/vr/ - Retro Games

I have no idea what you're talking about, but the rf/coax one actually looks better than the composite one. And wow RGB looks shitty.

I'm glad you posted that. I'm about to make a page on the retro consoles wiki about different video signals and I was looking for a quality comparison.

Does anyone know what the umbrella term for composite, RGB, s-video, RF, etc. is? Would it be video signals, or video connectors, or what?

>>766001
output wiggywops

>>765972
3D digital comb filters, as well as digital de-noising algorithms, are cheap these days. As long as the picture isn't moving, you'll get a lot clearer picture than on an old analog set. Of course, as soon as it starts moving, you'll notice how horrible the deinterlacing is.

>>766001
There really isn't an "official" one. Something like video output or video signal would work.

>>765995
Wait, now I realized what you're talking about. I haven't hooked up a console by rf/coax in forever.

>>765972
>mfw RF switch for my SNES on my samsung HDTV and it looks perfectly fine
I seriously don't get what the tube-tv autists are going on about all the time

>>766001
I'd go with "Video Output"

>>766036
>filename
I made a similar joke when I first put together my FFIX comparison.

>>766252

Wouldn't mind seeing a FFIX comparison. Can you post it?

>>766261
The only actual picture I have put together is of the title screen.

I do have some single shots of the menu's and shit.

I plan to do some in battle comparisons, but I'm not taking any new pictures until I've organized my PVM folder.

Linked is Composite, S-Video, and Component(respectively)all on a 20M2MDU, and pic related is from the PS3 over HDMI.

/hr/ is being a bitch and it took 8 tries for this to upload correctly
>>>/hr/1834263
And incase it won't let you access the thread:
http://images.4chan.org/hr/src/1370402447748.jpg

>>766327

interesting. Thank you.

>>766327
>I plan to do some in battle comparisons, but I'm not taking any new pictures until I've organized my PVM folder.

I would definitely like to see some off the PVM if that isn't too much trouble just to see how it compares to a television.

Conversely, I have this I made back in January. Standard 2006 tube TV, but the difference is still very noticeable, especially on text.

>>766380
>especially on text.
That's what I was focused on when I took these pictures.

Considering this is from a PS2, I'm curious if I should have texture filtering on or off for these pictures.

Composite

S-Video

>>766401
Component

2 pictures for this, because the saturation on one of them is a bit off, but shows the text off better.

>>766423

>>766401
I recently went back and played FFXI on my PS2. I tried all three cables I own (composite, S-video, component) on both a VERY VERY VERY nice flat CRT from the end of the CRT era, and my current very nice LCD. I found that I preferred the S-video cable on the LCD over any of the other combinations.

The Composite looked like crap on both, the Component looked great on the CRT, but made everything look like it was emulated with no filters on the LCD (if you've ever emulated a PS1 game, you know what I'm talking about.) However, the S-video on the LCD looked better than the component on the CRT, without looking too damn pixelated. And I actually really enjoy the visable dot matrix as opposed to visible scan lines/pixels. (S-video on an LCD leaves little white dots in formations of squares between pixels, and looks great.)

>>766429
FFIX even.

>>766036
>>766380
I added these to the wiki page:
http://retroconsoles.wikia.com/wiki/Video_Signals
I decided to go with "video signals" but "video outputs" will be a redirect.

>>766327
Which row is which signal in that picture?

>>766429
Dot matrix isn't the result of S-Video directly, but rather a lazy implementation of S-Video. It's supposed to look more like an "emulator."
http://www.micro-64.com/features/svideo.shtml

>>766429
I guess it's all up to personal taste, but I don't get how S-Video wouldn't come out pixilated, considering it has nearly the same sharpness as component, just not as vibrant colors.

What about component on the LCD?

>>766472
The /hr/ comparison?
Top Row is composite, middle is S-Video, and bottom is component.

>http://retroconsoles.wikia.com/wiki/Video_Signals
>Composite
>It is transmitted using an RCA cable
SCART is also capable of carrying composite video, RCA is just a very common standard here in the states. It's also known as CVBS(Color, Video, Blanking, and Sync).


Composite

>>766504
S-Video

>>766510
I will say that the S-Video picture came out rather bloom-y in comparison to what it looks like in person; You can still see the quality jump from composite though.

Component

I don't have an LCD comparison for either of these, as I don't plan on playing all the way through FFIX on my PS3 just for a photo op.

>>766504
I basically copypasta'd what you said to fix the composite section. Wikia just started doing maintenance, so I'll have to wait to upload that picture from /hr/.

Good S-Video is on top. Bad S-Video is on bottom. A bad S-Video cable is when you have a cable that also has composite on it, so the composite signal is sent to both the composite and S-Video, resulting in the checkerboard effect.

>>766528
>that bottom pic

Ah, that's exactly what I get using my cheapo composite/s-video multi-system cable. So that's what causes it.

>>766528
Where does one get good Nintendo Multi Out S-video cables?

