/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7710101
>(no bernie posting)
I am once again asking you to talk about the Sega Saturn! It will be a gaming revolution!

Bernie shows up in less than 10 posts, probably.

>>7710101
shiturn sux lol

Should I try Liquid Kids?

Larry turned me onto it and the only console ports that seem to exist are on the TG-16 and Saturn.

Not sure if playing The New Zealand Story is important first.

>>7710139
Why would you play arcade games ported to console (and CD-based ones at that) instead of emulating the original arcade version in current year?

I got my parents to get me a Sega Saturn purely because Sonic R had vocals in the music. It blew my mind that video games could "talk".

>>7710154
Because arcade ports include expanded features to make them justifiable as home console releases, obviously.

>>7710178
At the cost of (in many cases) performance, graphical quality, sound quality, and of course, additional load times not present in the original.

>>7710154
>(and CD-based ones at that)
What are you implying?

>>7710154
unless there's an easy and reliable way to hook up my pc to my consumer crt, I'll continue to play console arcade ports

>>7710202
There are a literal fuckton of different VGA-to-svideo/composite converters available, mainly from the 90's when they were actually semi-useful
Alternatively you could just get a slightly older GPU like a GTX280 or Radeon 3870 that just has direct analog video output for composite/svideo/component

>>7710191
Well load times I'll give you but the game was ported across two generations and I'm assuming the Liquid Kids arcade hardware runs closer in spec to a TG-16. I think the Saturn should be able to do it justice.

Rate my collection

>>7710101
(no bernie posting) is not our future

Woah, whered all the Bernie posts go?

>>7710763

How much would a complete Saturn collection go for do you reckon?

>>7710763
To hell.

>>7710770
Depends on the region. I saw a complete NTSC-j collection going for like twenty grand a while back iirc, so double that for NTSC-u

>>7710770
There was an auction thread a while back where somebody was selling 251 games for $25,000. That's not a full collection but that's way beyond what the average saturn player could ever have. Crazy enough, bundled together that's actually a good deal (some of the games in that bundle were worth $1,000 by themselves) but it's insane to imagine anybody actually spending that kind of cash and just buying a collection whole like that

>trannyjannies are also Saturncuck weebophiles who get triggered at the sight of Bernie Stolar

Makes sence.

>>7710796
>please refrain from posting about sega as a company (no bernie posting)
seethe

Hello there frens. Tell me, what draws you more to the Sega Saturn compared to the other 5th gen consoles? Also, which game would you recommend as a first to introduce the system?

>>7711134
for me it's the amount of shooters on the system. I fucking love shmups, which is why I love pc engine too lol

>>7711134
It was 2D's last stand before Playstation and N64 killed it off. Loads of really good 2D platformers, fighters, shmups to play on the system compared to the others of 5th gen.

>>7711134
limitation breeds creativity, and a lot of Saturn's Gems exhibit that truth.
Also the aesthetic is kino, I grew up with a fat Ps1, then a Ps2, I had no idea about the Saturn until fucking vaporwave happened hahaha

Ask someone who got a beta-Satiator early anything

>>7711134
Bug too, mr. Bones, cockwork knight 2, die hard arcade, daytona, virtual on

>>7711221
Are you a transexual?

>>7711134
I love arcade games

>>7711238
thought I was for a brief period!

>>7711218
>Also the aesthetic is kino, I grew up with a fat Ps1, then a Ps2, I had no idea about the Saturn until fucking vaporwave happened hahaha
Heh, something similar happened to me. I've had a PS1 and PS2 as a kid, but when I discovered the Dreamcast playing it was just like a vaporwave feel.

I only have a bunch of kid's platformers but thats the kind of stuff I like like Bug, Croc, Gex, and so on

>>7711307
Mega Man?

>>7710276
You seem to be missing the better SMT, anon.

>>7711464
Nah, after a long day of selling iphones to jews, i kinda just want to play some light platforming with choice aesthetic. Megaman legends, sure, but x... Fuck no

>>7711134
i like fightan games and am a sega fanboy so it's perfect. for your first game, why not some good old NiGHTS into dreams?
here's my box of games for everyone to see

>>7710276
a lot of good stuff in there
I think my favorite is Tengai Makyo 4th Apacolypse

>>7711134
It's the comfiest 5th gen system. Top tier arcade gaming along fantastic story driven games, plus a selection of multiplayer titles to play with friends or online not to mention a sizable import selection to sink your teeth into. It's got something for every classic game fan.

Why do you guys have Japanese copies of text heavy rpgs?

>>7710101
Would you say the Saturn controller is good for platformers, over say an SNES controller?

Yeah, more like SEGA Shiturn.

>>7711968
So are you a coprophiliac or what

>>7711631
Because they know Japanese?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-BGwGsyNYg

Not our future. Never was our future.

>>7711493
Fuck you impersonator.

No I don't have any sega megaman titles

>>7712076
doubtful

Collection poster, prove your fluency

>>7711134
I like the hard to find and never ported tactical RPGs and strategy games. I guess I'd recommend virtua cop.

>>7711134
It was the black sheep of the big 3, and the big reason it didn't get the love it deserved was because 80% of the library was stuck in Japan. Pretty much any fighting game or shmup or whatever was better on the Saturn too. Also pic related is the greatest vidya advertisement campaign of all time.

>>7713394
>Also pic related is the greatest vidya advertisement campaign of all time.
Then how come nobody heard of it?

>>7713712
I'd like to see you prove that. He got his own game on Saturn, and Sega recently unveiled a successor to Segata Sanshiro, Sega Shiro, whom is the real-world descendant of Hiroshi Fujioka (the actor of Segata).

But I suppose if you knew that it would indicate that you care, which you obviously don't

>>7713784
not him but I've literally never heard of that guy, is it some weeb obsession?

>>7713814
>not him
>I've literally never heard of that guy
If you have nothing to add, why bother sticking your nose in the conversation?
>I suppose if you knew that it would indicate that you care
>which you obviously don't
I fail to see what harm there is in researching things before posting. Sheer hubris

>>7713814
He was the main marketing campaign for the Saturn and was loved in Japan. He was essentially a human mascot. He was never brought over to America, but I'd say most Saturn owners knew of him through magazines and later on through YouTube and forums. I hate to use gatekeeping rhetoric but it's surprising that Saturn owners today wouldn't recognize him. He wasn't a niche weeb figure, he was the literal mascot for the system. I would guess that people who don't know him are newcomers to the system.

Oh, forgot to post my favorite of his ads

https://youtu.be/Zh8cXfLJPaU

>>7713784
>>7713784
>>7713814
>>7713846
>>7714015
>I hate to use gatekeeping rhetoric but it's surprising that Saturn owners today wouldn't recognize him.
I may have been vaguely familiar with him before I bought a Saturn, but I didn't even know the console existed in the 90's, let alone the Japanese mascot.

Segata who? We all know Bernie is the Saturd's mascot.

>>7714017
what does some japanese guy doing karate have anything to do with videogames?

>>7711221
what has your experience with it been like? run into any major issues?

>>7710101
For all of the Saturn fans out there, what would you say is the main reason for the system failing in sales? And if you could go back in time and change something about how SEGA handled the Saturn, what would it be?

>>7714168
I mean I'd probably still have wanted an N64 but even knowing the console was a thing I could buy would help.

>>7714168
Honestly I think just cancelling 32X, shifting it's games to the Genesis, Sega CD, and Saturn depending on which was the better fit, and then prepping for a better Saturn launch in September of 1995 as originally planned would have gone long way in making a difference.

>>7714168
>what would you say is the main reason for the system failing in sales?
Poor software compared to the competition (just compare Ridge Racer on PSX to Saturn's crap Daytona port), mainly due to Saturn's shitty hardware.

>And if you could go back in time and change something about how SEGA handled the Saturn, what would it be?
Delay the Saturn until A) they had a better GPU for handling 3D so they wouldn't have to throw in two CPUs which made developing games more of a pain, B) come up with better devkits that could do C, not just ASM, and C) make the cart port B/C with Genesis games since it already had a 68k processor in there.

>>7714104
>I didn't even know the console existed in the 90's
>it's surprising that Saturn owners today wouldn't recognize him.
>the 90's
>today
Nice reading comprehension.

>>7714138
He beat people up who weren't playing saturn. In some commercials he threw giant oversized saturns on top of them. Like, hey you have to go to the hospital now but you can take this with you.

>>7714308
Sega basically was bullying kids into moving on from the mega drive. Play the Saturn or break a bone.

>>7714328
I thought it was to make a clear distinction that the Saturn would be a jap-centric system whereas the Mega Drive was considered very American because of its performance overseas

>>7714259
>Nice reading comprehension.
He said, failing to read before the first comma of my post.

