/vr/ - Retro Games

ive never heard of anyone doing something so retarded

>>719825
How is that retarded?

>>719815
There should be converters out there for such a thing, but I'm not aware of them.

>>719825
>>>/v/
And kindly take your kiddie angst bullshit with you.

>>719815
Usually when people talk about using CRTs for classic games they mean using the actual consoles.

get a video card with component/composite/s-video/whatever the fuck you have output

probably going to be older video cards but I'm not sure

>>719834

Sorry OP, but you're an idiot, and crying "/v/" doesnt change that

>>719836
I actually haven't heard of any video card that outputs any of those. Even before the rise of digital displays and LCDs I only remember VGA.

>>719837

But he isn't the OP lel

>>719837
How is he an idiot? If I had the hardware, I would totally emulate through a CRT. I don't have the money for a flash card at the moment.
It seems like a lovely idea.

Stop pointlessly lashing out at others for your own shortcomings.

Only use a TV with a console

If you want CRT for your emulator, get a CRT monitor

Using a CRT TV on a desktop is convoluted and pointless. If you're going to be a purist, be a purist, dont be a tryhard

>>719831
Come on, man, don't be that guy. Not everyone can afford every worthwhile game out there.

>>719836
I think even some Radeon HD 3000 cards have S-video output. Dunno if they can display on a CRT TV, and even then, will it work properly running alongside your main video adapter? I might pick one up at a local pawn shop. They've got a box full of old video adapters.

>>719849
Oh don't mind me. I'm one of those guys that has a flash cart for every console and prefers an LCD..

>>719848
Or maybe he doesn't have the cash for a CRT monitor? Maybe he has a good setup, he just wants to emulate through his TV? Maybe he can make it happen with just some simple cords?

Stop being such a twat, or take your shit somewhere else.

>>719848
People like to play on a CRT because they think it looks better, not because they're trying to make it 'authentic.'

Why is it so hard for people to understand this?

>>719860
Not all of us have tons of disposable income.

>>719856
What exactly DOES a crt monitor look like when emulating at 240p? Or perhaps 480p with a scanline filter? I've been thinking about investing in a CRT monitor for older PC games, if it makes emulation better it might be worth the money.

>>719856

Cash for a CRT monitor? Nigga, 5 seconds on clist and youll find them for free everywhere.

>>719858

Yeah, purists do, but what OP is suggesting sounds like a poser, theyre not even doing it right.

>>719867
I didn't just decide one day to buy absolutely everything. It's gradual acquisitions over a number of years.

>>719842
You kidding? Tons of video cards over the years have had video output.

>>719868
I'm not sure. I've tried to do it with my own old monitor, but that thing is long since broken, and I can't be fucked to go and find one. I'm sure it looks comparable to a CRT TV, though.

>>719870
Or maybe that's just his preference.

>>719836
>>719842
>>719849
pretty much all my old ATI cards did various video outputs including s-video and composite, from the xWhatever series to the 4xxx HDs.

i think it's pretty stupid to combine PC emulator with TV, but it does work, and the feature is on so many graphics cards I can't even count. so if you want to do it, just do it, if you haven't seen a video adapter plug on a video card you've been living under a rock

>>719870
The only potential drawback of emulator + 15KHz CRT compared to real hardware is higher latency, and that depends on controller/emulator configuration.

>>719879

No, its trying way too hard to look cool. It's like the kids who would always wear led zeppelin tees to school and go on about how much more cultured they were than everyone else, except in a more correct analogy to this they would be wearing the shirt backwards.

>>719892
>HURRRRRRR IM SO KEWL AND ORIGINAL
>makes school reference

get out kid, just get the fuck out

>>719892
You sure like to project a lot, and have some severe issues.
Kindly take yourself off of /vr/, no one wants you here.

>>719896

Chances are I'm older than you, and thats why this faux-authentic shit irks me so much.

I use a standard CRT monitor set to 1280x960, using RetroArch with this modded CRT-Geom shader to simulate the CRT TV look:

http://pastebin.com/NwSabew5

This gives me the look I want without having to deal trying to get 15khz 240p output to work.

>>719906
Got pics?

>>719903
I don't give a shit how old you are, I'm 28 if it matters, and I have a CRT TV with 14 original consoles. I told OP it's a stupid idea, but I still provided the info about video cards instead of being a stuck up faggot. It sounds more like OP is experimenting with video output options for emulation rather than "trying hard" to be "cool". Do you really think he invites people over to his place to check out his uber authentic CRT for retro gaming?

>>719910

Sorry, I dont subscribe to the mentality of jerking off a retard

>>719915
and yet you're quite autistic

>>719915
Now you're no longer making any sense.
Put a trip on so I can filter you.

Oh man, op, this is a nice thread to see. I recently embarked on this very project, and it's been great fun with great results.

Groovy is your keyword. GroovyMAME and GroovyUME are emulators designed to output video in the games native resolution, refresh rate and with true visual and audio. Here is a summary:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128879.0.html

>GroovyMAME is a custom M.A.M.E. build mainly aimed at CRT monitors, as we are convinced CRT technology is a must when it comes to enjoying emulation in its full glory.

There's no documentation for this software, so you will have to devote some time to research with the forum's search tool. Here is one thread I found particularly useful, to start with:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116669.msg1244315.html#msg1244315

You'll have to learn a bit about how CRTs output video to get thing configured properly for your specific needs and hardware. Another good place to start:

http://easymamecab.mameworld.info/html/monitor1.htm

Okay, there is your software. Now, hardware: supposedly SCART leads will give you the best picture quality, so if you have access to a SCART TV (standard in Europe, hard to find in US) you can get an adaptor (the one I know about is called the UMSA, Ultimate SCART Adaptor by Arcade Forge) to connect your PC to your CRT.

If not, I understand S-Video out from your graphics card is another good option.

As for graphics cards, only certain ones will do the job you want: to support a range of tiny resolutions. ArcadeVGA is a card specifically designed to so that. My preferred option: the GroovyMAME guy has developed hacked drivers that can be installed for certain ATI cards. More about that in the first link.

>>719910
>Do you really think he invites people over to his place to check out his uber authentic CRT for retro gaming?

Heh. I have two CRTs, and it doesn't exactly impress people. In fact, they wonder why I'm still rocking those big old TVs instead of a nice, sleek LCD. I don't give a fuck, of course. Although I am considering eventually replacing the HD one since it has some issues and doesn't work very well with old vidya for various reasons, but I'm probably gonna wait until it either dies or OLEDs become affordable.

>>719908

>>719953
Looks pretty damn nice.

>>719929
OLEDs are blurry sample-and-hold shit shit just like LCDs.

>>719965

Yeah it looks almost exactly the same as my real CRT TV with real consoles connected. The good thing about CRT monitors is that I can use the zoom function to adjust overscan to what I want it to be.

I have an old video card with S-Video out, but I've never tried it before. I imagine it would end up looking like shit.

>>719927

And why did I bother doing this? Well, it seemed to be common knowledge around classic gamers that CRT are the superior monitor for older videogames. Colours are more vibrant. Games look great at any size. Pixels look more... natural. So I wanted to try it. I also knew I wanted a dedicated emulation computer and a monitor away from my PC I could view on a sofa, so I though I might as well try this CRT thing.

Whether or not you agree it is strictly more attractive, it certainly has a distinctive look, and it is one that I like. It screams videogames :)

I use pic related to do it
doesn't add any noticeable latency, no real drop in quality either, you just have to get the settings right.
they don't make computer monitors as big as TV screens, plus they don't interlace or get NTSC artifacts like a composite connection. Just my preference.