>>766553
I have a Monster S-video cable for the GameCube that works pretty well.

>>766553
As far i know, nowhere.

All S-video cables which also have composite plugs suck because the manufacturers are lazy.

I have bought about 6 from different sellers and they were all wired wrong.

I ended up just getting one without the composite plug and it works perfectly.

>>766528
I don't believe all multi-cables are guilty of that(mine doesn't seem to. from the looks of it at least), but it's not surprised to see that.

I've also just realized how terrible most of my original photos of my PVM's screen are; I got about 5 usable quality MMX shotsfrom MMX Collection out of 30 or so. I'm gonna have to take better one eventually, straight from the SNES.

>>766529
That works for me.I actually have an 85MB PNG copy of that picture up on mediafire. Not sure why I though did that though.

>>766553
>>766567
If you have a good S-Video cable, you can break it open to add a composite plug onto it. This only works if the S-Video is good in the first place, you can't "fix" a bad cable to turn good.

>>766573
Not all multi cables do that, but it's done in cheap cables because of how the wiring works. It's possible to do proper S-Video and composite, but most manufacturers probably don't bother.

>>766580
I really won't have to worry about S-Video for much longer; I'm going to be picking up some SCART cables and a BNC breakout cable for it soon. Once that's done, the only console I have that'll be stuck with it will be the Gamecube since I don't see myself finding any component cables for it without paying an arm and a leg.

How about an examples of a bad signal or improper syncing?

>>766613
Is my example, just so people know for that wiki.

It's like what happens if you don't properly ground, you'll get some wobbly ass picture that can potentially damage the screen.

>>766630
Hue

I was just about to comment on that.

You trying to do some soft15khz or something?

>>766634
Yea, just no composite sync combiner yet.

Working on a board- just waiting for the ic.

I just wish vhold actual held the picture, instead of allowing voltages to change the rolling speed of the picture.

I've known for a while that the Sony UD board from their earliest digital TVs will convert DVI to YPbPr component with minimal effort. I've got one in the mail and will report on how well it works with a 15KHz DVI output into a CRT television's component inputs.

>>766641
>early digital tvs

Year wise?

>>766651
2002 or so, I think. The first Sony RPTVs to have DVI inputs did so via a cheap hack - they've got one of the component inputs wired to a separate board containing a DVI->component decoder chip. You can buy this board, power it up separately, and use it as a makeshift converter. It doesn't do scan conversion or anything - just turns the DVI signal into analog component at its existing timings. It was only intended for 480p and above, obviously, but I want to try it out at 15KHz as an easy way to get from my video card to a component TV. If it doesn't work, I'll just toggle it over to RGB mode and use it to add a digital input to my FW900.

>>766660
>FW900

>>766567
>I ended up just getting one without the composite plug and it works perfectly.
That makes sense. From what I've heard it's the fact that the composite and the S-Video use the same pin on the connector that cause that weird texture.

>>766713
>From what I've heard it's the fact that the composite and the S-Video use the same pin on the connector that cause that weird texture.
Taking the composite signal and using it as the luma (Y) signal in an s-video connection (Y/C) will cause the chroma signal to show up as brightness variation. Some TVs detect this and remove it - you don't get the increased luma resolution, though. (You just avoid spurious chroma signals getting generated by bad luma patterns, as the chroma signal (C) is pure.)

>>766604
Cheapest way I found is get a D-terminal cable and get a D-terminal to Component adapter. D-terminal is only used in Japan,and there is a GCN D-terminal cable that's cheaper than the component cable. A converter is cheap since it's just a breakout cable, there's no conversion.

>>766818
Would it be possible to link some info on this; Be it the cheaper cable and/or a site detailing this?

I was under the assumption that the first party component cable was the only way to get a component(or RGB if you feel like fiddling with the cable)signal out of an NTSC Gamecube, due to it having the DAC rather than the console.

Probably one of the only times to be jealous of the PAL version of a system,(no offense).

>>766972
In Japan, there exists a connection called D端子, or D-terminal. D-terminal carries pretty much the same signal as component, just in a different port. Just as there was an official Gamecube component cable, Nintendo also made an official Gamecube D-terminal cable, only in Japan. A D-terminal to component breakout cable costs like $10-20. I thought D-terminal cables were cheaper than component, but it seems they are about the same price unfortunately(I thought I saw a D terminal cable for ¥5000). But it's just another alternative that could possibly save some price if there's ever a good deal.

>>767009
>That one japanese guy trying to get $440 for one

>>766972
>Probably one of the only times to be jealous of the PAL version of a system
No need to be jealous there. We got a nice RGB signal (with official cables or 'fixed' third parties) but Nintendo forced devs to pull 480p support from EU releases. You can force some on a chipped machine but it's hit and miss at best.

>>766236
HDTV=no Duck Hunt

/thread

>>766493
It's actually chroma crawl that causes a checkerboard pattern on the screen. Caused by a poorly-shielded S-video cable.

I'm rather POed that neither of my HDTVs has S-video