/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7371027
this game actually looked appealing and a proper follow up to 2d sonic, Those levels designs are really funky and look nothing like other games, too bad sega is retarded, Adventure was awful and retained very little of the identity of the character.

>>7371049
I like adventure, but I respect someone who isn't constantly on their knees trying to suck it off.
If you play what's there of the X-Treme games, it has some fun mechanics and cool ideas, but it probably would have been sucky and gimmicky. Those builds should run on your PC with no emulator. One of them does, at least. They're mostly empty, but both very very different. It doesn't look like they had much of an idea where the game was going and kept starting over. One of them is in the NiGHTS engine, which was to be used in boss fights, and the other is in an engine written for X-Treme.

Needless to say, however, the game would have put Sonic on a much different direction than Adventure, whether you think that's good or bad. You have to appreciate Senn for believing in the project and hanging on as long as he did. He was active within the community a few years ago, even helping to restore some X-treme content, but I don't know what he's doing now.

>>7371027
>can be at least partially chalked up to its lack of an original mainline Sonic game.
What were they thinking?

And was Sonic R the best they could come up with? Wasn't it a formula one racing game turned into sonic racers? That game always looked like it handled like shit.

not getting X-treme is my biggest gaming sadness. Even if it would have been shit, what was shown looked really unique and original and just that whole aesthetic of it was amazing.

I blame Sega of Japan being a bunch of jelly-boys over it. With Naka throwing a hissy fit because they DARED take away any of the glory from NiGHTs when they attempted to use its engine to help with X-treme. So much vain shit that was against getting a main entry Sonic title on the Saturn that would have only strengthened the company.

Sega of America was also retarded when they wouldnt let it be a PC exclusive release, argument being because all of their PC line were ports of Saturn games, which is absolute BS since they had 2 different PC labels back then and both of them released games that were PC original titles.

My biggest hope is Sonic Mania 2 ends up becoming a revival of X-treme by people who actually care about the classic era games.

>>7371069
It does handle like shit. I like it, but that's because I've played it since U was young and didn't know better. The characters move like cars, because like you said, it started out as an F1 game. John Burton/Gamehut has a bunch of early builds, including some of the original car models, which he has up on the Gamehut YouTube channel.

Technically, the Saturn also had a slightly enhanced version of 3D Flickies Island/3D Blast and Sonic Jam, but they're both glorified ports. Sonic Jam had Sonic World, which is a very early implementation of the engine which would later be used for Sonic Adventure, animations, physics and all.

The game looks dreadful and lifeless. Having a fish-lens effect annoys me to no end and gives me a headache. Why is everything about spheres now? Sonic was never about that.

there is this game called Demon Turf I think that I imagine was inspired by X-treme or simmilar Saturn-ish platformers. Uses a 2D sprite in a simple polygon looking 3D environment, though it appears to be more like an open 3D platformer i think

>>7371064
chances are The saturn would still have failed and N64 and psx platformers would have overshadowed it but i see no reason why this game had to be cancelled, it would have done well in 1996 and would have done a lot to keep the Sonic franchise alive. Even the very little gameplay i've seen looks like a really trippy and pretty game with its own retro charm to it. The fish eye is really interesting and Sonic was always gimmicky anyways.

i'd be more upset if it was a 2d sonic game on the genesis that was cancelled. a legit Sonic 4.

don't care about the saturn. it was always an oddity.

>>7371049
>Adventure was awful and retained very little of the identity of the character.
How can you say something so controversial yet so brave?

>>7371095
>very little of the identity

what more is there to sonic besides being spiky, blue and having a 'tude?

>>7371075
>My biggest hope is Sonic Mania 2 ends up becoming a revival of X-treme
I wish. The closest we'll get is a quick screenshot or reference, and that's if we're lucky.

>>7371082
Most of the images and footage shown to the public were just mockups. It's safe to say the game would have been at least slightly improved. It's a decent attempt at a 3D Sonic, but I'll concede it probably wouldn't have won any awards.

>Why is everything about spheres now?
Not sure what you mean. Though 3&K did have its fare share of sphere based gimmicks, the blue sphere stages and those special stages where you had to use the floating spheres to fling yourself upwards just to name a couple.

>>7371087
Neat! I'll check that out.

>>7371091
>i see no reason why this game had to be cancelled
A multitude of reasons. SEGA had given Senn a long, long time to try and get it working but very little progress was made. There were at least three engine overhauls and even more plot rewrites. It was just taking too long and not getting anywhere.

