/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7470078
I want to smell Olga's hairy armpits

>>7470078
Fuck out of here, last time I played MGS3 I played and I mean actual gameplay a grand total of 5 minutes in the first hour.

>>7470762
>INCOMING CALL
>Press the Action button to climb the ladders.

>>7470078
mgs2 is a mgs1 remake

>>7470762
13 minutes to be exact (i mean if you skip all the cinematics and codec calls)

>>7470078
Filtered

>Best Level Design
>Best Secrets
>Best Bosses
>Best Story

>Game is bad because I don’t have the patience to sit through a skippable cutscene.

Poor baby, maybe you should play something more your speed.

mgs2 had the best music, masterwork in design

This complaint can be leveled at every MGS game.

>>7470762
but once you're past the tutorial mission, it's gameplay all the way through. Meanwhile MGS2 is like that all game long

>>7470926
>Best Level Design
>Best Secrets
>Best Bosses
>Best Story
wrong in all aspects
>>7470950
this however is undeniable.

My main problems with 3 are:
- I hate that the Boss became the most important and coolest humanbeing to ever exist and every game after 3 is just jacking off to her how cool she is.
- I hate young Ocelot.
- The Cobras are forgettable. The End is a cool fight. Other than that, I prefer Dead Cell over the Cobras.
- needless menu surfing. Snake needs to eat, you need to cure, you need to change camo, you need to take items out of your backbag.
- Para-Medic sucks. She's no Mei Ling.

>>7470841
And MGS1 is an MG:SS remake. It's like pottery.

>>7470078
You got filtered by the game so deep it explains everything to you 24/7. ~
>Dont you know explaining the plot is what makes it so good?
>Dont you know that not being able to play is part of a commentary on kojumbo fans not being able to play metal gear games?

Also, did you know MGS2 is a commentary on how free speech on the internet is more complex than you think? Bet you didnt get that. Or that reality may not be what it seems, no one ever thought of that before either.

>>7471749
Damn what a list of bad opinions

>>7471749
You forgot the following:
>no crouch walking
>only a handful of the camo was useful
>the Shagohod was a joke
>disguise almost as spotty as Hitman 2's
>bad camera on launch
>controls are needlessly cumbersome at times
>only 30 fps until HD remaster
>almost nothing happens in the story in the 2nd act

MGS3 was great, but ever THAT great.

>>7470926
>Best Bosses
Maybe this is true, but I have a soft spot for the simplicity of the bosses in the first MGS. Each MGS game has a few really memorable fights, but every single one of the original MGS' boss fights were unforgettable. They're unforgettable to the point that it often feels like a lot of boss fights later in the series are shallow derivatives of the originals.

>>7471765
Anyone who bitches about the camera is a complete shitter and maybe even retarded. For you see the only people who complained about the camera apon release were the worthless game journos. Seriously, imagine not being able to navigate this game with the original camera and have the nerve to say it's a bad camera, holy fucking balls. Oh what are you gona say bitch? You got spotted by enemies you couldnt see? Thats the cameras fault? Not your own terrible lack of knowing you surroundings? I'm not fucking around you're literally subhuman garbage.

>>7471764
You are free to point out your own views you know.

>>7470841
What a retarded opinion

>>7471793
Is the kult of Kojimbo this easily triggered?

>>7470692
This. So disappointed we never got to see them again later once she'd grown them out again.

>>7471765
>bad camera on launch
Just use first person mode, bro.

>>7472116
Nah, your shit at games. Now shut the fuck up, shitter.

>>7470078
>Sneaking around
>way too many guards around to explore freely
>better take some out so i can roam around peacefully
>literally 20 seconds later: "WHATS TAKING SO LONG FOR YOUR STATUS REPORT?!"
>"OH YOU CHEEKY WONKERS THIS GUY DIDN'T REPLY THE PAST 45 SECONDS SOMETHING MOST BE WRONG I WANT OUR WHOLE UNITE AND THE US AIRFORCE TO CHECK UP ON HIM"

This game is the reason why i can't stop saying nigga

>>7472238
I'm not really shit at MGS3, because MGS3 is really easy. As in easier than most games within the series. But dilate harder.

>>7470950
OMEGA BASED. The Big Shell & Arsenal Gear alert themes are nut-worthy.

>>7472274
The main menu music alone is nut worthy.

