/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7341894
>Sneak an extra cup onto the cars
No, they advertised the hell out of it. Get locked, you're a disgrace to Genesis fans.

Nintendo's philosophy of creating basic hardware and complimenting it with powerful carts is genius and probably why they didn't go bankrupt. I never bought a single game with SFX game, why should I pay for hardware I don't use?

>>7341894
There weren't even many Super FX games. The SA-1 came out later and had more widespread usage.

Ok how about we make two separate add on expansion consoles that costs hundreds of dollars and destroy our company by the end of the decade?

The SNES, despite being wholly 2 years newer than the Mega Drive, ran at a mere 1/3rd the speed, not just compared to the Mega Drive, but compared to ALL it's competitors, even much older ones such as the PC Engine or Amiga.
Some other funny tidbits that nintendrones don't want you to know:
The SNES is the only console that generation that cannot exceed 256x240 before being restricted to a mere 16 simultaneous colours. The Mega Drive, PC Engine, and Amiga all could do higher resolutions without colour depth restrictions.
The SNES outputs audio at almost half the sample rate of the Mega Drive, and a mere 1/4 the same rate of the PC Engine. It does beat the Amiga here, albeit just barely. The SNES outputs audio at a bit depth of a mere half of the Mega Drive, 4-bit compressed compared to the Mega Drive's 9-bits uncompressed for FM, or 8-bits uncompressed for samples. It is also half the bit depth of the Amiga, which is similarly 8-bits uncompressed, and even less than the PC Engine, which is 5-bits uncompressed.
Objectively speaking, when compared to even much older 16-bit hardware, the shit SNES is, simply put, far behind. It is a terribly designed console, and the numerous hardware flaws manifested into subpar gameplay experiences, which were extremely common on this platform, it's lackluster games library ultimately failing to hold up when compared to the glut of far superior 16-bit options, such as the Mega Drive, PC Engine, Amiga, X68000, Neo Geo, and various arcade platforms.

Behold, the mighty Amiga running SF2 at all of 5 FPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb6VvtAcmb8

>>7341894
Fuck off australia-kun. Augmenting the system as chips became cheaper was genius. We kept getting good games on old hardware. Seethe more

>>7341982
Tilted nintendrone cherry picking shitty ports as usual, ignoring the fact that the Amiga, despite being 4 years older than the shit SNES, can perform 3D on stock hardware, which the SNES required a cheating and expensive expansion chip to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmcS-Br95r4
Even the Atari ST could do 3D without an expansion chip, and the Atari ST was a huge piece of shit. What's your excuse?

>>7341894
Imagine letting competitors live rent free in your head since 2001. No wonder you write like a tormented schizo.

the creators of the FX chip were autistic furries that wanted to make a yoshi kart racer. think about that

>>7341995
>cherry picking
>posts an image to hide the woeful FPS the Amiga suffered

No excuse needed. If the Amiga was so good, why are all the games so shit and why did the entire company collapse?

>>7342009
>and why did the entire company collapse?
Bill Gates got everyone to buy an inferior operating system he stole from linux and apple

>>7342014
And yet that didn't prevent Nintendo from becoming the must successful gaming company in the world. Weird huh?

>>7342009
>deflect deflect deflect!! no, the AMIGA is shit!!!
Even if that were true (it's not), the SNES is still thoroughly beaten by the Mega Drive, PC Engine, X68000, Neo Geo, and arcade platforms. You nintendrones are still in last place.

>>7342028
How many times have you made this post in the past week Aussie koon? You're a sad pathetic excuse for man, fitting for one so obsessed with a sad pathetic excuse for a computer.

>>7342028
Are any of those companies still making hardware?

>>7341927
Why pay for the same hardware several times?

>>7342080
I have no idea why you had to buy hardware several times. I only ever bought one SNES, so I didn't have that problem.

>>7342090
You buy the SFX hardware over and over for every game you buy it.
At least for the N64 or Saturn RAM expansions you only have to buy it once.

>>7342092
Well they weren't 16 bit systems, so maybe that should give you a small clue.

>>7342096
SuperFX is 32 bit. Also, sega 32x exists.

>>7342036
This is quite funny. Large parts of /vr/ feel the need to flock to the side of the perceived winners. Like its an argument, or a triumph or something? Or something that keeps you from actively making decisions of your own?

>>7342124
The 32X is a laughing stock. I think it was a decent idea but most people just clown on it because they see it as a rival system to the Saturn instead of just an add on.

>>7342127
Winning is how people decide who won. It's a weird phenomenom, but someone says "the SNES is still thoroughly beaten by X defunct company" despite being proven wrong with comparisons of ports, how else are we supposed to define "thoroughly beaten"? Beaten how?

