/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7397837
lmao wrpgs are glitchy ugly trash you cope machine

>>7397842
>glitchy ugly
Always more detailed and interesting than the same superdeformed anime garbage you see in JPRGs.

And of course it was a bit glitchier than console baby games, the PC market in the West was almost always a moving target with a broad variety of hardware to support, sound cards, video cards, etc. This was often the fault of the PC user for not being able to set up a proper environment for each of their programs, and wasn't a real issue for experienced users. Most of the software that came out was nearly bug-free actually, because of better testing and the unavailability of universal Internet.

>>7397857
theyre shit. OOT is better

>>7397859
Actually pretty much nothing beats Ultima VII to this day. Even if you're a zoomer you should try it.

>>7397837
Simple, Japanese never colonized or traveled, and only time they went out they razed Nanking and bayonetted babies and did unspeakable atrocities in Unit 731 (compared to it, Auschwitz was a funpark).

That way they never met other cultures like Europeans so it reflects in their degenerate art which is soulless, brainless, tasteless, and will never stand up to far superior European works.

>>7397837
>Have the Japanese ever made an RPG where you can pick up and move shit around?
Shenmue comes to mind. Journos hated it on 3 calling it "activity overload" or some dumb shit.

>>7397837
Moving physics object around makes a game have soul? I thought it was by having a compelling story, setting, and characters all implemented with care and creativity. One genre is not inherently (or on average) more "soulful" than another, and the differences are kind of surface level and inconsistent anyway

Japanese RPGs tend to have more emphasis on stats with a linear story

Western RPGs tend to have more emphasis on dialog choices and open exploration

but those are just general differences and you can find blatant exceptions to the rule for either genre, where a game that's technically a WRPG feels and plays more like a JRPG and vice versa. basically OP is an overly simplistic divisive idiot and/or troll like 99% of 4chan and the only reason I ever come back here is out of absolute boredom

>>7397859
OoT is barely an RPG brainlet, it's more of an Action/Adventure game with some RPG elements sprinkled in

>>7397837
Gameplay is better than jrpgs

>>7397837
>Soul
>Western rpg
,nice bait anon. There's literally nothing as souless and lacking everything that makes a game good or worthwhile. Also, every wrpg ever is literally the exact same game, they are so unimaginative they could all take place in the same universe . Pure gargabe for plebs

>>7397857
>detailed and interesting
>Wrpgs
>Interesting

>>7398737
Maybe I'm being dishonest, but the most popular rpgs in Japan are Western

>>7397837
Morrowind and FFX, for instance, are both amazing. They just take different approaches to things and have different goals. Where Morrowind is more of a fantasy life simulator, FFX is much more interested telling it's story and being more "gamey." having 100 side quests, killing a random NPC to take his house, and hording junk are a distraction from that story. Morrowind lets you write the story, FFX tells you the story. Both have their merits and they're difficult to compare. It'd be like asking "Why is Doom so much better than Operation Flashpoint?" It's practically apples and oranges.

>>7398767
In other words, in FFX the game is the Dungeon Master, in Morrowind you are the Dungeon Master.

>>7397837

There was a post this week that claimed that Western developers are not good with abstractions, but I have a question why jrpgs are not as abstract as WRPGs

>>7398795
Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it.

>>7397837
>Why do western RPGs have so much soul compared to JRPGs?
Because you are biased. Soul is a buzzword, and you're making it fit your bias. Simple as that.

>>7397837
Soulposting is making me have a pavlonian dislike of many things I do like because mindless retards like OP keep spamming this meaningless term.

>>7397837

>>7398767
>Morrowind and FFX, for instance, are both amazing
FFX worked out of the box and gives the same experience today as it did at launch.

Morrowind, as is the tradition of all elder scrolls games, was an unplayable mess at launch. You would get routinely stuck in doors or wall, sometimes you fell though the bottom of the world, and your saved file would be corrupted if you looted the wrong pair of boots from a corpse. They followed the CRPG tradition. of "release it now, unfuck it later". Within a month or two it was playable, and after years of patches and fan mods it became a fantastic game.

>>7397837

WRPGs are trying to replicate table-top settings and later movies.

JRPGS are trying to replicate arcade games and then later anime.