>>7371094
Yeah. The Saturn was always weird to me as a kid. I played it the least out of all the SEGA systems we had. I can only think of a couple of games worth playing.

>>7371082
>Why is everything about spheres now? Sonic was never about that.

idk how the fuck Sega of America greenlights Sonic's Schoolhouse as a PC exclusive Sonic game, but wont let them release X-treme as one

>>7371049
I only had a GameGear and Genesis as a kid and didnt get the Saturn till 2000, so when Adventure came out I was like, the fuck? Did i miss something on the Saturn? Did Sonic hit puberty?

It's linked in the thread i attached to the OP, but here's the level editor.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/8wl8o1wnzm55xg5/20150520_Release_001.zip/file

When I tried a couple of years ago, I couldn't get it to work right, but be sure to report back if you can. Working or not, it's great that we even have the dev tools.

>>7371114
>Sonic's Schoolhouse
That piece of shit game uses (possibly previously unseen) sprites from X-Treme. That game is probably hiding all kinds of shit in its data, but nobody's retarded enough to dig around.

>>7371120
Kek. When Adventure released, my brother and I were in the car home with it in our hands, absolutely ecstatic to see what Sonic's voice sounded like. Seeing those characters talk completely overshadowed how horrible the voice acting and lip sync is.

>>7371080
>Sonic Jam had Sonic World, which is a very early implementation of the engine which would later be used for Sonic Adventure, animations, physics and all.
How could they not realise a Sonic game HAD to be released? Gamecube took their time but eventually released shitty sunshine. What the hell was Sega of Japan and America thinking?
>>7371108
They would be nuts to release an entire game of just this.

>>7371153
They knew, but by the time X-Treme fell through, it was already too late.
The lack of a Sonic game was more of an issue in the West, anyway. Sonic isn't as popular in Japan as he is in this hemisphere. There were a lot of things which lead to the Saturn's demise, the lack of a mainline Sonic game was just the final nail.
In fact, Adventure started life as a Saturn game in the same way that X-Treme started on the 32X (then the Mars lol) then finally moved to the Saturn. The difference is that Adventure had a sense of direction and was released, like it or not.

>>7371153
>They would be nuts to release an entire game of just this.

>>7371189
That game sucked but it wasn't just one big bonus stage.

Here's a compilation of Sonic Mars/Sonic 32X footage. This game would eventually become Sonic X-Treme, after development moved to the Saturn.

https://youtu.be/DrxbGn-FQcA

The footage up to 0:57 is all 3D animation made as proof of concept.
0:57 - 1:23 is a very early build which used Sonic, (Tails?), Knuckles and Senn's OC Sarah Boobowski. They would each have a unique gameplay style, similar to what Adventure would eventually implement.
1:23 - 2:32 is the phase of development that people will think of if you mention Sonic Mars. This, to me, looks like the most fun and stable build of the game, including the Saturn builds. You can see here that there are working enemies and obstacles, as well as level design, however linear it is. It looks a bit slow, sure, but that could have been ironed out in the final product. If the game had continued in this trajectory, it may have come out on time.

2:33 onwards shows a rotation of a very shiny Sonic model. I can't say for sure, but it doesn't seem to me like that would have run on the Dreamcast, let alone the 32X, Mars or Saturn. It might be the model, or one of the models which the Saturn builds used in order to make the sprites.

>>7371194
Mediafire link to the X-treme 001 build. I would have linked this in the OP, but I completely forgot about it.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/977cd8c36qat1c6/SONCBOOM_v001.zip/file

It's the earliest we have, and has some resemblance to some of the Sonic Mars footage linked above. There's several animated sprites of Sonic, and it seems to me that the camera's movement speed may be mapped to your GPU, so the slightest movement will send you flying.

>>7371194
>Sonic Mars/Sonic 32X footage.
1:52 They could have built a decent Saturn game with this. Sort of like Bug but with speed.

0:37 looks amazing. Mixing that in with what they had would certainly be better than Saturn Nights.

>>7371230
>1:52 They could have built a decent Saturn game with this.
That's definitely the best it gets with all these prototypes. I wish there was a playable build of that version, but afaik there isn't. It's a shame, because it actually looks playable. Still, that's compared with the torrents of unfinished shit that comprise Sonic X-treme. The closest we have is >>7371210

>>7371136
>Seeing those characters talk
There was a Sonic animation series back then in '93

>>7371336
Yeah, but that wasn't in a video game, and most of the characters in that show were faggot Archie OCs. The characters talking in Adventure was authentic, the show was a spinoff. That's how I thought about it, anyway.