>>719993

More pics from a guy called Scarthunter.

>>719993

Doesn't GroovyMAME only work on ATI cards? Mine is Nvidia.

>>720012

Yeah, that's what I said. I was building a new machine specifically so that worke dout fine, but there are other options. Look in the Soft15hz tool.

>>719994
Mine outputs great for emulation, but the OS looks like a garbled mess unless I set the default text size to fuckhuge. Sorry, no pics.

>>719993
Metal Slug is a terrible example for demonstrating the benefits of CRTs. It runs at 30fps so you might as well use an LCD + filters.

>>720101

My post, not my picture, so I can't comment. but I'm not sure I understand your point. Why does that make a difference?

>>720129
Because the point of CRTs is excellent motion quality, and you're not going to get that with 30fps no matter what display you use. To get that really sharp looking CRT-style motion you need framerate == refresh rate + a flickering display. (or theoretically a really high framerate on a non-flickering display, but AFAIK the fastest such display runs at 144Hz which isn't fast enough, and most /vr/ games are fixed framerate so you can't run them at 144fps anyway).

I use my modded wii for this kind of thing. Classic controller does the job pretty well, and I also have a TV that works with PAL60 but not NTSC so using TV out I would have no choice but to set it to PAL50, which looks just horrible.

I use a 6850HD though and that one does not have such output, instead it has hdmi.

And no, I'm not willing to spend money on something that transforms hdmi into RGB scart.

>>720140

Okay, that makes some sense. What is it about flickering displays that makes it look better to the eye?

Whether filters are a good substitute for the rest of the CRT look, I don't know.

You can either buy an expensive arcadeVGA card or just find any cheap card with composite or s-video output.

>>719997
This.

>>720207
Frames are supposed to be samples of a single point in time. If you display them for longer (ie. more than a brief flickering instant), the position of things is incorrect when it doesn't match that point in time. The human visual system interprets this as blur.

See:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/hardware/gg463407.aspx<wbr>

Since this is the most recent CRT thread I'll ask here:
I want to get a PVM. Do they have S-Video inputs, and what is the difference between RGB and Component with regards to this specific monitor?

>>720552
>I want to get a PVM. Do they have S-Video inputs, and what is the difference between RGB and Component with regards to this specific monitor?
>specific monitor
PVM is a line of monitors, not a single model.

Depending on the specific model, they could have anything from composite, to s-video, RGB, component, even SDI.

>>719815
Get a Wii or use your PC on an HDTV with filters

>>719831
Uh, not really. The Wii has been discussed and agreed upon as a very proficient alternative. Once softmodded you can put retroarch on it, or just play games from VC

Why did SED TVs have to be aborted? We're stuck with shit TV tech for the foreseeable future.

>>721441
All we can hope for is that someone decides to pick them up again once the patents run out.

>PowerStrip
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

>GroovyUME 0.148u2
http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/downloads/list?can=2&q=
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128879.0.html

>GroovyArcade liveCD / liveUSB
http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/
http://code.google.com/p/groovyarcade/wiki/USB_installation

>CRT_EmuDriver
http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

Remember that Soft-15Khz was last updated in 2007 and was written by a female. PowerStrip is a professional program, Linux can do anything (especially with GroovyArcade), and CRT_EmuDriver works for most ATI cards.

>>721807
>and was written by a female.

What does that have to do with anything?

Also keep in mind that buying a new Wii and component cables, softmodding it, and running RetroArch with custom resolutions will solve the question you'll ask if you get 15 Khz signals out of your PC...how to hook your VGA port up to the TV? VGA to component requires a transcoder and good ones cost $140.

>>721815
Says the man with a pre-2007 graphics card apparently.

>>721815

It fights against the patriachy, duh

this is 2013, being made by a woman makes it automatically superior because men are worthless inferior beings, remember?

>>721819
I'm using an HD5750 actually.

>>721826
What are you even going on about? All I asked was what the gender of whoever wrote that program had to do with anything, or why it was worth mentioning.

>>721830
See you want to use the constantly-updated Catalyst_EmuDriver hacked ATI drivers then, they're better than Soft-15Khz. Links are there.

>>721838
Ok, I'm not defending Soft15KHz or anything like that. If it's an outdated program superseded by superior alternatives, it is good to educate people on the matter. I just didn't see what the point of bringing up the fact that it's written by a woman was supposed to accomplish. Mednafen's PS1 core, quite possibly the most accurate PS1 emulator there is (yes, on par if not better than Xebra), is also written by a woman.

An application's merits should always rest on its functionality, not on the identity of those who created it. It's why I can safely say bsnes is a great emulator despite the fact that byuu is the quintessential sperglord of our time.

>>719815

There's VGA to S-video converters otu there. Cost 25 dollars. I'm viewing this thread through one right now on my CRT as I sit on my couch. SD games look phenomenal.

For PS1, I use native resolution, since past it, there starts to be major graphical glitches. On a CRT it looks exactly as it originally did anyways. For GC/PS2 I just use x2 resolution.

>>719815
This defeats the purpose entirely

The "best" way to connect your computer to a crt for emulation purposes is as close as possible to the most ideal way possible for the emulated system was meant to be connected to a crt.

Often "spoof" 240p at apx 15khz.

You don't HAVEto do it the best way possible, it's a sliding scale but that's the best way.

>>721995
Fucking lag out the ass. Poor interpolation and a ton of other problems. Better to use the svideo out on a cheap video card.

>>721857
Emulator authors actually have personality cults? Really?

>>722042
Sadly, yes.

>>722087
That makes me want to bully nerds despite the fact that I myself am a nerd.

>>722087
Wait so Mednafen is a chick? Is there a picture of this irresistile seductress?

>>722112
Mednafen is the name of the emulator. Rypheca is the author. And no, I don't think there are any pics.

>>722180
A real loss for the community I'm sure.

I can get a 20" PVM-20N5U for $20, but it looks like it only has composite and S-video.

I've been looking for months but can't find anything else besides shitty chinese sets and 32" Wegas, so should i just get it?

>>722395
S-video is respectable, so I'd say it's a good deal.

>>720853
>not using the external sync

>>719874
But there aren't reliable and quality flash carts out there for every system.

>>722112

You do realize we are talking transsexual "women" here, right?

Once OLED TVs become mainstream, there's no longer any justification for using 300 pound radiation cannons.

>>723082
so exactly what advantages do OLEDs bring to the table

>>723083
They're supposed to correct two primary deficiencies of LCD and plasma panels, which are response time and color depth.

The response time issue of LCDs isn't normally that big a deal, but it does prevent the NES Zapper from working correctly and possibly some other light gun games.

>>723085
Some light guns work by detecting the electron beam as it's racing down the screen, but the Zapper actually just picks up a white box the game draws for one frame and then erases. Because the phosphor on color CRTs decays rapidly as soon as the electron gun passes over it. LCD pixels don't turn off at the same speed, thus the detection fails.

Phosphors come in various types, some of them long persistence, but the ones found on most color displays have very fast decay time.

>>723085
Since OLED works by simply having tiny LEDs that can be illuminated at any intensity and can be turned on and off fast, you regain some of the advantages of CRTs.

>>723092
I heard from somewhere on here that fighting games don't work on LCDs because the slow pixel response time means that the game processing happens faster than it can update the screen.

