/vr/ - Retro Games

>pre-USB controller

why?

Microsoft Sidewinder.

The king.

>>7688258
Say what you will about those things, they were sturdy as fuck.

I used to have one of these. The only problem it ever had was the top of the joystick breaking off.

>>7687754
>why?

Not OP here. USB wasn't readily available to the public until about 1998-1999. USB 2.0 wasn't available until 2001. Maybe OP has a retro motherboard without the USB headers/ connections and has a dedicated sound card?

>>7688258
Why the fuck are these praised so much? The d-pad is awful and oversensitive on them - every time you press a direction you get random diagonal input too.

>>7687764
This is /vr/ , not /v/.

>>7688258
I had one. Didn't like it. Literally thought it was some chink knock off back in the day. Now I know it's not that bad. I mostly used one of those Thrustmaster Top Gun Joysticks.

>>7688649
>Why the fuck are these praised so much?

Because it was the first Nintendo styled gamepad for the IBM/ Compatible DOS-PC in North America (at least). Commander Keen popularized 2D platformers on DOS back in 1990. Gravis made this for games like Keen and Jazz Jack Rabbit. Gravis was best known for making sound cards back in the day. Sound cards use to be a main requirement for playing the retail-level PC big box games, while shareware games woulkd require the PC speaker minimum. Sound cards came equipped with the "Game Port" for joysticks, flight pads, racing wheels, etc. Gravis released an updated version of this pad called the GamePad Pro, which used a licensed PS1 design (without the analog sticks). I have two of these kicking around. Those were released in 1995 and 996 and supported extended button mapping.

>>7688671
>I mostly used one of those Thrustmaster Top Gun Joysticks.


I had image relegated for my PC from Gravis. This joystick was great too. Gravis's gamepad had some issues with the d-pad. I had 2 or 3 of their Gamepad Pro's and would get issues with either the down or the left d-pad buttons never working correctly. But when they did work, they were OK.

>>7689014
Yeah I know all this... I was there...
I know they got a lot of traction initially because they were the first/only option for a while. But they're still considered the gold standard when you ask about gameport pads, which either means everybody is wearing rose tinted glasses, or the other options are even worse. (Personally, prefer this one, still not a great dpad but at least it's accurate)

Never EVER saw a pre-USB controller that did d-pads right. Is there any example of them doing a proper d-pad that isn't complete garbage?

>>7689091
They really were vastly superior to most of the available alternatives, even years after their initial release. I collect gaming peripherals from the 80's and 90's, so this isn't just some vague memory of mine. Gameport gamepads were very frequently either completely absurd in terms of ergonomic design, meaning they looked cool but were a bitch to hold, or they had precision issues much more severe than the Gravis' d-pad.

>>7689046
I have the gray version in the box, but rats got to the foam handle. I was pissed, just pulled out some old shit from the attic to clean and fucking find that bullshit.

>>7687754
The interact Power Pad Pro I got recently works pretty well. Analog seems bad, but not really what I got it for. I imagine that propad 6 works just as well for 2D games.
>>7687765
Shit DOS support
>>7688258
Gravis dpads suck

Yeah yeah go ahead and try to say I'm wrong fags I just bought them last year and Sidewinder hardly works with anything in pure DOS outside of ZSNES and a few non-protected mode games with a 3rd party TSR. I bought two Gravis pads at the same time, got a 2-pack deal, both have the exact same terrible dpad.

>>7689125
>I have the gray version in the box, but rats got to the foam handle. I was pissed, just pulled out some old shit from the attic to clean and fucking find that bullshit.


I found one in a pawn shop in 2017 for $5.00, and I snagged it. I live in British Columbia Canada, and Gravis's headquarters were in this province. Gravis was advertised heavily in the PC stores in Canada. I have seen a few of the black ones in pawn shops around here. It was Gravis's most popular game stick's. They were sold from the 1980's to 1990's in different variants. The Gravis GamePad Pro was packaged with Many EA PC game bundles in Canada. There are USB versions of this pad too. I had 2 different EA bundles. They would come packed with NHL 98, Madden 98, Moto Racer, I think it was three Win 9X games and a Gravis Game Pad Pro in a box.

that one n64 knockoff pad somebody posted

I had this one as well.I feel like gamepads were a step backwards.

