/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7797707
Yeah, I never found it too useful because it eats through handgun ammo so fast. I’d rather just use a maxed out Blacktail or Red9.

It was an upgrade to the pistol in RE2.
Leon & Matilda, get it?

>>7797707
I played around with it some, because it's got that cool 3rd burst, also I like the weapons in RE4 which you can aim from the shoulder, because they're just more accurate. You could kinda use it and go back and forth between it and the TMP, but it's not a particularly efficient way to use 9mm pistol cartridges, I like the Red 9 much better.


The low damage sorta makes sense. The real H&K VP70 has extra deep cut rifling grooves in the bore, which lets some of the building gas pressure blow past the bullet rather than accelerate it. The purpose of this is to have less pressure coming back, so they could use a lighter weight blowback slide, instead of making the gun heavier or adding some sort of delay mechanism or barrel recoil setup (like almost any other semi-automatic service pistol in the world).

The consequence is that it actually has noticeably much lower muzzle velocity than pistols chambered for the same 9mm Luger cartridge and with the same barrel length. It has cool futuristic looks, and actually a pretty good and easy to fill 18 round magazine which fits flush inside the grip (41 years later this is still impressive), but the pistol is straight up weaker to let it be simpler and cheaper, and that's together with a really nasty staplegun trigger that makes it difficult to shoot with good accuracy (or speed), and weird sights.
The stock with the burst mechanism is nifty, but it only works on the VP70M (military) models, and not the VP70Z (civilian) models, which lacks the mechanical parts to interact with it, and the slots to mount it. The trigger is still really awkward and difficult, and even with the 3rd bursts, it's tricky to put shots on target, much less keeping them there for rapid repeated bursts. The stock helps somewhat, but it's an uphill battle.

It's the kind of pistol you'd own because it's unusual and interesting, not because it's good.

>>7797730
This is the real reason it was included.

Don't overthink it, OP. They were just giving you extra content to fuck around with.

>>7797730
>>7798098

I know it's Leon's RE2 gun, and presumably his personal gun. All the more reason he shoudl have had it in RE4.

TMP and mine thrower make such a nice combo. Wish I had more mine thrower ammo though.

>>7797707
You'd never use it over the red 9 anyway.

>>7799583
This

So, Red 9, with or without the stock? I remember people from years ago insisting the stock wasn't worth it, but I don't agree at all, it makes it much easier to take shots at longer ranges.

>>7799623
I think they said the stock wasn't worth it cause it took up "too much space" which is bs imo.
Its worth it.

>>7799623
I don't use the stock on my pro runs, but mostly just because I only ever shoot it extremely close range and accuracy is never a problem.

>>7799583
>>7799614

>muh red 9

>>7799653
You're free to use worse guns if you want.

>>7799623

I believe the mechanics are that it makes aiming more stable, but it adds weight. Weight affects how fast the gun moves around and is a hidden stat that isn't shown. The matilda is a lighter gun thus it moves around faster.

>>7799658
Basically this, The only other hand gun i use besides the red 9 is sometimes the original one leon gets.
I think that one can shoot through like 4 zombies at a time and those shields. When fully upgraded.
Other than that specific gun. I only use the RED9

>>7799658
>>7799669

TMP, Matilda, Blacktail, all have much higher DPS. Not saying Red9 is a bad gun, but people are drawn to its "big number" and then stop thinking after that. it's a big slow handgun with the power of most early game shotguns, but it's slow to aim, and takes up a lot of inventory with the stock, which means it's a specific niche for pro players.

Blacktail is the jack of all trades master of none gun, and does good damage, fast to aim, small inventory, but doesn't do as much damage as the Red9. The exclusive boosts it a lot, but it's too late to take into consideration.

Matilda, is also, a niche gun with similar draw-backs, and 3-round burst fire. 7.5 damage per 3-round burst is nothing to laugh at though and you can breeze through the game with it easily.

TMP is a full-auto Matilda with its own ammo. It can do single pot shots or huge dps, it's quite versatile. But it needs a big stock.

Punisher is under-powered but penetration is nothing to laugh at. Breaking through shields and hitting multiple enemies means it has many of the roles of the shotgun. It is the most under rated weapon.

If anything, the only bad gun is the "Silver Ghost" (handgun). You get the exclusive way, way, too late for it to have any relevancy. Unless it has a secret headshot explode multiplier before that that I'm not aware of, I don't see there being any reason to have it.

Bonus is it is the cheapest to upgrade.

Conclusion: all have pros and cons and there's no best gun, just the one you like the most because it fits your playstyle.

>>7799627
Yeah, it's really small space. If anything, it should take up basically no added space, because the stock for the C96 Mauser is also its holster, thus you can keep the pistol inside of the stock. Hell, this goes for the Matilda (VP70M) as well.
Engine limitations, perhaps, or it was disregarded for the sake of balance.

>>7799653
Makes it easy to make every shot count, can be used at extended distances, steady aim also makes it so easy during panicked situations to make precise shots at things which aren't enemies. Doesn't have the largest capacity, but it has more than enough to matter.

>>7799659
I think it handles a little slower, yeah, but for being able to engage enemies before they get the chance to get up close at all, it's well worth it. I prefer the Riot Shotgun for when I'm being swarmed, it turns really fast.

>>7799706
>higher dps
All that matters in professional is damage per hit and ammo efficiency, and red 9 is king.

>>7799706
>Not saying Red9 is a bad gun, but people are drawn to its "big number" and then stop thinking after that
That's just part of it for me, the stock lets me use it as a CQB carbine, it's so easy to aim that way, it's the same reason I get the stock for the TMP, it makes the aiming far better.

>it's quite versatile
It really is, I end up using it for just all kinds of things, even just a short burst or single shot at a distance can be so valuable, and you often get TMP ammunition in groups of 30 and 50.

>But it needs a big stock.
I think the stocks for both guns are well worth the space.

>It is the most under rated weapon.
I actually get that impression from the Punisher pistol, and I kind of wonder just how it would handle and how satisfying the shield piercing would be (hell, once the hole is created in the shield, the bullet should continue through the guy behind it, right?) The exclusive with the super penetration seems like it would be OP in all of its own ways.