>>7397837
They are for a completely different audience. They are were things from nerds to nerds. The majority of such games, same as PC gaming of 80s-early00s in general is something in heart alien for console players, since consoles are just toys for normies. And mostly to teenagers and kids, yea. PC games were mostly for nerds - students of technical universities.

am i not a real gamer™, if I play snes jrpgs at 2x speed? I like most of the games i play, but i see no reason to go slow, it always feels like these games were supposed to run like this

>>7398938
JRPGs are some outdated 80s CRPGs casual to death with all fun stuff removed and incel visual novel inserted. Japan never understood why encounters even were in western games, when they copied them.

>>7398712
>Moving physics object around makes a game have soul?
Not by itself. But it massively helps to create an interactive world.

JRPGs aren't interactive. It's a puppet show on a stage.

>>7398895
>allowing people to ruin things for you
Sounds like a YOU problem, not a ME problem. Heh.

>>7397837
I think each audiences are looking for different things.
The japanese in general are more sensitive to the appearance of things. Whenever you buy a product from Japan, there are good chances it's going to be polished in all kinds of ways, sometimes to the detriment of features vs competitors. The box will have a special texture, there will be tons of packaging, it's going to be nice to look at, it'll have a satisfying weight, etc.

Now, when it comes to videogames, their games often tend to be a superficial experience rather than a toy you can really "play" with or even break. Users ruining their own experience by trying things is something many japanese companies will want to avoid, in gaming or in other industries. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but in the context of a RPG, it tends to give you worlds that don't really have a detailed foundation. The lore of your average JRPG is kinda obscure, with a wide horizon, and lots of things that are cool to look at on a superficial level (e.g. giant crystal in the desert, flying castle, etc.), but little depth or explanations. There are rarely historical details about the world, and the characters of that world rarely wonder, ask questions or learn things about the world they inhabit. It is magical, and everyone is content to just accept that without wondering much about it. I'm not saying all WRPGs have good world building, but in the case of JRPGs, it seems there is certainly a trend toward neglecting it, or rather, putting the focus on the experience of the world at an immediate "sensory" or superficial level.

It's funny how the Souls game have a "western" artstyle, and yet, you can still tell a mile away that they aren't western games at all.

>>7397837
>Why do western RPGs have so much soul compared to JRPGs?
Also, don't forget that you are the target audience of WRPGs, but not JRPGs.

>>7398746
Do Japs have the equivalent of a westen Otaku who only likes western stuff because it's so kawai?

>>7399786
No. Instead, with each passing decades, more and more western things take root in Japan.
Clothing, music, PC gaming, Amazon, Netflix...
Japanese people borrow whatever they want from western culture, but no Japanese feels some kind of dedication to it. It isn't exotic the same way anime is for your West Virginia otaku, because western culture goes much deeper into japanese society than japanese culture goes in our societies.

>>7397842
5G radiation really is taking its toll.

>>7399760
Hmm... Come to think of it, I don't think the Japanese ever produced any game with a cerebral storyline or setting at all. Most just have fancy graphics or insane twists just to divert your attention away from the knee-deep world.

>>7397837
>Why do they have so much soul?
>Posts one of the small handful that has soul.
Real answer, passion and creativity. But plenty of JRPGs have that too.
It's like Sturgeon's Law 90% of anything is garbage, or as /vr/ would say, soulless.

>>7398737
>zoomie zoomsalot can't play a game unless the characters are superdeformed

>>7399786
I know Japanese people who play mostly CRPGs.

>>7399760
Dunno about polish. They all feel janky in the core. And they are linear game with no game design anyway.

>>7397837
Western RPGs have multiple ways to approach situations, you can play character abilities off of each other and set up complex traps for encounters. IE: send in the tank guns blazing, kite them, throw slowing spells on enemies after baiting them into poison traps, set the environment on fire, etc.

In JRPG’s you just select attacks from a menu.

>>7397916
Asians in general have insectoid brains and are unable to process emotions the same way we are.

>>7398891
>>7398895
>There’s no such thing as soul my fellow narwhals, The Amazing Atheist told me so before shoving a banana up his arse!

>>7399760
>The lore of your average JRPG is kinda obscure, with a wide horizon, and lots of things that are cool to look at on a superficial level (e.g. giant crystal in the desert, flying castle, etc.), but little depth or explanations. There are rarely historical details about the world, and the characters of that world rarely wonder, ask questions or learn things about the world they inhabit.

