ideas off each other. The only thing of recent Miyamoto kind of objected to was the realistic humans in New Donk City, but obviously he let them do their thing anyway as the realistic humans were kept in the game

>>7814316
You sound like one of those irrational retards, who have only seen screenshots and can't accept that the game actually looks better than that IRL. I own the game, played it, completed it a few times and never had any issues with the visuals. Like I mentioned before, I enjoyed it way more than the original GC version.

>>7814124
A time limit isn't a time loop

>>7814316
>I POURED HOURS INTO IT AND DIDN'T ENJOY A SINGLE ONE OF THEM SO I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT OKAY ???

>>7814691
I mean, how else are you meant to form an opinion on something? Judging by his two posts I imagine he bought the game's HD version based on how people had praised it since it also touted having faster sailing (a big complaint about the original) and didn't wind up enjoying it. The graphics are something you're saddled with whether you like them or not.

I think WWHD looks fucking fantastic when you're playing it in person but I also see how someone would be offput by it. I agree with him that the game's latter half is pretty awful, too. That's not exactly a controversial statement.

You spent most of the game on the sea and alls you see if a flat shade of blue, only interesting thing is that ghost ship, the storm with the tornado and the big octo.

>>7814681
>You sound like one of those irrational retards, who have only seen screenshots and can't accept that the game actually looks better than that IRL.
I literally said I beat it you delusional retard.

>>7814796
desu I wish botw had stuff like the ghost ship or moon cycles or even minibosses that aren't telegraphed to hell and back

>>7814831
>I wish botw had stuff like the ghost ship
What? It does, the combat shrines.
>enter a thing
>fight some bad guys in a generic area
>get reward and leave
The ghost ship was trash.

>>7814838
You perfectly described the submarines in Wind Waker.

>>7814153
It’s funny because I’m pretty sure the N64 Zeldas were meant to have a stylized cartoon/anime look to them but the N64’s crude looking character models didn’t quite pull it off. Like, look at this thing. He’s clearly not meant to look like a realistic human.

>>7812359
>>7812362
This exactly. Wind Waker was clearly very Miyazaki inspired.

>>7814297
In motion the characters look like claymation figures. It completely goes against the original. Sorry m8 you wrong, you gonna lie more say the bloom isn't fucking sickening too?

>>7816170
Not him but I really liked the look of the HD version. And no anon, I don’t say hyperbolic things like I was “sickened” by the way a video game looks.

>>7816173
Dont reply to me. Your taste is shit.

>>7816196
Mmhmm.

>>7811547
Was your bait intended to be provocative?

>>7811574
fpbp

>>7811997
What, did you think you can just continue forever?

>>7811997
>>7816280
If I was Miyamoto, I would've decided then and there that Hyrule is not set on Earth but rather its some sort of mythological looking flat terrain suspended in the heavens. It would be a controversial move, but it would put to bed once and for all the idea that there is much to see outside of Hyrule (convenient for the developers who never want to answer that question), and in the context of Wind Waker allow you to literally sail to the edge of the world at your own peril.

>>7812707
Sounds like everything Zelda for the past 20 years

>>7816280
>>7816348
Easiest option would just be to make the message something like "There's no reason to go that way" rather than "no, it's too dangerous, now be a good child and fight the immortal sword wielding wizard that even the Gods couldn't destroy, [winky face]"

>>7811547
This plus Phantom Hourglass and Skyward Sword will remain the only Zeldas I refuse to ever play. They're just so distinctly heretic to what a Zelda should be in my eyes.

>>7816790
Why? Wind Waker follows the same basic structure as ALttP and OoT. Forest temple, fire temple, water temple and so forth. In fact, WW’s story is actually a direct sequel to OoT.

>>7816790
retard

>>7816790
Phantom Hourglass is pretty fun for a handheld Zelda game
Good work on skipping Skyward Sword though, you're not missing anything

>>7811547
Well it didn't entertain me.

>>7811574
kek

>>7811574
fpbp

>>7811984
this, especially since every square has an island and quest involved with it

>>7817035
>Phantom Hourglass is pretty fun for a handheld Zelda game
It's shit. So is Spirit Tracks.

>>7819403
Ironically I was 12 when OoT first came out in 1998 and 17 when WW came out in 2003. Wind Waker is by far my favorite 3D Zelda.

>>7819629
>3d
so not your favorite zelda ever? which one is then
WW is probably my goat zelda personally but I'm not a big zelda fan in general

>>7819702
I like to separate them I guess. My favorite “classic” game is Link’s Awakening. I guess I just love Zelda games that involve beaches and oceans.