I'm way too attached to the Red 9 to actually give it a try, though.

>>7799739
Its worth it to give the punisher a try but its not as power.
Head shotting 4 -5 zombies to the ground is amazing.
Yeah its the punisher you get it for shooting the blue discs. Leon doesn't start with it.

Its really good desu in those crowded sections but don't really expect to be killing late game zombies with it.

Its more for knocking down/stunning 3-4 enemies at once. Then you can kick them in the face/knife them lol

Its a cool change of pace.

>>7799731

>muh big number

The game will literally throw handgun ammo at you if you're low. Handgun + knife is more efficient than just handgun anyways. You can clear the game with the matilda with hundreds of handgun rounds too.

>>7799739

Punisher fills the role of shotgun's crowd control, while Red9 takes the shotgun's damage. If you fire 2-3 shots into a crowd you will have stunned the entire crowd. For shields you go right through. On pro punisher is a lot of fun because it's unique but also not over powered.

>>7799834
>muh big number
Yes. Exactly. Again, if you want to use a weaker gun, that's entirely up to you.

>>7797730
>Leon & Matilda, get it?
The original NWF

>>7799834
ok but how was i supposed to know the game had adaptive ammo drops? it's only illogical to choose anything over the highest firepower for maximum efficiency

>>7800027

I've never seen anyone explain the drop logic in depth but it prioritizes handgun ammo above all else.

>>7797730

Why after all these years we are still talking about RE4 guns? Was the gunplay that good?

>>7800146
Its just that good of game desu

>>7800027
Also adaptive difficulty too love that

>>7800146

The guns are balanced and given enough identity that all of them are valid options. It's the reason Souls games have so much replayability because you can try out so many different weapons.

I have never done pro with mine thrower and a handgun with no shotgun. Just thinking of that makes me want to try it. You can think up several different weapon layouts and then try them out. They all play a little differently.

>>7800158

Pro-mode sets the adaptive difficulty to 10 (the highest) and never changes. One reason people like pro mode is because it's stable.

RE4 has a lot of midden mechanics. I can't find anything for specific ammo drops, but general item drop information.

I know people farm for rare ammo types.

https://residentevil.fandom.com/wiki/Walkthrough:Resident_Evil_4/Drops

>>7797707
Worst video game I've ever played.

>>7800478

>being such a weak fucking sister you can't see how great it is

>>7800146
It's a fun game, and the guns all vary, most have pros worth weighing against others in some way.

Upon release, the TMP was considered completely uselesss. People saw the low damage, and that you could spend the entire ammo in 30 seconds. Then someone had the idea: why not use it as a pistol? Suddenly, the best handgun in the game was found.

It is shockingly good.

>>7801404
>Upon release, the TMP was considered completely uselesss. People saw the low damage, and that you could spend the entire ammo in 30 seconds.
Were people really retarded back then?

>>7800478
I played RE Revelations...

>>7800146
Because RE4 has a gorillion guns and all of them are viable.

Never used the mine thrower, though.

>>7801407
Yes lol.

TMP is fucking great because it has versatility. Kneecap enemies when you can, full on auto spray in the rare occasion you need it.

Also shoutouts to the Riot Gun while we're here. That's the patrician shotgun for the RE4chad.

>>7801407

We're talking 2005 very quickly after release so few people understood the meta of the game. I remember people shit talking the TMP online. We also thought money was tight because we just played the game once and we missed most of the treasure. If you don't use a guide, you will find something new each time you play it. If you find all of it there's shockingly a lot so you're never low on cash.

>>7801418

Try it. It's a grenade launcher with a delayed explosion. Nade launchers are my fave RE weapons, and this is the closest to it.

>>7801427
The Riot Shotgun is so gud, fast turning and aiming, tight spread at a distance, great for shooting oncoming groups, or for blasting those pesky flying bugmen bastards out of the air.

>>7800146
>shoot guy in toe
>do spin kick
>stiffly turn to shoot next guy in toe
no idea why this shit fascinates people tbqdesu

>>7801435
>shoot faggot in the knee
>he drops down to grab it in pain
>suplex him
>his head fucking explodes against the pavement
How do you get tired of this?

>>7801435
It's a fun gameplay loop, that's why. Knocking down 3 enemies with one well placed roundhouse is satisfying as fuck, especially when you can line them up and knife multiple enemies as their downed.

>>7801441
>that SPLAT sound effect that plays as soon as his head hits the ground

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sound design is an underrated part of giving your attacks in video games that extra bit of oomph to be truly satisfying.

>>7801448

I like the implication that their heads are much softer and much more liquid because the plagas is the real brain at this point.

>>7801407
I consistently got shit on for saying that the TMP was a good weapon and I have been pleasantly surprised that people recently warmed up to it.

>>7800317
I only ever beat it on pro mode legit one time and basically got btfo constantly but i did infact beat the game.
Then the next run. I had enough money saved to buy the tommy gun right before the castle.
So i basically beat it once legit on hard,
Then next time with all my over powered weapons and the tommy gun lmao
Pro mode is alot alot easier with ashley in the armor and leon in the suit. idk if thats cheating but i beat it using that out fit also

>>7803385
"legit" would be a clean Pro start, but the game offers all of these options for you to have fun with it anyway.

>>7803398
>>7803385

Pro mode isn't too hard if you have mastered the system and know enemy attack patterns. You can bait attacks, know when to kick and then use your knife a lot.

>>7803371

The /v/ archives go back to 2015, and then everyone is praising the TMP. I think people have liked it since 2008 at least. I remember just upon release that everyone shit on the TMP, and likely because they never used it and just saw the stats in the merchant screen.

>that low damage?
>And i need to use the stock?
>what a fucking waste. what moron is gonna buy that?!

https://arch.b4k.co/v/search/text/TMP%20/order/asc/

>>7803413
Yeah after you beat it a couple times, its kinda easy to figure. Game is just so engrossing desu
>>7803398
So no ashley in the armor got it

Reminder that the merchant pricing and weapon damage as set out in the original Gamecube version is the best balancing. They made certain items cost less, like the Minethrower to entice people to use it, and boosted weapon power of a lot of weapons. Rifle got an 18-30 power boost. Blacktail and Red9 got final upgrade power boosts.

