/vr/ - Retro Games

I think it was Sonic 3D Party Island or whatever that isometric shit was called.

Sonic CD was the fucking bomb, mostly because it was different compared to the other 2D sonic games at the time.

Sonic CD was Sonic's peak, just look at the intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRaly9tk8v0

I didn't even grow up with Sonic CD, but that animation style is so nostalgic it gives me chills.

Sonic Adventure 2. Really, nostalgia aside, it introduced just about everything that was wrong with the franchise. Dark n edgy plot, dashpads everywhere, corridors, appealing to the furries, and grinding.

[spoilers]Colors finally pulled the series out of the shitter. Prove me wrong.[/spoiler]

I liked Sonic CD.

Most of the hate comes from the fact that

1) there's little nostalgia toward it, since few of us had a Sega CD when we were kids
2) it's slightly different from other Sonics in level design and concept (while still being a classic Sonic platformer)

Sonic Adventure 2. Really, nostalgia aside, it introduced just about everything that was wrong with the franchise. Dark n edgy plot, dashpads everywhere, corridors, appealing to the furries, and grinding.

Colors finally pulled the series out of the shitter. Prove me wrong.

>>777896

SA2 was the last great Sonic game until Generations. Colour was good but it wasn't the same caliber. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The real first game that was Sonic's downfall was Heroes

>>777889
Actually there's a very good reason people hate this game. Introduced pic related and so brought about the fanboy cancer that ruined Sonic forever.

>>777903
Yes but Sega didn't start openly embracing the furry cancer until SA2

>>777889
I can't even remember seeing a commercial for the Sega CD back then

>>777854
Tails. It was Tails.

>>777908
Wrong answer, man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCQRcinZYH8

>>777885
Afraid that has no bearing on the gameplay, bro.

>>777889
It's a totally sub-par and underwhelming experience. The bad 90's dance pop music that is nothing like the other games and nowhere near as memorable. The confusing stage design and future/past concept. The stages are entirely unoriginal and feel like half assed knock-offs of the stages from sonic 1.
How could you ever try to defend Wacky Workbench ?

>>777916
But all classic Sonics had 90s dance pop music, just not as blatantly obvious because it was chiptune.

Masato Nakamura was in a pop band, Dreams Come True. Michael Jackson speaks for himself.

>>777916
I hate the entire Sonic series but there is absolutely nothing wrong with Sonic CD's music you cretin.

>>777920
>But all classic Sonics had 90s dance pop music
No they did not
Not to the extent of CD, with it's repetitive drum loops and voice samples in lieu of any actual melody.

>>777935
You haven't played many Sega games, have you?

>>777916
>Sonic CD level design
>confusing

Maybe if you only played Sonic games your entire life.

The stages are kind of similar to Sonic 1, because the game began as a port of it, but they're still pretty different. For example, the only thing Quartz Quadrant has in common with Marble Zone is that they both have an underground theme.

>>777939
Fuck off shitposting namefag

>>777935
Yes they did.

And there are maybe 5 songs in CD total that use voice samples. You're full of shit.

>>777889
Sonic CD's levels seem to have no flow to me. It's like someone used debug mode and slapped a bunch of spikes and loops together. I won't criticize anyone for liking it, but it's just not my cup of tea.

it was Sonic Heroes that things started going downhill

which coincidently coincides with the same time Sega went third-party

>>777952
This is pretty much the exact reason why i cannot get into Sonic CD.

>>777952
>>777978
I don't really mind that the level design makes for slower but more cautious platforming, but what I don't understand is how it expects you to do all the Past/Future shit with that setup.

Can a CDfag explain this?

About 2 minutes into the first game I'd say

>>777876
3D blast is definitely the correct answer

>>777987
It honestly isn't even that difficult. The game gives you plenty of areas where you can gain enough speed to time warp. Sonic CD has a learning curve, unlike the other classic games. People immediately write off CD as having bad level design, but I can guarantee that the only people that say that shit are the same people that only played CD once or twice.

If you take the time to play the damn game, learn where stuff is, and how to speed around the levels, CD is easily the most satisfying Sonic game.

>>778008
3D Blast is a great game.

It's not a main series Sonic game, I don't know why everyone shits on it or holds it up to those same standards. It's like saying you hate Spinball or Shuffle because they aren't 2D classic platformers.

>>778000

>>777896
>Colors finally pulled the series out of the shitter. Prove me wrong.

ok: colors features horribly disjointed design that doesn't know if it wants 3D or 2D gameplay, so it has levels that implement both, however having one gameplay style go straight into another is incredibly jarring and makes the game play in an odd manner.

>>778021
>great
confirmed for negro of africa

you know sonic cd was gonna be sonic 2 right?

Sonic hasn't gone downhill. It's just had a bumpy road (with a few big potholes). Sonic 3 and S&K some can argue are just as good as Sonic CD, if not better. The Sonic Adventure games were both great, along with the Sonic Advance series and Sonic Rush series. Sonic Colors and Generations were both awesome too and Worlds looks like it's gunna be fuckawesome.

People need to quit with the sonic hate. Just because he's had a few bad games doesn't make them ALL bad.

>>777896
sonic adventure 2.
best sonic ever.
then generations, heroes, sonic 3, sonic cd, in that order

worst sonic game of all time: mario 64. what a piece of dogshit. dat clipping

>>778050
the problem is Sonic games used to be huge hitters, but Sonic Heroes and Shadow the hedgehog were functional but lame. Sonic 06 exasperated the problem and Sonic Unleashed was another weak attempt. Colors was good but not enough to restore the good times. Generations could have been great but still suffers from some gameplay problems, in addition to being too slim content-wise

this game has only 1 real flaw:

that fucking loud song effect that i have to hear everytime i press the jump button.

The special stage and level design are debatable

>>778090
Supposedly that's the "high quality" version of the normal jump sound.

Despite the fact that it sounds like shit and seems to be at a lower bitrate.

I WANT to like Knuckles Chaotix

but most of the time I can't figure out where the hell in a stage I'm supposed to go

>>778012
I recently played through sonic CD to completion, I have zero desire to go back to it for the purposes of achieving the good ending or whatever the fuck it is you get for doing all that back n forth through time shit.
The only memorable thing for me is Wack Workbench, and that's because it was so fucking bad. I cannot remember any stage names or themes apart from the obligatory first green stage. Whereas classic Sonic games have themed stages and concepts, CD just felt like a clusterfuck of Sonic 1 bits and pieces loosely thrown together with a CD track tacked on.
It was an outstandingly ordinary game that could of been released with any random protagonist other than sanic and you would have hardly know the difference. Except then it may have just faded into obscurity and done the justice it deserves.

>>778108
>I played a game on an emulator for the first time 20 years after its release and had a mediocre experience

Gee, imagine that.

>>778131
>can't counter my post or add anything constructive so I'll greentext an implication

top lel

>>778149

You have crap taste. How's that for a counter?

>>778149
Probably because your post is generic drivel every emulator player says when they play classic games. "I don't see what the big deal is this game seems pretty basic. I don't get what the hype is about. Just seems like <insert condescending remark comparing to other game here> but worse."

>>778154
Nowhere did I state that I was experiencing Sonic CD via emulator.
So in lieu of actually attempting a counter argument you just attack the medium through which you assumed I played it with.

gg guys

>>778102
I think it's a sine wave instead of a square wave. Not sure why they thought that was desirable.

>>778154
In reality, what does playing on the emulator have to do with Sonic CD's abysmal level design?

Do CRTs and real Sega CDs somewhow change the code?

>>777854
You take that back.

>>778171
Ah, that would make sense.
Yeah they probably thought a sine was smoother and fit better with the redbook audio over the very "chiptune"-sounding square.

>>778165
Except you did play it on an emulator. Don't try to deny it or make up a lie.

And if you don't understand why playing games over emulators deludes the experience or ability to appreciate a game then I feel sorry for you. You're trapped in bubble of despair.

I like Wacky Workbench. It has a cool open feel, the music is good, and the bouncy floor has never been a problem for me -- the game gives you ways of dealing with it. Metallic Madness is ass though.

>>778165
You didn't present a valid argument to begin with. You claimed that Sonic CD doesn't have themed stages, even though they do (and that wouldn't even be a flaw to begin with) then just generically bashed the game by saying it was "ordinary", which is really just another way of saying "I have no ability to appreciate classic games."

>>778173
Most people would consider Sonic CD's level designs to be stellar. Your lack of understanding of the game or the appreciation thereof is a personal problem, not a game problem.

As for playing on emulators, you don't get a sense of appreciation of the game itself, nor are you playing it in a format or view that the game was made to be played on. You're essentially just playing a poorly-formated, pixelated Flash game which you had no emotional investment in to begin with.

Sonic CD came out before Sonic 3, and that's the best game in the series.

>>778226
>>778197
>>778178
>autism

>>778149
To be fair, your post was a pretty generic complaint.

The only real concrete thing you stated was "it doesn't have themed stages" even though it obviously does. Palmtree Panic is tropical, Collision Chaos is pinball, Tidal Tempest is a watery ruin, Wacky Workbench and Metallic Madness are machine areas, and Stardust Speedway is a city. They all feel pretty focused to me.

>>778231
>doesn't know what autism is

>>778226
>Most people would consider Sonic CD's level designs to be stellar
The delusion is strong with this one.
The level design is the number 1 complaint people (who aren't blind nostalgia fanboys like yourself) have about the game.

>>778178
>>778226
>you can never appreciate any movie unless you see it in the cinema
>you cannot truly appreciate music unless you have heard it on vinyl
>etcetera

Fucking video game hipsters

Christ.

>>778281
Yeah, by idiots who think it's "confusing."

>>778226
Dude, seriously. "format it was intended for" is stupid since it was ported to PC, Gamecube, XBLA/PSN and goddamn cellphones

I got SonicCD when it was new. I saw it become a rarity and Holy Grail game in the days before emulators could do SegaCD. I was there and the game is NOT special. Its a bloated Sonic 1.5, not a height of the series. It's not BAD but it is hardly stellar.

>>778285
Not confusing, just a clusterfuck.

Like someone above said, it's like some guy just pasted a bunch of shit together in a level editor and called it a day. There is no flow whatsoever.

