/vr/ - Retro Games

the original camera in mario 64 is better than the pc port

Hating popular things does not make you an interesting person.

>>7679098
Truths you don't want to hear, no one gives a fuck.

>>7679117
Liking unpopular things does not make you an interesting person

>>7679117
SHUT UP
SHUT UP
SHUT UP

>>7679098
You will make me hate a game if you start spamming it in every thread.

>>7679098
sonic 1, 2, and 3 were all interactive demoscenes

All videogames are a temporary waste of time you might as well use savestates for if you just want to see the end of it.

>>7679145
That's debatable, and most people would at least find a person with niche hobbies more interesting than a contrarian.

Using savestates is the modern day way to fix outdated gamedesign choices.

the jump to 3d was done one generation too soon. everything would’ve been better if they’d held off until ~2000.

If you poo you pee

>>7679359
In the future, "game over"s are going to be considered outdated game design choices.

nintendo hasn't been good since 1993

>>7679098
I saved the game in Quake and Doom, why is it wrong for me to do the same thing in Mario?

>>7679415
Sony was never good

>>7679435
Those features were built in to doom and quake. Not true for mario.

That's fine, but what about official or officially licensed third party turbo controllers that make a game 10x easier to beat?

>>7679452
If the only thing hard about your game was needing the endurance to press the same fucking button over and over again, your game wasn't really hard to begin with.

>>7679098
Save states are legit practice tools
You didn't beat a game until you 1cc it
Biologically impossible for men to become women

Single player games will never truly be challenging like multiplayer vs humans

>>7679098
says you

>>7679359
outdated choices like fun?

Original cartridges are pointless when ROMs are free

>>7679124
>>7679278
>>7679359
>>7679435
>>7679462
>>7679472
You didn't beat the game

>>7679098
Emulation is the purest form of playing retro video games. Emulator bros don't want to break the bank hunting down old copies and setting up elaborate fail-son-permavirgin rooms for the primary purpose of collection--they just want to actually play the damn games.

Run-ahead makes input lag negligible and you just need to literally git gud.

Filters aren't perfect but they're a perfectly reasonably alternative to having some outdated shitty box taking up space so you can play like 10 Sega Genesis games.

>>7679482
It doesn't matter either way. I had fun, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

And you will still never be a woman.

>>7679482
Didn't waste hours of my life being frustrated at electronic toys during my leisure time after a hard day's work, either.

>>7679558
t. overdosed on video games now copes

>>7679462
1cc is tranny speedrunner territory

>>7679564
Your mum copes everyday, too.

Darkstalkers actually sold pretty well.

>>7679098
Emulators or collecting are the same. Nobody who is passionate about either actually plays games. If you cared about the games you'd play them by any means necessary.

>>7679413
they have been for about 15 years now. i can't remember the last prominent game without a checkpoint system.

>>7679098
There's nothing wrong with backtracking.

>>7679098
This argument only has merit if the year is 1993 and you're talking to actual 10 year olds playing snes/genesis games who somehow have access to save states

To say this to 30+ year old men in the current year with careers and families is fucking cringe and strawman weirdness. You'd literally have to be a childless spouseless no-job incel to even consider making such a thread

>>7679098
If you haven't played the game, then you have no right shitting on it.

>>7679643
...unless you have eye, ears, and at least 5% of your brain.

>>7679638
Why are you so mad that you didn't beat a game?

>>7679638
>games expensive
>must emulate 'cause busy adult
>games hard
>must cheat 'cause busy adult
>games long
>must watch 'cause busy adult
What's up with people bringing up being a "busy adult" for an excuse for everything? That has never been a valid excuse for anything, at any time.

I always poke my head into threads like this because savestate babs just can't NOT take the most obvious bait; it makes your uncertainty about whether you actually beat the game so obvious.

savestatefags cannot handle the fact that it's them who need to learn from mistakes and improve. they cant play a game if they cant put progress on a discernible metric like checkpoints. doing a section and becoming a better player is such a vague condition they do not wish to take a risk of trying to learn because there is no guarantee they will become a better player and eventually overcome the obstacle as intended. instead they mechanically force progress by snapshotting a retry point and lie to themselves it is necessary due to game being faulty rather than this whole thing stemming from their own insecurity and self doubt.

>>7679674
I wonder how they even play modern video games. Those don't have save states.

>>7679098
>If you used a savestate, then you didn't beat the game.
STFU

>>7679706
True; they can't stand losing, so they'll never learn anything.

>>7679718
Most modern games have multiple checkpoints per level, so when you die you're only sent back a little bit. Old games had 1, maybe 2 checkpoints if you're lucky, and if you ran out lives you could be sent back several levels, or have to start over from the very beginning of the game.
All that unforgiving bullshit was to pad out the game, because if nes games were as generous with their checkpoints as modern games are they'd only be an hour or two long.

>>7679107
You can use any camera on the pc port.

>>7679558
Is nobody gonna talk about the cup?

>>7679758
It also completely misses the point that you may have a limited timeframe to play the game. (say, between dinner and bedtime),and most of the NES games had no save functionality whatsoever. Between no saves, limited playtime, restarting on game over (or at least being shunted back a ways) and the lockout chip being a finnicky piece of shit if the console moved an inch, I wasn't able to do a long play of SMB3 until like 2005.
It did make the games feel longer, if only because of constraints that weren't actually a part of them.
Personally, I try to avoid savestates and save scumming in general, but I'll use it to bypass or simplify segments that I don't find fun.

>>7679278
Might as well KYS.

>>7679450
Thats not a very good reason. You're just as bad as those NES save staters.

>>7679462
>Save states are legit practice tools
You will never learn anything organically this way. I've been stuck on tricky sections and DREAMED the answer before. Keep save stating and denying yourself the true experience.

>>7679098
ITT: Watch dirty emufags seethe over realities they refuse to accept.

