/vr/ - Retro Games

Dumb thread

You know you could take games that were actually released on both consoles for a fairer comparison

really dumb thread

>>7756480
It would be a funny joke except there are people on this board who actually defend FzeroX looking like this.
>it's 60 frames, many vehicles
Mate, if I decided to represent a "vehicle" by an unchanging pixel, and "speed" by moving the camera past an unshaded tracks, with a static background, then a fucking .png image would be rendering a race at a infinity frames per second.
Nobody cares about frames of nothing, or in Fzeros case, hideous worse than nothing. No graphics at all would have been better

>>7756498
I've got to get DD games otherwise it would make N64 look even worse.

Good luck running Mario 64 on a PS1 without it looking like Silent Hill. Stupid bait thread, sage and leave.

https://youtu.be/5wKk1_5NH94

I think they're pretty equal bros

The n64 voice acting has more soul tho

Why does F-Zero X and the N64 in general seem to draw the ire of the most autistic people on /vr/ and /v/?

>>7756530
>autistic people
It's literally just one samefag spamming ad nauseum

>>7756480
>Why was Nintendo 64 unable to keep up to PSX at all?
...Ever play Sin and Punishment?

>>7756480
It's sad that you had to use an emu to get a PSX screenshot that looks that good.

>>7756565
You Nintendrones never fail to cry about emulation and everything else to avoid N64's piss weak graphics.

>>7756584
>reverse search image
>find a Neofag thread from 2012
Can you go back please?

>>7756584
>Nintendrones
And you whatever-the-fuck-you-ares that let Nintendo live rent-free in your breads never fail to make excuses and project shit like "crying" onto us Nintendo fans when YOU are the ones who are always getting assmad and using childish insults over petty things like this.

Just post an unfiltered PSX screen taken at the console's native resolution, aliasing intact. It shouldn't be that difficult.

>>7756584
I don't get why when they could just use emulation to upscale their N64 graphics.

>>7756616
>Just post an unfiltered PSX screen taken at the console's native resolution, aliasing intact. It shouldn't be that difficult.

Ok here you go, all three of these were captured from real hardware using Composite cables for extra lulz.

>>7756637
N64 clearly looks best.

>>7756643
Sure if you like having Vaseline smeared all over the screen. Whatever floats your boat.

>>7756647
It's not like Playstation or Saturn are any more sharp in composite video.

>>7756637
Right, and this is your evidence that the PlayStation looks better, is it? This is the image you decided to save and keep handy for these stupid threads?

>>7756643
this, its clear N64 is the winner

>>7756651
I can still see individual pixels the edge of the shadows on the Saturn shot. When it comes to overall image quality Saturn definitely wins between the 3. N64 is smeared to death and PS1 has full screen dithering going on. If you use S-Video it really becomes apparent as N64 barely changes and Saturn looks like the attached picture.
>>7756656
I'm not the same guy you were arguing with. Those were just some old ones I had on my PC from old captures that I slapped together for lulz.

>>7756665
>and Saturn looks like the attached picture.
Like shit?

>>7756637
Not sure which you're arguing look better or worse, but this does a disservice to both mgs and n64.
MGS is clearly meant for a crt's glow, those lights flares would look amazing with actual glowing pixels.
And Zelda is one of the ugliest games on 64. I couldn't play it at the time it just looked too shit for me. You should put goldeneye up against MGS - same exact type of scenes rendered in each. MGS imo is a retarded game with no playability let alone replayability (fuck off with cutscenes. watching cutscenes is insect-person shit) whereas I enjoy goldeneye to this day - but MGS does look better

>>7756665
>i can see the pixels so it is the best
Sometimes I think I have a caricatured view of retards on here - they aren't that bad - but no here we are

>>7756674
>you're

>>7756480
>>7756584
>>7756637
>>7756665
Snoys always think they win with these still screenshots, but they always lose when they post anything animated and the vertices can't stay still.

>>7756661
Sure. Now can you tell me what Link is standing in front of here?

>>7756684
You wanna see a Playstation game in motion?

>>7756671
No, extremely crisp and clean. Of the 3 Saturn definitely produces the cleanest image even with Composite or S-video cables. Honestly Saturn S-Video is so clean that you could easily fool people it's RGB.
>>7756676
If we're talking about which system produces the cleanest and sharpest image then yes that matters.
>>7756674
It wasn't really meant to say any was better or worse. It was just a three way comparison of what I had available from real hardware captures. Kind of a "Well here's 3 similar kinds of games on all three systems and how they look." The N64 fanboys like clockwork jumped on it as "SEEE N64 BETTER! SNOYS DUMB!" even though I'm a Saturn fanboy.

>>7756696
Imagine being a fanboy for the Saturn.

>>7756684
Imagine thinking a frame reduced and heavily compressed webm is actually accurate.
>>7756689
>>7756684
How's this for a PS1 game in motion?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rdAxewJ6fw

>>7756707
>frame reduced
Lie.
>heavily compressed
Not even.
>How's this for a PS1 game in motion?
It's heavily restricted to reach its target framerate.

>>7756701
Didn't the Saturn outsell N64 in your favourite weeb country?

>>7756665
>S-Video
Saturn has a beautiful, crystal-clear RGB signal. I can understand using composite for the dithering, but S-video? bleh.

