/vr/ - Retro Games

being able to do things in a slightly different order is a huge deal for Nincels who are used to being frogmarched through the entire game with unskippable tutorial screens

>>7799724
you can still do the gerudo training once you get epona/hookshot, do water temple before fire temple, and do spirit temple after getting lens of truth, just to name a few off the top of my head
its certainly not a feature of the game, and probably not 100% intentional, but its just another thing that makes the game feel bigger

>>7799724
My mother bumped my n64 and I was able to exist the starting area because of it. No glitch was performed dork boy.

>>7800358
you can do fire temple before forest as well

>>7800358
>>7800389
I know one of them you cant do after water temple, because that river segment with the whirpools requires the bow to shoot the eye

>>7800362
>My mother bumped my n64 and I was able to exist
Your dad is an n64?

>>7800459
you see anon, when a cartridge loves a console very much,

yeah you can do most of oot out of order without clips and glitches

>>7800626
you cant do anything but the deku tree first unless you clip past the forest child or navi drop, and the water temple requires the bow from forest

>>7800631
also, Bottom of the well requires a clip as well

>>7799724
Just randomize it bro

>>7800626
Visiting a temple, getting the key item, leaving and using said item to beat another temple doesnt count as "out of order". Its only you being retarded and taking double the time to finish the temples, since youll have to revisit some of them.

>>7799724
I tried to tell this to people about Metroid for years and got ugly-cried at every time.

>>7800429
Careful, there’s a turbo aut that will tell you that you don’t need to go in that room if you skip using a small key on the room that contains either the map or the compass.

Of course it’s such good open ended design that you have to beat the game enough times to memorize what room has what items and which ones can be skipped.

>>7799724
you would HATE playing an item/entrance randomizer then lol

>>7800634
how tf do you clip into botw?

use a chicken like a normal human bean
ffs

>>7801550
Metroid for the NES is somewhat linear, but not really. Super Metroid really does give the ability to break sequence, though-- with wall jumping, fast shinespark, and the Mochball. It's actually kind of unclear whether Fast Shinespark or Mochball are glitches, though. I think Mochball was intentional.

Except you dont need glitches to do them. You can beat fire temple without bow, you can beat forest after water or fire, yoy xan beat spirit first... tons of potential orders

>>7800429
yeah actually you can, you just need to use farore's wind to warp back to another room. please stop talking about things you dont understand.

>>7800358
sctually it is a feature of the game because the map screen and kaepora gaebora tell you to go to more than one place at a time.

>>7801679
You need bow for water temple, retard.

>>7801707
no you dont you fucking retard, everything that requires the bow is optional.

What a shit thread. The map screen tells you thay you have more than one objective at a time. When you first leave Kokiri itll tell you to go to Lon Lon or Hyrule Castle first. As an adult you'll be inatructed to go to any of the first three adult dungeons first, then it will tell you to go to either spirit or shadow. Not to mention you can do the mini dungeons at any time.

>>7801517
This. Doing OoT out of order involves doing 50% of a temple then leaving to do another one. It's a ridiculous way to suggest people to play the game and the developers obviously intended it to be linear. The only reason you can do some things 'out of order' is because they likely never even thought about the fact someone would leave mid-temple to start another one.

>>7801517
child is linear ill give you that
the first 3 adult dungeons can be done without any of the others respective key item
you need hookshot for all of them, but that just means you need to race dampe, which isnt a dungeon

water temple requires hookshot and iron boots, which just means you need to go to ice cavern.
fire temple requires hookshot, and goron tunic, which the little rolly guy just gives you, or you can buy it
forest temple requires only hookshot (since you get bow in the temple)
shadow and spirit temple order are completely interchangeable. youd need lens for either, but that just requires beating botw, which again isnt a dungeon, and also can be completed glitchless as soon as you get song of storms (so as soon as you beat child). you dont need hover boots to beat spirit glitchless, and you dont need mirror to beat shadow
spirit temple is the only temple i can think of that requires you to "go in, get a item, then come back later", and thats because it has a child and an adult half and is literally designed like that.
GTG is the only dungeon (other than trials i guess) that requires most of the items, and its totally optional, but can be started at any time after getting epona