>>778295

Yeah. You can pick up speed in Sonic CD, but it's not easy to do so. Also, the special stages are a sin that should've been rectified by fire long ago

>>778308
Sonic CD isn't entirely focused on speed. There are sections where it's easy to pick up speed, and there are sections where it's not so easy to pick up speed because the idea behind those sections is good platforming.

Funnily enough, the special stages are all about getting speed, which you seem to hate, yet you criticize the game over not giving you speed? Odd.

>>778308
Dude stop. SonicCD's special stages were a blast. How can you not like them?

>>778320

If I rolled my eyes any harder at this post, my eyes would roll right out of their sockets.

>>778332
A+ response

>>778281
I have never heard this complaint before.

>>778292
Porting doesn't mean shit. They just did it to make money. Though at least with xbox or whatever you can play it on a real tv (though still via shitty emulation).

If you don't think the game is special, that's your opinion. Millions of people think differently. The game didn't even start to become revered until years later so the nostalgia goggles excuse doesn't hold up.

>>778308
>you can pick up speed in Sonic CD, but it's not easy to do so
Good thing it's not a racing game.

>>778343
Lol the new ports of SonicCD aren't emulated. Good to see you're so well informed in your opinion-making.
Moron

>>778343
>Porting doesn't mean shit. They just did it to make money.
As opposed to the original which they gave away for free right?

>>778343
>I have never heard this complaint before.
Then you quite clearly have never been involved in any Sonic CD discussion on the internet.

>>778343
Only the Gems version was emulated. All the other versions were either ported over or even remade from scratch up.

>>778361
You mean the ones where there's always one anti-establishment retard who plays the game briefly on an emulator than bursts in to proclaim how everyone is wrong and that the game is really bad and we're all just lying to ourselves?

>>778383

Shit, you really are delousional

Anecdotal, but I've seen way more people liking of Sonic CD's level design than disliking it. And considering how obscure it was at first I doubt nostalgia is at hand.

>>778383
>anti-establishment
Oh wow.
I don't even know how to respond.
It seems unfair to pick on the mentally-handicapped.

>>778406
>I don't even know how to respond.

Obviously.

>>778279
Except the thing about music is true

>>778389
It's still nostalgia. People spent so long pining for it that they feel stupid for admitting its anything less than a glorious masterpiece. People who actually CAN be nostalgic are the one who can see it for what it is.

>>778415
Dude...no
Not this board, man, not now

>>777916
>90s dance pop music
Play the US version. Please. The Japanese soundtrack is horrid.

>>778412
Right?
It's hard when the person you're responding to makes no sense in the slightest.

>>778416
That's...not how nostalgia works. Nostalgia would mean they've played it in their childhood.

>>778421
Jeff, my mountaintops have always been ready.

>>778415
>likes scratchy grainy noise
>likes having to manually tune speed
>likes lower dynamic range
>likes flipping sides

>>778428
The US one is even worse in most cases. It's that same generic ambient shit that 3D Blast on Saturn tried to pull.

Palmtree Panic and Tidal Tempest are probably the only exceptions.

>>778447
3d blast had an awesome soundtrack though.

>>778447
I honestly don't think so. US version sounds like VIDEO GAME MUSIC (what a concept!) while the Japanese version really tries to do the "oh wow, hip-hop/dance/techno is really cool right now, let's make it all sound like that!" thing.

I can't even play SCD with JP music on. It makes my ears bleed. But there's no accounting for taste, I suppose, if you like it, fine, whatever, enjoy being wrong (lel).

>>778447
I'd take trippy ethereal tune to goofy Jap club music. Even the best songs have annoying crap like "Hurr hurr hurr hurr huurr" or children cheering and shit

>>778428
You;ll get troll rated but I could hug you.
I feel like I'm alone in my dislike for the Jap/Eu music

>>778457
People only say the original music "fits better" because it's fast...which is stupid since SonicCD is the least fast Sonic game this side of Sonic Labyrinth

>>778454
It sure did. On Genesis.

>>778465
Or it fits better because, you know, it was created by the company that actually made the game.

Not that the US soundtrack is bad or anything, but the Japanese version blows it out the water. The visuals of the game have a very surrealistic, almost psychadelic feel to them, and the Japanese soundtrack reflects that with it's unique and "strange" music. The US soundtrack is more "normal" which doesn't mesh well with the game.

>>778457
At least the dance music fits with Sonic.

What other Sonic games before the modern era have had emotional ambient music? Voice samples aside, the JP soundtrack fits in line much, much better with the Genesis games.

>>778489
Exactly.

The US soundtrack is like "What if Brian Eno did the music for Sonic, except he lost all his talent watched too many indie films?"

>>778489
I have no idea how you could describe the japanese soundtrack as "strange and psychadelic." That's the exact opposite of what it is.

>>778495
. None of the Genesis games had anything that dance music. They had eclectic music that fit the theme of the level.

>>778457
What? The JP soundtrack actually does sound like video game music -- it sounds a lot like the music from the other Sonic games in fact. The US music for the most part sounds like stupid wankery.

SOME of the US tracks are good though, I'm not denying that.

>>778506
Generic dance music sounds like stupid wankery.
The US music actually fits the pace of the game.
It retarded to have this thumping club beat while plodding around in a maze

>>778510
Sonic 1 and 2 were crafted by a pop musician.

Sonic 3&K were crafted by the King of Pop and his team.

Sonic has always first and foremost had funky poppy dance music in its games. It wasn't even really until Adventure that it started to shift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIH9kEFJRgo

>>778518
Point to a single song other than Launch Base that comes close to dance music.

>>778498
Didn't call the soundtrack "psychedelic", I called it strange and unique, which it is. Video games didn't exactly use a lot of dance music and voice samples back then. Hell even today, there's not a lot of video games that use Sonic CD's brand of music.

>>778529
Ice Cap, Carnival Night Zone, and the credits all use elements straight from Michael Jackson's music.

>>778537
I didn't ask who wrote it. None of those songs are generic dance nonsense like the Jap SonicCD music is.

>>778529
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPYzgCI6Q1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SKcTZNeRnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcJTTbIJgx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtQtbWifobQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHwHiymSojk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDd_GlynA6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVEyGntyOZQ

>>778542
Provide some examples of what you consider "generic dance nonsense" in Sonic CD.

>>778542
They used elements from pop music, to be more precise.

Sure, Sonic CD's music is definitely more blatant about it than Sonic 1-3, but the point is that pop music isn't exactly unknown to Sonic. It's a sensible evolution. It's not like it suddenly shifted to orchestral music or rock music.

>>778564
are you serious? It almost entirely Detroit techno as interpreted through a Japanese guy a world away.
>>778553
>Video does not exist
My point exactly

>>778574
what's wrong with old school techno?

>>778490
Panic Puppet Zone really illustrates how shitty the Saturn soundtrack for 3D Blast was.

Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTbhN_Cti2g

Saturn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWHluhvS3D4

>>778572
Most Genesis Sonic music is either some non-genre specific thing that fits the level or flat out rock.

>>778574
>video does not exist
Best check your settings then.

>>778553
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcJTTbIJgx8
How is any of that dance? Wtf

>>778574
The only thing that sounds remotely like Detroit techno is Stardust Speedway, and it's one of the best tracks in the game.

>>778442
>likes better sound quality

>>778585
Panic Puppet is the ONLY fail song out of the Saturn OST.
Not a fan of how overtly Christmasy the Diamond Dust music was but it at least wasn't horrible

>>778587
"Dance" is a meaningless umbrella term.

All that shit is funky electronic beats. In reality NONE of it is dance, including all the Sonic CD JP music this guy is claiming it is.

>>778589
>best tracks in the game
>annoying vocal samples abound

>>778598
here we go
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_%28Vinyl%29

I wish I hadn't gone up those stairs. I should've stayed at the bottom and let some other poor bastard make the discovery. But how could I ignore that godawful noise? That low, dull wailing, fitfully punctuated with high-pitched screams of grief. I couldn't bear it, and so I climbed the stairs. The pictures on the wall told nothing out of the ordinary: your average domestic happily married bliss. But of course, these had all been taken years ago, back before Sonic had to go away. In the later pictures you could already see the dark and troubled expressions clouding his face. And then, after a point, there were no pictures. The most recent photo was dated nearly 3 years ago. Its frame was smashed and judging from the dent in the wall, it looked like somebody had thrown it with tremendous anger. It was the most recent picture of them. The last one taken before Sonic was taken to the hospital. As much as I tried to convince myself that this was just a normal domestic row, I knew in my heart that I... I wouldn't be ready for what lay behind that door. And then I saw him. crouched over her body, blood everywhere. Up his arms. On the bed. Splattered across the wall and flecked across his face. Her limbs jutted out at broken angles, and her face... oh christ, her face. If it hadn't been their house, I wouldn't have known it was her. And there he was, just bawling his eyes out, still clutching the bloodied bronze statue, his face beetroot-red with rage, grief and bloody frenzy. Trying his best to push her mangled face back into some semblance of order, trying to smooth out the creases in her dress with his fumbling fingers.

Jesus christ, Sonic. Two days. That's all you'd been out for. Two fucking days.

>>778608
It's better than any of your beloved elevator/lounge music, for sure.

>>778583
Flying Battery I'll grant you, but there's really very little rock in Sonic. Funk, R&B, pop, and even jazz are much bigger influences.

>>778603
No, without getting autistic about sub-genres the Jap/Eu music is dance music.

>>778615
whut

>>778614
The only one that comes close to that is Tidal Tempest and, would ya look at that, that FIT THE ZONE

>>778587
Are you kidding? Just listen to it. Shit, you even have a ton of people in the comments pointing out how similar it sounds to Michael Jackson music, you know, the guy who's called the king of pop?

>>778583
It's almost never rock.

Metropolis Zone is the only thing that comes to mind at the moment.

>>778621
Michael Jackson =/= dance music

sanic fans have been stupid forever lol. awesome games though even if cd is a little shitty

>>778628
Michael Jackson was the fucking face of dance music in his day. How underage are you?

>>778628
I

what the fuck

Thriller? Blood on the Dance Floor?

>>778638
>>778667
I guess he never made any other music than the dance hits huh? You fucking idiots.

>>778674
The other music he made has nothing to do with the fact that he DID IN FACT MAKE DANCE MUSIC.

Holy shit. I hope I'm being trolled. I really do.