>>7371336
>>7371346
giving sonic too much lore was one of the stupidest shit sega did and it was classic american marketing shit. Sonic worked as a fun mascot that run around psichedelic worlds that made no sense, suspension of disbelief worked when it was just that but in the comics and in adventure they went full retard and a lot of the cringe for Sonic after that was Sega trying to ground the character in some for of reality which makes it look autistic and the logic all retarded.

>>7371027
Stop shilling the Saturn. It is fucking garbage.

>>7371709
theres something interesting about vaporware and lost software, and the Saturn is king when it came to vaporware and odd games with odd developments

>>7371094
There was a real "Sonic 4" on Saturn, which supposedly got simplified into Sonic Crackers and then repurposed into Knuckles' Chaotix (or maybe there is some other way Crackers fits into this; either way drx is confident that the Saturn S3&K follow-up became Chaotix).

>>7371027
The part that sucks the biggest, to me, is that Sega's PC division could have salvaged Xtreme but opted to go with more dated ports that'd become unplayable in a few years.

>>7371049
>this game actually looked appealing
Stopped reading there.
It was a stupid fish-eye shit that barely anyone would find appealing and the game itself would play clunkier than 3D Blast.
Sega actually made a good call dropping it.

>>7371803
>It was a stupid fish-eye shit
Might work as a bonus stage. I don't know how long I could bare to look at it.

>>7371803
>oh no , someone likes someone i don't like on the internet!

>>7371095
Stupidity =/= bravery

>>7371361
>Sega trying to ground the character in some for of reality which makes it look autistic and the logic all retarded.
It was already going in that direction by at least 1993.

>>7371813
Yes.
>>7371817
I doubt that he actually likes it, the guy probably just seen a few screenshots, never played protos or watched any footage and more importantly most likely just posted here to shit on newer things.
At any point of it's development X-treme wasn't that good of a game and would be shitted on as a gimmicky shit in the case if it was actually released.
Personally, I love it from an archaeological standpoint, but it wouldn't actually turn any heads or save Saturn or keep Sonic in his classic style any longer than he was or any of that alternate history fantasies that some people hold about the game. It would be nice to have, but that's it. I doubt Sega of Japan would ever acknowledge it, even if it was released.

>>7371049
>this game actually looked appealing and a proper follow up to 2d sonic

>>7371709
I literally don't see how this is shilling the Saturn, considering how its failure has been one of the number one topics here.
>>7371726
>theres something interesting about vaporware and lost software
This. Regardless of whether you'd actually like the game, its development is interesting. The fact that we have so many prototypes even more so.
>>7371763
Nice. I'm sure it wouldn't have actually been Sonic 4, but still. What are the chances that that game would come out and then get panned for being 2D, like so many were? Or do you think it'd get a pass just for being Sonic?>>7371795
Tiara! Not Sarah. I'm an idiot. That name is 100% intentional.
>Sega's PC division could have salvaged Xtreme
Senn and some others tried, working on it as Sonic PC (it always ran better on PC than Saturn anyway) but it didn't last long, and Sega Japan didn't want them to, either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjphD_BQ1Ks

The camera angle adds too much difficulty in forward or back jumping, so the only way you could do challenging platforming is tradition 2d action. Watching the demo, this seems to be the case. Most of the obstacles are done on a 2D plane, and the ==3d aspect is just level progressing. If they just made the angle better and gave sonic more precision in jumping it would be tight

I like the idea of having a 3d platformer locked in an overhead view and controls

>>7373217
Yeah it has a klonoa-ish 2.5D vibe in places.
I remember when Sonic Lost World came out, people (read: retards) were saying "OMG IS THIS X-TREME???!!!"
Obviously it wasn't, but I wouldn't be shocked if they borrowed some ideas.
Sonic had a World Rotation power, which worked similarly to the spindash, only it was used to change gravity, a la the switches in SA2's Crazy Gadget.
It sounds cool, but can you imagine how buggy an exploitable that would be?

I believe the link you posted is from a fan recreation, but either way it doesn't look too bad, all things considered.

Here's the trailer that always enraptured me:
https://youtu.be/qdBKq7o6RTE
You can see the World Rotation about 30 seconds in. Crazy that we actually have that build, now. Besides the fisheye and some broken actors, it's almost 1:1. It looks like what's shown in that trailer is pretty much everything they had.
Still, this build looked positively psychedelic. There are some shots like 0:50 where you can see all of the crazy geometry stretch out into the distance.

