/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7392279
just turn down the sharpness

On something like Genesis you can just use composite or s-video output into your monitor to restore dithering

>>7392279
>So do PVMs really look that "good"?

Don't fall for the PVMeme. A late model Trinitron will look >95% as good for pennies on the dollar.

And PVMemes are an aesthetic eyesore designed for a work environment. It screams virgin or inadequate to my wife.

>>7392494
PVMs have the benefit of better build quality, top selection of tubes, over-engineered circuitry, and (usually) a running counter of how many hours they have been in use. But they are not made as large as a good consumer or large commercial unit. Best buys, if you have the space, are still the 28" or bigger wide screen HD CRTs.

>>7392494
Only guys with a regular crt can fuck your wife eh? Should have told her last week.

>>7392279
Let’s play spot the difference. This is super ghouls and ghosts on my Sony PVM 2130

The only benefit of PVMs is their boxy build makes TATE a breeze. Otherwise its nonsense. Every single PVM I've seen in person puts thick ass window blinds over the image and its always some 13 inch screen the person plays with their nose to the glass while sitting on the floor Indian style like a little kid and tells me how this is prime gaming. Consumer TVs are way more authentic and you can sit on a couch.

>>7392521
And this somewhat the same image on a Sony KV21x5u. /vr/ is right about calling them Pvmemes lol

>>7392279
Yes, you lose the dithering effect when using RGB on genesis games. But the alternative is not fucking worth it. Genesis has by far the worst composite video of any console to ever exist. Everything looks blurry, like it's smeared in vaseline, and you get these horrible jailbar effects (pic-related) that are especially apparent on blue backgrounds and white/transparent/dithered things like the sanic waterfalls.

>>7392510
>Best buys, if you have the space, are still the 28" or bigger wide screen HD CRTs.
HD CRTs are trash for old games. They don't handle 240p properly, and they still do digital processing and upscaling of low-res video that adds lag and so on. Honestly there's really no reason to ever use an HD CRT. For 240p/480i, use an SDTV. For 480p and above, use a flat-panel HDTV.

Agreed about the larger consumer CRTs being the best value. You can still get them for free, and if you get something like a trinitron WEGA, you can get component inputs (and pair with an RGB/component transcoder for consoles that don't do component directly). PVMs haven't been worth it for many, many years now. And while I enjoy my professional monitors, the size can be a downside. Most people only have dinky 13" ones. Mine is 20", and even that is pushing it. Overall the 27-32" trinitrons are great.

>>7392578
>HD CRTs are trash for old games. They don't handle 240p properly,
Depends entirely on the TV.

>and they still do digital processing and upscaling of low-res video that adds lag and so on.
Depends on the model.

Lots of variation out there, you can't simply generalize like that. And earlier scalers could be extremely fast, because instead of CPUs running programs they were ASICs.

>>7392620
Yeah, it depends on the model. The dividing line being that multisync professional monitors are good, and consumer HD CRTs, like what I'm talking about, suck. There is zero benefit to using an HD CRT for old vidya, and plenty of downsides.

>>7392628
*depending in the CRT

>>7392578
HD CRTs are ideal for the PS2, GCN, and Xbox. Those systems are such a mess that they benefit from a jack of all trades, master of none display or else you start missing out on features.

>>7392620
Which ones don't do digital processing?

the longer the tv, the smaller the dick

>>7392494
you can still find PVMs for free retard

>>7392279
>I've been playing Genesis games on a newer CRT lately,
No you haven't

>>7392415
I turned it to the absolute lowest setting and it didn't change anything enough to blur the pixels
>>7392557
I guess for what it's worth, I wasn't really telling the truth about playing a Genesis with the TV I mentioned. I'm actually playing Sonic Jam on the Saturn (with composite) and I've never actually plugged my Genesis into this TV. I get those bad rainbow bands using my Genesis on some of my other CRTs, but not all of them.
>>7392757
Despite questioning them in my original post, I've still wanted one for the novelty of it, and I've been having trouble finding one for free. Tried calling a hospital recently, and the maintenance guy seemed happy to help but had to redirect me to someone who actually had the authority to give something like that away, and she never called me back. Any advice besides the usual "call a bunch of places and ask" stuff?

>>7392494
>And PVMemes are an aesthetic eyesore designed for a work environment. It screams virgin or inadequate to my wife.
imagine deciding what possessions to own in your own home based on normie opinions

>>7393000
imagine dying a virgin because you chose showing pictures of your manchindcave to strangers on the internet over having taste and sex

>>7392279
PVMs are for people who like the emulated look but also get the benefit of less lag and better colours, I just prefer a consumer set because I like the softer look

>>7392557
I guess CRT shader are better for mega drive at least

>>7392521

Looks like you have to tune colors and sharpness on your PVM a little bit.

