/vr/ - Retro Games

It's cool when you can beat your old time. Might have some medical benefits I'm not seeing.

>>768578
Speedrunning can help cure cancer.

For autists and people on the spectrum.

If its an honest to god speedrun, awesome. But those tool assisted things are just pointless

I enjoy watching execution based ones and I enjoy reading the explanations for RPGs.

>>768603
Especially when done live and to music!!
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOt6EGgBnQs

Sometimes it's interesting to see how little is usually needed to "finish" the game and observe skilled players improving their runs and figuring out new strategies. It's more fun too see them fail though.

and as >>768603 said tool assisted runs are pointless, but hey, at least all autists are busy together at their Twitch channels or wherever

>>768554
I'd speed run my dick into her vagina.

If you gather my meaning.

>>768603

Tool assisted is usually done for three reasons:

-To make a speedrun more concise and thus easier to watch for non-aficianados
-To manipulate luck factors to ensure the desired outcome
-To preform extremely difficult frame-perfect tricks

Only the last one is a real cop-out, and to be fair not everyone has the skill to pull off several 1-frame tricks. That being said tool assisted runs are not necessarily easier than regular speedruns because they're often done and redone frame by frame far more times than normal.

They have their place, and if it makes you feel better some legitimate tricks were only ever found because of tool assisted runs.

I like watching speedruns just to see how shortcuts [glitches] were done, and such. I like longplays, as well.

>>768659
A speedrun should come from being good at the game, not manipulating the crap out of it in a way that no game was ever intended. Why not just use a game genie or something if you're going to fuck around like that? That shit isn't impressive

>>768659
>To make a speedrun more concise
...isn't that kind of redundant? It's a speedrun!

>>768650
I still like TAS because it demonstrates how stupidly you can break some games if given perfect performance.

I don't care about the hits against it, watching Poketrainer win the League Championship by walking into his kitchen will never cease to amuse me.

>>768682
Who thinks TAS is a sign of impressive skill? Maybe me when I was younger and thought that an old TAS of SMB3 was a legit video, but not nowadays.

I'm starting to hate tool assisted speed runs simply because some idiots don't name their videos properly when uploading on youtube

>start seeing video
>5min in, see them doing something impossible
>realise it is TAS
>no mention of it on title or description

It got to a point where I aways view the first few comemmnts before watching any speed run video, to see if I notice something like "this is a TAS" or whatnot

a friend of mine is a top-level speedrunner and also has made some world records afaik.


I make fun of him though with all his speedrunning stuff.

>>768705
Yeah I've been watching one and was confused how they rapidly hit a bad guy before I noticed it was TAS in the expanded description.

>>768701
So if its not to be impressive...what's the point of a speedrun?

>>768682

Look at it this way:

Regular speedruns are for people with reflexes and skill with their hands, who spend countless hours training themselves and honing their abilities to achieve the fastest ending humanly possible.

TAS are for methodic, intellectual people who study the inner workings of the game and abuse every exploit with extreme precision to attain the fastest ending theoretically possible.

One does things manually. The other one automated (despite the fact that you still need to write down every single button press manually). I observe both with awe and admiration, and my respect goes for both sides.

>>768725
The point of a TAS is to demonstrate a "perfect" time.

>>768739
But it's a fake ass time achieved through fuckery. how is that perfect?

TAS are more theoretical than anything. That said, even TAS runs can still be improved. Many tricks are found on a TAS because they have that ability to test around and stuff. TAS also takes lots of time to create. The TAS for Yoshi's Island took three years to make. Also, TAS are for entertainment, because you see tricks you can only see in a TAS or tricks that are also humanly possible, and that's why human speedrunners learn from TAS. If you odn't like it, just don't watch it.

It's fun as long as you only think about beating your personal best. Trying to beat world records is a 1-way ticket to autism (unless you run a really obscure game that has no runs or something). That said, I did enjoy watching AGDQ and will probably watch their next charity event.

>>768682
>>768750
I don't really enjoy watching TASes or get the appeal of making one, but you could give almost the same argument against people that exploit "real-time capable" glitches during speedruns. "You are not impressive, you are not playing the game the way the designers intended." Who cares?

>>768705
I hate people that don't label their "Let's Plays." I just want to watch a video of the game, I don't want your awkward babble droning it out.
Thank god for NicoNico.

>>768738
I wouldn't say intellectual, but methodic sure. I hold regular speed runs in higher regard personally but TAS can be interesting as well.

>>768795
>you could give almost the same argument against people that exploit "real-time capable" glitches during speedruns
Absolutely! But who does that? What honest to God speedrun uses glitches?

I've obviously not seen these supposed "entertaining" TASs because all I've ever seen look like normal playthroughs with really anal pathfinding.

I don't think that people realise that TASes aren't supposed to be showcases of skills like regular speedruns. Like people have explained in this thread, it's just a fun way of showing how fast the game CAN be completed if played with frame-precise perfection.

No one releases TAS videos and says "check muh skillz". I think it's really fun to see what a game looks like when played perfectly; you can even pick up tricks for how to play it regularly.

>>768814

Might've been unnecesarily garish with my choice of words, mostly because of my personal inclination towards TAS. Sorry. I still like both, regardless.

>>768819
a classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMngFy9pik
THIS is what is fun about TAS but yeah, if there is nothing overtly crazy about one, I really don't see the point

I like to watch some runners, especially old NES or PC games. on the other hand it's kind of weird realizing it pretty much is some kind of e-sport with "celebrities" and all that.

Personally I try to avoid TAS as that isn't the game. I don't care how much save scumming or even save states you use, there is most likely a TAS run that can beat yours. I just don't seem to point of it. May as well give yourself a god mode hack when you can be hit by the monsters anyway.

The only TAS speed run I did enjoy was Dragon Warrior 3 for the NES but the random battles on that game (or anything for that matter) wasn't really random. The tool simply just gave button inputs as fast as possible but didn't abuse "luck" or programming otherwise.

I only watch normal speed runs and while I do hate glitches I don't mind them as much when they are humanly possible.

>>768819
not retro, but Megaman Zero speedruns are the fucking coolest things to watch ever.

http://youtu.be/J9LF2KEF1Rg?t=3m59s

Really showcases the pace of the game and what makes it great

I enjoy watching them and applying the tricks I can comprehend to my game... haven't actually sat down and learned a route yet though.

>>768857
here
>>768836
Aw man, this reminded me of all those SM64 TAS vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TSWzOsPYc

>>768850

Meh. If you're happy being shortsighted and biased, so be it. I just thought it'd be pretty swell if you made an informed decision rather than relying on speculation.