>>7756715
>It's not frame reduced!
It is, I own both those games and while yes they do have spots they can chug at, they don't look that bad.
>It's not heavily compressed!
How do you think they got it under the 4MB limit?
>It's restricted to reach that frame rate!
So is F-Zero X. I wouldn't be surprised if both games were drawing a similar amount of Polygons per frame. And besides, the argument was that things would warp and vertices couldn't stay still in motion. That game does a very good job mitigating the texture warping issue in both the 60fps hi-fi mode and the 30fps normal mode.

If we're now talking frame rate again the N64 loses there. Both the Saturn and PS1 have more 3D games running at 60 fps than the N64.

>>7756716
Barely. 5.75 million versus 5.54 million.

>>7756729
Wrong. Those aren't final numbers for the Saturn, they're mid generation numbers from Famitsu. Saturn's final numbers from Sega are about 9 million world wide, with about 2 million or so coming from the US, Europe, etc. The rest is Japan. So it's closer to 6-7 Million versus the N64's 5.5 Million. And because I know this is coming next,
>But N64 sold more software!
Again that doesn't seem likely. N64 had a worldwide attach rate of about 6-7:1. From Sega's close to final numbers in 1998 they had sold 8.8 Million Saturns and about 80 Million Saturn games. That would give it a worldwide attach rate of about 9:1. Now those are world wide, so in Japan Saturn's attach rate is probably higher than that and N64's is probably lower. So with the higher attach rate and the higher number of consoles sold, Saturn would have sold more software in Japan.

>>7756728
>It is, I own both those games and while yes they do have spots they can chug at, they don't look that bad.
Straight up lying. I did nothing to the footage to reduce the framerate whatsoever. If you think otherwise you've either never played these games or are in complete denial.

>>7756743
Then where does the source footage come from? Every time those are posted I ask this and it's never provided.

>>7756745
The Tomb Raider one is mine and the Quake footage is from this youtube video https://youtu.be/v6spL3O_Thg?t=92.. I fixed the aspect ratio in post since this mongoloid thinks 16:9 stretching is acceptable.

>>7756729
How can anybody say Saturn Quake is better than this

I'm convinced its just one person shilling the Saturn Quake port, look in the archives, every single time he brings up Quake 64 he mentions vaseline, every single time. He's very very angry about the N64 in particular and is quite hostile about his hatred for it.

>>7756751
Your webm looks choppier. Yes Saturn is chugging there, but your webm makes it look worse than this video because you're a retard who capped a 60fps video at to 30fps.

>>7756759
Give it up autist the YouTube video looks like shit compared to >>7756729

>>7756751
Your webm looks worse. Yes Saturn chugs there more than N64, but your webm makes it look far worse because you're a retard who capped a 60fps video to 30fps. You threw away every other frame which is going to make it look a lot worse

>>7756764
This is pure placebo cope nonsense. I did nothing to reduce the framerate and if I did, why not make your own 60FPS encoded version to show us how it really looks?

>>7756767
The original youtube video is 60fps. Your video is 29.97fps. You reduced the frame rate.
> why not make your own 60FPS encoded version to show us how it really looks?
I don't have to. Look at the Youtube video at 60fps. Yes the frame rate does drop, but it doesn't look nearly as bad as your webm.

>>7756778
We all can see the YouTube video, it looks like shit.

>>7756783
But not as shitty as your webm.

>>7756784
Not him, just a bystander who clicked the YouTube video.

>>7756778
Here's the world of difference 60FPS encode.

>>7756758
It's common sense that N64 games look like vaseline covered in piss. Forget Quake, Powerslave Saturn is buttery smooth and has five times the clarity of N64's 12 fps cataract slideshows. Prime before Prime. Lobotomy Does.

>>7756785
He screwed with the frame rate on his N64 one as well. Neither are good examples to use for a comparison. Sure Saturn Quake has more frame drops than N64 Quake, not denying that. I'm simply pointing out his janky webms aren't accurate reflections because he dicked with the frame rate on them. It looks a lot worse because he deleted half the frames which means the drops look like they last longer than they actually do.

Also for what it's worth, Saturn quake has more complex geometry, higher quality textures, and dynamic lighting over the N64 version. That's probably not helping the performance.

>>7756787
Looks better than the previous one.

>>7756806
>Saturn quake has more complex geometry, higher quality textures, and dynamic lighting over the N64 version
This lie doesn't work when the proof against it is in the very same thread.
>He screwed with the frame rate on his N64 one as well
Just a habitual liar.

Also
>powerslave

>>7756812
>This lie doesn't work when the proof against it is in the very same thread.
The evidence in this thread shows the Saturn levels have more geometry, dynamic lighting, and better textures. Are you retarded?
>Just a habitual liar.
Your first webm was 29fps, the new one is 60fps like the youtube video and doesn't look as bad. Again are you retarded?
>I like to cherry pick things that make the Saturn look bad!
I'm sure we can cherry pick quite a few bad N64 clips to paint an equally bad picture.

>>7756819
You are easily the most delusional person on /vr/ if you think the Saturn version of Quake looks better in any way. And you're objectively wrong about the geometry too.

>>7756480
So we have gone from console wars to emulator wars? Just when you thought that this board couldn't get any more pathetic...