>>7371709
seethe Bernie

>>7374678
He's probably mad that we aren't talking about his beloved C64

>>7371803
looked more fun then NiGHTs ever did

>>7371848
You sir is a fuckin retarded

>>7371820
And you are the stupid one

>>7375173
NiGHTS is pretty good. But yeah, I would have liked this game more. Some of the builds, anyway.

i wonder if maybe Sonic wasnt the best character for this style of game. While I love mostly everything I ever saw of X-treme, the one thing that seemed to cause more problems then anything was Sonic's speed, resulting in a lot of camera flipping out all over the place action. Like, maybe if this game had used a slower, more grounded character, like lets use Knuckles for example, as a character exploring a 3D level with multiple paths and routes and things to find, using punches for beat-em-up attacks rather then needing to spin-dash into stuff. Do something almost like a 3D platformer, but done with the fisheye/360 world style. Makes me think maybe it would have made the game less "barf inducing".

>>7375212
That'd probably be a goo call. SEGA wouldn't make that choice, though. They pretty desperately needed their first 3D Sonic game for sales reasons. Knuckles' name doesn't hold the same weight. See: the moderately successful Knuckles Chaotix

>>7375232
If I remember correctly, the name "Knuckles Chaotix" only came to be so that Sonic's name wasn't tied to a product that could potentially fail and mar the series. Sonic Crackers became a game where the new character Espio would be the main character, but then they changed Knuckles to be the main character in order to reach a sort of middle ground where it wouldn't ruin Sonic's name if it ended up being a disaster but would still attract fans of the series.

>>7375309
That makes sense considering that it's just called Chaotix in Japan

>>7375173
I never really got the appeal of NiGHTS, so I can't really tell you if X-treme would be better. Both are too gimmick-y to get mainstream.

>>7375309
There's still Tails data in the game too, just without the sprites, so it's glitched when you select it on Level Select
>>7375336
It's kinda called that in the west too if you go by the title screen.

>>7375614
I had Nights back in 98 and I bought it recently. I still have never passed the first stage.

>>7375623
If it helps, that first boss is super easy to beat if you spin around near its tail. Can be beaten in a few seconds if you're precise enough. They made it harder on the Steam version for some reason.
Yeah. That game isn't for everyone, but I like it a lot. Makes me wish Sonic Team did more with the series instead of just Sonic and Puyo

>>7371763

You see, that's cool. I would have been interested in seeing a Sonic game with the art style of Knuckles Chaotix (but not the same gameplay).

The sprites were made a little bit more mature, less young. Starting to think the Sonic Mania team copped out by going back to the Sonic 2 sprite.

>>7375861
I see what you mean, but they probably went back to whatever was the most recognisable to the general public. I wish they'd used something more like the Sonic 3 sprites, myself. And I hate that they made Sonic the "classic" blue which he arguably never even was in the classic games.

The bonus stages in BUG! for the Sega Saturn, had the right idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL4ufta_BU0

Sonic could have looked great as a 2.5D platformer like this.

i never liked the Adventure design coming so fast after the Classic era, but I really liked how the Sonic 3 sprite and the Toei/SonicCD intro Sonic looked and I wish that design had been used more, at least in the period between Classic and Adventure. Would have worked great as showing the characters in-game age changing. Its also just such a great design, not too mascot-y, not to much over the top edge.

>>7375996
the way this has Sonic show up in the far distant background and come forward would have been a fantastic mechanic for a 2D Saturn Sonic, like even being able merge the plane transition effects X-treme had with going further into the distance, going sidescroller, then later moving back forward through crazy loops and shit

>>7375996
That doesn't look too far off some of the later X-treme builds. Specifically the one with the level editor. I wonder if one inspired the other.
>>7376039
The Adventure design seemed to make sense at the time. Everything was moving away from cutesy mascots and towards edge. Toei Sonic is my favourite depiction of the character, hands down, though. The Mania artist, Tyson Hesse, seems to take a lot of inspiration from the CD cutscenes.
>>7376054
X-Treme kind of had that plane switching, but it wasn't like Bug's.

Was it for the Sega System?