>>7679098
dont care had fun

>>7679719
>t. didn't beat the game

>>7679098
>If you used a savestate, then you didn't beat the game.
This, including using savestates for "practice". As soon as you do that you'll have never legitimately finished a game even if you do a run with no savestates later

>>7679523
>Emulation is the purest form of playing retro video games
Software emulation is horrendous garbage that poor third worlders with low standards desperately want to believe is a good way, let alone even an adequate way, to play classic games

>>7679558
>Tfc
>complete faggot
who would have guessed, now get necked brony

>>7679359
>outdated gamedesign choices

The final, ultimate /vr/ redpill is that modern games are better

>>7680751
Based. Oldshit can die in a fire

>>7680751

>>7680254
>talking shit about tfc
don't be a gay
oh wait too late

>>7679283
>holy shit a girl is looking at me
>"hey anon, what do you do for fun?"
>well I have a couple ant colonies
>"uh, in that case I'll just have a chicken salad and a bottle of mineral water"
>that'll be $8.99

>>7679098
* Modems on game consoles ruined video games.
* Gacha shit is gambling
* You just lost THE GAME
* OP is a fag

>>7679098
Yeah I don't care I play games for fun not for bragging rights

>>7681120
I can respect this response; at the end of the day, it's just a game - play it the way you want. What I find funny are the people who use savestates and get really fucking defensive about it. Makes me smell blood in the water.

>>7679098
Caring about what other people do like this makes you an immature child.

>>7679098
Amiga had some pretty good games.
Shadow of the beast is fun and not just a graphic demo.
A lot of retro games don't look good on an lcd.
If you play a beat em up by mashing a you are playing it wrong.

>>7679758
Modern games are consumables like movies. You run through the game once and move on to the next. Old games were infinitely replayable. They were only a couple of minutes or hours long but you could play them over and over.

>>7679462
>1ccfags are actually just cheaters
That makes more sense.

>>7681159
Caring about what other people do like this makes you an immature child.

>>7679098
>painful truths
You are the reason your dad left and your mom regrets not aborting you every day.

>>7681302
Do people here actually come from broken homes?

>>7680043
True, but it isn't cheating to use the tools the devs handed you. You're shit, but you still beat doom or quake even if you save scummed.

>>7679283
>"hey anon! What do you like to do?"
>I like to shove rocks up my ass, it's a super niche hobby.
>wow haha you're so interesting anon! Let's go out.

>>7680751
Honestly not true. I have more fun playing retro than modern, and I didn't even grow up during the times.

>>7680785
I'm not sure how the last two lines relate to the rest of the story. He's taking her order?

Anyway, compare that with
>hey anon, want to to see Avengers 10 and then grab dinner at Trendy Restaurant?
>no, superhero movies ruined cinema and Trendy Restaurant is overpriced dog food
>okay okay, geez who put the crap in your cornflakes

At least the guy in your scenario isn't pushing people away

Europeans are not meant for video games. They do not appreciate them or contribute anything meaningful to the hobby, and certainly not to it's discussion. The UK maybe gets partial citizenship into Gamer Nation but they are not fully naturalized citizens by any stretch of the imagination. This is the truth that they are unwilling to accept and screech about anytime it is addressed.

>>7679107
I honestly and unironically agree. I prefer having to occasionally press the yellow buttons a couple times than constantly having to fidget around with the camera so it's not retarded. And that's not mentioning that for a good while PC camera was so broken with the wing cap that original camera was affected too, not sure if it was ever fixed.

>>7679098
Beating a video game is not an achievement worth thinking highly of.

>>7679462
Came here to post this.
1cc else you didn't win the game.

The SNES only runs at a mere 1/3rd the speed of ALL it's competitors, including much older ones, such as the Mega Drive, PC Engine, and even the Amiga.

Beating a video game is not an accomplishment

>>7681805
that was its only con though, everything else from colors to sound to the controller it did better than tg16 and genny.

>>7681946
6 button genesis controller is the best ever

>>7681964
nah. shit d-pad, no shoulder buttons (no, the mode button doesn't count), and the overall ergonomics is shit. Saturn's was good tho.

>>7681467
After I learned that Ninja Gaiden 2006 was supposed to be a difficult game it felt like an achievement finishing it. Earthworm Jim was challenging for me and that also felt like an achievement. Battle Unit Zeoth wasn't a hard game but it took me couple of tries and I think highly of beating it. One day I'll beat Rush n' Attack and that will be my lifetime achievement.

>>7679098
Save states are only acceptable to use to skip loading times

>>7679098
Dont use save states but long as u aint abusing them to fix fuck ups, aint much different then just leaving ur console on over night

>>7681805
I had a SNES, I like the SNES more than Genesis and TGFX16, and have no problem admitting this! Every system had it's pros and cons and it's a golden age because now I can emulate them all :)

>>7682001
>it felt like an achievement finishing it.
Its not. No one cares you beat Earthworm Jim. No one is impressed you beat Rush n' Attack. These are not achievements of any kind.

>>7679098
I don't see an issue with them as long as you're not abusing them. It's no different than when you had to pause your Nintendo and leave it on to keep your spot if you had to go do something else when you were a kid.

>>7679435
>why is it wrong for me to do the same thing in Mario?
it's actually pronounced Mario

>>7682209
perseverance through hardship to accomplish a goal is a personal achievement, regardless of context

>>7681994
Aren't the saturn and genesis D-pads basically the same?

>>7682001
Fuck this guy >>7682209
Buncha negative douchebags on this board, man.

I've never made it far in EWJ. It always looked great but I never really put in the time to learn it. Great job, dude. That's a solid win. Maybe I'll give it another shot myself.

>>7682242
I played it on PC maybe that version might be more up you alley.

Sonic is the Weezer of video games. People claim they haven't been good since the 90s, but the truth is that they were never good in the first place.

>>7679098
true

>>7679558
Wanna know another way to not get frustrated by video games? Don't play them.

>>7681183
games weren't any more repayable, you were just a child with no disposable income so your only choice was to play the same game over and over until your parents bought you a new one

>>7679098
Yes

>>7679731
but I'm winning at life so I don't really care

>>7679482
ok

>>7682001
go outside dude

lol oh no some cocksucker on 4chan thinks I cheated at the 25 year old video game whatever will I do

You were a KID, you were inexperienced, young, and stupid. You had poor planning and improvisation skills. The concept of investment was lost on you. Games were not "harder" back then, you were a kid who was bad at games.

>>7683968
"thinks"
you just admitted it loser

>>7682774
imagine being wrong about everything

-oomer variants are gay and retarded

>>7679638
Why are you playing vidya, big boy?

>>7679482
It depends HOW the savestate is being used. Just using it as a timesaver to avoid inputting a long fucking password to continue where you left off from? Great, you do that. Doing it so you can redo a tricky jump in a platformer until you don't fuck up? You can fuck right off.