>>723101
That was true in the old days, but current gen fighters are almost always played on HDTVs. Even the pro tourney guys do it

>>719842
Some of the Medion PCs Aldi sold over here in Belgium even have SCART output.

>>723085
>They're supposed to correct two primary deficiencies of LCD and plasma panels, which are response time and color depth

...that would assume they're not using leftover 6-bit DACs from LCD TVs (which they almost certainly will for reasons of penny-pinching)

>>723092
>Phosphors come in various types, some of them long persistence

For example, IBM monochrome monitors from the 80s had this super-smeary green phosphor. Tricks like the Zapper used can't work on a CRT like that.

>>722824
I honestly don't think about pseudonyminous computer hackers as gendered. One, because it's relative at best and two, because I've known serious computer hackers and regardless of what your sexual preference is it's extremely likely you wouldn't want to fuck any of them.

>>723082
>Once OLED TVs become mainstream, there's no longer any justification for using 300 pound radiation cannons.

Still fixed pixel, still can't display in native resolution.

So, no.

>>723082
>>723085
>>723097
OLEDs are not bright enough to simulate a CRT raster. They are blurry sample-and-hold shit just like LCDs.

If you want to have an OLED and still be /vr/ just get a Sony BVM. Professional OLED. $ 23000

>>723103
Modern ones are fool. How do you play real arcade games at native refresh and par and resolution any other way? Do people with pcbs really hook them to hdtv only 15 khz is real.

I can see the appeal, for sure.

However, isn't it much worse for your eyesight?

>>723819

No.

>>723521
>OLEDs are not bright enough to simulate a CRT raster

It's my understanding that OLED panels _can_ be made to simulate a CRT, but you'd probably burn the thing out

>>723471
That's an exaggerated problem as a good scaler will take care of it. If you ask me, fixing the lag issue would be of much more practical importance because otherwise no Zapper.

>>723794
I've played fighter tourneys before and he's definitely right that they do use HDTVs for current-gen games, even the top level players.

>>722535
he's probably just using component for the Wii or some other console. Good PVMs support both RGB and component over the same input jacks

>>724721
I don't dispute that they play fighters like that nowadays, but the performance is shit and apparently they're fine with it.

>>724737
You can argue all day long whether it's shit, but the fact still stands that you can't buy a new CRT nowadays and the electron guns in old ones are only gonna last so long. Assuming you're 20 now, you could well live to see the day when there's no CRTs in good working condition left.

>>724746
that sucks, but hopefully OLED panels are perfected by that time

>>724750
One would hope so.

>>724746
Err, that was kind of my point. We're basically _forced_ to play modern games on LCDs even when they're a genre like fighters that perform like ass on them.

>>719997
This one is good, just make sure you send that box a 640x480 or less signal. Anything higher and I always notice visual lag and screen tearing, probably because the encoding chip is too underpowered to really handle it.

They used to have 4:3 LCDs about 10 years ago but you can't get anything other than widescreen now. Of course those old ones have shitty outdated panels compared to the ones today.

Too bad; if there was a modern 4:3 LCD that had the proper native resolution for SDTV, I'd buy it.

>>724773
You'd still not be able to play Duck Hunt or fighters properly because of the response time of LCD panels

>>724773
Those things aren't made anymore because sheeple want widescreen. Nobody cares about us retro gamers because we're not worth enough money :(

>>724783
Like I said, modern fighters are all played on HDTVs even by the pro guys and it doesn't appear to stop them.

>>722535
>>724734
Playstation 2 over component, sync on green.

Never had a problem with sync interference, so I don't care.

>>724792
I know that, but like _I_ said, people don't care or even realize the inferior game performance they're getting.

>>724792
Do they use them on LCD or plasma TVs? Because the latter are supposed to not suffer from as much lag.

>>724798
I'm sure the former. There aren't that many plasma TVs around and manufacturers are beginning to drop them in favor of OLED.

>>724798
There is some lag. it's not as bad, but it's still there.

Actually even when you're just doing boring computer tasks, the silky smoothness of CRTs is something missed on modern displays.

>>724837

>tfw FW900

>>724837
>tfw have a 120Hz LCD (not that motion smoothing shit, a real one) and it pains me greatly to use other monitors or run it in 60Hz.

it's so much obviously smoother that the only demo I have to do for people when I show them it for the first time is changing the refresh rate from 60 to 120 and moving the mouse cursor around the desktop

>>724837
I'd rather use a 120Hz LCD for boring computer tasks. Even at 120Hz CRT flicker is visible when you move your eyes. I'm probably the biggest advocate of CRT flicker on /vr/, but for non-gaming you don't need maximum motion quality. 60Hz LCD is unacceptable though.

>>724835
>>724797
>Implying world class fighters are unaware of isplay lag

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/SRK_Recommended_Fight_Gear

I recently bought a YEM (Yamashita Industrial Manufacturing) CVS-980A scan converter to downconvert pc video, and it is an amazing beast of commercial grade video hardware in a heavy rackmount enclosure. Notice the sheer number of inputs and outputs this thing has, and the high grade connectors. This converter is simply packed with circuit boards (which plug in a backplane) and components.

This unit originally cost $18000, and I got mine a month back on eBay for $9.99. Who knows what this thing is capable of, as there are loads of adjustments on the front panel and no documentation to be found on the net.

>>724837
60Hz flicker is worse on larger CRTs, although you still notice it even on little 13" TVs

>>724927
Still, they're nonetheless playing modern fighters on HDTVs exactly as the other anon said instead of oldskool 15Khz RGB monitors

>>724893
CRTs always hurt your eyes if you have to stare at them long enough. That said, the response time difference is noticeable right away when you use one and then an LCD. For example, move your mouse pointer around the desktop and notice how much faster it goes on the CRT.

>>724970
No.

>>724970
I ran my old CRT at 100Hz, which is about as fast as they got at reasonably high resolutions. It did not hurt my eyes, but the flicker was noticeably when I moved my eyes. You can buy a 144Hz LCD right now. Motion quality of 144fps content on a 144Hz LCD will be almost identical to 100fps on a 100fps CRT.

(I haven't actually seen a 144Hz LCD, but my 120Hz LCD has motion quality almost as good as the 100Hz CRT, so I figure 144Hz will be fast enough to match it.)

Of course, this is irrelevant to most /vr/ games that run at fixed 60fps.

You can really see the motion blur if you run a 60hz LCD monitor and a 60hz CRT monitor side by side. That's what my current setup is, the LCD is for normal computer tasks, while the CRT is a secondary display that is used for emulation (and for some extra screen space)

>>724958
If a game is designed to run on HD digital displays, and is played on a high quality zero lag displays then there's not going to be any lag. You get the heinous lag when you play Genesis Street Fighter 2 on some shitty LCD is a whole different matter.

>>725045
Many retro games run at sub-60 fps. On NES, Genesis, and SNES games, the programmers often purposely tried to avoid 60 fps because you'd get horrible dot crawl.

>>726237
Ironic that SF2 will work perfectly even on the shittiest B&W portable set from the 70s, but your expensive 42" TV chokes on it.

>>727647
The vast majority of 3rd and 4th generation console games run at 60fps. Nobody lowered frame rate because of dot crawl. It's from 5th generation oneward when framerate went to shit.

>>727670
That isn't true. It was very common on NES games to slow down the scroll speed because of dot crawl.

>>727704
List a single game that does that.