>>7756683
yes
'which one you are arguing looks better or worse'

>>7756821
I didn't say it looks better, I said there's a few aspects where it does a little more than the N64 version. The textures are high resolution and do look better when the screenshot isn't compressed to hell. And the Saturn version does have dynamic lighting which you can see in your own webms when weapons fire is lighting up the surrounding scenery. You don't have that happening on N64.
>you're objectively wrong about the geometry too.
Apparently right angle square arches require more polygons than curved arches when you're an N64 fanboy.

>>7756787
wtf are you talking about you can see the individual frames it's like 7 FPS at most

>>7756834
It looked even worse when he deleted half the frames.

>>7756829
>Apparently right angle square arches require more polygons than curved arches when you're an N64 fanboy.
Apparently massive walls breaking up a level into small boxes is unnoticeable if you're a Saturn fanboy.

>>7756806
>Sure Saturn Quake has more frame drops than N64 Quake, not denying that
Why are you even defending it then? Who wants to play a port that "chugs along" as you put it?

>Saturn quake has more complex geometry
It achieves this by warping textures, doesn't look good in motion.

>higher quality textures
Matter of opinion but I prefer the smooth rounded quality of the 64 version.

>dynamic lighting
Lighting looks way better on the n64.

>That's probably not helping the performance.
Again, why are you defending it? You're basically conceding that the engine is straining the Saturn.

What I really don't get it is why is Quake the hill you die on? There's so many games that you can defend for the Saturn. I love the system and think it has some of the best games. I don't care about multiplat ports, especially those of PC games, why does Saturn have to be "the best quake version"? It makes you look like an unhinged console fanboy. An ordinary person who understands nuance should be perfectly comfortable saying that some systems do some games better than others and some worse than others. You can acknowledge the awesome things the Saturn does without defending Quake.

>>7756838
Apparently entire parts of the scenery missing is unnoticeable if you're an N64 fanboy.
>>7756842
Because it's still a decent port for it's time? If you want to play the best running version of Quake it's not going to be on the N64 either, it's going to be on PC.
>It achieves this by warping textures, doesn't look good in motion.
This sentence makes no sense and shows you have no clue how the actual hardware works.
On Saturn texture warping is only going to happen as polygons approach the edge of the screen. It can be mitigated by subdividing polygons as they get closer to the camera, which Saturn Quake does.
>Matter of opinion but I prefer the smooth rounded quality of the 64 version.
Sure they're smoothed but the base texture quality crap. Saturn ones look a lot crisper.
>Lighting looks way better on the n64.
Where are the dynamic lighting effects from things like weapons fire, explosions, etc. on N64?
>What I really don't get it is why is Quake the hill you die on?
It's not. I'm simply pointing out that the port is not as bad as you try to claim it is. You're basically cherry picking a few spots here and there where the game chugs a bit, but completely ignoring the rest of the time it's running at a decent frame rate. In that same video you pulled your webm from the game is running at a stable frame rate for the majority of the video.

Honestly Quake is an interesting case as both versions make different compromises. N64 cuts levels that the Saturn keeps. N64 reduces geometry in certain spots where the Saturn maintains it closer to the PC version, but then may add a wall here or there to keep the game from drawing to big of an area. When compared to the PC version both versions suck, but Saturn comes off as the more interesting and impressive port. No one really talks or cares about the N64 port of Quake these days expect N64 fanboys who need to 1UP the Saturn, while Saturn Quake is still talked about because of how impressive it is.

>>7756876
>N64 reduces geometry in certain spots where the Saturn maintains it closer to the PC version, but then may add a wall here or there to keep the game from drawing to big of an area.
Actual unironic cult levels of doublethink.

>>7756885
How is that double think? Basically Saturn deals with the issue of having too much to draw by obscuring the view with another wall here and there, while N64 deals with it by just reducing the overall geometric detail of the entire room. You can pretty much see this just by comparing E1M1.

>>7756897
>How is that double think?
"The Saturn version doesn't reduce geometry, it simply adds walls massively simplifying the levels to reduce the polycount"

>>7756480
>Same with SNES to Mega Drive.
SNES actually had the superior looking games thanks to more colors on screen and frankly just more talented devs, just don't ask for more than a moderate amount of sprites unless you're a fan of painful slowdowns.

>>7756905
To reduce the polygon count per frame, not the overall polygon count of the entire room. As I said, it's a different approach to the same problem. N64's approach is reduce the overall level geometry resulting in rooms having more box like in appearance, while Saturn's is to keep as much of the Geometry as possible, but adding a wall here or there in troublesome spots to reduce how many polygons are being drawn per frame at certain choke points.

>>7756876
>This sentence makes no sense
Fine, I admit I don't know the exact hardware terminology and am probably using the wrong term, but I know what my eyes see. Maybe it doesn't warp but there's something off about it. I genuinely wish I could describe exactly what it is I see better but I think the videos speak for themselves.

>No one really talks or cares about the N64 port of Quake these days expect N64 fanboys who need to 1UP the Saturn, while Saturn Quake is still talked about because of how impressive it is.

You realize that's been you this entire thread right? This isn't even a thread about the Saturn. And in the Saturn thread you blew off on an original Saturn owner from back in the day just because he made a passing comment about not preferring the Saturn ports and then you started spamming buzzwords about cope and seething and vaseline. You've thrown words around like nintendrone and nintentoddler. Even in this conversation here and in the Saturn thread you've accused me of fanboying just because I own both consoles and both ports and like one over the other, while I've simultaneously defended the Saturn for lots of other games (including Hexen and Powerslave).

