/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7385442

It's funny, too, because the whole company was founded on Hanafuda cards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanafuda).).

But if Shigeru Miyamoto wanted to merely make games of chance, he would have stopped at Donkey Kong.

Because who has the patience to figure out the patterns of the barrels to the point that they stop becoming chance?

It's absurd. It wasn't until SMB1 that you managed to figure out how to make a game that pretty much anybody could play and win within a reasonable devotion of time and energy.

And that's why Nintendo won the market: you could actually beat these games, and beating them was rewarding.

The NES was the platform on which video games became narratives.

That is, if you know how to read them.

Every video game is a narrative, after all.

>>7385442
Yeah, there was a stockpiling element to SMB3 whereas SMW was more lax (you could revisit stages, never really ran out of lives etc). The urgency wasn't there for an inventory in SMW.

>>7385442
Likely made it too easy, it's already easy enough to farm different items at various levels in the game, and you can leave and restart any finished level

SMB3 was a straight shot, the inventory helps you not get a game over.

I think the reasoning was that not that many people actually used the inventory in SMB3. Equipping the star, for example, was almost always pointless. Another aspect is hoarding: not using items in case a more difficult level shows up. In SMW you only have one item and therefore your choices are limited and you will have an easier time using them. And third, they didn’t have enough items to justify an inventory system. They instead created secret levels that act as unlimited items! The one after the first world has a level that gives you everything including a Yoshi egg, I believe.

>>7385569
(1/5)

>>7385638
>>7385638

>>7385640
>>7385640

(2/5)

>>7385642

(3/5)

>>7385645

(4/5)

>>7385648

(5/5)

>>7385585
>Equipping the star, for example, was almost always pointless.

No, it wasn't. It was clearly for when you had to face a hammer brother, but you weren't sure you had the ability to overtake them.

Like, have you not played this game?

>>7385442
I think it's pretty obvious that smw was rushed to release at the same time as the snes
They would have probably included this and more enemies and powerups if they had more time

>>7385670
>almost always

Almost: adverb.
not quite; very nearly.

>>7385442
SMW was lazy and SMB3 is the superior game

>>7385670
>It was clearly for when you had to face a hammer brother, but you weren't sure you had the ability to overtake them.
I was always sure of having the ability to overtake them, because I'm not a scrub. And this >>7387141

But is that inventory even better though? Not sure about you but I end up just eating stars and shrooms from that inventory to make room for more stuff because I never use them otherwise. At least not until w8.

>>7385442
The answer is very simple my friend. Back in 1990/91, Nintenshit was still a creative company, and cared about gaming. They wanted every flagship Mario title to have its own facade, its own narrative, its own style.

When Nintenshit 3D-ized Mario and added him a faggot voice from Fartinet, its creativity was drained in the toilet. Forever. Since then, Mario is just a cash cow because they know there are many fags who will buy the new games no matter how shit they are.

Just look at the sorry ass shit called NSMB. While it used a (vomit inducingly awful, but at least somewhat original) art style, its facade, like inventory, red coins, endings, whatever, were all copied from other games instead of being new or its own. The end result was a scatterbrained, soulless clusterfuck, and the sequels were even worse, because they insisted to that awful art style.

So my friend, be happy that SMW was still a game that was made with creativity and care. One of the last good Mario titles. Well the very last one was Yoshi's Island. Incredibly flawed gameplaywise, but a beautifully crafted masterwork it was.

>>7385651
>>7385648
>>7385645
>>7385642
>>7385640
>>7385638
>>7385569
What does this have to do with OP's question, schizo?

>>7385442
There are stages in SMB3 which encourage wise use of your resources, like a water stage made simpler because of the frog suit, or the diagonal climb in the air stage (you know the one) that is trivialized by the P-Wing. Also consider that outside of Toad Houses, Hammer Bro encounters, or Peach gifts, you typically would only come across mushrooms and fire flowers in regular stages.

SMW on the other hand makes obtaining resources very easy, and most stages are designed to use whatever resources are within the stage. Even if you didn't find the Secret Place after the first Ghost House, there were stages that you could jump into briefly to obtain a cape or a Yoshi if you wanted, and then could exit out immedietely with start + select.

