/vr/ - Retro Games

well-developed platformers but i don't play modern games much so maybe there's a bunch out there i don't know about

The pixel artwork.

>>766840
this so bad. i also like when stats or whatever max out at 255

sharing cartridges with friends

>>766839
The difficulty

>>766839
>insane difficulty
>pixel art/graphics
>no "tutorial" spoonfeeding garbage
>interesting/exploitable glitches

I miss short, action-packed, arcade-like games that were entirely about gameplay and challenge.

I miss not having any hand holding.

I miss devs/publishers being willing to try something new sometimes.


That last one is probably the most important to gaming, but that first one is the most important to me.

2D. Sprites. Simple menus. No hand holding and tutorials. We don't ever need to over complicate this.

Four player coop, both split-screen or single screen.

It's doubly a shame since now it's easy to get a tv that is large enough to make it really look nice now.

The comfort.

No overhead in programming. The limits of the console shouldn't hinder your capabilities as a designer, only your programming knowledge.

Unfortunately, homebrew games for the NES are just eh at best.

Simple Stories.
Final Fantasy 6 > Deep enough to be interesting.
Final Fantasy 13 > Um... what is a Fal'cie? Pulse? 'Cieth? What the heck are you talking about?

Unlockables.
I liked getting extra things out of my game as a reward, things with actual play value, not some meaningless e-pen badge. Now I have to pay for all that stuff, so I pretty much beat the game once and sell it, there's 0 incentive for me to get 100% if there's no cool extra character, level or game mode waiting for me.

Cheat codes that made silly changes to the game

>Big head mode

>>766842
There aren't.

>>766842
If you count within the last 10 years to be modern, there's a few.
Bunny Must Die is my personal favorite.

Games are games, not cinematic experiences or esports.
Unlockables over dlc.
Platformers that aren't pretentious hipster affair
Traditional 2D spritework
Franchises in their prime

>>766881
/thread pretty much right there

>insane difficulty
yes. games these days are a fucking joke, over in a matter for hours.

The Subtlety

Not being treated like a goddamn retard by the programming team. Rewards for nonlinear thinking. Seeing touches in the games that let you know that each person on the team wanted to leave their mark on a labor of love. Credits full of mysterious codenames. and YOU!

>>766881
This.

Mine is mostly SNES era stuff, including pixel art, and I mean actual pixel art, not that "Retro 8-bit art" shit that is used a lot now. Like a lot of others in this thread have mentioned, I also really liked unlockables, co-op, secrets (oh man, do I miss secrets), and memorable music.

Boss battles. A lot of modern games don't have them and when they do they're usually pretty shit.

charm.

A lot of what have already been mentioned, but something I miss in particular is the lack of particle effects.
In many modern games you can't even see what's going on because every single tiny action has to explode in a firework of particles.

>>766839
miss? I play classic games all the time so I don't miss anything

>>767437
There are plenty of things you can't see anymore.

I miss developers who encourage the modding community.
I miss developers being grateful for their fans keeping them fed, rather than ones who feel like they are entitled to a profit.
I miss "Thank you for playing!" and knowing that I was actually appreciated for supporting good entertainment.

Basically, I miss the time when gargantuan publishers didn't have shit-eating consumers trained to love abuse.
The games have always been great, and will always exist, but the ecosystem is different for the worse, and it probably will never go back to what it was. Game development will forevermore be a heavily-monetized industry controlled by giant corporations who don't give a shit about anything, piping more than half of the game's budget into marketing while the actual developers get almost nothing in comparison, just like the modern music industry.

>>767350
>>766881

These. My nine-year-old nephew thinks he's awesome at vidyas because he goes on YouTube and watches playthroughs of games that he owns, so he'll know what to do to beat them. When I was his age, you called the hotline/wrote snail mail to Nintendo, or you figured it out your own damn self.

>>767447
>When I was his age, you called the hotline/wrote snail mail to Nintendo, or you figured it out your own damn self.

This isn't making older games look any better, just so you know.

Also, if your nephew is playing games that require execution, then he is as good as he thinks. Watching someone beat Contra isn't going to make you better at Contra if you have shitty reaction time. If this is all it took to be good at games, I would have beaten Super Mario Bros. 3 at a much younger age, due to me watching my older cousins play.

>>766839

Playing games for challenge and fun.

Nowadays games are designed to push you from point A to point B without considering what you're doing.

Also, lack of information from marketing and online communities. Not knowing what to expect increases your enjoyment of something and makes it more special.

>>767445
>I miss developers who encourage the modding community.
What age are your classics from?
Because mine are from a time when almost everything was hardcoded to maximize performance and modding invariably involved fucking with executables.

I don't miss old games because if I want to play one, I can play one.

The greater challenge and the absence of hand-holding
Fps games not having regenerating health and needing to be an interactive movie in place of nonlinear maps
Gameplay in the forefront instead of graphics
All the good platformers that came out when it was the most popular genre

All game, no bullshit.

>>767121
This here.

Most developers nowadays already have DLC plans before their games even come out with these little short, five hour single-player modes. Then they have the nerve to sit there and wonder why the used game market is flourishing. Stop making small things like extra costumes and weapons DLC and let me actually play the damn game to EARN them as fucking unlockables like it used to be.

no save states or saving your progress!!
You have to beat it!

the reason why its dubbed "NES HARD"

>>767129
THIS A MILLION TIMES

>>767524

Both of you are talking like no games do this. God of War III has UNLOCKABLE costumes and shit, hell all GoW games do.