maybe im not remembering things due to how many fucking randomizers ive played, but im fairly certain ive beaten fire, water, and forest all with nothing other than child items and a hookshot
so its not totally non-linear, but youre definitely just being a pedantic faggot. the game gives you a lot more freedom than even most modern games once you go adult

if you have to contrive ways to do shit out of order in a game in order to make it feel fresh you should probably just move on to a different game

sequence breakers are mentally ill

>>7801762
Explain how completing fire temple before forest requires completing 50% of forest first. Ill wait.

>>7801913
holy based

Sequence breaking was an intended part of the game. There are multiple things in the game that can only be seen if you sequence break. For example, ice arrows have a unique effect on Bongo Bongo but ice arrows can only be obtained before seeing Bongo by leaving the shadow temple early, completing gerudo training ground and then returning. There are other instances like this as well. The game's non-linearity was assumed until some autistic parasite on gamefaqs made a thrrad filled with false information and got people arguing about whether or not OoT was "supposed" to be linear.

>>7799724
Good thing nobody says that, you weird little creep. I bet you spend all day at work practicing arguments that will never happen in your head.

>>7801989
stop replying to your own thread

>>7801719
you cant hit this switch the the hookshot, it wont register as being closed

yes I know its the 3DS version, I cant find a pic of the n64

>>7801742
and to get to Bottom of the well, you have to navi drop or use the ISG on a cucco

>>7802062
you use farore's wind to go back to another room or just restart

The devs were very clear about what roadblocks were intentional and which ones werent: if they dont want you to go somewhere, a wall, boulder etc. is put there to stop you. Otherwise, the game allows (and encourages) you to go wherever you want. The side quest structure alone is entirely non-linear and interacting with anything aside from the main dungeons requires you to ignore Navi. To say the game is somehow non-linear or that its non-linear elements werent intentional is pure stupidity. From the very beginning of the game, you are told to acquire two items (sword and shield) in either order. Fundamentally, from the outset, the game does not railroad you. They even let you go into the Lost Woods from the beginning even though theres no major reason to go there when they could have easily blocked it off, but maybe they thought "hey the player might having a little breathing room so let's give them the option of leaving the village for fun". The fact people see this as such an absurd notion for developers to consider goes to show you how mundane and uncreative the average person is.

>>7801929
Nobody is going to respond to this because none of the retards in this thread have actually played the game and dont know the dungeon well enough to even have this argument

>>7802116
I read your entire post and still don't understand which side you were trying to support.

>>7802116
This guy's right, the game's actually pretty open-ended.

>>7801985
why do you think you need to enter the shadow temple to get the ice arrows?

>>7801985
The gerudo training grounds are accessible long before the shadow temple is though.
It's not really sequence breaking when it's an optional mini dungeon

>>7802089
Doesnt matter, its not the intended way to get through the room so this isnt valid in an argument about whether the non-linearity was intended or not.
Theres literally no point to be made about the game being non-linear.
In order to get all of a given dungeons key items, i.e., map, compass, boss key and new equipment item you NEED to at least have the equipment item of the previous dungeons up to that point.
Thus, they can only be completed in the order
>Deku Tree
>Dodongos Cavern
>Inside Jabu Jabus Belly
>Forest Temple
>Fire Temple
>Water Temple
>Shadow Temple
>Spirit Temple

>>7802289
no you dont you fucking retard, holy shit how can you be this pompous and gay when you dont even know anything about the game. telm me right now why you need the bow to beat fire temple so i can laugh at your entire shit opinion.

>>7802262
it's accessible... but you cant beat it until getting the hover boots from the shadow temple. that means the devs jntentionally thought "somebody might leave this dungeon, go get the ice arrows, come back, shoot bongo bongo and it will have a special effect on him". they put that into the game.

This game is non-linear by design and I will prove it.

The basic stipulation of every linearfag is that, "this game was designed to be linear and any non-linear elements result not from intentional features added to the game, but oversights on the part of the developers". This argument stands in stark contrast to every aspect of the game itself.