>>778674
>dance hit

There you go. Michael Jackson's most known for his dance music. When people compare a song to Michael Jackson's music, they're usually implying that it sounds like dance music. We're not saying that literally all his songs are dance, but he's definitely strongly associated with it.

>>778683
The goddamn song for the end credits he used in a song that was in no way dance music. I say "which songs sound like dance music?"
You come back with "Michael Jackson did a few songs"
Ok? And? Yes? So fucking what? They don't sound like dance music even if goddamn Daft Punk did it STILL isn't dance. A person's NAME is not a genre of music!

>>778698
didn't you hear, Daft Punk just makes entirely mediocre funk records now

>>778698
>Dance-pop is dance-oriented pop music that originated in the early 1980s. Developing from post-disco and synthpop,[1] it is generally up-tempo music intended for clubs with the intention of being danceable but also suitable for contemporary hit radio. Dance-pop music is generally characterised by strong beats with easy, uncomplicated song structures[2] which are generally more similar to pop music than the more free-form dance genre, with an emphasis on melody as well as catchy tunes.[2] The genre, on the whole, tends to be producer-driven, despite some notable exceptions.[2]

>Dance-pop is a popular style and there are several artists and groups who perform in the genre. Notable ones include Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Usher, Jennifer Lopez, Celine Dion, Madonna, Kylie Minogue, Rick Astley, Mel & Kim, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Lady Gaga, George Michael, Bananarama, Spice Girls, Christina Aguilera, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Kesha and among others.
>Michael Jackson

Goddamn you need to shut the fuck up, you underaged retard.

>>778698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M5FR1LGsT7E#t=121s

>>778726
Explain how any of that refute what I said. It doesn't.
"Is this a dance song?"
"Michael Jackson wrote it"
"...ok but is it a dance song?"
"Michael Jackson wrote it"
That's you idiots. If that name only triggers THRILLER! in your head then YOU, my friend, are the underaged retard.

>>778698
A whole list was posted. >>778553

Stranger in Moscow isn't really dance, true, but Jam and Smooth Criminal definitely are.

Anyway, Michael Jackson and his crew being involved in the game is an argument Sonic music being dance-inspired. Why the hell would you call someone who was most famous for their dance music to compose for your game if you didn't want dance music influences in your game?

>>778736
I'm not the one who said MJ wrote it.
It's a dance song because it has the exact characteristics of Dance-pop (listed above). And as I said, it's an extremely broad term. Rick Astley and Britney Spears don't sound anything alike, yet they're considered the same "genre".

And for the record, Bad and Dangerous are two of my favorite albums, so don't tell me about Jackson's style.

Der jüdische Rasse ist eine Plage auf der Erde! Es wird niemals Frieden bis der letzte Jude vom Baum aufgehängt wird!

Es lebe die arische Rasse! Nieder mit den jüdischen Seuche!

>>778746
Because he had range. His music could be "dance" but it would structured in a more rock or pop style which is why everyone under the sun enjoyed his music.
The shit in SonicCD is just flat uninspired Japanese attempt at club shit that was already largely obsolete in the states

>>778763
He had range, but aside from the credits music, everything he wrote fits exactly into his pop parameter.

It's part of the reason why it's so easy to pick out which songs he composed for the game out of the huge list.

>>778749
Having "characteristics" doesn't mean a song is a club mix. That's what the Jap soundtrack sounds like most of the time, nonsensical vocal loops and all.

>>778773
"This song has a part sort of like Jam" isn't convincing. Picking those songs out is conjecture and the guy that wrote the songs with him only confirmed the end credits. Another guy that worked on it said most of MJ songs were replaced. "This one sounds like Smooth Criminal if you tint your head and squint" doesn't work either because MJ didn't recycle like that

>>778772
Then that's what you have to specify in your argument. Say "club mix", not "dance" which could mean fucking anything.

And again, you're seriously overemphasizing the voice samples.

>>778776
There's whole tracks that have jibber jabber all through them. And the fact that its some Jap dude trying to sound black makes them even worse

>>778784
But... it's an actual black dude.

>>778776
Its not a broad term if your practical and not trying to act like a /mu/therfucker

>>778778
Sort of like Jam? It's the exact beat, and the breakdown is nearly identical.

Then there's Knuckle's Theme and Miniboss which use In the Closet's exact beat.

Credits speaks for itself.

Act 2 of Hydrocity, even if it wasn't composed by him, was blatantly inspired by it. It fits it to a t.

>>778778
You're referring to the Buxer interview. He only says that he knows for sure that the end credits was kept, because he hasn't played the game. He didn't deny that other songs were used. The fact that those songs were removed in the PC Collection hints that Michael Jackson had involvement in those songs as well, or at least was similar enough to his music to be a problem. Why bother removing them if the similarities are that vague?

>>778802
This. It isn't a fucking coincidence that all the music removed in the PC version happens to sound just like MJ tracks in the Genesis version.

The shit Sonic CD gets has reached to ridiculous limits.

Sometimes I wonder how many of the people who hate the game for being "totally unplayable, level design sucks I can't even fast!" just hate on the game because of being resentful they never get to play it when they were kids, back when they actually cared about Sonic games.

Granted, it's not the greatest game of all time, but it's surely not shit either.

Sonic CD is not the beginning of sonic's downfall. Many of the things in Sonic CD were unique and fun, not to mention the great soundtrack (both of them). Let it also be known that Sonic 3 and S&K came out AFTER Sonic CD as well, and it is truly a great game.

The real beginning of Sonic's degradation can be found in Sonic Adventure. While SA is a great game that celebrates both Sonic gameplay and many of Sega's arcade genres (fishing, racing, puzzles, run and gun) it also had an unhealthy influence on the games that would follow, which attempted to emulate or I ineffectively expand on the aforementioned concepts. Thus resulting in SA2 and Sonic Heroes being underwhelming and, to some, fairly unbalanced and annoying.

Yet again OP and Sonic CD haters, Sonic CD is in no way at fault for the recent slew of shitty sonic games.

>>779250
>SA
>great game

It's a shitty 5th gen platformer.

I do not like sonic CD, and I will post this again and again:

Sonic CD is a good platformer, but a bad sonic game. It's awful when it comes to the traditional mechanics of Sonic, and instead goes for a slower paced exploration sort of gameplay. It's a decent game in its own right, but it does have plenty of design flaws(more than just not going fast).

I feel like Sonic CD wouldn't get much hate if it wasn't a Sonic Game. If it was it's own game with it's own characters, it would have generally positive reception. But it is a sonic game, and we expect the core design of sonic to not get changed too drastically like CD did. That makes the response a bit more negative.

>>779272
OH MAN WHAT KIND OF FAG WOULD ENJOY 5TH GEN PLATFORMERS ON THE RETRO GAMES BOARD.

Go fuck a bonfire

>>779272
Alright, very well. Do you at least agree with me that it is more responsible for the decline in Sonic games as opposed to non-sensically blaming Sonic CD

So the consensus is that while not being responsible for Sonic's decline Sonic CD was at best a mediocre platformer?

>>779281
You're making it sound like people hate Sonic CD. Most people love it.

When you say "we" you should just be saying "me"

I liked the game. But that was because I had only played SMW and went to my friend's house to play it.

>>779326

Nope, general consensus is that it is one of the best Sonic games, it has always been praised. It was praised when it came out in 1993, it was praised when the HD remake came out last year (or the year before, can't remember).
People who hate it are just too vocal about it, but they are a minority.

>>779356
>general consensus is that it is one of the best Sonic games
Nope

>>777946
Just ignore the legitimate question then.

>>778152
Pretty poor

>>779394
>legitimate question

>>778510
Pretty much every sonic level sounds like dance music.

>>778603
funky electronic beats is pretty much what dance music boils down to.

>>777854
Didn't start until Sonic Adventure.

Sonic 3 and Knuckles is still vastly superior to Sonic CD.

>>779378
>Citing one review
Seriously?
Sonic 3:
>Computer and Video Games: 94%
>Electronic Gaming Monthly: 9.5 / 10
>GameSpot: 8 / 10
>IGN: 9 / 10
>Datormagazin: 5/5 stars
>Sega-16: 10 / 10
>Mega: 90%
>Mean Machines: 94%
>allgame: 4.5/5 stars

Sonic CD:
>Electronic Gaming Monthly: 8.5/10
>GamePro: 5/5 stars
>GameSpot: 8.5/10
>IGN: 8.5/10
>Official Xbox Magazine: 9.0/10
>Destructoid: 9.0/10
>Sega-16: 10/10
>Sega Force Mega: 85%
>ViceoJuegos: 97/100

That's damn near even, and 3 is without a doubt one of the best in the series.

>>779416
I really hope that you don't actually trust any reviews from magazines that have an actual game producer in the title of it.

>>779416
I posted the most accurate review from an independent reviewer. The one that truly reflects in depth what the people in this thread who maintain that SCD is an ordinary game have said.

Sonic CD doesn't even come close to S1 or S2 and S3 is possibly the weakest game in the series next to CD.

sonic 2 > knuckles > 3 > 1 > CD >Chaotix > dogshit > all the 3D ones

>>779438
I think you should move "dogshit" up a tier.

>>779441
Chaotix was gimmicky but it was at least better than all the 3d fall off a ledge and play as big the cat/amy/rose whatever games.

>>779429
Of course not, but aggregated reviews can be compared in almost any case.

>>779432
I've never even played Sonic CD, because I wasn't rich enough to get a Sega CD, but citing a single review, no matter how in-depth, is clearly not sufficient when a large amount of people obviously hold Sonic CD in such a high regard.

And they're all great, but I played them as they came out, and Sonic 3 + Knuckles is the best out of the mainline Genesis games, with 2 at a close second.

>>779438
Sonic 2 = 1 > Knuckles > Spinball > 3 > CD > all the 3D ones

>>779442
I'm not debating that. I just saying, the dogshit has better gameplay than a spin-off with a counter-intuitive mechanic that undermines the whole point of the series.

>>779443
>I've never even played Sonic CD
This is a Sonic CD thread son.
Kindly leave

>>779445
I don't really see the point including spinball in there.

That's like ranking all the mario platformers then throwing dr mario and mario party in there for the hell of it.