>>768891
No, I did give TAS a chance. Maybe I just hate it now because of how horrible it is on Majora's Mask. Spend more time in the air then on the ground with those perfect frame bomb glitches.

Like I said, I did enjoy Dragon Warrior 3 so I don't hate all of them but generally when you see someone doing a TAS run then they usually think they have a free pass to do whatever the fuck they want as long they "beat" the game.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/PokemonRedBlue.html#PokemonRedLargeskips
Assholes like this for example.

TAS runs exist to show you "perfect" runs, glitched runs, runs that do things beyond human execution, etc. They are entertainment, not necessarily a showcasing of skill.

>>768917

I don't understand this post. TAS runs do not exist so people can say that they beat the game. They exist to beat the game as fast as possible using glitches and tools.

Also, I don't know why you listed that link from SDA. SDA runs are legit, and if it bothers you so much that there are glitches you can abuse, well that's why they have separate categories. I have no idea why you're complaining.

>>768891
>shortsighted and biased
Douchebag comments like that is why you TAS lovers are so annoying

>>768935

He's not really being a douchebag there.

>>768920
This guy put it well. I more into skills personally and not so much of what the game itself can do.

>>768935
That is another reason why I don't care for TAS. I have an account for a TAS forum and after a minute I couldn't stand it. They pretty much say the same things. And as this anon >>768941 pointed out it is normal between them.

>>768917
But they're trying to beat the game as fast as possible no matter what it takes. Why do you take them so seriously?
It's like you seriously believe that people release TASes to showcase skill and wag their e-dick. That's not the point.
People who release TASes are literally just trying to show you "Hey, look this can occur in this game under the right circumstances. Ain't that funny?"

Man, any fucking topic about speedrunning will always become a shitfest around TAS.

There seems to be a bit of misinformation.

TAS (tool-assisted speedruns) doesn't involve using some kind of "tool" like game genie or things like that.

TAS is about a person (or group of persons, if it's a colaborative work) playing the game frame by frame (using emulators developed just for that), that way being able to perform inhuman inputs and being efficient exactly to the frame. TAS are created for entertainment and experimentation, nobody sees them as a showcase of skill (it'd be a showcase of patience, anyway).

There are some TAS that shows brutal glitches impossible to perform by a human, like this one recently made of SMW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHErkex2tXg

And some showcases what the perfect game would be, like CarlSagan42's Yoshi Island TAS, which was designed with the purpose of being a guideline for actual speedruns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2AADM1Zr_U

Anyway, I know it's not for everyone and I understand that some "purist" people would just dislike them, I just wanted to properly explain what a TAS is, because when I first read about "tool-assisted" I also thought it was using glitches and shit.

>>768978
what filters are best to use on Zsnes while I TAS?

>>768981
I meant using gameshark kind of things, not glitches, brain fart lol.

>>768981
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHErkex2tXg
How would playing frame by frame cause such weirdness?

>>768981
based carl swagan

>>768689

Haha, when you say it like that, I get what you mean. But the fact is lots of people can hardly pay attention for more than five minutes, so even speedruns can be skimmed over by them

>>768935

I find it more offensive that you're content with shaping concepts in a painfully skewed and ignorant way than me making select use of words that convey a tone of scorn and disapproval.

In other words: I hate idiots who are happy being idiots.

It kinda makes me wonder what exactly are you doing in this thread, since you seem to know half as much as the rest of the posters.

>>769003
If you're up for a really heavy technical explanation, the creator explains how overloading the memory works in here: http://tasvideos.org/3957S.html

>>768987
>ZSNES
>TAS

>>769007
You act like a dick stick because someone disagrees with you. That shit is childish and very douchebag. No one is "ignorant" because there is nothing to be ignorant about. They just fail to see it YOUR way so you start acting like you're somehow more enlightened.

That is pure douchbag,elitist behavior and it is very prevalent among TAS fans.

From my point of view, TAS runs are basically the equivalent of a bunch of physicists designing the perfect human body on a computer, animating the perfect running technique, simulating a wind from the back just a hair below the speed that would invalidate a record and as big a downward incline as they could get away with and showing that the perfect, optimum speed for the 100m is 6.4 seconds or something. It gives speedrunners something to aim for.

As for using glitches and such, that gets into the old problem of whining about "designer intent", which is really subjective and not really relevant when 99% of games weren't intended to be speedrun. It's better to just let anything go and then name and classify anything truly odd so you can make X-less runs to fit whatever requirements you have for fairness or reality.

There was a glitch in one of the Street Fighter games where if you did a frame-perfect execution of a self-projectile move under certain circumstances you'd be invincible during the whole move. In the West it was a curiosity nobody looked into that deeply. In Japan, Blanka and Honda ripped shit up. Really, the only thing that stops pretty much any TAS being done for real is insufficient autism. I really can't think of any that would be truly impossible for someone with the time and focus required. This isn't like a human playing Death Waltz on the piano, we have enough hands to do this.

Ever since I was a kid I always tried beating games as fast as I could. I have a hard time taking my time with things and I must always be doing something to keep myself entertained. I do speed run but I don't stream it or anything. It's just how I normally play.

>look up world record for speedrun of second level of Super Mario World
>mfw I perfectly matched the time without doing any of the complicated tricks that guy did

>>769061

You're obviously not keeping up. Here, let me help you:

>You act like a dick stick because someone disagrees with you

No. I respect anyone who disagrees with me IF they present me with solid arguments that justify their disliking of something. When you base your opinions on misinformation

>May as well give yourself a god mode hack when you can be hit by the monsters anyway

I am going to treat you like an idiot. Especially so when you ignore the many posts strewn across the entire thread explaining what each type of speedrunning consist of. You might as well just plug your ears with your thumbs while yelling gibberish at the top of your lungs.

>That shit is childish and very douchebag

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe. Again, "if you're happy being shortsighted and biased, so be it".

>No one is "ignorant" because there is nothing to be ignorant about

I believe the rest of /vr/, including myself, are autonomous thinkers. I personally reject you trying to represent my opinions through your own.

>They just fail to see it YOUR way so you start acting like you're somehow more enlightened

Except it's not MY way. You seem to have a problem with how you perceive reality, whereas you're good and the hero of this story, and I'm evil because I'm pointing out your flaws. But "if you're happy being shortsighted and biased, so be it". If only you ignored tone and read my words.

>That is pure douchbag,elitist behavior and it is very prevalent among TAS fans

No, this is just common sense.