>>727720
Bad Dudes, MM1, SMB2, SMB3, Double Dragon, etc

Games that run at full 60 fps include SMB, Castlevania, and Kiwi Kraze. As you can see, they have dot crawl like no tomorrow.

>>727727
>Bad Dudes
Low FPS sprites, but scrolling is 60fps

>MM1, SMB2, SMB3
Full 60fps

>Double Dragon
One of the rare NES games that runs at 30fps

I have a PVM that only has S-video and composite inputs and i wanted to know how i can convert RGB to S-video so i can get S-video output from a Mega drive without modding it.

Would i be able to convert RGB to VGA so i can use pic related?

>>719848

This. CRT monitors are more flexible anyway

I just want everyone to know that I played Street Fighter 2's official ROMset from the current MAME/FBA last night on a Trinitron in true 384x224p via component output, scaled properly. My framerates were synced to the TV's refresh rate though. Is this failure?

>>728340
Can you just buy a Mega-Drive S-Video connector? Sega's pretty good with hookups.

>>731570
Nope. Major pain in the ass to get s-video out of a Genesis, and not every system can do it.

I just use my psp until my s-video cable arrives(for my laptops tv-out), image quality is shitty, and ps1/psp/snes games has terrible lag making them unplayable(with tv-out), but other than that, it does its job and its better than nothing, for now.

And I guess I could emulate on my PC, but I perfer playing on TV than on PC.

>>732554
>that aspect ratio
Fuck you.

>>731561
If you can't change the TV refresh rate, it's better than skipping/duplicating frames.

I just load all of the emu's onto a modded xbox.
GBA games on a huge ass CRT is fucking glorious.

>>732640
And yet the XBox only outputs in 480i while consoles output in 224p or 240p

>>732640
I do that shit too. I even modded a couple of controllers with vga ports and an old NES and Genesis controller to input into them

>>719815

If you can find a CRT with a HDMI port you'll be laughing.

In terms of prefernece, the modded Wii + Injected VC Titles is my favorite emulation method for NES, SNES, TG16, and Genesis; the HTPC is my fallback emulation system, and a great MAME box for when friends come over.

>>733731
The Wii's homebrew emulators (and even most of the official VC ones including Neo Geo which you can inject roms into) support output in 240p/224p.

>>733838

I'm told that it doesn't do it that well and that the GX scaler screws it up sometimes

>>734009
All depends on the emulator. Some do it better than others, and some don't do it at all.

>>719848
HOWEVER...
what about using a CRT PC monitor with your consoles

>>734052
Quite literally the best way to play dreamcast.

>>734052
15hz RGB to 31khz RGBHV converter should work.

Some CRT monitors may sync to 15hz RGB natively, but many don't.

>>719906

Same guy here,
I'm now using a further modified CRT-Geom with sharpness increased a bit
http://pastebin.com/YqcdrSYJ
And I also set the color temperature to 9300K, because it seems most TVs did this.
This pretty much gives me a flawless image that looks exactly like the real console would output, I can't really argue against it, even it it isn't truly 240p

>>734208
Goddamn it, I need to get myself another CRT monitor.

>>734208
That's actually sharper than it's possible to get out of a real NES let's see Sonic on it. Has anyone posted a true 240p RGB sonic pic itt yet? I think KyaDash uses SVideo.

>>734301

File too large for 4chan so I uploaded it to dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjkhrf5vhyg7urx/IMG_20130528_190123.jpg

>>734208
That trick is similar to how RetroArch tricks the Wii into producing a variety of native progressive 15Khz outputs

>>734009
My GX scaler decided to output 320x240 as 4 panes of 320x240 in a 480 tall interlaced signal. Every other progressive input this morning was garbage. Rebooted, flawless.

>>734063
great
so is there any kind of cheap way to convert the composite out of every console ever to VGA or DVI so my monitor can actually use it?

>>719836
This.
I connected my pc to my crt television with a GeForce 6200 gt, pretty old.

>>734301
This is the PAL version of Sonic running at 15 Khz through VGA to SCART on a UK SCART TV via MESS emulator in native 256x224p (wasn't US Genesis 320x224p?) This is also a true 50 Hz signal.

>>719993

> :)

Has anyone been following the news on the new SNES mod for early (first few years) production run consoles? They can tap component from the chips now, except the two non-green lines have 3.3 volts on them so you can play it but it will blow your TV up eventually.

Has there been any development on a reliable mod to decrease the voltage while maintaining the signal?

>>734769
>They can tap component from the chips now
Oh that sounds cool-
>It draws too much power and will literally destroy your TV
Yeah that uh doesn't really sound worth it yet, maybe if they fix that MINOR flaw

Trinitron help: I have a fatty 27" running component from my Wii w/ RetroArch and spoofed GX resolutions all perfect. Only thing I need to do is adjust properly. I can't find the remote.

When I go to adjust the color, my only choice is red. How am I supposed to deal with this, is this right or can I modify green and blue also? Games through component are crazy vibrant. Even the menu screen at 512x224p looks just like a SNES while 512x240p gives it that NES feel. Busting out 608x224p for Turtles in Time and the X-Men. Need adjustments though, do I need the remote?

>>734801
No one's lost a TV yet, those hot lines give you some killer colors. Off to find screenshots.

Since the RGB mod for the SNES produces inferior quality, the component is said to produce a superior signal.

I have literally nothing to contribute to this thread, any of these threads, but I do want to say that I find you hardcore motherfuckers who are all about the CRTs and proper visual signals and shit so incredibly badass. You guys are serious. I am not trolling and not trying to be a dick here, I am absolutely serious. I'm impressed.

>>734808
Completed mod 01 by user marvelus10 of nintendoage

>>734745
There are a lot of cheap scalers out there that will do exactly that.


The only problem is shit quality/conversion and mountains of lag that they tend to add on. It costs a nice bit of money for a good scaler.

This is usually applies to playing on LCD/Plasma/etc, but I believe most of it goes for any 31khz display:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

As someone else said, multisync monitors are something to think about as well.

>>734808
>RGB mod for the SNES produces inferior quality
What? The original SNES does RGB native, and the mini, when modded is stated to be even better.

>>734808
Completed mod 02 by user Guntz

>>734836
Units other than the 1-Chip or Mini are known to be strictly inferior.

>>734751
That is some kind of emulation but we need either a higher res or a tighter focus on the Sonic sprite. That sprite as he appears at the start of area 1 is sort of the yardstick.

Also Splash Woman from Mega Man 9. Hard mode there.

I'm still debating on whether to buy flash carts or attempt to emulate proper analog signals so by no means do I have a bias at this point. If money was no object then flash carts would be the name of the game but DAMN are them things pricey.

>>734865
I can give you some close-up Link sprites on a PVM through a variety of inputs. KyaDash doesn't like the Component example but this is not how the new component mod looks.

Note that this shows off the inferiority of RGB output from non-1Chip and Mini SNES units.

>>734836
Also the superior Mini cannot output RGB natively and requires a mod.

>>734879
>inferiority

What? The middle and right look better, they're clear and less desaturated

>>734865
Here's Sonic on a real Mega-Drive then, on a PVM, through both composite and RGB.

>>734879
Yeah I discovered that the mini can't even output Svideo. I'm still not sad though because I traded my full size SNES for a Neo Geo Pocket Color about ten years ago and I bang a girl that works at teh video store who I'm sure will let me swap out my mini for another SNES. Is there any way to tell a 1chip from an original SNES from the case?