>>7392530

That`s nice.

>>7393000
>normie
Wasted quads, you have to go back

>>7393856
>quads

woodgrain consumer tv ftw, fuck pvm's

I invested in buying as many kinds of CRTs as possible. You can get them for dirt cheap and resell them for hundreds because you soys will buy it all up.

>>7393856
>cool quads
>i have a triple digit iq
You're making this so easy, I'm actually getting worse.

>>7392737
Lots of analog HDTVs. Mitsubishi Diamondvision sets for instance, also quite a few Sony's. You have to look at the individual spec sheet for each screen.

>>7392557
>that SOUL
See kids, this is how the games were meant to be played

>>7393974
Yup. I'm sitting on a bunch of pvm/bvm monitors only to resell to retards in the future. I got them for free and my parents have a bunch of empty garage space. I store stuff at their place and it stays out of their way and mine.

>>7392557
>Genesis has by far the worst composite video of any console to ever exist
The toaster NES has the best. Absolutely crystalline.

>>7392731
That's probably the best use case for HD CRTs, but fact is, 480p is handled just fine by LCDs. It's far less important.

>>7392494
>And PVMemes are an aesthetic eyesore designed for a work environment. It screams virgin or inadequate to my wife.
Why are leftists so sex-obsessed and why do virgin men make them so angry?

>>7394990
I'd take an HD CRT over an LCD. OLED is where it really renders them truly obsolete.

>>7392557
The SNES can vary depending on the model/PCB revision. In general I haven't found SNESes to have as good composite out as the toaster NES but it's still much above the MD.

>>7392557
The dirtiest composite video I've ever seen was on an IBM XT with a CGA card.

PVM fetishism is consumerist fetishism, end of story

nobody played games on those

I played games on a Commodore 1084s monitor as a younger person and I'm not sure if that is better or worse than PVMs but I was the only person I know to do it back in the day

it was not common AT ALL to play video games on a high-quality tv set

going back and trying to be part of retro stuff by viewing it through a lens that it wasnt viewed through at the time is silly.

>>7395204
I used to use one of these a lot. Yeah it was pretty big and had a nice screen area, but shit was RF only and it didn't even have a comb filter, just a shitty bandpass one so everything was full of awful rainbow stripes. The picture was not very tight either and it had really fat scanlines. Pretty much the bare minimum of a consumer TV set.

And yeah, you can see what the seller is trying to do here. I know this particular model a little too well and can assure you it's not worth that money.

>>7395227
thats exactly what im saying nobody had these great sets back then, nobody! part of the lcd revolution is that lcds are much more consistent per unit

most of my greatest years of gaming I used a panasonic 27" tv that was absolutely top of the fucking line when it was bought. 2 years or so into its life it got struck by lightning, and we had an old school tv repairman the type which you cant find anymore fix it, and though it worked perfectly for 2 more decades it always had this zone where there was a grass green-yellow blob lightly overlaid over the image.

>>7395204
>nobody played games on those
Hell, they weren't even made on those.

>>7395245
i bet a lot of the best nes/nes/genssis/tg16 games were made on some fucking ghetto ass shit

He's right you know

>"The picture on this new HDTV is incredibly crisp and clear."
>"That's not how it's meant to look though, it's not how the developers intended".
>"The picture on this old CRT is incredibly crisp and clear."
>"oh my god here's my thousands of dollars of money where is the nearest rest room I have passion fluids coming out multiple holes".

>>7395204
Yes, you're right. pvm obsession is consumerism, but collectionist hobbies usually revolve around consumerism.
Unless you have your original hardware from childhood, and granted many of us do, you need to do a decent amount of consuming to gather the shit you'll need to play.
Sure, you can emulate and have the same, if not better experiences. You can emulate in various ways for convenience.
You could emulate on pc with a crt and real controllers via adapters. You could emulate on a modern monitor with filters. You could emulate on a wii using a crt or lcd. You could emulate in a way that improves performance of the games. But authenticity flies out the window with most of these, which retrofags seem to care about.
there seems to be a subsection of these analog collectors that want to maximize their experience. The audiophile guys that use insane gear to listen to original pressing vinyl records. Photographers that spend big money to buy niche film cameras. Boomers that use high end video equipment to play kids games.
It's consumerism but it seems to be a small part of the hobby. The thing is these consumerist faggots are also the most vocal and exhibitionist, as they use the stuff as status symbols and the up votes as just more stuff to consume.