>Saturn comes off as the more interesting and impressive port.
Sure, it's technically impressive. It's impressive that it exists on the Saturn at all considering it didn't handle 3D as well as the other systems. But as for ports that I could genuinely pick up and play, it wouldn't be this. It's a curiosity and not much more. It's something that's cool to point to and say it exists, it's not better than the n64 version which is much more playable. I actually do pop in quake on my 64 and play through the whole game, I almost never fire up Saturn quake except for earlier today when I compared the two.

>>7756916
>while Saturn's is to keep as much of the Geometry as possible, but adding a wall here or there in troublesome spots to reduce how many polygons are being drawn per frame at certain choke points.
The fact this post was made 100% unironically is just incredible.

>>7756917
>You realize that's been you this entire thread right? This isn't even a thread about the Saturn.
No it's a troll thread to bait N64 fanboys and they took it like the idiots they are. I simply posted a 3 way comparison and the N64 fanboys immediately went "BUT SATURN QUAKE AND TOMB RAIDER ARE BAD!!!!!"
> And in the Saturn thread you blew off on an original Saturn owner from back in the day just because he made a passing comment about not preferring the Saturn ports and then you started spamming buzzwords about cope and seething and vaseline
That wasn't me, I don't use words like cope or seethe.
>You've thrown words around like nintendrone and nintentoddler.
Again, not me.
>you've accused me of fanboying
If you're the one that posted the deceiving webms then it's because you were being one. You posted those simply to go "Saturn Sucks N64 better." Which is something a fanboy would do.

I'm not saying Saturn Quake is better than N64 Quake. I never have. I'm simply saying objectively there's things both ports are doing that can be seen as a pro or con over the other. Saturn wins in overall level geometry, texture quality, and lighting effects. N64 wins in overall performance, multiplayer, and being on the actual Quake engine. Both are a mixed bag on levels as they're both missing levels, but they're missing different ones. Saturn it's the secret levels, N64 it's some of the campaign levels.

>>7756924
The fact you fail at reading so hard that you can't tell the difference between polygons per frame and overall polygons per level is just incredible.

>>7756954
>deceiving webms
Wrong and delusional or a liar.
https://streamable.com/tpyto2
>Saturn wins in overall level geometry, texture quality, and lighting effects
Unfathomably objectively delusional.

>>7756906
>SNES actually had the superior looking games thanks to more colors on screen
SNES had a lower resolution and had to squash enemies down to size which generally looked janky.
>just don't ask for more than a moderate amount of sprites
This is why Mega Drive looks nicer. Look at games like Comix Zone where enemies are being drawn into battle and panels are being ripped apart. It gives the game life and looks amazing.

>>7756480
I hate you and your threads

>>7756954
Is this not you? >>7754065 because this person types like you, uses the vaseline meme, and is as hostile as you are being here. And everybody will see that this response was made to some random light hearted comment from a Saturn owner who just happened to prefer the n64 version of the game. Literally everybody in that thread is a Saturn fanboy, so if we like the n64 version of a game better that's saying something.

>If you're the one that posted the deceiving webms then it's because you were being one.
No I'm the guy that posted my TV after you accused me of lying about owning either game. You can read your comments in that thread. I didn't post any webms here either.

>I'm simply saying objectively there's things both ports are doing that can be seen as a pro or con over the other.
You only just changed your tune in this conversation, everybody can see what you said in the other thread if anybody actually cares enough to. Or check the archive since you've been talking about this for weeks now.

>>7756968
This guy has been desperately trying to defend the shitty Saturn port of Quake for years now. My theory is he got the idea from a semi popular youtube video that calls it a "miracle port". He gets BTFO every time and just comes back saying the same delusional shit every time. What a specimen.

>>7756656
Screenshots are pointless most of the time anyway, especially as most PlayStation environments resemble an episode of crossroads (wobble-o-vision).

>>7756480
>>7755956
Nice doctored screenshot. KYS.

>n64 better hurr
Shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up.

>>7756984
The whole "Saturn can't do 3D" is a meme, technically it was probably more powerful the PlayStation. The problem was that it took a lot of effort to achieve. The PlayStation had lighting and transparency effects built in that devs could just turn on with the flick of a switch - in those terms you could argue that it was more powerful than the Saturn.

The quake port is impressive but the sheer effort that it took to get running probably explains why devs preferred working with the PlayStation. Obviously this tends to upset some people on here.

>>7756518
n64 is a clear winner here

>>7757130
It's a reskin mod. Gamers have been modding PSX games since the 90ies you zoomer.

>>7757175
>>>
> Anonymous 05/14/21(Fri)22:59:08 No.7756510▶
>File: 64dd_720px.jpg (69 KB, 720x720)
>>>7756498
>I've got to get DD games otherwise it would make N64 look even worse.
gee, it's almost like mods that replace the textures and screenbuffer size with higher res than the system could actually handle don't count as a valid comparison between the systems
who would have thought?

>>7757186
No different from a Super FX chip. You can continue to cry about emulation or you could post some screen shots for or against N64.