You're mostly talking about your generic licensed games and FPS's.

>>767603

I've noticed on the internet, 9 times outta 10 someone's complaining about something modern games do, it all applies AAA titles and not much else.

>>767480
>What age are your classics from?
Mid 90's, and I'm primarily speaking of PC RTS's like Total Annihilation, which still has a large modding community, but not as big as it used to be.

>>767607

And not even all AAA titles, mostly activision shit.

>>767543

>Saving
>Detrimental

You have a right to your opinion, even if it is balls to the wall retarded.

I mean, I'm with you on the Save States shit, saving at ANY moment during the game is in fact, cheating.

But saving your progress at a save point or at a world map or wherever the game lets you save at is great. I remember being amazed at the Save feature in Zelda, because I could drop it to go play basketball or whatever with friends, or we could play a multiplayer game after I save, and I don't have to start ALL THE WAY OVER.

And even then, you're forgetting that quite a few NES games used a password system to "save" progress. The Mega Man games are probably the most popular games to use that feature and yeah, it was great. I remember getting stuck on Wily Machine No.2 in Mega Man 2, and being so exhausted that I just wrote down the password and turned it off, slept, came back the next day and beat him. That's a great feature. Only a try hard would think that feature is bad.

RPGs that didn't explicitly say "Hey! Listen!" then tell you what to do.

I first began noticing this bullshit trend in 1992 with Lunar the Silver Star on Sega CD.
'Go see Quark.'
'Now that we've seen Quark, let's go back home.'
'Now that we're back home, let's go to Saith.'
'Now that we're in Saith, let's go to Meribia.'
'Now that we're in Meribia, you can fuck right off and go to Vane.'
'Now that I'm in Vane, let's go to Lann.'
'Now that I'm in Lann, let's go to the Lann Island Cave.'
'Now that I'm in the Lann Island Cave, let's go back to Vane.'

Etc etc etc.
Just felt like busy work.

And I know it existed in some games /before/ 1992, like Crystalis, but I didn't play Crystalis until 1999.

I much preferred Phantasy Star I, II, and III, Final Fantasy I and their relatively lesser amount of hand-holding. PSII had more hand-holding than the other games, but was good enough to keep me interested no matter.

>>766839
my childhood.

Time limits, the feeling of immersion that you get from games that are so hard that you have to focus all your attention on them.

Though I don't really miss it, I guess, since I'm still playing those games.

>>767621

>Handholding in RPGs

Well if you hate handholding, Dragon quest is your series, anon. Some of them are grindy but I recommend DQV and DQVII

>>767614
I love save states because they keep me from ever having to write down a password again. Back in the day, I'd have to pause Castlevania at a tough point to sleep, then I had school. Half the time I got home, I found out that somebody had turned off the NES while I was gone (probably thinking it was on by accident), or it had been bumped in the meanwhile and was now frozen. Fuck that; never again. Save states are convenient.
Using them as anything more than an extended pause or password replacement is retarded, though, and ruins the game.

taking notes

mostly clues and stuff in RPGs for obvious reasons, but sometimes even just passwords in puzzle/strategy games like lemmings or battle isle. Yeah it's stupid and inconvenient. I like it.

The way the aesthetics managed to convey people of what the developers were trying to do with the game without relying on half-assed social commentary, childish seriousness or graphical gimmicks. Can't stand any of this hollywood explosion stuff or those pesky, blocky looking hipster games for insecure tweens that get churned out all day.

>>767632

Oh, yeah, agreed. I was more or less implying that Save States can be easily abused, and I don't doubt that people that emulate abuse them.

>>767458
The thing is, if you DO have a proper and functional reaction time, you can watch someone play and, since you already know how the game works (controls, enemy patterns and such) replicate them almost perfectly.

I had a friend come over to play Batman: Arkham Asylum a bit after it came out. He played all of the game by himself while I watched, then he got stumped before the last joker fight (the long hallway with something like 18 guys at once). That's when I, never having played before, picked up the controller and made mincemeat out of them, just because I watched him play the rest of the game.

also, he was playing hard mode, so there were no warnings whatsoever

>>767678
Also, my point was that, back in the days, I would have had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with that fucking cylinder in Carnival Night, if I had watched a let's play of someone else.

16-bit/8-bit music.

They had some charm despite their limited resources.

That they were fucking games, not somewhat interactive movies.

>>767687

This.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5BC6rgFas

^This here sample for instance. If they did a modern remake of it it just wouldn't be the same. I also hate how every modern hipster game that tries to imitate old music never gets it right, it always sounds like a butchered mess.

>>767687
Video game music has become horribly generic. No more goofy shit like the ost from the original Age of Empires.

It's been said in this thread but it bears repeating: FUN GAMEPLAY MECHANICS

>>767445
>I miss "Thank you for playing!"
right in the feels ;_;

>>766842
try Braid

>>766842
What about Rayman Origins?

>>767728
Thank you for playing you can continue adventures in future DLC.

>>767623
>The only true answer
The rest of you guys are just pulling shit out of your asses.