>>7714168
american branch got severe cold feet when it came to moving on from the genesis, this informed the sloppy start to the next gen. The later leadership of SoA failed to recognize the platforms strengths and capitalize on them. It absolutely offered games the other platforms did not, unique experiences, but there doesn't seem to be any serious pushes to get peoople to actually play them. Saturn needed a bit more honesty in its marketing, embracing its strengths and differentiating it as the enthusiast platform. It likely never would have gotten the N64's sales in America, and obviously nowhere near the PS1's, but stressing its strong points would have expanded the market and given it a much more stable position. At the end of the day just release the fucking games it did have.

>>7714368
It didn't add anything so it went unquoted. We're talking about the mascot's popularity in its prime, which would be when it's, you know, on TV. Again, nice reading comprehension

>>7714386
>which would be when it's, you know, on TV.
Not on my continent.

>>7714253
>Poor software compared to the competition (just compare Ridge Racer on PSX to Saturn's crap Daytona port
Cancelling 32X and having a better launch would have solved that.
>mainly due to Saturn's shitty hardware.
The hardware isn't as bad as you've been lead to believe.
>Delay the Saturn until A) they had a better GPU for handling 3D
VDP1 isn't as bad as you think. Sure it's not as nice as the GTE and has it's annoying quirks, it's still quite capable.
>so they wouldn't have to throw in two CPUs which made developing games more of a pain
The dual SH-2s is the least controversial part of the Saturn's design. Anyone developing games for consoles and arcade hardware knew how to handle multiple CPUs.
> come up with better devkits that could do C, not just ASM
They had C libraries as early as 1994. What do you think SBL and SGL are? Those were out as early as 1994.
>make the cart port B/C with Genesis games since it already had a 68k processor
There's more to the Genesis than a 68k, you'd need to replicate it's VDP, YM2612, Z80, and the SN76489. The SCSP might be able to mimic the YM2612 and SN76489 with it's FM synth capabilities, but it probably wouldn't be 1:1 to just run Genesis games as is. And you'd still need the VDP and Z80.

>>7714387
That's literally my entire point. Are you simple?

>>7714397
>That's literally my entire point
Your point was it was the greatest vidya advertisement campaign of all time. I don't think that's true, because nobody outside of Japan had heard of him.

>>7714402
The Saturn online community was pretty small in the early 2000s. He was frequently shared on forums and videos and old /v/ and etc. I would say most Saturn owners knew who he was. It's okay if you didn't, I think most of us took the novelty of the silly Japanese ad for granted and stopped talking about it for a few years and newcomers don't really know a lot of the stuff that was popular in the old Saturn group today.

>>7714402
That wasn't my point, I wasn't even the guy that posted that. This isn't guess who
My point is that he is a well known and respected mascot,
>in Japan,
because he had a
>Japanese game,
and a
>Japanese ad campaign reboot

You didn't even bother asking what criteria defines the "best advertising campaign ever", you assumed that it was based on international recognition. For a Japanese mascot.

Can you name an ad campaign that rebooted an old mascot AND gave them a protege? I'd argue the only reason a company would do that is if it was a successful campaign in the first place.

Not to mention that, as a character, he stands head and shoulders over any other mascot. Please, I'd like to know what mascot you had in mind that caused you to differ.

>>7714425
>You didn't even bother asking what criteria defines the "best advertising campaign ever", you assumed
lmao, jesus you're a faggot, no wonder you've got such an unhealthy attachment to a failed marketing campaign.

ok guys.... let's all get along in this "comfy" thread...

>>7714439
>I have no response so I'm going to belittle you instead
That's nice.

>>7714464
what would a toejam & earl game on saturn have been like?

>>7714478
Kino

>>7714478
It would be funky, presumably. I've always wanted to see a remake of the original title akin to Back in the Groove but without the flash-esque motion tweening animation. I dunno what it is about that animation that puts me off so much, probably because it looks really lazy

Anybody know any Saturn games that ooze pure American Genesis era 'tude? Don't say Bug!

>>7714515
Scud the Disposable Assassin comes to mind

>>7710101
>1997
>At a friends house playing his brothers sega saturn
>Friends mom is hot
>Shes in her night gown i see her nipples
>My 10 year old brain is haywiring
>Friend falls asleep
>I jackoff into the saturns disc drive
>Nobody finds out until his brother gets home the next day
>He doesn't know what it is
>Friends mom knows what it is
>Im never allowed at their house again.

>>7714515

Three Dirty Dwarves, for sure.

>>7714523
what'd she look like?

>>7714104
>I may have been vaguely old enough for 4chin before I bought a Saturn

>>7714759
I've been here since 2005.

what y'all been playing? I just started policenauts and it's awesome

Been playing Saturn Bomberman Fight recently. I think it might have a better battle mode than Saturn Bomberman.

>>7711134
dragon force

you guys lied to me. this game is terrible

>>7716619
better than the adventure games, desu

>>7716658
both are terrible but 3D blast is still worse

>>7716619
Play the directors cut

>>7716719
doesnt fix the shit levels

>>7716619
https://youtu.be/uVVb8hOyQnQ
sorry but this is pure soul

I'm the one that brought the game up last thread, I get that it's not the best sonic game but I was way more impressed with it than I expected to be, I'd only played the genesis version emulated on that official sega comp disk before. I thought the graphics were much cooler smoothed out on this version, and controlling with the 3D pad made the movement a lot more precise. I never really cared too much for the genesis version but now that I own this I was more invested and beat the game in one sitting. The levels are full of secrets and I've already come back to it three times now looking for everything I've missed.

It kind of reminds me of one of my favorite NES games, Snake Rattle 'n' Roll. I love that game so it's hard to not like this for me when it's got similar isometric maps and collecting involved.

>>7716820
yes, the soundtrack is good. but the level design is absolutely atrocious. Spring stadium just throws springs everywhere with spikes that you have to rapidly jump over and random spears shooting out of the ground, the snow and lava levels add absolutely nothing interesting to do besides a flame shield, and the factory levels are just horrendous with the spinning turrets and slanted platforming

the bosses are even worse, its just running around aimlessly waiting for eggman to drop low enough to jump on his dome

Dimes

>>7714168
South america didn't get their anime games.

I don't get the appeal.

The stick is decent but the size makes it feel cramped, the buttons aren't the best, and the d-pad feels way more stiff than the stock J pad.

>>7717318
DUDE NIGHTS LMAO

trying to compile a tier system for saturn legit CIB prices (with corona tax) (though these aren't likely to go down). This is the rough ball park. No imports because everybody already knows imports are cheaper 95% of the time.

Tier 0: $10-29, sampler discs in paper sleeves.
Tier 1: $30-59, mostly sports games and common racers.
Tier 2: $60-89, mostly platformers, a few FPS games, these are usual multi plat titles
Tier 3: $90-$199, most console exclusives, most "hidden gems"
Tier 4: $200-450, collector fodder, most working designs games.
Tier 5: $451-1500, mentally ill prices, alarm bells ringing indicating financial irresponsibility, Magic Knight Rayearth and some other games.

Thank God we have other options.

>>7717318
I like it more than the dreamcast overall.

>>7717321
Agreed.

>the saturn shitposter is an amigacuck
Lmao

>>7718146
Yes, even the Amiga is better than that worthless failure, the Sega Shiturn.

>>7718478
Better at having garbage games sure lol

>>7718478
so are you a coprophiliac or what

>>7718490
Well he likes euro pc trash so yes.

>>7718486
*laughs in Amiga's glorious and superiour library*

>>7717321
Honestly, NiGHTS plays a lot better with a D-pad. However, the 3d pad is useful for games that benefit from analog control such as Sega Touring Car Championship, which also utilizes the analog triggers

>>7718514
Troddlers on the SNES was more fun than Lemmings... honestly none of those games are good.

>>7718514
>Multiplats
I'd rather play Lemmings on a Palm Pilot

>>7718514
The games worth playing in that shot are either on the Saturn or available in better forms on other platforms.

>>7718529
>playing computer games on a console

Just end your life already, Shiturncel. You are so hilariously stupid that your existence is as inconsequential and unimportant and a waste of everyone's time as your favourite console, the piece of fucking Shiturn. Now do us all a favour and blow yourself up with some dynamite whilst holding your Shiturn and your games for it.

>>7718572
Amiga will never be taken seriously lmao

>>7718572
*dials 911*
Yes police? There's a wild autist on the loose.

>>7718572
why are you european

>>7710101
>no bernie posting
Agreed. No need to say such harsh things about Sega's best president.

>>7718572
I'm sorry your microcomputer threads have zero poster retention

>>7718597
*Sega's worst president

Fixed.

bros what happened here?

>>7719838

>>7711134
It had good games. The N64 was a pretty barren system and the PS1 was and still is king of the castle that generation. That being said, the saturn has loads of niche, great games on it that never got ported anywhere. So it stays plugged in a lot for me.