Judging from your multiple grammatical errors, you're quite upset, and if assumptions are allowed: it's because you're bent on "winning". Unfortunately, that is not the case in this discussion. And I must say, I can't argue with someone who's being blinded by rage.

You're free to throw a tantrum if that makes you feel better. I'm not gonna bother replying anymore.

>>769131
You are quoting different people thinking they are one and calling "him" an idiot.
I hope you see the irony in that

TAS arguments are the worst

People who diss TAS have no idea what the fuck they're talking about

its kinda funny in a way

>>769140
>People who diss TAS have no idea what the fuck they're talking about
The very fact that TAS needs to be mentioned at all when "speedrun" is mentioned shows how much of a cancer they are

>>769131
You're so stuck up your own ass it's hilarious
I was >>769061
but not the others.

>>769150
How is it cancer again

its still beating the game fast so they fit in that category. They're just in completely different styles. There's no reason they shouldn't be mentioned.

They both take alot patience and skill but in completely different approaches.

>>769124
[citation needed]

>>769124

>Bullshitting in an anonymous image board

Cmon man...

>>769150

Don't be so dumb, I seriously cannot believe the whole TAS versus Speedrun stuff is still an argument, TAS is an accepted and welcome part of speedrunning as thanks to it, many, many tricks have been discovered and emulated by humans, shit nobody would ever think off till they saw the TAS.

Look up the latest Batman Speedrun, the TAS time is 9:40 I think, thanks to that TAS humans have gotten it down to 10:18, Punch-Out TAS allowed people to discover all sorts of tricks to bring the time down(currently at 16:41), recently someone did a Yoshi's Island any% run and it was AMAZING, the guy did shit you usually saw in the TAS and it was incredible.

So please stop talking about stuff you don't know, TAS take a lot of time to get going depending on the game being done and help runners a ton.

>>769136

No, I am quoting one person, presenting arguments that I (myself) used previously when replying to this >>769153 individual. Are you really this slow?

>mfw i have the world record for Lands of Lore 1
Alright, there wasn't much competition (only one other and it was bad), and it's segmented. I suck.

>>769165
...It's not just one person, bro.

This thread should've been called real time attack instead.

>>769175
>speedrunning games you have no competition in
hell yeah motherfucker
feels like a waste sometimes though

>>769160
>>769158
Unless my research was faulty, which it might've been, the second (or first, seeing as I know literally no one who went to the "first" level first) level's current record is 40 seconds.

I achieved that by just memorizing where all the enemies were and running forward. Seriously, try it, it's not hard and not much of an accomplishment.

Here's a tip though: That part with the koopas jumping into their shells you can just run through holding B and it'll kill them, as you'll pick up the shell before they get to it and run into them with it.

>>768818
Uh, most? Have you even watched any speedruns?
Go find the AGDQ archive and watch the Yoshi's Island, Battletoads & Double Dragon, and LoZ Ocarina of Time speedruns, just to start.

This boils down to purists feeling slighted and autists defending their autism.

>>769181
It pretty much is.

Also, my record for MGS1 is 2:07:43 on extreme difficulty. The world record is 1:54:02.

Too bad I haven't done that in years, I may have been able to top it.

If they are done with no cheats, mods, hacks, glitches etc I like them. I like to see what kind of strategies people use, and what kind of shortcuts I may miss. If they are using any cheats, glitches, etc I hate them.

>>768659
Like in this guys post. Messing with luck stats. If you do this and claim to make a speed run fuck you. Your critical every hit, steel successful every time bull shit is not a speed run.

Speed runs should show a challenging play though not a cheated play through.

>>769418
You can't tell me you don't enjoy the speedruns where some guy is bugging out all over the place. It's pretty funny most of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFlH90SrOKM

Like this shit right here. How can you not enjoy that?

>>769418

>implying it's not hard to pull of the tricks done in speedruns

for anyone that dislikes speedruns, i'd like to see you pull off half of the "cheated" gameplay that goes on. a lot of glitches/exploits are incredibly difficult to pull off.

in fact, when getting a WR, speedrunners have to reset thousdands of times to get that time they're looking for. At that point, it's almost like TASing which is why some people do that instead.

I don't like tool-assisted runs or game-breaking glitches. They're entertaining to look at, but at that point I would question whether or not it qualifies as a legitimate run or just fooling around with the game's physics. Not /vr/ but pic related.

>>769439
a personal favorite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syo5sI-iOgY

>>769898
That's why the "TASs are neat because they teach how to glitch on human runs" argument is such bullshit. Any normal speedrun that uses extreme glitching is no longer valid. I'm not talking about running along the top of 1-2 in SMB level shit, I'm talking exploiting frame hiccups to pop through walls and shit.
At that point you are not be awesome, you are just fucking around.

And just because TASs take a long time to hammer out, we're supposed to be impressed. It's like being impressed at a guy that can shove a hundred nails up his nose.
Yeah it's kinda novel but...why?

>>769917
>And just because TASs take a long time to hammer out, we're supposed to be impressed.

if you were a programmer, you would understand

>>769917
Both forms are long, repetitive processes that take more practice and patience than skill.

Those insanely quick speedruns? Possible because the guy has gone through the game hundreds of times.
Those insanely bugged TAS speedruns? Possible because the guy has gone through the game hundreds of times.

They're brothers of the same thing, and each have their place in entertainment venues.

>>769910
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syo5sI-iOgY
I love it when the game is like "ENOUGH!" and just ends

>>769917
Some of the gimmicky TASes are pretty good, like the DS Brain Age playthrough where they draw pictures and get the correct answers. Or the NES Monopoly one where they bankrupt 4 CPU players in the same turn. Or the SNES Family Feud one where they give hilarious nonsense answers that are considered correct.

>>769917

if you don't like it, don't watch it. it's that easy

i grew up playing the games that people speedrun, and i've even found some glitces on my own. it's thoroughly entertaining to see megaman or sonic zips or super metroid sequence breaking for many different reasons.

As far as I'm concerned, any opinion that isn't backed by facts or at least solid reasoning isn't valid.

>implying your post is invalid

>>769917
TAS runs are almost always about exceeding human limits. Hell, there's a Pokemon Yellow TAS that literally reprograms the game to render Pinkie Pie's cutie mark on-screen.

Let's see you pull that off on real hardware.

>>769920
Yeah, this. Reverse engineering and discovering/using exploits are inherently interesting. Same reason why people hack websites then tell the owner without actually causing any harm: It's fun to "break" things, figuring out how they work and what their flaws are without direct access to the thoughts of the designers. TASes (the ones that make use of glitches, anyway) are perfected exploits in video form.