Back in the day when arcade gaming was the norm, develloper made hard game because the moment you died you had to put another coin in the machine.

Now you have home console and to continue selling you need to have game that are easy enough so that everyone can finish it.

That's why I put heavy restraint on myself when okating video game today.

In Donkey country 3D, I erase my save everytime I have a game over, and in Zelda if Link dies only ONCE, I erase my save.

>>767654

I am OK with abusing them. If people want to play that way, its fine for me. Save states are sometimes awesome to learn a pattern quicker than going through the whole game again. But each to his own. There are game that I beat with save states and I dont feel ashamed of it.

Bug and balance testing. Once that cart/disc hit my console, it was as tuned and refined as it could be, nowadays most games get some kind of bug fix/patch shortly after release, and the multiplayer is always imbalanced to start with.

DLC, did not exist, they made as much game as possible, tested it, and put it in the motherfucking final product. Want extra content, buy a sequel.

Secrets, want to use a boss chacter, want to use a sweet ass costume, well, beat the game with no KOs, or using only a shitty weapon. Now, that'll be $2.50 please. This wouldn't burn my ass so bad if I still had the option to complete tasks in game to earn these things, but it seems thats not fair or someshit, so anyone who wants bonus costumes in street fighter gotta pay for em.

Games weren't trying to be movies.

>>767810
>in Zelda if Link dies only ONCE, I erase my save
I'm guessing you've never had to do this with any 3D Zelda.

>>767823

It's fine as long as people don't try to gloat too much over it.

But we all know what the case is.

Time limits. If there's no time limit then the optimal way to play is also the most boring way to play.

>>767861
>Once that cart/disc hit my console, it was as tuned and refined as it could be

You either have no clue what you're talking about or have nostalgia goggles to the max.

>>767628
Oh, I know. I like'em. Thanks, though, kind Anon.

>>767861
>Once that cart/disc hit my console, it was as tuned and refined as it could be
this is complete bullshit, a lot of games were full of bugs, even back then, some of them well known and game breaking.

also, do we really need to have this shit thread all the fucking time?

>>767621
it actually started with FF I think

>>767621
>implying that Crystalis isn't an awesome game
also the hand holding isn't really that bad in it at all, you must be going for some real "retro hardcore" cred here... but then again that's all these retarded threads exist for

the simple control schemes. i tried playing DK country returns for the 3DS and the controls aren't ergonomic at all compared to the SNES titles.

in DK returns you have a button that bashes the ground when idle, and then rolls you when you're running. fair enough, but then there's ANOTHER button used for grabbing barrels and grabbing onto the climbable grass - why not just map the smash/roll button to that and make it context sensitive? instead the grab button is mapped to 'R' and seeing as you have to hold it and it's on a fucking 3DS, it's extremely uncomfortable.

>>767746
Rayman Origins is fucking fantastic

>>767907

Good to hear! No problem!

>>767936

Yeah, simplicity is honestly the best thing about older games.

I mean, fuck. The main reason I enjoyed Mario Galaxy so much is because its one of the few AAA games with a simple control scheme.

>>767926
Nope. I found Crystalis horribly boring. It had charm, sure, but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as other, similar games. Willow, NES, a game similar to Crystalis, was pretty awesome. I never even heard of Crystalis until I saw it on a list of upcoming games in a magazine in 1999. I looked it up, found out it would be a rerelease, downloaded the original rom and was blown away by boredom.

Furthermore, what would I care about "cred?" I haven't owned any television console system newer than N64. Did I earn my /vr/ points yet? No? I hate 3D Zeldas. Not yet? FFVII was the worst thing to happen to the series already steadily slipping from my tastes. Woo! One point! I feel so fulfilled.

I don't need "cred." I don't care about it. What would I have to gain or to lose? This conversation will be forgotten as soon as the thread is pruned and all that "cred" I'm supposedly striving for is gone, like so much semen down your ever-hungry gullet.

>>767973
>I don't need "cred." I don't care about it. What would I have to gain or to lose? This conversation will be forgotten as soon as the thread is pruned and all that "cred" I'm supposedly striving for is gone

so why are you getting so hilariously defensive about it?

when you finished a game it says "Thank you for playing"

and alternatively one thing I loved was in Super Mario World when after you get 100% everything goes all halloween

>>767937

sure if you like loose unpredictable physics

>>767982
I'm defending /vr/, not myself. I don't care what >>767926 thinks of me.
It's people like >>767926 who ruined /v/ and people like >>767926 who need to be kept from ruining the Golden Land that is /vr/.
No one is here for cred. We're here as refugees. We're here because we genuinely enjoy our older games. Is this concept so difficult to grasp or understand? That people here are sincere?

>>767986
>loose unpredictable physics
The physics are perfectly precise and predictable. What are you talking about?

>>767993

don't know about you but jumping sucked for me, i felt like I was playing one of those flash platformers with weird acceleration, jumping arks and somewhat slippery. Nothing felt solid.

Challenge
No emphasis on online multiplayer.

I miss gathering up friends and playing games in real life, rather than speaking with them over xbox live. Sure, online multiplayer is much more convenient, but it doesn't have the same feeling. In something like Castlevania, you could dissect the game much more quickly when you're talking about different strategies with people instead of doing it all yourself. The simple and challenging gameplay was also very nice.