Link up close:
RF < Composite < S-Video < Component (converted [scaled?]) < RGB all on PVM

>>734869
That's what I was implying with the mini being better part.

>>734865
What's this about Splash Woman now?

>>734879
I don't like the component example because it RGB being run through a converter, and makes it seem as the the gap in quality between it(component) and RGB is larger than it actually is.

I'd really like to see a comparison of those and native component.

>>734893
>inferiority... ...non-1Chip and Mini

>>734902
The native component output capability wasn't known when these comparisons were taken and I'm not sure he'd hook up such a mod to a PVM now that it's known to be hot. He's probably using a cheap converter like the kind that come with a video card to convert to component.

>>734902
durr I missed the non part sorry.

>>734910
no way is component or even composite that desaturated, my tv is way clearer with just composite

>>734893
The middle and right are supposed to look better, this is showing how the isolated PPU in the earlier SNES units caused a lower quality signal from the RGB out.

>>734910
There are PVMs with RF tuners?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-C59SAVUow

Video of the Component SNES mod

>>734927
He took the weird input ones on his Sony Trinitron TV.

>>734918
I don't expect him specifically to do it, nor do I want anyone to risk damaging their equipment in an attempt.

Just saying that it would make for a much more accurate comparison.

>>734927
RF to Composite possibly?

>>734939
Damn that's pretty.

I just scored this for $1, including the stand.

>>735038
VCR too? That's a real nice VCR. I assume the Tron has component inputs

>>734902
Splash woman is a dead giveaway if someone is emulating at too high a resolution, even with a properly adjusted scanline generator or filter.

>>735101
what

I don't get it. Have we forgotten Mega Man 9 wasn't an actual NES game now?

>>735101
Ah

>>735110
Dolphin, I would assume.

>>735110
>>735121
Wasn't Mega Man 9 exclusively a 480i game? I seem to remember being pissed off at how no matter what, you couldn't get either 240p or 480p from it.

If you want to see why your XBox can't emulate to a CRT properly just fire up Mega Man 3 Snake Man level.

>>735038
what the fuck.
fuck you.
the closest i can find to this costs $160 (big crt + stand).

>>735341
>lolwat?

For $120 you could get a pvm from ebay and a stand from Walmart

>>735128
Seems that way.


>Download WiiMednafin at the recommendation of a ma/cr/ick anon a few weeks ago for use with GB/GBC/GBA games
>No flickering(240p) and scaled correctly
Damn they look good. Can almost fill the screen too thanks to overscanning

Have some Puyo Puyo

>>735341
With those prices, I'm really hoping you're in Australia.

>>735442
>ma/cr/ick
ma/vr/ick*

So if I buy a SNES (original model) I can hook it up with RGB normally right? Or am I better off just using S-video with it on my PVM?

>>735542

If it has SCART input you can just use a "gamecube" SCART cable.

Otherwise SCART to BNC breakout adapter.

>>735454
>wiimednafen
Is that yuv component or rgb?

>>735698
Component

>>719906
Why not just send it 640x480 and do a simple scanline filter (hardware circuit or software). Its a crt.

>>735721
Wow! I'm hooking my Wii up to my pvm! Can I see how NES looks in double strike mode? How's the input lag?

>>735735
You'll have to give me a moment or two, I'll have to hook it back up.

Really not any discernible lag that I can tell, but that's just me.

Here's some Balloon Fight via Animal Crossing(S-Video@480i)

>>735735
>>735747
Forgot to ask, any game in particular you want to see?

I think some filters can look pretty good.

>>735750
Mario 3 or Zelda, something real standard. Maybe Castlevania.

>>735753
Do you people have your faces 2 inches from the screen? Didn't your parents ever tell you to get your head out of the tv?

>>735727
I remember trying this long ago on my old Sony W900, a humongous 24" CRT. It results in extremely big scanlines. It does not look appealing at all. What he's doing is actually pretty sensible by comparison.

>>735770

what do you mean?

>>735780
He has bad eyesight.

I may be starting to get old but I have glasses I can wear for gaming.

>>735762
I can do all three.

Castlevania first; None of the pictures of the first screen came out good, so here's the second.

>>735815
Close of Simon

>>735821
Zelda Title Screen

>>735828
>tfw no sword

>>735830
>>735821
This might be the RGB NES solution I've been looking for although the pixels are a little bit pincushiony. I wonder if rgb scart would be better.

>>735830
Outside the first dungeon

>>735846
the pixels are a little bit pincushiony
?

Title of SMB3

>>735853
World 1 Map

>>735859

>>735853
The edges (left and right) are slightly convex

>>735881
Well light pixels are convex, dark ones are concave. I still ordered component cables for the wii just now.

>>735881
Chalk that up to the camera lens and the curvature of the screen itself.

That and the fact I'm still using the default configuration this thing had when I got it.

To show it's not from the emulator or the system, here's some FFVII.

>>735907
Is that RGB or YUV component though?

Component, but any pincushioning you might see isn't caused by it.

>>735881

That's what an actual CRT beam scan actually looks like you shitfuck.
Did you expect it to look like those retarded SCAYNLAINZ filters on emulators that just black out every other line?

>>735727

Because that doesn't work as well.
At 640x480, the monitor is already showing it's own scanlines, adding more over those doesn't turn out well. You're better off just using the Pixellate shader to hide aspect ratio scaling errors at that resolution, that will give you a line doubled VGA look.

>>735965
Jeez, Man. Hostility. I'm just trying to get the best picture possible. I got a PVM that does component yuv as well as rgbs so I'm trying to establish if there's any difference between the two when the yuv is displaying an interlaced or line doubled signal. This will effect what cables I buy.

>>735815
let's compare with the actual carts

>tfw cellphone camera

>>736019

>>736021

>>736025

>>736028

>>736030

>>736032

>>736028
Here's a bit brighter picture of Zelda.

Didn't focus as well as the other, so I didn't post it.

>>736035

What's up with the grid-like pattern on those shots?

>>736036
eh I'm just bored at 4AM. I just snapped a few pictures and posted them no matter how shitty they looked if they weren't blurry.

>>736040
NES is composite only, Bro. Sux. Even Master System puts out RGB

>>736045
>bored at 4AM
Same here.

Not completely sure why I'm still up.

>>736047
I know, I use one on a Sony WEGA. I guess it's just a composite artifact that rears its ugly head on a still shot.

>>736047

That's not what composite artifacts look like.

>>736040
it's mostly my shitty camera. Looks 1000 times better in person.

>>719815

Buy a vga to s-video conversion box. I'm using that right now to view the thread. Not 100% perfect, as the lowest resolution I can get is 480p, where as 240p would be optimal. But it looks REALLY good.

2D is great. 3D only needs to be at 480p internal resolution to look good. PS2 and GC I use at x2 resolution.

>>719848
>If you want CRT for your emulator, get a CRT monitor

I don't like how small CRT monitors are.

>Using a CRT TV on a desktop is convoluted and pointless.

Pretty easy. Just connect the box and you're good to go. They cost 25 dollars.

>>719993
>Pixels look more... natural.

What happens is the game is scaled x4 for a 1080p monitor, which is why the pixels turn into huge blocks.

>>724759
>This one is good, just make sure you send that box a 640x480 or less signal.

I have set to 480p. but I can't do 320x240. When I do, it looks very, very blurry. Maybe it's just taking 480p and downsampling it?

>>722041
>Fucking lag out the ass.Poor interpolation and a ton of other problems.