Matilda also had a full auto mode as well.

>this is what they took from you.

>>7798045
Thank you for the contribution, Anon. Very informative, I always wondered about it. Have you handled both versions?

>>7803371
>>7801407

Forum posts are hard to find back then, but you can find guides. None of the gamecube era gamefaqs guides recommends the TMP.

>I personally recommend that you just stick to the main four weapon types -Handgun, Shotgun, Rifle and Magnum. However if you fancy something different, there are also a few different weapons on offer. Three of these that's available through the first playthrough is the TMP, Minethrower and Rocket Launcher. The TMP isn't a bad choice, it's fun to use and is good for spraying
bullets at enemies, but there is little ammo and it's pretty weak. The Minethrower is a waste of cash, and you'll hardly need it, whereas the Rocket Launcher is only ideal if you want to finish a boss off quickly (you do find one in the game) - note that it can only be used once also.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gamecube/535840-resident-evil-4/faqs/49543

>>7801427
>Also shoutouts to the Riot Gun while we're here. That's the patrician shotgun for the RE4chad.

It's shockingly under-rated, and falls victim to the "big number" simplistic analysis a lot of people have. In terms of ammo and damage, it's the best. But it has a very wide spread, meaning you only get full damage up close, and you grasp it at the waist. The other two shotties in contrast, fire from the shoulder making headshots easy. And the riot gun has a tight spread, making critical headshots more likely.

>>7804045
>>7801432

The striker is the worse shotgun between the two in practice, but it has a fast firing speed and it gives you 100 free shotgun rounds. Meaning you can just spam shotgun blasts, which makes up for it.

Really, a mod where ammo is not replenished via upgrading ammo capacity would balance the game a lot.

>>7804048
The Striker is balanced by the 100 ammo mag, because as you said it's the worst performing out of all of them.

>>7804051

I am curious how much damage in practice at various distances you can achieve with all three shotguns. Remember, if the pellet misses it doesn't do the full damage, just partial. So you might fire a 12 damage shotgun, but do 4 in practice since 2/3 of the pellets missed.

The original shotgun doing umlimmited range is the most interesting exclusive upgrade, and I wonder how it handles because of that. It's got a pretty decent spread. Riot Gun in contrast is the best of both worlds middle ground gun for spread and damage, but also fast.

>>7804059
I pick my guns purely based on the reload animation. So I'll take the Riot Gun.

>>7804045

>Scope (Mine Thrower)
>Although Scopes are good for Rifles, this is lesser so for the MineThrower. What are you doing with this weapon anyway!?

The scope is amazing and lets you turn it into a grenade launching sniper rifle. You can do fun things like plant this in the middle of some enemies and it will take them all out before they're allerted. But sniping with it doesn't work well with the exclusive upgrade. It's the one that I recommend to not get.

>>7801418
Mine thrower is kino. I love using it on those semi-invisible cunts.

It's also severely underrated in RE3

>>7804225

I think some people tried to use it, and then got grabbed by the guy and exploded. You gotta be smart and strategic with it. Hitting a guy in the head, then kicking them into a crowd is a common strategy. Or tag and then run away. Or tag the ground around them, which doesn't alert them, then watch them all die.

>>7804243
It's also particularly useful for an area where those moths kidnap ashley. You can hit their nest with mine before they get triggered and calmly collect all the goodies they drop. Or any similar riot situation - particularly good for neutralizing those cunts that carry wooden shields, dudes with gatling guns etc.

>>7804247

I don't think I've ever seen a sniper rifle exploding dart weapon ever in any game ever. It feels like it should be a bonus weapon.

There are a LOT of Re4 mechanics that are not explained anywhere.

So Chainsaw guys have a damage cap, and I think they're the only enemies to have this. So if you hit most enemies or even most bosses with a gun that did 9999 damage, it would kill them in one shot. But if you do it to chainsaw guys you would probably need like 4 shots. I think this is so you can't kill them with just 1 grenade.

So in a test, it's the weapons with the highest DPS, not individual damage, that kills the chainsaw guys the fastest. That means TMP, Blacktail, Red9, Matilda.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9fLn2o-We-5tpS-qMVSKfcLMHtfmv-eg

>>7804818

Which brings us to the shotguns, which are actually better balanced than people give credit for. The test is aiming for generally the same spot and same distance from the enemies.

1. Striker

It does very little damage at a distance and doesn't even knock anyone over for a few shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF5SVRRS84E

2. Riot Run

Shots are much tighter, so it takes them out faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMJR-qg6eso

3. Shotgun

The real shock, it takes them out the fastest. The final exclusive upgrade for infinite distance has a big impact and brings it up to a very good gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMh5uwPCy8

If you have to use anything besides Leon's mercenary stock, you're a pussy. Simple ass

>>7803445
No, the VP70M is difficult to find in the US, H&K has at least one in their Grey Room collection in Virginia, and I'm sure there are some dealer samples out there, no idea if there were ever any fully transferable ones. Potentially a Type 07 SOT may have put in the gunsmithing work to convert a VP70Z that way (because some people go into that kind of business because they just really want to work with machine guns a lot, it lets them have access to and even own things which you normally can't), possibly sourcing relevant replacement parts from some demilled parts kit somewhere.
I do think I have seen someone modifying a VP70Z and attaching an airsoft VP70M stock onto it, it does nothing mechanically, but it would still be a stock (and holster).

I have seen a VP70M with the stock in the personal vault of a Swiss anon who have posted on /k/ in the past. I suspect that Switzerland has the most of those pistols in regular civilian hands, as there exist special licenses for serious collectors (it's quite permissive once you do get such a license, and more common automatic weapons like AKs tend to be less expensive than semi-autos, for various reasons). To my understanding, automatic weapons are just automatic weapons, no matter the registration date, if it was legally bought and sold between licensed persons it's all fine.

