/vr/ - Retro Games

it's the
>like having an arcade in your living room!
console, except actually true. all of the games feel arcade quality.

>>7381480
My guess is unsaturated colors + just enough jpeg compression

>>7381490
>jpeg compression
This is what gives those PSX games with pre-rendered BGs such a comfy feel.

>>7381491
>>7381490
Just leave...

>>7381480
Their football games still look good too

>>7381509
Why?
I wish more games, or at least more indy games would use JPEG compression on textures to get that feel.
It's soulful.

>>7381480
looks like shit to me

>>7381528
/v/ is that way, zoom zoom

>>7381480
No screen post processing effects like bloom, or complex shading techniques like bump/normal mapping.

DC could basically do what the previous gen systems could, but better. Not nearly enough to keep itself in the race back then, but now I guess it makes it stand out and have a sort of nostalgic appeal.

its because everything is so clear, dreamcast games have a clarity to them that doesn't exist on any other platform
with the 5th gen everything was low resolution, jittery or blurry, while the 6th gen introduced postprocessing effects everywhere and every ps2 game was an interlaced blurry mess
meanwhile dreamcast games have clear textures without blurry filtering and a crisp 480p picture (depending on your cable/screen obviously). It also helps that the DC was the last hurrah for sega blue skies and had tons of arcade ports which are made to be as visually impressive as possible to bring in the quarters.

>>7381570
Dreamcast could have done GTA3.

>>7381654
I kind of doubt that

>>7381570
The DC was capable of those effects, they were just expensive and sparingly used.

>>7381657
Dreamcast handled GTA2 just fine and ran many games better than their ps2 ports.

>>7381663
That is a terrible example and you fucking know it, and while DC had better image quality and a bit more texture memory it couldn't push polygons nearly as well. If the DC could do GTA3 it probably would have been Stories/PSP tier at best.

>>7381663
>GTA2
cmon now
>and ran many games better than their ps2 ports
remind me of the size of GD-Rom discs

>>7381480
I think it's because most of the games were arcade like

>>7381673
1gb
gta 3's ps2 iso is 994mb based on a cursory google search

>>7381651
Mostly this. Great picture quality, good colors and good graphics which were not realistic enough to lose the fun arcade vibe. They look vey unique compared to the abuse of post-production effects and realistic lighting in modern games.

>>7381651
>sega blue skies

This was the best aesthetic of all time for an arcade game, they really nailed it.

>>7381673
Dreamcast games came with multiple discs.
>>7381671
>If the DC could do GTA3 it probably would have been Stories/PSP tier at best.
You're not looking at DCs strengths. It would have online play for one thing.

Tell me if you can tell the difference between Quake on DC and PS2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2OkYu-AXXQ

>>7381490
>>7381491
>>7381527
There are more types of lossy image compression that just "LE EBIN JPEG xDDDD" Moreover, I seriously doubt that jpeg was ever widely used in psx games. Sprites and textures in PSX games had typically at most 256 colors, and with that limited a number of colors, there are far more efficient ways to store that data using palettes or color look up tables. This leads to images being stored in fewer bytes than what a Jpeg could ever hope to accomplish at that color depth and resolution, and not look like absolute garbage. PSX image formats could do this even WITHOUT lossy compression, beyond what you lose in color depth. That is to say, a sharp black line and on white background will look just as sharp as if it were stored in PNG format. Jpeg compression would muddle the line awfully introducing various shades of grey. If that wasn't enough PSX image formats are typically MUCH faster to decode than JPEG. JPEG was made for photography and higher resolution images, where read speed isn't nearly as important. There is practically no reason to consider using it for a PSX game. Please never post about image formats or compression methods ever again.

>>7381717
>Dreamcast games came with multiple discs.
I couldn't imagine that for GTA 3
>>7381717
>You're not looking at DCs strengths
you're not looking at it's weaknesses, Dreamcast had small amount of memory, for an open world game like GTA that would be a huge detriment, not to mention it's progressive scan output would make it even more demanding on the system

>>7381654

Dude you will not find a bigger fan of the Dreamcast than myself, but there's no way it could have run GTA3

>>7381730
>There are more types of lossy image compression that just "LE EBIN JPEG xDDDD"
please stop bringing this r*ddit shit in here

>>7381847
The more important question is: do you want to tun GTA3 at all. GTA series is fucking cringeworthy garbage.