>>7811547
The triforce piece hunt sure as shit wasn't

>>7819405
I don't like Spirit Tracks but Phantom Hourglass is good for what it is. If you have an autistic mental block against touch screen games then sure, you won't like it.

>>7819403
>every square has an island and quest involved with it
if only every square had an important, interesting or useful thing on it
wind waker is basically botw 1.0 except the world actually is fucking empty unlike botw

>>7819403
ah yes, the quest of go into the hole and kill 5 mobs for a chart to some rupees. Only a third of the islands have any real quality

>>7821445
If you directly compare Islands to Shrines, at least every Shrine tangibly gets you closer to a useful health or stamina upgrade. In Wind Waker, Islands can just have pretty much no reward on them besides Rupees.

>>7811760
I love the game to death, but the lack of dungeons really is the worst. Only four or five (Dragon's island, the Grove, Tower of the Gods, and the two with the companions) is absolutely not enough. Plus the one with the tree companion (don't remember the name) kind of blows.
I remember some anon on /vr/ saying that the game was rushed and so some stuff didn't make it. I would have loved a WW with more dungeons and better islands.

>>7821664
>alternate timeline where instead of getting to work on Twilight Princess, instead they made Majora Waker with more content and dungeons

>>7821664
Honestly Wind Waker’s shorter length and better story pacing is one of the reasons I like it so much. I know not many people share this opinion but I always felt that OoT drags a bit and overstays its welcome.

>>7821689
Wind Waker drags and overstays its welcome, that's what the entire Triforce Shard section of the game is.

>>7821691
The Triforce shard hunt is 100% filler in lieu of the devs not being able to finish the other dungeons as originally planned for the game, I won’t deny that. It’s an unfortunate slog when the game’s pacing otherwise matches the story quite well.

>>7821753
Yup, pretty much this. If they'd replaced the triforce hunt with dungeons, it'd be perfect. And you're right, the pacing/story beats do match up really well.

>>7821689
>but I always felt that OoT drags a bit and overstays its welcome.
how?

>>7821678
We would have got this too, if Zelda fans could stop being autistic edgelords for one second and give something new a go. But oh no, muh spaceworld beta. This is why we don't deserve good things.

>>7821691
>>7821753
>>7822067
plebs

>>7822209
We don't deserve good things. That's why Aonuma scrapped Spaceworld and made Wind Waker, setting us down the true Failure timeline.

>>7822209
>make the shit game that is wind waker
>fans complain
>make another shit game to rectify it
>fans continue to complain
>make yet another shit game because all the dev talent that was involved with the N64 Zeldas has vanished to the land of wind and ghosts

>>7822252
There are plenty of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess fans out there. It’s Skyward Sword that’s almost universally agreed upon as a misfire.

>>7822261
>universally agreed upon
By the lowest creatures on earth.

>>7822261
Stop with the revisionist history. People still hate Wind Waker. The same people who hated it upon reveal back then hate it now still, and more new people have begun to hate it far removed from its graphics debate. The game is just patronizing, unfinished and tedious. Only onionsboys on reddit love and praise Wind Wanker. It's a 50/50. No amount of shilling by Reggie or you will ever change that fact.

>>7811654
>>7811667
>>7811673
>>7811763
>>7811785
>>7811892
>>7811979
>>7811982
>>7812496
>>7814124
Majora's Mask is, objectively, a good game. Windwaker, just like Sunshine, is a rushed shortfall which repeatedly fails to be fun and almost relies on artificial difficulty, and is treated by many as if it's on par, or better, than Majora's Mask. Therefore, Windwaker is more overrated than Majora's Mask.

>>7822280
I’m not saying it’s all bad but SS is an absolute slog to get through overall and I have zero interest in ever replaying it. I’ve played through all the other 3D Zelda games at least twice.

>>7822286
>this whole post

>>7822293
I love OoT and Wind Waker but I just don’t care for Majora’s Mask, there I said it. The dungeons and bosses are mostly lackluster in my opinion and I never found the mask system very fun. The weird, creepy vibe doesn’t outweigh the tedious gameplay for me.

>>7822312
what outweighs WW's tedious gameplay for you?

>>7822317
Love the dungeons in that one and the story and supporting characters are wonderful. I also always loved the art style and felt it was very fitting for Zelda.

>>7822312
That's your opinion, I haven't any problem with that. But what's not to like about Stone Tower? I think it's one of the best, as well as Great Bay Temple.

>>7822280
By the time I realized I was going to seriously go through a third repetition of the same areas I was just so sick of the whole game and I decided I didn't want to play it ever again. Probably the only Zelda game I don't want to give a second chance.
Funny, I started off loving it and having a great time. It's truly a game that starts high and only gets worse and worse over time.