Dark Souls in a nutshell

>>7399760
Does any Japanese game have in-game lore? Ultima had books, same with Elder Scrolls, many others too.

>>7398921
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, MY SOULFUL GAME HAS NO PROBLEMS!!!!!

>>7397837
i dont think u know what soul is. games made after 1995 have absolutely none.

>>7397859
OoT is one of the worst “games” ever made

>>7399786
USA A-OK

>>7400617
He never played the shitfests FF Tactics, Xenogears or OoT

>>7397837
It's an invalid comparison.
JRPGs aren't RPGs.

>>7397837
western rpgs have roots in tabletop rpgs, all about interacting with a story and making a world your own.

jrpgs have their roots in the console simplification of western RPGs. the mission statement of dragon quest was to simplify western tabletop rpgs into something that could be enjoyed with a Dpad, and 2 buttons, by a 10 year old.

thats not to say they're bad games, but their roots literally come from cutting out those complex assets of western RPGs

>>7399786
Other replies talked about westernization, but Japan also has actual Westaboos who painstakingly recreate cowboy stuff.
Repro Americana is also a bigger thing in Japan than in the US.

>>7397837
imagine not being able to find the soul in both

>>7402989
99% of them are the most plastic, soulless, and dumb things. It is like a Chinese toy from the 90s.

>>7401501
This.

>>7400507
Well that explains why white people are cucks.

>>7397837
>WRPG's that fans of JRPG's should try
Anachronox
Secret of Evermore
South Park: The Stick of Truth
Pier Solar
Barkley: Shut Up and Jam Gaiden

>JRPG's that fans of WRPG's should try
Final Fantasy XII
FromSoft games
Jap-developed Wizardry games
Lost Odyssey
Breath of Fire 1 and 2

Feel free to add anything I'm missing.

>>7404342
>Final Fantasy XII
Jesus. Why would you rec that.

>>7404273
Every race has their issues. White people’s sin is excessive altruism.

You think once western nations are majority brown this extreme social liberalism will continue? Fuck no.

>>7404445
I felt that way as well until I tried it. I did enjoy it. Not as much as Morrowind but I can see why it got a lot of love back in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq85h7oHWv0&list=PL3BCE01906737B73D&index=3

>>7404445
Oh wait, 12? I'm not too sure about that one.

>>7404257
i know animu fags want this so much, but the thing that kills me about this pic is the appearances. Left looks like someone who would become a thief. Hes a bald ugly loser with nothing going in life except intelligence (big head), so of course he would be a thief. Right looks like some K Pop idol male model. Why would a pretty boy go on an adventure? Why would you wear a cosplay outfit on an adventure?
>dude shut up, animu is so aesthetic, and you westerners want everything ugly
No, thats you being unable to see the beauty in something practical and realistic, while soullessly turning everything into some generic anime real doll like a borg

wrpgs r trash
the only one that got it right was fallout because the time limit really gave you a sense of urgency about the world. the others r like
>the burger is trash but these fries oh man they're amazing. go fetch a mushroom in the middle of the forest so I can make an antidote for my daughter who was poisoned by bandits and this shit is in no way related to whatever

>>7404342
>not listing Arcanum for GOAT WRPG’s
>not listing Star Ovean the Second Story for GOAT JRPG’s

Yikes, oof, cringe, sweetie no, etc

>>7404723
>Why would a pretty boy go on an adventure? Why would you wear a cosplay outfit on an adventure?
Asians give more importance to appearance than we do. Watch korean dramas, every guy looks like the same 23 years old prince, no matter the profession of his character. The chief of the police department will be played by a 39 years old actor that looks like a university student because of how much surgery he's had.

Didn't the new ghostbuster movie get banned in China? Not because it was progressive, but because the actresses were simply too ugly?

It kinda goes with >>7399760
The goal isn't to create a living world that's all tied together and could work by itself, the goal is to give the consumer a pleasant experience akin to visiting an art gallery or listening to a song.

Look this guy has a huge sword with a hole in the middle of it. Why is it so big? Who made it? Is he the only person in the world with such a specific and detailed sword? Don't ask, even the creators don't know.