>>7385582
this, you can't revisit cleared stages or levels in SMB3, the powerups are there to help you survive if you get stuck without powerup support somewhere

>>7387879
you can farm lives on one of the forest of illusion maps really easily too

>>7386994

I mean, I'm not a game designer, but this doesn't seem like a decision one would make last-minute. Like, building the architecture of an inventory system is something you plan from the beginning; I have a difficult time believing that the answer is that they "rushed" the release.

Historically, Nintendo has been slow to release but won out because of the superiority of their product. Sure, I got a Genesis for Christmas, but after my birthday came that year, it was the SNES I would play most often.

>>7387141

There are a lot of Hammer Bros. in SMB3. I can't find an exact count, for some reason, but I'm pretty sure that if you save all your stars for when you encounter them, you just about break even.

That's far from "almost always pointless."

>>7387687

I love them both equally, and find it hard to compare. I will say that SMW made you feel like you were in a bigger world than SMB3, though, and was a very different game in that it was the first in the franchise where you were expected to play the same level more than once after completing it (which, notably, was literally impossible in SMB3).

It was like a mash-up between the gameplay of Mario and the map-questing of Zelda.

And it gave us Yoshi, who is sort of like a meta-power-up with its own weird digestive inventory...

So yeah - I think you sound like a disingenuous prat, no offense. This is probably just me being old, though.

>>7387709
>I was always sure of having the ability to overtake them, because I'm not a scrub.

KEK and then you got caught by an offhand fireball to the face that you swear you avoided and started questioning if the controller wasn't broken, right?

The RNG on the Hammer Bros. is such that at some point, it's almost inevitable that one of them will take you by surprise and do something that you didn't expect, which means that you are either using a TAS-bot, in which case it survives after hundreds of iterations, or you're not, in which case your human reflexes will probably fail, and you'll suffer damage or death.

Therefore, using a star to ensure victory against any Hammer Bro. you encounter is simply a logical imperative, since beating them will provide you with some other item, including the possibility of a star, which allows you to perpetuate the strategy upon the next one you have to face.

In terms of starting levels with them, though; yeah - that's pretty much always pointless, because the openings of levels in SMB3 are designed to introduce the basic environment of the level and very seldom require the ability to kill multiple enemies in a short amount of time.

Just what do you think a "scrub" is, lol?

Because I do not think the word means what you think it means.

>>7387739

I'm not saying that one is better than the other, necessarily. In fact, I'm not sure that SMW with an SMB3-style inventory would have made it a better game. SMW was fantastic, and I played it for years until I had unlocked every secret. Some of the levels (I'm lookin' at "Special World") were so difficult as to remind me of how hard it was to beat Ninja Gaiden (which is the hardest NES game I ever beat without the use of cheats), and while having access to an inventory would have made it easier, it would not have made it more rewarding. I mean, once you discover the "Top Secret Area," you're pretty much set.

Making room for more P-Wings and Clouds is part of the strategy of SMB3.

In some ways, it could be argued that SMB3 is a live-action RPG, considering how much strategy goes into using power-ups before entering a level.

And equally, SMW might be argued as a live-action RPG, considering how levels can be completed in alternate methods that open up new areas of the map.

And world 8 only has 2 levels, one of which can be bypassed by falling through quicksand into a pipe that allows them access to a point where they can just jump their way to the end of the level.

Also, you can swim underneath the boat as long as you can mash the A button, and basically bypass the entire ordeal.

You basically only need a single P-Wing for World 8 to deal with 8-1, and after that, you're probably fine as long as you remember that you can clip the wall in the final castle where you get a power-up and duck-jump into it, and then get passed through the wall.

Maybe save one for the final airship, though. I mean, it's not *that* hard, but at the same time, it can be very disappointing, so...

Inventory management is important to SMB3 in a way that it's not to SMW. Because you know if you need anything in SMW, you can simply travel back to the "Top Secret Area" and get it, whereas SMB3 doesn't allow you the opportunity to back-travel.

