/vr/ - Retro Games

Too bad you don't live in glorious euroland where every TV has RGB input!

Why the FUCK did these not catch on elsewhere?

>>754929
I'd prefer my games to be the correct speed.

No and this would be a better question for /g/ anyway

>>754790
Unfortunately, the best option is to get a CRT that supports BNC cables and convert the SCART signal with a cable like this plus a male>female scart adapter.

>>754995
SCART has nothing to do with 50hz or 60hz. I use SCART RGB cables on all my NTSC consoles as well.

>>754929
>Too bad you don't live in glorious euroland where every TV has RGB input!

>mfw Nintendo 64 can't do RGB SCART out
>mfw it can't do correct S-Video without a modified cable.
>mfw official Wii SCART can't do RGB out either

Fucking nintendo.

>>755074
>mfw it can't do correct S-Video without a modified cable

Wait what?

>>755074

If only SCART had spread outside Europe, all systems would have RGB out and we would all enjoy our games in perfect color quality.

>>755105
If you use an official N64 S-Video cable on a PAL system, you'll get a saturated and overly bright image, since the system doesn't actually output an image suitable for S-Video. This can be fixed by adding a resistor internally. Fortunately, this can be done inside the cable.

You can also add back in RGB support on a PAL system. But the work behind that is insane.

>>755159

Ah, it's only a PAL thing.

>>755015
This guy is wrong. TV or monitor is tube and chassis aka motherboard. With an arcade chassis hooked to any TV tube you have an RGB monitor.

http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=43034&sid=52206d026e5862be61937243de8cf8f6

>>755259
Lag

>>755027
I was referring to him living in euroland, which is where most scart tv's are and they are limited to pal.

>>755259
How does this look even remotely good? The background is smudged as fuck. Not to mention the inevitable input lag.

>>755424
>and they are limited to pal.

They are not. Most are multistandard.

>>755424
>>755440

Besides, RGB is neither PAL nor NTSC

Lol, Ryu was born in 1964, he's 49 now.

>>755454
PAL consoles run at 50hz whether they are through RGB or not.

>>755074
>>755159
I have both s-video and RGB scart cables, and they work fine on my n64 and gamecube, though gamecube doesnt work with s-video, but n64 is fine.

Unsure about wii but if I remember correcly, someone said it works.

>>755454
You don't have to worry about PAL/NTSC encoding, but there's still scan frequency and resolution to consider.

Is this going to be the new CRT thread?

Even though I have a PVM, and the "hipster" approach will still yield ~5% better results than what I am about to recommend, what I'm about to say is (IMHO) the best possible CRT experience a typical retro gamer can get without putting nerd time/money into it

>Frequent thrift stores and find a 2000+ crt in the size you want that has component (Y/Pb/Pr) inputs. ($1-$20)
>Buy component cables for your Wii ($5-$20)
>Play your retro games through the Wii on virtual console or with emulators that support accurate resolutions over component
>Later, if you want to step up your authenticity buy pic related. ($50)
>Buy RGB SCART cables for your respective systems ($5-$30)
>PROFIT (in terms of enjoyment, not in superiority because we RGB nerds will still have slightly superior picture and versatility than you)

We can get into brands if you want. Trons have aperture grilles which most of us agree produce the sharpest picture but there are lots of great brands and you might prefer a Toshiba or a Samsung or even an RCA

>>756839
>in the size you want that has component (Y/Pb/Pr) inputs. ($1-$20)
Going to add to this;

If you plan to play anything 5th gen and back on the TV or output 240p from the Wii, be sure not to buy an ED/HD CRT; They're terrible with handling 240p signals.

>>756839
>Frequent thrift stores and find a 2000+ crt in the size you want that has component (Y/Pb/Pr) inputs. ($1-$20)

I've been looking for almost a year and havent found anything with Y/Pb/Pr inputs that was under 27"

>>756672
dat wire in front of the television

>>756872
Good addition, Dash. They always try to force everything lower than 480 into 480 using the same kind of conversion that LCDs use and then trying to display that on a CRT is just a mess.

>tfw your TV only has an RF inputs.

>>756839
>converter
Lossy scaled laggy garbage need to spend hundreds for a true transcoder

>we RGB nerds
Post proof right now as you lord over me or else this is me lording over you

>>756883
Yeah they're out there but there's a combination of factors at work including lower production and people not being as motivated to get rid of them since they don't take up such an obnoxious amount of space (cube/square law)

You might be better off trying to find a CRT VGA monitor that is capable of syncing down in the 15-30khz range. I know these exist but I haven't really looked into what models are capable of doing it although I know some are.

Resist the urge to buy "scalers" or "upconverters" that offer universal compatibility because they just do the same thing internally that your hdtv does and introduce lag/screw up the picture. What you want to strive for is to find a crt that has native compatibility with the signal you want to use.

>>756909
You need to learn the difference between a transcoder and a converter and this isn't /b/ I don't feel the need to go snap a buncg of timestamped pics of my cut apart scart cables and bnc to rca adapters and inside my jamna cabinets just to get you to listen to what I'm telling you. I don't even really care if you take my good advice or not. I posted it for people who want to know the best cost/benefit approach to retro crts.

That particular SCART to YUV transcoder is a real gem.

inb4 xrgb marketing

>>756872
Seconding this. I have a Sony XS955, which is one of the best HD CRT lines ever made (only the XBR960 edges it out), and it BLOWS for retro consoles below the Dreamcast. Especially for the NES and SNES, which for some reason get occasional screen tearing. I really do not recommend one unless you want a TV that displays true 480p for 6th gen consoles.

