/vr/ - Retro Games

There's probably some super obscure open source or freeware arena shooter that hasn't received a single update since Vista launched that's got a good two or three dozen people playing it at all times and would love to have you play duel against them
Good luck winning against people who've spent a decade plus mastering the one chosen map that everyone wants to play on though

Duels are garbage, team modes are superior.

>>7772208
>Good luck winning against people who've spent a decade plus mastering the one chosen map that everyone wants to play on though

I don't think this is necessarily true. You just have to put in the time. In the late 2000s there were a couple people that picked up QW and became scary good almost overnight. But their dead-ness makes that impossible nowadays.

>>7772226
I disagree but whatever

as a person that never stopped playing ut2004, I never ever enjoyed 1on1

>>7772261
I also dislike instagib with the force of a thousand suns
/blog

>>7772250
>winning against people who've spent a decade
>I don't think this is necessarily true. You just have to put in the time
>You just have to put in the time
So it's true.

>>7772273
You can get good and up to that level very quickly if you play a lot against people like that and look at your demos, try to reflect on your playstyle, and practice the things you're bad at. In any game. It does not take as long as you think to become good.

RTS and fighting games have distinct mechanical differences that can appeal to people long after the game has become obsolete. Shooters not so much. You have Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament and Battlefront 2, which collectively are the best of the classic genre by most metrics. When Q3 came out literally no one was clamoring to keep playing Quake 2 multiplayer or go back to Quake 1. When Unreal Tournament came out nobody was trying to keep the Unreal multiplayer scene alive.

You also have the fact that 1v1s in those kinds of games were usually extremely one sided unless both players are very new. Generally the first person who successfully gets on the perfect path of whatever map is going to completely dominate. If you hit the "rocket launcher, yellow armor, 4 health pack" route before the other player or know a more optimal way to handle that then they will never catch up. It dosen't matter if they grab super nailgun and get you to 1hp if you still kill them in 2 hits and then are back to 100% before they can respawn and reach you. If you are good once you control the best items on the map the other guy can just never climb out of that hole. Especially if you are very familiar with a map and have a good idea of where they will spawn you can probably intercept them when they still just have the shotgun. There is never going to be a part where the guy losing literally 0-20 is going to feel cool or have fun. One can make a "well life isn't fair blahblah" argument but if you are talking about a game someone is playing in their leisure time and have no obligation to play then why would they?

>>7772296
>When Q3 came out literally no one was clamoring to keep playing Quake 2 multiplayer or go back to Quake 1.

That's literally not true man, a lot of quakeworld players hated Q3 and its movement and that's how the CPMA mod started (but it eventually became its own thing). Quake players are notorious for only liking exclusively 1 quake game's physics, armor system, and switch times.

Too many AFPS games to catch on, scattered community.

If you are new and join any of the (dead) afps, you'll probably play against 2 or 3 dudes that have been playing for 20 years already and smack you 70 to -3. So I believe the usual player would rather boost their ego playing CS or COD (bruhh look at this shot im so good xd) than ruin their ego by getting rekt at afps.

>>7772281
>You can get good and up to that level very quickly if you play a lot against people like that and look at your demos, try to reflect on your playstyle, and practice the things you're bad at. In any game. It does not take as long as you think to become good.
This is pretty much the same as "you just have to put in the time". These games are infinitely harder than any tactical fps around there, and you can't practice alone (except for movementation, map routes etc), which is something you can do with RTS, fighting games etc.

>>7772321
I was playing at that time and not a member of any forums but the sentiment you are describing is one that I saw literally nowhere or ever heard spoken out loud. Everyone that I knew thought Quake 3 was incredible

Not retro but Warsow/Warfork still have decent 1v1 communities with a good range of skill level. I am total dogshit but I was able to get enjoyable games.

>>7772421
>This is pretty much the same as "you just have to put in the time". These games are infinitely harder than any tactical fps around there
That's not really true, it's a different skillset. And I do think certain games are absolutely harder than others so I'm not a relativist about this shit either.

>and you can't practice alone (except for movementation, map routes etc)
You can. You can train aim against bots, train movement, and train timings. Bulat and GT (some of the best QW players) played against bots for years and then just raped everyone.