>>7387782

>When Nintenshit 3D-ized Mario and added him a faggot voice from Fartinet, its creativity was drained in the toilet.

LOLWUT?!

Okay. Let's breathe a little, here. You heated, fren. I respeck that.

But what you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense.

Are you referring to Mario-64? What is "Fartinet?" I'm having trouble following your logic.

And what is a "faggot-voice"? You sound weird. What are you talking about?

>>7385569
All reality is narratives. Arts, sciences, and philosophy are just stories we tell ourselves to try and make sense of a universe that is at its root incomprehensible to us.

>>7387795

Lol - I am OP. I posted that because it's funny, and it also reminds us that every game, no matter how seemingly "meaningless," has a narrative that we bring to it. Seeing Pac-Man as a Kafka-esque journey into existential crisis is how I felt when I played Super Mario Bros. for the first time.

If you want to call it schizo, though, then I guess okay.

>>7387879

Okay, first of all, your pic-related makes Mario look like Mussolini. That's funny. Like, Captain Lou Albano was the closest thing to a human Mario we could find, and even he didn't fully make the cut.

Second of all, you are correct in a way that I cannot argue against. And which suggests that the lack of an inventory system in SMW was intentional.

>>7387985

That actually makes a lot of sense.

The finality of completing a level in SMB3 is sort of undone by SMW.

You can replay a level in SMW as long as you care to, exploring every avenue.

And you can rely on finding power-ups where you found them the last time.

>>7387989

Yeah, but lives aren't as valuable as power-ups.

>>7389727

You are not wrong. That's why we spend our lives playing games we hope will result in conscionable assets to our lives.

The universe is incomprehensible to us, but we are not incomprehensible to the universe.

So it consumes us.

We exist as beings whose souls are eaten away at until some point at which we say "No."

I was tryna keep it light talking about retro games and stuff, but like if you're gonna press me, then I'll give you an answer.

It sounds better if you imagine it being said by Boo (pic related), though.

Really, it does.

>>7389823
power-ups are even easier; Just go into an easy level, get the power-up you need, then pause and exit.

>>7385569
Good post. Reminds me of sort of insightful stuff Sean Malstrom might say when writing about the old school Mario games. I wonder sometimes if he lurks here.

>>7387795
>schizo
When did this become the default insult
used by people with no chill? It's never used to describe people who acting even remotely schizophrenically.

>>7385442
New Super Mario Bros. U does have an inventory

>>7385442
Substance > Quantity

But I still believe that smb3 would be a much better game if nintendo waited and had it released on Super nintendo

>>7389723
ESL

>>7389558
Flawless

>>7389723
>And what is a "faggot-voice"?
Literally bing-bing wahoo

>>7389747
It's disjointed ramblings similar to what a former drug addict or schizo would say. Keep your train of thought congruent to others please.

>>7392445
>getting filtered this hard

>>7385442
Mario 3 was an end of life game. They wanted to pack in features and really show off what the hardware was capable of.
Mario World was a launch title. Just being on a new console with new graphics was good enough.

>>7389747
Dude, you are so unique and different from all the other kids. So cool.

>>7392960
This, but unironically.

>>7385442
>SUPER MARE-IO? THAT IS FUCKING SQUARESVILLE, MAN. I WANNA ROCK, DUDE!

>>7390886

Lol; thank you. I'd actually never heard of him, but he seems to bring to the table the kind of discussion I'm here for, from a cursory investigation.

Games are - and always have been - a function of art.

To discuss them in anything but that context is to lose the meaning of the game.

The earliest die were made of whittled bone. Gaming is as old as humanity.

>>7390728

Yeah, if you're in close proximity to an "easy level" that has the power-up you need. Sometimes, you gotta go all the way back to the Top-Secret Area, though, and just hope that your next attempt doesn't fail.

>>7390910

It's just an easy way to discredit ideas that challenge the norm. The dude who came up with the idea of germs died in a mental asylum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis).). People are lazy, so they look for the term they can call a threatening idea in order to nullify it instead of dealing with the actual content of the idea.

Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal tends to have that affect on people, though.

That's one of the reasons I like it, lol.