MGS2 is infinitely superior to 1 and 3 as a stealth game, which is what the series is.
It had the best level design, the most well designed encounters, and the best enemy AI. All while running at 60fps and being fast paced. It also had the VR Missions in Subsistence which are the ultimate in arcade-y stealth action gameplay.

3 has a lot of cool weird little easter eggs and touches and way better bosses, but the stealth is fucking braindead on all difficulties and the AI and level design is such a monumental step down from 2 it almost feels like they regressed back to the first game. And it runs at like a third of the speed of MGS2. Not even just the framerate, everything from Snake's run speed to the guard's patrol speed is fucking slower. Disappointing.

>>7471765
>no crouch walking
not a great mechanic
>only a handful of the camo was useful
true
>Shagohod was a joke
it's a cool as fuck set piece, that's all it needed to be. It adds a nice climactic action sequence to the end of the game
>disguise almost as spotty as Hitman 2's
the disguise sections are too fucking short for me to really complain about. I always kinda wished Snake found a guard uniform during the prison break sequence though.
>bad camera on launch
the camera was fucking fine, you were expected to sidle up against walls or go into first person to scout your surroundings. The modern camera took a piss easy game and made it even easier, I actually prefer the original camera.
>controls are needlessly cumbersome
The controls are complex but are actually incredibly intuitive when you learn them, same as MGS2 or a complex modern adventure game like Arkham
>only 30 fps until remaster
30 is generous for the PS2 version
>almost nothing happens in the story in the second act
it's a satisfying enough story, fun James Bond pastiche. Just disappointing that after the ambitious and groundbreaking work of art that was MGS2 they played it so safe and went for brainless popcorn entertainment.

>>7472251
The check in guards make the game challenging. Sorry you have to actually think before doing something and you can't just be invisible and score infinite headshots from 2 miles away with no penalties like MGS3 which is babby's first stealth game

>>7472274
>>7470950
There's a lot of great stuff to choose from, just listen to the VR stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw_FJk_DCWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccWGZa9JGS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxpGs1tckwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvdDFx1kmT0
It's a shame Hibino doesn't have a lot more games composed.

>>7472281
It really sets in your about to go into something incredibly big and perception breaking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jw6y7SW3a8

The bad, condescending story and the fact that you wouldn't know which cutscenes to skip for being useless drivel with no other purpose than cringey failed 'mindfuck' attempts are why MGS2 is the worst of the first 3 MGS games. The levels are actually fine, not even the famed underwater escort is really bad. Story can ruin a game if done too poorly and too reliant on gimmicks.

>>7472312
I almost agree with you. I like the stealth in mgs3, its a jungle not a tanker. Though i play mgs2 more, because of its superior enemy ai and level layout. My only gripe is getting conned into thinking you can explore the whole big shell. If i knew how i would design the other half and hack it into the game. Theoretically, you could use substance and remove all the extra content to make enough room for the other side of bigshell. I think it could be done by reusing assets and parts of the skating game/vr/snake tales... But thats a huge undertaking, id be happy if i could figure out how to hack the sword into the starting room of the bigshell. Imagine playing a no kill stealth sword run of mgs2, it would be amazing.

>>7471765
>no crouch walking
You can the 3ds remake, and walk and shoot, but at a loss of good shotgun control and pressure sensitive cover aiming. Its a trade off, sometimes i feel like crouch walking and shooting, other times i want to be the stealth king with binoc/tranq headshots across the map.

>>7470762
>>7470826
That ladder thing is funny as shit the first time. classic kojima

>>7472251
>Be me
>Shoots guard radio
>????
>Profit

>>7470078
Whats the best way of playing MGS2? Having completed MGS1 and MGSV for the first time recently I wanna get into this game now. Got the GOG pc port with the fan patch installed but dont know if thats the best way to play since the controls feel awkward and the audio is too low. Should I just play this on my modded PS2 instead? Would need to get a disc for that but I'll see what I can do

MGS2 is an incredible game. Way ahead of it's time.
>you can shoot out lights
>enemies can spot your shadow
>locational damage on enemies
>search teams will clear rooms to find the player
I could go on and on. Just last night I discovered that enemies will not be alerted by your footprints if you're wearing their uniform as a disguise.