For the VP70Z, it's kinda like a midway between a Glock 17 and a Hi-Point C9;
>good magazine that holds a lot
>feels kind of alright to hold
>but trigger feels exactly like a staplegun, requiring you to exert like 18lbs of force with your trigger finger each time
>crossbolt safety is slightly awkward
>in spite of the deep cut rifling letting off pressure to allow for a lighter slide, the recoil impulse still feels slightly different somehow
>sights work, but they're weird, I also suspect they may be difficult to use in some lighting conditions
>not getting your money's worth out of expended gunpowder

>>7804048
>The striker is the worse shotgun between the two in practice
The overall high capacity is honestly a really strong point, aside from being able to score 100 free shells for it, you can also store multiple full stacks of shells in the gun, so you're likely to never have to use space in your inventory for shells for the most of your runs, along with a nicely short length.

>>7804123
I've never actually given the Mine Thrower much of a try, but maybe it's a lot better than I imagine. This thread has made me wanna do a run trying out some different stuff, giving the Punisher a go, for instance.

Don't think I wanna use the bolt-action sniper rifle though, it's WAY too slow for handling Regeneradors.

>>7804818
I never knew that, I would typically reach for my shotgun for Doc. It's fun how much depth and subtle shit there is hidden in this game.

>>7804881
>The final exclusive upgrade for infinite distance has a big impact and brings it up to a very good gun.
Interesting. I think I still much prefer the faster handling and turning with the Riot Shotgun.

>>7805970
The fire rate significantly increases with upgrades, and I find sometimes that it helps to exit the scope between shots so that you don't lose a sense of surroundings.

>>7803371
Anyone who wasn't a filthy casual and had played Mercenaries knew the TMP was a beast after they got 5 stars out of Hunk. I think people just didn't use TMP on first playthrough because it would encumbered their inventory and they'd need to account for ammo which was more scarce than handgun.

>>7806013
>>7806013

As I said, there's a lot of hidden RE4 statistics and mechanics that I've picked up over the years, but I don't know of any place that documents all of it. The chainsaw guys (and gals) are the only enemy I know of in the game with a damage cap.

I remember playing the cube version and being very confused for the first chainsaw guy wasnt' dying even though I three like 3 grenades at him. This is hundreds of points of damage, and way higher than his HP. and a broken butterfly will typically take like 4-5 shots to kill them, even though 4x50 = more damage than their HP.

Maxed Handcannon I think does infinite damage to avoid damage caps.

>>7807072
Isn't Hunk's TMP a unique gun variant from the one in the main game? Regardless people would have noticed what a damage dealer it was and draw that comparison.

>>7807752

It is a custom TMP with a different model and tweaked stats.

>>7804048
It's the best shotgun by far in pro. You start with 12 free shots, and if you run it dry before you upgrade the capacity, you get a combined total of 12+14+16+20+25+28+100 = 215 rounds.

>>7808270

Spamming bullets is the only good thing it has going for it. It's a poor shotgun otherwise.

>>7808452
It's the perfect shotgun for professional.

>>7808786
Aren't ammo drops permanently set to low percentage in Pro? That really doesn't seem like the difficulty where you want to blow through ammo casually.

>>7809462
By tactically leveling up ammo capacity, you get 215 free shells. That is an absolute ton of ammo, considering there aren't that many situations where you'd even use the shotgun vs knife + kick or single pistol headshots + kick chains. That also means that if you do use up the ammo, you can easily load all of the ammo you'll ever find, saving lots of space for things like grenades.

>>7808786
Tfw the only time i ever tried the Striker in RE4 was to use that glitch where Leon can run a shit load faster than normal and through shit he shouldn't be able to

>>7809538
The shotgun is supposed to be a workhorse weapon so saving the gun exclusively for ammo upgrades is bad economy. Not to mention that the shots aren't getting to get you very far since they have such poor range. With that said, you can make pretty much any weapon work on any difficulty.

>>7809912
Using it that way, I always end up with an entire inventory of ammo and grenades by the time I kill saddler on pro. So many, in fact, that I'm not even able to pick everything up. The efficiency is through the roof, and the red 9 deals with almost everything. The bolt action rifle is equally incredible for the same reason as the striker.

>>7803436
The PS2 version was so fucking inferior it's insane that it became the definitive one just because of that shitty Seperate Ways mode. Here we are 15 years later and the HD versions of the game still have embarrassing, trash looking cutscenes during that mode because the PS2 hardware was such garbage.

>>7797707
I think it's because using the Matilda can FUCK a player on a first run, especially an inexperienced player. Handgun ammo isn't meant for Matilda use.

>>7803436
I have no idea why they buffed the two handguns that didn't need buffing, every handgun had a niche. I do know why they nerfed the Semi-Auto rifle to literally 50% of its endgame firing speed and buffed the Rifle damage, and that's the only pair of changes I agree with.

The fact that they left the shotguns completely untouched in the rebalancing attempts makes no fucking sense to me, they're the worst-balanced type of weapon in the game and followed a design philosophy of strict upgrades with no real tradeoffs unlike every others. The best I can say for it is the Shotgun working at any range of its exclusive would have been cool if the gun weren't totally and brutally mogged at everything you actually select the Shotgun for.

Playing it for the first time.
Invested in the basic handgun because if there's one thing I knew about the game beforehand is that if you stick with it it becomes insane later on. Been using the Red 9 til I get there but I think investing in 2 guns of the same type was a waste of money. I also started investing into the basic shotgun and rifle as soon as the new ones appeared and those seemed better in most ways so now I have to stick with the old ones with how much money I've dumped. Oh and I bought a broken butterfly just before I found one for free.
So yeah, the /biz/ playthrough.
If I start NG+ or whatever on a higher difficulty do I keep my case with all my upgrades and/or yellow herb upgrades?

>>7804247
Little thing I discovered playing with the mine thrower. The darts explode on contact with moving surfaces like the mine cart and bulldozer, elevators, the dragon statues, and the robot's hands. It's fun as hell in those parts. I never upgrade the blast radius either so I can safely use it at relatively close range.

>>7810846
>If I start NG+ or whatever on a higher difficulty do I keep my case with all my upgrades and/or yellow herb upgrades?

yes. But NG+ is pretty boring.

>>7811114
I thought that I could go into professional in NG+. After some googling I found out that I just unlock it and I have to start a fresh save with it.
Is there some konami code you can use to unlock it immediately?

>>7811162

If it's on PC you can easily edit some files or download a save.

