/vr/ - Retro Games

>b team
>a team
>hMmMmMmMmMmMmMm

It's a common myth that's long been disproven, spread by the usual breed of deluded nintendrone cultists who desperately want the world to believe their shit consoles were ever competitive. Anybody with any shred of reasoning knows the truth.

>>7438975
This is irrelevant.

Why are you shitposting about the graphical capabilities of two 20 year old consoles that aren't sold anymore and are both easily emulated? What do you get out of this?

>>7438967
>>7438979
Only absolute Snoy fanboys think the PS2 had better graphics than the GC or Xbox. It was squarely in last place. The PS2 has nothing that can compare to the graphics of Metroid Prime or Halo.

>>7438975
Notice how it's always the GC that has this issue with "shoddy ports"? Why is that?

>>7438993
>Trying to bring the obviously far more powerful xBox into this
Nice try. But Metroid Prime is easily and massively outperformed by Black on the PS2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcqeLApWi9U

>>7438994
Tons of examples to the contrary. Enter the Dragonfly is an unplayable mess on the PS2 that can't even hit 30fps while on the Gamecube it runs at 60 and has far less bugs. Resident Evil 4 on the PS2 was an absolute embarrassment with graphics that were so downgraded it doesn't even look like the same game.
> REEEEE but muh extra content
Which was backported to the superior Gamecube version and reworked into the Gamecube Slim (Wii) version

>>7438967
>xbox version has slowdown where the ps2 version does not
>ps2 is more powerful than xbox
hmmmmmmm

>>7438967
Left looks like how you imagined the PSX graphics to really be
Right looks like generic garbage and could be mistaken for Syphon Filter

>>7439001
Lol looks like crap. Butt ugly brown and bloom piss filter milsims are a dime a dozen. Also, it ran at 30fps compared to Prime which ran at 60 even on the original Gamecube version.

>>7439016
>Far better lighting
>Far better particles
>Depth of field
>HDR
>"looks like crap"
I will never understand nintendrone delusion.

>>7439016

Back in the day, the only acceptable consoles for a heterosexual adult male to own were Xbox or PS2.

I've never seen anything on GC that looked anywhere near as good as God of war 2 in 480p mode or shadow of the colosus.

>>7439024
> Far better lighting
Excessive bloom does not equal good lighting
> Far better particles
Prime has great visual effects
> Depth of field
> implying this is a good thing
One of the first settings I turn off
> HDR
WTF are you even talking about, HDR wasn't a thing back then. And even if it was, what a horrible game to demo it. Nothing is "dynamic" about the color ranges in brown and bloom piss shooters. It's literally the opposite, like they tried to use the most compressed color palette possible.

>>7438993
>>7439016
This seems to be very common thing for people who believe this myth to say, that simple low-poly, geometrically simple games with static, pre-baked lighting look better than what the PS2 was capable of. But on a technical standpoint, it's not correct. Gamecube games might have subjectively looked good despite being simple, but it doesn't compare to what the PS2 was capable of in terms of rendering polygons, complex lighting, reflections, physics, dynamic animations, etc.

>>7439059
>GOW2
As far as I remember not the most technically impressive game on the PS2 but is held up by it's artstyle

>>7439031
> Playstation
> Heterosexual
LMAO. They don't call it gaystation for nothing. Sony has been the platform of homosexuals since the very start.

>>7439071
He meant HDR lighting.

>>7439031
True. Gamecube was too kiddy, maybe if you're a zoomer it appealed to you but at the time my 10 year old self wanted nothing to do with it.

>>7439080
Homosexuals and Mexicans.

>>7438993

>>7439080

Revisionist zoomer, lmao. Fagcube was always the lunchbox for children. No self-respecting teenager or adult owned one.

>>7439074
>As far as I remember not the most technically impressive game on the PS2 but is held up by it's artstyle
Did we play the same game?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2A_6gZCFNA
It looked like an early PS3 game only it was stuck at 480p.

Just rename /vr/ to /cw/ for Console Wars.
Cause it's 95% of what's posted here these days.

>>7439105
The only revisionist here is you. Gamecube was the boomer console for people who got into Nintendo with their older consoles and stuck with them through the Gamecube era. The Xbox was for tryhard dudebros who wanted an "adult console". The PS2 was for faggots, normies, and children.

>>7439124
Tryhard dudebro? What are you talking about.

>>7439139
Xbox was for the people who wanted to be "pro gamers" and play competitive online multiplayer, hence tryhard.

>>7439124

You wish lmfao, the PS2 was for the vast majority of adults that also had DVD collections to play. The Xbox was for teenagers playing fucking Halo online, the Gamecube was for children playing Zelda and Mario in the living room

>>7439124
How young are you that you have to larp as someone alive in the early 2000s?

>>7439119
No you don't understand, the rules change ruined the board!

>MUH GRAFIX!
Boy I sure am glad 6th gen was added to the board, the influx of tards it invited was much needed.

>>7439163
Correct. It wasn't this bad until the rule change brought in children who only know how to console war.

>>7439168
Nah its better. Now I can actually get vidya threads.

>>7439156
PS2 also had virtually all the JRPGs for its Gen.

>>7439168
>It wasn't this bad
Console wars were around long before and just as stupid and annoying

>>7438993
>Snoy
You clown xboxtranny continue to let yourself known.

>>7438967
>Using direct images from the Xbox version of Sons Of Liberty instead of the PS2 version
troll post confirmed.

>>7439081
He's a zoomer. He has no idea what HDR is.

>>7438975
>>b team
>>a team
>>hMmMmMmMmMmMmMm

S-rank modeler
vs
B-rank modeler

>>7439601
>S-rank modeler
>vs
>B-rank modeler

And, I just want to say. That I remember one of the remedy employees responding to a message on their own Max Payne web forum. they mentioned that they were stunned by the modeling in Metal Gear Solid 2. They couldn't figure out how the enemy guards could put their arms up without the shoulders looking disjointed or showing seems. And discovered that MGS2 uses a lot of model swapping and 'cinematic models'. Max Payne 2 incorporated cinematic models.

>>7438993
Graphics? Yea sure maybe by like twenty percent. But its the obscenely bad image quality on ps2 that i cant stand. The dark tinted blurry look, plus games in 480p actually look worse then in 480i because they lowered the color depth.

>>7439115
Ah yes the dark blurry sterile look plus even less color saturation because the game is in 480p. Yea thats a ps2 game allright

>>7439671
>plus games in 480p actually look worse then in 480i because they lowered the color depth.
Didn't know that. Explains why Shadow of the Colossus looks like trash with progressive scan enabled.

neo /vr/ console wars are hilarious
Everyone argues the hardware between 3 consoles that 90% of people played at 480i
these consoles are cheap as fuck to play backups on, get one and stop bitching about games you never played

>>7439707
There are big graphical differences between them. Gamecube was simply the best which is a fact but every now and then these snoyfans tries to claim otherwise

>>7438979
The reason Burnout 3 never hit the Gamecube is because Criterion couldn't get all of the graphical effects that the PS2 version could pump out working on the system without slowing the framerate to a crawl.

>>7438991
More than you get out of asking this

>>7438967
>The gamecube has better Graphics than the PS2
weak bait 3/10 got me to respond
literally never heard anybody say this

>>7439182
>Newfag cancer
>Vidya
Checks out

>>7438967
>>7438975
>>7438984
>>7438994
>>7439008
>>7439601
>>7439625
>>7438979
>>7438993
>>7439001
>>7439016
>>7439024
>>7439071
>>7439081
>>7439527
>>7439031
>>7439080
>>7439089
>>7439105
>>7439124
>>7439139
>>7439150
>>7439156
>>7439183
>>7439162
>>7439087
>>7439090
>>7439220
>>7439671
>>7439705
>>7439762
>>7438991
>>7439817
>>7439010
>>7439013
>>7439059
>>7439074
>>7439115
>>7439119
>>7439163
>>7439168
>>7439182
>>7439830
>>7439215
>>7439165
>>7439281
>>7439707
>>7439736
>>7439820
sneed

>>7439736
Xbox had the gamecube beat so hard in graphics it isnt even funny

>>7439836
All me btw

>>7439839
Xbox is literally a off the shelf budget PC in a htpc case. Its just laughable to think that it can compete with Gamecubes custom hardware

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twin snakes vs sons of liberty.png (190 KB, 383x392) google yandex iqdb wait
190 KB
Anonymous 02/19/21(Fri)13:48:39 No.7438967>>7438993 >>7439010 >>7439013 >>7439281 >>7439820 >>7439836 (You)

>The gamecube has better Graphics than the PS2
hmmmm....

Anonymous 02/19/21(Fri)13:51:12 No.7438975>>7438984 >>7438994 >>7439601 >>7439836 (You)

>b team
>a team
>hMmMmMmMmMmMmMm

Anonymous 02/19/21(Fri)13:55:35 No.7438984>>7439836 (You)

>>7438975
This is irrelevant.

Anonymous 02/19/21(Fri)13:57:39 No.7438994>>7439008 >>7439836 (You)

>>7438975
Notice how it's always the GC that has this issue with "shoddy ports"? Why is that?

