/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7420526
My reason is because hardware was unique and catered to gaming. Now it’s just all PC hardware.

>>7420526
Samefag here
Forgot to mention it, but I think that's also the reason why a lot of people don't know where to go, how to attack, where to explore, etc, in a ps1 game. Is something new that you need to understand, not just your average safe-path game from nowadays.

>>7420526
I play anything. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad.

>>7420526
and most of those ideas were terrible.

>>7420526
Good thought, and it had a lot of experimental, weird titles even in its competitor Sega up until the Dreamcast. Too bad >>7420560 is also true.

>>7420560
A failure is way better than a mediocrity
That's all I have to say

>Reviewers noted that Silent Hill used real-time 3D environments, in contrast to the pre-rendered environments found in Resident Evil. Fog and darkness were heavily used to disguise the limitations of the hardware. Along with the grainy textures - also from hardware limitations- most reviewers felt that these factors actually worked in the game's favor; Francesca Reyes of IGN described it as "adding to the atmosphere of dilapidation and decay". In using 3D environments, however, controls became an issue, and in "tougher" areas, maneuverability became "an exercise in frustration"

>>7420526
They also generally look cooler than PS2 games or anything that came after. Partially because most were still 240p, but mostly because of the poly and texture limitations

>>7420526
The only N64 games that came with better ideas were from Rare. And that was because they had the best hardware for development. So every good game from Rare was because of that not their creativity. They just made another Spyro the Dragon, Crash Bandicoot, FPS shooter with better hardware and that was it

>>7420526
Not just that. These days (capcom) games are decided/designed by focus groups. The big money destroyed all creativity in gaming.

>>7421645
Indie games are the best option now

>>7420526
It is also because the controllers weren't designed well for 3D in mind. Its also kind of amazing to me looking back knowing that they had a bit of difficulty figuring this shit out when it seems so obvious now how these 3D games should have been playing. I'd honestly rather take these games with better controls and playability.

In some cases even simple fixes like pic related would have went a long way. N64 controller for example had a shit stick that hurt the fingers after awhile and caked in dust in the bowl. Pic related replaces it with a steel stick and makes it so much better. All these old games would be better with better controls its just how I feel. And in some cases physics. SH2 is more smooth in movement and combat than the first game.

>>7421645
capcom released a lot of weird shit in the late 90s all the way through the end of 6th gen, it was awesome and exciting. now they're another soulless amalgamate of people that hate videogames, not to mention they were getting ready to go full liberal image shift before the leaks.

>>7420526
Yea and also the concept of video games was really young. There were no formula's to clone, no successful marketing fuckery to tend to and games were made to have fun. Nowadays it's just profit and college fags trying to recreate their favorite childhood game and essentially making the same game but in worse

>>7420526

It was the perfect meeting point of exciting new technology, developers unleashing their creativity, and trusting the player to be able to figure things out for themselves. Gen 6 continued to enjoy the benefits of this era but it also began the inevitable process of streamlining, reducing challenge factor, and chasing what sells as more paying customers unaccustomed to gaming joined the fold.

>>7421751
You're a cheater if you're modifying the controls like that.

>>7420550
this

>>7420550
>>7424916
Shit take desu. As a programmer, I cringe when I hear people say this shit. "Unique" hardware is a pain in the ass with no upsides. It made porting harder, causing everything to be an exclusive just because the company didn't know how to port it. Nowadays everything is multiplat unless it's specifically a paid exclusive. And yes, that's a good thing unless you're a hardcore contrarian.

And, standardized hardware allows for standardized toolchains like Unreal, Unity, and in-house solutions that don't change a whole lot between generations. This allows dev knowledge to be built up over time instead of having to relearn everything every 5 years. Which alsos help people with less programming skills make games. Tons of great indie games wouldn't have been been made if you had to learn some retarded nonstandard assembly language to write them.

And of course, keeping architecture consistent between generations allows for easy backwards compatibility without having to include an entire clone of the old hardware in the new console.

Standard hardware is all around a good thing for both devs and players and only dummies who have no idea what they're talking about would lament the loss of special snowflake architectures.

>>7424978
spoken like a true soidev that only knows javascript and python.