>>7720057
dunno, people can't read apparently

sorry if dumb question but I just got a satiator, if I have one of those chinese pre flashed pseudo saturn carts do I need to get a regular AR cart to use with it?

>>7720067
>laser sight light gun
Wouldn't it bounce off the screen and get in your eyes? What is this madness?

>>7720228
I don't think the Satiator needs anything else. Could be wrong but I thought that was the point.

>>7720810
can I save games directly onto sd card? cool if so

>>7720228
you can flash the cart to put whatever firmware you want on it. Once you already have the cart, or the satiator, flashing isn't a problem. Seems a bit unnecessary though.

>>7720827
I think so.

>>7711134
Back then my original Playstation would only play games turned to strange angles and would eventually fail or desynchronize with the audio. So the Saturn became my primary system for multiplats+exclusives, opposed to the Playstation's exclusives. It also really helped that all the Saturn games were in clearance bins, so I got a lot of games and was able to get into a lot of them. As for introducing Saturn games to friends, don't force them, but get them together for a few rounds of Saturn Bomberman. It should be a pretty good time.

>>7717361
It is surprising to see the prices now, since back then they were all relegated to the back/unseen side of stores with huge markdowns due to the popularity of the N64 and Playstation. It makes me glad I was there.

Why were the replies to my post (>>7710139) deleted?

Just got Dead or Alive

>>7714168
SoJ literally slowed down manufacturing and sales, because they were losing too much on each sale.

>>7714393
>The hardware isn't as bad as you've been lead to believe.
>VDP1 isn't as bad as you think.
The VDP1 had a fifth of the speed of the Playstation, and for every feature you turned on, you had to turn another feature off.

They could've run the Playstation 1 off of a 68k and it would still have more impressive graphics than the Saturn. The graphics hardware matters just that much.

Does someone have a list of recommended SAT games? I know there's a ton of arcade ports but a lot of those weren't arcade-perfect right?

>>7723914
yeah but duuuude the vdp2 could do this infinite plane brah

>>7714168
Honestly I think it would have fared better if they had went ahead with their original launch instead of rushing it out in america and fucking over a lot of big stores cause they didn't get any stock. And they should have continued releasing games instead of just pulling out of America for nearly 2 years.

>>7711506
that's a nice bunch of games dude

>>7723937
You'll probably find some interesting stuff here.
https://youtu.be/wy_fPm2xLH8

>>7723914
Yes, VDP1 is slower than PS1's GTE. But in practice it's not as bad as you think. The guy behind this homebrew has stated numerous times he's limited not by VDP1's fill rate but by the SH-2s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI-dmi9T5vM

And in his most recent builds he's actually hitting pretty insane draw distances at 30fps and has even implemented volumetric fog.

VDP1 is quite capable of pushing a decent amount of polygons around. The bigger problem with it isn't its speed, it's the lack of things like UV Texture Coordinates, using distorted sprites, the color limitations, and the transparency issues. Those can be worked around but they require a lot of effort to do it right, which a lot of developers didn't want to take the time to do back then. A lot of games back then were rushed out in unoptimized states (Tomb Raider, Wipeout, etc.) or flat out unfinished states (House of the Dead, Sega Touring Car, etc.).
>>7723990
Actually you get 2 of them, and if you know what you're doing you can actually set up a rather complex scene using mostly VDP2. You can set up window regions of a plane to give those regions different parameters to have them drawn differently. Grandia does this to draw multiple height levels of a map using just the RBG0 layer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSHJ8x7L2rM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOsUdG8P9pg

>>7722886
God damn, the ultimate flex. I might as well just kill myself.

my saturn games:
vandal hearts
resident evil
joshikousei
bulk slash
albert odyssey
policenauts
rayearth
akumajou dracula x
vampire savior
magical drop iii
tenchi muyou
where do i go from here bros

>>7724920
>akumajou dracula x
is it true the ps1 version is better? if so, in what way?

>>7724924
slowdown and bad loading times in the saturn

>>7724924
Saturn Sotn has 5x the slowdowns, much longer loading times, no transparencies, stretched resolution, and a bunch of other graphical and performance flaws. It was ported by the same hacks who made CV Legends and two of the worst Goemon games of all time.

>>7724940
The people doing the Translation patch have pointed out that a lot of it is just bad programming. They did some really stupid shit like waste an entire background layer for dialog text. Not the Text boxes, those are VDP1, the actual text. It gets loadedinto VDP2 VRAM when the area loads and just sits there taking up a background layer the entire time, regardless of whether you encounter that cutscene or not. Another background layer is wasted on a debug text layer.

Also the game is doing a ton of useless checks during vblank which most likely is the cause of the slowdowns.

>>7717082
Based.

>>7725000
To be honest SOTN is built so much with polygon effects in mind, that it's very difficult to offload the backgrounds to the VDP2 without recoding the entire game.

>>7724901
>VDP1 is slower than PS1's GTE.
VDP1 is a pixel plotter and GTE is a co-processor for matrix calculations. I stopped reading your post right there because you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

don't die cozy saturn thread!

I cant believe Death Crimson supports the Saturn's Shuttle Mouse but they didn't bother to include a binding to let you reload. They should've went all the way like Virtua Cop or not even recognize the device at all like HOTD1

>>7713306
I’ve tried this game before but could never manage to beat france. Any tips?

>>7710101
Among the recommended games for Saturn, does any of the famous saturn emulators runs all of them well? I remember some years ago how the Saturn emulator was not that good compared to the n64 and ps1 ones, but how it looks like now? Is there any important Saturn game that I'd not be able to play on emulator?

>>7728164
Yes, planes and artillery. Basically use your paratroops (they can convert to a plane if you park them on an airport) to capture enemy airports and bomb the shit out of them. On the first level in particular you want to eliminate the Belgians in a few turns by destroying their base.

Here's my in progress Typhoon.

>>7728194
Interesting. I think I’ll give it another shot

>>7728451
I think I replayed the first mission four or five times before things really "clicked" for me. It's one of those games where after a certain point you feel like completely restarting if you lose a single unit.

>>7724901
>Actually you get 2 of them,
If you count the alternate plane then you can get three max.

>>7726729
>I stopped reading your post right there
Your basically making the same argument as the pic related. Regardless of what the PS1 GPU is called, the point made in the post still stands. VDP1 may be slower in raw fillrate but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

>>7726729
>To be honest SOTN is built so much with polygon effects in mind
And I think you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. SotN on both PS1 and Saturn uses 2D Tile based rendering for the vast majority of the graphics. PS1 actually can draw rectangular 2D sprites which is what SotN uses to draw most of the graphics. Those background layers could have easily been converted to tilemaps to be used as VDP2 layers, instead the devs wasted 2 whole layers for text.

Just got Mega Man X4 lads

>>7714168
Cancel the 32X, discontinue the SEGA CD, make an alliance with either SONY or Microsoft and possibly acquire some SGI prototypes before Nintendo got a hold of them.

>>7729346
the games tell a different story. PS1 gte chip was a lot more powerful

>>7729529
Set R to dash and you're perfect

>>7729369
Yeah look at all the rectangular sprites on this background for example.

>>7729346
>Regardless of what the PS1 GPU is called, the point made in the post still stands.

Yeah, well if you disregard the proper terminology, then the flux drive of the PS1 is still both faster and easier to use while the Saturn hyperplotter is both significantly slower and is starved of stolariums. That's why most games decided to use the Leonardo chip for its Great Plains effect, but if you use that, you either can't give it any z-indexes (if you want to see-through effect on the fairies), or if you give it Z depth then you can't use Highcolor sprites which means you can't use Phong Shading unless you manually set up every shade one by one on the SCSP.

What's the status of the emulation scene around this console? I've never been a sega fan nor ever played this thing, but I love the soundchip and aesthetic of the graphics and am curious about this system. Isn't an emulator being made for it?

hey bros can anybody tell me what the difference is between "Saturn Bomberman Collection" (pictured here) and the normal Japanese import Saturn Bomberman (seen somewhere in this dude >>7710276's collection)?

I thought this might be the netlink version, but that one has a totally different cover, while this one is basically the same cover as the original but with a white border? Why are there 3 versions of this game in Japan alone?

>>7730484
No difference other than booklet cd/cover artwork. Those red ribbon versions were budget re-releases, plenty of games got them.

>>7730515
Wow, that's gay as fuck, people are selling it higher than the original.

>>7730521
It's more rare.
And for some games they are cheaper because people want the originale deluxxe edition.

>>7710101

>>7730417
There are emulators, they're fine. Just buy original hardware from Japan and burn your games.

American saturn > Japanese saturn

my saturn looks beautiful next to all my black audio and video equipment.