Dungeon order allows for a great degree of freedom. Aside from the child dungeons, you are allowed to complete any of the game's dungeons in any order, with only a few minor restrictions, without use of any glitches or sequence breaks. For example, many people believe the Fire Temple requires use of the bow; yet it is only needed for an eye switch used to get the dungeon map... which you can also get without the bow, again, without glitches. This is just one example of how many people "think" you need these items. In addition, at most points in the game, the map will have more than 1 glowing dot telling you where to go. When you become an adult for example, there will be 3 glowing dots instead of just 1 for the forest temple. Thus far, we've established that literally nothing in the game prevents you or discourages you from completing the dungeons out of order, aside from a few clear physical obstacles and Navi's suggestions. Except, even Navi is optional, since you have to ignore her whenever you feel like doing a sidequest you begin with. Clearly, nothing about this game's design would make you think "I am only supposed to play one way". Nothing. Not the map screen, not the design of the dungeons, not the NPC dialogue, nothing. Just one entirely optional sidekick that offers suggestions which you are forced to ignore if you want to explore half the game's content anyway.

>>7801550
In Metroid 1, it's not so much "Getting to places earlier" as it is more "Getting to places without shooting tons of doors and bombing unnecessary roadblocks"

>>7799778
fpbp

>>7802325
>fpbping yourself after 2 days of no responses to a first post
embarassing

>>7799778
Calling them nincels makes them sound like chads and you like an insecure tranny.

>>7802360
Any type of insult which is a pun of "incel" is a red flag.

>>7802089
There's a key you need to progress after shooting the eye, silly.

>>7802449
no there isnt. there are more keys in the dungeon than you need to complete the dungeon. you're embarassing yourself.

>>7802312
They probably added the effect to bongo before finalizing when you get the ice arrows anyways.

>>7802312
oh, you're right.

>>7802592
just like they conveniently forgot to change all of the other unique content you can only see by sequence breaking. maybe they just made a good game with a lot of replayability, is that so hard to believe?

>"game is linear"
>devs put in an item that lets you warp between dungeon rooms and even between dungeons
yeah okay retard

>>7800358
your mom said I felt bigger in her last night

>>7802550
>no there isnt
Someone hasn't played the game.

>>7802627
isnt volvagia weak to ice arrows too?
or is that just a rando thing?
ive definitely used ice arrows against her in randomizers, even though thats clearly impossible to do in a normal playthrough

i think they meant to initially put ice arrows in ice cavern, but then theyd need to build a whole new mini-dungeon to give you iron boots, and just said fuck it, and bumped ice arrows into GTG

>>7801762

It was very common back in the day for people to get stuck halfway through dungeons and go exploring the rest. Out of order completion was a normal thing

>>7802652
yeah, you. because you dont need that key. there are other keys you can get by simply skipping optional rooms.

>>7802678
>It was very common
No it really wasn't. People would finish one dungeon at a time in the order that Navi pushed them to and resorted to a guide if they couldn't figure it out.

>>7802714
Anon, the Water Temple doesn't have any optional rooms locked behind keys.

There's 5 keys, 5 doors and each locked door halts your progression one way or another.

You need a key to get into the central pillar, another to get into the escalator platform room and another ley for the statue room right after that's one room away from Dark Link to get the Longshot.

You need the Longshot to get to the locked door that leads to a Taktite Whirlpool Boulder room which leads you back around to that room where the boulders are being spit out, to get to a locked door with the Boss key.

>>7802737
oh yeah? i got filtered years ago in the shadow temple and still haven't beaten it.

>>7802765
>the water temple doesnt have any optional rooms locked behind keys
yes it does, you are wrong and retarded. literally google "water temple without bow" and there are multiple accounts of how it is accomplished without glitches and ive done it many times. there's one locked door at the bottom of the central tower that can be avoided and at least 1 more as well. you know nothing about this game.