>>779451
Spinball was still a better game than sanic CD

Sonic 2 was the first videogame I ever got and I have played all the genesis/CD ones a million times. I have beaten sonic 2 while on lsd, that's how well i know the game.

Cd is fucking garbage, I have beat it 4 or 5 times and gave it a fair shot but it just sucks ass. The past and future thing is a poorly implemented gimmick. The levels are so poorly thought out that you don't even have a chance to get going fast enough to time warp except in a few very specific spots. A lot of times you will ALMOST have enough room to do it then it will get fucked up at the last second. Wacky workbench is a fucking atrocity too. The music isn't any thing special and it's just not memorable at all compared to the other games. It's garbage.

>>779454

>>779454
Super Puzzle fighter 2 turbo was better than street fighter 4.

>>779448
Knuckles Chaotix was a good game. Stop being a miserable cunt.

>>779474
Just let him fucking dislike something.

>>778428
>>778457
>>778459
>>778461
>>778465
>>778517
>>778542
>>778608
>>778763
Get off the fucking internet, Spencer. Sweet merciful shit, just kill yourself. Make sure to record your death throes in QSound so SoA can replace some perfectly good Japanese soundtrack with it.

>>778096
Climb. Seriously, the levels are mostly vertical.

>>779471

I don't think anyone will argue that.

>>779536

Great, another bad post. They're both good soundtracks so there's not really anything to get all flustered over.

Damn game was 20 years ago.

>>779378

Uh-huh... and who is that? you?

>>779659
http://videogamecritic.com/

Of course, his one negative review cancels out the thousands of positive reviews out on the Internet.

Plus I think his copy might have been fucked or something. I've played Sonic CD across several different platforms and I've never experienced slowdown.

I didn't get the dance music feel until Sonic 3. Sonic 1 and 2's music just felt like raw originality for me. I haven't played CD though.

>>779772
Don't bother with Sonic CD, it's shit.

Franchises go down as soon as none of the original creators are involved anymore or when publishers start to meddle with them because they're popular and bound to make money.

Also fans.

Btw is it just me or are Sonic fans especially retarded?
They're almost as annoying as bronies.

>>779784
Anyone have a link to the video that .gif came from?

>>779770

He probably played either the PC version, or the Gems Collection version, both versions inferior to the original Sega CD release.
I can't remember much about the PC version (other than the loading times sucked worse than on Sega CD, it even had its own "Now Loading" screens!), but I do remember the Gems Collection feeling off in the controls, also felt slower, as if it was PAL. but I was playing the Japanese version (which is NTSC) on PS2. There are other problems on Gems Collection mainly some graphical glitches.

But no, Sonic CD doesn't have slowdowns.

Also, his complaints are easy to counter.
He says levels don't have their own "feel", and explicity names Wacky Workbench and Quartz Quadrant.

Why did he choose the 2 most original zones in the game to hate?
QQ has a quartz (duh) cave setting, with minery and shit going on, there's even that bigass Robotnik forte I think it was in round 2.
WW has the factory setting and the floor bounce mechanic. You either love it or hate it, no grey, but you can't say it's bad... if you got mad because you weren't paying attention and you got bumped to the ceiling 30 times instead of carefully using the bouncing floor to your adventage, then git gud. Also all WW rounds have shortcuts where you can breeze through, so if not going fast really annoys you, there's always these optional paths.
As for the future and past levels only changing in color... well, he wasn't paying any attention at all if he thought the sprites were all just recolored, they were all redesigned, same with the backgrounds. The structure doesn't change much (because that'd be overly confusing, I think) but it DOES change a bit.

All in all, I'm not saying he isn't on his right to dislike this game, but his complaints show that he never played the game focused, and only did it superficially, and with a negative mindset. The fact he probably played a poorly emulated version because he experienced slowdowns just adds to him not having liked it much.

>>779790
He says he played the Sega CD version, and he doesn't emulate things. He's a rabid game collector and purist so I'm inclined to believe him.

That being said, I do think his claims are pretty bunk.

>>779798

Hmm... then maybe he meant "slow-downs" as in "the game isn't fast enough"? hah, I don't know. Slowdowns are not something that happens on the game.
I agree with him on the bonus stages though, although I think they look pretty badass and better than Mario kart, it's hard to aim your jump and the UFOs move too fast. Once you figure out how to always get the time UFO, you can play slowly and complete it, but it's easy to fuck up and touch the water.
Back then, these stages looked impressive, though.

>>779790
It's been stated multiple times in this thread about the unoriginality of the stages. And just like multiple other sonictards you assume that the player was running an emulator and that somehow detracts from what an already boring, badly designed, obnoxiously coloured clusterfuck that the game really is.

>>779813
>anon makes a post explicitly refuting the reviewers points.
>yeah well a couple of other people in this thread has said the game sucked so YEAH!!!

That's not how arguing works.

>>779813

I can cope with folks saying "I don't like the level design because it forces the player to explore rather than go fast", but idiots like you insulting like a 8 year old "this game is shit, shitty levels shitty designs, SHIT SHIT SHIT", then sorry, I'm not going to take your criticism seriously, because it lacks any depth or reasoning, other than "it's shit".
Please leave /vr/, nobody wants your kind.

I thinkn Sonic CD is a great Sonic Game. yeah it introduced Amy but it introduced Metal Sonic who I thought was really cool when I first played it. The Japanese/PAL version actaully samples music from GrandWizzard Theodore and the Fantastic Freaks, De la Soul, 808 State, George Clinton, and Daryl Hall and Oates. I liked the Bonus Stage design. It was cool and the Secret D.A garden option.
tl;dr its a good game but would of been bettter without amy.

>>779770

I was reading his Tatsunoko vs. Capcom review, and saw this

>There's also a little girl with a broom and a bucket of water. It's not my dream roster, but I can roll with it.

Hah

>>779825
>>779828
>unoriginal stages
>boring
>badly designed
>obnoxiously coloured
>clusterfuck

I see reading and comprehension isn't your strong points.

>>779839
Metal Sonic already appeared in S&K.

>>779825
But he was addressing the refutation.

>>779851

>unoriginal stages
already stated why I don't think they are unoriginal.
Also forgot to mention, Quartz Quadrant has the the moving floor mechanic (by touching a switch, you can direct the course the floor is moving), which also adds to its uniqueness.

>boring
nice, very deep

>badly designed
because you don't like exploring? also as I said, there ARE different routes you can take on each level to GO FAST, go find them, I can assure you they are there, the level designers made those for people like you, how kind.

>obnoxiously coloured
I guess go play COD? nah, but really, this isn't a legit complaint either. Most people love the trademark Sonic CD psychedelic palette.

>clusterfuck

again, deep as fuck.

2/10

>>779438
>>779445
>sanic 2
>good


sonic 1>3&k>advance1>cd>advance2>2>chaotix>rush>rush adv'

>>779851
>>779860
That's not a refutation. He just repeated his opinions about the game without giving specific examples from the game itself. Pic related. He's in the middle. The anon he was responding to is at the top.

>>778021
because it is a main series sonic game

I think it's the best Sonic game. And this isn't nostalgia talking, I played it for the first time when it got ported to XBLA.

Honestly, take some time to learn what you're supposed to do, don't play it like a regular Sonic game and it'll click for you, it did for me.

>>779863
Oh look, you even have your own Sega CD reaction pics, what a sperglord.
>unoriginal
you cited two stages, two of many uninspired and boring stages that feel like mish mash leftovers from sonic 1.
>badly designed
Bits and pieces everywhere, dead ends, and in contrast shit that throws and bounces you around everywhere, consistently into dead ends or traps
>obnoxiously coloured
Oh the COD insult? How original.
>psychedelic palette
>trademark
What in the fuck are you on about? Sonic games where sensibly coloured to fit in with the theme of the stages, but CD has no clear themes so let's just paint everything in the brightest eye blistering colours to hide the fact that the stages suck balls

It is a clusterfuck of a game

Stop being like /v/.

>>779880

>Oh look, you even have your own Sega CD reaction pics, what a sperglord.

It's Metal sonic, not a "reaction image", and I think it's cool. If you think posting images on an image board is "wrong" or "for autists"... then what are you doing in one?

>you cited two stages, two of many uninspired and boring stages that feel like mish mash leftovers from sonic 1.

I cited the 2 stages that reviewer person said were the most boring and unoriginal.

>Bits and pieces everywhere

Good, I guess that's how platformer games are made of.

>dead ends

Dead ends are common in Sonic games. And I can't remember Sonic CD having more than any other Sonic game. I just think you got lost because the levels are broader and not just straightforward, and you like to complain because you suck at anything that isn't going straight.

>Oh the COD insult? How original.

Nice, you only took the part of my reply that wasn't even serious. Yet you started your reply insulting me for using an image. Splendid.

>but CD has no clear themes so let's just paint everything in the brightest eye blistering colours to hide the fact that the stages suck balls

PP is tropical, CC is pinball/neon-colored futuristic sort of place, TT is a water cave (okay, I admit this one is too similar to Labyrinth Zone, but done RIGHT), QQ is a quartz minery cave, WW is a factory, SS is a futuristic city with a big speedway, and MM is robotnik's metallic, robotic headquarters.
Which one did you not understand? Each stage is accordingly colores.
The palette is a lot more psychedelic than other Sonic games and it all adds to Sonic CD's own style too, if you don't like it that's fine,but it doesn't "sucks" or "is shit" because of it.

>It is a clusterfuck of a game

Can't you think of something else? "clusterfuck" isn't an objective criticism when you can't back it up with actual facts and observations other than "it's shit"

Also I don't mind replying to a troll, keeps the thread alive

sega

>>779798
Have you ever played it on the Sega CD? And I mean the real thing on legitimate hardware, not emulation. The slowdown is constant. It's really bad, especially in sprite-heavy levels like Collision Chaos. This was fixed in every version after, so the PC version, Gems Collection, they're all fine. Hell, even emulators like Gens and Kega Fusion take slowdown out of the equation (For the better, in my opinion).

I thought the same thing too until I finally got a real Sega CD. It's not unplayable, but it's still dampens the experience.

>>779770
Meant to reply to >>779790

>>779330
There are a lot of people on both sides. The changes and exploration appeal to some people but don't appeal to others.