{{citation needed}}

>>721857
>Mednafen's PS1 core, quite possibly the most accurate PS1 emulator there is (yes, on par if not better than Xebra), is also written by a woman.

It's getting better. But it's still technically beta. After the 0928 update, it seems to work with everything I throw at it. But there are some games that aparently don't work still. But it's just close to perfection.

>>736513

Also CRTs have non-square pixels. They are thinner and little rectangles.

>>736564
I have a CRT VGA monitor in the corner of the room that I could power up to check, but I'm pretty sure it has square pixels.

>>736626
you would be wrong

>>736564
>shadow mask

not even once

just kidding

>>735038
Sweet. I got pic related (not actually mine obviously) for free at a garage sale a few weeks ago. AWESOME set for retro gaming, and it's an EDTV so it works with flash guns too. Guy who gave it to me had a hand-built stand he threw in with it for $20 which holds all 6 of my consoles.

Based trinitrons.

>>736564
CRT's don't have "pixels" at all, brah.

Made a thread about this the other day. It's not very CRT related though.

Plugged in my SNES to this standard def 4:3 LCD I had. Turned out I kept getting this weird issue where the picture wasn't centered and it overlapped causing those lines. I tried using 3 standard composite cables I had laying around and it still gave me the issue. An anon told me that I should try using s-video instead, so later on this week/weekend I'm heading to my local game store to pick up an s-video cable. Hopefully that'll fix the problem I'm having.

>>736684
S-video is clearly superior to composite anyway, so good luck bruh

>>736676
>CRT's don't have "pixels" at all, brah.

Then whatever the fuck you call those rectangle things.

>>736638

Shadow mask vs. Apertere grille is just a matter of preference really. I grew up with Shadowmasks and like them the most.

>>736932
>Then whatever the fuck you call those rectangle things

CRTs have no physical pixels like LCDs, just areas of the screen illuminated by the electron gun.

>>736684
>heading to my local game store to pick up an s-video cable.

S video is better, and you should be using that anyways. Try making a request on Freecycle and other boards, as someone might just give you an s-video cable. I have a few lying around my place, and I imagine many others do to.

>>737103

They have strips of red/green/blue. Those are kinda pixels.

>>737152

That's the phosphor mask, those do not map to pixels 1:1

So if I were to buy something like this
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/TV-RCA-AV-S-video-In-to-PC-VGA-LCD-CRT-Out-Converter-Adapter-Switch-Box-/380635151785
and used a CRT computer monitor, that would produce an alright quality? Sick of games looking like ass on the giant LCD I've been using

>>737624

>saging and asking for advice

>>738882
>implying my question is worth bumping the thread for
or did you think sage was a downvote?

>>737624
No. They all use the same shitty chinese de-interlacer which doesn't work properly with 15KHz progressive signals.

>>736932
>Shadow mask vs. Apertere grille is just a matter of preference really.
No, it's a matter of energy efficiency, and aperture grilles are 2 to 3 times more efficient.

>>736054
>Hook up a Genesis to my Wega via RF
>3D comb filter is sharp enough to pick out the dithering patterns
>...over motherfucking RF

>>736664
Uh, that TV is not an EDTV. I have its smaller cousin, the 27fs100, and it only goes up to 480i. I also have a 30xs955, which is a CRT HDTV, and that does 480p.

I've got a 30FS13 but someone fucked up the comb filter settings real bad (not to mention, the convergence is a little off).

I already know the service menu inside-out. Remote is in the mail...

>>738882
Go away.

>>734208
I have an CR Monitor, but i dont want to use retroarch, what is the best setting? (monitor resolution, 4:3 vs 8:7 aspect ratio, etc)

>>736684
Some digital displays have issues with 240p/224p signals, but every SNES owner should have an S-Video cable anyway

>>739479
>4:3 vs 8:7 aspect ratio
4:3, there isn't even room for argument.

>>739498
and how can i get the best image possible with it? What resolution should i use? I emulate with snes9x

>>739505
You're emulating, that is all up to personal preference.

>>739505
just bite the retroarch bullet and use that anon's shader/settings

>>739505

bSNES XML shaders should work in SNES9x
But RetroArch has more advanced output options.

>>739505


Try 480p, 4:3.

I've heard 240p is possible, if you increase the refresh rate to 120hz, but I haven't tried this myself.

>>739515
Well, Snes9x can use shaders as well, so it's not like he HAS to use RetroArch.

>>740116
When did I say it did?

>>738928
>No, it's a matter of energy efficiency, and aperture grilles are 2 to 3 times more efficient.

Aren't they also like smaller? Like aren't they medical monitors?

>>737624

If you use that, might as well use a real CRT tv. With a monitor, you can just use a VGA cable.

And yes, even on a CRT monitor at 480p, the games look amazing.

I know there are quite a few people with PVM monitors but is there anyone here with a BVM?

>>741664
No they actually cost money like Framemeisters and RGB modded NESes and transcoders. /vr/ only spends on worthless dusty carts how'd I do

Use no filters no bilinear 4:3 1280x720 fullscreen this will give you big fat clear pixels. Mess it up from there if you want.

>>742020
thanks, but the monitor goes only up to 1024 * 768

>>741664
nahI can't justify paying money for a BVM when i got my PVM for free. Maybe when it dies out I'll grab one.

>>740770
>Like aren't they medical monitors?
Some are, but they make consumer models up to something like 37in.

Y'all just lost.

>>742871
LoL I'm sure it's just jumped off that vga port and the a/v jacks. Still needs to have the right drivers.

>>742176
The biggest AFAIK is 40", not counting projection CRTs.

I'm curious /vr/, I might be getting a PVM tomorrow and I'm curious as to how I could improve the sound of it - would connecting some stock computer speakers qualify as an upgrade over the ones built into the TV? And if not, does anyone know of some inexpensive options for getting a better sound out of my games?

>>743791

pc speakers are all shit, id suggest tracking down a cheap amplifier and some speakers from clist (which should be doable under 20 bucks if not free)

>>743791
Nearly all PVMs, if they have speakers at all, are mono. Getting external speakers are almost a must.

Get an amp and some stereo speakers, and call it a day.

>>741664
I have a BVM but I think it's one of the worse models(BVM-1910)
Just got it recently and still figuring things out with it.

What type of video would give me the best possible picture on a Dreamcast? VGA?

>>743871
Yes.

>>743791
honestly taking a speaker out one of those tiger handheld games would be an upgrade. They are not made for sound.

>>743871
you can mod a vga box to go between 15 and 31 so you can have sweet vga and rgb

>>743895

Would it work with a cheap one?

Do you have any links to a modding guide?

>>740770
>Aren't they also like smaller? Like aren't they medical monitors?
All of Sony's Trinitron displays are aperture grille screens (they developed the technology; that's their trademark name for it). This is everything from 9in (portables) up to 40in (stuff like the XBR700/800).

>>742928
Projection CRTs typically employ 3 monochrome tubes with filters or single color phosphors to produce a color picture. They have theoretically infinite physical resolution - limited only by the analog electronics driving and focusing the guns. (This is why, for example, you could get $40,000 Barco CRT projectors that do 4K HD.)

>>743902
The Dreamcast uses one pin on the video connector to indicate 15KHz/31KHz. Just wire a switch to disconnect it when you want 15KHz RGB through a "VGA" box.