>>7683984
nah second gen was designed to eat quarters and later discourage rentals. late 2nd/early 3rd gen is when design started to emphasize accessibility in order to expand the home market

>>7679098
>Truths that some don't want to hear
It's a stone, Luigi. You didn't make it.

Exploiting any glitches in your speedrun, scorerun or whatever should invalidate your run and be considered a form of cheating.

>>7682001
video games are designed to be beaten

>>7684807
Whether something is considered a glitch or not, can be arbitrary. I think the rules should be left to an agreed upon consensus created by the game's speedrunning community.

>>7684914
Agreed. It's kind of like that post I saw once about allowing an Olympics but where everyone can roid out as much as they want. As long as everyone's cool with it.
If you don't want to see glitches, play/watch the glitchless category.

>>7681307
What about console commands, cheat codes, and debug modes? You can beat the entire game in a couple of minutes with those without actually playing it all the way through and the developers consciously decided to include them.

>>7679482
they are seeething! You can just, y'know, pickup a game like SMB2J and, DIE fair and square, and try again from the HALF WAY POINT or god forbid THE START OF THE WORLD YOU WERE IN. GOD. OR GOD FORBID PLAY LOST LEVELS IN ALL STARS AND CHOOSE THE WORLD YOU'D LIKE TO START FROM. HOLY

>>7685634
For the most part those are locked behind key combos or passwords and they usually don't tell you how to activate them, if they do it's often after you finish, so not the same.

>>7682232
if I persevere to coom in an old sock for the 8th time today even though my balls are nearly empty and my dick is chafed, is that an achievement?

>>7679098
Here's a truth you don't want to hear, OP. People are only pretentious about savestates because they didn't have them as a kid when playing those games. I used savestates to beat Castlevania IV and I still felt like I beat.

>>7686123
if it weren't then you wouldn't

>>7679482
>You didn't beat the game
What does this even mean? I don't think most of us here are playing games in cash tournaments or speedrun competitions where game completion means something.

>>7679532

>>7680202
Holy fucking based

>>7683984
Explain why zoomers get filtered by /vr/ games.

>>7679482
>all these replies
Yep, /v/ trannies seething

>>7686135
>I used savestates to beat Castlevania IV
Yikes, are you crippled or something?

>>7679098
Don't care virgin

>>7685969
your mental gymnastics are adorable. they dont make you right though, lol. also you're probably still a failure at life.

>>7679098
What about saving when you get a checkpoint? For example, what if I get a checkpoint in game in Sonic 2, then use a save state and come back later so I don’t have to go through all the levels again? Is that cheating?

>>7686645
Yes, because you have an advantage that is not present when playing the game the way it was physically released. I am sorry to hear you have never really beat sonic 2.

>>7679098
OH noes, I won't unlock my achievements?

>>7687031
Wear a wig and a dress and attend AGDQ otherwise you're not playing it with proper skill.

>>7679674
I play games to have fun, not to produce some kind of "achievement". If a game plays better for me using savestates, walkthroughs or cheats, then I will use savestates, walkthroughs or cheats.

>>7687125
When talking with the boys you have to lie about beating games. Enjoy hell you lying sinner.

>>7687149
Literally no one gives a shit.

savestates don't count against you if they take the place of legit saves/passwords.

>>7679638
if you have spare time to play games, you have spare time to play them properly.

>>7679462
I agree with this.
3cc gets some props, but you haven't achieved true victory until 1cc.
using savestates to add a few extra checkpoints, or practice a difficult section, is generally permissible, as long as you're not savescumming. however, you still have to play through fairly to make it count.
I'll give an example. recently, I played Marble Madness, a game I didn't grow up with, but of course I knew its infamous reputation. it kicked my ass at first, but within a few days I was consistently getting to the final level. however, there's a part at the end where there's a pathway of shifting blocks, and it takes practice to get the execution down, and you're usually pressed for time. screw up, and you have to replay the whole game just to get there. so yes, I savestated and practiced that part, but later did a fair run and beat the game. there's no shame in this, because it improved the game and took away tedium, and I beat it without savestates afterwards.

>>7680751
You're right. I love buying a game that I don't own, have to update, verifies my identity, and when the system clock dies and it can't verify my achievements it's a paperweight. Based!

>>7687181
>savestates don't count against you if they take the place of legit saves/passwords.
I'm curious, do you draw the line at save scumming or is that acceptable too? Is it acceptable in certain games/genres, are there other factors, etc?

>>7687362
replacing passwords/save points with savestates is strictly a matter of convenience, and doesn't affect the challenge, so that's always allowed. savescumming (ie substantial reliance on savestates throughout) is cheesing your way through.
as I said, if you use savestates beyond the constraints of the game, you should have a good reason for doing so, like practicing a certain part without too much repetitiveness (I gave a good example in that post). while I think that's ok, you still haven't really beaten the game unless you 3cc or preferably 1cc it without any extra savestating.

>>7687389
>and doesn't affect the challenge, so that's always allowed.
It shouldn't. On start up to World Warrior I would input down R up L Y B every time. I'm going to say this helped improve my timing with inputs in game. According to you entering it once is enough and should never be done again.

>>7687424
never played that game. usually, it's just a matter of convenience, avoiding the save process (which can have issues) or inputting a password. there certainly may be exceptions where you're losing something of the game that way. what I said is often true, but perhaps not always.

PVMs with RGB input weren't the way games were meant to be played.

>>7679098
If you are this obsessed with how complete strangers play vidya, you're an autistic faggot.

>>7679674
Not everybody is a worthless manchild faggot like you, anon.

>>7686537
>spews buzzwords and projection after proven wrong
Yep, back to >>>/v/ ya go

>all these casuals, on /vr/ of all places
Man, normalfags really ruined this place huh?

>>7679718
And they're longer and have more padded out garbage than retro games.

>>7679098
I don't have time to beat this outdated shit legit. If you were a functioning grown man and not an autist you would understand this. I'm a very busy adult, hence why I let other men fuck my wife because I don't have the time to do it myself.

Your opinion does not matter.

>>7679674
"busy adult" is zoomer code for fortnite

>>7679706

>>7679482
Yes I did.

>>7684113
Tell me, what is the mechanical difference in saving your game so that it's right before the jump or going back to the start of the level to redo it before doing that jump? In both cases you couldn't proceed until you finished the jump.

>>7681395
Americans unironically ruined video games.

>>7679098
People here take video games way too seriously.