>>7470078
They didn't have time to properly choreograph/animate all the cutscenes, so they swapped over to a bunch of codec calls and hand-waved it with some dumb justification

>>7473138
Do you have a PS3? If so get the MGS Legacy collection and play it on there instead, it's the best way. As for MGS2 it's a bit of a shit show that just gradually falls apart into pseudo-philosophical meandering on the expense of gameplay, plot and your time and effort.

Just play the Snake prologue part and drop it, it goes straight downhill from there. Better yet just drop the game entirely and go straight to MGS3 Subsistance, it's the peak of the franchise.

>>7472312
I enjoy MGS3 relative to the other games from MG1-MGS2 just as a (literal) change of pace, but it's a shame that it ended up dictating the entire series going forward.

>>7473041
>Story can ruin a game if done too poorly and too reliant on gimmicks.
Yes and MGS3 has a bad story.

>>7472327
>not a great mechanic
It's the staple of stealth games. Even non-stealth games like Syphon Filter included it. It was a missed opportunity to be allowed to crouch walk through brushes. And it would have been very useful
>it's a cool as fuck set piece, that's all it needed to be. It adds a nice climactic action sequence to the end of the game
It doesn't excuse how easy the boss fight was. Compared to Metal Gear Rex and Ray it was pathetic.
>the camera was fucking fine, you were expected to sidle up against walls or go into first person to scout your surroundings. The modern camera took a piss easy game and made it even easier, I actually prefer the original camera.
It didn't work for the game, and it made it tedious to constantly stop and switch to first-person mode. It doesn't help that the enemies can sometimes able to spot you, before you could even see them. It didn't make the game frustrating, rather tedious.
>The controls are complex but are actually incredibly intuitive when you learn them, same as MGS2 or a complex modern adventure game like Arkham
It shouldn't be difficult to draw your gun, while holding an enemy as hostage. Splinter Cell managed to pull that off intuitively, whereas it was clunky in MGS3.
>30 is generous for the PS2 version
You got a point there, but it was downgrade from MGS2's 60 fps. But I'll give it a pass, because there's more detail in MGS3's environments.
>it's a satisfying enough story, fun James Bond pastiche. Just disappointing that after the ambitious and groundbreaking work of art that was MGS2 they played it so safe and went for brainless popcorn entertainment.
The story is great, but not without its caveats. It's often referred as having the best MGS story, which I disagree. It's the 2nd best.

>>7472312
>way better bosses

That's debatable. MGS2's bosses were more consistently enjoyable. Whereas MGS3's bosses had higher highs, and lower lows. You had fantastic boss fights like The End, The Boss, Volgin, Ocelot, and The Sorrow (it was neat gimmick boss fight). Then you have lackluster bosses like the Pain, the Fear, the Fury, and the Shagohod.

https://youtu.be/r16JtwVhJDY?list=PLjfUiuTBhl2rWVePGr5PlTBhJxzIwekN6&t=515
Was this character that Snake points a gun towards in the game? I can't remember if he was nor if this scene was in the game at all.

>>7473138
Xbox(series/one included)>PS3>Shield TV>Vita>PS2>Xbox>PC

>>7473712
This scene is just promotional material mostly a joke i think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmu_mdYgYJQ

>>7470078
>even MGS1
You do know 2 introduced the fast-forward button so you wouldn't have to mash through calls, right?

>>7473882
You do know the PC version has a skip button that instantly skips the codec call in MGS1, right?

>>7470078
yeah. It's my least favorite of the Golden Three (MGS1 MGS2 and MGS3) personally. It's just straight up less fun. And yeah the story is very experimental but it's not nearly as emotionally resonent as 1 and 3

>>7472334
the length MGS2 fags go to seriously defend this shitty system is just astounding. I wish i could be this dense

>>7473667
>it's a staple of stealth games
Rather than great mechanic, guess I should have said the crouch walk wouldn't be a good fit for MGS3. Being forced to crawl to be low adds a risk reward element to the stealth, you can go fast and loud or slow and quiet, makes you need to put more thought into your approach. Crouch walk would just be fast and quiet making any other approach worthless.
>It doesn't help that the enemies can sometimes spot you before you could even see them
Yeah, that's the only way those braindead retards would EVER spot you. It punishes impatient players and adds at least a mild threat to the stealth. With the new camera the game is so easy I get Big Boss rating on almost every playthrough.
>It shouldn't be difficult to draw your gun while holding an enemy hostage
It isn't
>more detail in MGS3's environments
I guess, MGS2 had better textures though.
>>7473675
literally the only boss I actually love in MGS2 is Fatman. The RAYs are okay I guess. I love every MGS3 boss except The Pain and Shagohod.