>>7381860
Zero arguments, fuckhead

>>7381651
Hit the nail on the head.
Graphics were advanced enough that low resolution, polygon count, and framerate no longer got in the way like they did in the previous gen, but it was still before the trend of loading games with shitty post-processing caught on.
It helps that the console really prioritzed arcade-like games (ie games focused on gameplay and quick fun rather than story and longevity like most games today).
God I miss my Dreamcast lads. So much time spent playing pic related, Unreal Tournament, Soul Calibur, and Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2. It's probably my favorite console.

>>7381875
because i stopped reading your trash post

>>7381860
>An explanation of why PSX games don't use Jpeg is r*ddit
Uh, alright.

>>7381884
grasping at straws

>>7381870
GTA3 was revolutionary and GTA:SA was the best game of that decade, retard

>>7381906
blowing strangers in dark alleys

>>7381908
Fucking normie. Sliced bread was revolutionary. Those games were pop culture garbage. The wannabe gangster stuff is cringeworthy. .

>>7381894
Suck the shit out of my asshole, mongo.

>>7381480

>>7381480
Sega used a lot of photo textures, but their kind was always low resolution and stretched which I didn't like so much. If you want an example of photo textures done properly, look at Max Payne 2.

>>7381480
Dreamcast had 640x480p VGA output for almost every game, and it had twice the VRAM of the PS2 meaning textures were generally higher resolution.

That being said, the PS2 was still much more capable overall. Three years into the PS2's lifecycle we were starting to see games like Silent Hill 3 that looked like a generational leap over the Dreamcast in terms of lighting and modeling.

>>7381923
who gives a fuck about the story? It was the open world that was revolutionary. Hell, most people I know didn't even play the missions, we all just loved being free to do whatever, drive, shoot, climb stuff, etc
GTA3 pratically invented open world games
you must be a zoomer who wasn't there to appreciate it
or you're a retard with bad taste in games

>>7381480
It's how the PowerVR chipset renders a scene. I also found things looking less washed out than on PS2.

>>7381923
Wouldn't really call III a wannabe gangster sort of game. Claude's just a gun for hire who'll get anything done for a buck.

>>7381963
Worth keeping in mind that a lot of PS2 games rendered sub-480i.

Some games even used field-rendering where each set of interlaced 480i fields were rendered independently instead of generating a progressive image internally then interlacing it after the fact. This obviously had a big performance benefit but made games look like a ghosty mess, especially on flat panels.

>>7381960
any more good examples of ps2 games that have this level of quality?

>>7381480
PowerVR

>>7381870

True its definitely not my cup of tea, never been a huge fan of open world games

>>7381717
You are so fucking delusional.
>BUT WHAT IF BUT WHAT IF BUT WHAT IF
The DC came with dialup, and I doubt it could handle an MMO style instance in a large open world well. DSL and cable were quite slow to pick up in America unless you were in a large city.

You're also comparing a game with much smaller technical ambitions. It's like saying you can do Super Mario Bros on machines of varying power. Of course you can, but the NES can't play Alien Soldier.

>>7381976
Most Konami games

>>7381480
HotD2 is a haunted house ride arcade game so it has really nice character models and environments.

>>7381480
they look like n64 games but with higher framerate

>>7381717
If it puts it in any perspective for you, peanut-head, it was not at all a given that a computer capable of playing Quake 3 well could play GTA3 smoothly.

>>7381659
Any examples? For me the DC look was always that smooth plasticky shading everywhere

>>7382106
MEGACOPE
HYPERSEETHE
GIGADILATE

>>7382127
>that smooth plasticky shading everywhere
That would be the entirety of the past 40+ years of computer graphics.

We still have a very long way ahead of us before perfect realism, even more so with all the post processing tricks and the "rt raytracing" crutch of recent times.

t. VFX artist

>>7381884
The clean graphics and arcady feel really do it for me. I had my dc on my desk plugged into my monitor while I working from home over the summer and would play dynamite cop and cannon spike in the morning. Top tier comfy

>>7381480
>Is there a technical explanation for why?
480p output (loads of PS2 games are 480i for instance), good texture compression (pretty bad "mipmapping" in many cases though) and lack of blurry post-processing features. Dreamcast games look relatively clean, kinda like a Model 3 game like Scud Race

>>7382127
Shenmue itself did with the big shiny disc mcguffin. Tomb Raider and Rayman 2 had some subtle bump mapping too.