>>7404819
Every now and then there is an ugly or different-looking actor who becomes famous there.

and the West is not so different

>>7404826
>and the West is not so different
That's true, especially on TV and movies, it is a big no no to show anyone that's below 8/10, especially if they need to get laid at some point.

>>7404445
Because it has a lot more in-common with WRPG's, at-least in terms of combat and world design.

>>7404826
No, its plenty different. There isn't a single piece of modern western media that doesn't puts grotesque mutt creatures center stage while celebrating the mentally and physically ugly as hard as possible for the sake of not letting consumers feel left out.

Which is exactly why I love WRPGs. I love the gritty ugliness of reality. None of this mickey mouse cartoon bullshit. Why should I have to suffer looking at cute shit? Darkness is the default of this wretched world and I loathe the japs for pretending otherwise with their pathetic fantasies.

>>7404819
>Watch korean dramas, every guy looks like the same 23 years old prince, no matter the profession of his character.
And it's strange. Same with Kpop dancing. None of it comes off as real.

American porno suffers from this as well. Oddly I find JAV has the right blend of storyline and realism from the girls.

>>7404880
>Darkness is the default of this wretched world and I loathe the japs for pretending otherwise with their pathetic fantasies.

We cucked them too hard after WW2

>>7402989
I vote BoF VI remake for Switch

because asians are insectoids with no imaginations, while whites are creative and have souls
inb4 go back to pol
I don't even go there, but google "why are asians not creative". It's a thing that everyone notices
it's the reason the west has more scientific discoveries, industrialized first, got democracy first, etc. We can think outside the box and japs can't

>>7398712
>muh story!11
Jesus Christ. Only thing that really matters is gameplay. GAMEplay in a GAME. Get it? If you're unhappy there isn't enough pretentious wankery to appeal to your narcissistic pretenses to being an intellectual, read a fucking book.
Gameplay > Audio-visual presentation >>>>>>>>> whatever inane shit gets passed off as "story"

>>7404902
It’s apparent even in their language which is nowhere as poetic and expressive as European languages.

I mean look at Italian Sonnets or the works of Shakespeare and compare them to shit like hiakus. Look at how simplistic Japanese painting is compared to Michelangelo’s works.

Don’t worry about reddïtors screeching about le /pol/ either, speak your truth king.

>>7404902
>while whites are creative and have souls
Through out the 2000s, Americans did nothing BUT copy anime. Deviantart and Tumblr were westerners trying to copy anime. Professional western cartoons in the 2000s were anime rip offs: Teen Titans, Ben 10, Avatar, just discount anime. Even today, there are still generic anime rip off shows like Castlevania and Blood of Zeus.
How do you explain this?

>>7404925
>Look at how simplistic Japanese painting is compared to Michelangelo’s works.
Japanese wood block paintings ended up aging better because they are aesthetic and cant be replicated irl. If you dont think wood blocks look beautiful, then you are pleb filtered. Renaissance painting was people trying to emulate photographs. Ironic that a board that does nothing but shit on emulators, praises Western paintings, which were up until the 1800s, just trying to emulate what photos would be.

>>7404934
Blood of Zeus have better anime story than Castlevania and RWBY itself, irony.

>>7404971
they are shitty western shows that try to be anime. if you cant see this, i dont know what to tell you. When i watch them, all i see is a stupid gaijin seething over not being born japanese, and Its so easy to name a handful of westerns shows that rip off asians. Black Swan, Inception, Taken, Hunger Games. I just dont see how people can say Asians are less creative than westerners, when all westerners have been doing the past 20 years is stealing directly form asians

>>7398910
reminds me of the short story Vastation by Laird Barron

>>7404946
You realize there were more art styles in the West besides Realism, right?

>>7404913
When umvc3 was coming out they said you wouldn't get fan favourites like Megaman but it still had good gameplay. How well do you think that went over?

>>7404997
You act like anime has never borrowed from Biblical themes or Greek/Roman mythology

>>7405026
Up until the 1800s, 95% of Western Paintings were realism and would be replace by photography. Then in the 1900s, westerners sperged out on shit like Cubism and Picasso shit. Even in the 1900s, Westerns were copiers. The artistic feats done by Disney animators were mostly them relying on reference models. They relied on references for everything and its Japanese animators who can draw things from imagination and understood construction

>>7405046
Whats your point? All of these western movies from the last 20 years have done nothing but stole from Asians. And if you think every anime is stolen from the bible or greek mythology, then you are an idiot, because anime like Dragon Ball is based on Journey to the West

>>7405046
>borrowed
thats what you called what Hunger Games did with Battle Royale? No, this was soulless holywood makers stealing from asians because dumb white westerners freak out over seeing an asian in a movie and are too stupid to read subtitles.
I cant believe you fags actually shill for hollywood

>>7405072
>Westerns were copiers.
Imagine thinking this.