Anonymous 02/19/21(Fri)14:01:57 No.7439008>>7439836 (You)

>>7438994
Tons of examples to the contrary. Enter the Dragonfly is an unplayable mess on the PS2 that can't even hit 30fps while on the Gamecube it runs at 60 and has far less bugs. Resident Evil 4 on the PS2 was an absolute embarrassment with graphics that were so downgraded it doesn't even look like the same game.
> REEEEE but muh extra content
Which was backported to the superior Gamecube version and reworked into the Gamecube Slim (Wii) version

Anonymous 02/19/21(Fri)17:09:03 No.7439601>>7439625 >>7439836 (You)
eternal_darkness_screen_1.jpg (159 KB, 1280x720) google yandex iqdb wait
159 KB

>>7438975
>>b team
>>a team
>>hMmMmMmMmMmMmMm

>>7439863
whatever no point in arguing with an obsessed nintroon like yourself

>>7439830
Lurk moar newfag
https://youtu.be/TTb-Et8He1I

It only makes sense that this board is full of autists.

>>7439168
Console warring is really no different than the people arguing about SMB3 vs SMW and Sonic 2 vs Sonic 3&K. I'm really glad this board isn't full of those threads every day anymore

>>7438984
>the talent of the studio behind the project is irrelevant
Look at this cope.

>>7439124
As a late tween/teen during the early days of and leading up to these consoles, I personally viewed it as GC being the Nintendo box to play first party Nintendo games, XBOX as the sports and sports-like games console (though that was primarily my thought around launch), and PS2 as the general use console. I eventually wound up with all three, but XBOX was last.

>>7438967
>The gamecube has better Graphics than the PS2
Why yes. It does.
youtube.com/watch?v=k_MBy3MX2nI

>>7440178
And I don't mean "general use" as a bad thing for PS2. It could handily play DVDs and had a great, diverse library. Maybe some would classify it as a normie console as a result, but that really isn't a bad thing. I'd probably still pick GC over it just because of my love of Nintendo and the RE remake, but honestly a PS2 was a better buy, all things considered, especially during the rental era when you had tons of shit to choose from.

>>7440146

Didn't you learn anything from the kickstarter?

Kojima is perhaps an exception, as he was smart to have his own studio and to be a partner with major studios. but to this day I haven't seen a project by one of these so-called industry professionals that looks professional

>>7439601
desu Eternal Darkness is a hastily ported N64 game.

>>7438967
> I have cherry picked an example so therefore it must make all the other cases of GCN graphical superiority invalid.
And yes, you will find a few other examples because of Nintendo always gimping their consoles with inferior media formats, so devs would squeeze everything on one disc to reduce costs, but even with one disc games, a lot of them are better graphically, and with two disc GCN, there is no contest.

tl;dr It does, Snoyboi

>>7438993
You forget the Dreamcast anon. Everybody forgets the Dreamcast. I'm not even a Segafag and this makes me feel sad.

>>7439863
looks like someone hasn't seen Timesplitters

who gives a shit

>>7438975
Wasn't even a b-team. It was Silicon Knights that made Twin Snakes.

>>7438979
>racing game
Who cares

>>7438967
The PS2 could push more polys but was harder to work with and didn't have native support for a lot of rendering effects. The Gamecube theoretically pushes fewer polys but was incredibly easy to program for and it had native support for certain effects that the PS2 lacks. Overall, they were about equal. With that said, GCN hardware is 1-2 years newer and there is literally nothing on the PS2 that can match the visual fidelity of GCN Resident Evil 4. If you disagree, you are wrong. The light effects alone put anything on PS2 to absolute shame.

>>7438979
Auto Modellista looks better.

>>7438967
I think the PS2 could technically push more polygons and particles, but it has god awful imagine quality between the resolution, interlacing, and textures/texture memory. It also just didn't have the same shading capabilities the GC had. Silicon Knights also wasn't in the same league as 6th gen Konami's A team. Not that it matters, you just wanted to shitpost.

>>7440734
*image, I hate myself

>>7440229
>1080 widescreen render
Disingenuous, but GC had better looking 1st party/high tier 3rd party games

>>7438979
>those textures
>in a late 6th gen racing game
meanwhile, on the 'cube...

>>7440775
>Disingenuous
Nope, never claimed it did 1080p, just an image I found on Google. There is a difference between graphics and resolution, and I made no claim about the latter.

>>7439150
This sounds based

>>7438993
>Halo
Halo's ugly. Silent Hill 2, SotC, and MGS 2 look a lot better

>>7440221
>desu Eternal Darkness is a hastily ported N64 game.

That's true, and I don;t think it looks bad. Neither does Twin Snakes. But the models are a step down from Metal Gear Solid 2's for sure. It's not really a case of better hardware. Hideki Sasaki's art direction, a really talented modeling team and motion capture. The game still has some of the best looking models of gen 6. Resident Evil 4 on the GameCube has better looking character models than TTS too.

>>7440229
prime games always looked sterile and flat.

>>7439839
If you go to the link in picrel and look through the autistic manchild the dev goes back and forth with, it really is no different from your average fanboy on /v/.

>>7440716
SOTC had better complex lighting, fur physics, particles, etc, than RE4. No question about it.

>>7440229
That's a 1080P Prime 3 screenshot; a Wii game.
Don't shill for games you don't play, makes you look stupid.

>>7440182
Let's not forget the PS2's inability to play the cutscenes in real time. See also: Killer7.

>>7440967
>SH2
low draw distance outside, small/low poly rooms inside, few models on screen at once
>SotC
~15fps
>MGS2
Extremely low poly/detail environments to maintain 60fps.

All affected by PS2's image quality. Not shitting on the games. They're all pretty good though I think SotC is a bit of memew, but PS2 is a fucking tater dude.

>>7441274
It ran like total, absolute trash too. It's almost unplayable.

>>7438967
Isn't this a matter of model design rather than processing power? The models on the left are more detailed in some ways to the ones on the right, but the right has way better designs for 6th gen graphics.

>>7438967
Do formal specs not exist at this point in time? How do these retarded threads persist when hard spec data is floating around to destroy this retarded speculation?

>>7441182
Silicon knights were just not as talented as Kojima Productions. The processing power wouldn't have made a difference.

>>7438967
Why the fuck did they give Otacon gray hair?

Yeah? Graphics really don't matter to me.

>compared apples to potatoes with a native PS2 game vs a half-assed spit-shined port of a PS1 game
>Ignored the apples to apples comparison of RE4 where GameCube is massively superior

Back to /v/, zoomie

>>7441548
>Silicon knights were just not as talented as Kojima Productions. The processing power wouldn't have made a difference.

Developers were still struggling with 3D models in 2001. The games that would generally get the most praise for their modeling were fighters like Vitrtua Fighter 3 and Tekken Tag Tournament. Shenmue was heavily praised as well. Shenmue may have had low resolution textures. The models were really detailed for their time, and the game has a lot of unique models. Metal gear Solid 2 was most certainly another one that was praised for its use of real time models. Same with Silent Hill 2. Konami had some good modelers.

>>7441821
>RE4 was made specifically for the shitcube
you disingenuous nigger

>>7438967
Silicon Knights are not Konami.

The GC's big advantage vs. the PS2 was graphical effects, being somewhere between DX7 and 8. The problem was that it required an art pipeline that was different from either the other consoles or PCs, causing developers to stick to the lowest common denominator between them, and several of these effects need additional textures that strain the already limited storage space of the GC.

>>7441896
It's almost like the GameCube has better hardware capabilities than the PS2 and the Ememetion Engine

>>7441915

It doesn't help that unlike the Xbox, the GC and Wii's suite of possible effects aren't applicable to every possible game. The game's environments and art style have to be built for them in mind, or it may as well be a PS2 game.

>>7441941
MGS3 would like a word, the shitcube dropped all pretense and decided to look like a lunchbox for toddlers as well.

>>7439031
well then suck my dick and call be a fag because this boy plays GameCube

>2021
>console war arguments on the grandpa board

>>7441213
Let me guess, you're the same faggot who posted Black and thinks brown and bloom looks good. The word you're searching for is clean. Metroid Prime has very clean graphics without a bunch of piss ugly post processing filters slapped over it like Sony fans tend to prefer.

>>7441990
6th push was a success.

>>7441992
yeah we know gamecube couldn't even do basic post processing effects the dreamcast could. This means most of the best looking gamecube games either have pre-rendered backgrounds or are brown & brown (re4, metroid prime.)

>>7441513
no game that generation does more than sotc in terms of visuals.

>>7441519
Get good

>>7442009
Are you implying there weren't autists still getting butthurt over PS1 versus 64 or SNES versus Gensis on here before 6th gen?

>>7438994
Probably an architectural difference that many devs just weren't willing to put time and money into dealing with.

>>7444415
Also, the mini-disc were an issue once dvds became the standard media format, I forgot to mention.

>>7438994
probably because they were originally developed for PS2. Play killer7 or RE4 on ps2, they both look bad compared to the GC versions. GC has objectively better specs IDK what the fuck you're trying to argue here.

>>7444421
I don't know how Sony was not sued for being anti-competitive

>>7438967
The engine was optimized specifically for PS2. Runs and looks like shit on anything else from that gen.

>>7444797
>GC has objectively better specs
You have no idea what you're talking about, begone zoomer.