>>768003
Sorry, but I can't relate to that at all. It played perfectly fine for me.

>>767810
>arcade gaming

was a shitty fad on home consoles that should have died then and there

>>768023
>games with focus on gameplay where you have to improve in order to progress should have died earlier than they did
Fuck you.

Devs doing more with less. When you've got a more limited toolset to work with it forces you to think more creatively in order to make something that stands out. This stretches in execution from appreciable sprite artwork and catchy music to gameplay experimentation, especially back in the 8-bit days when genres weren't as set in their ways. Yes, it led to as many bad games as good and it's not like NOBODY tries to break the mold anymore, but back then it was the norm and lent much more of a sense of adventure to the whole industry/hobby.

>>768028

oh great another 2hard4u faggot

nothing good came out of arcade gaming mentality on home consoles, except frustration with not having enough lives and a useless scoring systems

>>768038
You can't be serious.

>>768038
Just stop.

>>768028

Can I just point out that you're being silly, particularly the "I erase my save in Zelda if I die once"? Did you do that shit with Zelda 1 and 2, games that were released during the arcade era and weren't designed to be played in a single setting without dying? Arcade games rarely last over an hour. Zelda games do.

Your post reeks of that "This ground is too soft! I wish more of my bones were broken" bullshit. Zelda, and a lot of other games released during that time, were not designed to be played as an arcade game. Because they're not arcade games.

>>768057
Not >>768028, but can you imagine playing Super Mario Bros or Mega Man if you had infinite lives, with the difficulty dumbed way down? They wouldn't be nearly as fun. Maybe less frustrating and better for the lowest common denominator, but definitely less fun.

N64 controller being unusable. Even there's a shitload available, it's a pain to see it in the dump

>>768074

Couple things. Games like Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania have unlimited continues. They aren't any easier than Mario or Mega Man. And funny you should bring up Mario, because it's the only series out of anything that you or I listed that you can permanently lose your progress, and it's considerably easier than all of the examples.

Second, you practically do have infinite lives in Mega Man. Getting booted out to the continue screen means nothing, and most of the games in the series have a password or save system.

You people are trying to force arcade gameplay on video games that weren't designed to be played as arcade games. Arcade games were meant to take your money. Console games are not meant to take your money beyond the original purchase.

>>768057
>Can I just point out that you're being silly, particularly the "I erase my save in Zelda if I die once"?
Wasn't me. Take it up with that other guy.

>Arcade games rarely last over an hour
Maybe if you abuse save states.
Otherwise you almost certainly will not beat a challenging arcade-like game the first time you play.

What's wrong with games being short and challenging or focused on score?
What makes longer games inherently superior?
Are you suggesting that quantity is more important than quality?

>"This ground is too soft! I wish more of my bones were broken" bullshit
Why do you have trouble processing the idea that I might ENJOY a good challenge?

>>768093

>That entire post

I'm not responding to you until you learn to stop making so many damn implications.

>What's wrong with games being short and challenging or focused on score?
>What makes longer games inherently superior?
>Are you suggesting that quantity is more important than quality?

I never said or implied any of this, and I'm not going to spend time trying to refute arguments that you put in my mouth.

>>768102
Fine, just ignore those 3 lines then.

>>766839
Secrets.
Figuring out mechanics and that actually feeling rewarding.
Dying as something normal; as a way of learning and not as a punishment in statistics.
Inventive and fitting music with limited hardware.
Even when some games were made with profits in mind, developers still put their hearts in them.

And everything in this thread.

I miss tbe whimsy and pixel art. I can't get behind games that try to be realisitic. I like fantastical elements and fun

>>767129
>LucasArts it's long dead
>No more 'makemeapirate'

>>768074
You already have infinite lives in Megaman games, seeing as you have no time limit, respawning enemies and random 1up drops. That's one reason it's a worse game than SMB.

I appreciate the celerity and pacing of pre-5th gen RPGs. Post-5th gen, RPGs felt a lot slower, thanks to both loading times, overly grandiose animations, and scenario design.

Very few modern RPGs and related genres (SRPGs etc.) have that right level of pacing I enjoy. Roguelikes and JRPGs like Dragon Quest and Shin Megami Tensei feel just about right.

>>768142

>You already have infinite lives in Megaman games, seeing as you have no time limit, respawning enemies and random 1up drops. That's one reason it's a worse game than SMB.

When I first beat Super Mario World 3, I had like 58 lives and had only died a couple times. For SMB, as long as you explore for coin rooms and are even so much as adept at the game, you will not get a game over. Lives may be finite, but you have less opportunities to die.

Returning to the Continue screen is encouraged so you can get the password, its basically a chance to save.

>>768164

Er, I meant Super Mario Bros 3, haha

>>768093
>Why do you have trouble processing the idea that I might ENJOY a good challenge?

because your enjoyment is the same as the fat lady spending all her money on slot machines kind of enjoyment, borderline mental addiction

>>767603
I can't honestly recall the last game I played that had extra characters, levels or game modes that were unlockable and not DLC, and I do play a variety of modern games.

>>766839
The challenge (Though Lost Levels is just fucking ridiculous)
I mean, none of them are super RETRO HARD but even up to 64 they were pretty damn challenging, especially some of the ending levels of SMB3.