>>7405106
That image is literally copying. Its a westerner trying to replicate real life that did not understand perspective. All of those figures were attempt at anatomical humans and the result is it looks like someone copy and pasted a picture of someone and put it on the canvas. Want more example of copying? How about the Halo. The halo was stolen directly from Buddhist art.
Western paintings until impressionism were people trying to emulate paintings. Thats why we dont see portrait painting anymore, because the concept was made obsolete by photography.

Shit on Japanese woodblocks all you want (because youre a pleb), but Japanese woodblocks had aesthetical rules in composition. And it took creativity because it wasnt people trying to carbon copy real life like westerners

>>7405134
>All of those figures were attempt at anatomical humans
You could at least pretend to argue in good faith.
>Shit on Japanese woodblocks all you want (because youre a pleb)
Japanese woodblocks are great, as is most Japanese art, I just don't subscribe to your revisionist take that Western art was all a defective camera until the 20th Century.

>>7405106
>eat bad rye bread
>trip out
>try to make a depiction of what you saw

>>7405134
You're just repeating globohomoisms.

>>7405097
No one is shilling for Hollywood dipshit, stop moving goal posts.

PS: 98% of modern anime is trope filled trash with the same copy pasted soulless bug person art style.

>>7405146
I cant tell if you are the person im originally replying to or not. But i have to disagree. Look at the foot placement in the picture you posted. Those feets perspectives do not align with the ground. Its literally the result of someone directly copying a reference model then trying to put it on an environment that does not share the same perspective. Like i said, westerns copy.

>>7405149
>You're just repeating globohomoisms.
ill take that as youre full of shit and cant refute anything i say

>>7405160
>No one is shilling for Hollywood dipshit
yet you defend souless rip offs like Hunger Games? okay
>PS: 98% of modern anime is trope filled trash with the same copy pasted soulless bug person art style.
Cool, i can say the same thing about Marvel movies. Or how about American cartoons. Oh yeah, so creative! Simpsons is on its 30th season, Family Guy is on its 20th Season, South Park is on its 20th Season.
Oh but live action tv shows are so much better right? Yeah, nothing like Game of Thrones rip off #3562

>>7405198
>Game of Thrones rip off #3562
>Westerners rip off an original Western franchise
>"This is proof Westerners don't create anything original"
Go on. Which anime was Game of Thrones stolen from?

>>7405213
lets look at your post here >>7405160
>PS: 98% of modern anime is trope filled trash with the same copy pasted soulless bug person art style.
Right here, you are complaining about Anime copying Anime and repeating the same over and over again.
That is what Marvel Movies do
That is what Game of Thrones rip offs do
>no, its okay when soulless American hollywood jews recycle the same shit over and over again
>its not okay when Anime recycles

btw, for your question. Berserk accomplished what Game of Thrones tried to do 20 years before Game of Thrones came out, so you can go fuck yourself with that, gaijin

>>7405237
Idiot.

As expected from a tranime fan.

>>7405263
Doesnt refute anything i say. cry more bitch gaijin.

>>7404902
>"why are asians not creative". It's a thing that everyone notices
who is this "everyone"? Dumb Americans who consume soulous hollywood trash? thought so.

>>7405284
name one (1) japanese movie as good as Thor: Ragnarok
being contrarian doesn't make you right

>>7405286
>resorts to ironic shitposting now
i am done. Ive won the thread

>>7405280
Literally refutes your first sentence weeb.