>>7772469
> it's a different skillset
can you talk more about that? I cant really think how its different, at least for me.

>look at your demos
it takes me a lot of time whenever reviewing demos because i try to understand whats going on and what i couldve done better

> try to reflect on your playstyle
yeah, thats something you can do post-match or when idle or practicing your aim idk, so not time consuming

>practice the things you're bad at. In any game
well, practice always take time bro. At least for me (took me a whole week on ztricks to do the first sequence of the map, not even t he whole thing hahaha; or how i spent months practicing rocket jump at tf2 just to land process rollout)

>GT
The brazilian player? Are you br too?

Also, how to setup to play against bots on QW? I did played against some on CPMA.

>>7772185

>>7772185
That genre never died.

>>7772692
Totalbiscuit said some dumb shit, but this was a time when he was spot-on. Arenafags are their own enemy. If a game is too similar to Quake 3, the response is "If I wanted to play Quake 3 I would" and if it's too different the response becomes "This isn't an arena shooter."
The best way to revive the genre would be to make something fresh. Stop trying to appeal to existing audiences, because they won't take it, stop making games with esports autism in mind, because that's gay, just make something fun.

>>7772491
>Are you br too?
No

>Also, how to setup to play against bots on QW?
don't know, I have no desire to play against bots because it seems incredibly mundane

>>7772692
>DOOM mp is too much like modern fps and not oldschool enough or exactly like Quake (and is simultaenously bad because it isn't entirely new).
>QC comes out and suddenly failing to be Quake and doing what every other mp fps is currently doing is a good thing.
Was some sort of destructive abnormality spreading through his brain?

>>7772185
If you're comparing arena shooters, fighting games and rts you need to look at the most popular game in each since that drives interest in the whole genre. Starcraft through some cosmic fluke was chosen as the sport of a fucking country and had a AAA title in 2010, and Street Fighter was saved from being played exclusively by boomers in dying arcades with 4.
Meanwhile the autistic management at id burned through all the talent that actually knew how to make a Quake game to the point that they had to outsource it, resulting in a game so dogshit on release that it killed the series.
What happened after that? Years later id came up with a minimum viable product (a locked down Q3 sourceport) to push their shitty f2p and browser game model, and when they figured out that no one wanted to buy virtual billboard space in video games they slapped a monthly subscription fee on their decade old game and killed it. Years later they outsourced another minimum viable product to vodkas and slapped lootboxes and F2P aids all over it because Tim Willits' gremlin brain saw some Overwatch screenshots.

>>7774936
Also Quake is thought of as a 1v1 game now, but that wasn't true when it was popular. You'd make a clan with your friends and some faggots you talked to online and play some quake fortress, ctf, tdm, or some random mod. There were big tournaments and tons of competition if you wanted to get good.
The problem was always that Quake CTF and TDM is fucking fun to play but confusing and boring to watch, while people who barely even play can still hoot and holler at rapha or cypher dumping rockets on some dipshit's head. CS was also cutting in hard on the player base, so the end result was duel just getting pushed more and more. My friend who was good enough to get flown out to LANs and get bopped by fatal1ty a couple times back in the day pretty much only played team modes.
Quake can't really compete with team based shooters but it was a mistake to just drop it. It was funny seeing the QC devs push sacrifice and realizing 20 years too late that quake team modes are unwatchable though. And then replacing it with the worst ctf in the game's history, truly epic shit.

>>7772491
>Also, how to setup to play against bots on QW? I did played against some on CPMA.
I think QW bots are client side so you can't just hop on bot servers. I remembering them being easy to set up in nquake though.

Quake 1 is perfect literally the only issue it has was netcode which was fixed in quake world. The new UT games were still good because they didn't change anything really and it stayed the same UT at its core which also kinda sucks because it spreads out the player base instead of concentrating in one area. Honestly if people want arena FPS they should play Quake 1 for duels, quake 2 for ctf and team modes and the fun as fuck mods, quake 3 for your esports faggotry. Half Life and OpFor had amazing TDM too just because of all the weapons. throw UT in there for a little variety. Then your Sprite based shooters like Douk and Doom are best for coop. New shooters are for consoles and playing casually like CoD but if you want something a little more challenging and serious play the classics. There is no reason we need new arena shooters.