>>7730227
>This one room uses polygons!
Ok, what about the rest of the castle?
>>7730245
>No! I can't move on from you saying GTE instead of GPU!! I have to keep ridiculing you instead of addressing your argument!
Ok. Let me know when you actually want to discuss how VDP1 holds up against the PS1 GPU.

I'm surprised that nobody has claimed that Saturn is a 2D system which takes 3d by warping sprites. If I had a nickle...

>>7713394
Underrated

>>7713394
>>7733051

Releasing Japan exclusives in the states wouldnt have helped Saturn. It would have made it better for a handful of weebs who frequent /vr, but normies wouldn't have bought it over ps1 for some jap shmups, RPGs and dating Sims.

>>7733625
>implying catering to bro gamers is a good thing
You'd have a point if sales had anything to do with the retrospective enjoyment of a system.

>>7733625
Honing in on any consoles strengths helps it out. If there's one thing Saturn had in Japan that it wasn't getting stateside it was games. Speaking of games, I'm very eager to finish my move and get back to playing Saturn. I want to play more Time Bokan and Guardian Force.

>>7710101
This is the worst Sega console of all time. I was loyal to Sega till this came out. There was no excuse to lose to Sony. Sega had excellent franchises yet they lost to a VCR manufacturer. I'll never forgive and I will lose sleep over this till the day I die.

>>7735635
Why are you mad about corporate culture from twenty-some years ago? It sounds like you've based your opinion on the popularity of the games and system rather than the merit of the games and system.

>>7735643
I reserve my right to be angry. The console was shit, the games are shit and you know it. PSX came out with major hits and market dominance on their first try yet Sega floundered in mediocrity. There were no excuses.

>>7736647
I didn't say you aren't allowed, I'm asking why you're spending the energy. Your words have seemingly confirmed what I suspected. Just saying.

>>7736647
They why do I like my Saturn more than my PS5?
I guess the Saturn must have games.

>>7730417
they should have made the cop an orc

Saturn > anything that sony has shat out since 1994.

>>7738810

aw come on. I love the saturn and everything but shitting on ps1?

The controller is really the only good thing about the system. Everything else was incredibly lackluster.

>>7739439
zoomzoom

>>7739439
>>7740118
Does anyone make after market controllers that steal the saturn d-pad? The pad on the dreamcast and 360 suck.

live on, comfy saturn thread

How do we keep the Zoomers out of the used sega console market?

>>7744857
Isn't it a good thing for zoomers to be interested in oldschool Sega?

>>7744879
No, they'll probably just use it as background dressing for an onlyfans.

Hey saturn bros which onlyfans accounts have good saturn related content?

>>7745082
Mine, please donate.

Looks like progress is being made on the Saturn Translation of Soul Hackers.

Cross posting this but check out the ad that came with my Daisenryaku Soviet.

>>7745379
I just thought this was cool to come with a used game from the mid 90s.

trying to compile a list of games that i'll like and play to put on my ode
not a huge rpg fan which i guess that works out, i have most of the games i think i'd like but need to purge a few of the random odd ball rpgs i'll never play
any recs
like just about anything save for jrpgs

>>7717318
>>7717321
anyone try this with Duke Nukem and the alternate control scheme?

>>7746017
I mean if you like strategy I love shilling for Iron Storm.

>>7745379
Dark Savior? Neat

I'm a retard. Now I'm going to try collecting working design games.

I only want Albert Odyssey and Magic Knight Rayearth. God. MKR sold for $400 four years ago.

>>7746245
I passed up a $125 CIB Albert Odyssey last week :(

>>7746245
I mentioned on a different thread but a long time ago I got my MKR from Funcoland and I only paid like 70-80 which at the time I thought was too expensive. And I don't bring that up to brag because honestly as much as I love the game and series it kind of sickens me. There are days when I feel tempted to just sell my whole collection but I know it would just end up in some scalpers hands and I don't want that.

>>7746245
>>7746335
>>7746232
> Paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for games

Take the ODE pill, play any game you want without spending half a paycheck on it.

>>7746491
Sorry, but in the case of Working Designs games, your iso doesn't compare to the real deal. Everybody should play them by any means necessary, but a legit copy is valuable for a reason. My burned CDrs are a pathetic cope in comparison to based granite counter poster's collection.

>>7746491
A mod chip is only one wire. They have no excuse

>>7746502
I have a mod and legit cib games.

>>7746491
I've been talking with a few of my collector friends and honestly I think we've both just sort of gotten tired of it or just hit a real financial wall regarding it. We were fortunate to manage to hang on to a lot of our collections or grab shit before it got this retarded but now that we're close to basically having everything we want we're kind of wondering what the point of it all is. Like it's nice to have them and I love admiring them from time to time, but there are days or even weeks were we won't even pay it any mind at all. And when it boils down to it if all we wanted to do was play the games, then there's far easier ways to do it. Odes and Pseudo have made it easier than ever to just have fun and play the games.

>>7746497
I admit that WD titles typically went above and beyond with the pack ins but at the end of the days games are only valuable because people ask and pay for them. And even with the games that had fun little feelies are you really happy paying out the ass to get some cheap little cardboard standees or a sticker sheet? It's nice but not something you can't live without and I feel like there's a line.

>>7714402
He was a big name in VGCW but ok.

>>7746497
At the end of the day it's still just a videogame.

>>7746506
>It's nice but not something you can't live without and I feel like there's a line.
Sure, you're right. I don't encourage hoarding or mindless collecting. I don't really care for "completionist" collectors who don't have a connection to the games they're getting but just want a complete set, for instance. The question of being "worth it" is going to differ for a lot of people though. I don't have a personal connection to a lot of the games and would not find it worth it, but at least one title? Yeah, I probably would find it worth it at least for Albert Odyssey, my favorite Saturn game. MKR, probably not. If its price never goes down, that game will just be forever off limits for me - but if somebody is a serious fan of the anime and manga, then it probably would be worth it to them as its frankly a miracle that localization ever even came here. But I understand and respect your opinion, we're just at two different stages of our collecting.

>>7746525
Hey I ain't saying don't grab stuff were you can but just try to think a bit more long term is all I'm saying. And if your only go is to collect it to have it then consider maybe getting the Japanese version. They're usually WAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper.

>>7746545
>consider maybe getting the Japanese version.
I wish brother, but the game has too much text and voice acting for that. I have a repro of it on CD with a nice printed label and everything but yeah I'm retarded and want a legit copy anyways.

>>7746563
learn japanese

>>7746825
I'm already 8 months in, you don't magically become fluent having random niggers online telling you to learn Japanese.

>>7746826
you will never learn japanese

>>7746834
You probably speak at a kindergarten level anyway.

>>7746489
I'd love to scalp it means I could afford to acquire the games in the first place.

>>7746491
I did this for Dreamcast but on Saturn I want the real McCoy.

>>7746497
>>7746502
>>7746504
>>7746506
My Saturn is modded but I really dig Iron Storm and wanted a copy. Also I desperately need a manual for some of the more esoteric mechanics. The nip manual is full of little SS and Commisar doodles that I want to scan but the booklet is in good condition and I don't want to flatten it.

Life is hard.

>>7746825
>learn japanese

>>7745115
they know theres a faithful 3ds port in english right? seems pointless, just learn japanese, my jp copy of the game was ten bucks

What are some unknown tier JPN only JRPGS for the Saturn?

>>7746889
I don't know, I haven't heard of them.

>>7746889
Eiyū Densetsu III Shiroki Majo

>>7746898
>falcomshit
I'm not seven years old or autistic, so I'll pass.

>>7746901
Why did you even ask then? Hang yourself.

>>7746905
Cope.

>>7746052
yeah i dont mind strategy i'll take a swing looks neat.

>>7745115
Wait really? I kinda lost hope for that but if we ever get both saturn devil summoner games I'll be a happy camper.

>>7746889
marica -shinjitsu no sekai-

>>7746889
Monica no Shiro

>>7747831
Well why is nobody translating this instead?!

>>7747831
>>7747912
>Well why is nobody translating this instead?!
It looks stupid.

>>7748538
>looks stupid
My favorite kind of game

>>7747831
>Those screenshots
ah the quintessential Japanese gaming experience

>>7748569
>>7748572
I mean, sure, fine, but you get what I mean.

>>7747831
>exploding van

>>7746884
They're pulling the script from the 3DS version. Some people just want to play the Saturn version in English.

>>7730616
man I miss the 90's so goddamn much

>>7748998
you and me both, bro

>>7748998
>>7749721
Don't cry brehs, smile that you can lord it over the zoomers forever that you remember what once was.

>>7749862
where's the saturn?

>>7749901
Where indeed?