>>756928
They're called multi-sync monitors.

I know NEC made several.

>syncing down in the 15-30khz range

15.6khz if you want to use it for retro consoles and some arcade boards.

~24khz for other arcade boards

31.2khz for PC, and newer consoles(PS3/360/WiiU). Some newer arcade games also sync at this to my knowledge, but then again, they're just running on modified PCs anyway.

>>756909
>>756949
While I haven't used that converter(or any for that matter) myself, I have seen it recommended before, so there's that.

>>756956
I've actually been planning to pick up something in that range specifically for my PS2, Wii(actual Wii games only)and possibly GC games.
Saw one for $70 at a Salvation Army a few weeks ago, but I'm completely broke.

>>756969
>that particular scart to yuv adapter
I forgot to mention that adapter will NOT work on most LCD etc HDTVs it's mainly for SD CRTs

There really isnt any need for anything other than composite.

It will look 1000 times better than an LCD anyway, and that's how most people would have played the consoles back in the 80's and 90's since S-video and component weren't invented/common.

>>756839
>mfw I finally got 15khz to work and now am waiting for a 9250 for glorious emulation playback
>mfw 4890 later after testing and further setup on my main machine

csync shouldn't have exist, I don't know what compelled anyone to put thought into such an abomination.

>>757012
lol yes I agree. I have all my resistors and capacitors and my lm1881 but I'm procrastinating putting it all together because of how easy it is to just emulate accurate resolutions over YUV with the Wii.

>>755454
>>756630
Nigga just got told.

So I picked up a sony pvm-1350 a little while ago and finally got around to rigging my genesis1/SMS to output RGB. I threw Sonic3 in to check out this shadow thing I'd heard about.

And indeed composite has the shadow, but RGB looks like the bottom pic. Now, would it still look like this if I used a Scart adaptor (currently I'm just using a busted Din8 wired to RCA cables)? Or is this just the tradeoff for a sharper picture?

>>760916
crispy

>>754929
>Why the FUCK did these not catch on elsewhere?
They weren't necessary. To make a console work all throughout Europe:
1. TV RF is out, because they use different channel allotments
2. Any kind of modulated video+sound won't work because they all use different sound modulations and subcarriers
3. Even baseband CVBS isn't guaranteed to work because of the different color encodings (PAL vs SECAM)

The only commonality in Europe was the 625/50i timing. This necessitated plain RGB video with separate sound.

In the US, we all use NTSC. Composite 525/60i NTSC video and sound on "channel 3" works everywhere.

>>760916
Did you get it here?

>>760946
The monitor? Yeah, found it at a flea market.

>>755363
He's pulling a signal right off the video chip and using custom hardware to turn it into a DVI-compatible format. No lag except what the monitor introduces (and yes, you can get CRT sets with 0-lag DVI).

>>756839
Component video has the same bandwidth as RGB video over identical cables. Neither involves any kind of modulation. It's a strictly linear transformation, and bargain-basement video amp ICs ($8 or $9 per unit) have enough bandwidth to handle this transformation at around 2560x1600@60 without noticeable loss.

>>756909
If you're interested in hooking RGB equipment up to a YPbPr (or Y/C, or composite) set, JROK has encoders for around $80 that take an arcade-style (adjustable) RGB signal and give you component/s-video/composite outputs. Available in NTSC and PAL flavo(u)rs.

>>757012
Sync separator and combiner circuits are cheap to build, and you can still have a relatively powerful GPU behind it.

Speaking of which, why exactly do people keep talking about all these strange specialty video cards? My Powercolor HD5850 outputs 15KHz just fine.

>Hurr durr 50Hz PAL
It would take even a monkey with a soldering iron less than 30 minutes to 60Hz mod a Master System, SNES, or Mega Drive. PS1 and Saturn only marginally more complicated. Dreamcast outputs standard VGA. Any Euro who's playing games in anything but 60Hz RGB doesn't care and doesn't deserve vidya.

The only consoles I can think of that aren't easy to get 60Hz out of are the original NES, something solved by most Famiclones, and the N64. Since the Euro N64 is absolute fucking garbage anyway you'd have to be insane to own on in the first place, though.

The real question isn't whether it's possible, the real question is whether or not it's worth the time, effort, and money, when you can just get a better, bigger, more advanced CRT for cheap.

>>760916
What, the dithering? It's supposed to look like that. Composite would warp it into a somewhat transparent looking image at the cost of being ridiculously blurry for everything else (And the rainbow banding common on model 1 units)

I'd take RGB with more noticeable dithering any day.

>>754790
>Does anyone know if it is possible to add S-video or RGB inputs to CRT TV's that only have composite?

Don't know. But just buy a better tv. Most good CRT tvs should have s-video at least.

>>761197
Genesis didn't have opacity that was a SNES "Mode 7" trick (dem boos) so those "dashed" boxes that look transparent over composite were likely a programming trick to simulate it.

>>761247
>>761015

As i said in the OP, i've been looking for ages but havent found any TV's with S-video and composite that are 21"

According to these it is possible.

http://www.villagebbs.com/forum/index.php?topic=16460.0

http://web.archive.org/web/20100530093358/http://133fsb.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/adding-an-rgb-input-to-a-cheap-generic-ntsc-tv/

http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/adding-rgb-input-to-sony-trinitron-40649-.htm

>>761812
20" is like standard size for PVMs though.

>>761948
And if i could get a PVM i would, but the only ones that i can find are too far away and the people want $200 for 14" ones.