>>7687389
I appreciate the honest answer. I was wondering about different genres because I used save scumming a lot on like Starcraft campaigns to try different strategies. I don't see the purpose in going back to the start of the mission just to repeat the minutiae of the early macro just so I can see different outcomes of decisions.

Beaten the game? No
Experienced the whole thing so I can just move on to the next game? Yes

If the game is good enough to replay the right way, then I'll beat it. There's too much good vidya out there and too little time to just linger on one.

>>7679098
I feel like save states can be OK. Like if you need to leave abruptly and just save your progress and resume from that point later. It's not as though you cheated as such. You merely split your play session.

Saving constantly so you can effectively prevent yourself from losing ever and killing all challenge is actually cheating.

>>7688869
>Experienced the whole thing so I can just move on to the next game? Yes
Are you even playing games for fun at that point, or just to complete some bizarre mental checklist?

>>7688897
Both. Gotta experience as much as possible with what little free time I have.

>>7679098
If you used a savestate, then you DID beat the game.

>>7679098
>>7679359

>>7689417
Well if an idiot youtuber says it, it MUST be true!

>>7688912
>Gotta experience as much as possible
But why? Unless you are making your own retro game, it's not better to play that game as much as possible to enjoy it and know more about it?

The best part of retro games are the cheats.

>>7689417
11" Mike spitting straight facts desu

>>7689504
Theyre 100% right

>>7689542
I like forming my own opinions on games and...well..I just like games. I would love to make my own game, but I'm only really decent at making art assets, not coding.

>>7679098
If you reloaded a save file after failing a mission you didn't beat the game.

>>7686351
Cuz they are used to have all of the modern advantages like check points, save points, patches, etc.

>>7679674
Old video games generally take you some time get good at in order to beat them legit. I had time to do that when I was in my early 20s, but now, I really just don't have the time to sink into a retro game I'm not already good at.

If you die in the game, you die in real life.

>>7688868
no prob. as I said, if you use savestates, you should have a rationale. if you're practicing Starcraft and want to see how different tactics play out, that's fine, but it's not a fair victory when you play that way.

>>7690282
as I said, if you have time for a hobby, you have time to do it right and not half-ass it. I can understand looking up online resources so you don't have to map things out or scour the game for secrets, and I understand using savestates for practice, but otherwise, savescumming and cheating should be avoided.

>>7689417
based

>>7690291
>as I said, if you have time for a hobby, you have time to do it right and not half-ass it.
People can enjoy their hobbies however they want, with as much or as little free time as they have. Why get upset over someone savescumming and having fun? Why act like such a busybody? Are you the sort of person who complains when your neighbor's grass is a bit too tall, and then also complains when they mow it at a time that's inconvenient for you? Because that's how you're coming across right now.

>>7690303
no, I'm not like that. I'm not upset, but I think savescumming is a dishonorable, improper way of playing vidya. ultimately, if you care about a hobby, you want it to be done properly and treated with respect.

>>7689542
>Unless you are making your own retro game
Not him, but just made me realize why I have the compulsion to play so many games rather than perfecting one, or even one genre. I am trying to make a game, and absorbing gameplay ideas, designs and music is something really enriching that makes me appreciate games and what's behind them.

I still don't use savestates though lmao

>>7690291
Yea, I've beaten the SC2 campaigns on brutal, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I savescummed a lot of missions until I figured out strategies. I have gone back and beaten the missions without it, particularly once I learn how good specific research/upgrades are in certain missions, though in fairness I was still learning how to be decent at mp when I started.
I try not to savescum when it would let me avoid a scripted attack that I'm otherwise unaware of, and I'll either restart or go back to an earlier checkpoint. But that's not really different from memorizing the timing.

I generally beat platformers and other stuff legit the first time before I start using cheats or savestates. Like I 100% SA2B before I even installed mods on the PC version. There is a feeling of accomplishment in seeing all of those A's on the level select screen, even if the kart levels were fucking awful to get them.

I feel like the intent of the thread is to incite some fighting with a hot take but it ends up leading to a lot of disingenuous, bad faith posting. Obviously not good if you're actually trying to get people's opinion.

>>7690303
My hobby is mocking fools who insist on trying to justify their lazy, shit ways of doing hobbies to strangers on the internet.

>>7690507
as long as you savestate with discretion and restraint, it's usually acceptable. that's what I was getting at.
I agree with that last point, for sure.

I work 96 hours a fortnight. I need to use save states.

>>7679098
It depends on how you use the savestates. If you're using them to quickly restart after dying than I agree, I only use them to pick up right where I left off from my last time playing something. It the equivalent of just leaving the console on.

>>7679098
I can live with that.
Hell, sometimes I'll just watch playthroughs. I'm not out to impress anyone. Especially not randos here

>>7690507
>tfw 100%'d SA2B with mods
>Rouge mods

I think using savestates is cheating.
However, if you care about this opinion of mine, fucking get a life loser. The fuck do you care what I think?

>>7679098
>>7679107
>>7679674
they hated him for telling the truth.

>>7679359
>outdated says anon
>post a comic form a "outdated" dead religion
Oh You

At this point I don't care

If I was 14 years old I could grind it out and retry for hours until I beat it

But as a 32 year old I cannot see myself restarting some cheap final level over and over, ain't nobody got time for that

>>7679462
based

>>7680048
>learning things incrementally is bad
>Your not allowed to isolate problem areas to resolve them
>you need to be a wide receiver for the NFL before you can learn to catch a ball
KEK

>>7690525
I think you mean you play fortnite 96 hours a week so have to use save states

>>7679098
I'll proudly cheat and use savestates whenever i feel like it if the game is being cheap ill just out cheat it.

Normally though i never save state mid boss fight or shit like that but rng minigames i always break and if the boss is at the end of some grindy level or some shit fuck it ill save beforehand

Cheat codes and passwords are the coolest part of retro games.

if you did not reset the console every time you died, you did not beat the game.
Lives and continues were crutches afforded to children so they didn't throw a tantrum. Basically, if you utilized the lives system, you were on baby-mode.
Don't give a shit if it's "literally impossible" to beat the game without them (it's not), you're a fucking child, and you need to grow up.

>>7691498
> if you utilized the lives system, you were on baby-mode
this but unironically

>>7679098
Game Boy Color and Advance had really underwhelming libraries with only a few essential games
GBC was especially poor and barely felt like an upgrade over the original

OP here, I'm disappointed that so many of you are unironically disagreeing on such an obvious point. You can stop replying now and let this thread die.