>>7811162

Pro mode sets the dynamic difficulty to max instead of alteriting it depending on player actions. It changes a few toher things too, like giving villagers infinite projectiles. Overall it is stable which is why people speed-run pro or play it.

>>7810846
The first handgun doesn't become insane, it gets a narrow niche eventually as a crit-fishing gun and only as its final upgrade, which will arrive after playing through most of the game with a bad gun. It then becomes an alright novelty, not statistically better or anything.

>>7804225
>>7804243
I wish you could get homing darts early on. The best places for the Mine Launcher seem to be in my NG+ fuck around playthroughs, like they do hilarious things in the castle's open areas. You fire up into the air above a hidden enemy's position and it veers down at them as soon as it detects the enemy, or around a corner. Stuff like that. It's harder in other areas to make use of hooking shots, and frustratingly you can't use that aspect of it to hook around the minigun platforms in the large sequence full of them near the end, the one time where a weapon with that capability should shine hardest.

>>7812371

For piratical purposes, the exclusive upgrades are not worth even discussing and I wish people woudl stop using them in discussions. It's literally only available on the Island which is 90% through the game so they hardly have any relevancy.

After playing through a meme run on Pro with a TMP as my handgun and a Punisher as my shotgun I would like to confirm everyone's doubts, that the Punisher still kind of fucking sucks as a crowds or shields weapon and you should never use one in place of a shotgun unless you literally have no shells left. Obviously the TMP did fine in its job.

>>7812583

That sounds insane but hilarious and wish there was some gameplay footage of that.

>>7812660
The thing that's frustrating about using Punisher for crowd control is that you usually have to line enemies up and then hit them with mostly body shots if you want to actually hit multiple enemies. It still seems better to just peck them in the face/shin like normal pistol usage and kick everyone, which doesn't use what's unique about the gun in the first place but is wider, knocks things down, saves tons more ammo and the shot itself did higher damage if you hit their head. Killing things with body shots is incredibly wasteful.

>>7812784

I don't think you're supposed to just throw tons of ammo into their guts.

I think this is how you're supposed to use it:

1. Hit 1-2 guys on the side. This stuns them and anyone behind them.
2. Hit someone in the knee or head. Chance of stunning those behind them.
3. Kick
4. Knife or shoot anyone down. Piled enemies hit both.

>>7810131
I thought the Wii version onward used gamecube texures?

>>7812371
Yeah I found that out, currently in 5-2.
It's still very dependent on rng, you might headshot a guy 5 times and nothing happens and other times you can one tap 3 guys in a row.
Also, irrelevant, but the basic shotgun final upgrade is borderline useless it barely changes anything.

>>7812796
The problem with this is that there's no use to step 1 at all. It amplifies the risk by waiting if anything.

>>7812796
Why not just shoot them in the head once with the red9 and kick?

>>7812970
Yeah the shotguns are the least niche-creating guns. Rifles and pistols and magnums have upsides and downsides to sticking to one particular model, getting generally better as you go but not overwhelmingly, but the shotguns just get completely shat on by the next one up each time. There's no value to firing the Shotgun at long range even if the damage remains at its peak (subpar) because it still loses all the good shotgun properties like object destruction, AOE and knockback at that distance - so you'd still be better using any other type of weapon. Maybe it'd be good for a hypothetical shotgun-only playthrough with no other guns.

As for the Handgun exclusive, one generally good point about critical hits is that they stop a plaga spawn if the crit was what killed them - even guaranteed spawns.

>>7813345
That's only true for upgrade specials maybe, because the striker really does not offer advantages that shotguns are typically used for such as crowd control and crowd damage. The striker trades broad area of affect within close range or effective mid-range damage for immediate damage on a single enemy at near close blank. You could say that the fire speed alone makes this worth it as it means that you'll never be caught at a bad timing but you're basically using more ammo to do the same thing.

>>7813374
Striker is both wider in its splash and higher damage to the primary targets than either. It has *much* higher firing speed than the two before and the highest capacity even before its exclusive. There isn't a valid use case to be made for firing ANY shotgun at the higher ranges that the others are supposedly better for, not even after getting the exclusive on Shotgun, because it loses knockback, object destruction and area at mid+long ranges and just becomes a super slow 8-damage gun. You should always be using a different weapon in that situation, no valid use case.

>>7814006
I think people get a mistaken idea that shotgun spread reduces the damage when they undervalue the striker. RE4 just cares about Primary Target and Those In The Spread Zone and that's it, you don't get to put all the damage into one point if you point-blank someone or anything, there aren't 50 hitscans fanning out from your blunderbuss, they're just taking either the primary damage or the spread damage at its current distance and that's it. Both damages then decrease after a certain range.

>>7812970
>Also, irrelevant, but the basic shotgun final upgrade is borderline useless it barely changes anything.

Watch videos of it in action. >>7804881
You won't notice any difference close range, but it makes it so that the damage doesn't drop off. It is the most interesting unique upgrade by far.

At that range, the shotgun actually dispatches the enemies the fastest, while the striker takes 3 shots to even stun them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMh5uwPCy8

>>7813334
>>7813332

You can just throw in one or two shots if you can, you don't have to. Headshots tend to miss people above them since you're aiming up, but if you aim for legs, you can hit 2 guys at once.

Punisher is a clear upgrade to the handgun, but it seems that it's bonus isn't worth it compared to other guns.

>rifles

Also go through things, and have a scope, and do more damage.

>shotguns

Do more stun to more enemies faster.

>red9-blacktail-tmp

Do more damage per shot and per second.

>Mine thrower or grenades

Way better crowd control.

>Magnums

Do more damage and go through enemies

>>7814383

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnWzbl4c4NA

>>7814289
>At that range
sure, but why use the shotgun at that range

Do you guys use the bolt action rifle?
Yeah I know damage but is there a situation where it matters?

>>7814460

Because the eclusive is infinite range. And the Riot gun's tight spread means it's pretty useful at long range too.

>>7814467
Why use it over other types of guns that is

>>7814518

Infinite range shotgun is the most interesting weapon in the game, although min-max logic other guns are better. With this you can have a gun that does more damage than the red9 but to a group at infinite distance. Overlal though, I'd prefer the Riot gun for it's tighter spread and headshots, or the striker for a dumb gun that just pumps out damage.