>>7689223
Apples/oranges. You need both.

>>7689243
>Apples/oranges. You need both.

It is true. The Apogee and Epic Mega Game platformers were pretty popular. Plus there were quite a few late DOS platformers that supported VGA graphics. There was a market for it. Even the early Windows 9x stuff. Though With 9x, Windows does have a game controller manager and direct input that simplifies things.

>>7689091
I too had to settle for lesser than console controllers in those days. Are there any adapters for console control pads to gameport?

>>7689359
That SPF2T port fucking STINNNKS.
>try it in PCem
>runs in a locked, low framerate, shitty scaling
>try it on my Win98 PC, thinking my emulated specs might be too low
>same shit
Eugh. Thank fuck Finalburn came around a few years after that.

>>7687764
DOS, Win9x. USB is dicey as fuck in Win9x and 90s hardware. USB became much more viable and widespread with USB2 and WinXP.

>>7688291
I don't know how they did it but Radioshack made so many good ass products despite being a store brand. Such a shame that they tore out the vast majority of their physical retailers and are now just another online store trying to eke out from Amazon's reign.

>>7687754
Arguably the Microsoft Sidewinder, but M$ didn't write native DOS drivers for it so you could only use it in native Win95 games or certain emulators like ZSNES. The gameport standard was a fucking mess that only natively supported four buttons.

>>7688651
USB ports have been a thing since 1997. I used to have an early Pentium II motherboard from that year with a pair of them.

>>7689649
In the early 2000s I had a Saitek P750 that worked great in 98SE on my Pentium III box. The d-pad on it was garbage, but as a kid I didn't care since the analog stick worked fine. Pic related.

As popular as the Gravis GamePads were, they were questionable. Who am I kidding? They felt kind of cheap and hollow. The action buttons were OK. The shoulder buttons were also OK. But the disc d-pad would be prone too breaking. The USB GamePad Pro did have a better d-pad.

>>7688291

I saw one of these at a RadioShack once, and I regret not buying it. I agree, there is something about RadioShack where you knew it would be good.

I never understood the hate. I love these fuckers. I have an entire stash of them, all complete with the screw-on "joystick".

>>7690054
I bought one of these shits for PS2 real cheap just for shits and giggles.

I have no idea why it exists. It's like Saitek decided to just release it as a quick cash grab because I can't find any games that work well with it.

>>7687754
I'm surprised nobody else bought up the Windows 95 champ. I guess it being serial puts it in a slightly different era than midi? idk

>>7693348
If the Saturn and Xbox had a baby.

>>7693363
>If the Saturn and Xbox had a baby.

The Microsoft Sidewinder was released right beside Windows 95. Maybe Microsoft will bring back the Dual Strike?

>>7693348
>I'm surprised nobody else bought up

That's because OP asked for the best gamepad not A gamepad. It's like 60% of people here are dyslexic.

The Microsoft GamePads are better than the Gravis ones.

>>7689629
Really? Doesn't look too bad here (assuming it's the same port) https://youtu.be/rjCYPvu-VDM

Image related is an easy option.

>>7694034
Puzzle Fighter, and yes really tried it myself.

>>7694016
Damn son this slaps

>>7694113
>Damn son this slaps

Microsoft made some good PC gaming peripherals in the mid to late 90's.

>>7694113
>>>7694016 (You)
>Damn son this slaps

Actual tutorial video from Microsoft. This is from 1999:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShp4F4cUDE

>>7694067
Are you visually impaired?

>>7689629
I remember they had a trial that was Macromedia Flash/Shockwave on Capcom's site but it was only 2 characters. That version played well and I searched around for a full version and happened upon that one, which is the Euro Windows CD-ROM release. Capcom kind of faded in the US PC market.