>>7749862
Ah the 90's last time DBZ was good

>>7748998
same desu

My early teenage crush Megan was big into No Doubt. I looked her up when I was in my early 20s and she turned into a complete smokeshow. I tried to look her up again when I hit 30 and couldn't find her at all. I think she may have died. If you're out there Megan thanks for letting me crash at your place all those times when your mom was out of town and my mom was on yet another raging bender.

Is magic school lunar translation still being worked on?

>>7749960
I was looking for that.

Vandal Hearts just got another update to the english patch version btw.

>>7746017
im this anon, i've figured it out and am really happy with my current saturn library
think the only two jrpgs i have are saga and MKR. everything else is beat em up, shmup, racing or puzzle and i'm extremely content and feel like i can choose anything and enjoy it
thanks for reading my blog

>>7752193
What's in the update? I was thinking of starting that soon.

>>7753159
No idea. I downloaded it and it was 1.2 a few days ago and now it's 1.5

Are any of you faglords recording Saturn gameplay? If so, what equipment are you using?

>>7753853
Just play through your VCR and record.

>>7729369
SOTN relies on all graphics being in the framebuffer so it can freely add shading and transparency on top of anything to achieve special effects like limited motion blur, a light effect that pulsates in a circular motion or in waves, etc (see pic). It also includes bigass sprites (or however you feel like defining them) as either large objects or the background itself. The lava cave comes to mind, but also the bell tower or the clouds scrolling past the moon.

Saturn version omits or simplifies most of that because it has a clusterfuck of a hardware design that prevents you from using all of its effects AT THE SAME TIME. Such as: sprite transparency, sprite to background transparency, drawing sprites behind and over backgrounds at the same time, using shading based effects on anything, and using high colour count effects. It can do only about half of either at the same time. Unless you go to extreme lengths and design your game in a way to hide said limitations. SOTN could not do that because it was designed for a hardware that can do all of that at the same time.

For that reason, even if they used extra VDP2 layers for graphics, the game would still look like ass. What they would've needed was to rebuild every effect and a lot of backgrounds from ground up around the native abilities of the console. Then it would've looked as good as, say, Silhouette Mirage, at best.

>PS1 actually can draw rectangular 2D sprites
It actually can't. What it can do is do a memory transfer from one point of the vram to another, such as texture to framebuffer. This is something like twice as fast because it omits the entire GPU pipeline, but in return you can't add transparency or shading, you don't get dithering, and I'm not even sure if you can resize the sprite.

>>7746048
>anyone try this with Duke Nukem and the alternate control scheme?

Most of us who played DN3D and Quake on the Saturn did. It controls great, basically like a modern console FPS.

>>7710101
Is there any multiplatform game that Saturn has the better version? SotN is a weird thing since one console has more content but the other plays better.

>>7753942
SotN was a horribly rushed port, which is why it runs like shit on the Saturn. It's a shame too, because the "third hand" alone makes it so much nicer to play (no more retarded "go into your menu, go to items, unequip your shield, equip a potion, exit the menu, use the potion, go back to the menu, enter items, re-equip your shield"), and the exclusive Maria gameplay is fun. The Saturn exclusive areas are just so/so though.

As for games where the Saturn version has an advantage:

- Resident Evil
Has a Battle Mode that the PS1 version lacks

- Vandal Hearts
Has better graphical effects

- Grandia
Looks and runs better on the Saturn

- Tomb Raider
Has a farther draw distance as well as better water effects on the Saturn

- Rayman
Has graphical effects that the PS1 version lacks

- Powerslave
Looks and runs better on the Saturn

- Duke Nukem 3D
Performs much better on the Saturn than the PS1, but the PS1 version has a few Build engine specific features that the Saturn doesn't (movable sectors) and an exclusive episode

And we can't forget

- Literally every 2D Fighting game
Capcom's games especially, the PS1 versions had to be butchered to fit in the console's measly 2MB of RAM. Tons of frames of character animation, background details, characters, or even entire game modes had to be chopped for the PS1 versions.

>>7724901
Listen, I love my Saturn, love it to bits, but it's not a great system.

It's well documented from developers how hard it was to work with at the time, especially for home game developers who had little to no experience with dual CPUs, and it didn't help that for early devs, dev kits required two 15k workstations, just for debugging. ( So most games only really utilized on SH-2).

Sure you could do some cool stuff on the Saturn with a ton of grit and effort, or SEGA's own arcade division, but with a fraction if that effort, you could out something out on the PSX and it would:
1. Look better
2. Run better
3. Sell more
4. Cost you less to out out

The Saturn was a disaster in all fronts, as much as I love the thing, and get tons of enjoyment out of it, it is an ugly slowdown machine that rarely does transparencies even though it is technically capable of them in a limited capacity.

>>7753959
Tomb Raider runs like ass though.

>>7753972
Tomb Raider runs at 30fps in most areas, but it will absolutely dip down to 20 in some spots, and will absolutely tank in the Cistern level. This happens on both systems. The PS1 version for some reason doesn't dip as often, but when it does the framerate seems to tank even harder than on the Saturn for some reason.

The European version of Tomb Raider on the Saturn was rushed to shit, and I think that's where a lot of people got the notion that the Saturn version doesn't perform well (that and people doing "framerate comparisons" that only include the first attract sequence instead of during normal gameplay.

>>7753979
My biggest issue is actually the controls. The platforming doesn't feel good because you always need a running jump, just facing a wall and pushing forward makes her jump in place.

>>7720067
That Bernie quote flies in the face of his other one. He says the Saturn is the future.

>Street Fighter III

>>7753942
>Is there any multiplatform game that Saturn has the better version?

Every Capcom and SNK game, every shmup, Silhouette Mirage...

>>7753986
That's because, like in real life, you have to gain momentum before jumping longer distances.

Tomb Raider's movement is exactingly precise, that's what is so good about it. You automatically know how far you can jump. You can come across a gap and look at it and know whether you can make it with a normal jump, a running jump, and whether you'll clear the gap or will have to grab the ledge.

It's a level of player to character control that has been lost in the modern age of bing bing wahoo 3d platformers.

>>7753959
PS1 Grandia actually runs better than Saturn Grandia, but Saturn Grandia still looks better for sure. Just a lot of slowdown, especially in that starting town.

Duke Nukem also has a ton of slowdown in Saturn. The N64 version is preferable on the consoles, if you aren't doing the PC version.

Keep in mind, the Saturn also only had 2MB RAM, it was only expanded with those packs. Even then a lot of those games had slowdown, or fucked up audio. The few ports that are about as good as you can get are:
SF Alpha II and Gold
SF Zero III
Cyberbots
X-Men vs SF (Minor slowdown)
MSHvsSF (Minor Slowdown)
Pocket Fighter
Vampire Savior

Only the first game I listed didn't make use of the 4MB Ram cart.

All the Neo Geo games (save for Twinkle Star Sprites) are better on a Neo Geo, which is plenty accessible, even the NGCD is readily available, especially with that Neo SD Loader.

>>7753920
Very well said and informative post.

>I'm not even sure if you can resize the sprite.
You can't. You're stuck using 8x8 or 16x16 "tiles." Major speed boost at the expense of flexibility as you stated.

>>7754008
>The N64 version is preferable on the consoles
lol, the N64 version has godawful controls, runs like shit, is too blurry to see anything, was censored, and doesn't have any music.

I'll give it props for having splitscreen multiplayer, but the Saturn version has online play (and is still playable online today).

>>7754012
Still runs and controls better than the Saturn version haha. And isn't even all that blurry. The visuals on the Saturn are rough, especially side by side having loaded them up in the same CRT back to back the other day.

I also did this with Quake, thinking, "Well, maybe the Quake version will look better in Saturn because it's sharper" but you can load up Quake 64 and just turn off the blur filter in the menu, and now it is sharp and much better looking, running, everything over the Saturn.

The N64 had it's share of slowdown, absolutely, but Doom, Duke Nukem, and Quake all ran pretty decently on the 64, and like total ass on The Saturn.

Love my Saturn, and the Xband guys did cool shit with the Netlink, that stuff is a miracle, but local co-op and deathwatch Duke is and was an absolute blast back in the day. Number one reason we played that version, even when we had a decent PC with Duke on it.

>>7754036
>Still runs and controls better than the Saturn version haha. And isn't even all that blurry.

Pure, uncut, 100% natural, all organic, gluten free, no artificial colors or flavors, low calorie
vitamin D enriched nintenyearold cope, right here

>Doom, Duke Nukem, and Quake all ran pretty decently on the 64, and like total ass on The Saturn
Doom runs like ass on the Saturn because John Carmack is an autist and demanded the game run in software mode on the system, which means the devs were unable to actually utilize any of the advanced capabilities of the machine. Quake on the Saturn pushes more level geometry than the N64 port does, and still manages to look closer to the PC version than the vaseline graphics of the N64 version.