PS2 is 147Mhz pixels per cycle x 16 pixel pipelines = 2352 megapixels fill rate.

Gamecube is 162Mhz pixels per cycle x 4 pixel pipelines = 648 megapixels fill rate.

PS2 Emotion Engine FPU + VU0 is 3.08 GLFOPS

Gamecube Gecko is 1.9 GLFOPS

The PS2 was objectively mpre powerful than the GC, but it was harder to program for, suffered from a hardware AA bug which wasted resources on supersampling to get rid of jaggies, and lacked texture decompression, though of course it wasn't as wasteful as GC's fixed processing power with it's gimped custom FPU that also served as it's SIMD unit.

If you would like to learn more, follow the user's "rusty" replies in this thread. He really laid it down in pages 50ish-60ish
https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?26634-PS2-vs-Dreamcast-Graphics

>>7445346
Furthermore, Nintendo fanboys always point to RE4 somehow as proof, but Shinji Mikami said he would commit sodoku if it got ported to the PS2, and there were tons of multiplats that ran and looked better on the PS2 than the GC (with Xbox generally looking the best).

>>7445352

>>7445357

>>7445346
>>7445352
>>7445357
>>7445358
Don't care, RE4 shows you're wrong.

>>7445368
It's like the megahertz myth which you fanboys also appropriate, but wrapped up in an obvious logical fallacy. Go look at the fillrate again. I can't stress how important fillrate is, once you reach that your frames tank. And if that isn't the bottleneck, then VRAM is, and the PS2 has more bandwidth than the GameCube.

>>7445374
>Go look at the fillrate again
That isn't going to make the PS2 version of RE4 any better.

>>7445376
Cause it was a rushed port, but Burnout 3 was on the PS2 and not the GC cause the GC couldn't cut it.

>>7445380
>Burnout 3
Does PS2 have anything that isn't an inferior multiplat?

>>7445376
>BUT BUT MUH RE4
This is literally the only GC game nintendrones have. It must be so tough to have to do the mental gymnastics necessary to attempt to argue that the weakest console (by far) that generation was actually more powerful.

>>7439119
stop replying to bait, hide posts

>>7445386
>It must be so tough to have to do the mental gymnastics necessary to attempt to argue that the weakest console (by far) that generation was actually more powerful.
I know right, you seeing this guy try and pretend the PS2 wasn't the weakest?

>>7445385
It couldn't even run on the Gamecube, see here:
>>7441274
Now it's gone full-circle, read through the thread to understand. The GameCube was a simple yet powerful piece of hardware that would crush under the weight of trying to render more than one blade of grass. The PS2 was a complex and customizable machine where you could accomplish things that you couldn't on the GameCube if you had talented programmers. End of discussion.

>>7445395
>The PS2 was a complex and customizable machine where you could accomplish things that you couldn't on the GameCube if you had talented programmers
Yet it can't seem to run RE4 for shit. Something doesn't add up here.

>>7445404
Shinji Mikami said he'd kill himself if it went to PS2, it was originally announced as a GC exclusive and was rushed for the PS2 port after they were afraid it was going to flop or it did flop on GC, I forget which exactly. It's like saying why did MML64 look like shit? Developed for different hardware and not ported well. But by all means, continue pretending to be retarded.

>>7445395
If the Gamecube run something like F-Zero GX then Burnout 3 shouldn't be that hard to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ1FLPBw1FE
Sound more like laziness.

>>7445352
>>7445357
>>7445358
The missing details is due to the mini disks and not because PS2 is more powerful retard.

>>7445441
Burnout 3 has way higher poly cars, better lighting, reflections, more particle effects, and most importantly F-Zero GX has no real physics. That's why Burnout 2 was on the GC and 3 wasn't, because 3 did a lot more with its physics. F-Zero GX is a relatively simple-looking game with a great aesthetic.

>>7439863
The GameCube is a PowerMac G3.

>>7438967
>make shit model despite the ability to do better
>blame hardware
???

>>7445346
>muh post processing
Really?
>worse dynamic shadows
>godawful textures
>shit draw distance
>no AA
>no pixel shaders
PS2 is shit

>>7439863
>>>7439839
>Xbox is literally a off the shelf budget PC in a htpc case. Its just laughable to think that it can compete with Gamecubes custom hardware

The OG Xbox basically has a mobile variant of the Pentium III coppermine @ 733MHz with a 128KB cache as apposed to the desktop variant, which has a 256kb cache. The GPU is based on a GeForce III, but is modified to use DirectX 8.1m while the standard GeForce3 like only supported Direct X8.The GPU wasn't quite an "off the shelf" part. Geforce III cards came with either 64MB or 128MB of DDR memory. The Xbox uses 64MB at a lower clock rate. The Geforce III was the strongest part of the original Xbox. The Geforce III line of cards launched pretty close to the original Xbox release in NA. At that point in time, I had an AMD Duron 1.1GHz CPU, 256MB DDR , GeForce 2 ti with 64MB RAM and a 50GB HDD. The GeForce III in the Xbox outclassed my GeForce 2. The Duron wasn't much better than the copermine, despite being higher clocked. But then again, I had a "budget" PC. for 2001.

>>7445358
what game?

>>7438967
The models in the left have higher polygon counts.

>>7438967
that's great, now compare soul calibur 2

>>7439863
That's a load of fucking bullshit. If it was we wouldn't need to emulate it to play it's games on PC.

>>7446313
Xbox wins by a mile
>but my generic sword guy!
don't care gaycube sycophant

>>7446335
Xbox sacrifices widescreen for the 720p output. Still, an impressive feat HD gaming was rare back then.

>>7446285
Tony Hawk's Underground

>>7438967
These comparisons are always stupid. Go and compare the Xbox and PS2 versions of MGS2, or Silent Hill 2. They're an obvious downgrade on Xbox because even the Xbox couldn't match the fillrate of PS2. The truth is hardware adhered to whatever the engineers thought would suit gaming best.

>>7445840
>The GeForce III in the Xbox outclassed my GeForce 2
You are under estimating the GF2 ti. In dx7 games and lower they should perform almost the same. Only advantage of the GF3 is pixel shaders and AA/AF

>>7438967
MGS2 honestly is a miracle. Literally comes out barely a year into the system's lifespan and is one of the best looking games on it for its entire run, and all at a smooth 60fps.

>>7438993
they all had same graphics
everything, same

>>7439024
Black ran at like 20fps with garbage textures and at a lower resolution. The game was never impressive, even when it came out it looked like shit.

https://def-jam-wrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Def_Jam_Fight_For_NY

>There are features exclusive to PS2 and Xbox that are missing from the GameCube version. The player is restricted to having one voice for the main character - as opposed to the six found in other versions. Eight of the 28 available music tracks are missing. The Gamecube's hardware lacks the light blur effect that permeates on the characters and arenas. Furthermore, certain 3 or 4 player arenas have reduced crowds due to the minidisc space limitations.

I thought the Gamecube was at least more powerful than the PS2, but wow.

>>7446512
>the GC doesn't even support 32bit colors
The banding is insane on that console. I have no idea how people can defend it - what a piece of junk.

>>7446512
That is disc limitation, not hardware limitation. Gamecube had the power to do all of that and much more the what the ps2/xbox could

>>7446512
so the port of Crash Bandicoot Wrath of Cortex being shit on Gamecube is because of lazy devs or the machine itself? Seems like one or the others happen often with multiplats on the cube

This shit is like seeing a person with a CD and a person with a SACD using a different master fighing eachother

>>7446526
It didn't. GC was very limited in capability, the little it could do it was fast at.

>>7446409
>You are under estimating the GF2 ti. In dx7 games and lower they should perform almost the same. Only advantage of the GF3 is pixel shaders and AA/AF

I think the GeForce 256 and GeForce 2 line of cards had some memory bandwidth issue that were solved with the GeForce 3 and GeFosrce 4 lines. I actually replaced my Geforce 2 with a crappy GeForcce 4MX for a while. The Geforce 4MX didn't support DX8 or pixel shader/ vertices shaders, and are like updated Geforce 2 cards. Photo related is mine. I used this PC set-up in 2004 (for real) to play games like Doom 3 and HL2. I used Windows XP with this system. The GPPU is an MSI GeForce 5700FX with 256MB RAM, CPU is a Athlon 2400+ Thoroughbred, and two 512MB (1GB) DDR PC 2100 modules. The motherboard is in the box, but has some broken caps.Maybe I will take a stab at fixing it and getting this running again.

>>7447895
Isn't the video card that consoles use different?

>>7438967
Zone of the Enders 2 was a PS2 game so uh, obviously?

>>7447907
>Isn't the video card that consoles use different?

The GPU in the original Xbox is based on a GeForce 3, but has some additional enhancements found in the GeForce 4 line of cards. The biggest difference with the Xbox GPU is that it supports DX8.1, while Geforce 3 only supports DX8. GeForce 4 Ti cards have DX8.0a and I think can use DX8.1.

>>7438967

I was watching a video comparing ports of some games and I just found in the recommended tab half of the threads of / VR /.

This thread included

Are there children browsing this board?