>>777854
As someone who played sonic 1 2 and 3 a ton when the genesis first came out, I feel this game just isn't as good. I came back and played it recently and the physics and level design just don't feel like Sonic to me. The game feels very slow and clunky.

>>777854
Are you implying that this point was not the moment they thought of the game's main mechanic should be "memorize the locations of things that will kill you, run forward and win"?

>>780138
I feel like it's comparing melee to brawl.

>>780143
I wish that was the games' focus. Collecting emeralds is rarely fun.

>>777906
>Yes but Sega didn't start openly embracing the furry cancer until SA2
>2
What about SA?

>>777854
>implying Sonic CD was the beginning of the downward spiral into shit
>before Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the objective peak of the series, came out

>>779872
>any Sonic Advance being better than 1, 2, CD, or 3K

b8 pls

>>780198
but SA1 was good

>>780210
It was. But CD and 2 put it to shame.

>>777916
Quartz Quadrant and Wacky Workbench were original concepts, saying they weren't tropes in Sonic 1.

The people who hate Sonic Cd seem like the same kinds of people who hate Super Metroid and Dark Souls. Same general complaints

>it's too hard
>why doesn't it hold my hand
>I can't beat the game without needing to think

>>778178
Sure, because he couldn't of played the full remake. No he could never have done that, that's just retarded!

>>780221
I prefer it to CD to be honest. I might even prefer SA2 to CD, now that I think about it.

>>780235
It must be nice to insult people instead of answering their criticism. The level design was below 2 and 3&K. The time travel mechanic was useless because it meant you never needed to use them, ever,even to 100% the game, which meant they just wasted space that could be used for additional levels. The level design isn't even hard, at all. It's actually pretty easy once you get used to the spin dash and peel out (which is something I did like about the game). I don't consider it a bad game, but it's not as good as 2 or 3&K, at all.

It went down the shitter when the murricans decided "muh sanics" and were contracted to make Sonic games. The Genesis was only popular in the USA, which had some of the worst devs of the era.

Now you know why Sonic is Red White and Blue.

>>780283
He's actually red, white, blue, black and beige.

>>780264
You can either time travel or play the special stages to 100% the game, and I actually think that's a bonus. Multiple ways to achieve the same goal.

>>780283
But...Sonic 2006 was made by primarily Japanese developers.

CD is a love or hate it kind of game. It has a lot of redeeming values but the direction and stage design doesn't jive with everyone's preferred style of Sonic. CD continues off of Sonic 1's platforming intensive and exploratory design, where as Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 take more of the free flow direction.

I'm in the more open stretch and flow camp of the numbered Sonic sequels, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying CD or understanding why people would dislike it.

>>780306
>Sonic 2006 was made by primarily Japanese developers.
>primarily

There it is.

>>780264
Well I've answered the criticism many a time, and only just now realized the parallel between the people who complain about SCD with the people who complain about Super Metroid and Dark Souls.

Level design is most challenging out of the classic. The game allows you multiple ways of achieving the good ending, which encourages exploration, which the levels are designed around. The level design was MUCH LESS about holding right to win than 2 and 3K were, and thus engaged the player more.

And as someone above me pointed out, the time travel serves a lot of purposes. You can make use of it to achieve the good ending without needing to slog through the special stages. This adds another layer to the task at hand. You want to avoid the Future signs, and you want to seek out Past signs. You want to find a good part of the level to gain enough speed to time travel. If you lose your speed at the wrong time, you sacrifice that sign and have to find another one. Alternatively, you could just have fun and go through the different time periods. You get to see how the stages evolved based on whether or not you beat Eggman.

In short, CD adds a level of complexity to the core Sonic formula that only 3K rivaled.

>>780318
The people with the highest positions and the most creative control were Japanese.

>>780324
Comparing Sonic CD to Super Metroid and Dark Souls is idiotic. The level design isn't "challenging", just bland and uninspired. It's not a difficult game, it isn't even more difficult than 2 or 3K. You probably think Castlevania 2 was "challenging" too. Additionally, your argument in favor of the time travel mechanic is "because the special stages suck", which means the game has to rely on part of it being badly-made in order to justify its core concept. CD had good ideas, but none of them were executed well enough to give it the complexity you claim it has.

>any Sonic game being difficult

pls

Okay, I'll give you Sonic 2 on Game Gear, but that's because the screen is so small making just about every other jump a leap of faith

>>780346
You're clearly not understanding what I'm saying. The people who bitch about the level design hate it because its not all about GOTTA GO FAST hold right to win bullshit. That's literally the core of their gripes, and that's fucking retarded. The level design is at the very least more challenging than in 2 and 3K because it fights against you. Care to gvie examples of how it's bland and uninspired without resorting to "well I don't like it"?

No, "special stages suck" is not my argument. I didn't say the special stages suck. My argument was that it adds an additional layer of optional complexity. Go ahead, read it again. I'll still be here.

It's kind of amazing that there can possibly be a thread two hundred replies long about the "design" of these uninspired mascot games. More amazing that most of these are serious replies.

Level design is shit and inconsistent.

>>780553
>complaining about level design that isn't repetitive

>>780551
alright hipster

>>780571
Consistent =/= repetitive.

>Sonic CD
Oh wait, you mean Sonic 'More springs in the first 5 seconds than the entirety of Spring Yard Zone'.

SA2 was the beginning of the end.

>>780529
>The people who bitch about the level design hate it because its not all about GOTTA GO FAST hold right to win bullshit. That's literally the core of their gripes, and that's fucking retarded.
If that were true then they'd be bitching about the rest of the Genesis games.

>The level design is at the very least more challenging than in 2 and 3K because it fights against you.
Not, it doesn't, at least no more so than 2 and 3&K. If it does fight against you, it's in the "what the fuck could they be thinking designing it like this" way, not the "this is challenging and forces me to think" way. Yes, there's a difference.

I didn't know there were people that actually had a strong dislike for Sonic CD, but hey there's bound to be at least one of everything.

Not sure if i hate these opinions because they're lazily put together or because I like all the games BUT WE DEFINITELY COULD DO WITHOUT ALL OF THESE TERRIBLE POSTS. Seriously guys, you should know how to act on /vr/.

>>780358

Eggmanland was kind of a bitch the first go around.

QTE death traps didn't help.

>>780751

This is what I was trying to explain to these guys. Hating Sonic CD is not a general consesus.
A minority hates Sonic CD, "clusterfuck" and "bad level design" is comparable to Dark Souls' "artificial difficulty" buzzwords, yes, I agree with the anon who compared Sonic CD's detractors to Dark Souls detractors, even though Sonic CD isn't as punishing as DaS.

By the way, I'm one of the guys who have been defending Sonic CD along the thread, but my favorite Sonics are 2 and 3&K.

>>777896
I agree, SA2 is shit, it's a bad opinion to have when today's 17-22 year olds all had it on DC and GC. There were like 6 sonic levels, 6 shadow levels and the rest were unplayable, boring trash, the music is also embarrassing outside of nostalgia. It's like 57 year old rush wannabes or something it's really really gross

>>778021
My nigga, I had a blast with it.

The only bad sonic games are Sonic 06 and Sonic Unleashed, not counting spin offs.

>>780739
Are you tellin me that 2 and 3K are not more about holding right to win than CD?

And of course it forces you to think. In general, it requires more effort, thinking, and strategy to blaze through a CD level in the fastest time possible than it does a 2 or 3K level.

That's all I'm saying. There's a greater sense of accomplishment from successfully speed running CD.

>>780619
Then care to stop throwing buzzwords around and just explain what you mean?

>>780849
>the music is also embarrassing outside of nostalgia

no anon, you just hate music

SA2's soundtrack is one of the best things about the game

>>780870
Sonic Heroes was downright unplayable with the bad voice acting and the terrible camera that never lets you see a thing ahead of you.

I really don't see this "level design" thing you guys are talking about.

I have beat several 2D platformers, I had fun with every single 2D Sonic and I never noticed anything strange or the flaws that you guys call "level design".

>>780882
Not true, I remember playing it when it came out and I loved it, so it's far from unplayable.

Also, I think every Sonic game ever has bad voice acting.

>>780835
I don't hate Sonic CD, I just don't consider it as good as 2 and 3K. It feels sloppy and unpolished, and while it's still a good game, it feels like another half a year or year of work would have made it as good as 2 and 3K. As a whole, it's a bit of a letdown compared to those.

>>780874
>Are you tellin me that 2 and 3K are not more about holding right to win than CD?
If you actually think they are, you have never played them. "Hold right to win" is more of a buzzword than what >>780835 mentioned.

You're all remembering the Sonic Heroes song "We Can"

What the fuck Senoue?

>>780886
colors and generations ones are least-worse, and SA1,2 are also good, but acting itself is just bad

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't like Sonic at all. I think even the old games are pretty mediocre. There are no good Sonic games.
Is it because I haven't played Sonic when I was a kid?

>>780980

Probably, 99% of the time, taste in videogames is directly connected to what you have played as a kid.
That said, Sonic games aren't mediocre, when you compare them to most other platformers, they are some of the best, and also unique in its physics. I'm talking about the 16 bit games though, haven't played much of the 3D games.

>>781094
>Probably, 99% of the time, taste in videogames is directly connected to what you have played as a kid

That's a subjective opinion however. I can name any number of games I played as a kid which were mediocre to outright bad.

>>780980
I didnt have any segas consoles as kid, not until I got internet and found-out emulators and stuff, back in 2003 I think, and compared to other platformes at time, they are good games to be honest.

>>781118

That's why I said 99% of the time.
Also, the fact you like certain games you didn't play as a kid is still connected to what kind of games you played as a kid.

I mean, of course it's still subjective, because taste in videogames IS subjective as fuck.

>>781142
>>781118
>>781094
99% is too high. I'd say maybe 50%. Your childhood experience does certainly factor somewhat, but maybe not quite to that extreme level.

>>781235
>>781142
He means that: Once a PC gamer, always a PC gamer, once a console gamer, always a console gamer

>>781240
>Once a PC gamer, always a PC gamer, once a console gamer, always a console gamer

Nah, there's lot of people that don't limit their taste to one method. I play everything on everything and there's nothing wrong with that. Is doesn't make anyone better than anyone else though, let me make that clear.