>>7814463
Outside of dealing double damage with the exclusive, it's 5 slots smaller which is nice.

It's a shame that NG+ doesn't give new health for the enemies.

>>7814463
I always keep one, it's really satisfying. Since the gigantic nerf to semi auto and Rifle's buff, it affects boss fights and sturdier enemies.

>>7797707
It wastes ammo, and isn't strong enough to take up that much space in the inventory.
I was disappointed.

>>7814561
>to a group
It fails at that, only the primary target has unreduced damage at distance.

>>7814463
I use it until I can get the semi-automatic rifle, but I do enjoy the bolt cycling and the stripper clips, just aesthetically.

>The plot of Re4 is engineered by the Merchant so that he can steal the riches of the Salazar family and offload some military hardware

>>7814463

1. It takes up less space
2. Bolt-action is just cooler
3. More power per shot. Low key magnum.

>>7814365
I just did a whole playthrough around trying to appreciate it so yeah, passthrough sometimes happens even aiming at sweetspots (I find it more common with headshots than knees since the angle is actually more severe aiming down there than slightly up) and especially on slopes, but it's not often enough to make it really worthwhile unfortunately.

>>7815170
Oy vey!

>>7814928
I really wish I could use it without a scope

>>7815707
I was just thinking that.

>>7815693
Read that in his voice.

>>7815707
To this day I really don't know what the separate scope item does. I guess it must zoom farther, but even the most unnecessary and far shots like shooting cultists on the clock tower's balcony before going near the area aren't hard with just a regular scope.

I just did dog maze the "normal" way for the first time yesterday and realized what everyone else has been talking about. From playing past RE games I had just been trained to run past dogs always because they're totally hopeless at hitting a running player in all but the most recent games, and that trivializes the area. The maze is laid out clearly on your map so my first run just involved more pausing to know where to check next, not less running. You go through every alcove for every item, and a straight run or a turning run is enough to make dogs constantly miss. They have an opening to get you when you perform a quick-turn but it's usually not enough of a window.

GCN didn't queue the dog spawns either like resmaster, so I guess that worked to my advantage. The Ada cutscene will despawn dogs, or you could fight the ones chasing you after getting out using the gate to limit their movement, but in Remaster doing either actually makes dogs waiting to spawn due to the enemy cap come running all the way out of the maze for you.

>>7798045

I didn't realise till I watched this video just how FAST the burst mode actually is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ6yy1g1jyk

>>7816152
You don't need the scope for the semi-automatic rifle either, IMO, you see more than far enough, may as well save that little bit of space for something else that's useful (like the stock for the Red 9, or some eggs).

What actual places are there where you'll have some actual benefit for the extra long zoom? Like maybe at that cableway ride?

>>7816267
It's NUTS. Given the timeframe, I hypothesize that the VP70M was inspired by the hyperburst concept of the G11 project, and potentially intended as a companion sidearm, the idea being of a REALLY fast burst letting off all the projectiles before the recoil impulse has a chance to affect the shooter's point of aim, thus increasing hit probability.

If this is the case, then the very heavy trigger of the pistol I think kind of defeats that concept a bit, even if you stage it a bit like a Glock or revolver, and even if you have the stock tight to your shoulder. I think the reason that hyperburst works at all for the G11 is that the entire action of the gun recoils inside of its body in one long stroke or all three shots, taking a lot of that recoil energy (along with the G11 being rifle which you can hold and support properly with multiple different points of contact), whereas the VP70's slide bottoms out with every single shot. Doesn't really provide a particularly great benefit in the end for the G11 even, hit probability only increased a moderately, when they had hoped to double it, if not more.

I think there's very good reason that armies and agencies around the world stuck with much more conventional sidearms and rifles, I wouldn't want to be a soldier and get issued a rifle where I couldn't hope to address anything at all with the action in the field, at least with an M16, AKM, FAL, or G3, you can open one of those up and take out the bolt and get a look inside and on the bolt group, replacing a firing pin or extractor takes maybe a few minutes, while for the G11 you would have no recourse but turning it in at your armory so the designated watchmakers can work on it, hope you're not days away from base.
Same for the VP70, I wouldn't expect a target pistol trigger or sights, but preferably something basic and workable to save me in a close encounter if I don't have my long gun on me. Very fascinating concepts though.

>>7804059
There are test videos of a guy shooting a Dr Salvador from pretty long range with all 3 shotguns and riot gun kills him with the least amount of shots, regular shotgun takes like 1 or 2 more and riot gun by far performs the worst.

If you were to mod the Matilda into the base game, where would be a good spot for it?

>>7817738
Probably fairly early on, so that you have a chance to get ok use out of it.

>>7817952

I think 3-1, the Castle. where you get the Blacktail. I think the 3-round burst makes up for its power.

I wonder how hard it would be to mod the PC release to re-balance the weapons. Like kicking the Red9 and Blacktail exclusives back to their vanilla versions (5.0 and 3.5 power instead of 6.5 and 4.5) and maybe upgrading the handgun and punisher to like 2.5 and 2.2 respectively.

>>7818118
Fuck powering the weapons down, just add more enemies to make up for it.

Actually, I would power down the Chicago Typwewriter, 10.0 damage per shot is kind of insanely high, lower that to at least 5.0 or 5.5, and then make it so instead of having fully infinite ammo, it needs to reload every 30rds (maybe make it so you can upgrade the capacity up to 50, to match the drum on Ada's version), you don't need to find ammo or anything, you'd have infinite reloads, but it can't fire indefinitely.
It'd still be a highly powerful weapon, letting you just walk over Regeneradors, and pretty imbalanced still, but it wouldn't make the game so easy that it's a joke.

>>7818118

Very easy since it's just moving a few stats around. I'd like to see someone return to gamecube numbers since other than the semi-auto, I prefer them.

>>7818335
It's less that the weapons are too powerful and more that it'd be awesome if the low tier weapons weren't overshadowed so heavily, since they do have unique features.
>>7818118
I'd also drastically change the chapter availability of early weapons' full upgrade paths and exclusives, since that's the only strength for some of them and they're lower-end, so getting to max them early should keep up better than their current status of being only like 1 upgrade ahead and underperforming at that.