>>7474407
if you want to tranq guards from 3 miles away and run around the map with zero threat to you, play MGS3. Sorry a good mechanic adds challenge to a game.

>>7472312
>MGS2 is infinitely superior to 1 and 3 as a stealth game, which is what the series is.
nigga, MGS 2 stealth "mechanics" are a joke, a more polished version of the pac-man mechanics from the first entry. I mean:
>only out-of-sight as the only factor in being seen
>at the same time, blind as shit enemies
>no noise penalty for running
>every room has plenty of cover to hide
>enemy patrol routes are limited and predictable as shit
the only room that made shit hard for me was the one with the pool. MGS 3 was the first entry in the series that tried having more nuanced stealth mechanics (sound matters finally, visibility is a factor thanks to camo and foliage, better enemy routes). It basically took Kojimbo until late 2004 to have a game competent enough to be compared to Thief and Splinter Cell.
>>7473171
>Way ahead of it's time.
let's see
>you can shoot out lights
thief did it first, and it doesn't matter on MGS 2 because light/darkness isn't a factor
>enemies can spot your shadow
ok
>locational damage on enemies
Goldeneye, Perfect Dark did it first
>search teams will clear rooms to find the player
ok, but gimmicky given its implementation (they would fuck off after 15 seconds, making it a trivial mechanic)
>>7474703
you can do that in 2 and Twin Snakes too

>>7471535
>gameplay all the way through
Do you call camo and health/item menus gameplay?
I like MGS3 but it has about as many cutscenes as 2 and the survival aspects make it way more of an ordeal to play than MGS1 or 2

>>7474726
>only out-of-sight as the only factor in being seen
There are loud floors, gunshot noises, enemies that come in from room entrances as well.
Also all the encounters are masterfully designed around this. Stealth can actually be challenging, especially on higher difficulties where guards patrol at an actual sprinting speed.
>blind as shit enemies
see just fine, especially on higher difficulties.
>no noise penalty for running
There are some loud floors in the game that do alert people. Guards are also much faster and there's less room to maneuver, MGS2 is a fast paced stealth game more about tight execution and risk than patience.
>every room has plenty of cover to hide
yeah, because MGS2 has incredibly dense level design. Packing a lot of stealth into a small space to provide a hand-tailored experience.
>enemy patrol routes are limited and predictable as shit
On Extreme enemies patrol at actual full sprinting speed faster than you can even move, regardless of how simple the patrol is it's challenging to not be seen, especially if multiple enemies have interlinking patrol routes that leave you with no decent chances to hide.

now for the next part of your retarded post
>more nuanced stealth mechanics
every new mechanic introduced to MGS3 made the stealth less challenging
>sound matters
Sure, but now the enemies don't patrol faster on higher difficulties. They fucking stroll at a snail's pace everywhere, you don't need to move fast to catch them.
>visibility is a factor thanks to camo and foliage
Camo is literally pausing the game and picking a pretty suit that matches the colors to be invisible, it's braindead and a bad mechanic made better in MGS4. The foliage makes you practically fucking invisible to most enemies, again making the game easier.
>better enemy routes
L O L

>>7474761
all I see is a mad MGS 2 fanboy who argues that [subjective thing] is objectively the best and disparage every other entry in the series. I can tell you're a /v/ermin from afar, given their love fest with 2 for how BASED AND REDPILLED it is. You don't even like the genre, just 2.

>>7470762
MGS3 and 4 are watching a movie

>>7474765
I love the genre. Played the shit out of Chaos Theory back in the day. Currently really love the new Hitman games despite their overreliance on coins to get shit done.

MGS3 just isn't a good stealth game. The AI is terrible. The level design is terrible. The mechanics are broken as fuck.
The first person lean, the same one that was in MGS2, is completely busted in 3. in MGS2 the lean physically moved your character meaning if you used it to peak around a corner, an enemy could easily see you. In 3 it doesn't move you and you can literally be right in an enemy's face looking him in the eyes and he won't see you. This effectively means literally ANYWHERE in the game that there's an object be it a tree or rubble or stump or wall, you can just become fucking invisible.

