/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7380275
basically if you aren't a top tier Quake III player and you haven't beaten Alundra without a guide, you're bad at video games.

It is fine if you cheat in any game, but if you claim you beat a singleplayer game with cheats, or use cheats in multiplayer then it becomes unacceptable.

I use save states to get through a bunch of games and beat them legit if I really like them.

>>7380275
Stop caring about what autistic faggots think about your play style.
Just fucking play.

>>7380309
>rewinding games
>play style
top lamo

>>7380275
The post that exposed the shitters.

>>7380275
Who cares, you can lie about anything on the internet so is irrelevant to anyone except to yourself whether you cheated or not, do whatever the fuck you want

>>7380275
It is acceptable, just don't claim that you beat the game when you clearly didn't

>>7380275
small brain: using rewind in games
big brain: beating games legit
galaxy brain: using rewind to practice individual segments so you can beat them in your actual longplay

>>7380275
He's right. I abuse save states so much it never feels the same when I complete it, but having the options and not using it is impossible. I'll take saving a bunch of time and frustration so I can experience more.

That being said I don't overdo it. I just make it so I'm not too punished if I fuck up a part. Like a boss fight I will beat it legit but I will save before the fight.

This has been posted a lot recently.

I was thinking about it the other day and I thought of a bunch of games I enjoy that have parts where there is absolutely zero skill involved. Mandatory parts that are literally just RNG where you have to go out of your way to repeat them. The sort of thing where you if you started the same event a frame later is the difference between passing and failing. Some games are just bullshit like that and I wouldn't feel bad for cheating my way past the shitty bits especially when I'm playing the game for the hundredth time.

>>7380275
He's absolutely right.
Using savestates or rewind is like using MAME to beat an arcade game.
Using them for practice is sometimes fine however. and I personally think using states to help with rare bullshit JRPG minigames(FF9 Hippaul's running) is okay. But to beat any game itself requires toughing it out.

>>7380275

Not using savestates makes us more honest and less dependent on public opinion.

Remember every time someone overestimates a game you can now describe how bad it is

>>7380412
>using MAME to beat an arcade game
What's your angle here?

>>7380275
He's wrong. Savestates/rewind are a tool, not a cheat. You're still beating the game as the devs intended, but you're skipping over parts you've already gotten good at and don't feel like repeating and wasting time on.

>>7380424
Beating an arcade game that doesn't have the threat of robbing you as you play it isn't an accomplishment compared to those that actually play and master arcade caps that require quarters/yen coins.

>>7380275
Yes, I'd honestly rather have a discussion with someone who cheated their way through a game than someone who watched a youtuber play it.

>>7380275
You're a real asshole if you cheat in a multiplayer game.

>>7380435
>You're still beating the game as the devs intended

Capcom never intended that you start of a <Boss name> entrance when Mega Man got owned. The fear of death made the fight more intense, their game design punished you for failing...

Save states makes losing a game impossible because whenever the player loses or is about to lose, a save state is loaded, effectively turning back time to the situation before the loss.

You can spin it however you like, your "tool" enables your cheating.

>>7380447
So using the AES is not really playing NEO GEO games?

>>7380471
>Capcom never intended that you start of a <Boss name> entrance when Mega Man got owned.
But those games hand you lives like candy and dying puts you right before the boss entrance.

>>7380275
So you didn’t beat a game because you didn’t redo the entire level when you die? Sorry but that’s retarded. You still beat the game, yes, you just didn’t start all over. It’s not even arguable.

>>7380479
If it's the devs choice, that is fine, if your choice it is cheating.

>>7380471
as soon as the memory on the carts allowed it every single game dev used the feature, it was never a design choice, just something that the limitations forced on programmers. The best they could do was give you codes and honestly those game codes that were literally in these games as were put there by devs are way bigger exploits than save states. With a save state you at least have to beat the level so you can have the save but with codes you can simply go to the last level of the game the first time you play it as long as some magazine or another kid gave it to you.

>>7380498
>it was never a design choice, just something that the limitations forced on programmers.

Keep telling yourself that zoom.

>>7380275
Imagine give a shit what anyone on the Internet thinks of you lol. Did you enjoy the game using savestates? If yes, then awwwright man.

>>7380275
You literally don’t miss anything design-wise, if you do rewind or use save states.

>>7380275
>nooooooo you're supposed to play through an entire level again if you die at the very end of it

Fuck yourself and your masochistic autism, OP. I will do whatever the fuck I damn well please.