The SNES library is much more highly regarded than any of its competitors. WIN.
Nintendo shipped 50 million consoles. WIN.
Nintendo didn't go bankrupt. WIN.

How precisely was SNES "thoroughly beaten by Mega Drive, PC Engine, X68000, Neo Geo, and arcade platforms"?

>>7342149
And what if i don't care who financially wins or loses, and i just wanna play the games and consoles that i like? Oh wait... /vr/ has a word for that.... "contrarian". lmao

>>7342131
It makes much more sense than the SuperFX. You don't have to buy the same external chip multiple times to play different games.

>>7341894
>not having all your CPUs in the cart
Sounds like you might be retarded nintendo

>>7342272
No one forced you to stop playing the games and consoles you like to post in a console war thread. Have you tried ignoring console war threads?

>>7342292
And yet, the 32x is regarded as having killed Sega. Maybe they should have put the required chips in the games instead of soaking their customers for $160 on top of the games.

>>7341930
>There weren't even many Super FX games. The SA-1 came out later and had more widespread usage.

> SuperFX
Star Fox
Stunt Race FX
Vortex
Dirt Racer[ (UK only)
Dirt Trax FX

>SuperFX 2
Doom
Yoshi's Island
Winter Gold
Star Fox 2 (was never released as a cart, but is on the SNES Classic)

>>7341971
ugh. i'll bite.
> ran at a mere 1/3rd the speed
True. The 68000 is faster on paper. The SNES has additional functionality in it's PPU for native transparency effects, scaling (mode 7), 4 simultaneous graphics layers, not to mention an audio processor with 8 simultaneous sampled channels. It could do alot more with the cycles it has.
> The SNES is the only console that generation that cannot exceed 256x240 before being restricted to a mere 16 simultaneous colours
No. Jackass. 8 palettes of 16 simultaneous colors. 256 possible colors of a palette of 65,636. The Genesis could ONLY do a maximum of 256.
> The SNES outputs audio at almost half the sample rate of the Mega Drive
Just straight up untrue. The 64KB of audio ram was certainly a bottleneck, but it could output a wide host of sample rates and bit depths. It also has a linear interpreter to smooth over less depth / frequency samples.
> the shit SNES is, simply put, far behind.
Much like the NES, it is built with cartridge expandability in mind. You can see how later games like Mario RPG / Kirby Superstar took advantage of the SA-1 coprocessor at 10Mhz.
> Genesis
No transparency effects. No native scaling or transformation, all software. Sample rate was locked at 22khz and sound generally terrible, like the horrible SOR voices. I love me some YM chiptunes done right, but, you're stuck with that sound.

>>7342336
>Maybe they should have put the required chips in the games instead of soaking their customers for $160 on top of the games.
Dont you know that superfx games could be even more expensive than $100? And superfx/superfx2 is less powerful than 32x.

>>7342442
>Dont you know that superfx games could be even more expensive than $100?
none of the notable ones

>>7342373
>SNES has additional functionality in it's PPU for native transparency effects
Mega Drive could use VDP debug registers for transparent blending. Higher resolution could be used to blend adjacent pixels for transparency, a technique used for waterfalls in Sonic.
>scaling (mode 7)
Easily done in software. The 3x faster CPU allowed for software scaling without inhibiting game logic.
>4 simultaneous graphics layers
With each layer only capable of tiles that only have 4 colours each, in other words, NES colour limitations. That mode was very rarely used because it's shit.
>8 palettes of 16 simultaneous colors.
Incorrect. 16 simultaneous colours for the screen in high res. This is why practically zero games used the high res mode on SNES, aside from RPM Racing, because, yet again, it was shit.
>it could output a wide host of sample rates and bit depths
Sample rates, yes, though the output sample rate is fixed to a mere 32 khz. Bit depths, incorrect. The SNES uses a 4-bit compressed format.
>Much like the NES, it is built with cartridge expandability in mind.
Common excuse for the shit base hardware capabilities.
>Sample rate was locked at 22khz
Incorrect. Mega Drive outputs at 52 khz, wholly twice the SNES sample rate of 32 khz. PC Engine outputs at 111 khz.

>>7342469
>Easily done in software
No. INB4 unfinished techdemos running at half resolution and 30FPS.

WAAAAH my hunk of plastic and copper mommy is better than YOURS. God this fucking board.

>>7342014
>stole from linux
Take your meds.
Oh, and Linux is just a rip-off of Unix anyway.

>>7342442
No one forced you to buy them. How much were 32x games?

>>7342472
Zero Tolerance, Contra Hard Corps, a PC accurate port of Wolfenstein 3D, Road Rash, and some full 3D japanese exclusive PC98 port game as its launch title.