>>7395273
I'd bet money that "scanlines" were never supposed to be a thing. They used 240p as a hack of 480i because it reduced flicker but still looked right on your average television since the phosphor glow hid the fact that the set was displaying only one field over and over. Had consumer sets of the era looked like PVMs and displayed black bars across the image they probably would have stuck with 480i, flicker be damned.

>>7395314
Zelda's Manual

>>7395329
You have to put your nose to the glass to see that. That's not how people play.

>>7395329
Zelda's box.

>>7395335
Every time

>>7395353
Enjoy your 8 inch $200 Ikegami.

>>7393000
I still have a Dreamcast and PS2 hooked up through HDMI converters, and a Genesis mini. Normies and women don't care at all or just think it's cool to play games they played when they were kids. It's only once you go full autist having 25 year old TVs that weigh 500 pounds or midget medical monitors hooked up so you can play 30+ year old games at peak visual quality that people will (rightfully) shame you.

>>7395442
>that people will (rightfully) shame you
Do you really think anybody cares?
If you do it’s obvious that you have zero social interactions

>>7392526

>>7396567
Gotta admit, I have no idea if you're agreeing with me or insulting me.

What's the consensus on these gargantuan fuckers?

>>7397202
projection tvs are absolute trash, dont let the big screen fool you

>>7395341
Anon... you should read the manual.

>>7397247
Box takes precedence

>>7397202
>Shittiest contrast ratio of all the techs
>Worst motion blur
>Worst display lag
>Horrible viewing angle
>Reflects room light
>Plagued by image retention

Rear projection was a stop-gap for people who felt a 500lbs 40" CRT was pushing it.

>>7396567
Neither. I was replying to >>7394797 I have no idea how your post number got in there.
FWIW, I consider PVMemes to have almost no practical application for gaming. An arcade CRT in a wooden box is better and cheaper, can easily be rotated and almost impossible to find in sizes so small they need to be placed on a side table next to a childs bed.

why are consumer tv fans always shit talking pvm/bvms? are you just sour grapers or somethin? just enjoy your tv

>>7392279

You'll only get the fake transparency on a shit TV. It's not worth having a shit TV just for that one effect.

>>7398068
I think it’s just shitposters in general, everything has to be like console war shit
It just gets so tiresome that no discussion ever happens anymore

>>7398068
>why are consumer tv fans always shit talking pvm/bvms?

Are you really umplying it never happens the other way around on here?

>>7398068
>why are sunk cost copers full of cope?
It pairs well with zoom

>>7398068
Probably because PVMs are expensive and only slightly better
I really like the size and quality personally, those cheap tiny chink kitchen crts are dogshit, and having a small monitor is nice. While it is boxy, it's only slightly bigger than some of those fucking PC monitors with the huge backs

>>7397353
The Box image is too small to perceive any detail...

Test

>>7398384
????

I'm not sure if this whole thread is a cope or not. On one hand, I agree with a lot of the points being made, but on the other; I really like the professional monitors I have.
Some of you guys just seem to be reacting to the popularity of broadcast monitors.
I agree that they're not worth the money they're often sold at online, but I haven't had a hard time finding them for cheap still. I think the features and ease of servicing are unparalleled by consumer sets, even if you can be satisfied with the image quality of a consumer set. Anything less than 20" is not worth using for gaming, but I have used them as decor. Professional monitors look much cooler in my opinion, which may not matter to some, but if something is going to take up a significant amount of space on a table it bette looks cool.
They're still often cheap. Theyre usually much better taken care of than a consumer set. They're much easier to work on. They're much easier to use as they have many more input options.

>>7398525
>I'm not sure if this whole thread is a cope or not.
If it was it still was after your post

>>7395442
lol normies don't fucking care that you have an old tv. In fact there's still quite a lot of normalfaggot homes I've been in that have at least 1 CRT lying around somewhere.

>>7392494
>Don't fall for the PVMeme. A late model Trinitron will look >95% as good for pennies on the dollar.
This is not true in the US since PVMs are the only way to get RGB there. Mostly the same in Japan since consumer RGB was rare even if it did exist.

ANYWAYS, dm me if you want to buy a pvm or bvm

>>7392494
>It screams virgin or inadequate to my wife

>>7399451
>in the US since PVMs are the only way to get RGB there

>>7399648
Aren't all CRTs that support that shitty flat-screens though?

>>7398068
Probably because PVMfags are annoying cultists who make it their mission to denigrate anyone who doesn't use a PVM.