>>768118
>Secrets.
This. Modern secrets are lame. Remember when games had entire SECRET LEVELS?

Now they can't be bothered because they're afraid most people won't see their work.

>>768169

>Comparing challenges based on SKILL to challenges based entirely on chance

Are you trying to sound like a complete idiot? It's working.

>>767447
When you were his age, you checked out Nintendo Power or, if the game was big enough, a player's guide.

>>768214

um...we aren't talking strictly mario

>>768218
>>768218

Battleblock Theater and SMB come to mind for secret awesome shit.

>>768230
Yeah I thought that said "what does /vr/ think of classic mario game" whoops. Point still stands though.

>>768218
there are plenty of modern games with secret levels
also these threads are retarded and similar to the "musac was gud when.... and all mordern music sucks, bring back the classics" posts on youtube... yes, I just said these threads are youtube tier, please stop

>>768227

sure tell yourself that, I bet your hands move on their own from all the repetitive actions you've drilled from all the memorization of stages

>>768237

haha yeah no worries just wanted to point that out

I agree with you for the most part. Only that Super Mario Bros 3. was super easy, even up until the Bowser fight.

I actually miss the supplementals, i.e. the manual (with storyline, background info, full color artwork, etc), paper maps, etc. Nowadays you typically only get those things if you shell out an extra $20 for the limited collector's edition.

>>766842
Here's a few recommendations:

These three
>>767142
>>767728
>>767746


>Outland (PSN/XBLA)
Think Ikaruga meets Metroid. Beautiful art direction and some of the tightest platforming controls ever devised. If you decide only to look at one of my recommendations, make it this.

>LIMBO
Yeah it's short but it's a fun, atmospheric ride.

>Trine 1&2 (STEAM/PSN)
A physics based platformer series that's reminiscent of Lost Vikings.

>A Boy and His Blob
Those who've played this shouldn't doubt WayForward on the Ducktales remake, easy mode and tutorial videos be damned.

The works of this man:
http://nifflas.ni2.se/?page=News

And then you still have various Mario, Sonic, Kirby and Donkey Kong games that range from great to serviceable.
Truth be told, there are a lot of genres worse off than the platformer these days.

>>767990
how exactly did liking crystalis ruin /v/ or this board, you are retarded

>>768236
That's the exception. Battleblock has easily made levels because it's done with a pretty simplistic editor. I'll still take it though.

>>768240

Even if that was the case, it wouldn't be down to CHANCE if I completed the challenge or not, it would be down to my ability to replicate what I've done before through memorization of stages.

How the fuck does that compare to pulling a lever and praying to god that you get three 7's in a row?

Stop deliberately acting like a retard. We see that enough on /v/.

>>768227
actually, in arcade games it's still chance, arcarde games are designed so that the player will loose as often as possible, there are even arcade games where the physics change slightly each time they are played.

>>768263
>there are even arcade games where the physics change slightly each time they are played.
Do you have an example of this? That's kind of interesting.

>>768263

>Arcade games
>Being anything other than only slightly relevant

>>766842
Generations, some of the new Ratchet and Clank games, DKCR, Braid, the NSMB games are fun despite what people say (I can't deny they're rehashy as fuck, but they're worth a play), Cave Story (not as recent as the others but still slightly modern), Dustforce, etc.
Rayman Origins I GUESS BUT I DISLIKED IT

I really just miss when pretty much every game had an abundance of codes and secrets.

I like the level design more

>>768263

If games are -designed- so that the player will "loose" as often as possible, then it's not chance, it's design.

>there are even arcade games where the physics change slightly each time they are played

Name one and explain what physics are changed

>>768259

>implying arcade games don't rely on luck

you best be joking

That everything was physical and you didn't have things like DLC

>>768263

I'm aware, but thanks for bringing it up. Even so, its only mildly comparable. Ultimately, you are not pulling a lever and praying to god you get three 7's. It was a very shitty comparison for that anon to make, and he's too much of an idiot to realize it. End of argument.

>>768276

Arcade games may be the exception but they're hardly relevant.

>>768286
>hardly relevant

we were talking about arcade games in the first place

>>768274
Yeah. Like you bought the latest FPS, came with 5 chapters (two of which would be separately released DLC expansion packs today), 5 difficulty modes, 20+ cheat codes that ranged from god modes to silly stuff like big heads and altering the gravity, online as a bonus rather than the main feature, mod tools, full color manual and a huge ass poster you could proudly hang on your wall ('s not like you were having girls over). I miss those days...

>>768283
But it is based on a similar logic "gah I didn't win, but maybe I'll get it this time"
That was where the slot machine logic came in.

>>768283
The comparison was fine.

>>768290

We were also talking about Zelda, which is a console game.

And again, the comparison just doesn't work, even when applying it to Arcade games. You cannot control where the slots stop. You can try to time it, but good fucking luck with that. It isn't even skill based, shit is randomized so it stops whenever.

>>768302

zelda 1 and 2 have slot like, luck based randomized mechanics for drops and enemy placement or where they will appear

The replayability.
Most modern games are good for one playthrough before collecting dust.

>>768298
No, it wasn't. Reasons why not were given. Saying "no it's fine" doesn't make it so. Defend it, if you can.