I agree with him in theory but can we all admit how lame as fuck it is to pretend like beating some shitty old game gives you any kind of gay ass street cred? Mike is acting like he's the bouncer at the door.
>woah dude, get a load of this guy trying to slip into our ultra elite Star Tropics club. Heh, guess again pal, this here is for real gamers only.
Gimme a break. Yeah save states and rewinds are basically cheat codes built into the emulators these days that were never intended by the developer but if you give even a seconds thought to how anyone else is playing these games besides yourself you're a fucking embarrassment and should immediately kill yourself.

I can think of a few NES games that are pure garbage playing them "legitimately", but are an okay way to kill a couple hours with save states. Back to the Future II & III is a good example.

>>7380537
>t. sóy guzzler that uses rewind on his mini consoles

>twitter pic
go back

>>7380310
ask me how I know you're a virgin.

>>7380275
>Is it acceptable to cheat in retro games?
only if you're a youtuber and play single player games no one cares about or competes in, yes.

>>7380275
Retro games are pretty easy compared to new games so using rewind or auto-fire is overkill , he's right.


>>7380630
ask me how I know you wear two masks and are obsessed with genitals.

>>7380634
why are you making this political

>>7380634
>Retro games are pretty easy compared to new games
New games are barely games.

>>7380326

This

There's no wrong way to play a game so long as you're enjoying it, but it remains a fact that cheating diminishes the intended experience

>>7380634
>Hahaha, I'm above that, ur just obsessed with genitals!!
Cope

>>7380647
It’s not cheating. I don’t know where all this cope comes from.

>>7380473
Not really. Much more fun though.
I'm being technical here. I'd much rather play MAME than an arcade machine.
To me, vidya is about enjoying the game how you want. It's why I'm pro-modding, pro-emulation, pro-piracy, etc.
But if you actually want to truly BEAT a game, you have to do it legit. If you're a purist, that's fine. If not, that's fine too.

Why can't people just do what they want AND recognize to great skill in gaming the hardcore way?
I'm no master of anything, but watching Mike beat Super Ghouls n Ghosts on "professional" is still awesome, even though I play on n00b.

There is room for both. Play how you want. Life is short.

>>7380479
The games putting you at the boss entrance also traps you from getting any more extra lives

>>7380647
I like to play old school shoot em ups and always bust out my turbo controller. The intended experience literally hurts my hand after awhile.

>>7380275
Cheat all you want, just don't claim you "beat it". Just like you can't claim victory using a motorcycle in a bike race you can't really claim you've beat a game by rewinding/slowing down time or using save-states every 3 seconds.

>>7380275
>Is it acceptable to cheat in retro games?
yes
you didn't beat it though, you just finished it

There are many games I never beat because I just wanted to enter the "unlock everything" cheat and play arcade/multiplayer

>>7380668
I really don't think physical resources play into it.
Obviously, if you're using more than one credit, you haven't truly mastered the game, but whether or not you payed money for that credit doesn't matter.

>>7380634

You couldn't beat Daggerfall if your life depended on it. You lack the patience, mental acuity, and functional dopamine receptors needed to succeed.

>>7380705
All speed runners use save states. Its the quickest way to win. You people need to accept its the future of gaming.

>>7380715
No one can because it’s a piece of shit.

>>7380719
it's pretty obvious you're just trying to get a reaction with such a stupid analogy

>>7380719

Speed runners are inherent cheaters for exactly this reason, in addition to going into the code to look for exploits and hidden tech

>>7380714
It's all about the rush.
How that dopamine hits your brain from a game is really all that matters to the player,, but to the other players of the game, skill matters in how they themselves play.
Someone that takes the time to actually get skilled and beat a game has every right to gatekeep against someone that uses tricks, because the veteran is looking for those that are peers to test his mettle against. That's where the pride comes in.
Time is money, and taking the time to "git gud" is valuable to those that do it, and thus they're in their right to defend that. If you don't agree, then why are you wasting your time with videogames anyway, logically?

It's not like we can legally go out and battle each other as men anymore either.

>>7380738
A couple of bridesmaids playing Gamecube....Neat.

>Play game
>Don't save state
>Die
>Play from wherever the game restarts me
>Reach spot where I died
>Save state
Agreeable middle ground?

>>7380525
Except for the gameplay design of being punished for failure

>>7380738
so we can admit that 98% of the nes library is unplayable, right

>>7380537
>if you give even a seconds thought to how anyone else is playing these games besides yourself you're a fucking embarrassment and should immediately kill yourself.
Well then if you’re trying to beat a video game at all then you’re a fucking embarrassment and should immediately kill yourself

>>7380739
Using free play isn't a trick. All that matters is the number of credits you use.