>>7399653
There's a lot of enormous flat Trinitrons from 2004 - 2006 that are flat and have component. Not all are shitty.

>>7399673
But flatscreen CRTs always have fucked geometry.

>>7399745
Any CRT can have bad or good geometry.

>>7399616
>my wife is an anime pillow

>>7399648
>RGB2COMP
>RGB2NOTRGB

>crts have amazing contrast
Ok I want to get squared on this. I dug up one of our family's old monitors and a tv, and honestly neither of them are that great. The bright colors are nice but the darkest anything gets is a kind of bluish gray haze regardless of fiddling with settings. Is this a defect or do we just have shitty brands?(viewsonic, sharp)

>>7399745
>But flatscreen CRTs always have fucked geometry.

>>7400329
>Converts to Rec 601 SD standard
>No frame buffer = no latency
>Looks just as good

>>7392279
>I've been playing Genesis games on a newer CRT lately, and noticed the dithering effects don't work to create fake transparency like on my other TVs. You can clearly see each pixel. So do PVMs really look that "good"? I'm usually pretty happy with composite on an old cheap CRT to sort of blend things together and utilize the "half pixel" effect that a lot of sprite artists used
SD content has a sweet spot for tube sharpness at around 600 TVL where the visual fidelity tops out and effects like sprite blending start breaking down. Get a set that has a tube rated in that range and it'll be pure gold.

>>7401226
yeah PVMfaggots won't like to admit that the things are just too sharp for their own good and the best displays are a higher end shadow mask TV. crisp enough without being so sharp as to ruin the blending and blur of the graphics.

>>7401229
>PVMfaggots

They will defend the shutters over their sprites.

>>7401239
Used to have a Proscan 27" (older model than this one though) and I can attest it was the best fucking TV for retro games ever made. My toaster NES looked fantastic on it. Only downside was the screen edges being a little fuzzy since it was a 100 degree tube.

>>7392494
>And PVMemes are an aesthetic eyesore designed for a work environment. It screams virgin or inadequate to my wife.
If the prices weren't completely fucked up, I'd suggest the XBR Pro line of PVMs and Profeel-likes such as the 1271Q and 1390 as a counterpoint. They also happen to all be in the sharpness range that's ideal for 240p/480i content.

>>7401229
>yeah PVMfaggots won't like to admit that the things are just too sharp for their own good and the best displays are a higher end shadow mask TV. crisp enough without being so sharp as to ruin the blending and blur of the graphics.
Again, some PVMs are actually ideal for pre-6th gen /vr/ like pic related, but their prices have been memed to the point that you're better off just shooting for high-end consumer sets these days.

>>7395245
>white socks with dress shoes
>smoking in the office
>6 ft wide windows completely closed

I want to go there.

>>7399451
>This is not true in the US since PVMs are the only way to get RGB there. Mostly the same in Japan since consumer RGB was rare even if it did exist.
A handful of high-end consumer sets like Profeels and some of the earlier XBRs will also support RGB video. Pretty sure that B&Os sold in the US also supported it and even had SCART ports to boot.

>>7400360
Little chance two decent quality tubes fucked up in exactly the same way. You probably just ruined your eyes with too much fortnite. Anyway, good LCDs have had higher contrast than typical CRTs for several years now. That doesn't magically make the amazing contrast CRTs have always had any worse. Unless you're a zoomie, in which case it means they haven't aged well and are artificially difficult to watch.

>>7395040
Leftists are the virgins. Also, the older you get, the more you will realize your youth is for fucking beautiful young bitches, anything else becomes a waste of time and unsatisfying. TL;DR fuck these pretty hoes while you can

>>7402187
>fuck these pretty hoes while you can
Yeah, but some generations don't get that option. Imagine being a young adult in the late 60's. Sure, free love. Also free lice, fleas, every type of STD and all the pubic hair you can eat, which was none since they didn't shower. Imagine the smell.
Millennials and zoomies face similar problems. If I were a 30 something and 80% of the womyn in my area were vile "body positive" feminazis I might be driven to drown my sorrows in phytoestrogen based beverages that turn me gay and make me more attractive to others of my kind as well.
And zoomers have gone full circle and are embracing their inner crusty, literally becoming their hippie grandparents. Unshaven, unkempt, unwashed and unclean, I'd rather be a fortnite incel than let my cock anywhere one of those greasy sacks of puss that has more fishing hooks in it than Andy Griffiths tackle box.
And this isn't a new thing. Have you seen pictures of the hideous she-beasts from circa 1900? Even if they hadn't banned booze it would have still been impossible to drink them pretty.