>gaijin

You will NEVER be Japanese

>>7405284
or since we're in a retro board, name one japanese movies as good as Matrix, Jurassic Park or Die Hard
you shit on hollywood even though it's miles better than the rest of the world
you're a contrarian faggot
ps I'm not even american

>>7405289
I'm not being ironic, retard
name one japanese movie better than Thor: Ragnarok
if you think it's so easy that you're even pretending I'm shitposting, you should be able to do it

>>7405309
>literally admitting you've seen capeshit post Blade 2
yikes

>>7397837
Most wrpgs add lots of useless feature bloat. Sure, Skyrim has physics so you can move shit around, but what real purpose does that serve other than autism? Nowhere in the game do the physics ever have a real meaningful impact on gameplay, so they're just there so you can decorate your house, but the system isn't dedicated to that purpose so it's really jank and hard to place things the way you want.

Jrpgs attempt a story, most wrpgs are just fuck around simulators with no real player agency.

>>7399760
This sums up modern Nintendo so much. They make games and they want you to play them, but you're not allowed to have any fun. It's like a parent giving a child LEGOs, but punishing them if they try to build anything outside of what the instructions tell you.

I think it's just because Japanese society is all about cresting cogs for the machine and crushing outside thinking as much as possible.

>>7405072
This is an insanely bad take from an art history perspective. What the hell are you talking about? There were many different movements in western art before up "until the 1800s."

>>7400505
So then the only difference is having an environment to move around in during battle? Because you're still picking abilities from a menu, you just can position your characters and aim your attacks.

So you could just play Shining Force, Ogre Battle, FFT, Disgaea, La Pucelle or others. If you want something more real time, I'm sure there's something out there, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

>>7401591
You're forgetting the step where tabletop rpgs were adapted into Ultima and Wizardry, then Dragon Quest was all about taking from those games and stripping out as much as possible.

>>7405685
>he can only come up with a few JRPGs which have "lore"
>and it's not really "lore" but extra long conversations which accompany little puppet show movies
>nothing like a library filled with books on dozens or hundreds of topics
>sometimes in western RPGs reading these books will send you off on adventures which aren't pre-explained to you by whoever the quest giver of the moment is
>jrpgs always hand hold and send you scurrying off on a set mission

>>7405676
>There were many different movements in western art before up
And these "movements" were still only about who can copy still life and make a portrait most accurately, or "photo realistically". I dont care what any art major faggot says, the number one reason people worship european paintings 1500s and beyond is because people were in awe that you could make something look realistic with such limited art tools.
If photography existed in 1500s, the Sistine chapel wouldnt be a painting. It would be a photo of actors posing as angels and a God costume.

>>7405817
>jrpgs always hand hold and send you scurrying off on a set mission
Fuck JRPGs. Western RPGs for life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU3U_eCXKco

>>7405826
>copy still life and make a portrait most accurately
Take your meds.

>>7405826
The funny thing is if you wanted to after Westerners for being soulless materialists, you should have brought up modernism, not premodernism. You don't know enough about art history to get that, do you?
You try to make us look bad and instead you come across as an absolute cretin who believes whatever lies he's told about those "ebil whitoids who never invented anything".

>>7397837
How can they have more soul when jarpigs have infinitely better music?

Planescape Torment is still the best RPG of all times.
/thread

>>7397842
Fpbp
Also WRPGs are so creatively bankrupt, dear lord it's all dragons and orcs and mages in ye olde medieval times for the last 40 years

Meanwhile I can pick up a JRPG and expect a cute mascot and a girl going EEEEEHHHH?!?! MY PANTSU?!?! and then absolutely anything can happen

>>7406559
You do realize that was done pre 1500s before European painting was solely doing 1:1 copies of references right? Even then, it looks like shit. It lacks design quality and overrall looks like an awkward mess. If you think this is on par with woodblocks I don't know what to tell you. There is way better medieval European art than that. You picked a something that looks like the sketchbook of a 12 year old.
>>7406584
>doesn't post any artwork that proves my statement wrong
>has no quotes about or arguments about how Europeans weren't doing 1:1 copies of references
>instead sperges out about modernism
Nice. And let me guess, da joos right?
>ebil whitoids who never invented anything
Show me where I said this once, please

Japanese woodblocks are objectively more creative from an artistic standpoint than European. European paintings were always about how accurately someone could make paint on canvas look like a model or reference. Europeans never much cared for design quality except maybe composition and always had basic perspective portraying people like they were front and center on a stage. When it comes down to creativity, the Japs won.

Btw, western artists from the 1800s loved Asian art btw. Read about Vincent Van Gogh, he was a total weeb that was fascinated with the "ebil" Japanese art you hate so much.