>>7420526
we can still do that today young faggot. but the retards in VG aggy are too busy shilling unity with their glownigger sockpuppet buddies

>>7424978
The unique hardware gave the games their identity, its kind of like comparing different art styles, kind of like if the NES was water colour and say ps1 was charcoal, now everything is just soulless shit made to a formula that a boardroom decided will sell. Makes sense from a business perspective but not so much from an artistic one.

>>7425121
also they kill any smaller dev and deny them any advertising

>>7425121
> The unique hardware gave the games their identity, its kind of like comparing different art styles, kind of like if the NES was water colour and say ps1 was charcoal
It's more accurate to say that the consoles limited devs to a certain style. If the NES was water color and the PS1 was charcoal than the PC/PS5/XSeX is a full art studio that allows devs to choose any style they want. Devs on modern consoles can choose to use pixel art, low poly, or any other retro art style, but they can also use tons of styles that weren't ever possible in retro gaming. Like Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Ori, and tons of other games with their own unique art styles. The old hardware artificially constrained artstyle, while new hardware sets devs free of artificial limits on what artstyle they can use.
>>7425126
> also they kill any smaller dev
Are you talking about modern consoles? If so, you're so wrong I don't even know where to begin. Have you heard of a trend called "indie games"?. They're quite popular and successful in the 7th, 8th, and 9th gen while they were barely existent on retro consoles.
> and deny them any advertising
Smaller devs aren't gonna be running a bunch of ads anyway. They're going to primarily be relying on social media marketing and word of mouth.

>>7424905
>and trusting the player to be able to figure things out for themselves
while that might be true for the overall game design, in terms of 3d control they were very conservative to a detremental degree.

>>7425121
shitty first party architecture isn’t going to help solve our artistic stagnation problem.

>>7425317
>Like Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Ori, and tons of other games with their own unique art styles.
Cuphead is the same as playing Felix on NES with better pixels and animation. And Hollow Knight is the same as Castlevania. Ori is the same as Sonic and Donkey Kong with pretty light effects
>The old hardware artificially constrained artstyle, while new hardware sets devs free of artificial limits on what artstyle they can use.
And the only thing they do now is remaster what they did on the old hardware and add better graphics. You call this creativity

>>7425317
>"indie games"
yeah Hentai WW2 is definitely a superior game compared to something like STARR MAZER.

And like we all give a shit about mario/supermeatboy clones like celeste,

Clearly you are a kid since the Xbone "indie" scene is a fucking joke compared to what it used to be during the 360s life cycle.

They had far more than just shitty platformer mario clones.

Hybrid was another indie title that was killed quickly by MS and was a decent Third person shooter with unique jetpack mechanics.

better than your shitty mario clones

>>7425539
90 percent of indie is crap. But you can find some good horror at least

>>7425539
2d is always going to drown out everything else because of how much 3d raises the complexity and resources required, it’s inevitable.

>>7424978

I'm a programmer too, and a better one than you are. I understand what you're saying but I disagree with it. The trouble is that you're only talking about easily measured, practical concerns, when the ultimate measure of a game's value is the aesthetic measure, which is not an easy one. There are artistic benefits to special hardware platforms. I don't feel like fighting with you over it though; you would just overwhelm me with your willingness to keep seizing one more last word, which you'd be able to do because your time is worth less than mine is.

>>7425610
did the ps3’s cell architecture result in anything interesting? seems like that was the last of what you’re talking about.

>>7425806
It did gives better looking games than the competition when used properly.
Too bad multiplat suffered for that.

>>7425567
>find some good horror
please do share anon. i like retro ps1 style but i so want the graphics style of gamecube/ps2 horror from japan, stuff like kuon or echo night beyond.

>>7420526
Nowadays we have (mind you-not retro) batman arkam knight or the new tomb raiders

>>7425610
I like you a lot for this post. I know nothing about the technical aspects of software programming. I just consoom, so my perspective is purely from the user's pov, and so I can appreciate the unique character of the Sega Saturn's games, for instance. The difficulty of game development for that platform is of relatively little concern to me, though I recognize most devs/programmers have incentive to disagree.

