/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7734191
Anon, just go play your games.

>>7734191
Yes it is and you didn't really beat the game if you do.

>>7734191
It is, but don't worry about what people on the internet say. You didn't technically beat it, but if you had fun, you had fun. Although I'd say you're robbing yourself of the satisfaction of beating a well designed game legit.

>>7734191
Yes. Next.

>>7734221
Coke or Pepsi?

>>7734224
Neither. Only water and vodka.

Yes, but who cares?

>>7734191
Yes, it is, which is why i've refused to do it for the longest time, because it feels like me beating the game with it isn't "Legit", however that's just me being autistic, don't let yourself lose on some good fun due to worrying too much about something whose main point is fun, OP.

>>7734224
>feminine fizzy water
Next.

Is it cheating to play snes games on a computer keyboard?

>>7734195
no

>>7734191
If it is, then we've been cheating since the 1980s.

>>7734191
but if the re-release DOES have a save feature then what

>>7734191
I'm so fucking tired of this thread

Is it cheating if I use cheats?

>>7734401
This. Its going to end the same way it always does by going into 200+ replies with 2-3 autists duking it out.

>>7734401
>I'm so fucking tired

>>7734203
But who actually determines if I 'beat' a game? Do I get some kind of achievements unlocked on /vr/ or something? Do I have a gamerscore?

In other words, who gives a shit?

>>7734227
they water down vodka, retard. it's horribly inefficient and a waste of money to have both. unless you have something 190 proof you have almost a half bottle of water in any given bottle of vodka

>>7734208
>well designed game
I was save scumming the fuck out of Sword of Vermilion. No regrets. Most retro games are not "well designed"

>>7734195
what's the point if I don't know whether I actually beat them?

>>7734409
seems like the developers intended to put those cheats in

>>7734191
doing anything that doesn't make the game harder is pretty much cheating.

>>7734195
FPBP

>>7735387
JUST PLAY THE GAMES, ANON. It's not work and it's not a checklist. Stop listening to boomers who insist you have to play it the "right" way or it doesn't "count." None of that matters - you should just enjoy it.

>>7734191
Yes. It's also cheating to post on an 18+ board when you're 12.

>>7735051
>B-b-but who a-actually d-determines!

The games' rules and player boundaries you fucking faggot. No matter how hard you try relativise and do mental gymnastics in order to cope: YOU. DIDN'T. BEAT. THE. GAME.

>>7736449

>>7734191
Not if you don't use the load feature.

>>7734191
Do you get continues? If not, yeah, its cheating but games that don't even give you that are garbage. Unless of course, its built in to the game concept specifically, like a rogue like.

>>7734191
This thread again. Here, of all places, you're always going to get the same responses.
- People saying no because you should just enjoy what you enjoy however you enjoy it
- People saying no because games made during the rental wars are "unfair"
- People saying it's cheating/you technically didn't beat it if you use it
- People saying you technically didn't beat the game unless you play on original hardware

If it’s a game that requires you to enter a long password to start at a certain level then it’s fine imo to use save states

>>7736973
I agree, with a lot of older games that use passwords to continue from where you left off, instead of a more modern save system, which wasn't common before the 5th generation of consoles, savestates don't take away the legitimacy of the playthrough at all, as long as they're used at the place that the password would take you of course, because in this case you're essentially just skipping the act of inputting the password everytime you lose, which can be a pain depending on how long the password is.

>>7736953
You're going to get these answers anywhere
>Is it excusable to cheat in some video games?
Yes it is. Sometimes the design is blatantly unfair. Even if it's unfair it's perfectly valid to want to explore the design, but acknowledge own lack of skill.
>Is it okay to cheat in games with predatory design?
By all means there's always that one shitty game that completely robs the player of opportunities to practice and master the mechanics organically.
>But is it cheating? Have I beaten the game if I used savestates
Yes it is, you can't load a savestate on the original unmodified hardware. And yes you still beat it - with cheating. Which means you lost the opportunity to beat it blind, and that's on you. That's your loss. It'd be like saying that you experienced the game while your uncle was playing it for you. Not quite on the same level as anyone capable of doing it entirely on his own.
>But does it have to be on the original hardware to count?
Only a narcissistic autist nintoddler would claim this. At this point it becomes more about status and some kind of pride that despite being a shitter at games you were a proud nintendo redditor, and how important it is to you that you went out of your way to purchase that piece of plastic during the time it came out. Anyone arguing this has clear ego problems and associates his sense of self with companies that only care about pushing their product down his throat.