Why are you so autistic that you are bothered by this? Why did you write all of these posts? Hide threads you don't like, ignore videos you don't like.

>>769947
Something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNPisyK43Lc

Far more impressive than someone just going fast through a game.

>>769952
Yup.

Another thing about speed runs. The commentary on them is always damn good reading. Game mechanics, frame data, the math, how shit works in the game itself, that is raw geek porn.

They should just take away the "speedrun" from TAS and call it competitive glitching or something and I think the purists wouldn't pitch such a fit

>>769973
They're still speedruns.
The cure is for people to stop being autistic.

>>769973
Why? Most TASes are about getting the fastest time, even the gimmicky ones. It's speedrunning, just with a machine doing the work. Just consider human and machine times separately.

>all this TAS hate
Tool assisted runs aren't about skill, so much as just seeing how far a game's system can be pushed and manipulated. Nobody claims that a TAS requires skill in the same way a normal speedrun does. It just requires a shitton of patience and knowledge of the game.

>>769985
But then hoe would TASs get made?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M7IINwTFVw

buh buh mah childhood

I used to have the records for some tracks in Mario Kart Wii including Mushroom Gorge and Crumble Volcano, back when the game came out. Then as time moved on the times got better and I couldn't keep up, and those two stages I mentioned had cheats to skip laps so I gave up.

>>770014
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M7IINwTFVw
Why are they playing on a Jap system?

>>770024
The Jap version of OOT is widely considered the best version for speedrunning. Every good speedrunner I've seen uses the Jap version.

>>770024
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atCLqVMsAxc

>>770024

Faster text, saves about 12 minutes

>>769973
If you look at the TAS logo on TASvideos website, it says tool assisted superplay, so that it includes runs that don't aim for lowest time.

>>769973
>>770063
Sorry, its on the TASvideos forum. Also, not all TAS runs use glitches, some are just frame perfect runs with an understanding of how the RNG works.

>>768981
>SMW2
>100% levels AND 100% bonuses

All by someone with the name Carl Sagan. Is there nothing that he cannot do?

>>768659
Tool-assisted speedruns are only interesting because of the glitches they use, and only because of the glitches. I don't give a damn how fast you can do them by using tools. If you want to impress me with the speedrun itself, use only the standard gameplay and your skills as a player.

Am I the only one who enjoys speedruns/TAS's a lot more commentated, when they're explaining glitches/skips? I find it more boring and confusing when you have no fucking clue what they're doing.

>>769183
Don't forget DK64!

>>770142
Yeah. That's the only way they are interesting to be. Talking about overwriting values and memory addresses and stuff

>>770173
>reading the explanation for how they skip the entire game in OoT
never gets old

>>769182
nope, it's 39 seconds, you need to do a little trick at the end to ditch that second, getting a 40 is pretty easy for anybody who plays for a while

>>770194 (same guy as this)
here, have a non tsa link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XdeGaIqx7Y

>>770186

lol the RBA one is even better
>ok time to go fight the final boss
>beats King Dodongo and goes directly to credits
I shat bricks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhzXKMqZBBc

>>769920
This. I only find them interesting as a programmer. As a gamer? Defeats the purpose of the game.

>>770014
Impressive

I like TAS runs but in a totally different way. I like seeing how the players break the game and stretch the game's code to it's limits.

If you're glitching through walls to get to the final area: Fuck off. That's not what makes a speed run fun to watch.

>>770710
Says you. And stop acting like this ruins "legit" speedruns, there's glitch and no-glitch for like everything nowadays. Multiple categories let us have our cake and eat it too

I like setting up my own hi-scores with tools, then try to break them in real time.

I really like games with good physics and movement, speedrunning them just feels so well.

>>770728
Dude.

Fuck you.

>>770710

People enjoy the same thing in different ways. Perhaps you should consider other people

>>770764
No.

Fuck off.

No barter. No treaty. Shit's lame. Do it right, you cunt.

>>770803

Your attitude is not befitting of /vr/

>>770842
No negotiations, you jackal. Fuck off with the wallphasing.

A personal favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lnogpRPvY4

>>769439
Bugging out all over is funny at times, when done properly. But that is not a speed run, and should not be called a speed run tool assist or not. They should be called "glitched runs" or "lolz loook at muh hAck$"

>>769471
But those restarts mean the time they finish with are earned. They clearly put the time into getting that sub two hour finish of insert game here. TASing is bull shit.

Also I would just like to point out, I never said "it's not hard to pull of the tricks done in speedruns" If it is clearly a glitched trick then I can't do it. If an enemy is weak to fire, and it lets you kill a boss in 2 hits not 20 and I missed that, then its a trick I learn from it.

>>771315
INB4 muh autism

>>771315
Normal speedruns and tool assisted require different skills, both are impressive in their own ways. You're also grossly understating the effort required to make a good TAS. Less human error sure, but you still have to program the moves and plan the routes, and understand how the game works for serious glitching.

>>771435
Im well aware of whats needed even in a TAS run. But you cant call it a speed run in my opinion.

>but you still have to program the moves and plan the routes, and understand how the game works for serious glitching.
That is true to an extent. If you race a civic (vanilla game) with a Ferrari (TAS play) that Ferrari should win, unless a retard is behind the wheel and they dont know how to drive (Don't know how to play the game in the first place). But watching a Ferrari beat a civic is not as fun to watch.
It takes the excitement out of knowing that every second is important and that if you stop playing for a second because you sneezed your entire play through is jeopardized.

Finally if you are going to brag "I beat FF3 in under 5 hours" when you have to add that disclaimer "I used walk through walls, no random encounters, glitched through 5 dungeons... etc" it makes you look like a cheating fag. Where as if you said "I beat the game in 8 hours, no cheats of any kind and did not jump straight to the ninja, ninja, sage, sage team" It looks hella impressive. There is nothing impressive about someone cheating through a game.

>>771492
Just my opinion, we most likely will have to agree to disagree. I just feel that Tool Assist runs are spitting in the face of legit runs. No matter what amount of skill is needed, Legit play is harder and more rewarding that assisted play.

>>771492
It's not to impress, it's more just to see if you can do it. The 'speed' bit on there is just to force them to find glitches that might give them a faster time.
For me, at least, it's not about the 'actual record' time, it's the theoretical possibility of 'what is the fastest it could possibly be done' and understanding the game's mechanics down to their workarounds and faults.