>>7376067

>>7376054
And it's not like it would have been hard to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=358RXiVF-6k

>>7376064
>The Adventure design seemed to make sense at the time. Everything was moving away from cutesy mascots and towards edge. Toei Sonic is my favourite depiction of the character, hands down, though. The Mania artist, Tyson Hesse, seems to take a lot of inspiration from the CD cutscenes.
id have to rewatch the intro cinematic again, but i definitely feel like the animated tie in mini series they did kind of pushed the design a little too much into like a CalArts style. Like, there is no doubt Toei design was the basis, but some of the facial expressions just dont match up to that style and remind me a lot of modern cartoons. maybe its just me.

>>7376081
Nah. I see what you mean. It's not 1:1, but his Sonic looks a lot like CD Sonic

>>7376086
yeah ok, maybe it was just the animated mini series they did then. I remember liking the Mania intro but then when I watched some clips of the series I was thinking like, wait is this how Mania also looked?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYvO8eaWJNc < this being what I was referring to

>>7376095
Yeah I like those too, but I don't necessarily hate the CalArts shit. It's just that it's always used in cringe cartoons imho

>>7376098
The only reason people are so asshurt about CalArts is because it's the style Steven Universe was done in

Some of the plot treatments mention creatures called Mips. Like the game itself, they seem to have gone through a few revisions. My (least) favourite of them all are these creepy gnome-like creatures. At least that's what we thought they were for a brief moment, before this gnome sperg turned out to be from a Christmas test level of all things.

Slight addendum to the OP.
>This is the original Sonic Retro thread with the X-Treme leaks
https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-x-treme-textures-and-defs.18538/

Some of the images are dead since it's an old thread, but it's a good read throughout, cringe 2009-isms aside.

>>7371027
There was a game based of off that gameplay called Bug. It fucking sucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GnUZ_BtUnE

>>7376189
>X-Treme cancelled in '97
>Bug! released '96

>>7376196
Still proof that if X-treme was ever released it would have been akin to Bug and it would have been awful.

>>7376206
It's still an interesting topic to discuss. It was going to be the first true 3D Sonic game. Being interested in it doesn't mean I think it would have been a masterpiece. X-treme's development is a interesting story to which we have a lot of pieces, much more than most of these unfinished projects.
But yeah, it likely would have sucked

>>7376189
Idiot.

.... aaanyway.

There are several videos deep into YouTube of the late PC builds of this game (specifically Ofer's engine), supposedly captured by Senn himself and uploaded by various people. This stage of development looks like an actual game. It wouldn't be long until it was canned.
These are just mockups meant to be shown off or used for testing. Chris Senn said about these stages: "they were more like playgrounds than levels"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IOd0mQ-uXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nto4ctFSWkc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT1VKNyW8rI

>>7376206
Why? If Bug had Sonics art style and speed it could have been alright.

>>7371027
After seeing every video of the game and even playing a tech demo of it, I can say without any doubt that this turd would never have saved the saturn. If anything, it likely would have helpled kill it instead.

Think about it; what elements define all the best sonic games? Speed, reflexes, flashy visuals, fun gameplay? Well sonic X had none of that. It felt like a worse version of Sonic Blast, if anything. It would not have saved (or even helped save) jack shit.

The only reason people cling to it now is so they can either dump all the blame for saturn failing onto an easy, and defineable target, or because they want to pretend that success was just one game away. And that's all bullshit.

It was a shit game, everyone with taste could tell as much from what's available. Just let it go.

Looks cool imo

>>7376251
What the fuck am I looking at here? What is this fisheye lens shit? It looks disorienting as all hell but also kind of cool.

>>7371189
>They would be nuts to release an entire game of just this.
Technically speaking, they already did.
https://youtu.be/zYe5mydJXFE

>>7376453
>Technically speaking, they already did.
People paid money for this?

>>7376418
I'm not a fan of the fisheye either. As others have said, the game would probably not have been too great, but it's interesting too look at/read about, right? A crazy development story where a developer nearly died of pneumonia and everyone quit one after the other

>>7376453
Lmao. At least Blue Sphere was attached to S&K at least

>>7376463
Admittedly, no since it only requires Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 1 (or every single other genesis game aside from Sonic 1). I think it's on some of the complication collections too.
>>7376373
The fan recreation at the last SAGE fun generally, but the level designs with the precise jumps were bad and the lack of borders/invisible walls hampered it more than it helped.
Not sure what that says about X-treme as a whole rather than the ones who made the recreation, but I feel it says something nonetheless.