>>735815
>>735821
>>735828
>>735830
>>735849
>>735853
>>735859
>>735874
Okay my component cables haven't arrived yet but I've installed Wiimednafen now. I played some Super Mario Brothers to test it. The music seemed slower to me. I'm going to have to do a side by side comparison but if this emulator doesn't run at 100% speed even in NES mode I may have a problem with it.

My Sony Trinitron is kind of blurry on the left and right sides of the screen. It's not really ever even noticeable unless there's a menu or something on that side, because it looks blurrier by comparison.

I was just wondering why this is. I'm using Component input. Has anyone else had a problem like this?

>>744083
It's a symptom of age on the gun, I'm afraid. Maybe the beam has further to travel toward the edges and it's the first place you notice it not scanning 100% accurately.

>>719837
this is not /b/ so we dont have Id´s faggot
And no Op is not that you are the one.

>>744112
You really busted that guy for that thing he said 5 days ago.

>>744092
That doesn't sound good. It's not going to die soon, is it?

It's not ancient; it was manufactured in 2000. But still, it's older than I ideally wanted.

>>744130
It's the number of hours on the tube not necessarily the gun. Just think of it as the monitor starting to show the first visible signs of age. CRTs themselves just don't suddenly stop working unless you break them. The power supply or the tuners might but the tube just slowly becomes blurrier and lighter and loses geometry.

>>744130
It's the number of hours on the tube not necessarily the age in years. Just think of it as the monitor starting to show the first visible signs of age. CRTs themselves just don't suddenly stop working unless you break them. The power supply or the tuners might but the tube just slowly becomes blurrier and lighter and loses geometry.

>>744015
>NES

Try out RetroArch. It comes with a core for Nestopia, which is pretty much all you'll ever need.

>>744195
Getting 240p from Retroarch's wii port is quite the task.

>>744213

GBAtemp faggots kept badgering Squarepusher over it and pissed him off so it's probably not going to be fixed

>>744620
240p is the whole point of me using the Wii to emulate on.

>>744620
That's what I've heard.

I saw a thread somewhere saying, the only way it'll get done is if someone writes the required code for it themselves, and submits it.

>PVM Photo Folder is 2.3GB / 1200 files
I need to sort this before I take any new pictures.

Mednafen does 240p fine. Point this out to the great "SquarePusher" and he will say OK USE MEDNAFEN THEN GOOD LUCK TRY TO FIND A RECENT UPDATE HAHAHAHA I CONTROL EVERYTHING I WILL BAN YOU IF YOU ASK ABOUT 240p AGAIN

>>744213
Hitting left or right a few times when you switch the core? I guess for some people it's a major issue. If you refer to SquarePusher's refusal to implement automatic resolution switching, perhaps he feels that if you're so adamant that you know the correct resolution to set then you can do it yourself.

>>744760
I don't even have it downloaded

I'm just going off what I've been told and seen.

Speaking of CRT; are there any recommended models of CRT TVs/monitors? Also, HOW DO I STOP THE GOD AWFUL WHINING SOUND? My CRT monitor doesn't make a noise but my CRT TV is so loud that I get a headache every time I play a game.

>>744767
>My CRT monitor doesn't make a noise
Because it runs at 31.2khz.

You can hear the noise from your TV because it operates at 15.6khz, which is with in our hearing range.

>>744760

240p on the Wii is apparently very hacky so I guess that's why they're reluctant to do automatic resolution switching

>>744773
Oh, is there a reason why TVs have a lower frequency?

>>744760

There's also the issue where Squarepusher is the type who uses HD scaling filters on a flat screen LCD TV and thinks that using CRTs is just "rose tinted nostalgia", so he's not inclined to care about it in the first place.

>>744779

You don't need any higher to drive a standard def display, and the equipment to run at lower freq is simpler and cheaper.

>>744814
So are there any models that get past this issue? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.

>>744779
Because of the lower resolution they display, the horizontal frequency doesn't need to be as high.

LCD/Plasma/OLED screens also happen to operate at 31.6khz.

>>744825
I've noticed it's really on a set to set basis. I can just barely hear my GXTV, but my PVM is quite audible when on.

>>744754
The speed seems wrong on mednafen though

>>744874
Depends on the game. I find it can be laggy with Genny games sometimes.

For me Wiimednafen works fine for the most part on CRT

Mednafen may do "240p" but can it do 512x224p like RetroArch on Wii? Can it do 608x224p? Can it do 384x224p? 576x224p? Guess what RetroArch does them all and more.

I got my PVM today but I can't hook up composite video (I know, I plan to get better inputs soon). The inputs in the back will fit audio, but video isn't going to fit. What stupid detail am I missing?

Also mine didn't come with a remote, am I missing out on much?

is there an actual advantage to using CRTs or is it just hipsterism?

>>747370
There's some technical advantages such as being able to use light guns, but otherwise it is mostly a hipster thing. People want that authentically retro display aesthetic with scanlines and flicker and all that.

>>747376
Anyone else think the words "hipster", "filter", and "edgy" should result in an autoban?

>>747376
>There's some technical advantages such as being able to use light guns
details?

>>747370
zero lag, more natural scrolling/movement, native resolutions, natural anti-aliasing

>>747376

You're right that

>People want that authentically retro display aesthetic with scanlines and flicker and all that.

But what does that have to do with hipsterism? I do it because *it* looks cool, not because I think it will make *me* look cool.

>>747381
Some light guns work by detecting the electron beam, although the NES Zapper does it by drawing a white box for one frame and erasing it (this takes advantage of the rapid decay time of color CRT phosphor). LCD panels can't turn their pixels off as fast, thus this trick fails.

>>747357
BNC connectors brah if you're impatient you can run down to a radioshack and pick them up for an extreme price. or grab them online for pennies.

>>747383
if CRTs are so great, why can't I buy a new one

>>747392
I worked at Best Buy and trust me, nobody wants those monstrosities back. Have you tried lugging one up a flight of stairs?

It really, really, really sucks

>>747380

Yes. Add "autism", "autist" and other variations to that list too

>>747392
They're too heavy, delicate, and expensive to manufacture compared to flat panels. also they give you a headache if you stare at them too long.

>>747383
Anti-aliasing is only really an issue with 3D games though...

>>747392

Because it's cheaper to produce shitty TN panels.

Has little to do with any quality differences.

>>747383
Most of these can be solved with a good scaler box like the XRGB, although you still can't work around the light gun problem.

>>747392

Because television manufactures don't build things especially for a tiny sub-sub-subset of videogame players?

>>747392
The sheeple want cheaper and lighter weight displays. As I said, most average people shopping for TVs at Target aren't /vr/ hipsters.

>>747383

Add good black levels to that list.

Only CRTs can do all those at once, no "current" displays can beat CRT in all aspects, they all have some negative aspect, usually sample and hold blur.

>>747409
Some people claim that LCD lag creates problems with fighter games, although I question that since all the modern ones are played on HDTVs with no problem.

>>747418
>Add good black levels to that list

This is a myth if ever I saw one. The vast majority of consumer CRTs made were not that great. People have a rather distorted idea that all of them were Wegas from 2005. I've seen many, many CRT TVs with wholly mediocre picture quality.

>>747424

They were better than the vast majority of consumer TN panels, that's for sure.

>tfw no good CRT monitor

>>747427
Most higher end HDTVs don't use shit-level 6-bit TN panels

>>747427
I dunno; tons of them had washed-out color, poor black level, bad convergence, etc

>>747376
You mean the video game equivalent of vinyl hipsters

The thing you should remember is that you can't just go down to the Salvation Army and get any old CRT TV. It must be a make and model approved by the /vr/ hipsters or they won't be your friend or talk to you.