The other guy's perspective makes more sense on paper, but humans are not purely rational beings, and most efforts to make human life conform to the structures of simplified, rationalized, instrumental logic have resulted in misery... like mobile gaming. It makes sense for everyone involved, but I loathe its success and the decline of the dedicated handheld market. Anyway, I just wanted to give you mad props for being able to see nuances many can't.

What are some kino PS1 horror games /vr/os?

>>7426631
Koudelka

>>7425610
> I'm a programmer too, and a better one than you are.
Unlikely if you believe such retarded things. I gave a logical explanation of all the benefits of standardized hardware while you just offered nothing but ad hominem and a repeated insistence that making everything harder for devs is somehow a good thing.
>>7426561
> I know nothing about the technical aspects of software programming.
Neither does he.
> like mobile gaming. It makes sense for everyone involved, but I loathe its success and the decline of the dedicated handheld market
It's easy to logically quantify why mobile gaming sucks, and it has nothing to do with homogenized hardware.
1. Touchscreen only - no buttons. This encourages games to be dumbed down to a level even below the NES since you can't count on any level of accurate input, even a dpad and two buttons.
2. It's run by Google and Apple, who have no understanding of gaming as a medium and in many cases are actively antagonistic towards it. If Google and Apple had changed their algorithm to prioritize high quality premium games the platform might have been better. But instead, they allowed those games to be buried beneath a deluge of freemium trash and shovelware. Steam may have shovelware, but you'll rarely see it recommended on the front page, while the front page on mobile is nothing but shovelware.
These are the two main things wrong with mobile gaming, not the hardware. Case in point, the Swtich's internal hardware was ripped directly from an Android tablet. All that changed were the above two things. It added physical controls, and had Nintendo manage it instead of Google and Apple, and turned out 100x better.
(1/2)

>>7426561
>>7427007
(2/2)
> Anyway, I just wanted to give you mad props for being able to see nuances many can't.
He's seeing "nuance" where there is none. The issues with modern gaming were caused by the addition of internet connectivity, and the flood of normies entering the market during the 5th and 6th gen. Standardized hardware has only been a good thing. You just hate it because you think it's responsible for standardized games. It's quite the reverse. It's a bulwark against standardized games because it lowers the barrier of entry for gamedev. Going back to "unique" hardware would accomplish absolutely nothing but push indies out of the industry and give AAA even more control since only they can afford to totally rewrite their games for every new platform.

Also, fuck the janny who removed my other post. It was on topic for this thread asshole.

>>7426631
Galerians

bump

>>7427007
>>7427023
Because of standardized hardware, now everyone who ever wrote 2 lines of code thinks games can be done by one man, no problem. What was the end result of this belief? The industry diverging between megacorps or indies. The middle market is completely dead thanks to this premise. The games we get out of this? Stuff like The Last of Us 2 or Watch Dogs Legion in AAA and Gris or Celeste in the indie market. Maybe I'm biased because I'm a writer, but the atomization of society at large has had horrific effects not just in gamedev but in all aspects of human life. Some challenge is actually good, since it demands the very kind of lateral thinking that lead to, for example, the hardware innovation in the 90's and (to a lesser extent) the 00's. Can't clock processors any higher? Add more cores, simplicity be damned! Can't ray trace in real time but still want detailed lighting? Just approximate using cheaper methods, it'll work! Standardization leads to just that, standard work. Predictable. Boring even. Whereas experimentation brings new things, even if some fail along the way. It's more exciting. And the fact that success isn't guaranteed can actually lead to, counter -intuitively, even more experimentation. A good example is the Tomb Raider series. Lara Croft literally exists because the devs wanted the protagonist to not be thought of as an Indiana Jones knock-off. So they ultimately made the lead a woman.

TL;DR Standardization only leads to more standardization. Some standardization is a good thing, but taken too far it makes everything boring.

>>7432410
Yeah, wouldn’t quit your day job if that’s your standard of writing

>>7425023
meds. now.

>>7425610
You sound like an insufferable faggot. Stop sounding like an insufferable faggot.