>>7691595
but I agree with you OP

>>7679098
Yes! I did not beat the game, but I had fun not doing it :^)
>>7679359
Yup, fucking arcade leftovers.
>>7688869
Fucking Chad, yes.

>>7691498
I see what you're doing, but a no-deaths run is above and beyond the call of duty. the minimum for beating a game is 3cc, and the gold standard is 1cc.

>>7688786
Quite simple. In the example of the jump, it's probably not the only one like it. So you can accept you're going to be redoing EVERY similar jump again and again until you get lucky and get over. Or you can actually learn the jump so the later ones like it don't fuck you over. And if you decide you want to play the game again, you won't need to be savestating your way to victory.

All good games should punish players for messing up, to what extent is determined by the game itself. Being too lenient or extreme with punishment can cause a game to become more boring or frustrating respectively, and there is a broad spectrum of difficulty in games, some hard, some not so hard, to chose from. Regardless, those are the game's rules. If you don't play by the game's rules, then you didn't beat the game. You don't change the game's rules to accommodate your bad play.
TLDR: get fucking filtered

>>7695303
Based and holypilled.

You can enjoy retro things and modern things without being a gigantic faggot.
I see online retrofags always have this air of smugness even when they're completely wrong.
Retrofags are not fans of retro mind you, retrofags are people that buy carts of Earthbound despite never having played it and will not ever play it.

>>7679452
I have life-long tendonitis.

>>7691498
Nice bait, but still a mongoloid tier retard take

>>7695303
Ok I get at what you are saying, but what about games that allow you to mod it? Does that compute?

>>7679098
Playing retro games is not a competition. You don't get a fucking medal for 1CCing a game without savestates or playing with the right CRT filter or using the most accurate emulator. Just play your games the way you like and enjoy yourself. That's the reason they exist.

>>7697340
There are literally competitions all the time you dumb fuck
Also, imagine how hilarious it would be if cheating faggots played games that involved leaving their parents basement and coped about their cheating in public like this.
>faggot rolls up to Carnoustie Championship course
>Uses air powered golf ball gun to launch balls at holes
>Insists each shot that's not a hole in one doesn't count
>Goes back to the clubhouse and brags about he scored 54 under par
>Screams and cries when everyone laughs at him and tells him he's a loser
There's a reason parents keep these kinds of vile creatures locked away in the basement.

>>7697590
>There are literally competitions all the time you dumb fuck
There ARE competitionS. Retro gaming itself is not a competition.
But I'm pretty sure you're too stupid to be able to understand that.

>>7697661
Yes I am? What?

>>7679413
What do you mean "in the future" ? The concept of "game over" hasn't been a thing since like....the PS2/GC/Xbox era.

Retroarch sucks in every way outside of the low latency and scaling.
t. RA user for years now

>escalators are installed on Mount Everest
>you ride it all the way to the top and snap a picture

Guys it doesn't matter how I did it, I'm here woohoo!! I'm climber man!!

What if I used a save state after beating the final boss?

>>7697661
Golf isn't a competition either. But great for an analogy of cringe your cringe is. But please. Do carry on trying to justify shitposting about cheating at games to strangers on the internet. You're totally going to convince anyone you're not a faggot.

>>7679098
It's more fun and satisfying to not use abusive savestates, but it doesn't fucking matter when people do. They're having a different experience and while for their own sakes I'd suggest that they try playing regularly / only use states at password screens, if they're happy with what they're doing then good for them. Oh, and trans women are women.

>>7697795
Great, anon, now try to prove your point without an analogy cause it's logical fallacy and not an argument.

>>7697795
> if you used a climbing rope or pick at any point you didn't climb the mountain, REAL climbers fall to their fucking death and climb with their bare hands

>>7697340
Not everyone here is grown up man like you are anon, let the babies play with their gamer points and internet credibility.

>>7698170
>its "grown up" to be lazy and not respect accomplishment even if self imposed
How morbidly obese are you sweetie?

>>7679098
having to redo content you've already done isn't true difficulty and only exists because of the shitty arcade business model

if you prefer to be a pleb and abuse savestates, you're allowed to do that. however, most of us have a sense of honor, competitiveness and achievement, which drives us to take on the challenge as originally intended, or close enough to it. that also leads us to scoff at those who claim to have beaten the game while significantly lowering the bar.
it's like playing basketball with a lowered rim. if you like playing that way, fine, but you're not playing properly, and you certainly shouldn't brag about dunking on a lowered rim.

>>7698184
Pretty fit. Don't know why do you consider savestating to be laziness when it's just respecting your free time and not wasting it on outdated gamedesign.

>>7698314
How is the game design outdated?

>>7698314
>self imposed challenge is bad
>trust me I'm /fit/
pressing X

>>7698170
I'm glad someone here gets it.

>>7698184
Self-impose challenges all you want, if it's what you enjoy. I prefer playing things more casually, but you do you. I'm just saying that there isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy games, and that you're not going to get some magical reward from the universe for playing a game in the most hardcore fashion possible.

>>7698160
Nothing about that comparison is a fallacy, it removes any and all risk from the equation but provides the same end result. Yet, one of those will provide you with a simple feeling with no triumph behind it, and the other will feel like an accomplishment because you worked for it.

>>7698332
NOOOO I'M OBESE AS FUCK SO YOU MUST BE TOO
Nice cope.
>>7698325
One can clearly see how gamedesign progressed through years. Some systems were scrapped like limited lives or cover-based shooting in TPS games, some proved to be fun and appealing to players like checkpoints or health regen.

>>7699012
You should visit yourlogicalfallacyis.com someday. There's the world of adult discussions out there for you to explore, my sweet summer child.

>>7699082
logical fallacies are how internet arguments are won

>>7699092
>Logical fallacies are how internet arguments are won
Not necessarily, though.

>>7699082
So you have no counterargument even once a post has been made describing why such a comparison would be made, other than attempting to cling to the idea that describing an idea in a simple to understand manner makes it invalid.

>>7699069
>lazy Zoom zoom thinks hard work is a wast of time
>>NOOOOO HOW DARE YOU ASSUME I'M FAT!!!!

>>7698915
> I'm just saying that there isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy games
Yes, but you didn't actually beat the game if you abuse save states. That's not a matter of "how you enjoy" spending your time.