>>7376115
In the 1980s, CalArts style was animated movies drawn to resemble rotoscoped Disney movies.
In the 1990s, CalArts style was limited-animation Ren and Stimpy ripoffs.
In the 2000s, CalArts style was anything with an aesthetic similarity to anime.
The noodly-armed ToonBoom abuse is only the latest incarnation of a retarded bogeyman.

>>7376463
Yes and gladly. Thanks.

>>7376548
It's unoffensive and very unappealing now. The entry barrier for doing this kind of animation is also pretty low now, meaning you get quality and results that are all over the place.

>>7371027
Hmm

>>7371075
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it in this thread yet, but there's a fantastic sonic fan game called Sonic RoboBlast 2 that translates the design of the 2d games into 3d amazingly well. And the graphical style is very cool as well, since its built on the DOOM engine.

>>7378185
srb2 is cool and all, but way beyond the capabilities of 5th gen consoles.

>>7376548
The "muh everything is calarts" meme was started on a blog post by notorious hack and washed up salty boomer John K. A guy who also hates anime, hates pixar, hates classic disney, modern disney and hates anything thats not specifically made by either Chuck jones or himself. He is a massive fucking faggot like that.

Most of the artists accused of it , like rebecca sugar never even went to calarts

>>7376196
>>Bug! released '96

Bug was released in December of 1995. It has a sequel called BUG TOO! which was released exactly one year later in December of 1996.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7jkmDL4Iiw&t=3063s

The original BUG! was a bit of a novelty on release for being a 3D platformer. It was released before Super Mario 64. But in late 1996, there was already Mario 64, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot and even Sonic Team's NiGHT's, which overshadowed BUG TOO! I think Bug Too! is a better game overall. But not amazing.

>>7378185
SRB2 is great. Amazing that it still gets updates. There are a lot of mods which aim to recreate the feel of stages from other games. Even an '06 one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpHN9K7NW3I
Weird how nobody is talking about z-treme and XL2. The Sonic Xtreme concept never seemed to have much potential or a solid direction and for how long it went on for just reeks of a waste of time and money. It would have helped the Saturn but what would have helped while keeping it in the realm of reality is actually promoting and releasing the games the console had.

>>7378208
But it's just Doom...

>>7371803
>the game itself would play clunkier than 3D Blast.
Never. 3d Blast's platforming is some of the absolute worst in existence. There's only 1 true platforming part of the game and it's infamous for being so difficult.

>>7378210
>hates anime
Sounds bas-
>hates pixar
oh

>>7378276
>It's satisfying to homing attack while platforming
Zoom, play Sonic 4.

>>7378291
I didn't make the image. Its from some retarded blog. But 3d blasts platforming is so garbage and ironic permanent homing attack would make it better, granted 10x easier

>>7378235
>Bug was released in December of 1995. It has a sequel called BUG TOO! which was released exactly one year later in December of 1996.


Bug Too! really was a better game than the first one. The first one was neat when it was released, but the levels were pretty bland. The sequel seems to take some notes from Gex!. The game even starts in a horror themed level, and tries to get more self referential/ punny. It makes nice use of the 2D and 3D capabilities of the system. I wish more Saturn games were like it.

>>7378281
I respect someone who hates soulless western 3d trash than anime.

>>7378185
SRB2's level design is a fucking mess, it's a great fan effort but it would never have had the same appeal the Adventure series does if it somehow came out officially back then.

>>7375861
WTF happened during spinball

>>7378490
Many have asked that question

>>7378318
he hates literally everything, he hates animation, only things he doesn't shit on is his own garbage and tex avery. Anyone like this is a faggot.

You must think his miley cyrus video is pure soul too, no wonder, its always hacks to are the biggest "critics". Sad that even today he steals all the credit for Bob camps work on the only relevant thing John K worked on, and was fired from because he was sinking it.

>>7378310
I can guarantee you the platforming is only as garbage as your abilities.

>>7378547
>t. never played 3d blast

>>7378559
I did, beat it twice this week just to see how bad it was and ended up liking it more than the adventure games. I'm not saying that those games are bad, but 3d blast isn't as shit as everyone says. You can just spindash then jump over those platforms, btw.

>>7378271
it has slopes (1) and gigantic maps that are far bigger than the memory available on those consoles. also, it probably would play like crap if it doesn't run at a smooth 30fps minimum

slopes are difficult to render correctly on ps1/saturn because they require either
- arbitrary polygon rendering w/ perspective correct texturing (which would be done in software, aka slow)
or
- fast floating point hardware, which doesn't exist
or
- if you use the regular texturing hardware in the ps1/saturn it'll stand out very obviously among the perspective-correct texturing in the rest of the engine.

n64 could do them correctly but the game is still way beyond that hardware too.