>>7380738
Then you should just do what they do and instantly beat their times

>>7380760
Absolutely not

>>7380785
>All that matters is the number of credits you use.
True, but a lot of people need the threat of losing $$$ to pull out their best playing. It's what makes arcade masters so damn impressive. It's one thing to buy a game and have it.
It's another to pay into a game you don't own to master it.

>>7380525
You literally do
Bosses aren't a threat anymore, you don't prepare anything anymore and you can just rush into everything without a care
it's why Dark Souls became so infamous for le epic hard game, you had to explore and carefully approach when enemies were nearby, if the fear of dying didn't exist by simply rewinding time it loses its main appeal

>>7380738
It's not cheating when it's done within the established rules of speedrunning.

>>7380819
none of which allow save states or rewinds outside of TAS.
not sure why speedrunning was brought up in the first place.

>>7380328
>galaxy brain: using rewind to practice individual segments so you can beat them in your actual longplay
no, that's small brain and micro dick

>>7380839
Speed runners constantly save state. The last Ninja Gaiden no hit run showed this.

>>7380876
Are you talking about the runner using save states to practise the final boss?

Im so ashamed today I was playing picrel and used it nearly every time i died. Although theres something to be said about how the checkpoint density seems lower than its PC counterparts.

>>7380275
I've used the rewind feature to play through Demon's Crest, first time I've used it
didn't really feel like I've accomplished anything
went in again and beat the game legit this time, no savestates, rewind or anything
did I beat the game? You could say that I gave myself an unfair advantage by efficiently practicing the game in order to git gud faster

cheating at single player games literally doesn't matter and the rules are made up lol, it's just YOU and the predictable routined game

>>7380883
Yes.

>>7380910
Well that's practise. In the actual run you can't use save states.

>>7380275
I think guides are fine, and savestates at the start of a level or phase of a multi-form final boss are fine.
Some final bosses in old games are bullshit. Like Ninja Gaiden's final boss. Or Act Raisers boss medley. No way could most people beat those as intended.
I did beat the boss of NG eventually but there was no way I was going to redo that final level or fight the first form again. It just saves time.
I think savescumming after every hit is bull same as using rewind for on the fly changes.
A lot of retro games were designed around rentals, or finding ways to cheap shot you over and over to extend their playtime. I think if said devs went back to their games they would have eased up on checkpoints a bit like modern games do.

I don't really care what others think, but I don't feel that I've beaten a game if I use cheats or savestates. If you want to, go ahead.

>>7380946
I see using savestates at the start of a level or phase akin to passwords. You're just saving time instead of putting the password in.
One can always go back and beat the game in one sitting later, but even back then game designers acknowledged not everyone will have the time to do that so they would often leave a password of that game state for you to copy down to go back into the game later.
And it's a feature I'm sure was one of the last to be implemented in many of those games in the testing phase and a lot of early games probably didn't impliment it because they didn't have the Dev time to do it. A lot of devs wanted cart saves but you have to remember that added a substantial cost to the production of a cart so a lot of publishers would just outright refuse, so usually only RPGs and adventure-type games would be granted that privilege.
But you see later platformers use saving more and more often. Rayman is an interesting example because it has both passwords and saves. Being an early title it acknowledged the idea that players might not even have a memory card yet.

>>7380668
>I'm being technical here.
Sign that someone's going to bullshit you.

>>7380275
The one and only time I ever cheated in an emulator was making a save state at a 6-1 Game Over on Ninja Gaiden so I could fight the final boss without being dumped back to 5-1 or whatever that bullshit was.
Even still that sat wrong with me and I went back and beat it proper.

It didn't even need to be said, you know when you press rewind you have forfeited your playthrough and if you go on to say you beat the game, go ahead and lie to your family/friends. It makes you a piece of shit.

The only time save states etc are acceptable is in speedrunning when you are learning a boss or something. I dont even consider it acceptable to have a save state to avoid long password screens/intro cutscenes, having to sit through all that bullshit is part of the challenge of beating the game.

>>7380275
>devs included the rewind feature on the official release
>meaning it was an intended feature
>even if I use rewind I'm playing it the way the devs intended
What now faggot?

>>7380782
>so we can admit that 98% of the nes library is unplayable, right

Sure why not

>>7380790
>speedrunning is something to aspire to

>>7380919

Using save states to practice a specific section is essentially cheating since it removes the pressure and endurance required to play the rest of the game leading up to it.

>>7381114

They only put those in so zoomers will play them

Anything added to a game later in its life to make it easier is essentially cheating for ADHD zoomers with lousy hand/eye coordination given to them by their drug-addled parents

>>7381231
listen to this poster and examine the important pic he posted that is on topic.

>>7380275
I mean if the guy with a 10 inch dick says its not acceptable it isn't

>>7380662
>Infinite lives isn't cheating