Anyone taking TAS runs super-seriously really needs to chill.

It's cool that TAS exist and interesting how they can break the game, although I don't really enjoy watching them.

My favorite speedruns are ones that only use minor glitches. Mockball is awesome but the x-ray warp thing is not.

>>768738
>TAS are for methodic, intellectual people
>intellectual
Yea, no... That equivalent to saying if you read "War and Peace" faster, you're smarter.

>>771525
He's saying it takes longer to make a TAS, and requires micromanagement strategy; speedruns require split-second decision making skills along with reflexes. A TAS can re-record forever, the skill involved is not in the execution but the planning.

Your example really doesn't make any sense. "I can go through this analyzing every single word for its maximum meaning, or I can just read the book" is closer. Maybe an analogy with Cliffs Notes would be better, but I'm going to bed so someone else can make it.

I'm just fascinated how TAS vs. non-TAS became a thing.

>>771510
But at that point you are no longer playing the game, you are making game breaking glitches and exploits. It boils down to the definition and principal of a speed run. To me a speed run is "how fast can you go from new game to the end". You get there based on skill, practice, and for the love of a challenge. As soon as you add external things like game sharks or use glitches that are not part of normal game play you are defeating the principal of a speed run: a test of your skill as a gamer.

To say its about a theoretical time is true till you cheat. Then its not a theoretical possibility, its about a forged and forced time. All this understanding the game mechanics is bull shit.

TAS runs should not be called speed runs, they are glitched/cheated play throughs.

>>771541
It's getting fucking ridiculous. "Purists" always seem to sperg the fuck out whenever TAS are mentioned, as if they both can't coexist at the same time. I can understand if you don't like them but wow, just shut the fuck up for once.

>>768554

I love seeing games played with extraordinary skill and knowledge, they're great

http://zeldaspeedruns.com/speedruns/1168

I can't wait for Summer Games Done Quick, I hope Blueglass is there to charm the whole world again

>>771541

It truly is amazing, I can't even imagine what kind of person gets MAD at a TAS, how insecure with your video game skill would you even need to be to get like that?

>>769418
>If you do this and claim to make a speed run fuck you.

That is why they explicitly say it is tool-assisted and NOT A SHOWCASE OF SKILL

I have capitalized it not to shout at you, but to emphasize the point that you seem to be missing, despite it being repeatedly mentioned in the thread

>>769917
SDA says on their website (or at least they used to ) that using out of bounds glitches are against their rules. so if you're that anal about it just stick to SDA

/srg/ here

top lel

What's the point of being good at videogames anyway, it's a time consuming skill with no practical use.

>>771694
>It truly is amazing, I can't even imagine what kind of person gets MAD at a TAS, how insecure with your video game skill would you even need to be to get like that?
It's similar to how the illiterate get angry at the sight of a book.

>>771954
jelly you can't touch my high scores

>>771646

The big problem there is how you define "cheating". You can't just say "don't cheat" or talk about developer's intent, you need to specifically list what in each game is a glitch, because "common sense" differs wildly.
We could have another thread full of rage just about whether the Mockball in Super Metroid is cheating or in line with developer's intent, since it fairly obviously screws with the planned progression. This is why the base standard is absolutely anything goes, then you have special runs that say "Without X", "Without Y", you need to define proscribed behaviour narrowly to avoid it becoming completely subjective.
You even have low percentage and "Without ability X" runs in Metroid where players avoid abilities they're supposed to be getting and that the devs had no fucking idea they could do without, simply because speedrunners recognise that doing without ANY ability can dramatically change the level of challenge, whether it's wall-phasing, Mockball, Super Missiles, or the motherfucking God Hand.

>>770132
It's interesting for some (for me too) to see how much you can exploit glitches. It's sometimes even funny.
It's also interesting seeing how it would be if you'd only get critical hits, or pure luck.

I'm impressed by both types of speedruns: skills of the player and mastery of the game mechanics and skills/patience using glitches, getting the right frames, exploiting everything you can in order to finish the games faster.

I watched a Zoast speedrun of Super Metroid and almost passed out. How?

>>768959
>Hey, look this can occur in this game under the right circumstances. Ain't that funny?

Yes, yes, YES!
This is why I watch TASes. They can be hilarious as fuck!
The last one I saw that made me laugh is the one for Diddy Kong Racing.

>>772004
Same goes for ALttP.
A lot of people go to dungeon 6 before 5 (Dark World, obviously) to get the Cane of Somaria and use the red block to open that last door of the ice dungeon instead of dropping a block from the upper roof.
But 5 is before 6 and I don't see no one complaining.

So do those TAS crowd use game sharks? Because how else can you do something like that MLP song in Pokemon game using only savestate scumming and frame precision.

>>771646
>But at that point you are no longer playing the game, you are making game breaking glitches and exploits.
You are not playing the game "normally" indeed. You are using tools, hence the name TAS.

>To me a speed run is "how fast can you go from new game to the end".
>To me
You see, that can be a problem. We can't just all decide how things are named. We have to agree on a definition and a word. If I call a chair "spoon", you call it "worm" and some other anon calls it "746" we won't be able to communicate with each other. TAS are called that way because that's how they came to be named.

You are right, they are glitched, but I've never seen one where they use gamesharks or password/secrets unless it's under that particular type of TAS.

Anyways, at least you understand the difference between a normal speed run and a glitched/cheated/TAS/ImputNameHere run.

>>769160
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGn9sxCUgY
Here's the link to the Yoshi's Island any% warped he was talking about. I highly recommend it if you have even the slightest interest in speedruns. It was amazing.

>>771503
>[l]egit play is harder and more rewarding tha[n] assisted play.
For you, but not for everyone.

They are not spitting in the face of legit runs.

They are on different categories:
-legit runs using skills, years of training, that usually is gratifying because you've beaten someone's record or your own
-tool-assisted runs using "tools" to exploit whatever is exploitable in the game just for the heck of it because it's fun and/or funny and/or interesting

Serious legit as well as tool-assisted runners would NEVER mix the time records of both categories.

>>768917
>http://speeddemosarchive.com/PokemonRedBlue.html#PokemonRedLargeskips
can someone tell me what the fuck I just watched? what did he do to the save file to glitch it like that?

>>771492
>If you race a civic (vanilla game) with a Ferrari (TAS play) that Ferrari should win [...].

See, that's the problem. You shout NOT mix both categories of runs. It's OBVIOUS the Ferrari will win, unless there's a retard behind the wheel like you said.