>>768310

not to mention enemy behaviour

>>768302
It works in the context it was given but like most of this argument both sides have been ignoring context and are attacking what helps there case more.
It's like watching political debate really.

>>768319
Did you miss >>768294

>>768310
The difference is that you CONTROL the player character and can interact with those randomized elements. The game isn't pure random chance.

>>768319
See
>>768317
or
>>768294
or
>>768310
>>768320

>>768323
No, and even that is faulty. "Maybe I'll win this time" in a video game implies action on the player's part, whereas winning a slot machine means the random chance happens to be in your favor. There is NO input on the slot player's part.

>>768326

you control the input of coins and when to start

>>768326
That wasn't the core point.
We get it austist, it's not pure chance but it is built to play on human addiction and the Skinner box much like how slot machines temp people.

>>768294

That wasn't the exact logic he was using and I see what you're saying. Still, it isn't the same. I've explained why many times. You can connect millions of things together using "similar" logic, but that doesn't make them the same.

>>768298

Sure, its fine if arcade games didn't let you have control. But you do have influence. So the comparison is shitty. Find another comparison.

You realize that you could say that Arcade games are "a lot like gambling" and it'd make more sense right? You literally have no control over the slots. Therein lies the fucking issue.

>>768335
>I'm mad at you so I'm going to call you "austist"

Goodbye, credibility!

>>768330
You can't be this dense
First of all both situations have the same causality "I didn't win and I wanted to win"
The old lady puts another coin in the machine and gives another pull.
The kid drops another coin in (or presses start) and plays till he dies again.

This isn't about skill this is about operant conditioning

>>768335

So it'd be better if every enemy dropped a million of everything?

oh jesus christ this is RICH

>>768330

This. Thanks for explaining it more eloquently than I could.

>>768350

The point is that while the similarities are there, they still are not the same.

You seem to be under the impression that they're exactly the fucking same and that there is no skill involved in playing an Arcade game.

One quarter is all it took for me to blow through X-Men and Simpsons as a kid after I gained the skill to do so. The payout is getting good and just playing the fucking game.

I'm not going to repeat this again so read well:

You literally have no control over the slots. Boom. There goes your comparison. It's time to get over it.

>>768362
>You seem to be under the impression that they're exactly the fucking same
I haven't been saying that at all.

why does /v/ have to shit up my threads?

>>768342
Agreed. It's foolish to say that every arcade game is 100% luck, 0% skill. A better comparison would be Blackjack or Poker, which are a combination of strategy and luck.

>>768314
Yeah.
Some games today don't even come with a difficulty option, there's scarcely any games that are as loaded with secrets and game extending cheat codes as back in the day but the main problem has actually to do with length. So many 8 and 16 bit games are so high on replay value because they're pick up and play simple, yet hard to master games you initially spend hours upon hour practicing at, yet don't usually take more than a couple of hours to breeze through again once you've beaten them. Compare that to today's "cinematic experiences" that lead you by the hand even on the hardest difficulty setting (if they include it at all) but none the less take at least 6-12 hours to complete. When you're done, you usually feel like you've experienced all the game has to offer and because of the length (often unnecessarily extended with meaningless cut sequences and lengthy load times) you'd be likelier to revisit it on youtube instead of playing it again.

>>768363
The term 'addiction' pop up
The moment that happens anons here turn into tumbler girls and the shitposters eat it up.
>>768169
Knew full well what he was doing, he knew the poster wouldn't stop and now we have at least 3/4 other people posting along for this argument as well.

>>768364

Oh? So then, you aren't this faggot?

>>768169
>>768240

If not, then I apologize.

If so, then that is exactly the impression you were conveying from the way your posts were worded and if you can't see that given the context then there is just no hope for you.

>>768365

the only skill required is persistence, true for anything

no wonder the most popular arcade games were Pacman and Donkey Kong, they were the least jewey of the bunch and didn't rely on lolrandum projectiles coming at you from every direction to take your coins away in milliseconds

the secrets.
the amazing feeling of accomplishment coming after a boss fight instead of little things every 5 seconds

>>768375
I love how it leads to more and more name calling
It's amazing how this kind of shit wouldn't effect places like /toy/ /co/ and /vp/ yet in /vr/ and /v/ it will always destroy a thread.

>>768381

>persistence is the only skill required

I've been playing fighting games since Street fighter 2 and I play them quite frequently. Some of my favorites include X-Men Vs SF, Virtua Fighter 5, Guilty Gear, Street Fighter 3 TS, and DBZ Budokai 3.

But I still suck. Yeah, I'm better than below average people but boy do I still fucking suck.

My current gf loves Yoshi's Island and Super Mario World, and has played them to death, but she still fucking sucks at them. Dies all the fucking time to the stupidest shit.

In my experience you need more than persistence, because I got good at shit like Tetris Attack practically instantly.

>>768387

I used to troll over in /vp/ all the time, and it didn't really take much to piss people off and derail a thread.

things are better now, eh?

Another perfectly good thread derailed. It's like /v/ all over again.

>>768397

Well I used to love SM3, even got to Bowser a couple of times as a kid. But can't play it worth a shit now and find it frustrating just like most of platformers. I can tell you some more anecdotal evidence.

I miss the greater risks and chances game developers took with new intellectual properties.