>>7802842
yea i havent played vanilla oot in years, but i seem to remember there was at LEAST one extra key that you dont need in that temple
and i know ive beaten it in a rando with only hookshot as far as adult items go

>>7802842
Something like this?
https://youtu.be/m9mmuHgNhrI?t=151

I suppose you're right, but in terms of someone playing the game for the first time I don't think using an exploit (not the hookshot part, but jumping to the song plaque) counts. I consneed your point though.

>>7802892
a first timer wouldnt be expected to know where half of the game's items are let alone an obscure method for beating the dungeon. it's called replayability.

>>7802912
Nah, mate.
You're just making excuses at this point against the contrary. You are both right and wrong.

>>7802928
its pretty simple tho
child is linear
adult lets you go to forest, water and fire in any order
after that you can do either shadow or spirit

i dont really get how this is even an argument desu

>>7800362
That's the actual definition of a glitch; an irregularity in software caused by a hardware problem, such as physical interference. As opposed to a bug which is entirely the result of a problem in code.

>>7802928
yeah no, you've just demonstrated that you dont know a lot about this game and now you're making excuses for being a fucking poser. the game is provably non-linear and even if you want to bicker about water temple, there are plenty of undenianle examples like fire temple which requires no other temples to beat in any way shape or form. your shit logic has been trounced and youve already accepted defeat like the wrist-flicking cuckold you are.

>>7802940
adult lets you go to the water temple first, find out you need a bow, then a warp back once you finish the forest temple.

>>7802940
it's an argument because this game is so incredibly good and well-designed that haters have to nitpick the smallest details in effort to defame it.

>>7802945
you definitely dont need bow
theres a few torches you need to light and you can just use dins instead

>>7802940
That wasn't his argument retard.

>>7802957
Just because you can it doesnt mean its how the developers intended. In the room youre describing youre clearly meant to use the one lit torch to light up the other two with your bow.
This sums up the whole game. It was INTENDED to be played linearly, but you CAN do it out of order.

>>7802957
you need the bow to beat the water temple, tranny

>>7802982
>this dumbfuck still going after getting pooped on and admitting he was wrong
just give it up fag

>>7802984
nope, you just save keys as has already been established in this thread many times. next!

>>7802982
>>7802989
Next what? It isnt how the developers wanted you to do it, so it doesnt mean anything.

>>7802942
Don't know why you're getting so ass-blasted over me disagreeing with you, so fuckin' cool it, kid.
I know enough about the basics of the game after having played it for 2 decades, but not enough to know you can do exploits like that to get through a dungeon. Again, I don't think that counts in terms of what the devs intended for players to do and the basic knowledge the majority of non-autists have, yet at the same time it looks like you can get through the Water Temple without the Bow.

>>7802995
did the developers want you to play fire temple before forest? if not, why did they let you do it with no requirements at all?

>>7802996
if you've played this game for 2 decades and you dont know how to beat water temple without bow, you are not very intelligent nor do you know much about this game. never post again.

>>7799724
From what i remember as a kid, it's pretty obvious you can do the fire temple before the forest temple, and the spirit or shadow temple in either order. However it's also obvious that the intended order for the first three adult dungeons is forest > fire > water because this is also the order of the child dungeons, and because the bow has more utility than the hammer so it makes sense to get it first.
The rest of the stuff that people talk about in these threads seem unintended but a small segment of OoT players want to push. I don't know why exactly, but it has something to do with the type of people who speedrun and play randomizers.

But you know what, without any knowledge of the unusual methods, I might play OoT of time again for the first time in over a decade and try to do it in backwards order (Spirit > Shadow >Water > Fire > Forest) and see how far I get.

>>7803019
>if you've played this game for 2 decades and you dont know how to beat water temple without bow, you are not very intelligent nor do you know much about this game. never post again.