Dook runs better on the Saturn than any other home console of the era. The Slavedriver engine was specifically built for the Saturn, and they rebuilt DN3D on it instead of porting Build like the PS1 devs did, which is why it runs smoother and supports portals/level on level better than any other version (at the cost of having moving sectors, so all of the doors are Star Trek style instead of actual swinging doors, because Slavedriver didn't support that feature).

Between DN3D, Quake, Hexen, Alien Trilogy, and Powerslave the Saturn was weirdly enough your best option if you wanted to play console ports of major PC shooters in the mid 90s. If Doom hadn't suffered from Carmack's autism than it would have been a solid port as well (think about it, there is no reason why a console that can run Quake should be having such a problem running Doom).

The N64 didn't even get real Doom, Doom 64 was a completely different game.

>>7753993
>It's a level of player to character control that has been lost in the modern age of bing bing wahoo 3d platformers.
No, it's just clunky. My complaint isn't that you have to run to clear gaps, I'm annoyed that when I'm standing in front of a ledge I can't just jump and grab.

>>7754386
You can jump forward and grab from a standing position dummy. You just have to get a running start if you want to jump farther. It's not clunky, you're just bad at videogames.

>>7754065
Just stop it dude, I own all the multiplat FPS games for the 64 and have them on my Saturn as well and they all run better on the 64. The only one I would slightly give Saturn the edge for is Hexen. Duke Nukem and Quake are night and day difference on the 64, and you will never ever convince me that the Saturn versions look or play better when I have them here and can see them with my own eyes. It's okay, the Saturn doesn't have to be an id FPS machine, it has its own unique library outside of PC game ports.

Also have no idea why you are so combative here when the person you responded to was rather civil in their disagreement.

>>7754065
>The N64 didn't even get real Doom, Doom 64 was a completely different game.
And yet it's one of the best doom games ever. Saturn developers didn't have the balls to create an entirely new entry for Quake or Doom.

>>7754423
Because nintoddlers get supremely butthurt whenever someone insults their precious N64, to the point where they lie about how games look and play on it (as you have).

You're right about Duke and Quake being night and day, on one console you can actually see what you're doing, and on the other one all you see is a blurry mess. Stop lying to defend bad ports on the N64. It was 25 years ago, grow up.

>>7754451
>Saturn developers didn't have the balls to create an entirely new entry for Quake or Doom.
cope

Doom 64 was a mess. Low res textures, terrible level design, goofy looking redesigns of the enemies, terrible weapons, and visuals made by artists who think "too dark to see anything = atmosphere". The only way to reasonably play it is a modern port so you can actually see what you are doing. Couple that with the worst controller in the history of post-crash videogames and you have a complete wreck of a game that is only novel because it was different. Not good, but different.

>>7754456
Come on, you're full of shit. Duke and Quake on the Saturn are too sharp and start dithering with too much movement, the pixels end up blurry and undefined, while the n64 isn't blurry at all and has smooth graphics that don't dither while you move.

The guy you're arguing with wasn't even a "nintendrone" or "nintentoddler", seeing as he presumably owned an xband back in the day (sounds like an oldschool Saturn owner to me). You're just console warring and unfortunately I've bit your bait. We're both ruining the comfy thread now.

>>7754473
>Duke and Quake on the Saturn are too sharp and start dithering with too much movement, the pixels end up blurry and undefined, while the n64 isn't blurry at all and has smooth graphics that don't dither while you move.

Confirmed for not playing either game on either console. What you have posted is flat out wrong.

>>7754482
Do I need to record my CRT?

>>7754485
You don't have either game, on either console, or a CRT. If you did, you would know that what you posted is complete bullshit.

>>7754496
Cope harder, they're both hooked up to the same TV, I own Duke, Quake, and Hexen on the 64 as well as their saturn ports.

>>7754512
> Imagine lying about how badly N64 games run on the internet

You are pathetic.

>>7754534
Okay. I guess we're done here, comfy thread from here on.

>>7754541
As long as you understand the fact that both games run like ass and look like vaseline on the N64, than fine.

Comfy thread from here on out :^)

>>7710101
> Burning CDRs in 2021

Imagine...

Who else /ODE/ here? My Saturn has a MODE in it and it's the best upgrade I have ever made.

>>7754065
>Doom runs like ass on the Saturn because John Carmack is an autist and demanded the game run in software mode on the system
No, it's because Jim Bagley didn't know what he was doing. He may have been a good ZX Spectrum programmer, but he was a retarded Saturn programmer. Anyone who knows how to do things on the Saturn scratches their head at the stupid shit that port is doing. Honestly his sob story sounds more like trying to point fingers and relying on fuzzy memories of Carmack and Romero to get away with it.

Saturn is perfectly capable of running Doom in Software mode. Hexen for example runs the Doom Engine in software mode and renders everything to a VDP2 layer. And then the 32X runs Doom in software mode on the same dual SH-2 set up but clocked slower with now video hardware, less RAM, and using one of the SH-2s for audio only.

>>7754897
Carmack himself has admitted it, and said that he made a mistake and should have let the developers finish it as it was presented.

It seems kind of strange that we never got a homebrew port of Doom. Saturn Doom runs like jelly covered ass, so you'd think someone out there would want to right that wrong.

Just so we're clear:

Saturn Quake: https://youtu.be/RI0Q0VWOp3E

Quake 64: https://youtu.be/56idvgKOE34

Props to Saturn Quake for existing at all, props for the cool intro scene, props for keeping the original difficulty and level select screens. But just in the intro, watch the walls: you will see pixels flickering and blurring with motion. In the levels, look at the hallways and see how they warp as the player moves forward. Look at the flickering of the ceilings and walls all throughout the game. Notice the frame rate drops. Then compare all of this to the 64 version which has a smooth and rounded look to it, with colorful lighting, 3D weapons, and even less frame drops than the Saturn despite the 64 being notorious for slow framerate.

Is it really up for discussion which console handled 3D engines better? The N64 is notorious for its almost exclusively 3D catalogue. The Saturn did 3D well when it could, but everybody knows it has the reputation of a 2D powerhouse and that 2D is where it excelled.

It's okay if Saturn's quake isn't the best port. It has many other games in its catalogue and we don't really have to defend to the death a Saturn port of a multiplat PC original.

>>7755494
lol, the N64 version can't even handle basic level geometry. It's also lacking tons of lighting effects. It's a blurry hackjob.

>>7755545
Yet the hallways don't warp when you move nor did the levels have to be shrunk down. The n64 is brighter than the left and has more colorful lighting, just look at the second level. You can also turn on the unfiltered mode to look just like the Saturn but I prefer the smoother look here. Not to mention that the control is better and that there are less frame drops.

Also, this

>>7755602
Quake 64 has texture warping as well, it's just not as noticeable.

>>7755619
Considering the N64 version absolutely butchers the maps by removing significant amounts of level geometry, it's not a surprise that it has fewer areas with big framerate dips.

>>7754473
>the n64 isn't blurry at all

That's an oxymoron.

>>7710101
The saturn is the only Console i cant bring myself to like.
I just don't likes library. Even with emulation like it is now.
Its also weird all these 2d games that japan got all mostly got ported to the ps1
>Play dodonpachi bro its a 2d saturn game
Check my ps1 Games
>Oh i already got it
Not shitting on it but i just don't like its library and tried really hard to like it

>>7754008
>Keep in mind, the Saturn also only had 2MB RAM, it was only expanded with those packs.

Saturn had that partitioned to 1m fast and 1m slow ram (but that only really mattered to 3d games), and it also had a dedicated tilemapper with 512KB VRAM available to it.
Even if it never got the RAM expansions, it still could've pulled off CPS2 and Neogeo ports twice as good as the Playstation.

>>7755653
The Saturn port looks sharp when it's not moving, when it is moving the sprites lose their definition and blur much more noticeably than on the 64 where the textures are smoother (see >>7755619).
I get that the 64 is blurrier overall, but this is greatly reduced when played on a CRT as the anti aliasing was designed for these screens. Overall the game is much more stable and it doesn't have any extra blur outside of the 64's inherent limitations, while the Saturn blurs almost all the time because it can barely handle the engine.

>>7755642
Concessions. Could it be that the port which has less frequent frame drops and warping is better than the port that has more?

>>7755619
That is way more playable than tomb raider and about on par with goldeneye and such.

>>7755689
>the Saturn blurs almost all the time because it can barely handle the engine.
I haven't really participated in this argument but I've seen it said several times so I'll just note: the Saturn Quake "port" uses the Powerslave engine, which means it's not a port at all but it's own thing.

>>7755692
No it isn't. Just on the Saturn alone Duke Nukem and Hexen run way better than this. Just look at the same level on the 64 version. Saturn had way better FPS games than Quake. It's impressive for Saturn standards, not 5th gen standards.