>>7474765
not that guy but MGS3 is just too boring and easy to play through. The bosses and action sequences are quite good but the actual "stealth" isn't great and I think that unless you're playing on the higher difficulties it's a complete joke. The camo and health systems are highly irritating - how can you go from the intuitive design of the MGS1/2's inventory to this clunky pause, load, select some settings, unpause, load every time you enter a new area?
I do think this is interesting to see someone argue that MGS has shitty stealth except 3, I would think if you're only into stuff like Thief you would hate the entire series. I suppose 3 can be slow paced and methodical but it wears off on subsequent replays.

>>7474781
oh I'm also going to add, MGS3 Subsistence's camera takes away any tension from the game letting you have way better awareness and kills the purpose of the sonar/etc. If you haven't played the original release with the fixed camera angles or I'm going to write your opinion off immediately.

>>7474785
based and fixed camera pilled

Why are the model and level details scaled down from 2 to 3? There is a significant drop in quality.

>>7474953
consequence of trying to make "outdoor" levels in an engine not quite designed for it
Also was disappointing to go from 60fps to only 30

>>7473751
>>7473138
PC

>>7474726
For such a long blog post, you didnt say much of anything at all and you are wrong, kek. You sound like your stepdad beat the shit out of you and your mother because he was an alcoholic.
>Kojimbo
Ohh, youre a fucking retard, got it

>>7470078

MGS 1 had borderline tank controls.
MGS 3 relied heavily on an immersion breaking camo gimmick.

MGS2 was just perfect, in every single way.

>>7474739
Not that anon, but I'd hardly call the survival aspects an "ordeal". I thought of it more as flavour for the game, plus I enjoyed making Snake a bit too much.

>>7475619
That should read
>I enjoyed making Snake vomit a bit too much.

>>7474761
>There are loud floors,
I wish the game did more with this. MG2 (or maybe Ghost Babel) was the last time the series really integrated different floors and crawling into the stealth well. MGS3 of course has a shitload of crawling, but it's applied pretty differently save for maybe in Groznyj Grad where things are a little tighter and more dense.

One thing that bothers me with MGS3 is that I keep hearing "it's cool, kinda James Bond-y". What exactly is James Bond about MGS3?
The opening song and there are like 2 gadget weapons like the cigars.

>>7474726
>thief did it first
True. My mistake.
>and it doesn't matter on MGS 2 because light/darkness isn't a factor
It actually is. Not as prominent as, say, Splinter Cell but it is a factor is many areas throughout the game.
>Goldeneye, Perfect Dark did it first
Much more detailed and important in MGS2. For example, if you shoot a guard in his hand he won't be able to hold his radio to call for backup.

>>7475673
>What exactly is James Bond about MGS3?
the opening
the Shagohod itself is as James Bond as it gets. A ridiculous supertank with drills instead of treads that uses a runway to launch nukes anywhere in the world? That is exactly the type of dumb shit that MI6 would be dealing with. The chase sequence with it is also very Bond, feels like it could have been lifted straight from one of the Brosnan flicks.
Several pieces of tech come to mind, the floating platforms especially.
The setting which is squarely in the Connery era, which was obviously on purpose.
literally every character that isn't Snake or part of his team is a Bond archetype of some kind, be it EVA being a bond girl. Volgin being the obvious head honcho villain, the Cobras being essentially a team of Oddjobs.
Major Zero is literally ex-MI6 and a heavily classy brit, he is likely directly based off of Bond.
I know this is in -every- Metal Gear Solid, but Snake gets captured and interrogated by the villains. And this is likely only in every Metal Gear Solid because it's in almost every Bond film.

>>7473675
>the Fury
The Fury was thematically bland but a mechanically great revisit to the cat and mouse battle from MGS1.

>>7475673
They give Snake a tuxedo in MGS1 for beating it 3 times on the same file in case you didn't get it already.

>>7476371
>thematically bland

>>7476383
Yeah? What are you implying?

>>7474778
>The level design is terrible
How do you dislike like great places like Groznyj Grad?

>>7476184
None of those things make MGS3 feel more "Bond" to me than MGS1, except the main song.

>>7470078
Devs who insert their vile fetishes in games should be skinned alive and left in the sun to expire.