I am NOT looking back with rose-tinted lenses: I recognize that derivative game design and sequelitis took root almost immediately in the gaming industry. Nor do I deny that fresh/original content is being produced today. I just feel that there is less of it. Game companies, especially the big ones, are much more likely to produce a game under a franchise banner than a work completely original. Yes, companies did the same thing back in the day, but they also had more small-scale franchises or even one-off titles than they do today.

Nowadays, when companies mentioned "new IPs," they're more often than not variations on an existing theme. Even if they try to do something new(ish), they'll likely slap on a familiar name and call it a reboot.

>>768404
Expecting individual boards on a common site with the same core userbase to function completely differently is folly.

>>768403
Well, you did leave

>>768250
How exactly did you miss the point that it has nothing to do with liking or disliking Crystalis and that "retro cred" is used in a jibe akin to "casual?" You and that other poster are everything wrong with /v/. Don't bring that shit to /vr/.

>>768428

I did. That much is true.

I'll probably swing by when X/Y comes out. Mostly for friendly discussion though.

>>768434
Everyone in /vr/ came from /v/, including you. You aren't a special class.

>>768427
Fair enough, but on the whole this board is exceptionally good at staying in topic, especially when compared to larger communities like /fit/ or /v/. It's smaller size is its strength. Usually trolls on this board don't seem to get as much of a reaction here as they do on larger boards.

>>768451

I came from /vg/

>>766840
75% of games released in the last year have 16/32/64-bit pixel artwork. It's not exactly in short supply.

>>768451
I came from /ck/, actually. I tried /v/ a number of years ago and hated it. When /vr/ debuted, I've slowly replaced my /ck/ time with /vr/ time. I love /vr/ and never want to see it degrade into the shit fest that is /v/.

>>768461
I've never been to /vg/. I assumed it was mostly for FPS and WoW. Am I wrong?

>>768468
I'm going to need a source on that, because unless you're counting virtual console et al rereleases, that's pretty much bullshit.

>>768456

depends on the crowd, you wouldn't want /vr/ to turn into a circle jerk that perpetuates the same opinions over and over and treats it as their secret club house, like say /mu/

>>768461
So you are admitting you haven't been on 4chan for more than a year

>>768461
I came from /sci/

>>768239
>there are plenty of modern games with secret levels
Yeah, of course there are always exceptions, but general trends cannot be denied.

Games are definitely much more forgiving than they were in the past. You really can't argue otherwise.
DLC was usually more significant in the past. You really can't argue otherwise.
There were a lot more short arcade-like games in the past. You really can't argue otherwise.

Going with your music example, there is actual evidence to support that modern music in general is much simpler and much more homogenized than in the 60s and 70s.
Pretty much everyone that cares even a little bit about music would consider that a bad thing, so yes, modern music is worse in general.

Again, the important part is IN GENERAL. We are speaking generally. There will always be some exceptions, but that is not important in this discussion.

>>768263
The more successful arcade games provide a fair, but very significant and difficult to surmount challenge.
If a game is clearly unfair bullshit, a player is far less likely to put more quarters in the machine and continue playing, so the game would not be successful.
Arcade games really only work if your deaths feel justified most of the time, or if there's some unique draw. This ain't gambling. All you get for winning is the satisfaction of beating a good game, and maybe a handful of tickets that get you some fake vampire teeth or whatever.

>>766839
Gameplays that aren't movies in disguise.

>>768637
But anon...

>>768654
>That one exception

>>768654
Nah, a real movie in disguise would be something like Dragon's Lair or Time Gal, or something else that is mostly simple scripted sequences with two outcomes at any given time - win or lose - and no variance in either outcome.
MGS has plenty of gameplay, and there is a lot of variety in how you can win or lose, or how you can choose to tackle most situations. Being heavy on cutscenes does not make it a movie in disguise, and this is coming from someone who thinks cutscenes really do not belong in games outside of intros or endings, PERIOD.

>>766839
You cant beat them in one afternoon. I notice a lot of modern games aren't even worth buying because of how insanely short and repetitive they are.

>>768753
Uhhhh
Until you got to the PS1 and N64 era, and even then, the majority of games were rather short.

>>766842
Rayman Origins, Knytt Underground, Super Meat Boy, Dustforce, Sonic Generations (or Unleashed if you don't mind playing the Werehog stages), and Cave Story are all great.

>>768762
Thats what I was referring to. When OP said Classic games i didnt have stuff like Dig Dug in mind.

Difficulty, for one.
I like playing a game on easy for the story, but I have a soft spot for a game that whoops my ass and leaves me begging for more.

I wish I had a rom cart so I could play Parallel Worlds. I just can't get the hang of playing a Zelda game with my fingertips instead of my thumbs.

>>768771
Erm...
I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

>>768757
What about Uncharted

>>768787
If you run PC rather than some other operating system, buy a Microsoft wireless USB adapter for 360° controllers. Do this and you'll be able to use a standard 360° controller to play your emu stuffs.
It's what I do.

I miss adventure games and platformers. I can only replay Ristar so many times. At least Phoenix Wright is getting a sequel and Capcom haven't screwed up the series (yet) and there's the Zero Escape series as well.

>>767746
>rayman origins

My nigga. It's like Tony Hawk 3 as a platformer.