>>747439
Kinda

Did the anti-CRT squad suddenly show up or something?

>>747439

lel

>>747439

literally the ONLY reason I use CRT's is because input lag on HDTV's are retarded bad.

frame perfect jumps? nope

>>747445
considering the difference between a professional grade CRT and a crappy thrift store one is probably less than $50 these days, you're kind of a lazy moron if you buy a shitty CRT

>>747445

Funnily enough, I went to Goodwill the other day and there were two flat-screen Trinitrons with Component inputs there. One 32" for $16 and a 36" for $20.

>>747457

>>747456

>>747424
Many CRTs are shitty, but the difference is that you can take basically any CRT TV ever made and your games will work on it and display correctly. There is literally no consistency with HDTVs. You have several kinds of panel types and the quality of the internal scalers varies widely.

>>747451

"shitty" 27 inch CRT that most people grew up with: 25 dollars

a good CRT costs how much?

>hipster
>hipster
>hipster

When did we become /v/ again?

>>747424

Then don't buy those ones?

>>747457
We had a 27" RCA set from 1993 when I was a kid. Best damn retro game TV ever made, so don't be talking shit about it.

>>747457
I bought my PVM for $25 on craigslist.

captcha: reertoo group

>the upscaler marketer is back

Don't feed the troll.

>>747451
Because I'm sure most thrift stores carry professional studio models of Trinitron. It's considerably more likely that I'll encounter some 13" Korean-made TV from 1992.

>>747479

>>747457

>>747468

I had an RCA too, I wasn't knocking it but according to purists on this board, it's a shit tv not worthy of playing games on

>>747479
not that that's a bad thing. That shit Korean TV can play Duck Hunt while your Sharp Aquos cannot.

>>747479
then don't limit your selection to whatever the thrift store happens to have, that's what I meant by being lazy

>>747420
For the tenth time, fighting game tournaments are not played on hdtvs they play on 23" oled computer monitors.

This is ideal for systems that put out digital image signals, but analog signals ALWAYS will need to be converted to digital inside the display, producing lag.

>>747370

no motion blur, no display lag, no upscaling

things that make it perfect for retro games, since most retro games are literally made for use on CRTs

>>747485
Nice big TV with great color and blacks (in fact my dad said it had better black level than the Trinitrons he saw running when he got it) plus S-video. Who wouldn't want?

>>747445
There are lots of "approved" thrift store monitors. We just want the people who ask for our advice to get the best possible monitor at their price point and our price points generally range from 0-50 dollars

>>747492
Once OLED becomes mainstream, there won't be any need for 300 pound dinosaur displays beyond hipsterism. The only problem might be the scalers, but an external box can fix that problem.

Not sure though if it will let you play light gun games...

>>747485

It's not worth looking for if you don't already have one, there's better to be had, for cheap.

>>747513

>but an external box can fix that problem

Hmm, you mean like an... upscaler?

Fuck off, marketer.

>>747513

Nope, OLED still has sample and hold motion blur. They also will burn out quickly if they were set to flicker like a CRT.
CRTs and 120hz Lightboost LCDs are still going to be the best for retro gaming.

>>747513
Deinterlacing will always create lag by its very nature

>>747485
FYI, I and many others consider RCA to be in good+ territory. They have great blacks and great tube life. I've used the same RCA ever since I bought it new in 1990. It sat on my back porch for a year and got rained and snowed on and it still works okay for what I use it for.

>>747513

>300 pound dinousaur
>hipsterism
>external box

Yep, it's marketing all right

>>747431

What's wrong with CRT monitors?
Mine looks like the second one at 640x480

>>747527
Now, we're talking specifically Thomson sets here (they owned the RCA, GE, and Proscan brands from 1987 to 2004). They manufactured tubes in the old RCA plant in Indiana that had been operating since the 50s. While the CRTs themselves are excellent quality, the supporting electronics were shit.

At its 90s height, the Thomson empire claimed almost 40% of the US TV market

http://www.solarisjapan.com/xrgb-mini-framemeister-compact-up-scaler-unit/

use this with an OLED set and the only thing you still need a CRT for is playing Duck Hunt

>>747537
Agreed, but that's pretty much all of their crts other than projection and console sets

>>747548

FUCK OFF MARKETER

>>747548

nice advertisement

OLEDs aren't affordable right now anyway

>>747548
>and every other gun game.. or for natural scanlines... or if they want to save $1000+

>>747548


>almost 400 dollars for a upscaler.

no thanks m96743

no thanks

>>747561
Scanlines are really a hipster thing. they have no actual effect on the game's performance, but it's part of the retro "aesthetic"

>>747559
>OLEDs aren't affordable right now anyway

when they are of course

>>747537
>While the CRTs themselves are excellent quality

I agree, although some hipster purists may object to them being shadow mask, but I never had any problem with that.

>>747595

Scanlines are an image quality thing, they make the graphic look natural, instead of blocky.

>>747595

They make the game look better. Do you want your games to look better or worse?

A one-word answer will suffice.

>>747617
>>747626
this, it's a basic optical illusion that creates a sense of non-existent linear continuity between rows of pixels. See "Illusory contours"

>>747376
There's no flicker with progressive scan consoles like the Genesis, Master System, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64...should I go on or do you have more to educate us on?

>>747485
RCA sets are good. Not quite up to par with the Trinitrons, but the "TruFlat" TVs (even though they weren't truly flat) are solid as hell. They're quite sharp for being shadow mask models.

>control-F "hipster"
>14 results
Fuck off moron, there are legitimate technical advantages to CRT displays that have already been explained in this thread.

>>747534
Not all CRT monitors are that good. Quality varies quite a bit.

>>747598
There's a shadow mask guy that likes to post a close up pic of his Alucard in defense of the shadow mask but it about makes me want to barf. I dunno what brand it is or how he has it hooked up but it makes me want to put SoTN on my Magnetbox through YUV and see if it's really that bad or if he's really a troll.

>>747391

You mean something like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-BNC-Male-to-RCA-Female-Plug-Adapter-Connector-p21s-/130493202722?pt=US_Surveillance_Cables_Adapters_Connectors&hash=item1e62004122

>>744083
It could just be convergence or focus. Both tend to be a bit worse towards the outer edges.

>>747715
Yeah, I bought a 5 pack for $3.99 shipped since I didn't need more than 5, they work great. I kinda wish BNC would have been the standard instead of RCA, they're nice connectors

>>747663
>Fuck off moron, there are legitimate technical advantages to CRT displays

Duck Hunt...

>>747696
See again, there's nothing inherently bad or inferior about shadow mask vs aperture grille. It's a hipster thing really.

So I'm not sure if this is the right place or not, but I guess it is considering it's emulation, but I wanna finally get around to playing Earthbound, should I play Earthbound 1, because one of my friends said it had nothing to do with 2 and 3 and I have no idea.

>>747765
>hipster

>>747765
>it's a preference thing really
fixed that for you

Main reason aperture grille gets so much praise is because many high-end monitors are aperture grill. Correlation != causation, etc. There are nice monitors using both technologies

>>747765
After all, back in the day, most TVs that people used retro consoles with were probably an average consumer set of the 80s-90s. Thus while 2000s Trinitrons are nice, they're more hipster than authentic.

>>747787
see
>>747778