>>7420556
I think every game that existed before 2000 benefited from this a little bit, you didn't have guides or videos showing you how to efficiently beat a boss while getting endgame stuff, there was lot of speculation around a game, hence why vidya icebergs exist. Game developers did some non sensical stuff at times, things that probably would keep you stuck unless you had a vidya magazine to help you out, people look at these games more cynically now, because they have played a fuckton of them at this point. When you were a kid you had just a couple of options and you didn't have a grasp of what games were yet, now people break them into genres, types of controls, and specific settings for optimal gameplay. Imagine showing all the meta strategies to speedrun OOT to 90s players, they'd have no idea of what the fuck is going on, I still struggle to understand myself at this point.

Exactly. You pick up any game today and they all have the same controls, same user interface. It's a sheep's world out there.

>>7421751
Saying that the control stick hurts your thumb is a huge lie. It might be a shitty stick but there's no reason to exaggerate simply because you're lucky enough to have a steel stick.

>>7426027
Name one game where there was substantial upgrade

>>7432767
True

>>7432767
>having a different and most definitely worse control scheme for each game GOOD
>having a set template that allows for easy transition from game to game BAD

>>7432824
Not the person you are talking to
But I must disagree. Of course, you can fail if you try something, and you won't fail if you never try. If you just copy the control scheme of other games you will never fail because you never tried.
And of course, if you played something very similar before you are most likely going to get used to the current game very soon. So what? It means nothing.

>>7432410
>The industry diverging between megacorps or indies. The middle market is completely dead thanks to this premise.
This is completely incorrect. The middle market is fine. THQ Nordic, Paradox, and Focus Home Interactive are all doing well and consistently turning profits on AA games. And the divergence you mention is more a semantic issue than anything else. "Indie", has become a catchall for anything that doesn't come from a mega-publisher. Devolver Digital, Team17, and other "indie publishers" put out tons of stuff that could be considered middle market, like for example Serious Sam and Yooka Laylee. But they get billed as indie because they come from an "indie publisher." The issue goes in reverse too. The majority of the shit Microsoft makes for Gamepass is AA/middle market but it gets billed as AAA because it comes from a big company. Or even indie sometimes, like Ori and Cuphead. Platinum Games is AA, but usually gets lumped in as AAA because their games are published by AAA companies.

My point is that people have stopped calling games AA/middle market, but those games still very much exist. There's projects with a wide spectrum of budgets being made. They just aren't being marketed as "middle market".

> Can't clock processors any higher? Add more cores, simplicity be damned!
Nothing is forcing you to use all the cores. Go ahead and write a single core game. I'm sure there's some indie game out there that did it and was successful.
> Standardization leads to just that, standard work. Predictable. Boring even. Whereas experimentation brings new things, even if some fail along the way. It's more exciting.
Again, standardization of hardware =/= standardization of games. The standardization of game design in AAA can be attributed to normies and their terrible taste, not to the hardware.
> A good example is the Tomb Raider series.
I have no idea what this has to do with hardware, or with the rest of your argument.

>>7433002
>early 3D games still finding their way in a new age of video game entertainment, experimenting with control schemes to see what sticks
>most suck shit ass, and it wasn't until the tail end of the 90's that somebody finally figured something out
>finally the perfect configuration for video games is set on stone, each button does what it should do across most video games developed by sensible people
>"dude what if we did that AGAIN"
>"why? i dunno lol"
There is no reason to try experimenting with control schemes just because. I am glad you are not a developer, your co-workers would catch a lot of shit from others because of your stupid control scheme experiment after the experiments were finished 20 years ago idea.

>>7433226
Not that anon, but
> the perfect configuration for video games
> set on stone
> each button does what it should do across most video games developed by sensible people
This is retarded. The control scheme should be tailored to the individual video game based on what mechanics are most important. If different mechanics are important then the controls scheme should be different. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad certain things have been standardized like camera inversion which is a pain to switch between, but experimenting with controls is a good thing. Not just for the sake of experimenting and being a special snowflake, but experimenting to find the optimal controls for your game idea.

The controls should be designed around the game, not vice versa. If we take your idea of sticking only with established control schemes, we'll end up with the same game mechanics across every game as well, since the established control schemes are optimal for the established game mechanics.