Like said in >>772150:

>They are on different categories:
>-legit runs using skills, years of training, that usually is gratifying because you've beaten someone's record or your own
>-tool-assisted runs using "tools" to exploit whatever is exploitable in the game just for the heck of it because it's fun and/or funny and/or interesting

>Serious legit as well as tool-assisted runners would NEVER mix the time records of both categories.

If some guy brags because he beat your LEGIT run with his TAS run then he's being a complete idiot and you are dumb if you let yourself be affected by that.

>>772127
TAS runs only ever use things that are possible 100% within the game. They're literally just what can happen if a player has frame-perfect control over the game.

Basically, he first corrupts the save file by shutting off the game, and the save file now says he has 255 pokemon. Any pokemon past 6 are actually just random bytes of memory that he can now screw with by swapping them around. He swaps some mons to overwrite the limit on the item counter, so that instead of being limited to 20, he's got no limit, and every item in his inventory past 20 is two bytes of memory (item type, item amount) that he can now screw with freely.

Using the fact that gen 1 pokemon games will just execute whatever bytes they read, he arranged the items in a way that, if the game tried to execute his inventory as a series of opcodes, it winds up running a bootstrapping program that he programmed into the game entirely by moving items around in his glitched inventory.

He then heads to Celedon Mansion and swaps some more pokemon so that the bytes that are his rival's name overwrite a pointer, and execute the bytes pointed at by his rival's name instead of what it's supposed to execute. He named his rival Lp/k, because the bytes for that name are the same as the address of the bootstrapping program he wrote entirely by swapping items around in his inventory.

So because of all that insane bullshit, he executes his bootstrapping program (program-writing program (that he wrote through his inventory)) by talking to the computer, which lets him write the MLP program at the end of the video entirely through pressing buttons.

The moral of the story is 'this is why games now have memory protection.'

I can't believe there are still people who think TAS are about getting the fastest time. I've seen people on /v/ dislike them because they "make the game shorter so they enjoy it less, why not savour it?"

I really can't tell if you guys are trolling or if you really are this dumb.

Anyways if you want to feel fast look at the Sonic Unleashed speed runs on youtube by some japanese guy.

Ah. I just got the .vbm file of that wrecked and reprogrammed Yellow file.

It's making really creepy noises at me. I don't think we were meant to play God.

>>771492
The Ferrari analogy is misleading, because TAS doesn't mean your character automatically gets better engine/etc. The game's still the same (no cheats/gamesharks damnit!). Better analogy is: you race using the same normal car, but you can rewind time like in Braid, and because of that you're expected to win the race before opponents reach the end of the first lap. Good luck.

>>772170
Only if it was done under a good emulator, that's part of the reason N64 emus are banned from normal speedrunning.

>>772107
That cant be called TAS though. ALttP is a somewhat open world, and you happen to explore dungeons out of order oh well. You still have to go back and do 5 so its not a huge time saver. Thats a mistake someone playing the game for the first time can make quite easily IMO.

>>772135
You're right there is a set standard name for everything and TAS just happened to stick. MY personal definition does not matter. It goes back to the fundamental point again. "What is a speed run?" how does "Look at all my glitches and game breaking bugs" count a speed run? Its a poorly named term


>>771849
I have not missed that point, tas is not a skill showcase. EVERYONE else seems to miss the point I am trying to make.
>Hey, look this can occur in this game under the right circumstances. Ain't that funny?
>Hey anon your right that is funny, lets call our dicking around with glitches a speed run.
>his is why I watch TASes. They can be hilarious as fuck!
TAS are just GLITCH EXPLOIT videos, NOT speed runs, to call them speed runs is just wrong.
(also my caps are not used to shout, but to emphasize)

>>772906
>(also my caps are not used to shout, but to emphasize)
To emphasize what? Your autism?
>No one's listening to me!
is not the same as
>No one's agreeing with me!

You are certainly welcome to your wrong opinion, but barking loudly about how right you are is not doing anything. You are a howler monkey, shrieking into the wind.

>>772187
>I can't believe there are still people who think TAS are about getting the fastest time

Tool Assisted Speedrun

yes it is about going literally inhuman fast

>>772906
But you use tools to assist you to speedrun the game. What's so hard to understand about that?

>>772635

FYI all emulators are banned from normal speedrunning.

>>773008
Nothing is hard to understand that. It is the terminology used that just sounds misleading that everyone is just calling autism.

using "tools" sounds like using game shark like devices even if they are not used. Calling a glitch a tool is fucking retarded.

When you sit down to play a game and say "lets go as fast as I can" its a speed run.
Whey you say "Lets break this bitch!" and beat a 5 hour game in 10 minutes it is not a speed run, because you didn't play the game fully. You glitched through maps, skipped 80% of the game, or went in and changed values that are not meant to change normally. IE a glitch exploit video not speedrun

>>773041
>Calling a glitch a tool is fucking retarded.

The "tool" in "tool assisted speedrun" stands for emulators and their functions. You, uh, knew that right?

>>773041

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?DonkeyKong64_NewGamePlus_SS_054

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?DonkeyKongCountry_SS_023

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?GrandTheftAutoCW_glitched_SS_211

So stuff like this aren't speed runs either?

>>773047
see
>>773030

>>773053
I dont consider things like that speed runs. I call them glitch exploits. Call me old fashioned but I feel like there should be set rules for what is called a speed run, one of which is no intentional glitching.

>>773109

Problem is you can't do that. If you do that, you're going to have fucking ENDLESS arguments about what constitutes a glitch and what not, and that's never going to be quantifiable. For instance, you can't really make a difference between a "movement physics quirk" and a "movement physics glitch" at all.

>>773109

So basically you want to ignore the words "Tool Assisted" and decide to sperg out just because you see the word "Speedrun" in spite of the fact that it is preceded by the words "Tool Assisted" to differentiate it from normal speedruns anyway.

There's a reason why Tool Assisted Speedruns have the words "tool assisted" in them. They aren't normal speedruns and no one is trying to pass them off as such. If they were, no one would be trying to differentiate between them in the first place.

Can I be honest with you? You're kinda dumb. Kinda really dumb.

>>773118
There is a difference between intentional glitching and random little quirks. First link in >>773053 post for example. That is obviously glitching. He went straight to the steps and began screwing with the camera. He intentionally fell through the steps. A random little quirk would be something that happens while playing unexpectedly and you just have to roll with it.

>>773130
No I dont want to ignore the words Tool Assisted. I want to remove the word speedrun. Because it does not have the same idea behind it as a speed run. At its very core TAS is glitch exploitation. And they should be labeled as so not speed runs.