>>7802982
>Just because you can it doesnt mean its how the developers intended
if they didnt intend for it to work then they wouldnt have made those torches light from using dins. or more likely, put in a different puzzle that required the bow, or the hammer. theres plenty of examples of this in shadow and spirit, as they intended for you to do those two last.
they didnt tho, and since the water temple has at least one totally unnecessary key, it seems they purposefully left the option open so that the first 3 adult dungeons could be beaten differently on multiple playthroughs

they clearly expected gamers at the time to want to go explore, as that was the draw of the whole game, and most of the marketing behind it was based on that aspect.
they had navi, to guide newer and younger players for their first time, but knew kids would play it many times, so they made sure not to totally cockblock you from each successive dungeon like they did with alttp. more similar to how NES zelda was, where theres several different groups of dungeons that become accessible once you get some items

idk im not that other goy gettin all mad about it, but it always seemed like a pretty clear design choice from the devs to have dungeon progress be closer to the first game

>>7801601
Man, I should've read >>7801601 before responding to the tranny. Love is over.

>>7803036
you wont get far
cant get into shadow without nocturne, and that cutscene doesnt happen without fire water and forest medallions iirc
and while youll be able to get silver gauntlets in child spirit, but adult side requires basically every item outside of hover boots

>>7803021
Pretty much. Its clearly intended to be played linearly on your first time which is the type of gameplay the developers had in mind, and not some autists that would replay the game hundreds of times.
To rest my case heres a video of someone doing water temple without bow, and without all small keys, look at all the autistic shit he has to do. Things that were obviously not intended by the devs and so doesnt count for estimating linearity at all.
https://youtu.be/9dhCCnzHvAw

>>7803078
Iirc the kakariko fire cutscene triggers if you have beaten fire and water temple.
Of course, the pedestal of time can't be accessed again until the forest temple is beaten, so you can't access the well until then.

Also, now that I think about it, the well can be beaten any time after forest temple and the song of storms are obtained.

>>7803036
Spirit and Shadow can't be beaten before Forest because you need to be able to go back in time and beat the Child Link half of the Spirit Temple and The Bottom of the Well. Sheik will block you in the Temple of Time until you have the Forest Medallion.
You cannot start Shadow Temple until beating Fire Temple and Water Temple because the game checks for the Fire and Water Medallions in order to start the Kakariko Fire Cutscene.

>>7799724
there's a very big difference between mega man-esque "you can do most/all levels in any order from scratch" and "well if you dick around and collect stuff and leave areas unfinished you can access other areas"
the latter ain't bad but calling it truly open-ended is misleading and no one but autistic speedrunners even saw oot this way until "open world" became a buzzword

>>7801623
wait botw is on the oot cart???

>>7799778
i frogmarched your mom to the swallows and she didnt skip a single tutorial

>>7799724
and you must be 18 to post here

>>7803380
Always has been.

>>7802941
Was that Mario 64 tick tock clock space jump caused by a glitch or was it programmed in to the game?

>>7801618
Nobody mentioned your shitty romhack tranny

>>7802842
I'm convinced there is only one or two people in this thread arguing heavily that the game is non-linear making it sound like more people. Your writing style really sticks out

>>7803259
So without autism it sounds like the most unconventional path I'm going to get is fire, forest, spirit, water, shadow.

>>7802982
Don't know why I'm engaging this tard but as a kid I didn't know about shooting the torches. I used dins fire for several playthroughs

>>7803286
This is such a bizarre take. I've been on video game boards for decades and the only time this comes up is when some troll/moron tries to shit on the game for being "too linear". It's not like there's a bunch of people proclaiming oot to be like botw in it's openended-ness. You guys have created an oponent in an argument you forgot doesn't exist.

>>7804838
In other words, youre the retarded one. Iirc there are two pots in the room that always give you arrow drops. How many more clues do you need about how they wanted you to light the torches?

>>7804907
I was a little kid in an adventure game that encourages you to approach things in your own way. Just as the developers intended.

*blocks your path before deku tree*

I've never seen anyone say OOT was Open Ended. Ever.

>>7805440
>he doesnt throw his fishlady fiancee at random boils while trapped inside a giant whales digestive tract
wow dood
what are you stupid?

>>7805502
>boils
I thought it was that long droopy thing right before the throat

>>7805530
I think they're cysts.

>>7805928
Mashed potatoes, delicious.