>>7378583
>Mega Drive
Saturn version is better. There's also an improved Directors Cut update to the Mega Drive game, made by the same dev who originally worked on it. So you could say it's a semi-official patch. And yeah its a decent-ish game. Wouldn't say it's better than the first Sonic Adventure though. It certainly wasn't even close in the 90's anyway. But 3D Blast probably held up a tiny bit better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_aal1U7bGQ&list=PLi29TNPrdbwKbLF55py8J7DH_D3AigOCX&index=9

>>7375861
>>7375870
I've always thought that his sonic 3 sprite looked too passive, almost as though they're trying to give him a facial expression more similar to Mario than being true to the character they already established.

I am also going to guess that the shade of blue he was in Mania was an order from higher up at Sega to fit in with his broader marketability.

>>7378235
"This is the character! This is the character that is going to do it for Saturn!"

Was he paid to say this?

>>7378670
Sonic 3's sprite is determined, part of his expression was passed off to his mouth which doesn't look like a smile but rather something indignant. I will agree that it does come off as a softer expression because his eyes aren't as slanted so as to make him look angry like in the first two games. But he looks closer to the actual character design that they had going since Sonic 1 as a result of that. Hell Sonic 3's sprite is all around just trying to get closer to what he looks like in all of the Japanese art. Hardly "betraying" his established character, especially for the devs themselves.

>I am also going to guess that the shade of blue he was in Mania was an order from higher up at Sega to fit in with his broader marketability.
Are you retarded? It's to throw back to what Sonic's artstyle would have theoretically become on the Saturn while still keeping the Genesis sprite roots. Knuckles' palette is mostly pulled from Chaotix, which is the biggest inspiration behind the colorization of Mania.

>>7378719
I'm just saying that the brighter shade of blue they used in Mania is clearly more similar to the one used in his other recent games (Lost World, Forces etc) than to earlier Genesis games, along with his vaguely green looking eyes.

I'm not too familar with the complete history of the character so thanks for clarifying.

>>7378717
>"This is the character! This is the character that is going to do it for Saturn!"
>Was he paid to say this?

Did he really say that?

>>7378583
>3d blast is shit
point to where i ever said this once. i am one of the few advocates of 3d blast.
the platforming is still garbage, which is why they dont have you do it except rarely. The image i posted is one of the very few places in the game that make you jump on a floating platform. Most of the levels dont have you jump on floating platforms
> You can just spindash then jump over those platforms, btw.
the fact you did this instead proves my point lol

>>7378635
>Saturn version is better.
See pic.
>There's also an improved Directors Cut update to the Mega Drive game,
Still made the baffling decision of only being able to get one emerald per zone (even stricter than Saturn's one emerald per act; originally you can get two if you found Tails and Knuckles).

>>7379181
Woah there, I just stated other people said it. But I agree with you, a lot of the stages involve just jumping over any challenge, especially in this game's "arcade" zone. I guess the lava zone has some more dangerous platforming thhat actually matters (but it's pretty easy to skip with the lava shields that are pretty common).

>>7371194
look leagues better

I still wonder why STI was given the rights to the Sonic series during the Saturn era. Who thought that was a good idea over having some B-team at Sonic team make a game for the Saturn?

>>7378798
>vaguely green eyes
I don't see that at all, and thank god because I'd be pissed as hell if I did

>>7379863
you have to understand, Sega executives were snorting a shit ton of coke back then

>>7379863
>Who thought that was a good idea over having some B-team at Sonic team make a game for the Saturn?

Sonic Team already had their hands full with NiGHT's, Burning Rangers and Sonic Jam. Plus they also did the 3D bonus stages for Sonic 3D Blast on the Saturn.

>>7378235
Glad the era of every western platformer having an edgy animal mascot and a bunch of movie parodies is over.

>>7380151
il take a snarky animal mascot with 'tude over the bland, dirty, serious "realistic" wanna-be-movie characters we get in western games now

>>7379863
because sonic did good in US and shit in Japan. Sonic Jam was litteraly made to promote Sonic because he was not close to as famous in Japan as the rest of the world. kinda makes sense looking at it in the sense of, you American-dogs seem to like this thing we made, so we will let an American company handle it for a while since they probably know why you people like it

>>7378798
>vaguely green looking eyes.
Nigger those are the same black eyes as ever just done closer to how Sonic 3 handles it since it looks better.