>>7757167
>crippled geometry coprocessor
>awful fill
>forward texture mapping
the saturn was in fact bad at 3d, this should not be controversial after all these years

>>7756480
>Why was Nintendo 64 unable to keep up to PSX at all?
Lack of talent by their first party developers.

>>7757197
if it's no different from a Super FX chip how do I play the game with those textures at that output resolution on my original PlayStation?
oh, wait, I can't. you're the level of brainlet who back in the 90s would have claimed consoles were or weren't superior based on how many "bits" they had, or that later would have claimed the amount of RAM on a PC video card was the sole determining factor for how capable it was.
have you considered ending your life? if your brain hasn't developed to the point of being mostly functional yet, it's never happening. at the very least your social worker should be looking into forced sterilization as a safeguard against passing on your genes when the lack of human touch or other personal interaction eventually leads you to wander outside and rape someone.

>>7757224
>oh, wait, I can't.
Get some soldering skills.
>Go outside have sex
When you can come up with some insults you didn't jack from 4chan get back to me.

>>7757259
>Get some soldering skills.
Then it wouldn't be original. Get some reading comprehension skills.
Your mother and I are so disappointed, but the church convinced us we were all going to hell if she went through with the procedure.

>>7757167
>technically it was probably more powerful the PlayStation
delusional shiturn fanboys

>>7756510
*SIGH*
You got me the F-Zero expansion kit. The expansion kit Andy! I NEED THE GAME! If I don't have the game what am I supposed to expand upon?

>>7756480
I have not got too much experience with the n64 but one thing i have noticed from what screen shots i have seen it often
seems that levels have less geometry than ps1 or saturn. I think this might be to do with perspective correction. N64 can tolerate large polygons whilst ps1 and saturn are forced to use small polygons. If you are allready burning polygons might as well make them into more interesting level geometry.

You should use real hardware to demonstrate how the games really run on the real hardware. A game like this is purpose built for the N64 which is made for piping 3D through. This is how purpose built games run on the console and how they look.

>>7757336
One has an actual skybox texture to be looked at and the other does not.

>>7757287
>Your mother and I are so disappointed
You're older than me? Hilarious. Going to post your father ID again to prove it?
>>7757401
>and how they look.
Looks pretty bad.

>>7756637
in this still the Saturn looks best with the nicest colors, but when they start running all 3 fall apart. Burning Rangers runs like the Saturn is going to give up at any moment with lots of visual glitches, MGS1 is dark and full of dither if you're not playing via composite and Ocarina is blurry and runs like at 20 frames per second

all 3 are good games for their systems sure, but i don't know why fanboys try so hard to dismiss the competition (especially tendies) during that gen when the first console with decent all-around 3D capabilities was the Sega Dreamcast (soon followed by the Sony PlayStation 2 and the Nintendo GameCube)

>>7756637
not pictured: burning ranger's godawful framerate and unusually conspicuous polygon culling issues

>>7756480
N64 looks better to me.

>>7756480
Dreamcast chad here

>>7757317
Something tells me that you didn't manage to get past that line..

>>7757214
Snap

>>7757401
>You should use real hardware to demonstrate how the games really run on the real hardware
Most people on here have never even seen real hardware in real life. Their only experience of these systems is through emulation, that's the reason why they spout such utter bullshit.

>>7757396
See
>>7756518

The PS1 port actually has smaller levels than the N64 game. There are entire land masses and objects missing in the PS1 game like bridges and hills, you can really see this in pic related: these are supposed to be the same areas. Overall as a general console trend, PS1 maps tended to be shorter than N64 maps.

>>7757413
>Looks pretty bad.
That's just how N64 games look. Lots of fog, soft and muddy visuals and very choppy framerates.

>>7757567
Dreamcast Master Race for the win.

>>7757630
Wow that game really was butchered, I would think most of the changes were due to having half the ram. Shame really because what did remain looks considerably better on the ps1, n64 textures really are complete mush.

I would think a much more faithful port should be possible, but it would require some kind of dynamic level chunk system to work around to serious lack of memory.

>>7756518
Wow the PS1 version couldn't have moving text for what reason? When the slaves on board counter appears it actually ticks over on the N64, making up the joke basically. That's lost in the PS1 version.

>>7757912
>n64 textures really are complete mush.
Disagree, even the textures are better and more defined. You can actually see the flowers in the grass for instance on the n64, the cartoonish ripples in the water, the individual cracks in the rocky walls and so on.

>>7758092
You know, I am starting to get the feeling that not all humans see the same way. Because I feel like I am arguing against someone who is adamant the sky is green. All I see on the n64 side is mush, that is all I can see.

Noooo not the texture filterinos! I want my blocky pixel! Anti aliasing? Nooo I want soulful jaggies

>>7756480
F Zero X looks better

>>7758157
n64 games look absolutely dreadful without texture filtering I don't know why you'd ever want it off
I also like to turn it on when I play Playstation games on my PS2

The N64 was actually more powerful,
But it was bottlenecked af because it used cartridges with low storage capacity, so devs couldn't use many assets

>>7758165
Based.

>>7758170
that's not what bottlenecked it

>>7756480
>NES was inferior to SMS yet still had good looking games. Same with SNES to Mega Drive
Certainly not in the library of games.