I've been looking for nearly 2 years.

>>761948
8" 14" and 20"

They're also expensive and hard to come by locally for most people.

>>761956
I had a Toshiba "Blackstripe" TV that was about 20" and had YPbPr on it but lightning put some black lines on it and I threw it away. Replaced it with a newer Toshiba that wasn't nearly as good.

>>761991
Upon further research it was part of the FST series. It was a good TV but my PVM is definitely a whole different level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEGyTHdm-lY

>>761961
If you're going to forget 5" you should leave out your trip so as not to permanently embarrass yourself.

>>762026
I was talking mainly about common models with RGB, and that are often used for retro vidya.

Playing on a 8" screen would be tolerable, 5" would be a bit ridiculous; At least in my opinion.

>>762026
Hah!

Yeah and some are actually 19" plus they come in 26 and 32 and 36 for sure. I've heard even 40.

>>762046
See above. Also, the models that are advertised as 20" actually use 19"(diagonal) tubes if you want to get technical.

>>761956
Where do you live, Dude? I'll look at your Craigslist for you and check your area for eBay auctions.

>>762132
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_fspt=1&_sadis=25&_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_AllListings=on&_fpos=2259&_nkw=tv&_pgn=3&_skc=100&rt=nc


http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-tuggerawong-central-coast-nsw/tv/k0l3002435r20

>>762151
Australia? You should be able to get SCART there

>>762176
SCART didn't really catch on in Australia.
People are still using composite to hook up Blu-Ray players. There are afew TVs floating around that do have SCART though.

>>762176
While there some TV's here that use scart, they are still pretty rare.

Only some larger TEAC, Bang and olufsen and Orion TV's had scart inputs.

>>762203
>>762197
That sucks. It's like you guys are living in some weird limbo.

>>762214
At least they don't use SECAM.

>>754790
not on-topic but does that screenshot say Ryu was born in 1939?

>>760994
>Speaking of which, why exactly do people keep talking about all these strange specialty video cards? My Powercolor HD5850 outputs 15KHz just fine.

Because of windows drivers, and windows limitations.

Don't tell me your on linux/modifying the card- although if you are (or aren't) I'm interested in what you're doing.

But the reason you might be hearing about the 4XXX series is because it's the last card where the primary windows drivers (and linux maybe) had a check on it that prevents extremely low resolutions- but that might be circumvented with a dongle that prevents outputting EDID info.

>>754790
Not without way more work than it's worth, if it's possible at all. TVs are cheap enough now, just get one with S-video. Euro if you want SCART.

>>763129
sorry, last card that didn't have a check on it

>>762298
It's either 1839 or 1939, he's too old any how.

>>760916
That's what you get for listening to morons.
Old games: S-Video > Composite > RGB
DVD/Video: RGB > S-Video > Composite
RGB is the sharpest and clearest you can get, you don't want that for old games. You want clear but not too clear, needs to blend. Most games use that fact to blend colors and shit.

>>763152
You're a fucking idiot. He's only going to run into that ersatz opacity in Genesis games and even then only rarely. What he needs to do is sit further than 4 inches away from the screen and his EYES will do the blending.

>>763152
Here's a VGA DOS game, scaled and blurred to look how it did on the original hardware, using the exact same dithered fake transparency as Genesis games. This proves that dithering isn't definitely supposed to be blurred, and RGB is in fact the best.

>>763519
This shit is as bad as "the sign is unreadable".
Comparing a DOS game to a Genesis game doesn't "prove" anything no matter how many times you post it

>>763140
Reading through the links posted here>>761828

It is just a matter or soldering wires onto the RGB inputs on a chip, adding a few capacitors and resistors then connecting it to a SCART connector and a on/off switch.

I found the service manual for the TV i'm getting (which sadly only has mono audio) and it looks like i'm in luck as the main IC has both RGB and S-video capabilities.

>>763550
How is the art style and technique any different from a (Western) Genesis game?

FUCK. ME.
everyone here sells CRT for like... at least 50$, they aren't in the best condition and they want ME to go get them.
for christ sake, I just want to emulate.
guess I'll have to stick with the ultra small Triniton I have.

>>764657
On craiglist?

Wanna list some?

So I've had a Commodore 1702 monitor for some time and it was working fine, but the other day I was using N64 on it for the first time and there was some swirling and tearing, now when I play NES and SNES there is occasional tearing, what the fuck is this?

>>763868
External audio is the way to go, anyway.
I've got all of my console's audio running right into my stereo system.

Turns out the french version of this TV which has SCART RGB inputs has a neat feature, when using a console which outputs 480i like the PS2, the TV has a de-interlace mode which adds scanlines.

>>766532
That's a very sexy phosphor structure.

>>756872
KyaDash: What color component cables do you have hooked up to which RGB/Component ins on your PVM? Did you have to switch your Wii into a different video mode before you connected it?

>>766804
Component cable color scheme:
>Y: Green cable
>Pb: Blue cable
>Pr: Red cable
Wii needs to be set to 480i. Monitor needs to be set to colorstream/color-difference/component/ypbpr.

>>766865
Is that a button on the pvm-20 or under a menu? It says RGB/Component A B and Split on three buttons but it does look like it's trying to display YPbPr through RGB i.e. screen all one color that changes according to how I have the cables in plus obviously no sync so wavy and rolling.

>>766532
Whoa, looks like my old FD Trinitron has something like that, too. Only accessible via the service menu. Seems to have two settings, maybe controlling which pairs of lines it forces to overlap.