>>781240
>implying that most people aren't idorts and that the whole PC GAMUR VS CONSOLE GAMUR shit isn't something manufactured by idiot fanboys

>>780924
I've beaten them all. I know it's a buzzword, but it's true to a certain extent. There's less challenging platforming moments equitably spread throughout 2 and 3K than in CD, if that makes any sense.

>>781240
Far from the truth. I've been a console gamer for most of my life, but over the last year I've been converting to PC gaming mostly.

>>781718
I've beaten them all too and I never felt that CD was more challenging, just more time consuming and a bit convoluted.

>>781724

My problem as a console person is that PC is mainly focused on games that are natively more naturally played on PC (FPSs, RTSs, MOBAs, etc), and I don't like any of those genres (never got into any FPS on consoles, I enjoyed WOlfenstein and Doom on PC as a kid but I was never a big fan of the genre, and I don't particularly like how it evolved either, I do prefer these old FPSs to the new ones like Half-Life, etc)
So, even if I know PC is technically better, I don't have many games I'm interested in, other than emulating MAME or consoles.

I respect PC gamers, but I'm still mainly playing on consoles due to the genres and kind of games.

I do like point and click adventure games though, but those are more alive on DS/3DS than on PC.

>>781728
It's much less time consuming once you have the mechanics down. Which, again brings me back to the Dark Souls/Super Metroid comparison. People are much more favorable to the games when they've put more time into becoming good at the mechanics.

And the mechanics of 2 and 3K have less of a required time and effort to be put in to adapt to the mechanics, if that makes any sense.

>>781748
>It's much less time consuming once you have the mechanics down.

This, once you've mastered Sonic CD, you have so much fun replaying it, fucking around with the time travel, taking different routes... you can't do that on other sonics, Sonic 3&K to a degree added different routes, Sonic 2 had some (very well hidden), but Sonic CD took that to a whole new level.

Again, it's just a matter of preference.
And mind you I do like 3&K the most, but CD is one hell of a game too.

>>781739
The thing that's making me shif more and more to PC is the all-in-one-ness of it. It gets all of the multiplats that I see as worth playing, it has support most of the time for controllers (specifically, the 360 controller which is my favorite), it has free online, etc. It's literally the best of all worlds.

That all goes without bringing up the nigh-limitless library granted by emulating.

>>781760
shift*

>>781760

Yeah, I just don't count emulation as properly PC gaming, But yeah nowdays I use PC as much as consoles, but it's all console games.

>>781769
That's fine. I'm just pointing out that it's making me do more gaming on my PC, even if it's not "PC Gaming" in the strictest sense

>>781773

I try to play the games I do own on their original hard because of accurracy and nostalgia, but yeah I'm nost spending the ridiculous amounts some people are asking nowdays for games that aren't even rare, so emulation all the way.

A lot of my emulation I do on the PSP or Wii's VC for convenience though.

>>781748
>Which, again brings me back to the Dark Souls/Super Metroid comparison
Would you knock it off with that shit. Sonic CD is nothing like those, neither are the complaints against it, and you're futilely trying to beat a square peg into a round hole in your comparisons.

>>781775
I like both the original systems and emulation. I do enjoy the nostalgia and such of playing Super Mario World and Vectorman on their original systms. But sometimes, it's nice to be able to lay in bed with my wireless controller and emulate some old games on my laptop.

Sonic CD feels like it was designed by a 12 year old with Attention Deficit Disorder in 10 minute bursts over the course of a week.
BRIGHT COLOURS. LETS PUT A LOOP HERE. LETS PUT A BIG WALL HERE. SPRINGS WE NEED MORE SPRINGS. LETS GO FAST HERE NO CHANGED MY MIND LETS PUT SOMETHING IN SANICS WAY. FUTURE SIGN HERE PAST SIGN HERE LETS PUT ANOTHER FUTURE SIGN HERE. WE NEED MORE SPRINGS. MUSIC? LOL I WANT REPETITIVE DRUMLOOPS AND VOICE SAMPLES YEEEEEEH SONIC!!!

>>781784
Well sure I will, if you point out how it's not a good comparison rather than ignoring my point on how the detractors of all of those games are normally only such due to not putting in the time and dedication required to master their mechanics.

>>781789

>caps lock

why?

>>781794
Because the mechanics behind Sonic CD require very little effort to master, and mastering them doesn't change that it's below average (relative to the Sonic games up to that point).

>>781795
>really?

>>781789
You can make literally any game sound bad like that. Take that brand of shitposting to /v/.

>>781798

I agree Sonic CD doesn't have the same depth as Dark Souls, but for being a platformer game, it does have its depth and requires a little bit more of effort and patience to have fun with in that the other Sonics.
It doesn't necessarily make it worse, it's just different.

>>781798
And saying this, I would assume you've managed to achieve the good ending in it without resorting to the special stages, right?

Now can you explain why this makes it below average? Why does level design that breaks the mold make it below average? I'm legitimately confused here.

>>781814
>without resorting to the special stages, right?
Why is this supposed to be relevant?

>>781818

Getting a good ending with the bonus stages means you haven't properly explored and played the levels like they were meant to. I personally always try to do both, but honestly, I find getting a good ending via the Generators is easier than getting all time stones, these UFOs are such bitches

>>781818
Because you don't know whether or not you've mastered the mechanics of the game until you've done so, because the time travel/exploration is the core mechanic of the fucking game from which the "3crazy5me" level design is designed.

If you haven't done that, then you don't even know if you've mastered said mechanics, and thus you're not qualified to say how easy it is to master them.

>>781794
>my point on how the detractors of all of those games are normally only such due to not putting in the time and dedication required to master their mechanics.
You call it point, I'd call it a useless, self-serving assumption of no argumentative value.

>>781825
You make the game sound shittier than it is, to be honest.

>>781829
>>781831
Thanks for not proving me wrong guys

>>781825
It's a sonic game, not a Boeing 747.
What's to fucking "master"?
You're just backing up how convoluted the game really is.

>>781829

The thing here is that you people sound like these mad pals that constantly shit on Dark Souls threads by saying "artificial difficulty". It is true that most people who played Sonic CD never figured out why you have to time travel (since it's nor explained in-game, only in the manual), never had the patience to learn how levels in Sonic CD works (really, it's easy as fuck to time travel, there are a LOT of places on the levels specifically designed to time travel, yet you see them as "clusterfucks" or "dead ends"), but you want to play it like a regular Sonic (reach the goal as fast as possible), and that's not Sonic CD is played. Id' also find it boring if I only played it like that (unless I'm doing Time Trial).

If you check all the posts on this thread, most of the people criticisin Sonic are only shouting out buzzwords, while the people defending it are giving proper responses explaining why they think the design in CD is not bad.

If you don't like CD just ignore Sonic CD threads. Saying things like "general consensus is that it has bad level design" is just not true, just the opinion of a minority. Which is fine if they want to express it, but don't claim it's a "general consensus"

>>781821
>>781825
If it was a core part of gameplay then it would be required to beat the game, or at least to get the good ending. It's not, therefore it isn't. That's where the comparisons to Super Metroid and Dark Souls fall apart, and where my criticism of Sonic CD is. In order to get the best ending, all you need to do is play the game like it was any other Sonic game. The time travel mechanic is tacked on, not a core mechanic. If it was actually relevant to the game then you'd have a point, but it isn't. Obviously the time travel mechanic is there, but it's entirely optional and secondary to the rest of the game, not a key part of it.

>>781836
>Thanks for not proving me wrong guys
Prove you wrong on what? The thing I criticized you for (your self-serving assumption) wasn't anything contestable, because it's an unfalsifiable claim to begin with, which is exactly why it's not a point, but merely a shitty, rhetorical maneuver.

Cue the next one-liner.

>>781814
Because while it IS different (and at the time new and groundbreaking for the series), it wasn't different in any particularly good way. And value in difference on difference alone isn't worth much.

>>781821
>like they were meant to
>designers literally give you a way out of their mess so you aren't stuck with it.

>>781845
The level design is built around it. That's why the level design is not traditional Sonic level design. I'd assume that makes it a mechanic pretty central to the game's design.

>>781849
See:
>>781839
>>781825

>>781845

The thing is that probably they felt if they made the time travel mandatory, it would alienate a lot of the Sonic fans. But when I talk about Sonic CD, I do it with the time travel mechanic and exploration in mind, otherwise yeah, it's not that fun.

More or less how many people on Souls threads claim using magic in these games is "easy modo" and ruins all the fun.

You see, in other Sonics, the bonus stages (and good ending) wasn't all that relevant, but in Sonic CD it is, getting a good ending means a lot, since you can not only do it by beating the bonus stages (like in classic sonics) but also you have the option to do it by properly time traveling and finding the generators, that's who the game should be played, and yes, I'd thinkg it'd be better if it was mandatory to beat the game, but I guess Sonic CD would get even more hate if they did that.

>>781854
>central to the game's design
>designers literally give you a way to sidestep it IN ITS ENTIRETY

>>781870
They built the level design almost entirely out of the idea of time traveling. How does that not make it a central part of the game?

>>781870
>ignoring how I pointed out that the level design is built around it
>deciding which goal is the main one despite being able to sidestep both of them

>>781854
And you would be wrong, as the mechanic is not required in order to complete the game. Saying it's how the game was "meant to be played" is complete garbage. If it's how it was meant to be played, then it would be required to beat the game normally.

>>781853
>>designers literally give you a way out of their mess so you aren't stuck with it.

That's not what I meant at all, I meant that if you actually paid attention to the levels, you wouldn't cry "boo I get bumped back all the time and can't gain speed to time travel"

>>781879
>the designers of Sonic CD thought this way because I say so
>still ignoring that the levels are clearly designed around exploration and time travel

>>781879
>f it's how it was meant to be played, then it would be required to beat the game normally.

You would hate the game even more if they didn't allow the option to beat the levels without time-traveling.
Just accept it isn't your cup of tea and let others have fun, man.

>>781885
>this is a core mechanic to the game because I said so
>still ignoring that there's absolutely nothing requiring the player to utilize it at all in order to get the best ending in the game

>>781839
>The thing here is that you people..
Yeah, and my point was that irrelevant shit like this shifts the focus away from the game discussion, instead of being a valuable contribution to it.

>It is true that most people who played Sonic CD never figured out...
No, this is not true. This is what you assume to be true and present as fact, because it supports your position. Unless you actually have any data on how many Sonic CD players never figured out the mechanics, don't use this biased, anecdotal assumption as an argument.