>you're not going to get some magical reward from the universe
anon anyone can go down a critical path and deconstruct anything to the point that everything is essentially nihilism. I mean Derrida existed.

>>7699127
>Yes, but you didn't actually beat the game if you abuse save states. That's not a matter of "how you enjoy" spending your time.
Why does "beating" a game even matter in the bigger picture? What does it accomplish other than giving yourself a warm, fuzzy feeling of validation?

> anon anyone can go down a critical path and deconstruct anything to the point that everything is essentially nihilism. I mean Derrida existed.
You're not wrong about that. Nihilism is easy, that's why I'm into it.

>>7699176
it's about principles, achieving goals, and respecting the hobby. moreover, half-assing things is a shitty way to go through life, and habits in one area can carry over to others.

>>7699176
Yes I do wonder why someone would want to hold themselves to high enough standards to achieve accomplishments rather than take the lowest road and make excuses every time while receiving no happiness or gained skills from the result.

"it's just a game, it doesn't matter" isn't valid when on a cosmological scale nothing anyone does in their lives matters, but what brings us happiness while living as humans is what we achieve by ourselves, even if it has no greater meaning. You give your life meaning and pave your own enjoyment, the world and records of time don't do it for you. If someone worked hard every day at a job and ignored everything else because it was what "mattered" more, they would die a husk of a human being who had a life that was void of enjoyment.

>>7699176
what does doing anything really matter in the bigger picture? Why not just stop wasting time an hero?

>I'm a nihilist
Then why do you reject those who find any sense of meaning in a world you see has meaningless? If someone 1CC's a game, then how does it hurt you? I'm not a nihilist, but the argument that there is "more valuable" things sorta falls apart when you take the position that everything is essentially meaningless. Why reject ones existentialist pleasure in overcoming a challenge? Moreover if you have never challenge yourself in any meaningful way then how do you know there is no interpersonal value in such an accomplishment? Maybe if you actually tried to complete a game without save states you would have a new found appreciation for why people value the activity.

>>7699092
Because people here are stupid and 90% of discussions consist of "no u" and analogies.
>>7699112
Why should I counter someone's phantasy? You can imagine whatever you want just don't pretend to make a point with it. We can throw analogies from both sides till the end of time and get nowhere with it. Please, post arguments, not your daydreams.

>>7699248
An analogy is not itself used as an argument on its own, but as a tool to help another person understand a stance from a different perspective. It would take an exceptional level of stubbornness to be able to miss the point of trying to draw comparisons, even when they are later spelled out for you.

>>7699242
Dude, people challenge themselves everyday with getting good job or grades, sport achievement, happy family. Why can't they, you know, just lay back and enjoy themselves playing videogames? It's called ENTERTAINMENT for a purpose.

>>7699248
>>7699253
the problem is that autist and fedora tippers don't realize there is limitations to pure reason and not everything in life can boil down to a logical argument. Also a gentle reminder that argument from fallacy is not necessary a refutation of the validity of a conclusion even if said conclusion was arrived at by mistaken premises.

>>7699253
We're discussing videogames not mountain climbing if that's not clear enough. So please state your position from videogame standpoint and not something that you find similar.

>>7699257
Why do you hate people who work hard? I mean you seem to be flip flopping on this issue. You don't need to beat a game to relax. If you want to cheat yourself out of the accomplishment with save states, that's fine. But you still didn't actually beat the game.

You know guys if you blinked during the movie and didn't watch it till the credits end than you didn't legitimately watched a movie. Work hard to be a real MOVIE APPRECIATOR.

>>7699257
There are many, many games made for a relaxing evening that offer no challenge. Why not play one of those, rather than savestating through a difficult title? There is also a key difference in understanding when you have and haven't conquered a challenge. If you choose to go savestate through a tough as nails game and reach the end, if you had a good time somehow through it, that's fine, but you cannot see yourself as an expert on the subject or that you at all cleared the game in any true way.

>>7699279
>>7699289
> no-o play games the way I told you to or else
Oka-a-ay...

>>7699294
You didn't read >>7699289 at all.

>>7699287
Woah! That sounds like A CHALLENGE TO CONQUER!

>>7699279
>Why do you hate people who work hard?
>implying tedium and hardwork are the same

Lol. Look at this doofus, guys.

>>7699289
>rather than savestating through a difficult title?
Mhm... Because I want to? Can you stop me? I doubt it.

<<7699308
>morbidly obese lazy fedora tipping nihilist neck-beard calling others doofus

>>7699314
nobody is stopping you, but you still didn't beat the game. Simple as.

>>7699320
Nah, I did beat it. Oh, what do you say? I didn't? And I say that I did and you can fuck right off. Simple as.

>>7699373
>I BEAT IT RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I can smell the onions.

>>7679098
But I did enjoy it.

>>7699373
You can also say you're a woman, but we all know you will never be one.

>>7679098
Nintendo is the best video game company.

>>7697717
You still die, like in breath of the wild. There will eventually be a time where its impossible to die or lose in video games.

>>7699409
> I can smell the onions
If you're the only person in the room that it must be you.
>>7699458
Rentfree.

>>7699469
Breath of the Wild was the best Zelda game in years.

>>7698160
>l-l-logical fallacy
Those are very big words for someone your age to be using

>>7699474
Okay, David Cage.

>>7698184
You will always be a grown up man

>>7679098

>>7700789
Still didn't beat it, sweaty

>>7699242
> Then why do you reject those who find any sense of meaning in a world you see has meaningless?
I'm interested in nihilism as a concept, but I'm not committed to it 100%.
> If someone 1CC's a game, then how does it hurt you?
It doesn't.
> Why reject ones existentialist pleasure in overcoming a challenge?
Why throw a shitfit when I say that there isn't a right or wrong way to enjoy things? If overcoming a challenge is what you enjoy, then go hard.
> Moreover if you have never challenge yourself in any meaningful way then how do you know there is no interpersonal value in such an accomplishment?
That interpersonal value is a human construct, not an absolute law of nature.
> Maybe if you actually tried to complete a game without save states you would have a new found appreciation for why people value the activity.
I'll be honest, I've never 100%'d a game in my life, and I've only played a few dozen to the end. Now, the majority of those cases were without savestates, because for a long time I bought into the idiotic premise that they are somehow "bad" to use. I have a terrible attention span, so I play games for my own entertainment rather than to try and prove something to people. So yes, my perspective is quite different than from someone like yours.