>>7433254
This.
So. Much. This.

>>7426631

>>7433226
bad take
Unique controls are why retro games are much more enjoyable than modern games
What's the point in playing newer vidya when everything feels like a copy of another game? Unique controls don't mean unintuitive or bad.
>>7433254 has a great point. 90% of games have samey movement or controls now and the medium suffers because of it. I love playing retro games I'm unfamiliar with because there's some amount of getting to know the game, learn its controls and see how those interact with the mechanics. Now few developers give a shit about how their game feels since they're more concerned with the graphical fidelity, bullshit story or trying to stuff as many microtransactions as possible into the game. Keep in mind I'm referring to bigger studios and publishers, not indies.

Playing the recently leaked XBLA version of Goldeneye with a DualShock 3 spoofed as a 360 controller. Playing it with a more modern control scheme than the N64 makes it feel too easy. Even easier when you play with that KB+M build of the 360 emulator. The clunkiness of the N64 controls really makes the game.

>>7420637
Yeah, I’d rather be entertained by something faulty but unique than be bored by something polished but mediocre.

>>7426631
They all suck outside of the mainstream ones. PS2 has better lesser known ones.

>>7426673
Koudelka sucks. Play Parasite Eve instead.

>>7437303
Parasite Eve sucks. Play Sweet Home instead.

>>7437357
Sweet Home sucks. Rub your dick against a cheese grater instead.

>>7435159
If the games follow the same genre they should use the same controls. They could improve it on new ones, but changing it would ruin
>>7437036
>The clunkiness of the N64 controls really makes the game.
The new controls used on Goldeneye 64 was a mistake. If they have copied the same controls from Doom and Quake the game would be much better

>>7438345
I mean, the XBLA version feels great to play. But the game just isn't balanced for a smooth control scheme, so it's way too easy.

>>7440425
>so it's way too easy
Better controls makes the game easier to play. But there has to be more difficulty too. The game was originally easy that way to adapt to the shit controls. But if the game was nearly difficult as traditional FPS on PC you would need the same traditional controls. If there was an online mode with all the controls available. The traditional one would win over the original one

Silent Hill 1... still my favorite game on the PS1.

>>7433205
did you srsly defend modern vidya?

it's dead jim.

>>7437514
What's the point of this image? Games have inventories? For every game that has something like this you could counter-pick three that don't.

>>7424978
you're doing the console version of going up to a steam train enthusiast and going "don't you know electric trains are much more practical?"

>>7426631
Overblood

>>7427007
>>7427023
This guy knows what he's talking about.
To add onto this, modern gaming has indeed become standardized, but not because of standardized hardware. It's instead because companies like microsoft, nintendo, sony, epic, and other AAA studios have been buying out much smaller studios and setting them to work on larger, less independent, more mass marketed, lowest common denominator products. We now release games for the normie audience as well, and they eat shit up like EA sports and marvel movies without a second thought, so really it's no wonder that the industry suffers. The market has also splayed in the favor of these larger companies, because now we have developments like "games as a service", which requires a large amount of money to back, something that's detrimental for every games developer that isn't just shitting their indie games out to be forgotten on steam. I'd also argue that these technological advances have outpaced, slightly, the advancements of the tools used to construct them, meaning that now to reach the standard of graphics in the current year, it requires much more effort, and money. AA studios are still around, but they're not making much of that shit anymore, now they're chained to the beck and call of some cackling, out of touch marketing department. Especially when you consider that the maximum amount lots of people are willing to pay for games is 60 bucks, and 60 bucks in the 80's is more than 60 bucks now, it's no wonder that, even with a much larger market share than back then, smaller developers struggle to stay afloat while unbacked by larger publishers, without resorting to putting out a half-baked, or less consumer friendly product.
>>7425610
>>7426561
Seems like a samefag, but regardless, you're both retarded.

>>7420526
I really miss Tank control 3D Platformers like Tomb Raider and Croc 1. Nobody makes those anymore, not even indie devs. That is a big part of the appeal of 5th gen to me, many different styles of games that you don't see anymore and will most likely never see again.

>>7445834
I'd be beside myself if someone released a modern game that played like Bug! on the Saturn.