>If you don't like CD just ignore Sonic CD threads.
This one started out as a negative Sonic CD thread, so why exactly are *you* here if you like the game? Oh right, because "If you have a different opinion, just keep it to yourself" is a ridiculous thing to preach on a fucking discussion board.

>>781897
Did the developers design the levels around time traveling? Yes or no?

>>781908
Did the developers required time traveling in order to beat the game completely, yes or no?

>>781913
No it is not required. Now answer the question you were asked.

>>781919
>I don't want to answer a simple question because the answer is contrary to my position

>>781913
No. Presumably because they didn't want to force the time traveling mechanic on anyone. An alternate explanation is that time traveling isn't as fun if you're forced to do it for an arbitrary reason.

Now, answer the question I gave to you.

>>781916
I will not, because it is irrelevant in determining whether time travel is a core mechanic. It is not required, therefore it is not required.

>>781913
Just because the developers give you the freedom to play the game wrong doesn't somehow make that the wrong way to play the game.

>>781919
*therefore it is not a core mechanic

>>781867
While I'm not of the mindset that Sonic CD is a bad game, I certainly found it way more entertaining and less tedious just playing the stages through. The time mechanic, while new and somewhat interesting for its time, was ultimately just a lot of backtracking or rote memorization, neither of which I find fun. I would feel the same way, for instance, of a game like Battletoads, difference being that Sonic CD isn't particularly difficult.

Sonic Labyrinth was new and groundbreaking and different for it's time too, and is a pile of shit.

>>781870
It is central in that it is the game's big advertised gimmick. It isn't central in that you needn't give it a single consideration unless you are going out of your way to do so.

My inference was that if the design had enough confidence behind it that it could stand on its own, it wouldn't have been made to be purely optional.

>>781878
If you're samefag, then...
>backpedaling
I didn't say one or the other was main; rather I implied that neither are main if either can be taken to the exact same ends and can be entirely ignored.

If you're not samefag, then I don't really know what you're on about, because I never said one method or another was of greater value or importance.

>>781920
So playing the game "wrong" allows you to get the best ending? Then the game is poorly designed.

>>781924
It's not contrary, it's irrelevant. Learn the difference.

>>781906

>Yeah, and my point was that irrelevant shit like this shifts the focus away from the game discussion, instead of being a valuable contribution to it.

I'm not the guy who started comparing it to the Dark Souls detractors, but at least I'm not the one insulting to reinforce my arguments and instead opt for pointing out actual facts about the game other than "clusterfuck" or "shit".

>No, this is not true...

I'm assuming this because all of your complaints come from trying to play the game as an standard, straighforward Sonic game. I already said if you play Sonic CD without exploring/timetraveling, it's boring. But if you play it with those things in mind, it becomes fun. And if you don't find the exploration fun, then the game is not for you, but it isn't shit, it's your personal taste.

>This one started out as a negative Sonic CD thread

And? we have to put up with anyone's shit just because they start a thread?

>>781919
The level design was very clearly built around exploration and the time travel mechanic. Why is this? Because those two things are the only ways in which the level design makes sense. Are you going to argue against this?

>>781919
How is it irrelevant? THE biggest part of a platformer is the level design. If the level design in a platformer is centered around something, then that suggests that something is a central part of the game. Thus, my question is very relevant in determining if something is a core aspect or not.

>>781931
>And? we have to put up with anyone's shit just because they start a thread?
I was going by *your* logic. Yes, by your own logic, you would have to put up with everyone's shit, because if you don't like it, just ignore it.

>>781930
Yes, but you're going to have a much less enjoyable time playing through it, because you're playing through it wrong.

This thread is still around?

Did mommy not buy you that Sega CD when you were a kid or something? Jesus, it's a good goddamn game. It's the stupidass STORY MODE Sonic Adventure game that was the downfall of the franchise.

>>781927

Second part was aimed at >>781876

>>781948

Well, yeah, I don't usually starts threads about games I don't like, I'm not that kind of poster.

And I can accept criticism, like this guy
>>781927

But when some of you start shouting "this game is a clusterfuck unplayable shit", then no, sorry, I won't agree with you or understand why you waste time hating a game.

today we learn: collecting power ups and jumping on enemies aren't a core parts of mario, master weapons isn't a core part of mega man, using magic isn't a core part of final fantasy, trading and catching aren't core parts of pokemon, because that shit is all optional

>>781932
>>781939
>>781943
There are two possibilities regarding Sonic CD:

1) Completing the game by only progressing through the normal stages and beating the special stages is the right way to play. If so, the level design goes against it, which means it's badly designed.
2) Doing #1 is the wrong way to play, which means it's possible to beat the game and get the perfect ending while playing the game entirely wrong, therefore the game is badly designed.

Either way, the game is badly designed. That's why the level design argument is a red herring and irrelevant.

>>781943
To follow up on this, in an RPG it's certainly possible to beat the game and receive the best ending with a shitty character build. But the fact that the game was less than enjoyable as a result of you doing things unconventionally doesn't make it a bad game.

>>781959

Not doing all those things in those games are only for nerds who try to do these special "no powerups/nuzlecock" runs. Please.

>>781908
Yes, as some kind of time travel occurs regardless of how you play.

>>781913
Yes as, again, some kind of time travel is mandatory to finish the game at all.

>>781916
You are wrong.

>>781960
See
>>781962

>>781956
>understand why you waste time hating a game.
People enjoy expressing their opinions. I'm sure you're empathetic enough to understand this.

>>781961
>Yes as, again, some kind of time travel is mandatory to finish the game at all.
You are factually wrong, you can both complete the game and get the perfect ending very easily without using time travel at all.

>>781960
>That's why the level design argument is a red herring and irrelevant.

Haha, if it's irrelevant then why is everyone bringing it up? The time travel and the level design are hooked up to one another.

Don't you see the connection between the two? I can't believe this. Arguing over the blue hedgehog? Get a grip.

>>781970

Opinion =/= insulting "shitty game clusterfuck!"

As I said, I'm fine with criticism, just not when it's not argumented and expressed like an angry 12 year old kid.

>>781960
False dichotomy. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to play Sonic CD, or really any game.

>>781963
Irrelevant point. By your own stated logic, if something is optional, it's not a core part of the game. Therefore, collecting power ups in Mario isn't a core part, etc. Still want to use that line of reasoning?

>>781976
You seem to be obsessed with shit and clusterfuck anon.
I have not seen those terms, only in your posts.

>>781985

As I said (I know it's hard to follow individual posters on ana nonymous board, but well), Sonic CD without playing it with the time travel and epxloration mechanics is not as fun, I agree with that!
But that doesn't MAKE the game bad.

Now, I'll ask you this:
if they maqde the time travel mandatory to beat the game, would you like it?
I don't think so, the game would still not be of your personal preference.

Just to be clear again, I'm not saying CD is the best Sonic game (3&K clearly is), and playing without the time travel mechanic makes it kind of subpar... but the WHOLE point of Sonic CD is time traveling! why the fuck would you play a game that its famous for its time traveling system, and NOT do it?

>>781996
>best Sonic game (3&K clearly is)
But that's 2 games anon

>>781972
Actually, you are factually wrong. At the very least, time travel occurs in every third act, as you only ever fight Robotnik in the 'good' or 'bad' future, never the present or past.

>>782005

2 used to be my favorite as a kid and remains 2nd place, but 3&K for me. Dat doomsday zone.

>>781995

Are you saying you've never seen somebody call a game "shit" or clusterfuck" before?

That's what he's talking about. I can understand if you didn't read the thread because this is a big ass mess. Anyway, I can't believe I sat down and read these posts, I feel instantly dumber. Fuck guys. Holy fuck.

WAY TO GO.

>>782005
>implying this thread needs that can of worms opened
>implying they aren't one game that was released as two incomplete halves as a result of the complete cartridge having to be to too expensive to produce and sell

Debris 32.

Did anyone else play this as shareware?

Surely I cannot be the only one.

Also, it had badass music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8koyRScG4

>>782016
I owned S&K and finished it many times. It never felt incomplete or half a game at all. In fact I'd take any single stage from Sonic and Knuckles over Sonic CD in its entirety anyday.

>>781980
>The time travel and the level design are hooked up to one another. Don't you see the connection between the two?
Fuck sakes, get some reading comprehension. I never argued against that, I argued it's irrelevant because 100%ing the game requires no time travel whatsoever, and is in fact easier without it.

>>781985
>There is no "right" or "wrong" way to play Sonic CD
I'm arguing against people saying that not using time travel is the "wrong" way to play.

>collecting power ups in Mario isn't a core part, etc.
Difference being that eschewing all of those makes the game harder, whereas eschewing time travel actually makes it easier.

>>782008
That has nothing to do with the time travel mechanic itself, using the time travel posts to warp between different versions of the same zone. Mechanically, you complete one act and go to the next. That's it.

>>782040
That's fine. But they were built as one game. Same instrumentation, same art assets, same abilities, same powerups, released in the same year.

The ONLY reason it was not released in one piece was due to how expensive it would be.

>>782039
The 'going through time in the middle of a stage' gimmick isn't necessary, true, but that's not what you said. The question was simply if time travel must occur to complete the game, and in the context of the playthrough, the answer is yes.

Perhaps in the future you would be wise to be more clear about what you're asking.

>>782039
>Fuck sakes, get some reading comprehension. I never argued against that, I argued it's irrelevant because 100%ing the game requires no time travel whatsoever, and is in fact easier without it.

Yeah, you don't see the connection.

>>782039
Dat goalpoal shifting. But anyway, using time travel actually makes the game easier. Future versions of levels are a lot easier because a lot of the badniks and traps are broken.

Plus, it's not always easy to avoid time traveling. There are a couple of times where I've time traveled by accident. You really have to go out of your way to clear the game without time traveling once.

>>782058
>Dat goalpoal shifting.
>consistently the same argument
Sure thing bud.

>>782069
You initially said that time traveling was not a core mechanic because it's optional.

I brought up examples from Mario, Mega Man, eg and now you're switching to "well it makes the game easier if you don't do it", of course ignoring the fact that time traveling actually makes the game easier as I outlined in my post, which you have happily ignored.