>>7818536

What I would do:

>punisher available from first merchant
>mine thrower avaiable sooner rather than rocket launcher
>make blacktail available much earlier
>mostly keep the same upgrade timings
>Matilda avaialable 3-1
>magazine capacity upgrade doesn't replace ammo
>tone down magazine capacity upgrades to something realistic (eg TMP goes from 15 to 30).

Every weapon type but the magnums is solved which ironically is the choice that matters the least since they both do the same thing
Butterfly or Killer7?

>>7818880

It's just damage vs DPS. Revolver does more damage per shot, but fires slower and has a longer reload speed. Killer 7 fires faster but does less damage and is a simple magazine reload.

PRL just needs to be fucking removed, there's no NG+ progression like on the Gamecube where you have a desire to save up millions for CT or launcher, or put in the massive amount of effort to get the handcannon and fully upgrade it, if you ALSO just get the most bullshit possible thing for 0p for completing the game on the difficulty everyone normally plays. NG+ is fuck around time for sure but there's no goals to it anymore, and there genuinely used to be when this stupid fucking electric thing wasn't in the game.

>>7797707

With Leon's outfit, I do suspect they were gearing up for creating assets for an RE2 remake.

>>7819007

I think it's probably left-overs from their RE2 remake pitch that didn't go anywhere. They had the models and RPD outfit, so might as well use them right?

>>7818880
It's not always that simple because you have to account for timing of availability within the game. The Butterfly is free and the Killer7 is nowhere near available until late in the game, so it's a no brainer to pick up the butterfly and use it. You can use ammo upgrades to keep getting free ammo and use it until the Killer7 is available, and then sell it to get a hold of that. When people say the butterfly is more powerful, they're referring to the final special upgrade, which you don't get access until just before the final boss. In all other stats including damage, the Killer7 beats the Butterfly and basically is more powerful and effective for everything except using the special bonus on the final boss.

>>7799706
>DPS
>Full auto
Versus 90% of the enemies in the game you can just hit shit until it's stunned and kill

>>7797707
I wonder why no weapon was named the Stansfield. Missed opportunity.

Do you guys do the shooting galleries for extra money or do you consider it a kind of cheating?

>>7820609
NG+ weapons and the alt outfit where ashley has armor are both cheating. Pretty much everything else is fair game.

>>7821001

I believe the RPD outfit also has damage ruduction to it as well.

>>7798045
Not a spoiler retard

>>7821120
Shut up, faggot.

>>7821073
I think in the gamecube version it comes with the effects tactical vest for free but in re-releases they got rid of that.

>>7799706
>Conclusion: only get the superior TMP and sell the guns so the game won't even bother you with the red ammo that you don't need/want.
ftfy
>>7799623
Without. It's fucking easy to aim independently from what you choose, come on.
>>7799436
Use the Minethrower more. Don't have too many weapons. The game will most likely give you what you need if you trick it into it.
>>7804045
>Mine-thrower
>Hardly need it
that's why I know you're not a chad

>>7821863
>It's fucking easy to aim independently from what you choose, come on.
Stock makes it much easier at extended ranges. Also of course it's not hard to aim anything if you play on the bullshit easy Wii port.

>>7821941
I actually never played the Wii version, I did try it once, but funnily enough I thought it was too hard to aim with that. I only played Gamecube, PS2 and PC but my point subsists. You just need to account for the distance and aim accordingly

>>7821863

I think they boosted the Blacktail and Red9's damage in subsequent releases so it could compete against the TMP. At 1.8 damage, it is almost as good as the Pistol and Punisher, but also in a few rounds better than the blacktail and Red9.

5 rounds come out really fast so that's 9 damage.

>>7798045

Did the VP70 ever have a 100 round magazine combined with the stock or am I just dreaming?

>>7822026
I've never seen one. I remember that there was an extended magazine for a VP70 in the Gunsmith Cats OVAs, but that's the only place I've ever seen one.

H&K may have played around some with extended magazines, but probably not something like a large 100rd drum. I can't imagine a lot of practical applications for a pistol drum in any military context for the past century, to be really honest.

>>7822116

So 18 is the biggest their magazines could get then right?

>>7800346
midden heckanics

>>7822168
The biggest you could find, probably. Not that there's any physical reason you couldn't make larger ones, a lot of magazines have detachable baseplates (so you can get in there and clean it if it gets dirty), and there exist replacement extensions for various guns which adds like 2 or 3 rounds of capacity.
Then, of course, one could build their own 50rd drum, if they want to put in the effort to do that (not that it'll be trivial, magazine design is difficult).

>>7823092
>magazine design is difficult)
>Not just asking your bro working at Magpul to design, tool and whip up a drum mag on their lunch break.
NGMI.

>>7823580
I wish I had a designer pal at MagPul.

>>7821941
>the bullshit easy Wii port
Somehow it's objectively better but ruins the game at the same time. If only they had added an extra-hard mode.

>>7824953
RE4 is one of the few shooters where playing with a controller is preferable.

>>7825459
>>7824953

Because it's balanced around being on controller. I do think they should have added more difficulty, and added more health to enemies in NG+ to compensate for maxed out weapons.

>>7825459
While I know that every time I've played the game it's been with kb+m. I'd much rather have shit movement than having to readjust the stick back and forth to point where I want it to. It adds a layer between me and the controls that makes it very counter intuitive, like building a ship in a bottle.
I know the mouse makes aiming a bit too easy but imo skill in this game is proper spacing when dealing with the enemies not scoring headshot after headshot.

>>7826086
Aiming is half the game. It's why so much emphasis is placed on shot placement and why there is unique reactions to every body part being shot. It's why the game forces you to stop when aiming. You might be feeling like building a ship in a bottle because keyboard is a shit stand in for tank controls, which is intuitively designed for a controller.

>>7821863
Does pistol ammo even decrease if you have no pistol?

>>7820609
They're not cheating, it's just a normal money source that happens to take time and skill and pays off.

>>7824953
I find that the reticle is WAY steadier in Wii than should be allowed, especially when you can compare it to the PC remaster where the mouse is similar but still wobbles as much as it was supposed to. On Wii, just rest your hand against your knee or something and the cursor stays fixed. I don't even know if stocks do anything on Wii or if the game rendered them useless, I cannot notice their change.