>>7393161
but I don't want to do my webshow about video games :(

>>7391608

Yeah, it probably should. I'd be likelier to play it knowing that, at least.

>>7391618
>smb3 would be a much better game if nintendo waited and had it released on Super nintendo

That was an economic impossibility. The industry was in crisis in 1989, with Atari having proven that home consoles weren't the answer unless content could be delivered to them that satisfied the public.

The NES was the future of the entire industry, and it had built enough of a cache that Fred Savage starred in the movie about it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard_(1989_film)).. There was no way to suspend that project, lol. But it drove the market long enough for Nintendo to develop a truly superior 16-bit product compared to the cobbled-together machines that Sega and Turbographx were offering at the time.

The others release first, and Nintendo releases best. This strategy worked until pretty recently.

Withholding SMB3 for release on the SNES is a fantasy that belongs to another universe, though, in case you weren't there.

I was.

>>7389519
This board is always shitting on smw for being "too easy". So much so that they'll say smb1 is better than smw for that alone.

>>7392432

The truth hurts, but it's so fucking satisfying to administer that it's worth it, n'est-ce pas?

Like, people forget that there are teams of programmers whose job it is to ensure that you can not accurately predict the behavior of a Hammer Brother. They rely on RNG, or Random Number Generators, which ensure that whatever you expect will be different from what you experience.

>>7392438
>Literally bing-bing wahoo

Well then "bing-bing wahoo" to all, lol. Faggots are everywhere, in case you hadn't noticed. Nobody cares who you want to have sex with. Like, there's not an iteration of human sexual activity that would surprise anyone who's been paying attention.

The question is whether our sexual identity determines our destinies as physical beings.

Having a sexual identity seems to imply that we have a body, though. And that's where it becomes a roll of the dice.

Are you born into a body in which you are comfortable enough to keep living?

If you are, then you're doing a lot better than me, lol.

Harold is still calling you in, though, kek.

>>7392445

Sorry to upset you. Please reflect.

>>7393551

SMW was only as easy as you made it. If you wanted to complete everything, it was quite difficult.

It got more difficult. Beating SMB1 was nothing compared to actually collecting all 120 stars in SM64.

And that was merely a fraction of what it took to get 100% in Super Mario Galaxy.

And so on, and so on...

Until what?

Because SMB3 was a board game while SMW is just an adventure game. Most of the items in 3 were for dealing with the board.

>>7393440
There's a lot of levels that give you an item block within the first section of the level

>>7391608
that game is designed to be much easier, especially since you have to deal with potentially four other people fucking you up.

Gee, it sure is reddit-spacing ITT.

FUCK. OFF.

>>7393697
I don't agree with that, I think the games get easier in terms of skill and the "difficulty" perceived is more one of patience for completing many tasks. The way I'd put it is, you get about the same play time out of being able to beat SMB1 as you do getting the stars in SM64, but your skill level will be much higher from finishing the former as opposed to the latter, as the former was a greater test of dexterity while the latter was a greater test of patience.

>>7395982

So-called Reddit Spacing is rhetorically useful. It's like indenting paragraphs, but without that "wall of text" feel that visually crowds the message.

The line-break there tells you that I am moving on to a separate, yet related point.

And this concludes the demonstration. So get over it, Boomer.

>>7393420
>that pic
Curse my ability to see autostereograms in an instant, you got me.

>>7397780
>It's like indenting paragraphs
What? That doesn't make any sense.
Neither do you indent a paragraph that way nor do you indent paragraphs at all, unless you write a scientific paper or article. Which of neither it is you're doing here.
If you want to structure your post, use simple line breaks if you feel like it got cluttered too much.
You should use double line breaks if you want to move to the next point and not abusing it like your father did you.

P.S.: (You) are a faggot.

>>7395982
>getting mad about spacing

>>7398935
why are you typing so much over 1-2 spaces between sentences? please have sex

>>7399017
>please have sex
Why do you think I'd be any less of an insufferable being after having sex and what is it to you?

You could replay levels so there was less need to stockpile items.