>>7381480

>>7381570
>No screen post processing effects like bloom, or complex shading techniques like bump/normal mapping.
This. Bump/normal maps make a lot of modern games completely unplayable for me.

>>7382521
Why? Legitimately curious.

Idk m8 but I'm with you. Out of all the 6th gen consoles, something about the DC graphics just does it for me.

>>7381480
Dreamcast games upscale much better than games from any other 6th gen console. They look really good on a modern TV.

>>7381962
Open-world games are more bland and repetitive than linear games.

>>7382503

>>7382924

Dreamcast had nice colors and the images were clear.
You can see this in gta2

Dreamcast also had werid glitches.
The square blocks that appear on screen and being able to "fall" through objects you shouldnt be allowed to.

Also, and this is important, a lot of Dreamcast games look FUN, even the realistic ones like Shenmue or RE: Code Veronica. You can see in those Sonic Adventure pictures how the game looks more exciting and futuristic than any other recent Sonic game. Like a glimpse into a new era of videogames which unfortunately was abanonded to follow realism and movie-like experiences.

>>7381663
>>7381671
>>7381673
Don't undersell the GTA2 example, keep in mind in the very manual on GTA2 they advertise GTA3 as coming soon. I think a Dreamcast version was planned and may even exist somewhere internally at rockstar, likely shelved as Sega confirmed the Dreamcast was being discontinued.

>>7383280
Also
Dreamcast max payne

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U2pdyuxbbhc

>>7381480
If i recall right the dreamcast has higher texture memory than the PS2. So most PS2 look dark, muddy and washed out. As always.

>>7381956
GOLDMAN! DONT JUUUUUUMP ..... :(

>>7381923
>T. Assblasted white boy

>>7381847
whats the dcast lacking to do it?

The main reason why the Dreamcast looked better, particularly compared to PS2 and especially in the texture and colour departments, is because PS2 has just 4MB VRAM, while the DC has 8MB.

With depth, front, and back buffer at 640x480 @ 32bit, you've now already used ~3MB of the PS2's 4MB VRAM from frame buffer and Z buffer, which leaves 1MB for textures.

PS2 typically used lower res textures and higher texture compression because of this, which meant a loss of colour data from the compression. Red turns to brown, white becomes grey, and near blacks become pure black. Many PS2 games also ran at lower res than DC equivalents because higher res uses more VRAM as well. This is a big part of the reason why PS2 games looked darker, muddy and blurry.

To make things worse, PS2 games often used interlaced, while DC used progressive scan. A lot of people think this is simply an image output/connection/cable feature, but progressive scan is more demanding on the hardware, including memory.

Further making things EVEN WORSE for the PS2, you then had no SCART or VGA/RGB output (like on the DC). These both offer vastly superior image quality. If you was in the UK (like me) where SCART was extremely common even on very cheap TV's, when combining all of the above, the PS2's graphics looked significantly worse. It was immediately noticeable from just the start up screens. PS2 looked like a dark blurry washed-out muddy mess while the DC was really fucking crisp, detailed and variant.

Examples of cross platform games looking better on DC are Quake 3, DoA 2, RE: Code Veronica and Headhunter (PS2 doesn't even have shadows for the motorbike when riding around the city). There's some tweaks and sometimes slight improvements to certain things on the PS2 versions (remember these were all later released on PS2), but overall because of everything mentioned above they look worse, especially on real hardware (emulation can obviously fix some of the above issues).

>>7381956
>goldman
>wants to destroy the world
was sega based and redpilled all this time?