>>7756687
>video composhit
take this one with component on CRT

>>7757912
>I would think most of the changes were due to having half the ram
Saying that the PS1 has "half the ram" compared to the N64 is misleading. Consider the following:

N64:
- 4+0.5 MB memory (expandable to 8+1 MB)*
* The extra 0.5-1 MB is hidden from the software and used implicitly to support anti-aliasing.

PS1:
- 2 MB main memory
- 1 MB video memory
- 512 KB audio memory

As you can see, the PS1 has multiple specialized areas of memory. This contrasts with the N64's more unified approach. In total, the PS1 has just over 3/4 as much memory compared to the N64 (assuming no memory expansion pak).

>>7758218
look at that sexy man, he's just my type.

>he thinks PS1 games look good

>>7758171
Right unironically looks better.

>>7758241

>>7756754
>>7756758
not saying ones outright better than the other but saturn quake definitely does some thing better than the N64 version

>>7758531
what are you seeing in this image that looks better than the N64 version? also I love how every bullshot of this game neglects to mention that you can TURN OFF THE TEXTURE FILTERING IN THE N64 VERSION IN THE OPTIONS MENU. have you faggots ever even played these games?

>>7758541
ceiling and texture alignment.
I've completed Saturn Quake and own n64 quake. I understand you can disable texture filtering.
Saturn Quake just does something for me. Personal opinion.

>>7756480
Only one of those games have actual 3D physics and runs at 60 fps.

>>7758569
>ceiling and texture alignment.
you mean the thing the Saturn version can't do correctly? if you walk by a wall in the Saturn version it will warp like a fish eye lense because Saturn can't do perspective correction. I also like how you chose the absolute worst possible picture of the N64 version because you're a disingenuous faggot. pic related is what the N64 version actually looks like, and this isn't even with texture filtering disabled. I don't really know what the Saturn version "does" for you either, since it's not even Quake, it's a complete piece of fucking shit that doesn't even run on the Quake engine, has 2D sprites for weapon "models", has no multiplayer, had 30% of the level geometry removed or altered to reduce draw distance, and has enemy models that look like retarded green gremlins. oh, and it runs at 8fps. they completely shit on everything that makes Quake great and then added in some tacky dynamic lighting effects and a reddit-tier hidden comic book to compensate. you cannot get more hipster and fucking gay than thinking Saturn Quake is good.

>>7758624
>stranger on the internet can't accept another strangers opinion.
cope.

>>7756480
> F-Zero X
Top Gear Rally or Beetle Adventure Racing shit all over anything the Playstation or Saturn could do.

>>7758760
>>7758624

The N64 version of quake was the best, Saturn was the worst.

>>7758531
Quake 64 is missing tons of level geometry compared to the Saturn version. They had to butcher the levels to get them to run on the 64.

They also had to reuse a bunch of textures due to the N64's pitiful amount of texture memory. Quake 64 runs better than Saturn Quake, but it's significantly less accurate to the PC original.

>>7758872
>the N64's pitiful amount of texture memory
???

>>7758918
4kb texture cache

>>7758943
It's just a texture cache. It's also fast enough to handle refilling many times per frame, so 4 KB is all you really need. Keep in mind that the PS1's texture cache is only half that size.

>>7758624
I called this anon gay like a year ago and he can't get over it lol

>>7756689
>using a game with prerendered graphics to respond to a complaint about vertices

>Quake on consoles
What's wrong with you?

>>7759024
ones got to be better than the other

>>7756584
I played that game. And it does not look like that.

>>7758136
You're being hyperbolic and just straight up unfair to the 64, because of internal biases.

>>7758872
?????? The Saturn reuses those same textures in that screenshot. That's just how the level is designed?

>>7758772
Both N64 games look and play worse than what Saturn has to offer.

>>7759219
Fun fact, Sega Rally's use of different grip characteristics for each vehicle on different surfaces (more grip on asphalt, less grip on grass, even less grip on dirt or mud, etc) was what got Codemasters interested in making a "realistic" rally game, which ended up being the first Colin McRae Rally.

>>7759231
Virtua Fighter in the arcade was what convinced Sony to heavily push the 3D capabilities of the PS1. Sega has a habit of inspiring the rest of the game industry.

>>7756480
world driver championship

>>7758760
>can't provide an actual argument
cope.

>>7759012
you've been obsessing over an anonymous person on the internet for a year? sounds like he cucked you lol

>>7758872
>They had to butcher the levels to get them to run on the 64.
Totally unlike the Saturn version, that's just like the PC ori- >>7756821

>>7759662
The Saturn version will rarely add geometry to make culling easier so the engine can render less depending on where the player camera is (this is an old .bsp trick), but it's nowhere near as bad as the straight removal of practically every piece of extra geometry that Quake 64 removed. There are Doom maps with more complex architecture than Quake 64. It's an embarassment.

>>7758624
based

>>7759012
fag lol

>>7759681
>The Saturn version will rarely add geometry to make culling easier so the engine can render less depending on where the player camera is
The levels are massively simplified and remade to be smaller and more compact. Just face reality you delusional retard.