>>766890
This picture may be of some help.

Wii and PS2 both do sync on green component. For that, you would want to select Comp-int Sync(Component with Internal Sync). What I have displayed on the screen is what it would look like if you had it set to RGB Internal Sync.

>>766949
For the Wii to display the picture correctly, you will need to go into it's settings and set it to output interlaced video(480i).

This is what it will look like if you feed it a progressive scan signal(480p)

>>766949
>>766958
This is indeed most helpful thanx. If I can get the baby to go back to sleep perhaps I'll be able to post some of my favorite sprites.

>>766963
I'm glad I could be of help.

>sleep
That's probably a good idea.

>>754790
>Weight 68 kg

>>766998
That's nothing compared to those 32" XBR's

Fuckers weigh close to 100kg.

>>767060
He was talking about Ryu.

>>762298
Showa 39, which is 1964. It's jap years

>>767072
well shit.. i'm an idiot.

>>766532
Hmmm, I'll have to see if my PVM can do that to play Megaman 9/10 in pseudo 240p

>>767146
Unless there some crazy way to hack it in, no. 9 and I believe 10 as well both run in 480i exclusively.

>>760916
The Genny's VDP output a pure RGB signal that a separate video encoder chip transforms into a composite or s-video. The Genesis creates a 320x224 image, but a TV signal is (roughly; the number of lines is exact, but the number of horizontal pixels isn't) 640x480 (or 640x240 for 240p). Now of course we could easily create hardware that upscales the video signal to TV resolution, but back then, the primitive method of upscaling used in that video encoder would blur every pixel horizontally, much more so than an NES, SNES, or PC-Engine would.

Many Genesis games (including many ones Sega released themselves, even the original Sonic) exploited this to easily create transparency effects that the Genesis's VDP had no support for: you just make a vertical bar pattern and a region forms that blends between the color of the bars and the color of the background beneath them.

The creators of these games didn't really take into consideration the minuscule fraction of their audience that would modify their consoles to output RGB, so you're stuck with the bars if you do. Personally I think it's worth the trade off on the Genny, even though I can't play NES games without a fake NTSC filter.

We NES now

>>767209
>Shadow mask

Its a pvm look closer

>>754790
I read a blog post a while back from a guy that modified his CRT TV to accept RGB. Apparently there is a separation in the TV between the circuitry that actually drives the electron gun (accepts pure RGB) and the circuitry that converts other signals into RGB that can actually be displayed. IIRC, he noticed that the TV's menus were being output by a separate microcontroller as pure RGB, so he disconnected that signal and inserted his makeshift RGB signal in between, then created a custom cable for his Genesis to connect to that. I don't remember, but I think he basically gave up his ability to display menus to do that.

I'm not an electronics god, but I think it'd be much easier to just buy a TV that takes RGB, or even get a generic 2000s-era TV that takes component and buy an RGB->component converter.

>>767214
At least you're not dealing with a shit display that uses a combo of that and aperture grill.

>>767873
I think I just had the brightness turned up a bit high to get Pitt's brown hair to come out against the black background. I may need to change the contrast. I didn't really mess with that stuff yet.

>>767873
Jesus, that look terrible.

>>767890
I didn't take too many shots but this monitor had some problems with brightness.

Don't know if you guys remember from a few weeks ago, but I saw a PVM at a school and was planning on getting it. Well, I did, and I haven't got to try it out because I'm waiting on BNC adapters, but it turns on, and it's in good condition. I'd like to play some Dreamcast fighters on it, and I've heard that VGA is the way to go, but my 20M2U doesn't have a VGA port. What is the next best video signal type for DC?

And yes, the picture is upside-down. Not intentionally, mind you.

>>770053
S-video cables are pretty easy to come by for Dreamcast, I'd just use that

>>770053
>I'd like to play some Dreamcast fighters on it, and I've heard that VGA is the way to go, but my 20M2U doesn't have a VGA port. What is the next best video signal type for DC?

RGB. It does both 15KHz and 31KHz (VGA) RGB.

>>767873
That's called a "slot mask", or occasionally by the trade name "ChromaClear".

>>770234
This. Also...

>>770053
I remember we told you to steal it. How did you end up getting it?

I would also like to know this. my TV (which i have had since i was little) only has the yellow video input.

>>771338
It's a tron though. Strong composite on a tron is superior to RGB on shit TVs. I mean look at the life this poor sucker is living.
>>767873

>>771338
i
c
u

>>771371
Look at me, Amurrica. Look how Tron is livinnnnn'...for the citayyyy....

>>767167
>>767146
Using a consumer Sony Trinitron TV, most likely new enough to be flat style tube, look for the green button in the center column near the top on the remote. Pressing this button while pointing the remote at your TV will transcode a 480i signal coming in to a 240p display on your TV.

Anyone know how to take a photo of a CRT without getting the rolling black bars going across the screen?

>>771869
Use a better camera. Maybe try different levels of ambient light in the room.

>>754929
>Why the FUCK did these not catch on elsewhere?

Because only the French passed a law that RGB output with SCART plug (Péritel as they called it) must be a standard on every video appliance sold in the country. They did it because at the time literally all consoles and VCRs had different video plugs - RF, DE-9, DIN, RCA, coax, and probably others.

TV makers didn't want to bother making a separate French model on top of separate PAL models, so they just put Scart on all PAL TVs.

>>771890
The French NES even has RGB out

converted from composite

>>771869
Use a DSLR camera and set the shutter speed to match the framerate of the TV.