>>7699257
You're right on the money.

>>7699279
"Work smarter, not harder" is one of my favorite maxims. Yes, I get that personal satisfaction comes from accomplishing a difficult task. I like playing games on harder difficulties sometimes, but I'll use whatever tools I'm provided as I feel like it to gain an advantage.

>>7699289
>If you choose to go savestate through a tough as nails game and reach the end, if you had a good time somehow through it, that's fine
Yes. I agree with this.
>but you cannot see yourself as an expert on the subject or that you at all cleared the game in any true way.
I don't see myself as an expert when I do this, nor do I care about clearing the game in a "true" way.

>>7700789
I say this sums it up well. Video games are glorified toys. Saying that I'm not allowed to enjoy running through a game using cheats or savestates is like saying I can't have a tea party with my GI Joes. Why the fuck does it matter when the ultimate goal is my own personal enjoyment?

you cannot challenge yourself and wager your pride on completing a game legit if you dont have any pride in the first place. simple as.

>>7700812
a bunch of bloviating bullshit to justify bitch nigga tendencies

>I have a terrible attention span
that's not a good thing.

>>7700837
I argue that a game can still put up a challenge even with quicksaves or savestates, because you still have to get past those chokepoints if you want to progress further in the game. Now, if I were to complete a game "legit", then yes, I would feel more personal pride from it, but at the end of the day, that feeling of pride is essentially meaningless in the bigger picture and only serves to provide self-satisfaction.

>>7700859
Maybe I am a "bitch nigga" then. So what?

> that's not a good thing.
Never said having a short attention span was a good thing. It's actually a pain in the ass for me to deal with. But, it's how things are for me.

>>7679098
What if the game has save options like many PS1, n64 and even Snes games? If it's done on the original game and not an emulators save state it's not cheating.

>>7700826
But you can't have a tea party with your GI Joes. Your moms won't even let you have GI Joes.

>>7700898
Way to miss the point.

>>7700903
Beat me to it.

>>7700871
it goes back to what I said here >>7698279
and here >>7699198

>>7700926
>but you're not playing properly
I'll reiterate; playing "properly" doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. But, I know you'll keep prattling on about it, so whatever.
>it's about principles, achieving goals, and respecting the hobby. moreover, half-assing things is a shitty way to go through life, and habits in one area can carry over to others.
Do you really think I care about trying to achieve some sort of meritocratic ideal? I most likely wouldn't be arguing with anonymous strangers who aren't interested in my opinions at 3:00 AM on a weekday if I did.

- I've completed Battletoads with savestates.
- B-but you didn't beat it...
- Yeah I did and had a lot of fun, that game is awesome.
- B-but you must suffer through the g-game to b-beat it... L-like if you climbing the mountain...
- Analogy isn't an argument sweetheart and savestates made the game far more enjoyable.
- B-but you're playing t-that wrong... I s-said so...
- Woah, anon, please don't cry! We can go and play Mario Party together, my little Super Gamer. :)

>>7700981
>Yeah I did and had a lot of fun, that game is awesome.
Amen. That's the point of gaming right there.

True, and the fact that savestaters get so buttblasted about it shows how much they care (even if they pretend they don't).

>>7700992
> savestaters get so buttblasted
> whole thread of crying antisavestaters
Well-well-well.
>>7700981
>We can go and play Mario Party together, my little Super Gamer. :)
Awww, cute.

>>7700869
>I argue that a game can still put up a challenge even with quicksaves or savestates, because you still have to get past those chokepoints if you want to progress further in the game

There's no risk to those chokepoints, so no challenge. When there's no risk, you just clear the game by beating your head against a wall, not ever by truly getting good at the game. You're a cheater, and a avatarfagging pedarast to boot.

>>7700826
>Video games are glorified toys
Video games are GAMES, and thus have predefined rules.

>>7700994
Nobody is crying, we're just pointing it out. Obviously we care because we talk about it, and we want to talk about games on an even level with other people. You can't do that with people who cheat and who then have a totally different impression of the game.

The fact that savestaters always feel the need to respond despite constantly claiming games are just "toys" or that they don't care obviously shows that they feel the need to be legitimized for their cheating.

>>7701001
>claiming games are just "toys"
I don't think that "toy" here is negative connotation. Like if you collect MLP or transformer figurines. It's still toys but you care about it.

>>7700964
I've said my piece, and you're not going to listen. enjoy commiefornia.

>>7700981
when I took on battletoads, I started off by savestating at checkpoints, especially before the hard sections that require memorization. then I savestated only at the start of each level, then graduated to beating the game fair and square. it was a great way to practice, but I didn't truly get the game under my belt until I achieved the fair, warpless 1cc. in my case, I see it as a more convenient alternative to the warp points, which I think are intended to skip past tedium when practicing higher levels.

>>7700826
having a tea party with GI joes is still playing within the limitations of the figure. cheating is akin to bending the joints past their limits and breaking the toy, leaving a disfigured mess behind you but it's okay youre done playing with it and can move on to next toy.

>>7700996
Taking risks in a video game is for people who feel like they have something to prove to other people. Me, I'll just keep cheating and enjoying myself. It may not be what you enjoy doing, and that's OK.

>>7700998
I've always been a fan of the term "software toys", as coined by Maxis for its products. I played the shit out of those as a kid.

>>7701006
Truth. Toys are fun to play with, and that's how I view video games. I'm 27 and I'm long past the age where I think of toys as "uncool".

>>7701010
>I've said my piece, and you're not going to listen. enjoy commiefornia.
I'm a leaf, but thanks. :^)

>when I took on battletoads, I started off by savestating at checkpoints, especially before the hard sections that require memorization. then I savestated only at the start of each level, then graduated to beating the game fair and square. it was a great way to practice, but I didn't truly get the game under my belt until I achieved the fair, warpless 1cc. in my case, I see it as a more convenient alternative to the warp points, which I think are intended to skip past tedium when practicing higher levels.

That's an awesome use for savestates right there. I like the idea of using them to learn a game so that I can prepare myself for playing without them later on.

>>7701023
I take it you've never seen Toy Story? I argue cheating is akin to taking an existing thing and making something I like with it, like he did with his mutant toys.

>>7701026
*like what Sid did with his mutant toys. Goddamnit. How the hell did I miss that?

>>7701026
>I'm a leaf, but thanks. :^)
not that different, really.