Think this looks pretty nice

>>7756484
>>7756501
Here's your reply since I feel bad for lonely retards

>>7758772

>be zoomer
>never play original hardware
>play emulator
>Why is original hardware like that?
>compare vastly different games

>>7756584
>Nintendrones
>Jerkops, HexBox
Literally sonichu level of autism

>>7760742
>that screenshot

>>7756715
>Dude it's just like the PC version.webm

Zoomer confirmed. In 1996 most people were still running decent to higher end 486 based PCs, which would only play Quake at 320x200 with the viewport reduced to the size of a postage stamp. An "enthusiast" might have a Pentium 60 or P100, which would run Quake decently but still have major framerate drops.

The only way to run Quake with a consistent framerate on machines at the time was with the then bleeding edge Penium 166, which had an MSRP of over $600 at the time, so it was pretty rare in home PCs. It was the Crysis of its time.

Meanwhile, by the time Quake launched for the Saturn, the system was already discounted to $199. It's the same choice people make now, you either pay out the ass for a PC and get the best experience, or you pay less for a console and get a compromise that still runs and plays ok but isn't as good.

>>7760897
yep, totally... in 1996 only enthusiasts had processors made in 1993

>>7760897
>bleeding edge Penium 166
kek

>>7760897
>The only way to run Quake with a consistent framerate on machines at the time was with the then bleeding edge Penium 166

>>7760991
It's pretty clear that you're missing the point, you had to have a very nice PC in 1996 to get 30fps at a measly 320x200 resolution in Quake.

Or you could have just waited a year and spent $200 on a Saturn instead.

>>7761115
Bullshit you dumb faggot, look up literally any benchmarks from that era. Why would you lie on an anonymous imageboard?

>>7761135
>Or you could have just waited a year and spent $200 on a Saturn instead
To play a completely gimped version of Quake. Considering the sales of the Saturn, nobody was retarded enough to do that.

>>7761141
Your webm makes the Saturn port look pretty good, actually. Unless you're complaining about the braindead AI, which I am sorry to inform you is also included in the PC version.

>>7761115
>speeding up the video to make it seem like it has better fps
lmao you pc cucks are unbelievably pathetic

>>7761140
>look up literally any benchmarks from that era
How about this one? >>7760897
Lets see here: webm = 33.8, benchmark = 32.70
>>7761148
>Your webm makes the Saturn port look pretty good, actually
You're literally fucking retar-
>>7761149
Nevermind I found the dumbest person ITT.

>>7761115
Oh, instead of having to have a bleeding edge Pentium 166MHz to get 30fps, you could do it on an almost as bleeding edge Pentium 133MHz, bing zing you got there, pal

> “When the cost of components such as memory chips or processors drops rapidly, a company that maintains about 30 days of inventory is able to quickly pass along those savings in the form of lower prices by the end of the month,” Chairman Michael Dell said.

> For example, the OptiPlex G 5133 model now costs $2,414, down from $3,021, for a PC running a 133-MHz Pentium processor.

That was in May of 1996, less than one month before Quake released. If you think the average person had a $3k PC at the time than you are a retard.

>>7761187
>If you think the average person had a $3k PC at the time than you are a retard.
If you think the average person even considered buying a Saturn at any moment in the 90's you are a retard.

ITT assblasted nintedo faggots kek

>>7761236
>>7761253
lol the perfect followup comment

Nintenyearolds are still butthurt about how shitty the N64 was 25 years later. Grow up you stupid faggots.

>>7761278
>Grow up you stupid faggots.
It's kinda funny, there are people nowadays who are working on getting full motion video working on older consoles that never typically supported it. The Sega Genesis has episodes of X-Men the Animated Series playable on it. The N64 has episodes of Spongebob. Just putting that out there.

>>7761278
the saturn was a failure lol

>>7756906
You are generally correct. The only reason I'm not calling OP a retard is because several multiplat games were indeed better on Genesis, but as always, the lead platforms during development usually are the best way to play and it's not uniquely a 16-bit issue. You can cherrypick 'til the cows come home, but at the end of the day, both are better depending on the game you're playing.

>>7761302
>Saturn was panned on release but has gained a cult following years later
>N64 was praised but now people accept that it was a blurry piece of shit
The seethe and cope from nintendies in this thread is absolutely stupendous.

>>7761148
based
>>7761153
cringe

Imagine defending the Saturn.
Segafags have no standards.

>>7761287
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1H_88Vmh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9WzrJ5OyWA

Shit like this paved the way. It's amazing what you can do on older systems when you remove storage limitations.

>>7756584
>Boring ass simulation game
Yawn, give me Ridge Racer Type 4 any day

>>7763592
You into T-girls as well?

N64 will never look good to me solely because of its texture mapping.

>>7761324
They are basically upset that sony "betrayed" nintendo and have held a grudge for two decades.

>>7758624
the only thing you had to do was post this webm

we got too cocky Nintendo bros

https://youtu.be/HDl9IWzfnQA?t=290

>>7758170
you could actually use more assets because you could stream them from the cartridge on real time

>>7756637
the 3 of them look like shit, all of them falls short on something
and tolerable 3d started on the 6th gen (dc)

The PS1's hardware was weaker than the N64, it's just that the PS1's flaws can be fixed with emulation and the N64's cannot

>>7764000
It's worse than that - emulating N64 games makes them look worse if you're not careful. It's too easy to use broken texture filtering.

>>7758170
This is what happens when you try to paraphrase something that you read in an other thread, while having no knowledge of what you're talking about.