>>7776435
Sorry but the scene is fully dead and we're about 10 years too late for good intentioned remasters with basic features that battle.net had in 2002. We're fully in the bad ending, embrace the indie piles and cash grabs.

>>7776435
>Honestly if people want arena FPS they should play Quake 1 for duels

Yeah I love using only 2 weapons that annihilate you in half a second

>>7777268
Thats what every duel is though. Doom is all about the super shotgun and chain gun for long range. Dueling is more about map control and positioning than weapon variety. Most weapons in any arena FPS are just throw aways until you get the rocket launcher or flak cannon. Play quake 3 or UT if you need a long range sniper gun. I find the rail gun makes the game too easy so I prefer quake 1 but quake 3 and UT are still good options. I just don't see what else you can bring to the genre other than flashier graphics.

>>7772208
It's called OpenArena and it's based

>>7777948
no, it's really not

>>7780043
Wtf do you know lmao wanna have a go?

Modern FPS competitive scenes generally show that the genre by and large moved towards team-based modes long ago.

>>7772185
OP's post is completely and 100% false. Plenty of people play quake live duel and you will find a duel game pretty quickly. It is utter bullshit to say "nobody plays duel". This is aside from all the other game modes there are like FFA and CA that are populated 24/7.

Duel requires specific circumstances to be met, otherwise it'll be a waste of time for both parties. It's sort of like choosing who you will hang out with vs who you will bang. You could hang around with almost anyone who's in the vicinity, no big deal. Who you will bang however, requires a different mindset, you're going to be more circumspect.

>>7772250
>>7772281
>>7772469
Imagine saying you just need to "put in the time" to get where Magnus Carlsen is at and that years of the right experience don't matter
Magnus Carlsen, being a prodigy aside, would not be as skilled at chess if he wasn't coached by Kasparov, nor if he hadn't played against creme of the crop tournament players his whole life. You can't just fucking "put in the time", you absolute retard. And that's just chess, a turn-based game. In a real-time arena shooter where the depth of skill is infinitely more complex, you never stop improving.

>>7780626
>Imagine saying you just need to "put in the time" to get where Magnus Carlsen is at and that years of the right experience don't matter

Meanwhile the second post said:
>You can get good and up to that level very quickly if you play a lot against people like that [i.e. people who are very good] and look at your demos, try to reflect on your playstyle, and practice the things you're bad at.

Which literally agrees with you, it's almost like you can't read.

>>7772185
>Quake Live
maybe if they didnt put a paywall over it you might not have this problem

>>7772692
As far as I know, none of those games that were listed by him were advertised anywhere, not to mention I haven't seen those games on console either. The trope of >"bringing X type of game back!" usually falls flat because they either try too hard to be that specific genre and end up failing or they just don't advertise it to gain a wider audience

>>7782269
It's still free for everyone who ever downloaded the client on Steam though.

>>7772461
warsow was released in 2005 though, it is perfectly retro

>>7781019
No, you can't spend 2 years playing against chess grandmasters and come even remotely close to their level. You can experience good progress for your skill level, but you'll always struggle when you encounter depths of ability that come naturally to those who play for +5 years let alone a decade+ from a younger age. And that feeling is the worst because you can truly work your ass off, but the reality is you didn't start memorizing patterns since you were 13, and will inevitably suck.
It's not even up for debate. Do you think you'd be able to win an argument against a Chinese 16 year old if you started learning his language at 30 and studied for 6 years? Not a chance in hell, your brain is too old at that point. And language mastery isn't even much different to any other skill, it's just as much pattern repetition as any other.

Just ignore this dude, there is no point trying to reason or show him reality.

>>7772693
Map file please

>>7772457
Nah this guy >>7772321 is right. There was massive resistance and CPMA was a way of convincing people to move to playing Q3 competitively. Even Carmack acknowledged push back from the community and in principal supported a pro mode that was more aligned to QW