>>782080
>time traveling actually makes the game easier
That's where you're wrong, which makes your comparison invalid. Sure the good future versions of levels are easier, but getting to them requires you to activate that good future to begin with. Going through acts and beating the special stages without caring about time travel is easier.

And no, the argument was not simply that it was optional, but that it was optional and irrelevant to completion. In Mario, Mega Man etc., all of what you listed make completion easier. In Sonic CD, time travel does not, which means it's an auxiliary part of the game.

And all of that doesn't change that, even if it was a core mechanic, all it means is that the game is easier if you ignore a core mechanic, which just means it's badly designed! No matter what argument you try to use, it just leads back to it being badly designed.

So what exactly is anyone in the thread trying to prove?

There are either two sides to this.

>1) Sonic CD is a different game and completing it requires some thought. A game that requires thought is not a bad game.
>2) Sonic CD is badly designed. Time travel is a useless feature and is a departure from the speed of the first 2 Genesis entries. The level design and time travel do not correspond with each other and I will argue to ad infinitum until people realize I'm correct.

Folks that identify with statement 1 are level headed people.

The people that identify with statement 2 are probably the loudmouths that shit up every thread with rhetoric and overthinking. They get so into it that what they're arguing about makes less and less sense each time they post. Did you forget that this is a video game?

>>782096
Both bad future and good futures are easier. Good future is the easiest because there are no enemies entirely, but bad future still has a lot of broken badniks and traps. Since traveling back in time makes completion easier, it's therefore a core part of the game by your logic.

>>782096
Don't forget that Mega Man and Mario are still well designed and challenging if you avoid master weapons/powerups, while Sonic CD isn't even if you time travel.

>>782108
1) I'd still argue that completing the act without seeking out time travel is easier than searching for a future post and then completing the act.
2) Regardless, 100% the game most certainly is easier by beating the special stages and ignoring the time travel-based method.

>>782121
1) Oh yes because it's so hard time time traveling
2) I don't like the special stages. I've never gotten all the time stones. Whenever I get the good ending, I always do it by getting all the good futures. I find time traveling easier.

>>782121

But as someone else pointed out, you would still stumble across a time post and accidentally time travel even if you don't want to. You would have to be careful to AVOID time posts and time traveling, and that would be like... playing the game completely backwards.

>>782121
>I'd still argue that

Here's our problem. Arguing never solves anything and the person you're trying to convince usually doesn't care.

Not everyone is impressionable as you think. Some folks are deadset in their ineptitude. Complete lost cause and yet these threads always make it to 300+ posts.

>>782125
>you would still stumble across a time post and accidentally time travel even if you don't want to
So? You don't stumble into 100%ing the game.

>>782137
The point is that you'd have to explicitly go out of your way and be careful to avoid time traveling period. Like how you have to purposely avoid collecting power ups in Mario or using master weapons in Mega Man.

I am legitimately surprised that this is a debate we're having. Sonic CD avoided being another Sonic 1 port because Naoto Oshima liked the time travel concept a lot. It's the most advertised feature of the game. The fucking plot has time traveling. You're really grasping for straws here.

>>782148
>The point is that you'd have to explicitly go out of your way and be careful to avoid time traveling period
So how does any of that matter when the easiest way to 100% the game is through complete apathy toward the most advertised feature of the game?

>>782137

What I mean is, you will come across time travel and avoiding it could actually make it all pointless.

>>782131
That's how videogame argues work, we aren't solving any world problem here, we're just arging about a 1993 game's reputation.
The general consensus is that Sonic CD is a good game, yet there are delusional people who think their opinions worth too much.

>>782159
Contrary to how much I'm arguing against it, I think Sonic CD is overall a good game, just that the game doesn't do a good enough job showing off its core mechanic. Would've been better implemented if you were forced to time travel in order to complete any act, and special stages only appeared if you got the good future in the act, or not at all. That and tightening up the physics a bit are the only things needed. I think the game was ambitious and had good ideas, but didn't do a good enough job of actually implementing those ideas.

>>782174

Well, I actually can agree with that. I'm mostly talking about the people who try to stain it as a bad game just because they personally don't like the time travel and level designs (calling it badly designed, etc).
No game is perfect, and I've said many times CD is not my favorite Sonic game, but it's far from being anything close to bad, I think it's pretty good and one of the best in the franchise.

>>782154
Because I don't think it's the easiest way to complete the game. I've never gotten all the time stones.

>>782174
>I think the game was ambitious and had good ideas, but didn't do a good enough job of actually implementing those ideas.

I think we've reached an stalemate. I mean it was 1993. I just don't get how someone can absolutely hate Sonic CD. You'd think the game would have left at least one positive impression on those who find the game aggravating.

>>782174
I can see where you're coming from with that. Though if they did that, people would complain about the game "forcing a shitty gimmick on you". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

>>782194
The main issue is that Sonic CD was marketed as a regular Sonic game, which meant it had to follow the example of 1, 2 and 3K. It would still be possible for them to have implemented time travel in a way that continued that gameplay. I think if they had gone a route similar to what Kid Chameleon did with its stages, it'd would've been better overall.

>>782107
You're not helping

>>782107
The problem is that the first bit makes a clear fallacy: The game doesn't require much thought to complete unless you explicitly wish it to. inb4 how the game or any game should be played.

I agree with you about the second bit's tendency to devolve into banter though.

>>782206
CD started development before 2 (or at least, very roughly around the same time). It was a very early stage in Sanic's life so there really wasn't much of a good example of Sonic, if you get what I'm saying.

I don't hate Sonic CD, I just detest the people who blindly praise it as the best classic sonic when it is clearly not.
It's an average platformer that just happens to star a blue hedgehog. The high calibre of the other entries in the series brings CD down.

Am I gonna have to bump the Kirby thread to make you faggots calm down?

>>782263
Can't you get through one day without needing another hit?

>>782227
Also adding on to this point, the Sonic 2 team and the CD team did have some contact early on, and that's why they share some elements, such as the spin dash, a new friend, a robot Sonic, and even the time travel concept came from Sonic 2 (which got scrapped very early on). So it did seem like they were trying to keep it consistent with each other, but the American and Japanese branches of SEGA had horrendous communication in the 90s; combine that with development pressures, and that communication didn't last too long.

>>782227
I'm not sure what the budget and dev team was for the game compared to 2, but it feels unpolished in comparison. I also get the feeling that the time travel was not added until relatively late in the dev process.

>>782271
EVERY DAY UNTIL /vr/ CHILLS THE FUCK OUT

>>778525
TELEPORTATION YEAH, SHOBIDOBOOYEAH.

>>778021
>It's like saying you hate Spinball or Shuffle because they aren't 2D classic platformers.
It's not like that at all, because I didn't say "I hate 3D Blast, because it's not a 2D classic platformer". I dislike it, because its gameplay simply doesn't appeal to me.

>>777854
But that's not Sonic Colors

Though, I don't like CD much either. The level design isn't my cup of tea and I don't care for the time travel system either.

>>779874
It's as much of a main game as Sonic R. It was done by Traveler's Tales (same studio that did Sonic R) and never wasn't even released in Japan until the Saturn version. Some say that's why Jun made arrange versions of Green Grove (Windy Valley - The Air) and Panic Puppet (Twinkle Park - Twinkle Cart) for Sonic Adventure.

>>778096
Knuckles Chaotix was really original. Sadly they had some problem with character control and physics.
But i loved that game, i loved the Day/Night Cycle, i loved the fucking music and more important, i loved the graphic a la Sonic CD

>>783324
I liked it too, mostly for the music, the purdy colors and that little robot character.

>>778096
Chaotix has a similar art direction to Sonic CD, but the level design is the exact opposite. Sonic CD focuses more on slower puzzle platforming in really closed in areas. Knuckles Chaotix focuses on pure speed in wide open spaces and few actual enemies. I didn't actually realize it until recently.

I'm playing CD right now and am trying to time travel on Wacky Workbench round 1... just how do you do it? there isn't any way to build speed because most of the level is vertical, and the floor keeps bounding you up.

I remember there being a large tube that you would get into and that was I think the only way in the level to time travel, but I can't find a way to enter that tube.

>>785475

Nevermind, I just remembered where it was.
Now I need to find a Past post.

>>785487

Meh, I gave up for now. Hazards in WW Past are fucking hardcore, one of the most hardcore Sonic zones for sure.

>>785475

>want to time travel while having the "Past" sign
>always fails
>accidentally touch a "Future" signs
>accidentally build up incredible speed and time travel to the wrong time zone

ALWAYS. especially in fucking Wacky workbench

Sonic Cd was no Sonic 2, but it was certainly better than the first game.

>>786904
Get out

>>786917
But he's right.

>>786917
Yes. Sonic 1 was way better than CD.

>>786920
Sonic 2 wasn't really that good. It was just better than Sonic 1 and hyped as fuck.

>>786925
I consider 3&K the best personally, but 2 is pretty solid.

Sonic CD is good but not like Sonic 2 and 3

>>786926
You consider 2 on 1 a fair fight?

Sonic CD is good butits not so good as Sonic 2 and 3

>>786946
Whatever, I also consider both 3 OR K superior to 2 on their own.

>>786943
>>786938
I didn't like 3 that much. There were less levels, too many silly power ups, and michael jackson music nonsense. Art was pretty decent though.

>>786967

I didn't like the art in S3&K much.
Weaker color palette (everything looks more "realistic", it just doesn't work with the Megadrive's poor color pallette, stronger, more vivid colors like the older Sonics is best).
And Sonic's sprite looks retarded.

>>786967
>too many silly power ups
You mean the 3 shields? That's just 1 more than Sonic 2.

>michael jackson music nonsense
We didn't know that until a few years ago. Why would that affect your opinion? Besides regardless of your feelings about Michael Jackson, it's an amazing soundtrack.

>>786973
It's like they were trying to out do DKC or something.
I think Sonic 3 is a bit weak but S&K redeems it.

>>786974
3 shields with 3 different abilities

S1 and S2 only had a basic shield that only protected Sonic.

>>786973
I feel the character sprites from 3&K are the best ones. I don't much care for the really old Sonic model that makes him look like he has a mohawk.

>>786987
You're welcome not to like them, but 3 minor abilities involving a slight shove in a direction isn't all that silly.