>>7381673
Storage space on a disc has nothing to do with how well the game runs, faggot

>>7383779
Based Miles O'Brien pointless technical factoids poster

After the ass ugly barely 3D PS1 and N64 and SS, DC rocked it proper

>>7383784
>>goldman
>>wants to destroy the world
>was sega based and redpilled all this time?
There is actually a lot of antisemitism in Japan, but I doubt they're as attuned to surnames and their connotations.
Probably just heart it and thought it was an interesting and long-enough name for a villan

>>7383939
this is some really pathetic cope

>>7383779
>PS2 and especially in the texture and colour departments, is because PS2 has just 4MB VRAM, while the DC has 8MB.
why do people keep saying this? the PS2 was designed to use its main RAM for textures, then it uploads it to the VRAM or something like that

>>7383939
I unironically believe this is true; it was a pretty glorious coupla-months window until the actual next gen consoles arrived and the DC got its asshole nuked

>>7383975
i often wonder how things could've been if developers had continued supporting the dreamcast with equal enthusiasm to it's rivals. i bet they would've eventually come out with a twin-stick controller as a midlife upgrade like the dualshock and maybe ditched the vmu due to lack of use not justifying costs. would've been cool seeing some cross platform port attempts. you guys said GTA 3 would'nt have worked on DC and maybe you're right but they got cop: the recruit running on the fucking DS so who knows what they could've managed

>>7381740
>>7382076
>>7382108
>and I doubt it could handle an MMO style instance in a large open world well.
Dreamcast had that over everything else. Of course they would implement it over its competition.
> It's like saying you can do Super Mario Bros on machines of varying power. Of course you can, but the NES can't play Alien Soldier.
Have you forgotten Half life was almost released? Had Dreamcast been a success we would have got GTA3 as another Anon pointed out it was advertised in GTA2.

>>7382093
That "level" gave me nightmares.

>>7381923
BASED
Fuck open world garbage and blacks

>>7381491
>>7381490
this is some mayors meme isn't it

>>7384264
except we know they tried, the founder of Rockstar said
>It was in development but the hardware wasn’t powerful enough to run the game in proper 3rd person perspective. We had to wait for the PS2

>>7382093
this is a horrid blurry mess of mush though

>>7384776
How was GTA3 more demanding than Half Life?

>>7384804
you're talking about a corridor shooter

>>7383146
Jesus Christ, the soulfulness of it...
Even if you hate SA, we need to bring back this graphics style.
Fuck bump maps and other faggot "photo realistic" shit.
REALITY SUCKS.

>ctrl-f "anti aliasing"
>0 results
the fuck?

>>7381651
This is also why that thread for scaled up old games was so comfy. In the event the textures didn't fuck up, it had a very clean aesthetic.
>>/vr/thread/7292970

>>7381730
https://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php/PlayStation_Motion_Decoder
>The original Sony PlayStation contains a component named the motion decoder (MDEC) which processes blocks of data compressed using a Motion JPEG-like coding scheme. The unit processes specially formatted blocks of data which contain encoded YUV macroblocks. The formatted blocks specify DC and AC coefficients and lengths of zero-runs to be used in an inverse discrete cosine transform. The unit is designed to decode 9000 macroblocks per second. A video frame with a resolution of 320x240 is comprised of 300 macroblocks. This means that the MDEC can decode 30 frames per second at maximum capacity.
>While the MDEC hardware is rigid about the format of incoming data, many PlayStation games have gone an extra step by Huffman-compressing the data, decompressing it in software before sending it to the MDEC for final decode. Many games opted to use Huffman tables from MPEG-1. However, other games use custom tables. In doing this, developers can
Granted, this is for FMVs

>>7381860
>EBIN
>r*ddit
Newfag.

>>7382146
i meant that as a complement to the dreamcast? that's how i see the system, a souped up, cd-rom based N64 with some very cool features.

>>7385674
they both aged well

>>7381480
its got the arcade quality graphics which is very refined, and many games on it were arcade ports

>>7385635
This desu, I already had this opinion when I was 9 in 1995 and it never changed.

>"wow these 3D graphics are so realistic!!"
>your life is even more realistic, so what's the point of playing a game

>>7381480
Before everything needed to be a multiplat, developers would make use of the strengths hardware had. That's why Sonic Adventure looked good on DC but Heroes looked like ass on everything.

>>7381480
They had VGA in mind

>>7381962
>GTA3 pratically invented open world games
Might and Magic, Ultima, Elder Scrolls, even if you narrow it down to "open city" that goes to Shenmue.