Can I be hones with you? You want to say im being autistic and sperging out because I feel like a name is misleading. While you are going full on autistic to protect your precious little nich of gaming.

Remember the time when Spider-Waffle beat the TAS record for Metroid completely unassisted?

>>773154

Define "glitch".

>>773154
You are sperging over fucking nothing. Calm down and stop telling people how to have fun.

>>773162
First off my tone is perfectly calm, guess that is not translating over text too well. Secondly I just pointed out with a simple comment that I felt like TAS was misleading, left it at that, and went on with my life. Not once did I tell people to have fun. It seems like you and anyone else that is apart of it are flipping out because I stated a simple opinion that is not the same as your collective hive mind. Stay mad brah

>>773154
>Because it does not have the same idea behind it as a speed run.

That's why the words "tool assisted" are there. Are you new to language? Not just the English language, but communication in general.

>>772906
There are TASes without glitches (e.g. when no single glitch was found in the game, or when author decided to create a glitch-free TAS for a change) How would you call those?

Most TASes do contain glitches, simply because glitches aren't prohibited.
In fact, glitches usually add bonus points to TAS, because they provide kind of novelty.

>>773171
>tell you politely to please calm down
>I'M FUCKING CALM, YOU'RE THE MAD ONE HERE!
Also, there's at least four different people in this thread.

>>773170
You dense motherfucker.
The line in front of that quote part
> I don't want to ignore the words Tool Assisted. I want to remove the word speedrun.
Once again I am aware that TAS separates it from a normal speed run. I get that shit. Do you mother fuckers not comprehend my simple though that saying its tool assisted still does not qualify as a speed run? That is all I'm trying to say, not make this big argument, not wax poetic over the various terms. Just point out that TAS are close to glitch showcase than speed runs.

>>773185
IT'S A RUN
DESIGNED FOR SPEED
ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT

>>773174
Then what part of those glitchless TASes are tool assisted?

>>773176
Like you said there are at least 4 people here. Make sure your talking to the mad one.

All people in this thread are autists.

Time. Time is the competitive trial that can be applied to any game ever made. Once you've passed the initial and fundamental test of an objective-based game (completion), the only question it will always pose is, "yes, but can you do it faster?"

Scoring is an arbitrary tacked-on system in any game, and sometimes the intermediary goals themselves are subject to debate, which is part of the reason why speedruns and scoring runs tend to have seperate categories for different modes of completion.

The speedrun is more than just a scoreboard, it is a slice of the competition against oneself that flickered out with the death of the arcade, and the sense community that builds together around some accessible gaming apparatus.

>>773171
Yeah, you're being pretty ridiculous in spite of prevailing reason, and I want you to analyze your opinion further before you bring this up in another thread. Glitch exploitation exists outside of TAS and TAS do not necessarily require glitches.

>>773161
Anything not normally done through reasonable game play. clipping through walls, screen warping, item glitches etc. I know many of these can be done with out game sharks, and just require proper timing. but it is not put in by the designers as a game play mechanic. People can argue that we as players dont know what is and is not intended to be used. We all know full and well what is and is not considered normal. If screen warping was intended it would be in the instruction booklet.

>>773189
>Then what part of those glitchless TASes are tool assisted?

The part where they use savestates to fix mistakes, and frame precision to improve reflexes.

>>773202
You do realize that most "normal" speedruns rely heavily on those sorts of exploits, right? The only difference is that the tool does it more reliably.

>>773192
All people on 4chan are autists.

>>773210
>>773213
I guess I come from the old school mindset that a speed run is done on the original console not an emulator. You dont use game sharks, or other glitches intentionally. If they happen they happen, but you dont go looking for them (half the time you don't know about them)

>>773217
Screen cap this entire thread and save this shit. This thread proves this statement more than anything I have seen in a long time

>>773221

Then almost all standard speed runs are disqualified, because nearly all of them seek out glitches intentionally to save time. This shit is a science, and if there's a way to save time within a reasonable probability of pulling it off, it's going to happen.

So essentially, the majority of speedruns aren't actually speedruns, but "glitch exploits".

>>773202
Do you realize how subjective that is? Common sense does not dictate anything within the coded boundaries of a game. There are actions which can be taken, and actions which cannot be taken, and the best

A glitch is by definition an unintended fault in a program, and faults are defined by developer intention, not by the collective agreement of a majority of players. Either way, they do not affect the legitimacy of a speedrun unless the fastest route contains one or more significant sequence breaks - IN WHICH CASE the speedrun is still legitimate, but another category opens up for runs that follow an imposed ruleset set by the players, perhaps to follow the general developer-intended route.

>>773221
Nearly all major speedrunners abuse glitches in their runs, Tool-assisted or not. You'd still consider the world record runs in super mario 64 and OoT knowing that they were gotten by abusing glitches?

One of the most important skills involved in speedrunning is finding glitches and figuring out how to exploit them to save time. This has always been the case.

>>773221
I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. Gamesharks are not glitch exploiters, they're just flags getting raised and savefiles getting edited - it redefines the rules of the game. It's the equivalent of a guy firing drugdarts into a soccer match from the stands. And there's no category of speedrunning that involves such devices.

Unlike gamesharks, glitches are within the boundaries of the game. The solution to the popular board game Checkers was not intended by the developers but it's sitting there in the rules and it completely breaks the game.

This attitude towards speedruns has always been the case and is considered as such now, so your "old-school mindset" is one that is shared by a tiny circle of oblivious friends, including you, at best.

Backontopic: I'm currently speedrunning Sacrifice. Easy world record since no one has ever run it, but people have done work on it many years ago.

Hate it. Too repetitive.

>this thread is a day old

holy shit what

ITT/ autism vs autism who will win

>>773221
>game sharks, or other glitches

How can you equate those?
Cheat devices alter game code or data, so you're essentially playing another game.
Glitches are part of the actual game (maybe an unintended part, but what's done is done), so you can use them by default, and only avoid them when making a special category of speedruns (haven't seen much of those). Anyway, tool-assistance has nothing to do with this.

>>773041
But they're not like 'let's break this bitch!'; they are simply trying to beat the game as quickly as possible using only the capabilities held within the game itself. If the game had no glitches to exploit that would be useful in this endeavor, they wouldn't be used. It sounds like you're just adding a lot of arbitrary rules to an activity that is literally 'people trying to find the fastest possible time a game can be beaten in'.