The Gravis Thunderbird was my go-to for playing the Marathon games on the family PowerMac

>>7689732
Radioshack had a market and they knew it and were in that position where the stuff they sold, whether it was PC parts or actual radio/HAM/coax/RC/etc components (god, remember when they had more than phones?), basically necessitated high quality because word of mouth spread quick among the tech oriented userbase. My local shack used to have some of the old 70s catalogs on display to flip through, the big hard cover ones. That shit was great. Mysteriously disappeared about the time phones became the big seller and the regular customer changed from mall-walkers and guys with plaid shirts and pants up to their nipples to a more melanin enriched variety of consumer.

>>7693348

>blocks your path

>>7694690
>Are you visually impaired?

There are lots of gameport to USB adapters out there. But I don't think there are any that do the opposite.

>>7693348
The Sidewinder used the same DB15 gameport connector as other PC joysticks at the time, but it only worked in Win95 and in certain DOS programs that were specially programmed for it. It used some proprietary Microsoft wizardry that needed custom drivers in order to overcome the gameport's native four button limit. Microsoft was trying to kill DOS gaming at the time, so they never released DOS drivers for it. ZSNES supported it in its DOS version, however, and I assume this is because the devs managed to reverse engineer its protocol.

>>7694067
nigga wtf are you smokin, that's an HDMI to DVI adapter.

>>7688258
>>7688258
>>7688258
Saw one of these practically brand new at a thrift shop a few days ago.

>>7689091
I had one of these. It was alright. Wish I would have used it for SNES Emulation more when that was a new thing.

>>7693348
>>7694025
>>7696987
Fucking hated these back in the day, my tiny baby hands could never hold them in a way that felt comfortable

>>7694025

I really have to point out that this gamepad also has tilt and motion control functionality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q36BTomIZk

The SideWinder Game Pad Pro is USB only, because it came out in 2000. But this one has a single d-pad that also functions as an analog thumb stick:
https://youtu.be/SRrIgBNKTNs

>>7694204
this thing's late versions are nearly unkillable
people still use them for aircraft sims (after some repairs and fixes)

>>7698221
best few bux I spent on eBay recently. It's nice when you win the shitty old hardware lotto.

>>7696987
I used to have one of these. It was bundled together with the PC version of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2.
Not the greatest pad, but it was functional.

>>7698906
>I used to have one of these. It was bundled together with the PC version of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2.
>Not the greatest pad, but it was functional.

Image related is one that I use to see in computer stores, but I never owned one.

- WingMan
- Side Winder
-Thunderbird
-Blackhawk

>>7698221
> Joystick awesome for flight sims

Can you tell that flight sims were still really popular in the mid 90's?

>>7690939

I have never owned the original Gravis GamePad. I have only ever owned the Gravis GamePad Pro. which is the PS1 looking gamepad. I have owned multiple Gravis GamePad Pro's, one being a USB mode. The disc d-pads were really unreliable with these things. They would break or nor register correctly. It seems like Gravis really wanted to make these as cheap as possible. Gravis released many good products. I also had a Gravis Exterminator, and this pad was generally better. It still has that disc d-pad design, but Gravis did make some improvements. I used the Exterminator for a quite a few years and it was a decent go-to game pad. I have had a few different DV15 gameport style game pads.

>>7688258
>tfw you realized the stick came off

>>7688258
>>7700914
Pretty dumb that there was nothing to put in the hole of the D-Pad if you hadn't used the stick though. It always scratched/slightly cutted my finger.

>>7688291
that looks great

>>7694025
In all a cool controller for that time.
But the D-Pad sucked hard. It had a slight rotation where you also automatically pressed the wrong direction. Especially noticeable in precise games or Emulation.
Early Xbox controllers had slightly the same shitty problem.

>>7688651
>>7690054
Even earlier with PCI cards to have USB. Still have my card in my 98SE PC

>>7701017
That's true. USB first hit the market in 1996. Crazy to think it's been around that long.