I miss well made 2D games. I still play all the 2D metroid and Castlevania games all the time.

The DS and GBA had some god-tier games that reminded me of the best of the SNES/Genesis era

>>768796
I still haven't played it, sadly. I don't have a PS3 and the Vita game is pretty expensive, so I probably won't have any of them for a while.

All sorts of things:

>A relatively short length: it's very often possible to finish in a day
>A more 'digital' feel: the ideas are simple ones taken to logical extremes (Mega Man is a perfect example)
>More personality: older games, particularly those made by smaller companies, have a charm that no modern game, indie or otherwise, can replicate
>There's a much greater sense of accomplishment when you finish a tough-as-nails game within a fixed life/continue limit than when you finish a game with infinite retries at every point
>Classic games have more unique worlds, with interesting colours and sounds and synthesized music: too many modern games are focused on making things realistic are full of greys and browns and largely forgettable orchestral scores (this is likely a very personal preference)

Probably some other stuff, too, but these are the obvious ones for me.

>>768796
Uncharted 2 is great. It nailed the "interactive Indiana Jones Adventure" concept.

The other 2 just aren't as good. The first one was still experimenting with all the mechanics, and the third one was obviously rushed and strung together

All sorts of things:

>A relatively short length: it's very often possible to finish in a day
>A more 'digital' feel: the ideas are simple ones taken to logical extremes (Mega Man is a perfect example)
>More personality: older games, particularly those made by smaller companies, have a charm that no modern game, indie or otherwise, can replicate
>There's a much greater sense of accomplishment when you finish a tough-as-nails game within a fixed life/continue limit than when you finish a game with infinite retries at every point
>Classic games have more unique worlds, with interesting colours and sounds and synthesized music: too many modern games are focused on making things realistic and are full of greys and browns and largely forgettable orchestral scores (this is obviously a very personal preference)

I still play modern games that follow these principles (and some others I've no doubt forgotten), but they're sadly much rarer than they used to be, even with the recent indie boom.

The highest difficulty nowadays seems to be quite easier than it used to be. Very Hard in the old days was nearly impossible without being perfect, nowadays many games let you make mistakes even on the highest difficulty. I like unforgiving difficulty once I've mastered the game, because now that I've already beaten it I know what's coming and most of the difficulty is gone unless it demands a lot from me.

I miss having less checkpoints and only being able to save in certain areas. I don't mind something like the quick save feature in Choro Trigger for DS because you can stop on a dime when you want but you can't simply revert to that quick save when you die or whatever.

Games never pit you up against douche bag rivals anymore. I always thought it was kind of a cool and funny feature to have someone that is your equal in a world full of minions and bosses you can usually overcome easily. It makes you work harder at the game too.

Co-op that isn't online. Split screen can be bothersome thanks to hardware issues involving reduced field of view and such, but now there seems to be less and less options for 2 people who want to play at home as a team. It's all so competitive and "you versus the world" anymore. There's no time for friendships or anything but PvP in a local setting and it sucks. There are exceptions but not many.

I also miss not having a million fucking developer screens every time I start a game. In the old days like Contra you started it up and it went straight to the title screen. Now the average game, especially on consoles, has you waiting at least a minute or two as they actually forbid you to skip these intro sequences. I mean, I understand giving people who developed the game their dues, but don't make it sow we have to see your stupid company's logo every time we want to play a game.

I miss the fact incredibly limited HW resources forced devs to focus on quality instead of quality. (i.e. full voice acting today being standard)

I also miss devs weren't scared to put entirely optional and huge missable parts into their games. Nowadays whenever someone goes out of their way and put some neat secret or optional thing to do they also feel the need to rub our noses in it.
Basically they're afraid people won't notice all their "hard" work. What's the point of missables you can't fucking miss?

>>768964
Some of the stuff hidden the older JRPG's was insane

It's good to have that kind of reward for players who want to see everything, but for people who don't have 100+ hours to put into a game, it's a little sad that most people will miss it

All the cute artwork.

Game manuals actually worth looking at

>>768995
>it's a little sad that most people will miss it
But that's what makes it so great in the first place. People missing it.
If everyone can easily find it, it's no longer a secret.

With modern games I feel like I'm just following a path. I remember playing fable a couple years ago and when I played it you just follow this glowing line everywhere you go to get to your next destination.

>>768610
take this

>>768253
Trine 2 definitely ranks up there as one of the funnest co-op experiences I've ever had in a video game. It's also one of the most beautiful games I've played, which is surprising since the game uses Unreal iirc.

>>769041

Seriously. I was just reading the manual for Parasite Eve, a game I've played before and it even tells you that you take less damage with full parasite energy. I had no idea

>>769109
"Today's music has no dynamic range anymore"

Counterexamples please

>>769109
READ.
I'm talking about general trends, not exceptions.
Most of the albums in that image are exceptions, and they only work because the statements on the left are worded such that they can be disproved with a single example to the contrary.
I haven't made statements like that. In fact, I've done the opposite, and said there will ALWAYS be exceptions.

Also, check out this graph of timbral variety over time.

>>768929
>using "anymore" as an affirmative
Philadelphia area detected.

The re-playability.

>>768841
What do you think of them making AA5 e-shop download only?