>>7734191
No, I sometimes download save states if I'm too lazy too finish the game. It's my game.

>>7737016
This is about where I draw the line too, but I don't mind if others abuse them. If you do it like this, you get the benefit of newer technology and skipping the worthless experience of typing in passwords without actually taking away from the challenge / repetition-based pacing like you would by using them freely. I'll also use save states for games where I'd otherwise just leave the console on, but I won't reload from them beyond that first time so I don't circumvent however the game deals with deaths and continues.

>>7736449
> YOU. DIDN'T. BEAT. THE. GAME.

Why are boomers so invested in this? No one cares. No one. It's not a job. I just want to understand why the fact that other people cheating at single player games upsets you to this degree.

>>7735051
Losers. Losers give a shit. Even back in the day me and the boys would use the game genie on Mario 3 so we could be frog mario forever.

>>7735280
>I was save scumming the fuck out of Sword of Vermilion. No regrets. Most retro games are not "well designed"
Lol this. I just finished Ecco the Dolphin on the Sega Genesis. The original, hardest one. I properly beat it on the sega CD several years ago, that one they toned the difficulty down a little. But this cocksucker? Fuck, for the last few levels I was using the save state system on my everdrive and scumed the FUCK out of it.
The devs have repeatedly, openly, and of their own free will admitted that they went too far with the artificial difficulty. They were worried about rental sales back then, and wanted to increase the odds of repeat rentals, so they intentionally shitfucked the player with every cheap trick they could.
And it was STILL a bitch.

If I could find some game genie/PAR codes that halved the air usage and damage taken, I wouldn't have used save states, but alas it was not to be.

The mechanics and flow were not designed for save states so the game ends up less fun then when using them. You can tell the save staters are having less fun because the people that play these games without save states go on to become fanatics of the genre while the people that do use save states are less into the genre.

They also develop a complex where they need to constantly bitch online about 'difficulty' and 'fairness' because the lack of legitmacy bites at them.

>>7734191
Yes but cheating in single-player games is based and soulful. Many old video games came in with cheat codes for a reason.

>>7737545
>They were worried about rental sales back then, and wanted to increase the odds of repeat rentals

This is historical revionism. Japs made rentals illegal in their own country so they didn't care about sales there. The way rentals worked in the West was the Japs sold a pricey cartridge to them that came with special permission to be rented out. How often and how many times it was rented out had zero impact on their sales. They had little finicial incentives to care about rental sales, certainly not enough to base the entire game design around it.

What you are doing is historical revionism in the name of feeling legitmate about cheating on a video game. You're a fucking neuortic.

>>7737586
https://twitter.com/edannunziata/status/285469578635640832
Think I'll listen to the dev's own words than your own personal fanfiction.

>>7734191
>
It's only "cheating" in the sense of cheating yourself out of the terrible intended experience of the devs

>>7737586
You're right, they didn't care. They not-cared so hard that they tried to make rentals illegal in the US. That's just how much they didn't care.

>>7737602
>this one western game developer said he cared abut game rentals
>nevermind that the japs were operating on completly different economic states were rentals mattered less to them
>because this one western developer cared about game developers that means all developers across all countries and all games did

>>7737613
source? This would be good to drop in an argument

>>7737586
>What you are doing is historical revionism in the name of feeling legitmate about cheating on a video game. You're a fucking neuortic.
Bruh. A simple "I disagree and here's why" would have been fine.
The devs, Ed himself even, have popped up in the comments section of a bunch of youtube vids flat-out saying "We were worried about rental sales, so we jacked-up the difficulty". Ever version of the first game had some part of it's difficulty toned down after the original. The jap version had checkpoints added to "welcome to the machine".
>You're a fucking neuortic
Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh. It's video games. Ones and Zeros on a cartridge.

>>7737648
Imagine you base your identity around playing video games (yes there are people like this). Imagine you're a loser in real life but you can be a winner in games (yes there are also people like this).

You play your game you decide to cheat at it. You beat it. Then you find out there are people younger then you that not only didn't have to cheat, are much more skilled then you, but look upon the way you played the game as inferior. Your sanctuary has been shattered and you're a loser even in the video game world.