>>7405685
>during battle

No, in WRPG’s you have much more freedom to interact with the environment and manipulate it because battles aren’t a random splash screen that triggers when walking through grass.

>>7405597
>Jrpgs attempt a story

Name one (1) jarpig with a story as good or better than Planescape Torment

>>7408286
And since you mongs are too retarded to post good European artwork that's creative, I will. Byzantine Artwork. It looks unwordly. The strange anatomy is done purposely to make the viewer feel like they are always watched. And it's something that wasn't made obsolete by photography. It looks like proto Gustav Klimt

>>7408286
Japonophilia is hilarious

>>7408286
>Btw, western artists from the 1800s loved Asian art btw. Read about Vincent Van Gogh, he was a total weeb that was fascinated with the "ebil" Japanese art you hate so much.

You’re ignorant of art history yourself, starting with the Portuguese contact Japanese artists became fascinated by Western techniques and started changing their own styles.

An example comes from the famous series 36 Views of Mount Fuji. In the woodblock Kōshū Misaka suimen, the artist (Hokusai) paints two views of Mount Fuji, the reflection in the water is the old Japanese traditional style depicting an idealized Mount Fuji, with the actual mountain being painted with realism rising above the lake. There was a synthesis with European techniques during the Edo Period, and denying it is just choosing to be ignorant of Japanese art and culture of the time. Yes, the government wanted to suppress foreign influence, but that doesn't mean all the Japanese artists rejected foreign art techniques as well.

The most famous woodblock artist of the era (same one who made The Great Wave) was taking inspiration from European art.

>>7397837
The Shenmue games definitely are like this (and also have a really interesting battle resolution of basically switching to a fighting game in combat, which I think is gravely underrated as a concept because the games themselves kind of underrated it). But for the most part you're right, Japanese games aren't animated by the same kind of desire to meticulously construct a world that western RPGs inherited from tabletop. (Actually, Japanese tabletop is apparently also much more focused on pickup games of short storylines, according to a couple articles I've seen, but I have no real knowledge about that).

>>7408286
>"ebil" Japanese art you hate so much.
I don't, the fact that you keep putting words in my mouth while insisting that
>has no quotes about or arguments about how Europeans weren't doing 1:1 copies of references
Is just hilarious.

>>7408286
>You do realize that was done pre 1500s before European painting was solely doing 1:1 copies of references right?
So your entire argument is that Western art is defunct because realism trended for 200 years?

>>7408404
>denying it is just choosing to be ignorant of Japanese art and culture of the time.
Show me anywhere did I say Japanese were never contacted by Westerners.
What you say doesnt change the fact that the Japanese made paintings that were stylized and it didnt look like 1:1 copies like European paintings did. The artwork speaks for itself if you look at the painting you posted.
>with the actual mountain being painted with realism rising above the lake
I dont care if you say this is supposed to be realism, the colors and bold outline of the mountain speak otherwise. This wasnt a photocopy like a European does when painting a portrait. Even if Japanese started to incorporating references more, this never changed the stylized final pieces they produce.
You seem to keep ignoring how Western artists were fascinated and influenced with Asian art. Westerners in 1800s understood then that Asian artists had the creative style and design, why Europeans were only about copying 1:1.
https://mymodernmet.com/van-gogh-museum-japanese-woodblock-prints/

Like I said, theres an ongoing theme of Japanese improving upon Western techniques with their own style. That is how anime started in the first place with incorporating Western techniques in their own Japanese style. That is what happen with the woodblocks. Doesnt change the fact that Woodblocks have more creative energy in them than Europeans copying still life 1:1

>>7408478
>>has no quotes about or arguments about how Europeans weren't doing 1:1 copies of references
>Is just hilarious.
how is it hilarious? You claim to be some huge art history buff yet you refuse to post any European artwork that goes against my claim. Yet again, here is another European painting, which is just trying to capture a scene as photo realistic as possible because its what they had to do with no cameras back then.

>>7408494
>Western art is defunct
Look at the post i was replying to. it started with someone saying Japanese artists are less creative than Europeans. I am simply stating that Japanese were more creative than Europeans, because Europeans were mostly about copying reference and trying to make paint on a canvas look asrealistic as possible, while Japanese had their own distinct style and design.

>>7408497
>ctrl+f 1:1
>9 results
Autism.