You people are fucking nuts.

>>7380261
>>7380151
both are shit, and a false dichotomy. I personally really like the appealing, fun and upbeat styles of gaming art before the mid 2000s. As much as i respect Sotc that art direction really shit on everything and suddenly everything was brown and grey and overused bloom effects, even fucking Zelda did it, and all the cartoon mascots going numetal was some faggot shit too, it was like gaming was on a angsty 12 year old phase, even Prince of Persia changed its soundtrack to new metal and the prince became an emo faggot on Warrior Within, thats a good example of the shift in mentality that was ocurring

>dude what about a game where you go fast except you can't see shit
this game always looked awful and it was probably good it got canceled

Thanks God none of them were released, and all the work they get from it went to Sonic Adventure (Peak Soul game).

>>7378428
>SRB2's level design is a fucking mess
filtered

>>7379236
Some brief loading, typically less than 10 seconds, is more than a worthwhile trade-off for all the obvious visual improvements and features.

>>7378635
>Saturn version is better
Not soundtrack-wise.

>>7380968
Fuck outta here

>>7380632
He's not wrong. Game's a mess design-wise.

>>7381135
>nooo, you can't have something else than straight corridors!
go back to Crash or Quack Attack

>>7381154
I downloaded it and uninstalled it the moment it asked me to control the camera.

>>7381160
you can choose your camera's controls btw

>>7381154
You can, but there needs to be some actual direction to it for it to work.

>>7381154
Get a grip you manchild. That mess would've failed even in the 90s.

>>7381171
you will always be filtered

>>7380764
Soul....

>>7380731
>Some brief loading, typically less than 10 seconds,
Oh FUCK YOU, I played it on real hardware back in the day so I know you must've either watched a YouTube playthrough that cut out load times, emulated it, or maybe played the Japanese release that supposedly shortened load times at the cost of the level skip code.

>>7381181
Manchild, please. Know your place.

>>7380764
whats this from?

>>7381385
Sonic Robo Blast 2

>>7381385
Concentrated Autism: The Fan Game

>>7381470
>>7381473
Interesting, now that i searched to see more of it it doesn't actually look as good but the sprites are cool.

imagine if this was the game we got

>>7379520
Agreed. It all went to shit after they moved to the Saturn. I guess the limitations bred creativity. That also may have been before Senn was lead designer.
>>7381160
Filtered
>>7381548
This is the soulful era of X-Treme. Shame about that deaw distance, though. If only they could have made Sonic a little smaller, then the rendering wouldn't be such an issue.

>Unreleased Sonic game leaks online
>It's like the shitty bottom pic, not the chad top pic
Why even live

>>7381935
It's complicated

>>7381935
Wait. Wrong order. I'm retarded.

I'll give you that SEGA failed because they had no idea how to do Sonic in 3D (and given Mania's success, never fucking learned) but they were already fucked long before this

>>7380731
>obvious visual improvements and features
wow it rains in rusty ruin zone now, the game is suddenly way better

>>7381134
As much as I love Richard Jacques' work (Sonic R has an incredible soundtrack and his work in JSR is even better than Naganuma's), he's right about the Genesis soundtrack being better. Nothing beats the song for Rusty Ruin Zone on Genesis

>>7378583
>spindash then jump over those platforms, btw
Finally, a part from someone who actually played 3D Blast and knows how Sonic plays.

>>7381940
Yeah I was gonna say that bottom pic looks way better lol

>>7383350
even if you don't want to spin dash for whatever reason, you can completely alleviate the difficulties caused by the perspective by just paying attention to his shadow to land on the platforms

>>7379236
>Saturn's one emerald per act; originally you can get two if you found Tails and Knuckles.
I think that's because Genesis had two different sets of Special Stages to make Tails and Knuckles unique (I think one is considered harder than the other), whereas because the Saturn version was rushed it was reduced to only one set of Special Stages so it made no difference if you used Tails or Knuckles. Not sure if it's intentional or an oversight that this also affected the amount of tries per act but I'm going with oversight because I remember the Saturn stages being a bit harder towards the end.

>>7378276
>it's infamous for being so difficult
Just spindash+jump over it.

>>7373217
>Most of the obstacles are done on a 2D plane, and the ==3d aspect is just level progressing

so just like modern sonic then

No.

>>7381473
gain access to sexual acts

Did its best