>>7445840
>The OG Xbox basically has a mobile variant of the Pentium III coppermine @ 733MHz with a 128KB cache as apposed to the desktop variant, which has a 256kb cache.
>>7445840
>I had an AMD Duron 1.1GHz CPU


To be honest, an AMD Duron at 733MHz is about on-par with the performance of a Coppermine at the same speed. Or at least comparable with the laptop version which has a larger L2 cache. The Duron has two 64kB L1 caches and one 64KB L2 cache. A 1.1GHz Duron is faster than the 733Mhz PIII coppermine.

>>7445346
None of this bullshit changes the fact that RE4 on GC runs at nearly twice the polygon count when compared to PS2.
You're comparing theoretical performance output that is provided by the company themselves versus real-world performance that results from the very challenges inherent to the hardware design which you yourself pointed out.
And, no, Burnout not being ported to GC doesn't "prove" PS2 is superior, it just demonstrates how those specific limitations can manifest themselves in ugly ways. The reality is that from a purely graphical standpoint, GC ran circles around the PS2.

>>7445374
Game with the highest poly count from that gen was 20 million... and it was on GameCube.

>>7446473
Not that I'm negating the accomplishments of MGS2, but MGS2 was able to do what it did because it only had an hours worth of play space (not including backtracking, cutscenes and retrys) which they then spent an exorbitant amount of time combing over the animations, models, AI and environments to make them as detailed as they were. Not many devs are willing to go for the ratio of content to player space that Kojima Productions does for it's value proposition.

However, I wish more games with current technology went for game lengths of around MGS3, Resident Evil 4 or Half-Life 2 for hand crafted content to gameplay length and density, which is a perfect ratio for allowing for really detailed single player scenarios while also allowing for breadth of player engagement. I'm sad that this style of single player games have largely died just as when they would have hugely benefited by the amount of processing power and technology available to them.

>>7439024
>Depth of field
>HDR
>30 fps
>good
>>>/v/

>>7448945
>The reality is that...
In what reality? The only reality that is acceptable to you - that RE4 was better on the GC, despite the fact that there exists other multiplats that went the other way? Because you prefer the visuals of technically simple games on the GC, so you consider the GC more powerful? Those are not actual arguments, however. There is not a single game that the GC ran that the PS2 couldn't run with some downsides, like image quality, considering it wasn't lazily ported. The GC, however, couldn't handle as many polygons with complex shaders, physics, serious changes to a game's visual style and fidelity. Static polygons with simple lighting, that's easy. Putting in complex lighting, reflections, animations, physics, that is the hard part. That's what the PS2 excelled at. Saying "the GC ran circles around the PS2" just because you have a subjective opinion is pure fanboyism and not supported by the facts and real-life examples. The difference is the technical specs like fillrate and memory bandwidth addresses the biggest actual concern with even modern GPU bottlenecks, compared to the PS2, the PS2 had more fillrate, more bandwidth, more system memory, more CPU power, and most flexible rendering pipelines that generation. The Xbox, more system memory, more fillrate, more CPU power. The GC is part-by-part weaker than every other 6th gen console.

>>7448953
>20 million polygons
You're talking about Rogue Squadron, right? So that figure was apparently stated by an IGN interviewer, that they managed to double the polygon count from 9 million to 18 million in splitscreen mode. However... there's just no hard proof for it. It wasn't quoted by a dev either, just the IGN reviewer. The burnout dev addresses it in picrel in the thread, page 49:
https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?26634-PS2-vs-Dreamcast-Graphics/page49
(Read through the whole thread, or at least go back a few pages as well, but do read up to pages 50-60)

>>7449145
By the way, by saying the GC is the weakest 6th gen console, that's not hating on the GC or Nintendo. It was obviously very well-designed to get it to run as well as they did. It's more of an achievement than anything. It's mearly a fact.

>>7449145
>despite the fact that there exists other multiplats that went the other way?
Metal Arms is significantly better on Gamecube than on PS2.

>>7449161
PS2 got Black and Burnout 3 which the GC couldn't handle in terms of particles and physics. Neither non-multiplats like SOTC.

Let me put it in very simplistic terms for you:
Gamecube = good at simple 3D graphics, lacking with complexity, even the Frontier devs that made Rogue Squadron (the supposed 20 million polygon game) admitted that.

>>7449195
Black is an ugly game that runs poorly. I have no idea why you keep bringing it up.

>>7449250
>ugly
That's on a subjective level, but again, the particles, physics, and lighting kick the shit out of anything on the GameCube on a pure technical basis.

omae wa mou shinderu

>>7449250
MGS3 also had pretty complex lighting and foliage, another example that springs to mind.

>>7449271
That ugly turd is objectively far shittier looking than Metroid Prime 2. I don't care if the game blurs the screen whenever you reload or whatever other dumb shit they forced into it.

>>7449195
I doubt the PS2 would run Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, and Rouge Squadron at a stable framerate.
It couldn't even run Ikaruga well enough.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/article_47442

>>7449285
>That ugly turd is objectively far shittier looking than Metroid Prime 2
Right, well, what you're talking about is subjective, what I've been talking about is objectively what the hardware is capable of. Metroid Prime is comparatively simple looking. It's like talking to a brick wall.

>>7449291
>claiming that the legwork in doing so would be prohibitive because of the PS2's peculiar hardware configuration
And there you go. They didn't want to lazily port it over. That's commendable.

>>7439762
Sounds like bullshit.

>>7449296
>what I've been talking about is objectively what the hardware is capable of
If Black is the best the PS2 has to offer than it's obviously weaker than GCN. Once again I don't care if it can render some horrendous looking bloom in the second most monochromatic game ever created.

>>7449304
MGS3, SOTC, Burnout 3, hell go look at the water physics test they did in R&C. We've treaded over this topic 100 times and you can't offer any actual arguments just bullshit like "well it LOOKS better to me" when I'm speaking purely in technicals.

>>7449314
>MGS3, SOTC, Burnout 3, hell go look at the water physics test they did in R&C
Bunch of jaggy ass games that look worse than MP2. At least one of them runs at 60FPS lol.

What examples of games ported from PS2 to GC do we have?
And vice versa?

I know that the Gamecube had hardware rendering features that the PS2 and even the xbox didn't (i read this in a magazine like 15 years ago, so I don't have a source on it), but was gimped in other ways. Things like the water blobbies in Mario sunshine and that sort of shit iirc... screen effects... Something. I don't remember the details. The PS2 iirc had a better processor, which would explain burnout 3 getting bottlenecked on the GC, and why RE4 looks like shit on the PS2.
As for their abilities to push straight poly's and textures I have no idea which is better.\
I know the GC could do DOF though, since that's also in Mario Sunshine, plus added heat waves.

>>7438967
Resident Evil 4 showed how much a shitty console the ps2 was.

>>7440182
Jesus fucking christ.

>>7445352
Why do all the buildings look the same on PS2 and Xbox but have rich, vibrant colours on GC? Genuine question.

>>7440182
>a game made specifically for a console is better on that console
hmmmm...

>>7449280
MGS3 suffered from 30fps though and if I recall the sections with water/lots of particles were into the 20s
I mean in general you have to give the gamecube props for almost every game targeting 60fps

It might make more sense to compare games that were developed simultaneously for both consoles.

>>7450339
MGS3 on PS2 usually ran way worse than 20 you could get single digits not even joking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poEqykRrxDk

>>7438967
too bad twin snakes sucks

>>7438967
But that picture doesn't make any sense? The meshes are different - it's the artistry that's missing on TTS, not the hardware.

>>7450578
There's plenty of artistry in Twin Snakes. You're just a pleb.

>>7438967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t68hZJLztvc
both are cheap babyshart consoles

>>7438967
Super Mario Sunshine
You lose the argument.

>tfw the GC and Xbox's advantages mostly went to waste because everyone developed for the most popular system

>>7450997
You're joking, right?
This is nearly a launch title, and it has more detail than 99% of GC games.

https://youtu.be/ZCNSwbQrYvQ?t=128

>>7451439
>no cast shadows on geometry
>water looks like shit
>low poly everything
>shit muddy textures

>>7438967
Well I mean it ran games better, so...

>>7452220
Next time try listing flaws that Super Mario Sunshine doesn't suffer from. Jak is wholesale a far better, more detailed, more colourful game.

>>7438967
Soul vs Soulless

>>7451439
these games only look ok in motion

>>7451439
how the fuck is nintendo's art direction so good

fucking western devs puke shit vom

>>7440235
Anon, nobody is believe you when you go with such a fake name for a made up console

>>7438967
>starting a consolewar for 20 year old systems
You need to go back, zoomer
>>>/v/

>>7448108
>The GPU in the original Xbox is based on a GeForce 3, but has some additional enhancements found in the GeForce 4 line of cards.


The Xbox uses a chip called the NV2A, which is based on the NV20 (GeForce 3 Kelvin) , but contains two vertex shader pipelines like the GeForce 4Ti line. The memory clock and GPU clocks are slower than the GeForce 3 line, for thermal consideration. This card adds DX8.1. Though, DX.8.1 was a patch for Windows 9X/ XP as well. Most cards supported it too. Thew Xbox GPU was a beast.

