/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7363179
An annoyance doesn't need to be challenging.

>>7363179
Yeah, Zelda 2 is annoying and the Wonder Boy/Monster World games basically improved the formula for them to the point of making the original obsolete and a poor representation of the style.

Annoyance is mostly patience
Challenge is mostly skill

You enjoy a challenge. You don't enjoy an annoyance.

>>7363179
If you lose and it was your fault, it's a challenge.
If you lose and it was the game's fault, it's an annoyance.
98% of people will blame the game for their own retardation anyways though.

>>7363179
>>7363256
For what it's worth, I hated Zelda II
BUT
I absolutely adore SMB2jap, go figure.

>>7363179
>this is annoying
>Darknuts in Zelda 1 aren’t

>>7363289
Why do you hate it? Because someone else told you to, or because you suck. It’s a great game and has more soul than <your favorite game>.

>>7363179
Yes.
Random battles with a bunch of mooks you oneshot with a basic attack is an annoyance but not a challenge.

>>7363298
Darknuts are chumps with the right equipment like bombs, but Ironknuckles don't have such options.
>>7363305
I guess we're unallowed to have unique subjective personal experiences.

Just jump and slash.

>Challenge
Based

>Annoyance
Cringe

>>7363339
Actual opinions are not allowed on this board.

>>7363179
Really does not matter nowadays.
Save states exist to counter all this bullshit.

an annoyance by definition isn't fun, but a challenge can be

>>7363484
based

>>7363179
Yes

>>7363305
>game over
>spend 3 minutes walking across the overworld and getting into piss easy random encounters to get back to where I was

Take OoT for an example. Navi was annoyance because it stopped gameplay, water temple was an annoyance because of needing to pause the game to change boots. On the other hand, well there wasn't anything challenging about that game.

>>7363339
They can still block bombs. And you can only carry a handful of them.

>>7363381
This.
My original strategy was to fall-back and then press forward and hit (or duck-hit) when the enemy comes close to you. rinse-repeat.
But jumping and hitting is superior because you don't run out of space to retreat.
It's pretty poorly telegraphed that this is what you should be doing tho...

>>7363179
Challenge is intended difficulty I think.
Annoyance can be anything between too easy/difficult to having to fight the games mechanics more than npc's

>>7363493
>save states exist to avoid challenges
Agreed

>>7363179
Is there an objective difference between a challenge and an annoyance?
Yes.
A challenge is trying to get the high score in arcade Donkey Kong.
An annoyance is falling down a pit in Zelda II.

Mario and Luigi games have a great example of Challenge with their enemy encounters.
Precise button presses, analysing the way enemies attack.
Great challenge. Never annoying.

By comparison Zelda 2 is a great example of annoyance. There are no patterns, no skill, killing them is just a random chance. You have as good a chance at hitting the enemy as you do at flipping a coin.

>>7363179
for Zelda II there is not

>>7363305
>Because someone else told you t
Lone Zelda II shill can't fucking imagine people not liking a shit game they played because its shit.

>soul
always with this shit, you can't possibly make it more obvious that you are just a zoomer hipster contrarian

>>7363179

All I'll say is that this game is hard as shit if you play it on any system with even minor lag.

You've got to play it on a CRT or GBA/3DS.

>>7363886
Why does OoT inspire such derangement in recent years? It was a great game zoomers, deal with it.

>>7365796
All you have to do is stab them in the face (where their shield doesn't reach!)

>>7363179
Absolutely. Challenges aren't usually annoying, just challenging. Annoyances aren't usually challenging, just annoying.

A challenge is, for example, a no-death run of Contra on your NES. An annoyance is, for example, pic related.

>>7365827
Those are some bad reasons, I guess you really have nothing to say.

>>7363305
>Why do you hate it? Because someone else told you to, or because you suck.
Nailed it. Zoomers are incapable of thinking for themselves.

"Annoying" is the "Difficult" of basedboy language

>>7366636
Huh. I missed when The Lost Levels was so beloved. There certainly was no wide backlash and impotent screeching that led Nintendo to make every Mario patformer since a babygame forever, no sir.

>>7363256
yeah this makes sense. ideally, if you fuck up, you should know exactly what you did to fuck up. that's the problem with stealth games and why most of them are pretty flawed.

>>7363179
People that don't want to understand a game's mechanics and nuances will call it annoying, they probably just want to sit back and enjoy some mindless fun, it's a more passive participation from the player.

People with patience and a sharp eye will try to understand game's mechanics and nuances and will call it challenging, in this case the fun is derived from overcoming trials and understanding the game, it's a more active participation from the player.

>>7367317
>accidentally say "yes, I want to hear that all again" to the owl in OoT
>nuance

>>7363197
/thread

>>7366118
those are legitimately annoying parts of the game

>>7363179
How does it feel to be filtered by a literal children's toy?

>>7363196
>non-retro Shantae ripoff did it better!!!
Kill yourself

>>7368270
who's shanty

>>7367364
The owl was right in that case. You weren't paying attention and deserved what you got.

You face a really difficult boss that has a weak point.