>>7755668
That's funny I feel the same way about the Dreamcast instead.

>>7755698
Yes I know that, I meant that the games internal engine is too powerful for the Saturn, I didn't mean to imply that it used the same engine as the PC original but I know the word port muddies the convo up again.

Powerslave is actually a good game imo.

>>7755702
I don't know mang, I popped in TR last week and found it a lot less readable than that quake shootout. A lot of that is the art, no doubt, but still.

>>7755712
I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that it's an apples/oranges comparison to some extent, but it seems everyone knows.

>>7755437
>Carmack himself has admitted it
In a vague "I don't really remember this but sure I guess I should have let them experiment" kind of tone. If the 32X can run Software rendered Doom then so can the Saturn.
Also, Bagley's final version of Doom is still using VDP1 to draw it all with the hardware, it's just doing it in a very VERY stupid way. Tons of user clipping commands and what not which really kill VDP1 performance.
>>7755619
Please link to the source this comes from. As it looks like it's been altered to make it look worse than it really is.

>>7755545
The N64 version really suffers from having dick for texture memory here. Every wall is the same texture. It looks like shit.

>>7755704
I could see that. Everyones got that one console they just don't like . Alot of its games got ported to the gamecube/xbox

One game i love on the dreamcast is Expendable. Launch title.

ITs like a over head shmup or something akin to Super Smash TV on the SNES and that shit is amazing

Basic random story, then you're thrown into the action shooting fuckin robots and aliens and shit,

Think it was a launch title.

>>7755812
I'll see if I have it already, otherwise the only thing I've put on my ODE cart is 240p suite.

>>7710162
that's so fucking cute I love it. God bless you anon.

>>7714151
no sir, it's genuinely plug n play which I love a lot. Only downsides so far are the fact that natively it does not support save files transferring from one disc to another (P.DragoonSaga, D, etc. however there is software I believe that amends this)
Other than that the menu is bare, and sometimes I forget what game is which but there's something called a Rings menu you can get that displays boxart along with a customizable palette.
yeah it does what's advertised which is play saturn games and it does it really well.

You think a port of Tenchu Stealth Assassins would be possible?

Opened up my Saturn to clean out the insides (was worried the cartridge slot in particular needed cleaning), now my disks don't spin. I don't think the laser is broken, I think there's some transparent plastic lever thing that triggers the disk spin and I might have knocked it out of place. It's probably okay but I'm exhausted bros, I don't want to open this thing again. But I'm also paranoid I really did fuck something up lol.

he Sega Saturn is the best system of the 32 bit era. Popularity doesn't mean shit in the quality of the console.

You have Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Dragon Force, Dragon Force II, Legend of the Oasis, Guardian Heroes which you can play to this day.

You have YUji Naka's masterpieces in Nights into Dreams, Burning Rangers and Sonic Jam.

Bring the arcades home with Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, Virtua Cop 2, X-Men vs Streetfighter (arcade perfect with no loading times), Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge, Vampire Savior, Virtua Fighter 2 (60 fps hi-res), Virtual On, Fighting Vipers, Last Bronx, Metal Slug: Super Vehicle-001, The House of the Dead and Daytona USA (not a good port though).

Best shoot-em-ups in Soukyogurentai and Radiant Silvergun.

Best local multiplayer in Saturn Bomberman.

Worldwide Soccer was the best sports game in that generation.

All-Japan Pro Wrestling featuring Virtua and Fire Pro Wrestling S: 6 Men Scramble were the superior wrestling games.

There are also some nice gems like Steep Slope Sliders, Gun Griffon II and Willy Wombat.

Those who dissed the Saturn were folks who fell for the 3D hype of the PSX which is horrible in hindsight.

>>7756632
>(not a good port though).

This really made me laugh. Nice list though, I agree with a lot of it.

>>7711592
english patch never

>>7724932
>>7724924
my first playthrough was on saturn, I can't compare to ps1 or psp, but it's perfectly playable and I enjoyed the fuck out of it.

>>7755689
Saturn Quake does not do any blurring whatsoever, the hardware can't do that, it can only resize textures without filtering.
N64 meanwhile can't help it but blur everything because it can only display like 4x4 textures, and when blown up to the polygon they look like they have jello smeared all over them.

Just installed MODE and a ReSaturn PSU into a Derby Stallion model I picked up from Japanese Yahoo auction. Whacked in a 1TB SSD with the entire JP and US library.

>>7757169

>tfw Saturns are too expensive in your area

>>7757169
>>7757172
You can do whatever you want with your console, but installing an ODE in a disc based system with a transparent case kinda ruins it.
Still looks good though.

>>7757169
>Whacked in a 1TB SSD with the entire JP and US library

Nice looking console, but people who put entire libraries on their ODEs are retards. All you are doing is giving yourself decision paralysis when you fire up the console, and even if you fire it up knowing exactly what you want to play it's going to take you forever to go through pages and pages of games to get to the one you want. You are making your experience significantly worse just so you can have two entire libraries of games on your console when you will never, ever play 99.995% of them.

You should have curated a list of games you are either going to play, or are interested in playing instead. You could have thrown a $20 120GB SSD in there (which would run cooler and draw significantly less power) instead and still had space for between 200 and 300 games, which (unless you are a neet or have infinite free time) will still be more games than you will ever have time to play.

>>7757182
What third world shithole do you live in?

If the answer is "America", than you can score JPN consoles with a controller, memory cart, and a game or two for $100 shipped from Japan on Ebay. Add another $40 for a PSK cart, and maybe $10 for a stack of blank CDRs and you'll be set with more games than you can play for only $150.

If you can't come up with $150 than get a McJob or mow some fucking lawns or something.

>>7757184

I wouldn't have ever played physical disks in it - I only collect PAL boxed games and 99.9% of them aren't worth playing over NTSC backups. Seeing burned discs spin around isn't much nicer to look at. Plus the MODE lights actually match quite well.

>>7757189

The MODE allows you to create folders on the root. I have USA, JP, and another folder with cherry picked/translation patched games so they're easier to search through. Just thought I'd go all out putting the entire libraries for fun.

>>7757195
>I only collect PAL boxed games.
God I hope your their first owner. The PAL Saturn I bought a couple of years ago came with some games. All of them used those fuck-awful cardboard cases which barely hold themselves together.
It's amazing how bad the PAL boxes are. I don't get why they didn't just stick with the double disc jewel cases the Mega CD used.

>>7753942
95% of 2D games are better n saturn. And then you have the occasional 3D game thats better on Sat. But in general Saturn is the superior 2D machine. And PSX does 3D better. If you like texture warping, polygon wobbling, and overall bad limb joints on 3D character models.

>>7757194
Japanese shipping is annoyingly high. Last time I checked prices $100 Saturns were going for $40 shipping. Gay.

I know $140 is a good deal for a console but American sellers should be able to beat that price.

>>7754008
Saturn without any ram expansions has 4.0 MB of ram on paper, In reality its closer to 5.5. PSX has 3.5 MB of ram. Neo Geo has 7.5 MB ram.

https://youtu.be/H-4HH56_sOY

Sorry 4 point 7 MB it was.

>>7757868
Sure it has 4 MB but it's not main RAM. It's 2 MB of main RAM which is split into 2 1MB banks, one being slower than the other. Then you have 1.5MB of VRAM technically but it's really 512KB of VDP1 VRAM, 512KB of VDP2 VRAM, and 2x 256KB hardware Frame Buffers for VDP1. You can't really use it beyond those uses. The remaining 512kB is the RAM for the 68k and SCSP, which I guess you could use but I'd imagine you'd want that for audio.

So when compared to the PS1 it's really just the additional 512KB for VDP2 VRAM. The rest is the same with PS1 actually having some benefits as it's 2MB of Main RAM is Unified and the 1MB of VRAM is also unified with user definable frame buffers.

It's the RAM carts that bring the Saturn above the PS1 in terms of memory, and VDP2 that bring it above the PS1 in terms of 2D games.

>>7757867
? I found one for $89.99 free shipping including a controller and cables

>>7757896
The nip I saw last night was just trying to fuck me I guess

>>7757868
Saturn's RAM is split between so many different banks that it's easy to waste or run out of RAM when you need it. That's one reason why the SotN port suffered.

>>7757895
Well true. However Capcom CPS1 / CPS2 ports which DO NOT use any ram expansions have MORE frames, and better performance on Saturn than on PSX. SF Zero, Marvel Super Heroes, XMEN COTA, SF Zero 2 etc etc. Even Warriors of Fate runs out of Memory on the PSX mid-level, the game freezes, and has to load the second part of that level. No matter what it looks like on paper, Saturns ram is more efficient than the PSX.'es.

>>7757895
>So when compared to the PS1 it's really just the additional 512KB for VDP2 VRAM.