The CPU in the system, was a mobile CPU (lower end desktop PIII?) and comparable to the AMD Duron line of CPU's:

https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/253/AMD_Duron_700_MHz_(D700AVS1B)_vs_Intel_Pentium_III_733_MHz_(RB80526PZ733256).html

But the PIII has more instruction sets supported. Definitely going with a cost reduced CPU and a higher end (for 2001) GPU.

>>7452597
https://youtu.be/UDtKLmiGwj0?t=4

>>7452482
>20 years
>zoomer
words have no meaning anymore

>>7439059
Doesn't Shadow of the Colossus run at like 20fps?

>>7454950
So, double the framerate of n64 games?

>>7454959
>comparing a late 6th gen game to 5th gen

Graphics fags are the /vr/ cumbrains

>>7439071
>HDR wasn't a thing back then
It certainly was in games on PC and the last batch of PS2 game flexed their tech by incorporating it too like Shadow of the Colossus and Black despite the PS2 being incapable of pixel shader operations.

>>7455754
That isn't HDR.

Turn voices effect up to ten

Game desnt have voiced dialogue

>>7454959
>he copes by comparing it to even older hardware
snoyfags everyone

>>7441298
Im just using Prime as an example, I didn't realize that was 3, desu 3 looks like 1 and 2 graphically anyways. Also, lol about worrying about me looking stupid on an anonymous subreddit.

>>7442397
>flat
>Metroid Prime
Are you retarded? or just haven't played the game?

>>7452423
I like how the rendering distance is like 100 in game feet, where as in Delphino Plaza you can literally see the entire town if you're high enough.

>>7453870
I know OP is a zoomer because only they give a shit about console wars. This is merely a stealth “Snoy vs Nintendies” thread.

>>7441298
>>7456821
isn't the wii just a faster gamecube anyway?

>>7456856
The nintendrone reality distortion field, everyone. Nintendrones will literally look at a screenshot rendering an entire city in the far distance and complain that it's "100 in-game feet". It is completely baffling to me, or anyone with any modicum of rationality, how one could be this deluded. Though, I suppose one would have to be deluded to enjoy the shit hardware and games continually peddled out by a company like Nintendo.

>>7456860
essentially. Its CPU is just an evolution of the Gamecube and has tacked on motion controls, that's why GCN compatibility is basically 100%, because it's a super Gamecube. Not super fond of the Wii, and still believe that most games are made worse by motion controls with the exception of a few, like Wii sports ofc, but as I grow older, I grow slightly more fond of the Wii . . . slightly.

>>7456982
>Defending a company that doesn't care about you this hard.
So who was delusional again friend?

>>7457024
I'm not the one defending Nintendo, of all godforsaken companies, friend.

>>7457020
>>>7456860
>essentially. Its CPU is just an evolution of the Gamecube and has tacked on motion controls, that's why GCN compatibility is basically 100%, because it's a super Gamecube. Not super fond of the Wii, and still believe that most games are made worse by motion controls with the exception of a few, like Wii sports ofc, but as I grow older, I grow slightly more fond of the Wii . . . slightly.


The Wii's Broadway CPU and the Gamecubes' Gekko CPU are both based on IBM's PowerPC 750CXe. They are similar, but the Wii CPU is shrunk down in size (90MN from 180MN) and is clocked at 729MHz, while the GameCube is clocked at 486 MHz. The Wii GPU has all of the same functions as the GameCube CPU, but it is clocked higher, has better memory bandwidth. The system also has more memory (16MB main vs 32MB main).

Wii literally is an upgraded GameCube.

>>7457020
>>7457587
Has anyone compared is GC games run better on Wii? higher/ more stable framerates?

>>7438994
didnt the devs for burnout say the GC couldnt handle burnout 3? i always thought it was bs

>>7456982
Did your mom beat you with a GameCube controller or something? You've got some problem you gotta work on man

>>7451439

This was also a launch title

>>7457828
They run the same because the hardware is limited to Gamecube specs while running Gamecube games. If the system were allowed to run at the Wii level game performance would be too unpredictable: depending on the game it'd either perform better, become unstable or not change at all.

>>7438967
Which Daniel Jackson is supposed to look better?

>>7439087
My only gripe is that they never ever ported MGS: The Twin Snakes and Eternal Darkness to PS2 and/or Xbox, like Capcom did with RE: Zero and RE1: Remake later on.

>>7439080
The pee ass three...

https://youtu.be/CQDHGFY2ntg

>>7457587
And even the Wii U shares the same basic architecture. That's why it was easily to make it backwards compatible with Wii games, although they had to develop a virtual Wii mode (essentially a virtual machine) that emulates the Wii's OS. It can't run physical GC games, but you can softmod the console so it runs GC ISOs. It wasn't easy, that's why I sold my Wii U. Oh, and the Wii U won't upscale or enhance the Wii games like the XBO does with some X360 and classic Xbox games.

>>7445840
I got a Geforce 3 put in my Compaq Persario around 2005.

Good times. Neverwinter Nights looked like shit before that card and certain games were unplayable with the integrated graphics.

Loved that the Geforce 3 had the S-video and DVI ports.

>>7448123
Better report them to Janny and The Jets.

its really like im on a fourm in 2003
you're all fucking retards

>>7440725
almost baited me anon

>>7456982
Never played Clank. Can you get to those buildings off in the distance?

>>7456856
PS2 supports LODs too my friend.

>>7457828
Yes, games run better with Nintendont.

>>7457828
Yes, games run better, though you have to use Nintendont.
https://youtu.be/HPrejZ0J-2c

>>7438994
The console didn't sell as well and even if it did people don't buy Nintendo consoles for multiplats. Why spend as long working on it if you don't get the return?

It was true then and it's true now.

>>7458337
>won't upscale or enhance the Wii games like the XBO does with some X360 and classic Xbox games.
it's crazy how their backwards compatibility can increase resolution, effects and now even framerates without doing anything to the game itself

>>7458305
>They run the same because the hardware is limited to Gamecube specs while running Gamecube games.

The Wii detects the GameCube disc and puts the CPU into a slower 485 MHz mode that runs at the same speed as the GameCube. But this can be bypassed (as others have pointed out) by using the Nintendon't loader. Which ignores the GameCube slower speed profile.

>>7457587
>The system also has more memory (16MB main vs 32MB main).

I meant to say that the Wii has 64MB of GDDR3 (+24 MB 1T-SRAM VRAM) while the GameCube only has 16MB DDR main memory and also +24 MB 1T-SRAM for video ram. Not 32MB.

>>7458339
>Loved that the Geforce 3 had the S-video and DVI ports.

S-Video out was not uncommon for Nvidia GPU's back then. Component was a lot more uncommon and probably only available in the more expensive GPU models. Back then, I owned a GeForcce 256, GeForce 2, GeForce 3, Gefore 4MX, Geforce 5700FX and all of those cards (except for the 256) had S-Video out. The Geforce 5700FX was the last video card I have purchased with an s-video connection. They were phased out and replaced with HDMI ports, over time. While VGA was replaced by DVI.

>>7438991
He asked on /vr/.

>>7458339
>Loved that the Geforce 3 had the S-video and DVI ports.


S-Video out was not uncommon for Nvidia GPU's back then. Nvidia made sure that their middle tear GPU's all had a TV-out connectcion of some kind. I previously owned a GeForce 256, GeForce 2, GeForce 3, Geforce 4MX, Geforce 5700FX and all of those cards (except for the 256) had S-Video out. The Geforce 5700FX was the last video card I have purchased with an s-video connection. They were phased out and replaced with HDMI ports, over time. While VGA was replaced by DVI.

>>7450997
Kingdom Hearts says hello!

>>7438967
I've noticed that Gamecube multiplats always have lighter shading and thinner character models than both their PS2 and Xbox counterparts. What gives?

>>7459230
Emulator shots. PS2 games tend to be more narrow than 4:3, but are stretched to fit 4:3 on the CRT itself. I believe GC uses proper 4:3 in its rendering. There's a less autistic version of the the SNES 8:7 discussion around it even.

>>7438993
Gran Turismo 4

>>7450997
Based. Sunshine could pass as an Xbox 360 game. Too bad it has the framerate of one, too.

what's his problem?

>>7459297
>Sunshine could pass as an Xbox 360 game

I can't tell the difference between the PS2 and GC versions of 99% of games. Maybe the GC version looks slightly less jagged but that's it.

>>7459297
>Sunshine could pass as an Xbox 360 game
The nintendrone reality distortion field yet again, everyone. Imagine being this deluded.

>>7445346
>oh man the cpu is more powerful therefore the whole console is more powerful
>ignores the gamecubes gpu being more powerful than the ps2's by a wide margin
GC had better graphics, if anyone pulls out Gran Turismo an easy counterpoint is Rogue Squadron which features vast detailed scenes with fully modelled greeble on many of the ships, self shadows and often large battles with hundreds of ships, it's well beyond Gran Turismo and both of them are centered around rendering vehicles, but Rogue Squadron is clearly above Gran Turismo. Nintendo had dropped Rare for the GC era and that was a major loss for them in terms of showing off the hardwares graphics, especially when you consider the N64's best graphics were Dinosaur Planet and Conker's Bad Fur Day, but Star Fox Adventures is a showcase for what the GC is capable of and in spite of it being an early title for the platform it's still technically more advanced than any PS2 games, it's extensive use of fur, it's rendering of grass, reflective water surfaces, self shadows in specific scenes, runs circles around the PS2.
At best the PS2 had more devs working on the hardware allowing them to squeeze more performance out of the hardware, if GC had that it would be impossible to even run your argument because any retard could just look at the games and call you wrong.