The big question is, why did they remove the bounce from the morph ball in Super Metroid? Every time I drop from a reasonable height while morphed, I am filled with disappointment because I did not bounce. There was no reason for them to ruin the game like this.

>>7389558
>The RNG on the Hammer Bros. is such that at some point, it's almost inevitable that one of them will take you by surprise and do something that you didn't expect, which means that you are either using a TAS-bot, in which case it survives after hundreds of iterations, or you're not, in which case your human reflexes will probably fail, and you'll suffer damage or death.
>Therefore, using a star to ensure victory against any Hammer Bro. you encounter is simply a logical imperative, since beating them will provide you with some other item, including the possibility of a star, which allows you to perpetuate the strategy upon the next one you have to face.
>In terms of starting levels with them, though; yeah - that's pretty much always pointless, because the openings of levels in SMB3 are designed to introduce the basic environment of the level and very seldom require the ability to kill multiple enemies in a short amount of time.
There are like maybe two Fire Bros. challenges in the entire game. The boomerang is easy to avoid (slow moving projectile), the hammers are a matter of waiting for them to jump on the platform, and the fireballs can be negated by a long run jump from your initial standing point and the Fire Bro essentially becomes a moving 1x1 platform you have to land on. Definitely not worth programming an inventory system for this.

>>7385651
I thought the comic was funny Mr. Anon. Some people just like venting their negativity at random targets I think.

>>7385442
Super Mario World is gay AIDS.

>>7385442
There wasn't that many different power ups anyway so programming all that in would have just been a headache and made the game more complicated than it needed to be. Maybe they thought taking it away as one way of balancing the difficulty.

>>7394404
>Because SMB3 was a board game

Woah, there. That's quite a conjecture.

It took me off-guard in a way I did not expect, though, because in a way, it's very accurate.

Yet, I can't think of a board game that requires hand-eye coordination to the degree that SMB3 does, so the conventions of board-game logic that might be applied to it seem not to qualify in terms of that which might qualify it as a board game.

>SMW is just an adventure game

Again, you're not technically wrong. But it's also a game of strategy.

If you want a Mario Board Game, I'd recommend Super Mario Party, but to call SMB3 one just feels disingenuous, because I've had some fantastically bad luck and still managed to finish it due to skill.

I will concede that SMW is less of a board game than SMB3 is, though.

>>7395973

>There's a lot of levels that give you an item block within the first section of the level

And many of these levels' item block will result in your completing the level the same way you had before, which is not the way that will lead to further progress. That's why the Top Secret Area exists. Because you will be able to find the item you're looking for there as long as you're willing to travel there. It takes time, but eventually you will succeed in your attempt.

> that game is designed to be much easier, especially since you have to deal with potentially four other people fucking you up.

Not really. I mean, as long as you're playing against the computer, then what other people do doesn't matter.

>>7385442
Probably safe to assume that Super Mario World was rushed to coincide with the launch of the SNES.

>>7395982

Reddit-spacing blesses you.

They understand your frustration; having to read things that contradict your literacy.

It is absolutely unfathomable that you would be asked to read things that don't conform with your current level of literacy. The idea that sentences are servants to a larger purpose is objectionable, and the idea that they might deserve a line-break is pure heresy.

But then again, maybe you're not stupid. Maybe you can just read text like a fucking normal person who has the ability to comprehend this so-called "reddit-spacing."

Maybe you can learn how to read the messages being communicated instead of criticizing the format in which those messages were sent.

Deltron 3030.

Reddit is little more than a memory.

>>7395990
>the games get easier in terms of skill

Depends on where you enter the games.

Kek

>>7397880

Lol; please reflect.

>>7398935

>Neither do you indent a paragraph that way nor do you indent paragraphs at all, unless you write a scientific paper or article.

OK Boomer. Tell me when I'm scientific.

P.S.: There is no such thing as being a faggot. You sound like a fucking idiot. Run away while you can.

>>7399219

LOL - until you get pounded in the face by some random Hammer Brother. Like, you think your strats are going to solve all your problems, but then you get killed by a Hammer Brother.

KEK

>>7399275

>>7399302

ROFL *You're gay AIDS*

>>7385442
Inefficient system, really