Challenge: Figure out the boss's weak point
Annoyance: The boss has a million HP anyways.

>>7363179
Oh look, it's another "Zelda 2" is bad thread

>>7363237
By extension, a challenge becomes annoying when you've no longer invested in the challenge, either by repeated failure or simply not caring to begin with.

>>7368310
It's literally malicious game design since the answers get shifted just so that players that want to get past the text the most, are the most likely to be forced to watch it again and to wait...again.
It's a perfect game aside from that.
Fuck that owl with a peahat.

>>7369679
>players that want to get past the text
You're describing why the owl was right. If you weren't in such a rush and paid more attention you'd be fine. It's a righteous punishment for players who missed the point of the game which is immersion and enjoying the experience, not speeding through button mashes as quickly as possible.

>>7369792
>If you weren't in such a rush and paid more attention
But I've already read that text before, anon. Not everyone is an underage like you.
Now leave.

>>7369401
Well said.

>>7363179
If you're a zoomer shithead its an annoyance, if not its challenge.

>>7369796
>But I've already read that text before, anon.
And that is what makes it a punishment for rushing.

>>7369974
Right. And video games should not ever punish players for making that type of mistake.

>>7369796
If you actually read the text before you wouldn't fall for it. You deserved what you got. OoT was 100% in the right.

>>7369792
>>7369974
>>7370034
>NOOOO YOU MUST PAY ATTENTION TO THE HECKIN STORY. YOU MUST BE PUNISHED FOR TRYING TO GET BACK TO THE GAMEPLAYYYYYYYYY

>>7370054
adhd low iq halo player filtered yet again

>>7370062
>you like story in games or you're a adhd zoomie
lol funny stuff man

>>7370054
kekd
Based zoomer. I appreciate the backup there. Zoomer/Gen X anti-owl alliance 4evr.

>>7370054
>>7370113
Ocarina of Time was all about the cinematic experience though. I think this is why people like you don't get why it was so highly rated. You try to treat it like a technical gameplay gamut when that's clearly not what it's about. You should stick to playing games like Contra for the challenge. Ocarina of Time is for the sights and sounds and early 3D rendered friends you make along the way.

>>7370113
if you are filtered by 10 seconds of dialogue explaining some shit to you then you are an adhd retard no matter how old you are

>>7363179
an annoyance grants you relief when you get past it, not fulfillment.

>>7372043
Poetic.

>>7363305
>zoomer hipster contrarian
Im in my mid 30s, and contrary to whom? People who played it after 1995? Fuck off tranny, it’s a great game.

>>7372098
Oops that was for >>7365827

>>7366118
It is absolute shit compared to either NES title.

>>7372106
Pure nostalgia talking. I love all three, but I and II feel empty compare to OoT that actually feels like a real world with people to talk to and things to do.

>>7370054
>wtf are these words I just want to get into the super deep game play of fucking OoT.

The owl filters another autist

>>7364552

It's not something that needs to be 'telegraphed', it's just a strategy you learn while playing.

>>7363179
>1: Was this foreseeable? If no then it's an annoyance.
>2: Does this element respect my time? If no then it's an annoyance.

>>7365796
when the shield is up, strike low
when the shield is down, strike high
be aggressive and the fight is over in 10 seconds
of course you low t faggots wouldn't know anything about that would ya?

>>7366118
contrarianism is a helluva drug

although i do have to admit OoT was fairly easy, even I could do a 3-heart run as a kid

>>7372278
lmao you're proud of your video game skills aren't ya?

>>7369796
>getting impatient over 30 second text box
who's underage again? go take your ADHD medication zoom zoom

>>7372109
>things to do
Every game has this.
>people to talk to
Zelda I and II also have plenty of these, the second game moreso.

>>7372293
>Zelda I
Gimmie a break. ooohh the shop keeper or the old man who either steals your money, gives you money, or an item. Very vibrant. Like New York City.

>>7372278
This is how the fight should work and it'd be a fun fight, but they move their shields up and down randomly and rapidly

They're not too bad when you jump to attack them, but feels unintended

>>7363179
Yes, but the line is blurred

>>7372391
it's probablly being rendered by an n64.

>something actually fair and challenging
>4chan babies: BAWW NOT FAIR
>some modern garbage game with bullshit artificial difficulty
>4chan babies: LOL GIT GUD

>>7372098
please kill yourself or stick to /v/ and /pol/ this is a niche hobby board so please try and at least ingrain yourself within the culture and don't use meme words like "tranny" or "zoomer" and the like

>>7372421
DAAAAMMMMN. Sony chads win again

>>7372312
How did you beat it without reading them?

>>7372460
No, you stupid filthy tranny cocksucker.

>>7372552
That's like saying you won at life because you died alone, but the cute cashier told you to have a nice day.

Objective? No. What you might consider annoying may be an appropriate challenge for someone younger than you with less skill.

>>7363190
Patience is a skill and a virtue.

>>7363179
Sure

>>7363179
Was Zelda II the original Dark Souls? Not even meming I feel like if it were released later and with better graphics it would've been better received than in '87.