That's what gets these people neurotic. Just look them bitch about the difficulty like the developer is personally attacking them.

It's the same behavior pattern that makes people scream to the heavens that they are not bad at League of Legends but it is the fault of their team mates/the match making/the hero balance. They are emotionally invested in feeling 'good' at the video game to the point where anything that deligitimizes their status in the game is a personal attack.

>>7737641
The discussion was about Ecco specifically, not retro vidya as a whole. As for banning rental games: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1990-09-19-1990262004-story.html.. In fact, Nintendo helped fund the movement to get rentals banned in Japan too.
Though games were hard not because of rentals but because they wanted to be like arcade games, which were difficult to get money.

>>7737683
Adding onto this, the rental business lasted until like the early 00s and by then most video games were way easier. It's just the results of console gaming's arcade roots.

Not really trying to defend one side or the other in this discussion, but the whole talk about rental services influencing game difficulty reminded me of these videos about The Lion King game from the 90's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kILeyo1iv0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csDgDuiu2yk

>>7737683
>>7737696
I'd agree with so long as "difficult so it can get money" is stipulated with "but fair". Arcade customers could quickly tell which games were just hard as balls and which ones were just poorly and the hard but fair ones earned many quarters while the cheap ones (most Western arcade game games) were removed from the floor space to make room for other cabnits.

The arcade design had its followers. But it ultimatly died for two reasons. First was a bad reputation from quarter feeders and shitters who just assumed all games were 'cheap. The second was the rise of casual gamers starting with the ps1/n64 era. They were not interested in difficult at all. They wanted a 3D world to explore, a story to be told to them, or any number of things other then a brutal game with punishing difficulty and thats what the market gave them.

>>7737683
This link only takes me to the baltimore sun homepage

>>7737670
>Just look them bitch about the difficulty like the developer is personally attacking them.
Wut? I haven't seen this here, or anywhere else. Ever. I know -I- didn't feel "personally attacked" playing ecco. I felt a bit stupid for wasting time on something that I knew was needlessly difficult, but I at no point felt attacked by some programmers I never met. I know the fans of the series don't hold any ill will to the devs, it's all kind of an in-joke at this point.
Besides, I've already beat all the games in the series "legit" bitd, why not take the easy way the second time around and enjoy the atmosphere, sans pressure?

Who cares about beating artificial difficulty "fairly"?

The real problem with save states is that if you use them like quick save/load, they completely break the flow of the game (just like normal quick save/load).

>>7737723
Oh yeah this is true though this method of quality control didn't really work in the west since arcades were more spread out so mediocre games could make lots of money. If Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter were raking in the money for your small arcade, then there's not much incentive to bring in KoF and risk losing money. I can see why the whole "quartermuncher" mentality lives on in the west even if it's not completely true.

>>7737728
Weird, I'll c/p the relevant parts:

>The committee approved a bill banning the rental of computer software, but a clause in the legislation allows for the rental of video games such as those made by Nintendo.

>Blockbuster and Nintendo have been battling for a year over whether the video rental chain should be able to rent out Nintendo's games.

>Nintendo, based in Japan, says rentals are cutting into the sales of its games and amount to copyright infringement. Nintendo has said it expects to sell 70 million games this year.

>A spokesman for Nintendo of America in Seattle said yesterday's vote was "not consequential" because the House and the Senate must now put together a final bill.

>"This is a long way from being a law," Richard Lindner said.

>>7734191
I come from a PC perspective and I don't give a shit about the ability to save anywhere.
I don't give a shit about 1cc but it's cool if you do.

>>7737545
based and utilitarian pilled

>tfw

At the exact point I turned around I thought "wait wouldn't this kill me in water?" but it was too late since I had already shot it.

Congratulations, anon. You beat the game without savestates. What a grand life achievement.
You get: Nothing. Maybe the realization that your time on this Earth is limited and it doesn't matter if you're good at digital entertainment, or if you enjoy it better if you do use them. You'll forget you argued about it by tomorrow morning.

This thread is a reminder that you shouldn't be playing american retro games released on consoles because they had stupid difficulty just to force people to rent the game many times to finish it.

>>7737823
>artificial difficulty
that's not a thing

>>7738586
You can make games much much harder and pixel perfect to force failing.
You need to cope with the fact retro games were meant to be challenging and you were meant not to be afraid to start over, then git gud. Scrub.