You sound like the kind of fag that complains in Street Fighter when the opponent is Ryu and just lobbing Hadoukens at you from across the screen, like it's 'cheap'.

>Ctrl+F autis
>258 results

holy shit never change /v/

>>773154
>Because it does not have the same idea behind it as a speed run

Except it does; beating the game as quickly as possible is the sole point of it. It's not to show off any tricks or gimmicks; it is literally to get the best time possible.

So much autism.
/vr/ more like /v/
all this shit because one person does not agree with the name given to something. All that anon said was that he feels tool assist is not in the same spirit of other speed runs. He never said the name was wrong, just misleading in his opinion. But because this is /v/ reincarnated we have overreact to the fact that his opinion is not the same as the hive mind. Stay classy

>>774178
Everyone knows they're not the same.

No one is trying to beat anyone into the dirt for having a different opinion, he's saying he doesn't 'feel' wheelbarrels should be called wheelbarrels because there aren't any barrels.

They're not called wheelbarrels, they're called wheelbarrows.

Well, I still think it's a stupid name.

https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/is_there_a_hatred_toward_tool_assisted.html

Unlike the rest of this thread, people in that thread actually do speedruns.

>>774187
He is it should be called something different because he feels it should.
He was simply pointing out he feels the name is stupid, not that it should be doped and renamed. You did the same with your wheelbarrel example. He just said the phrase tool assist invokes a different idea than what it means.

>>774225
You don't need to lay an egg to say that one is bad.

>>774287
That's true, but it is interesting to compare the opinions of those actually involved in the subject to those who are not.

>>769181
TFW I hold the WR for Metal Gear 2 and have for years.

>>774360
Whats the record...

>>774373
53 minutes Big Boss ranking (PS2 version)

>>774227
You weren't reading his bit, because he says in multiple instances that is issue is not directed at the tool-assisted part, but that they are called speedruns, explaining is version of what a speedrun should be. This brought up the subjective and restrictive nature of his definition, and the fallacies that it established with regard to 'using one's skills to get the fastest time possible'.

You'll also note that the example presented in >>774187 is done intentionally so as to compare to how the situation unfolded, which would probably have been more clear in greentext.

>wheelbarrels shouldn't be called wheelbarrels because there aren't any barrels
>they're not called wheelbarrels, they're called wheelbarrows
>well, I still think it's a stupid name

bump

>>774429
Thats damn impressive.

>>774481

They're okay if they aren't playing boring games to watch (read: Non-2d zelda games/Yoshi's Island)

>>774884
And? The context was Tool-Assisted Speedruns; everyone and their mother had an opportunity to throw that out there (and someone did, iirc), but that's beside the point.

I think watching videos of the game mechanics of my favorite games being completely destroyed is hilarious.

This video is probably my favorite example of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvwwIKwJ9dQ

The only TAS I really liked was of SM64. It was really crazy how the physics were bent in Bomb-omb battlefield to get some of the stars. Otherwise it's all glitches and exploits and not fun at all to watch especially N64 Zeldas and F-Zero GX, where it's bomb exploit or snaking.

I like legitimate ones, even if it takes for ever to record, like Megaman Zero no damage, hard mode speedrun with all stages at S grade completion.

watching RPGs is boring as fuck. Tried watching pokemon ones, closed the window immediately after.

FACT: the speedrun shit is for autistic people

I really don't understand the hate towards TASes and the like on this board.. The point behind them isn't do demonstrate skill, it's for the sake of entertainment. Case and point videos like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp7Z2zdu9Zw
It's not meant to show skill, it's meant to be awesome as hell. What does it matter if it's essentially 'fake'? It's not like people are lying and saying its maximum skill and stuff like that. It's just pushing the game to its absolute, total limit. What's wrong with that?

>>775042

most of them use glitches to cut past a lot of content

100% TAS is alright though

>>774360
Proof please

>>775050
It's still really cool though. Like the Super Mario world one where the game is manipulated to the point where a glichy sprite is produced that executed code from the OAM, and the OAM is manipulated to look like code that jumps straight to the end credits...you have to admit that's pretty neat. That's why I'm glad there's sections for 100% runs and glitch runs like that. It's neat to see what one can do to the game with tools like that.

le bumpy face

>>775034

No you're just shit at video games.

>>775261
butthurt ass burger detected

>>775057
no way of proving this is me, but it is.

>>775342
You are a good person

>>774429
bullshit

>>775342
>easy
>big boss

lel

>>768701
TAS are fun to watch (if you want evidence, watch the TAS of super mario 64)

but when it comes to actually doing speedruns, it's far more fun to watch someone actually go through the game as fast as possible, abusing everything possible, just by hand. it's very incredible

The reason I prefer TAS to regular speedruns is because while "doing it by hand" is a criteria a lot of people feel is a positive, that's not the case for me. What I want to see is perfection, by any means necessary. Setting a goal, then reaching that goal as efficiently as possible using perfect reflexes, a near encyclopaedic knowledge of the game engine and absolute clairvoyance.

Take for instance games like SMB, which have been beaten so thoroughly that a one frame improvement on the current run is a massive accomplishment. That is incredible to me - that a video game has essentially become "solved", for lack of a better term.

And then there are things like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=261982dMI38

Beating four games using the exact same input. That is insane. And then there are the playarounds, IMO the cream of the crop when it comes to tool assisted superplaying (rather than speedrunning):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEIxmkcMDy0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz4ib8d59sg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0hd51p-fdc

Fighting game TAS are especially ridiculous.

>>775658
People got pissy when I said I like normal speed running compare to TAS earlier as I like I look at skill and not so much when it come to abusing the game itself.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=261982dMI38
Stuff like this though is what I want to see more of in TAS. I see this as a skill even if it just the skill of perfect planning and multitasking.

I'm not a hard guy to impressive but without the human side of TAS, to me that would be like bragging that you beat a chess AI with your own AI. I don't mind and in fact love TAS but after a while it feel like the game is just playing itself. Maybe it is because I used to watch automatic Super Mario World levels? With that said I don't mind normal TAS I just like normal human runs slightly more.

Thanks for posting that video. Nice to see a good TAS run once in a while.

They're great, but I honestly don't watch a bunch because there's never any commentary. I'd like to see a speedrunner do a director's commentary type thing over a speedrun video where they explain why they took the approach they did and other behind-the-scenes stuff, or just bullshitting. As it is, I'd rather watch people race because usually they have things to say while doing so (and there's also the competitive nature of it). It's why I won't watch a longplay but I will if retsupurae is riffing over it.

>>775540
you know of a better time?