>>771869
http://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-photograph-an-image-on-a-tv

OP here again.

This is as far as i have gotten. I'm pretty sure this would be the correct wiring, i'm not sure if i would need the +12v pin connected somewhere since i'm sure the fast blanking pin should switch on RGB mode.

I will have to figure out what value caps/resistors i need to get the correct brightness levels and also wire a 4 pin DPDT switch so that i can toggle between RGB and normal AV because with RGB activated there won't be any on screen display.

>>771109

I was torn whether I should take it or not, but I ended up speaking to the teacher. Turns out she wanted someone to get rid of it, it was meant to go to another school in the area but came to her room instead. So after the tech teacher I'm friends with took inventory, he gave it to me. I only wish it came with a remote.

Also, looks like I'm going to order a Dreamcast s-video cable online, since I'm still waiting on those BNC adapters. Whichever one comes first, I'll be sure to take some pictures, but since I'm in Canada, it won't be until the next CRT thread, or maybe the one after that.

>>773010
The Dreamcast VGA adapter works with an RGB breakout cable.

Well well well, what do we have here?

Does anyone know why my CRT doesnt have scanlines?

It is a Sony Trinitron so i'd assume it would use aperture grille, but there arent any scanlines.

Does it have something to do with only using composite instead of RGB?

>>775475
And yes, i know the convergence is off but i'm not confident enough to mess with the magnets.

>>775475
>Expand Image
>Music starts playing in my head
Dat 6 Pak

Is it possibly displaying in 480i? They're not AS apparent when displaying an interlaced signal.

>>775492
The TV is from 1994, did they switch to 480i by then?

>>775494
480i is the resolution they always used(NTSC established at least)

240p was just making use of a quirk in order to get clearer and sharper picture quality.

>>775475
You can't see the scanlines in the dark green areas?

Full-brightness areas can easily bloom out and obscure them.

>>775494
It's a function of the video signal, not the television. 480i has been the standard for broadcast TV since the 1940s, but was rarely used in video games.

>>771906
>With older CRT screens this refresh rate is 24 times per second (on newer screens this rate is faster)
oh god what the fuck am i reading

>>775508
An Arts School degree at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIiePRkHuTw

If i was game enough to muck around inside a CRT i would love to do this.

>>775480
>>775475
Your tron just has a few thousand hours on it. If you want to see the scanlines better turn the brightness and the color down, but you might never find a balance you're happy with.

>>775475
>composite
Shit, I thought you said component. Yes, 90% of your problem is definitely the component video input. Fuck's sake, Man you could at least buy an SVideo cable. The day I got my PV< I dug a Nintendo/Playstation/Xbox/360 one up at my local used games store for $5.

It was their only one and I probably ripped them off plus it doesn't touch the RGB/YPbPr mode

>>775515
This is interesting... I bet if I started hard wiring $20 retro consoles to $20 retro crts I could sell them to hipsters...

>>772396
Is this a more-or-less universal diagram of composite Trinitron PCBs?

>>775515
Upon closer inspection this guy just has the rgb hooked right to the gun and the composite is syncing it without modification. That's dirty but I could perform this mod in like twenty minutes on any tv. I wonder if the composite would sync on everything.

>>775512
KyaDash where do you live right now and what degrees do you hold.

>>776591
You will have to get the service manual for whatever TV you are working on and identify the main video chip then get the datasheet for that chip to see what inputs it can accept.

>>767216
Are you PVMfags RGB modding your NES to get such quality, or is that just through composite?

>>777429
I know that at least one of the tripfags is using a wii or gamecube with animal crossing.

My SDTV now has an HDMI input. Woo!

Looks like I need some decoupling capacitors and proper video termination, though.

Total cost: Around $30
Main item: Sony UD board
Also bought: Some RCA jacks, a barrel-jack for power and a small 5v supply

>>777537
haha, wat.

>>777582
forgot pic

>>777394
Just looked it up.

The datasheet mention YUV input, does that mean i can get component as well as RGB?

>>777556
The DVI input board from some early Sony digital TVs will give you plain old component video out, if you just power it up and plug it in.

Can't seem to get a 240p mode working, though. 480i works fine... might have to run emulators in pixel-double mode and use the force-double-strike mode in the TV.

>>777661
soon

>>777583
>RI
>GI
>BI
>RGBIN
what do you think

>>777697
Are you lucky?

http://docs9.chomikuj.pl/1197915028,PL,0,0,TDA837X.PDF

Does anybody have an experience with Panasonic Tau CRTs? My local Goodwill has one for 10 bucks that looked like this model, although it was around 14ish inches and had component input on the back.

>>777849
I literally just hauled a 27" one of these back from my own goodwill. It's breddy gud except the picture sometimes gets uh, wobbly. It's faint and hard to notice in the thick of playing but it's definitely there.

It DID fall over onto its face with a really fucking loud noise when we were driving it back home so god knows if it's existing damage, damage from that, or just something I could fix somehow

>>777890

Yeah they had a fuzzy Dances with Wolves OK vhs playing on it so it was hard for me to judge it's quality.

>>777849
I wouldnt get anything under 20" unless it was a PVM or had SCART RGB.

>>777537
Are you a wizard. Soft-15 Khz or CRT_Emudriver? PowerStrip? Or phoning it in at 480i?

>>778146
I don't know what any of those are. I just set a 480i mode using RandR. The UD board doesn't like pixel clocks lower than 8MHz or so, so "native" 240p with a roughly-square pixel aspect is out. I can do 640x240p though, if any emulators actually supported horizontally doubling like that. (Or, like I said, I can use the TV's service menu to force 480i into 240p. Sony sets can do that.)