>>7822327
>Love the dungeons
why?
Wind Waker has the weakest dungeon of the 3D zeldas for me.
All of them have pretty lame atmosphere and none of them have complex puzzles or interesting layouts. They're all very simple. Sometimes insultingly so.

Majora's Mask's temples are all more complicated, have more interesting aesthetics (Great Bay and Stone Tower especially), and have some sort of overreaching puzzle or goal in their design work (ice pillar in Snowhead, water currents in Great Bay, flipping Stone Tower upside down.)

>>7822349
>weakest
just say worst

>>7822312
Stone Tower is the highlight of MM imo. I hate Great Bay though, especially hunting for fucking Zora eggs. What always bugged me about Majora is that I feel like the game makes a bad first impression. I never did and still don’t have the desire to play a Zelda game from the perspective of a deku scrub.

>>7822358
>just use a synonym of what your just said
ok?

>>7822364
It's not absolutely synonymous. "Weakest" is much weaker than "worst", it is much less powerful, much less exact. And also it is less clear what you mean by "weakest" than if you said "worst" to an outsider, not that that's really a problem. "Worst" is the right word in proper English. Not to mention that it's reddit, it started off being used by redditors who are afraid of saying such a strong word "worst", afraid that they'd come off too aggressive and get downvoted. It's a word for faggots, essentially.

>>7822381
lol take your meds

>>7822386
Calling me schizo doesn't refute what I said.

>>7822358
>>7822381
>>7822393
Maybe it's because I'm literally autistic but 'weakest' just hits different than 'worst' as a descriptor

>>7822398
How so? I too am autistic, yet I consider them, in your use, mostly synonymous.

>>7811547
This game came out at my peak edgy teenager phase and I was mad af we got this kiddy shit instead of the epic looking 2000 Link vs. Ganondorf trailer

>>7822393
It's irrelevant nitpicking of vernacular. You understood what was said, as will everyone else who read the post. Launching into a tirade about the word choice retarded and pedantic as hell.

This is unironically the best Zelda game for GameCube
Yes even with the shitty Majora emulation

>>7822410
It's wrong use of language, and as I explained it shows your own submissiveness and fear of aggravation, whether it be conscious or not. If you started using words like "soulless" or "cringe" I'd have said something as well.
>descriptor
The word is "adjective" or "modifier". You know that, you're trying to look smart.

>>7822419
this post is soulless cringe

>>7822419
Shut the fuck up. You’ve now made everyone hate you way more than anyone hates Wind Waker.

>>7822419
fuck off retard. go pretend to be an english major somewhere else.

>>7822417
This, sadly.

>>7822417
>>7822563
I subscribed to Nintendo Power for a year to get it. No regrets.

>>7822417
>>7822572
I was given a Gamecube and a decent stack of games with it being one of them. Given the kind of guy it was who gave me the Gamecube, I honestly don't think he played it at all, it must have come with his console as a pack in.
Anyway, first way I both owned and beat Ocarina and I got an appreciation for Zelda 1. Also genuinely convinced me to buy Wind Waker with the demo. Fucking based disc all around now that I think about it. It might have been the disc that made me a fan of Zelda.

>>7822594
It was such a Nintendo marketing thing too
>You can play ALL the Zelda games on your Gamecube now!*
>*provided you buy the Gameboy player

>>7813610
>Kentucky Fried Attention Spans
I'm stealing this.

>>7822594
Same here except it was the OoT bonus disc that came as a preorder bonus with Wind Waker.

>>7822639
You can't steal what I freely give to an anonymous forum.

>>7822417
It's funny to me that Nintendo would release an official product that had emulation that would just fucking crash, often

>>7821678
sigh... i had to look up that original picture to confirm whether "kino" was taken from "kinopio" somewhere in the original picture

>>7814456
>but after he was finished the first person he showed it to was Miyamoto. And obviously it was approved by him since it made it into the game.
Did Miyamoto really approve of it? Miyamoto has talked about not wanting characters' backstories to weigh down the bright and cheery feel of Mario games, but Rosalina's backstory arguably does just that. In any case, the idea that Koizumi used to sneak story into games behind Miyamoto's back seems to stem from interviews that Koizumi and Miyamoto gave with Chris Kohler in 2007 and 2009, respectively. From the Galaxy 2 interview with Miyamoto:
>"Mr. Koizumi is the type of person who, whenever we're working on a new Mario game, he always wants to bring more story elements into it, as he did with Super Mario Galaxy. But in talking with him this time, he agrees and feels that with Galaxy 2, there won't be a need for as deep of a story," Miyamoto said.

>But does he really agree with his boss, or has Koizumi just been overruled? In an interview with Wired.com in 2007, Koizumi said that he's been trying to sneak bits of story into Mario and Zelda games for his entire career at Nintendo, even as Miyamoto has been trying to keep them out.