>>7764000
n64s flaws are fixed by using an actual TV and not some lcd piece of shit

>>7764016
n64 flaws can only be fixed by setting the damn ugly brick on fire.

>>7756484
fpbp

>>7764016
Its actually not that bad on an LCD TV if it supports 240p. If you TV can't and is displaying at 480i instead, its going to look like utter shit.
Also getting an RGB mod is a huge leap over composhite.
The problem is that people are too retarded to understand this. But then again, you also need to take in to account that you're dealing with people who are plugging retro hardware in to a 60-70" modern TV set and wondering why it looks shit.

>>7763743
That doesn't look retro to me.

>>7756715
That webm shows off the colored lighting that was exclusive to the Saturn version. Even the PC version didn't have it.

>>7756701
The draw distance on the Saturn version of Tomb Raider is significantly farther than the PS1 version. In that area on the PS1 you can barely see halfway through that cavern.

>>7764389
With a lot of consoles I think you can get away with not playing them in their native resolution, but the 64 in particular really is a product of its era and if there are no mods you really have to just use a CRT or an appropriate LCD with 240p. An era appropriate TV removes the vast majority of blur, and rounds out the blocky appearance that an emulator would give

>>7767171
I hate Saturn quake but will give you that between Saturn and PS1 Saturn has better draw distance.

Funny enough, the pros and cons of Saturn quake tend to hold up against a lot of games across consoles. Wipeout for Saturn is a bit jankier than PS1/N64 but it has the largest amount of draw distance.

>>7756480
Only on /vr/ could weak old bait get this many replies

>>7767223
Maybe it's time to kill the board.

>>7767228
Maybe it's time you kill yourself.

>>7767223
As a Nintendo fan all you had to do was provide a single screenshot that doesn't look like absolute trash but you can't do that as this is whats considered good on N64.

>>7756637
>low res textures vs flat square polygons
Hmmm

>>7767427
>As a Nintendo fan
As a person who likes video games, you are a colossal faggot

>>7767521
If you were a true video game fan then you will openly shit on N64 and even SNES occasionally for being overhyped machines.

>>7767531
No I wouldn’t because I actually play games

>>7763776
It upsets me that there was never a truly faithful port of this game. The ps1 and N64 versions tossed out the Desert and Forest Realms for 2 new ones, and the Dreamcast version redesigned all the stages... on top of being a somewhat shoddy port.

>>7767536
When you play as many SNES and N64 games as I have you will learn how shit they are compared to Saturn, PSX, Mega Drive.

>>7767621
Uh huh, sure you do, you’re totally not just shitposting

>>7767621
>I'm going to play most of these two consoles libraries just to shit on them
the absolute state

>>7756480
Yall talk shit but N64 had like no load times compared to PS.
Looking back PS had fucking soul tho.

>>7756480
Soul: Soulless

>>7758968
>It's just a texture cache. It's also fast enough to handle refilling many times per frame
No it isn't. The N64 has no memory controller, remember, so every single fetch is an obtrusive overhead.
>>7758872
Quake 64's limitations stem from being jammed into an 8MB cartridges due to shitty cart pricing monopolies.

>>7767205
Results with the N64 HDMI mod's deblur mode can look pretty crisp, though obviously it's not going to give the illusion of smoother geometry like the anti-aliasing was meant to in the first place. Still often more pleasing than the smeary look though and there's something kind of novel about getting an image out of it that looks much more PS1, but with the N64's temporal stability thanks to the higher precision z-buffer.

>>7767205
Also, you really need an OG controller. Its one system where you just need the OG hardware. This is exactly the reason why I picked one up with a bunch of games around 7-8 years ago while they were cheap.

>>7756684
>vertices can't stay still.
soul

>>7767205
Parallel is the only emulator that’s accurate to the look of N64

>>7767626
Bought both SNES and 64 on release. Sony had no past track record so I didn't see the point in buying one back then.
>>7767637
It's more I started out as a SNES, N64 fan boy only to realise how shitty N64 games were once I got other systems. When you get to play Unreal, Quake on Dreamcast and then try to go back to N64 you see Perfect Dark doesn't even come close.

>>7767810
>n64 on top
I rest my case

>>7767810
>When you get to play Unreal, Quake on Dreamcast and then try to go back to N64 you see Perfect Dark doesn't even come close
man you suck, who the fuck plays those games on consoles, not only that but neither of those games has objective based mission like PD and Goldeneye

>>7767813
Take back what you said or I'm going to smash that 64 into a thousand pieces.

>>7767816
>objective based mission

>>7767818
and just like that, you lost any credibility you had

>>7767819
>and just like that, you lost any credibility you had
Coming from a guy who considered FPS running at 5 frames per second superior to Quake and Unreal.

>>7767827
Oh, where did I say that?

I haven't played either of those games but f zero HAS to be more fun though, it just has to

>>7767621
>he thinks the memedrive is better than chadnes
oh no he's retarded

>>7768903
Nes was a good console. I only talk smack about SNES and 64.

>>7756480
>Why was Nintendo 64 unable to keep up to PSX at all?
disk vs cartridge
basically it to be honest in terms of hardware
software no idea haven't looked through documentation but I know n64 was on the more advanced side save for the cartridge limitation
love the ps1 the more though

>>7770019
ok retard