>>777661
We would like pictures of what happened in between beholding the chassis and receiving input from the computer. Did you solder straight to the chips' legs?

>>778156
Also, looking at my picture again, you can actually see the scanlines at 480i... such a shame these sets don't do 480p EDTV.

>>778156
Oh dude let me get links for you, now that you're talking to the TV properly you can output any signal you want.

GroovyArcade liveCD / liveUSB
http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/
http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/wiki/USB_installation

GroovyUME 0.148u2
http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/downloads/list?can=2&q=
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128879.0.html
SwitchRes v0.014 - now integrated with PowerStrip allowing for nVidia support
Monitor types include (this is itself an Option, -monitor)
pal PAL TV - 50 Hz/625 (undesirable)
ntsc NTSC TV - 60 Hz/525 (undesirable)
generic_15 Generic 15.7 kHz (all TVs)
arcade_15 Arcade 15.7 kHz - standard resolution (some TVs)
arcade_15ex Arcade 15.7-16.5 kHz - extended resolution (Sony TVs only [word of Calamity], PVM/BVMs, RGB SCART TVs)
Options include
custom -crt_range 0-9 HfreqMin-HfreqMax, VfreqMin-VfreqMax, HFrontPorch, HSyncPulse, HBackPorch, VfrontPorch, VSyncPulse, VBackPorch, HSyncPol, VSyncPol, ProgressiveLinesMin, ProgressiveLinesMax, InterlacedLinesMin, InterlacedLinesMax
lcd -lcd_range VfreqMin-VfreqMax (only lag inherent to LCD will remain)

ArcadeVGA can boot in 15Khz
http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

CRT_EmuDriver
http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/
When using CRT_EmuDriver, your arcade monitor must be connected to the primary port on the video card.
I don't know if this is always the case, but if your card has two ports, the primary port is usually (but not always) the "bottom" (closest to the motherboard) port.
On newer video cards, the primary port is usually a DVI port. This means that to connect to an arcade monitor, you'll have to use a DVI-to-VGA adapter dongle.

Soft-15KHz / QuickRes / SwitchRes (different one?)
http://files.arianchen.de/?x=soft15khz

PowerStrip
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

>>778158
The board has a nice 11-pin, .100"-pitch connector on the edge which exposes Y/Pb/Pr signals. (Too bad I didn't have a mating connector laying around, and ended up just soldering to the board.) It's how it's supposed to communicate with the TV - older Sony digital projection sets, that is. This is barely a hack.

>>778161
If you wanted that you'd use a VGA monitor. You want lower progressive resolutions. 192p for SMS, 224p for almost everything, 240p for some arcade and NES, you want your oddballs all the way up to 288p.

You also need your refresh rates proper. The whole point is that it doesn't do 480p, that's high frequency. You need that 15 Khz horizontal refresh but the variable vertical. Hardly anything you want to emulate runs at 60.0000000 Hz vertical refresh rate (vsync's aspiration). Your consoles and a lot of arcade games are 60.09 Hz. Some games go as low as 53 Hz even though they're from the US...Mortal Kombat. To play R-Type without it sped up and ruined it needs to be around 55 Hz.

You can output these resolutions. When you do you will have the most accurate and complete rig ever shown on /vr/

>>778172
Shit man what voodoo is that thing doing to your signal? It's like, scaling your perfection. Converting it. Hurting it.

>>778163
Cool, thanks. SwitchRes and the custom MAME builds look like all I need though... I can already set arbitrary timings with the open-source Radeon driver (it's why I don't use FGLRX - it won't even let you disable their flat-panel upscaling anymore).


Do those utilities support doubling/tripling the pixels horizontally-only? It gives an equivalent analog video signal but I need it because the Genesis DVI decoder doesn't appreciate low pixel clocks.

>>778174
>The whole point is that it doesn't do 480p, that's high frequency.
There are plenty of multi-scan sets from NEC and (I think) Toshiba that will do both 480i and 480p natively. It would be nice to have a 32" VGA monitor, that's all. The guy who gave me the idea for this was actually using one with an NEC XM monitor, which (according to legend) does all the way from 15KHz to over 100KHz.

>>778181
No scaling. Just decodes DVI into component.

>>778186
You can only double resolution in Linux, it doesn't work at all in Windows. Check out the GroovyArcade link up there, that will put a custom Linux on a USB so you can test out things like that. Plus it should give you access to custom resolutions right away. There's a tutorial up there too. It will help if you have your ROMs set up for MAME and MESS.

>>778193
Transcodes or decodes? Turning VGA/DVI/HDMI/RGB into component is known to never go right unless you pay the guy who spams this board with his product.

Also, look into the CRT_Emudriver it sounds a lot like the custom Radeon drivers you're using except it's meant for emulation.

>>755259
it's really a shame that ben heck locked his forum up to only people that were already subscribed once he got popular... what's the deal?

>>778193
About those NEC sets, such a small percentage of their monitors, even those with BNC inputs, actually take anything under a 27 Khz signal that it's laughable. Monitors that can go from 15 Khz to 24 Khz to 31 Khz tend to be arcade monitors, and the only one that can do it on the fly was never sold commercially. Sega bought them wholesale to install in their arcade machines.

There's a guy on eBay who lists multiple listings of a "brand new" Sony "GVM" that he claims is like a BVM except multisync. It sounds like the holy grail so is probably nonexistent.