>>7449145
>despite the fact that there exists other multiplats that went the other way
The difference between RE4 on GC and PS2 is far more than a slightly blurrier texture or a shader not being implemented accurately on the port release, it's a vast difference in visual quality with in game cutscenes being videos of the GC's real time cutscenes.

>>7440182
The ps2 version looks ok, not as good as the gamecube but not bad. My only problem with the ps2 is how it put a grey fog on everything.

>>7456453
lol you're confusing HDR rendering with display color mapping tech you dumb zoom zoom

>>7450334
RE4 on PS2 was a quality port, they retouched the games assets so that they could fit onto the PS2 and it would have seen significant changes to the engine to optimize it for the hardware, it's easily the best example there is, most ports just lazily rescale textures or accept lower performance on the hardware they are ported to, RE4 goes above and beyond this and it shows that even with significant optimization no the PS2 can't match the Gamecube.

>>7439001
>that
>outperforming prime
Where the fuck am I, the scenes aren't as well detailed, the game isn't 60fps, the lighting isn't as good, and you're comparing early Prime to late Black, try harder petard.

>>7459297
I'll just put this to remind what actually passed as an Xbox 360 game.

>>7452423
Isn't that a screenshot from the HD collection? The original R&C didn't support widescreen.

>>7441519
Why would you even lie about this? I just played this game a couple hours ago on my ps2 and it runs fine. I have know idea what you could possibly gain from lying about the performance of a game from 15 years ago on console 3 generations out of date. How much of a deluded tribalist cuck do you have to be to say shit like this? Get some fresh air and rethink what landed you here man.

>>7460794
That's a cutscene from Halo 4, which came out almost at the end of the 360's lifespan.
Sunshine can hang with the 360 launch titles like Tony Hawk's American Wasteland and Kameo.

>>7440018
That's funny because I saw those two exact threads today

>>7440182
There's barely any difference, the Gamecube version just looks more washed out.

>>7441495
>inability
Actually it's not inability but plain laziness or lack of time on the part of the devs. There is nothing in the cutscenes that exceeds the stress of in-game encounters.

>>7461028
That's a joke, right?

>>7461097
No, but the ps2 is

>>7438967
Yes, games always looked better on Gamecube than PS2 without exception, it's pretty obvious when you compare any multiplat. For one because Gamecube was actually capable of anti-aliasing.

>>7438967
Luigi's Mansion would not be possible on the PS2. The same can be said for Rogue Leader. Oh, and Soul Caliber 2 clearly looks better on the GC, as does Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7, etc...
>two different games used as a comparison
You sad, desperate, utterly pathetic console wars faggot...

>>7438994
Because most GC ports weren't exactly high priority for developers. It was the worst selling console that gen.

>>7461060
so the jaguar cd is a toilet and this an ashtray, what else can we come up with?

>>7461657
If only all jokes were that good.

>>7462624
If they were nobody would ever laugh

>>7438979
how delusional you are kid, the PS2 lacked many hardware features compared to the gamecube
it even lacked a TMU (texture mapping unit) and texture compression hardware that only could be done by software, hell even the Dreamcast had these

The PS2 couldnt even toonification as seeing in Wind Waker cel shaded graphics
https://youtu.be/mnxs6CR6Zrk

Also in lightning effects the GameCube is way ahead the PS2

Burnout 3 was done in the renderware engine the same as Sonic Heroes engine wich runs at the double frame rate on the GC

https://youtu.be/rwjHFsQWWeM

>>7462685
cope and seethe friend, it's what you do best.

>>7440707
>shitlicon knights
>not z-tier

>>7459427
the PlayStation 2 version, graphical effects are reduced in detail. Even more noticeably are the water, shadow, and fog effects, as well as a reduced draw distance, missing many lighting effects , abscence of all specular highlights and water effects needed to be re-designed (ripple with transparency, but a flat surface with no reflections) as the PlayStation 2 hardware does not have the same capabilities as the GameCube. Some small things were left out of the PlayStation 2 version, for instance, the barrels that Leon breaks throughout the game are missing a circular rim on the top compared to the GameCube, character model physics were also downgraded or completely removed due to the sacrificial and downgrading of model quality such as Ada's hair, Leon's back hair, Ashley's hair and Skirt being no longer animated as they were in the original game release.

Additionally, almost all the GameCube's real-time cut scenes were converted into movie files in order to maintain a better quality. This results in the player's character appearing wearing their default costume, regardless of which accessories or outfits were actually chosen. Furthermore, voices and sound effects quality outside of the cut-scenes had been reduced due to disc space being quickly used and audio RAM constraints. An anamorphic 16:9 mode was implemented in the PS2 port and included in all subsequent versions of the game. This mode omits the borders of the 4:3 mode, but still renders the game in the same resolution and utilizes the TV to stretch the image. This results in blurrier graphics, more visible dithering and no additional field of view being added to the game unfortunately minor glitches and bugs fixes will note make the version better.
Capcom did tons of cuts to keep the core gameplay as close as possible on PS2 so graphics and even audio were sacrificed on the process.

>>7459427
>>7462965
>he's still at it
>m-m-m-muh RE4!11!
the classic nintoddler move of hanging on to a single gimmick and never letting it go, even in the face of evidence.
I bet you think the n64 is better than the ps1 as well.

>>7462965
don't forget about the tree branches that went from real 3D models to fucking sprites lmao

>>7462990
It's the classic cubekiddie playbook. Bring up RE4, ignore all evidence dismissing it. Once exhausted, bring up those Star Wars games. That's it.

>>7462990

Show me better graphics with MSAA 3x on PS2

Also as you mentioned the N64 in fact the PS2 MIPS R5900 CPU is actually from the same family as of the N64 one

>>7463051
>MSAA 3x

>>7458084
https://youtu.be/EJHH3rUSpk8

https://youtu.be/P9zCPDea3dI

>>7462861
I'm sorry, are you actually trying to argue that the PS2 can't do cel shading?
Pic related is several leagues better than anything the GC shitted out.

>>7463134

It's not the outlines, it's the way objects are lit in distinct flat sections instead of a gradient. Okami's characters are lit that way, but Cel Damage at least is.

I don't know whether the PS2 can do "true" cel shading, but it should be able to fake it by using a special reflection map, in a technique known as matcap (the N64 could have done so too, if anyone had thought to try it).

>tfw Xchad
>rarely every worried about getting gimped ports of anything

>>7463286

*aren't lit that way

DQVIII's monsters use matcap textures extensively in lieu of complex shaders. It's not gonna react to lighting changes (because it's a static texture), but the game has a painterly artstyle so it hardly matters.

>>7463051
>simple polygons with a single light source
Woow

>>7461038
t. Sonyccuk

>>7463068
Batman begins isn't a good example it was locked to 30.

>>7439001
No, MP has more complex geometry, every crack and mushroom in the game is single handedly crafted one different form another , also the texture work is much more varied to avoid repetion since the games has backtracking

>>7463134
It cant do toonification nor palletization, the term cel shading refers to a comic or animation approach in abstract graphics in video games but from a graphical perspective the true cel shading requires these 3 steps to be considered "real cel shading" so no the ps2 couldn't handle the last two. Usually the shading was done with textures .

Okami is a beautiful game but there it used textures for it's painted art style, WW is on another level of complexity, it does many many things that was way ahead of it's time
https://polycount.com/discussion/104415/zelda-wind-waker-tech-and-texture-analysis-picture-heavy

>>7463692
Black actually has destruction, complex lighting, insane particle effects - all the shit you wrote is a bunch of buzzwords from some tech illiterate fanboy.

>complex geometry
What like bump mapping, LOD, or are you talking about like clipping polygons, can you give me any GC games with decent destruction?

Are trolls here actually attempting to pretend PS2 was even close to Gamecube? Next they will say ps2/cube could match xbox.
Every aspect of ps2 Resident Evil 4 is downgraded because the system just couldn't handle it.
Also MGS >>7438967 is a shit example. Konami hardly cared for anything that was not MGS2 on ps2. Look at how shit they ported it to xbox and pc, or how bad MGS3 runs.

>>7463725
Buzzwords are okay

>>7463728

Particles SFA opening
https://youtu.be/t99xE7Y93ek

Polygon Deformation

https://youtu.be/-pQN0RhlZHo

Also wave race water had it dynamically in water

https://youtu.be/G-QfJ1jsmag

And there are IQ from the water against the player and vice versa

Even 5th gen could do polygon deformation

>>7463302
and when the xbox version was the main version every other port got MOGGED

>>7461028
THAW is a PS2 game. Kameo is originally an OG Xbox game (which destroys GC by default, let alone in HD)

>>7464468
Chaos Theory is just unfair, snoys and tendies just can't compete, it's like a generation ahead.

>>7438967
That's a false comparison if ever I saw one. one is a mainline AAA release aimed at being a massive tech demo, the other is a remake by team b in the back room.