>>7408519
>you refuse to post any European artwork that goes against my claim.
>>7405106
>>7406559
>>7408332

>>7408526

>>>7408332
YOU QUOTED ONE OF MY OWN POSTS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

>>7408529
Then stop contradicting yourself, retard.

>>7408519
Europe was formed by more than 20 (?) Countries at that time. This discussion is becoming embarrassing

>>7408531
I never contradicted myself once. Japanese artists are more creative than Europeans ones. That doesnt mean I have an irrational hate for Europeans. I think Byzantine artwork has more creative artistic energy than Renaissance era paintings, because it emphasized Design, Symbols and Emotion instead of trying to be realistic as possible like a photo.

>>7408536
>Europe was formed by more than 20 (?) Countries at that time. This discussion is becoming embarrassing
When did i say its not? Every time you get btfo in an argument, you always try to detract and come up with a brand new argument. You must have made 3 different arguments out of nowhere at this point.
And the painting you posted is from 1800s when i said Europeans stopped focusing on realism. Thanks for helping my point lol

>>7408561
>I think Byzantine artwork has more creative artistic energy than Renaissance era paintings, because it emphasized Design, Symbols and Emotion instead of trying to be realistic as possible like a photo.
The meds are starting to kick in, good job.
>That doesnt mean I have an irrational hate for Europeans.
Maybe not hate but it's either irrational or you just don't know what you're talking about.
>Westerners in 1800s... Europeans were only about copying 1:1.
>Europeans never much cared for design quality except maybe composition
>And these "movements" were still only about who can copy still life and make a portrait most accurately, or "photo realistically".
>If photography existed in 1500s, the Sistine chapel wouldnt be a painting. It would be a photo of actors posing as angels and a God costume.
These are all blatantly false and that's only the last few of your posts.

>>7408561
Firstly, I am a different person, and secondly, from what I read, you just contradicted your own argument.

>Btw, western artists from the 1800s loved Asian art btw. Read about Vincent Van Gogh, he was a total weeb that was fascinated with the "ebil" Japanese art you hate so much.

Anybody have any idea why the prerendered FMVs in this game (the Bethesda logo and the intro) stutter during playback? For some reason the video will pause and then speed up to catch up to the audio. Doesn't even happen everytime. Can't figure out what's causing this and I'm using an XP system...

>>7408578
>or you just don't know what you're talking about.
and youve done nothing to prove otherwise
>Westerners in 1800s... Europeans were only about copying 1:1.
>Europeans never much cared for design quality except maybe composition
Please show me a piece of art from 1500 to 1799 (to make it clear) that proves otherwise.
>These are all blatantly false
Again, how? Actually post artwork, quotes, anything. Post any artwork from 1500 to 1799, I will look at it, and if its more creative than Japanese woodblocks, you win. Otherwise, this is going to be my final post, because you are just stonewalling at this point.

>>7408582
>you just contradicted your own argument.
How? Van Gogh was fascinated by Japanese woodblock paintings and collected them. What does that contradict.

>>7408582
>can't tell anons apart, but attempts to
>ignorant on subject matter but indefatigable
>repetitive posting style
I think we're dealing with a Wumao.

>Not just in the art, but in the ability to actually interact with the world
And do fucking what with it? Make funnay garry's mod may may videos?

W*stern D&D clones WISH they can even come CLOSE to the brilliant presentation of JRPGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsnRQJxanVM
This has 36 million views, we can say this is popular, of a WRPG within the last decade

This is a JRPG from the 90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbXVNKtmWnc

This is a generic pic of a generic fight of a generic knight with a generic dragon. Which of the tracks fit this generic scenario most? WRPGs are so beyond stale its incestuous at this point, which is ironic, considering animeland is what is blamed for being derivative of its own style

>>7408306
You're trying to argue my point outside of the context of my entire post, please try again once your argument is a proper counterpoint to what I said, since you're just repeating the same argument I literally refuted in my post.

>>7408318
I can't becauseI tried PT and it was shit, so I stopped playing. Even if the story is good, everything else is terrible and a game needs to be good as, you know, a GAME first and foremost. If it only has a good story, it might as well just be a book.

>>7405817
You replied to the wrong person, I wasn't arguing lore, I was arguing battles, learn to read.

>>7405309
Bore Ragnarok