>>778203
It's a digital signal being converted to analog, it can't be a simple transcode

>>778203
It's part of a projection TV, which already had (for the time) very fancy upscaling equipment elsewhere. As part of a model-year refresh, Sony wanted to add a digital input with minimal fuss - they tacked this board onto one of the component input lines of an existing design. It passes the signal cleanly through, with the exact timings intact. I can bump the porches around and see the signal move on the TV.

Also, are there custom drivers I should be using? I never screwed around with it because the mainline drivers worked just fine.

>>755429
I think the smudgyness is just do to a shitty picture

>>778210
>Monitors that can go from 15 Khz to 24 Khz to 31 Khz tend to be arcade monitors, and the only one that can do it on the fly was never sold commercially. Sega bought them wholesale to install in their arcade machines.
...which means that now, you can buy them on the cheap from importers like ExcellentCom and WeLink - if you want a crate of 30.

>>778220
If you have a Radeon then the preferred drivers are CRT_Emudriver. This will turn your Radeon into an ArcadeVGA with the only exception being that it cannot boot natively in 15 Khz.

The forums on http://www.arcadecontrols.com have Calamity, the man behind the Groovy project and the CRT_Emudriver. The project is updated along with MAME and is current.

Soft-15Khz was abandoned in 2007.

>>778238
Heh you can buy a crate of Nanao monitors? I know about 1000 people who will pay $500 apiece for one, thank you for offering to do this.

They stopped making them a decade ago and they're the most coveted arcade monitors btw.

>>778221
>>778203
DVI has the same "timings" as an analog signal, blanking periods included. It was made to carry a signal to a decoder like this, where it could be turned 1:1 into analog for display. It's almost literally just a really fast (200MHz!) DAC.

Oh, and it supports HDCP. Because fuck the police.

>>778248
WeLink has Blast Citys for $600 apiece, with sea freight included to most countries.

>>778252
I built a computer for my uncle recently and he had a high budget. I snagged the DVI-to-component dongle that came with the videocard. Is this thing useless compared to the Bad Larry from the old projection TV?

>>778243
CRT_Emudriver looks like a Windows thing, though.

>>778268
And yet Nanao monitors sent in crates of 30 are nowhere to be found.

Did you mean a full container full of Sega candy cabs? How is one to ascertain the number of hours / screen burn each cab has btw.

>>778269
Best case: it's actually a DVI->Component decoder (very unlikely)

Pretty good case: It takes the analog VGA-compatible RGB signal from a DVI-I port and transcodes it into YPbPr component (also pretty unlikely)

Worst case: It expects the video card to output analog YPbPr instead of analog RGB over the analog portion of the DVI-I plug, when signaled somehow. It will work with the video card it came with.

>>778275
CRT_Emudriver is a Windows thing. GroovyArcade is a standalone LiveUSB/CD bootable image meant to play the Linux build of GroovyUME. GroovyUME is a port of MESS that works with CRT_Emudriver/Powerstrip in Windows and with GroovyArcade in(as) Linux.

>>778286
I bought him the same manufacturer's Radeon, just a better model. Mine's a 4000 but I know it could be different enough. Mine came with a "your video card only" DVI to VGA dongle.

It sounds like jumping two points on my uncle's video card would cause it to output component from certain pins. Shit.

>>778276
They can ship crates of 20 cabinets at a time (they had a $200/ea special on original Astro Citys recently). If you ask them, presumably they can scrap the cabinets and just send you the monitors. They're a Hong Kong exporter that gets outdated Japanese machines in bulk and sells them to South America. You need to e-mail them to really get an idea of what they can do for you. And yes, it's almost all going to be in bulk, because you're putting it on a freight-liner halfway around the world. Neo-Geo.com organizes group buys from them sometimes.

>>778297
The DVI->VGA dongles are pretty universal - the DVI-I plug (most video cards) has an area for an analog VGA signal, for that exact reason. I haven't seen it double as a component output before - but it certainly has enough pins/bandwidth.

>>778297
>>778297
Apparently mine has this

Integrated AMD Xilleon™ HDTV encoder

Provides high quality analog TV output (component/S-video/composite)
Supports SDTV and HDTV resolutions
Underscan and overscan compensation

Is this chip shit? I think I have the S-video dongle from my uncle too.

>>778309
The sure-fire way is to boot up in Linux and start fucking with the xrandr utility. Radeon HD4000 is well-supported by the open-source drivers, and if you can configure the TV output at all, it will be there.

If Radeons have the Xilleon chip, why do people on arcadecontrols pay $140 to convert the Radeon output to component?

>>778327
The world may never know.

It's quite possible that the dedicated "TV encoder" chips don't let you actually configure their video timings, making them shit for emulation or 240p-type hacks in general.

>>771460

>tfw this show is ten years old

I miss him. ;_;

my dream is to play video games on an eidophor

>>778349
>static image on the screen
>240p mode
>all that energy in one spot
>electrostatic oil target ignites
>screen burns

>>778349

>>778336
You think it might only work with the S-Video port that's in between the DVI ports? While the custom resolution hacks only affect the primary DVI port?

>>778364
>>778349
Or hook up one of these with its RGB inputs.

>>778364
>>778349
Or hook up one of these with its RGB inputs.

>>778394
I found a CRT front projector on Craigslist for around $800 a few years ago. It was a Sony model that supported their old Hi-Vision system and would presumably work with 1080i HDTV. The problems are, though:
1. You pretty much need to ceiling-mount it and never touch it because converging them is a pain in the ass
2. It requires such a long throw distance to really work
3. It's a front-projector, so you need a silver screen in a dedicated dark room for good contrast

They're exclusively "home-theater" machines for a reason.