>>7701029
I remember when apple went straight to only USB with the iMac in 1997

>>7700972
Didn't you put a piece of tape over it?

>>7690054
Is that right silver circle an actual analog nub or is it there purely for show?

>>7701174
Yea, i think i did something like this at some point.

>>7701029
>>>7701017
>That's true. USB first hit the market in 1996. Crazy to think it's been around that long.

Windows 95 USB support was really bad. Microsoft really didn't get their shit together with USB until Windows 98se on the 9x kernel. But I think Windows NT did have better USB support. USB 2.0 was not available until 2001. Windows 98/ME supports USB 1.1.

>>7701007
>In all a cool controller for that time.
>But the D-Pad sucked hard. It had a slight rotation where you also automatically pressed the wrong direction. Especially noticeable in precise games or Emulation.
>Early Xbox controllers had slightly the same shitty problem.


This was a general issue with most gamepads at the time. There was trial and error in developing d-pad designs that would not infringe on existing patents. Gravis licensed the PS1 controller design from Sony, but still had to use their own d-pad design. They remind me of the 8-bit SMS controller d-pads, but circular. I used one for PS1 emulation, and the buttons are sturdy on those controllers and have a responsive click. The d-pad would have all sorts of issues. Though the thumbstick nub did actually help.

>>7701207
>Is that right silver circle an actual analog nub or is it there purely for show?


That is what's known as an "8-way hat", something that was common on flight sticks for PC. They were used for navigating menus, and such.They function like an 8-way dpad, or just 8-additional buttons. Microsoft's Direct-input API supports them.

>>7701551
>Gravis licensed the PS1 controller design from Sony,

Size comparison. This is a PS1 classic USB pad. But it's still the same size as the original.

>>7701973

This Gravis pad is apparently rev4. I guess they did change the DV15 connector a few times. This one can stack multiple gameport controllers. The d-pad may have received some for of revision. I never noticed if they did. I had 3 or so of these pads. One was bought as a stand-alone pad. Another came in a three-package of EA games. The third one was the black USB version. The D-Pad stopped functioning properly on one of the gameport d-pads. But the one in image still functions. Windows 9x recognizes this gamepad with no issues. The USB version was better, But there were many other options available.

>>7701973

>>7690054
>USB ports have been a thing since 1997
There's even Pentium 1 AT motherboards with integrated USB but good luck getting anything to work in an USB 1.0 port.
Most devices are 2.0 and the ones that are legacy compatible are usually 1.1 at minimum

>>7702094
>There's even Pentium 1 AT motherboards with integrated USB but good luck getting anything to work in an USB 1.0 port.
>Most devices are 2.0 and the ones that are legacy compatible are usually 1.1 at minimum

Yeah, there are. I think Windows NT may have handled USB better on those boards. It seems like USB didn't become widespread in the Windows/Pentium market until the released of USB 1.1.

>>7696970

The classic Thustmaster Top Gun licensed flight stick

>>7702428

Here's one of Thrustmaster's DV15 gamepads. Though they were more focused on flight peripherals and racing wheels back then. They didn't really get into making joy pads until USB became more common.

>>7702462

>>7694067

>>7701551
>>7702094
>>7702262
Yea i remember that USB 1.0 sucked pretty hard.
Most devices would get properly detected, even with the drivers, gave many bluescreens etc.
On Linux of course it already worked well for most stuff. But early consumer Windows sucked hard.

>>7701973
>>7702021
Wait, that's one of the PS1 mini console controllers? How did it became that dirty already. Clean your stuff.

>>7701551
>>7702094
>>7702262
Yea i remember that USB 1.0 sucked pretty hard.
Most devices wouldn't get properly detected, even with the drivers, gave many bluescreens etc.
On Linux of course it already worked well for most stuff. But early consumer Windows sucked hard.

>>7701973
>>7702021
Wait, that's one of the PS1 mini console controllers? How did it became that dirty already. Clean your stuff.

>>7687754
this or the joystick(s) upgraded models.

>>7705516
>textured, for his pleasure