Well I personally don't like the GC because Dolphin fanboys lied, saying PCSX2 was inferior - when in actuality, not only is PCSX2 a good emulator, I'd say I flatout prefer it to Dolphin in a lot of scenarios.

Emulating both PS2 and GC, you'll see the lack of games for the system, and even if you do try to emulate third party, they're usually worse.

Another thing that hurts the Gamecube is just how bad the controller was - not hardware wise, it was one of the best designed controllers in that regard, but the lack of buttons really hurt it. In Godzilla on Gamecube, you have to use 2 buttons to do a grab. On the PS2 Godzilla, you can just use L1 to grab. Such a small change but it makes a big difference.

And if you wanna do

>M-m-muh 4 player!!1

The PS2 has that in spades with games like Champions of Norrath and Gauntlet Seven Sorrows, and with PCSX2, the multitap thing is a meme - but how about six players in the Smackdown games?

The long support on PS2 has Smackdown games up until 2011, with varying features. You can have either arcadey (Just Bring It, Shut your Mouth) or simulation (SVR series). The Gamecube has 4 WWE games and they all have something mediocre about them, like how Day of Reckoning 2 is still only 4 wrestlers on screen.

>>7449301
Read it and weep, retard.

>>7464601
F-Zero GX destroys Burnout 3

https://youtu.be/AX3DOd84Ehc

29 A.I on screen
Huge environments with insane rendering speed

The game pushes the Cube further than almost any other, with a rip roaring selection of varied tracks that are packed with detail and complemented by excellent camera work and a pleasing array of particle effects.

No matter how much is going on at any given time, the frame rate is a rock solid 60, and for a game as fast as this that's a godsend. Passers by will gasp at the chaotic scenes on screen and scarcely believe how you're managing to control the damn thing, never mind win, pausing to dramatically wince in pain of you happen to slip up and explode in a hail of metal shards and fire, not even Quantum Redshift in Xbox could manage 60fps , and it's a game from the wipeout creator

>>7464528
>Kameo is originally an OG Xbox game
actually Rare devs confirmed that kameo started as a N64 games, then was moved to gamecube, to then OG xbox and finally 360
https://youtu.be/1ePfDEOJ-TY?t=97

>>7464739
also here is the E3 2001 one showing of Kameo running on the cube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIEEnNIIveE&ab_channel=ArchivesGameCubeTrailers

>>7438967
Yes.

>>7464601
Many late 6th gen games doesn't release on Gamecube because the previous episodes weren't selling well.
The exclusif Nintendo games was making too much competition.

How much Burnout 2 sells on Gamecube ?

>>7464785
>Many late 6th gen games doesn't release on Gamecube because the previous episodes weren't selling well.

Holy ESL nintendie, batman.

Regardless, EA was one of the last few third party publishers that still supported the Gaycube to the bitter end.

>>7464706
>29 A.I on screen
Low poly vehicles, no physics
>Huge environments
They're very simple
>insane rendering speed
This doesn't tell you how powerful a system is at all, it just has to do with texture streaming which is no 6th gen console should have issues with

About the GC
>It was by far the worst performing of the 3 platforms. You should see the performance penalty when god forbid the GPU has to clip a polygon, it was so bad I actually wrote code to traverse triangle lists and clip tris with the CPU.
>ERP aka Brian Fehdrau, lead programmer of World Driver Championship, the game with the highest polygon count of 5th generation of consoles
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/was-gc-more-or-less-powerful-than-ps2-spawn.52550/#post-1640713

>>7464739
ACHSUALLY ACSHUALLY the version of Kameo that got released on 360 is based on an Xbox version that was almost completed by 2005. Microsoft wanted to stuff their launch lineup so they gave Rare a few months for porting it to 360.
Here's a footage of the Xbox version.
Actual footage, not a vertical-slice trailer (which still looks worse IMO).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZjOYca7lMM
I think this version's beta is even going around on the web, so you can actually get it on your Xbox.

>>7464597
No, PCSX2 is nowhere near as good as Dolphin. Input lag, per-game issues that require tweaking and generally blurrier interlaced visuals are just the things I can name off the top of my head.
PS2 just has a such better library that a lot of times you just cope with it, because GameCube doesn't have The Getaway, or Gran Turismo, or fuck, even GTA. Or WWE in your case.
San Andreas ALONE sold more copies that there were Gamecubes.

>>7465034
low poly top kek

the cars range from 2k up to 5k polygons it is as much as Grant Turismo 4 cars , also the game keeps the same model complexity up to 12 cars near the camera

cry more troll

also

https://youtu.be/7a09Z8o_EE8

>>7465137
That is what I have considered low poly at the time.

t. industry anon

>>7465137
Gran Turismo 4's cars are very much low poly.

>>7465141

3k-4k seems about the average for main characters in PS2 games judging from game rips. Big Boss's 4k, Sora is 3,500, the DQVIII hero is 2,700.

>>7465396
Go find out how many polys are Burnout 3's cars because they seem low poly compared to them

>>7452726
>https://youtu.be/UDtKLmiGwj0?t=4 [Embed]

I love Wreckless as a tech demo on the Xbox. The pros processing effects in the replay showcase the power of the GeForce chip inside. It is like a GeForce 3 on steroids, and somewhere between the GeForce 3 and GeForce 4Ti overall performance. The Sequel Double S.T.E.A.L. (which is Xbox exclusive) throws around a lot of shader effects in the replays:

https://youtu.be/9sFzaSWP1iI?t=105

>>7465437

All I have is what's on the models resource.

Mario in SSBM is 2,600, Link in Wind Waker is 2,800, Allegra from SSX3 is 3,700, Spyro in Enter the Dragonfly is 3,300, Alexandra from Eternal Darkness is 4,200.

Only common model I could find was Crash from Wrath of Cortex, which were identical. Doesn't mean they're equally powerful systems, as cutting back on an animated mesh is an act of last resort. And the devs could have designed it for the least common denominator. But the fact that they didn't feel the need to upgrade/downgrade the model is still telling.

The 360 was a more powerful console than the PS3, but the difference wasn't meaningful, usually coming down to the PS3 dropping a few extra frames or a slightly lower LOD bias - and in a minority of titles they ran identically or worse on the 360. It seems to be a similar deal for the PS2 vs GC, just with fewer multiplats to crown a winner with.

>>7465594
The hell you mean? 360 MOGGED the ps3 in the early days (Madden ran at 2x fps for example) and still was ahead by the end if the gen, only achieving parity or losing if PS3 was heavily focused on over it (like Vanquish)

Doom 3 XBOX:
https://youtu.be/bcdmwYM3E8I?list=PLIqnJ1BtUeFjoahmD27UBKgfirlmv5ROG&t=248

Doom 3 Windows XP (GeForce 3ti 500 64MB -OpenGL):
https://youtu.be/uWNqDGDtMD4?t=270

The footage seen in the playthrough is running at 1024x768 at low-mid settings and gets about 30fps+ with two characters in that cutscene. The lets play video doesn't mention the CPU or RAM though. Xbox port looks like the PC version on mostly low settings running at 640x480. Pretty sure the models are at the same polygon detail. But textures are lower. Doom came out in 2004 and the Xbox port is 2005. In 2004 I bought Doom 3 for my PC. I used a GeForce 5700 with a 2.2GHz Athlon XP 2400+ and 1GB RAM and got around 30-50 fps with Doom 3 at higher settings at 1024x768.

>>7465446
Forgot how good double steal looked, it's one of the few 720p xbox games too.

>>7465743

Was thinking more of the later games where developers basically had each system figured out. A lot changed across that generation as people got to grips with the hardware and DX9 pipelines, Far Cry Instincts: Predator and Crysis 3 were made for the same console.

>>7465753

Looks like some of the levels on the Xbox version were redesigned. At the same time, there's more objects casting shadows.

>>7465964
>Looks like some of the levels on the Xbox version were redesigned. At the same time, there's more objects casting shadows.

Doom 3's original minimum requirements are a 1.5GHz CPU, 256MB RAM and a GeForce 3/ 4 or higher? The Xbox's CPU is 733MHz Pentium III class and the system has 64MB of GDDR3. The maps had to make some changes for performance reasons and textures took a loss. But overall, it is a good port.

>>7466010
Little correction : Xbox had 64MB of DDR RAM. GDDR3 wasn't a thing until 2004 if I remember right.

>>7459304
he hasn't seen his bro in a while

>>7440182
The ps2 version looks better to my eyes

>>7438967
>The gamecube has better Graphics than the PS2
My dad can beat up your dad

>>7438967
Another myth that gets passed around alot is that the n64 is good.

Even if the PS2 is less powerful, the much larger numbers of man-hours put into it means that developers were more knowledgeable about the system. It was usually the lead platform and there's more games for it than all the other 6th gen systems combined.

>>7438979
>It's a common fact that's long been proven, meme spread by the usual breed of deluded söyny cultists who desperately want the world to believe their shit consoles were ever competitive. Anybody with any shred of reasoning knows the truth.

>>7439001
Oh please black can easily run GC hardware with no issues.