>>778402
Don't you want one that can do over 2000p?

>>777849

I've owned a 34 Inch Tau for near 10 years now. They're pretty decent TVs. The main quirk with mine has always been slow Reds. The only times I ever notice it are on extremely fast pans. Made for some sexy streaky taillights in racing games.

>>777215
It was a joke, relax.

>>777429
It's actually RetroArch on my Wii pushing native resolution over YPbPr but you get a gold star for recognizing that it was higher quality than can naturally be had from an NES. That's why I was so jazzed about it.

>>778629
>RetroArch on my Wii
This needs to be in the OP for every CRT thread, Wii is a godsend for emulation on CRTs. I have a PVM with RGB and Component on the same inputs and it looks damn good.

>>778640
>RetroArch

>he uses a frontend

>>778675
Think for a second;

We're talking about the Wii version, not PC.

>>778394
I just bought an RGB CRT projector for $50 the day before yesterday

>>778640
I covered it pretty early in
>>756839

>>778675
Actually Retroarch (or maybe just the libretro spec) forces emulators to use Vsync implementations that are much improved over the standard wait-for-sync that most emulators use, greatly reduces input lag.

>>778748
It's a pretty great time, I must say.

sorry for the blur, the same guy with the firefox image some post ago, looks damn close to my grandmas tube playing nes games. I should've tried out dragon quest but I'm sure it's not too different from what I got here.

I didn't actually realize it till now, but my grandma got a fresh out of the box 1985 trinitron, like wrapped up and a fresh tube a year ago.

KV-25XBR is the model and it's got a dedicated rgb input, although I'm kinda skeptical about it but I'll give it a try whenever I get the chance to go over, though I've got to mod an actual console instead of emulating over a computer.

What known models of CRT in the US have SCART input? I'm hear the RCA Dimensia has one, but that's all I know of.

>>779061
it's probably easier to get a PVM and a SCART to BNC breakout adapter

>>778675
Whereas you compile each libreto core yourself using your Wii SDK and implement GX resolution tricks yourself for every single core, now its own .dol, by yourself.

Or you "inject" each NES ROM into Virtual Console games, making them take up 17 MB of space each just so you can select them from your Home screen?

Yeah ok.

>>779114
That does sound pretty neat. You could have "featured" games for your pleb tier family and friends who are intimidated by text menus and subdirectories and core swapping and complete romsets.

>>779114
I tried compiling RetroArch but every time I tried to compile another core it wouldn't ever work, aka it wouldn't switch to it. I could never fix this shit out.

>>779061
Well I'll be damned. Looks like I'm adding a keyword to my Craigslist watcher.

>>779207

Iirc, this is the only consumer tube TV in the US with a scart input. Does it use the euro pinout or Japanese pinout?

>>779214

>Iirc, this is the only consumer tube TV in the US with a scart input.

Really? Well I guess that narrows my search...

>>779214
Japanese scart isn't scart. plus I bet the E in that "EIA Port" stands for European

>>779229
Check out this sick retro entertainment center. If I had time I would photoshop retro vidya consoles in there

and cover Hall and Oats

>>779207
I have a feeling the set will live up to its namesake and you'll end up with dementia before finding one locally

>>779313
There are literally none on ebay either active or in their completed auction database but I can just forget it once I add it to my keywords. If and when I'm alerted one popped up I might even have to look up why I wanted it but it wouldn't take me long to figure out.

>check ebay
>3 20" PVM's starting price of 99 cents
>the sellers won't ship them.

Fuck.

>>779495
I got mine for 99 cents plus $34 shipping. The guy had a buy it now on it of like $300 but no reserve so my 99 cent bid canceled his buy it now immediately and nobody bid against me. The addiction length was only 5 days.

I got the feeling the seller wasn't that experienced with Ebay. Even more so when it arrived because he rage mailed a beat up (but functional) version of the same model monitor. It was clearly not the one in the auction photos so I immediately opened a case about it and he just refunded everything to not have to bother with me.

So my PVM was... free!

>>779619
Fuck, so lucky

I just bought a PVM and was wondering how i hook up SCART cables..

I looked on ebay for SCART>BNC or RCA but none have the cable for sync.

>>779791
>>779619
Would $40 be too much to pay for a PV-14N6U?

I can get a Sony PVM 2030 for $40 should I do it?

Is it a good model? or should I just wait for something else?

>>779850
Christ, I bought one of those for like two dollars on Ebay, big and heavy as fuck, then rolled in the back of the car on a tight turn on the way home.
FUCK, it's intact but something must've broke inside of it coz all I got is a blank screen.

>>779850
Hell yes.

>>779845
Those are security monitors, not professional or broadcast quality ones.

Most i'd pay is $20.

>>779868
Will it be good for N64/PS2?

>>779850

If you google the model number and take a look at the back, the RGB input is a weird 25 pin D thing (at the top left of the back panel). There are a few pinout diagrams to show what you need to do, but you would need to make your own cable/find someone to do it, or find some sort of adaptor

>>779887

Further googling lead me to the following, which says it will work with monitors such as the pvm-2030, but then says it's incompatible with sync on green... which is strange as it says SYNC ON GREEN on the back of the pvm-2030
http://www.retrogamingcables.com/sony-pvm-scart-converter.html

>>779893

Apologies for my triple post, but upon further inspection there appears to be a switch to toggle sync on green and c-sync (pic related). So the aforementioned cable should work!