If there's one really good reason to play Wii, it's that the waggle knife that auto-aims is slightly faster at turning, and any button prompt event that's been replaced with waggle is treated as 100% optimal presses with very lazy waggling (probably so you don't strain but it's still overtuned in your favor to a high degree), and additionally a fair number of prompts that would be random cannot be replaced with another button randomly in that version. Basically waggle makes the game LESS strenuous, unbelievable as that sounds.

>>7826546
It makes it less strenuous because the waggle and the IR aim take out half the game.

Does anyone else make sure they finish the game with the Old Key and Dynamite key items in their inventory or do I just have autism?

Just watched a guy playing and he one cycled Giantors with the mine thrower:

>TMP until they expose their plagas
>throw two mines
>then knife
>mines explode after the knife animation
>dead

Are meme runs like all-pistols fun? Do you allow grenades? Do the magnums count?

>>7826842
It's whatever you want as long as you think it is viable or fun. I could see a gunslinger run switching between the Re9, Punisher and Blacktail as being enjoyable.

>>7826842
I’m actually trying a TMP run because of this thread. I never used it in the slightest back on GC. I haven’t played this game in years so I figured I’d do something different this time around.

I’m just up to where I finally find ashley. Does the handgun ammo ever go away? The TMP ammo is starting to become more common but I’m getting tired of all the red boxes everywhere.

>>7826886
Handgun ammo will never go away. You can make it even more common by owning no non-handgun weapons but you can never reduce it below a default value.

>>7817559
>riot gun kills him with the least amount of shots
>riot gun by far performs the worst
This game must be deep.

>>7827253
Worst in what ways?

>>7826504
No I meant aiming with the controller is weird to me not walking with kb

>>7803436
I'm scared to buy the game on Switch because anon posted that thread about how they changed the ambient lighting on REmake and RE0, and I know that was the major downside of the PS2 version, and what's more I don't remember the Wii version except that it was significantly less frightening as opposed to the GCN version which actually was. That may have been because of the ability to preemptively aim in any direction though so nothing was ever a threat.

PS2 and Wii were a mistake for diametrically opposite reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INmN5tgF-C8

Been playing this game 16 years. Had no idea.

>>7827579
>Ring the church bell a total of 4 times (2 from behind the fence and two from in front of it) to summon a total of 11 additional ganados (3 & 2 from behind, 3 & 3 from in front).

What is the recommended platform to play RE4 on? I have the GC, PS2 and 360 versions of the game. I enjoy it, but have never made it past some room in the castle with cranks, I believe? Had to operate cranks while defending Ashley from non-stop enemies coming for her.

>>7828120
Basically anything, really, as long as it has proper gamepad controls. I've played it on PS2 and PS3, plays great on those. Will probably work just as well on PS4.

>>7828120

Current PC version is great.

>>7828260
I bought and tried it on PS2, but I had a hard time trying to tell the differences between items and the background. I would play it on the GC or Wii, but I'm too lazy to set mine up, and forgot where my GC controller is. Guess I'm down to Xbox 360. I felt like the turning and tank controllers were especially bad in that port though, but that might have been how it always played, since I have not played it in ages.

>>7827253
I meant striker

>>7828120
I just bought the switch port and it’s pretty decent. I had to adjust from the default control style because it changes aiming to the right stick. Probably easier for first time players that way but it threw me off super badly. Secondary control style is pretty much the same as the original.

>>7828674
Oh neat, had no idea it was on the Switch. I'll take a look for it on there, see if it might be worth another purchase of the game.

I had the GameCube version and played it a bunch. I tried but failed to do a professional run where you kill both Chainsaw guys with a fresh start. there's one right at the back of the village at the start, and another is summoned once you get inside the house. First gives you a ruby and the other gives straight cash.

I'm watching videos, and my mistake is that I was trying to use the handgun to headshot them and then running out of rounds. The first one they pop with a nade, then knife him to death. If he gets a crowd, pop him in the head and then kick the group. Then the second one they shotgun.

The biggest challenge is the time and kill limit. You have to kill both without triggering them.

>>7828762
Didn't it turn out that Doc Salvador had to be hit not for cumulative damage, but a number of separate hits? I think you have to just shoot him four times with any pistol.

>>7828890

Yeah, they have a damage cap. Even fully upgraded magnums will need like 4 hits to kill him. The grenade thus doesn't do as much damage as you'd think. It hits the cap (whatever it is, maybe 10 damage) but mostly useful for clearing out their friends. Then you knife, kick, and shoot them to death.

There's an official guide, in Japanese, which probably answers a lot of this but I can't read it.

Something I've always wondered: How much damage does the knife do exactly? It's 1.3 according to the guide.

>>7828890

No, the regular pistol will do 1.0 damage. It's DPS weapons that tear through him the fastest. You won't quite have enough handgun ammo if you run right for the first guy, so you usually use a grenade then the knife to stun, and then kick him, then slash him. It takes quite a few slashes.

second one, you have the shotgun so you have a lot more damage potential output.

>>7828943

Guide answers some questions I've had for 15 years like "how much damage does the grenades actually do?"

Incindiary = 6.6
Hand grenade = 16.6

I think the mine thrower does the same damage as a Hand grenade, and you only upgrade the range.

>>7828972

>>7828659
WHICH TIME

>>7828762
Honestly I've never run short on ammo on salvatore #1 even just shooting his head and I conserve the nade, although sometimes I spare an incendiary. Maybe the way I get there leaves me more stocked-up on bullets?

My play for the starting path is just to knife all ganados or spare 1 shot for a kick for the one grouping of 3 if positions are annoying. I still shoot all 5 birds. In that area enemies have low health, and are easy to feint into whiffing like everyone but are also in small groups or solo, which is free knifing.

Then the village proper I hook left from the lookout point, past the un-enterable barn and then get in the door on the building past it. You can be spotted on the way into here but it's rare if you just run here and they aren't going to come in faster than you pick up all the items and leave out the window anyway. There's guaranteed ammo here, 3 boxes and out the window is a red herb. Run past the lady if she's the only one who's spotted me because knifing her alerts others, then I head for sackface.