>>7469528
positively shaking with anger

>>7441495
>>7441896
>>7445374
PS2 was dogshit

>>7469545

>>7462861
>The PS2 couldnt even toonification as seeing in Wind Waker cel shaded graphics
Isn't Jackie Chan Adventures cell shaded tho

>>7463134
Funny enough Okami was supposed to be on the cube too but was canned due to technical problems(most likely the ton of alpha effects as the cube can't do as many as the ps2)

>>7469547
>wojak
/v/tard seething

>>7469561
no u

>>7463134
>better than anything
>not realizing Okami start off as GC game
Sure dumbass.

>>7469564
K reddit bot

>>7469559
that's some interesting art style

>>7469569
And it went to the trashcan while the ps2 got the final release. LMAO

>>7469564
>>7469547
Cringe

>>7469582
"Trashcan" tech demo is another gamer gem.

>>7467420
>Xbox had 64MB of DDR RAM

You're right.

>>7469583
peepeepoo bing bing wahoo

>>7469528
It's quite funny, in other threads I'm pinned as a Sega fanboy, in yet others I'm a Microsoft fanboy, and then here I'm apparently a Sony fanboy. Perhaps it's not myself whom is the cultist?

>>7469090
t. Blind

>>7461028
>we measure the capabilities of a console by using the shittest, earliest games

>>7465137
>29 AI racers on screen at lod 0
implying

>>7469559
>Isn't Jackie Chan Adventures cell shaded tho

Auto Modellista (PS2):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEXBazvuUPA

DRAGONS LAIR 3D - Return to the Lair (PS2):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkb9py8L3I

XIII (PS2) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsVO258yvuw

Killer7(PS2):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP98zDCr-h0

All of the above listed games are multi platform titles for the Cube, Xbox and PC as well. The PS2 can do cell shaded rendering. The Sega Dreamcast has cell shaded games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QreuLzQ6yvM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfGtF1YLTE
https://youtu.be/j0a3GmIRdl8?t=146

>>7469987
Don't be so hard on the nintendrone, afterall, they really DO measure the capabilities of their shit consoles using early, shitty games, see that Star Wars game they won't shut up about, as though it's anything special.

>>7469617
/v/tard all way lmao

>>7449348
So if we're talking about straight rendering, the GC is better except for maybe particles, but if we're adding physics into "graphics" then the PS2 had it beat.
Ease of programming might also be a factor.

>>7470025
None of them uses toonification nor palletization, they don't change colors in real time , all of them use textures , a good example is the game Ni No Kuni on PS3 it uses all the 3 steps required to be real cel shading.

Jet Set Radio can be considered true cel shaded because the Dreamcast had a TMU unit , but it's approach is way simpler than Wind Waker

>>7470489
Ps2 could use custom microcode much like the n64, they even share the same memory and cpu family

The gamecube is a driverless hardware , every feature is hardwired so no ressource penalty is needed since it won't need software to simulate certain effects as the PS2 , it's cpu , memory and graphics technology was not as modern as the gamecube , raw polygon and fillrate numbers won't make the console better that it's counterparts because of contraints in streaming graphical assets and sounds , also the PS2 has a very small audio memory that caused many problems in creating spacial sound and better quality samples

>>7470025

Auto Modellista and XIII look like the effect is painted on to the models.

Fear Effect for the PS1 uses the same technique. Note that which parts are lit and which are shaded don't change when the characters move around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYriHOHmZUQ

desu cel shading sucks, for every JSR or Wind Waker there were dozens of mediocre licensed games that used the technique, cheapening it

>>7438967

Kojima Productions vs some canadian video game developer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_MBy3MX2nI

>>7445346
PS2 was designed for high fill rate. This was possible because each pixel did only a very simple ALU operation and only accessed one texture (no programmable pixel shaders were supported). Thus by design your "shader" was never ALU bound or TMU bound. Most common texture format was 256 color paletted texture, everything else was slow. For each outputted pixel the GPU sampled exactly one of these (low bit depth) textures. And it didn't support any fancy filtering (anisotropic) that require multiple TMU cycles to complete. So it was never TMU or BW bound, as long as all your textures (and your render target) fit to the 4 MB EDRAM. The most common render target format was the low precision 16 bit (565) format

>>7444806
Sony isn't even in the group that handles the licensing.

>>7438967
Bad game.

>>7438967
Smashfags are known charlatans and liars

>>7472596
shut up fucking nerd

>>7472759
Philips/Sony CD Licensing program

>>7472436
We got too cocky sonybros...

>>7463035
kek you were right >>7463051

>>7474534
lmao at those misleading shots all on PC show the actual vaseline PS2 480i output

>>7474560
PS2 is the only system of that gen that had HD games published on it at least two as far as I recall(GT4 and Valkyrie Profile 2)

>>7474560
shut up

>>7474534
Superb graphics back then.
If upscaled, the game still looks good even today.
I miss those days of pure talent and passion by the devs.

>>7474534
>GC screenshot of RE4
>PS3 screenshot of MGS3
lmao good bait anon

>>7474570
Literally wrong. Xbox has NATIVE 720p games, GT4 is 640x540 integer scaled if I remember right.

>>7474534
>Clock frequency: 294 MHz
the fuck ?

This stupid thread is still going.
This is starting to feel like /v/2.0

>>7474570
GT4 isn't HD
now Soul Calibur 2 on Xbox is HD

>>7446483
Because they were all just running PS2 games. The Xbox was more than twice as powerful than the PS2, which was a total fucking joke and massively hamstrung the entire generation. PS2 was only a little more powerful than the Dreamcast, and forget running something like Shenmue on the PS2, it'd never happen.

Just like how graphics these days stopped in 2009 with the Xbox One, which is (and will continued to be for another 5 years) the target for all games

Xbox 360 is really still the default platform for basically every game if you go by single-threaded performance

>caring about graphics on a retro board
And this is why this board shouldn't have any goddamn PS2/Gamecube shit in it. Hell, it should be 8/16bit only.
You're all now required to play only Atari VCS games for a whole year. That'll teach you how unimportant graphics are.

>>7438967
>direct capture
>ripped model in emulator
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

>>7445352
>>7445357
>>7445358
Oh no, shitty multiplats made by w*stern devs! What will I do without them?!

>>7463134
This also exists on the Wii which has identical hardware to the GC.

>>7440229
Dolphin unlocks the true graphical prowess these games can do.

>>7474570
I remember hearing about GT being 1080 and launching my PS2 to check that out years ago. It was just an ugly upscale.

>>7441213
I agree, something always seemed off about the art style in those games, kind of a bland cartoony look applied to everything.

>>7475231
>much graphics
Fuck off nintentard, everyone with half a brain understands that more powerful hardware enables better experiences.

>>7475453
Right is the document of MGS2

did the gamecube have better graphics than ps2? usually. did the ps2 have a way better library? it did. oh, how it did. and it will remain so until the end of time.

>>7474570
The OG Xbox supported 720p (very few games, but still a larger number than the ones that do 1080i on PS2).

https://youtu.be/mH2ZVlOLPNI?t=1814
so this is the power of Xbox...woah.

There's no way MGS2 could've run on the Gamecube if even the Xbox is struggling with this scene.

>>7478130
>>7478292
>john says right off the bat that it's a mediocre port that's not taking advantage of Xbox hardware
>retard hears "Xbox is weak!"
How about we count all the games PS2 can't run at 512x448i but the Xbox runs at 480p?

>>7478292
Wut ? Twin Snakes is running on the same graphical and physics engine from Metal Gear Solid 2 with extra specular highlights effects

>>7478898
I recommend you to play TTS again and compare the snow effect to the superb rain in MGS2 the amount of particles and transparent layers on the PS2 shits on the Cube so hard it's not even funny.

>>7464601
That's just a shitty excuse. F-Zero GX does more than Burnout 3 ever dreamt of. They probably decided to axe a GC port because of $$.

>>7478292
The reason the Xbox couldn't handle this scene in particular is because:
> Absurdly high fillrate of the GS
> Free Alpha Blending (literally no performance penalty) It's so free that many devs left alpha testing in without even caring to disable it.
> You could do a crazy number of passes (70-140 depending on textures)
> Separate hardware contexts (the main difference maker in MGS2) which allows for separate lighting and texture contexts essentially 2 free passes.
> Very fast clears
> Channel shuffling which this scene used in particular and is much slower to do in shaders with a crazy number of draw calls.
Whoever was working at Konami back then was one crazy coder considering how much the MGS games utilized the GS.

>>7479035
That's because transparency was essentially free on the PS2. It excelled at blending, particles and transparencies given how it was set up.

>>7479075
Burnout 1 and 2 had significantly smaller budgets than 3. EA had no qualms with releasing their games on GC; NFSU2 and all the sports titles in 2004 were there. Sorry anon, GC just couldn't handle it.

>>7479035
Looks comparable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQpGI_M1ogk

>>7479035
>GC cant particles and transparencies LMAO

https://i.imgur.com/MSmfF09.mp4

also

https://youtu.be/a67PibS38bU

metroid prime has some nice visor effects

https://youtu.be/g2P4p0VU76w

>>7472913
>CDs are DVDs

>>7479896
Sony is in the patent holder group for CD/DVD/Bluray

>>7479813
>that WW video
That's all pre-baked and not even that impressive.

>>7480002
You're simply wrong.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD6C

>>7480047
It's also the Wii U version.