>That's an awesome use for savestates right there. I like the idea of using them to learn a game so that I can prepare myself for playing without them later on.
indeed. I'm not saying you can't use savestates, just that they're training wheels which you should eventually take off if you want to achieve victory. the only thing that's really verboten is savescumming, which to me is savestating rapidly (ie after every jump) which is like brute-forcing your way through the game.

>>7680202
t. Person who cares more about appearing to play retro games rather than actually playing them

>using savestates

>>7700903
Way to miss the point that I nailed it. It being that you're a mentally unstable copehead.

>>7679098
What if you savestate at a password screen because you can't be arsed to write down a 27 letter password?

>>7679523
You do realise that people download "complete" romsets and scour the interwebs for dumps of new games and hacks, just have them sitting on a harddrive never to be played.

>>7701171
>You do realise that people download "complete" romsets and scour the interwebs for dumps of new games and hacks, just have them sitting on a harddrive never to be played.
You do realise that people buy "complete-in-box" games and scour yardsales for collectibles and rare games, just have them sitting on a shelf never to be played.

If you left the game on all night to circumvent the game’s lack of saving, you didn’t beat the game.

>>7701163
Well you'd be missing a crucial part of the Metroid 1 on NES experience, so I'd say that doesn't count.

>>7701273
You think you made a witty post but didn't think very hard about it.

If you don't emulate scrambling to finish the current section to get the password/save point as your mom shouts to turn off the game, you didn't actually beat the game. Simple as

>>7701694
>you didn't finish the game because mom told you to turn it off
this but unironically

>>7701694
Finnish your sentence fag.

I used savestates to beat your favorite /vr/ game and you can't do fucking anything about it

>>7693707
Wrong, casual faggot. The bare minimum for is 1cc. 0 deaths is the first babby step towards doing something respectable.

>>7701518
>the Metroid
Is that like Alex the Kid?

remember when this board was the only escape from caw of dooty and pokemon?

>>7701185
Fucking hell, you can't be this dense, surely?

>>7702926
The baby

Personally i never use Dave states, i préfet to beat games the way it is on the original hardware, however everyone is free to play how they want, but if you brag about beating a game with save states, you're a cuck.

>>7702982
>Dave states

>>7702994
Im on mobile lmfao, i actually read my own post thinking how dumb it is before realizing its my own lmao

>>7702772
I used to believe in 1cc only, until I got into a debate with another anon here, which led me to realize that having 02 credits is just as much an arcade tradition, and should count as a lesser achievement alongside the venerable 1cc.

>>7679098
Depends. If you're just using it in place of a password system for convenience it's fine I guess.

If it's for a lack of battery save system, consider that many retro games did it to save on costs.

>>7679098
Physical copies of pc games are getting hard to find. Especially games that are not in English

>>7703448
anyone whining about 1cc not being you beating the game is the definition of retarded. Unless you fuck up enough times that the game kicks you back to the title screen with no continue option, and you arnt doing obvious shit like cheat codes of some cheat device fuckery, you beat the game the legit way. Difficulty options are another matter and arcade games with infinite retries based on credits is obviously more based on personal decisions of what to shoot for as an achievement.

>>7700837
>>7700869
>>7700996
Remember, Pride and a sack is worth the sack.

transparent plastic gameboy colors just look really boring but I won't complain because them being overrated means the opaque ones are cheaper.

>>7694921
so basically you're saying with savestates you don't LEARN. but this isn't true since it's up too you if you just want to brute force that troublesome part or if you're replaying it to LEARN it without having to do the shit before that which you have already LEARNED. So it depends on the player and also what is this shit, SCHOOL?

also if you used walkthrouhgs / hints you didn't beat the game either. and if you have beaten it once, you can't beat it again, since you know how to beat it and that's cheating, too. thonk about that one!

>>7690843
>>post a comic form a "outdated" dead religion
Tip harder, fat fuck

>>7705063
>doesn't realize wokeness is essentially the new religion of the world weather you like it or not
>thinks christianity (perhaps ironically) is still reliant in any meaningful sense in this same world
>but also thinks savestates is the modern day way to fix "outdated" gamedesign choices because current year
>assumes anon must me a fedora if they point out this contradiction
Peek Midwit

Trans women are not women, but they aren't men either. They're something far greater.

>>7701676
You don’t know anything you’re talking about.

If you didn't huddle up under a blanket in your bedroom at 9pm with the lights off and the volume turned way down because your mom and teenage sister are fighting again and you know one of them is going to want to take her anger out on you but you're safe as long as you stay quiet and invisible, you didn't beat the game.

Visual Novels are just hyped power point presentations.

>>7706278
you will never be a woman

>>7679359
Yes. Earthbound, for example.
The save state and death system is broken.

Pokemon was never good. Maybe a product of it's time, and great for the beginning of mobile gaming. It was dead since Sun/Moon.

I only save state in dragon quest because the casino is unreasonable to do although I did at one point get a giant cash out on a real console. I know it's possible but you gotta spend 8 hours just sitting and resetting your console. Fuck that. Just press a button and get your reward in thirty minutes lol.

>>7679523
Based. And most games don't suffer any difference from any problem when emulated.
It's not even like everyone had the same TV to begin with.

>>7680202
Sure, i wanna play an old japanese game now, let me buy the original console, a CRT TV, and this one particular game on Ebay, only to find out it's shit.

>>7706306
Save states just make you unable to learn how to use the games own mechanics against it

>>7706326
Emulation fags, like 95% of them, think they are so superior cause they "just play the game" when in reality they download a whole console library and play most games for less then 5min and then move onto the next console to emulate. Coomlecting is one thing, but at least someone focusing on original hardware and games is going to be more picky about what they play and get their full money worth out of it.

>>7706336
Do research first fag. Its not a waste if you are deep into the hobby.

>>7706336
Zoomies have gotten so stupid they don't even know about youtube? Damn! It used to be your God.

>>7679638
betabux

>>7706491
This is the thing, they complain about ,"collector fags" yet do exactly the same by endlessly downloading files that they're never going to use.

>>7707987
Downloading roms doesn't drive up prices or deprive anyone else of the game.

>>7708010

>>7708010
Yes, because no one ever downloads a game that they could just go out and buy for less than $5.

>>7679098
I use save states in game's designated save rooms or points, if I fuck up I want to retry as soon as possible and nigga if you boot me back to main menu and make me sit through a million loading screens I ain't waiting for that shit