>I told Miyamoto about what Koizumi had said, and he looked slightly taken aback.

>"He said that?"

>"Yes."

>"Well, I put a stop to that at the beginning, this time," he said, and for emphasis punched the air with his fist.

>>7822739
was it

>>7822795
sigh...

>>7811547
nice stretched hud, faggot

>>7822876
...

>>7811574
>boatloads
heh

>>7816147
The N64 Zeldas DO have a stylized look. You can clearly see that from the artwork.

If you hate Wind Waker and love Twilight Princess, you're part of the problem.

>>7823060
This.

>>7822448
I only have angry replies from two posts, so I'd say that most anons here probably agree with me, and probably also think that I'm very intelligent and make a good point.
>>7822457
>go pretend to be an english major somewhere else.
Says a lot about your own intelligence.

test

>>7826007
-icles

>>7822216
Even Nintendo realised what a fucking slog the triforce shard hunt is, that's what they changed it in the HD version. It would have been okay without the fee for Tingle, but even then I would have preferred more dungeons.

>>7827667
>It would have been okay without the fee for Tingle
It's sort of a tradeoff because without that Rupees basically serve no purpose in the game

>>7827667
the entire game needed to be fixed

Why does Wind Waker make zoomers seethe so hard?

>>7827719
It would be nice if nintendo could think of some sort of utility for an element that has been in the franchise from the very beginning beyond justifying one of the worst game play sequences to ever make it into one of their games

>>7829767
It's zoomers who defend this game. Now please take your stupid -oomer buzzwords somewhere else.

Anybody else think Link looks like a Powerpuff Girl in this game?

>>7811574
There's no reason to read the rest of this thread.

>>7829772
I feel like most currency systems aren't too well thought out though.

>>7816280
>>7816348
>>7816462
I would have had the map loop past the edge like pacman. say ganon put some spell on the great sea or something.

>>7822293
Majora's Mask was rushed too tho

>>7834653
Doesn't really show in the game itself besides having less dungeons and more of an emphasis on sidequests because of how implementing that stuff in a shorter amount of time would be easier. Wind Waker you can clearly tell isn't complete as you play it. Majora is pretty finely polished and feels like a full experience despite its relatively smaller scope.

>>7834653
Majora's was planned to be completed in a short timeframe and feels like a full experience since they scheduled with that in mind. All the reused assets really helped too.

Wind Waker was shoved out half-baked and anyone who has played the game could tell you there is obviously a gaping hole content-wise.

>>7811547
good god OP, please tell me you didn't actually play the game with that hideously stretched aspect ratio. Do you think circles are supposed to look like ovals? Are you completely blind?

>>7834891
That's just the UI elements, game itself renders fine.

nintendo rushing the shit out of super mario sunshine and wind waker is probably what allowed metroid prime to get a proper dev time.

the sailing isnt so bad itself, you could replace the ocean with field & the boat with epona & its pretty much the same, the ocean has some barrels & enemies & shit in between places so its got more going on than oot & tp's fields probably?. I think if you cut it down the distance between islands to half or even 3/4s it would be better.
the other issue is that the game is unfinished. just like sunshine, mario & zelda would have been great sequels if they had as many levels/dungeons as the N64 counterparts. I think the HD version was an excellent time to fix that.
Imagine if they ported phantom hourglass in as a second quest or a straight up expansion to the great sea? they have the touch screen on the WiiU making it worth doing. or just make separate HD remakes of WW, PH & ST on the disc, it would be worth buying even with no improvements then.

>>7811654
That'd be Twilight Princess. It's not just the worst Zelda, I'd rank it among my least favourite games of all time.

>>7811547
Way better than OoT. Kill yourself.

>>7830000
can I at least say that Salvatore is a boomer?

>>7834995
you might be rushed in the womb

You're just making an inflammatory remark to get reactions. WInd Waker is one of the best games ever and you're a faggot, OP.

needed more dungeons, needed more random events to happen in the sea, needed more islands with actual content; I would have been happy if it had just random NPCs that had something interesting to say or some random quest to do

OoT had that sense of finding random shit like in the graveyard and it's crazy that a game built around exploring the sea didn't have more moments like that

>>7822572
Nintendo Power was amazingly kino until 2007 and the Future selloff, anyway.

>>7837423
Cope and dilate, zoombabby.

>>7837457
Based Nintendo Power giving Captain N the credit it deserved.

>>7837464
>Captain N best
its just okay
>Pokemon & DKC last
shit taste

>>7834649
That could work too. Actually, that makes so much sense, I'm suprised they didn't think of it.