PSX has 128k CD buffer, Saturn has 512k. In practice, some devs did use that as an extra partition for game data.

On the other hand the PSX audio chip has builtin BRR ADPCM decoding, so while it has the same physical memory, it can produce 2-3x higher quality sound effects. But this doesn't offset the VDP2 and CD buffer memory. Saturn has more memory to use no matter what way you look at it, except flexibility.

>>7757921
>That's one reason why the SotN port suffered.
No, that's not the reason. SotN is just a very bad port doing lots of stupid inefficient shit:

- 2 VDP2 Scrolling Layers are being wasted on text. One is the text drawn during dialogue scenes, the other is debug text. So even if you're not in debug mode or seeing one of those scenes, those layers are reserved for that and just sit there doing nothing requiring VDP1 to pick up the slack.
- The game is doing a lot of things during VBlank, most of which it doesn't need to do (this is where the slowdown is coming from).
- The game uses SGL's CD loading library instead of the faster one from SBL. For some reason SGL's implementation is just stupidly slow. This is part of why the load times are worse.
- The game is doing none of the load a head tricks the PS1 version does which is the other part of why the load times are worse.
- The PS1 uses the PSX Bios font, while the Saturn game uses a custom font file that it has to load in every time you open the menu. This file is almost a MB in size and is why it takes so long to open the menu. The English patch actually unintentionally fixed this issue by replacing the font with a smaller ASCII font which was only about 30KB and loads a lot faster.

There's more but it's really just a poorly coded port.

>>7757925
Those games have more frames because they are 2D games using VDP2, so they can use that additional 512KB of VRAM for backgrounds and more efficiently use VDP1 VRAM for just the sprites.
>>7757938
The CD Buffer is very difficult to use and very few devs actually used it beyond it's intended use which was buffering data from the CD.

>>7757951
>>7757946
>>7757938
>>7757925
>>7757921
This discussion is fascinating.

>>7757946
Assuming you fix all of that shit, you still only get faster loading and slightly less slowdown, and maybe the ability to see the map without entering the options (using that extra vdp2 layer). The game would still look like ass because it's designed around building everything on the framebuffer instead of relying on oldschool tilemapper backgrounds.

>>7758203
>you still only get faster loading
You'd get loading matching the PS1 version, which we already see with the Translation patch and how fast the menu loads on it.
>slightly less slowdown
You'd probably match PS1 performance if you did it properly.
>and maybe the ability to see the map without entering the options (using that extra vdp2 layer)
It's 2 layers that are being wasted. So you would get 2 back, and you rearrange things to draw some of what VDP1 is drawing for scrolling background layers to VDP2 instead. while still having things like the Map go to VDP2 or even VDP1 if it's not doing as much now. Fans have already gotten that to work with hacks/mods.
>The game would still look like ass because it's designed around building everything on the framebuffer instead of relying on oldschool tilemapper backgrounds.
This isn't entirely accurate though. Even on PS1 the bulk of the game is rendering things as 2D tiles using the rectangular sprite command the PS1 does actually support. Sure you have some 3D objects here and there like the Clock Tower or the one room in the chapel, but the bulk of it is still doing traditional 2D which should translate just fine to something like VDP2 on the Saturn with having VDP1 handling other aspects with sprites. Currently though entire scrolling layers are being done with VDP1 drawing tons of tiny rectangles like a tilemap. Those layers could be done on VDP2.

>>7754065
>The N64 didn't even get real Doom, Doom 64 was a completely different game.
Yeah, it was basically an exclusive Doom 3, and a damn good one, too. Regardless of if it has new textures, sprites, sounds, music, and levels, what you've got under the hood is still plain old Doom (same monster basic monster routines and behaviors, same use of linedefs and sectors, same use of Binary Space Partitioning, etc), with a few added bells and whistles.

>>7754897
Exactomundo! There's no good reason that you couldn't have made a perfectly good port of Doom for the Sega Saturn, Bagley is just bullshitting and making excuses for doing a bad job. There's exactly zero chance that he had a preliminary port of the game doing a consistent 60fps without the texture warping being completely obscene (texture warping being the alleged reason which Carmack asked for a change in direction).

It's really an incredibly poorly put together port in most regards.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/86671-dissecting-sega-saturn-doom/
Here's a thread going through a lot of it, for anyone who is interested and even just casually technically minded, some of this should be baffling to you people.

>>7758439
I thought Doom 64 was complete shit, but I respect the fact that the developers wanted to try something new instead of just giving us yet another port of the same game

>>7758452
It has its failings, but I think that it has very fun level design. Roided up Pain Elementals was a good way to make up for no Archies or Revenants.

>>7758349
If the ps1 is capable of tradional tiles and 2D sprites, why are the street fighter alpha games on the console using 3D engines, as in animated textures slapped onto flat polygons?

>>7759247
I don't know ask Capcom. Maybe for a 2D Fighter with large sprites and bitmap like backgrounds that approach is less efficient on the PS1?

What I do know is that the PS1 does support a fast 2D rectangle mode where it can draw 8x8 or 16x16 2D tiles to it's frame buffer just like a tilebased system, and that's what Symphony of the Night uses. for the vast majority of what it draws to the screen.

>>7744857
>>7744879
I can assure you that kids who grew up on Wii and movie games will never be interested in a fucking Saturn lmao

Viva el Saturno

>>7759590
we should liquidate them all just to be sure

not yet

>>7758349
>You'd get loading matching the PS1 version,
That's what I meant by faster loading.

>You'd probably match PS1 performance if you did it properly.
Unlikely since VDP1 is stupid slow and can just about fill 1 screens worth of graphics at 60fps. It's why using the VDP2 is so damn important even in 3d titles.

>you rearrange things to draw some of what VDP1 is drawing for scrolling background layers to VDP2 instead.
There's only so much you can put on the VDP2 due to the nature of the game using polygons/sprites for everything. Even something as simple as the woods at the start has like 8 parallax layers, you absolutely have to use VDP1 for that unless you want to rewrite entire background effects (which could actually work in scenes like the clock tower or the chapel where you could use the vdp2 rotating bg, it would look different but still good).
The game was simply written with that in mind, so it translates inherently difficult to the Saturns paletted tilemap + sprites architecture.

>Even on PS1 the bulk of the game is rendering things as 2D tiles using the rectangular sprite command the PS1 does actually support.
Forget about that bullshit already, the point is that PS1 draws everything to the same 256x240 framebuffer meaning every effect works on every graphic equally. So when you add a special effect like an explosion, it covers both the monster underneath (a sprite), the castle wall (a background tile) and the trees you see in the window of the castle wall (sprites behind the background). And when you add a gouraud shading based effect, it can be freely used on anything.
Saturn SOTN will look like ass because the machine
- can't do 256px res, everything has to be stretched
- can't do transparency on both sprites and BGs at the same time
- has limits on gouraud shading that makes it difficult to use at best

You need to remove all the cool looking effects and end up looking like a 16-bit platformer but with huge rotating sprites.

>>7760420
For example, consider what a typical background is composed of: sprites in the foreground, a background that may have non-opaque pixels, and sometimes sprites behind the holes in the bg layer (trees you see behind the window of a castle). You also have things like the torches on the wall, which is a sprite that illuminates the background.

This means that for 90% of the game you need to use sprites with priorities and colour codes enabled, so you can tell them when to display under a background, and when to blend with a background. Using such sprites means you can't do sprite on sprite transparency. It also means that gouraud shading is a complete bitch to use since you have to precompute every shaded pixel colour. Which is why it's missing so often. It also means you are limited to sprite -> bg blending, which will make every sprite between the blended sprite and bg disappear, so it is only useful for VERY specific effects (it's why the new areas use them more often, they built them with this in mind).

Consider the Dracula fight in the first 5 minutes of the game:
- the light beam Dracula disappears in is opaque instead of blending with Drac and the background
- the shadow behind the cross is opaque
- when Maria powers you up, the animals are opaque instead of transparent
- the power up effect is missing the rainbow-y effect on Richter
- after powering up, Richter is missing the pulsating flash (no gouraud shading)
- when Dracula powers up, the full screen flash is just a mesh effect
- Dracula transforming is missing the motion blur, it's just two sprites flashing back and forth
- the vortex uses less colours

This is all due to the limits of using VDP1+2. You could get it done looking better (see Silhouette Mirage), but it would need re-coding the entire game so you can use effects as universally as the PSX does.

>>7759247
Because you can use 3d effects that use zero memory (a couple of flat shaded triangles moving around, requires no textures) as a substitute for things like hit sparks and therefore save on memory. The PSX had to draw the backgrounds as sprites too so it had WAY less memory to use for actual movement animation, therefore it had to simplify everything it could. If it had the same amount of memory as the Saturn, it could've pulled a 1:1 port just like the Saturn.