Just compare how shitty and flat Mode 7 Wolfenstein and Outlander (SNES) run and look compared to the Genesis ports.

>>7342485
>Road Rash
Hey man if you want choppy software rendered pseudo 3D on the SNES it's right here. https://youtu.be/EOs1lLwzPlE?t=49
What you won't see on Genesis is a 60FPS scaling background layer racer like Super Mario Kart or F-Zero.

>>7342469
> With each layer only capable of tiles that only have 4 colours each
No. You could have 16 colors in a single tile in most modes. Here is an example.

>>7342483
>No one forced you to buy them.
You were forced to buy superfx multiple times though.
>How much were 32x games?
Around 40 bucks, sometimes 50, like the normal genesis games.

>>7342497

>>7342493
>Hey man if you want choppy software rendered pseudo 3D on the SNES it's right here.
Much choppier and worse graphics than road rash, a game for the older and cheaper genesis. Embarassing.
>What you won't see on Genesis is a 60FPS scaling background layer racer like Super Mario Kart or F-Zero.
>implying
https://youtu.be/h-6sjEqMXYY

>>7342501
I wasn't forced to buy anything. Maybe I'm just lucky.

>Around 40 bucks

lol no they weren't.

>>7342512
>Much choppier and worse graphics than road rash
The framerate looks about the same and honestly Road Rash looks like trash visually. Super Off Road looks better but only because the comparison is so ugly.

Street Racer on the Genesis is not a scaling background layer racer. Just compare it to the SNES original. https://youtu.be/zturPhgEaVo?t=61

>>7342512
That looks fucking awful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZuUF5xu6_E

>>7341894
????

>>7342014
>Bill Gates got everyone to buy an inferior operating system he stole from linux and apple
Gates and Jobs both ripped of Xerox.

>>7342003
What if I told you that the CEO was so buttmad that Star Fox 2 was cancelled in favor of the Doom port that he singlehandedly caused a schism between Western and Japanese game design?

>>7341894
Batman Arkham FX
>>7341971
Cope and bitche

>>7342553
> linux and apple
hmm...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M
This is Gary Kildall, the dude who should have been Bill Gates. MS-DOS was a complete ripoff of CP/M, so much in fact, Digital Research sued them over it and IBM backed down and settled out of court. IBM supported MS-DOS though heavily and the rest is history...
Also you could have had Macintosh caliber GUI's on a PC thanks to this hero. In 1984. Look up GEM...

>>7342028
>>7341971
>>7342149
>>7342469
Samefaggotry

>>7342578
This is an implementation of GEM that came with the Atari ST. It ran fine on a 286. Apple got their panties in a bunch about it though.... and it got nerfed heavily.

>>7342579

>>7342587
Yes, you.

>>7342587
>Self projecting

>>7342485
>>7342512
Seethed at best Nintendo console, Sony ProtoStation. How sad.

>>7342493
>>>7342485
> >Road Rash
> Hey man if you want choppy software rendered pseudo 3D on the SNES it's right here. https://youtu.be/EOs1lLwzPlE?t=49 [Remove]

I think Super Off Road: The Baja looks pretty good for something being rendered in software. Road Rash series (as well as Skitchin') come closest to this in presentation. EA's Genesis/ Mega Drive psudo 3D engine is not bad. And can put a lot of fake scaling sprites on the screen. The SNES does have Mode 7 up its sleeve. Even though Mode 7 only handles flat 3D playingfields and cannot scale sprites. It was used well in games like Super Mario Kart and F-Zero.

Here's a few other Genesis/ Mega Drive to SNES comparisons:

Test Drive II: The Duel (Mega Drive):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvBZotKUqE
Test Drive II: The Duel (SNES):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gpXZ8A_Frg

Race Drivin' (SNES):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU4g7to603s
Race Drivin' (Genesis/ Mega Drive):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO6o-xmR3v8

Top Gear 2 (SNES):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRatZm8DpLM
Top Gear 2 (Mega Drive/ Genesis):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWbcPJaHbLI

Street Racer (SNES):
https://youtu.be/zturPhgEaVo?t=72
Street Racer (Mega Drive/ Genesis)
https://youtu.be/h-6sjEqMXYY?t=112

F1 World Championship Edition (Mega Drive/ Genesis):
https://youtu.be/CQf2gwCRQOc?t=349
F1 World Championship Edition (SNES)
https://youtu.be/u-poljV1piw?t=617

Stunt Race FX (SNES - uses SuperFX chip):
https://youtu.be/Me9mMw7EIMI?t=100

Virtua Racing (Sega Genesis/ Mega Drive - Uses the Sega SVP chip):
https://youtu.be/J17kjksD0yE?t=100

>>7342497
Incorrect. I don't expect you nintendrones to know anything about technical specs, because if you did, you wouldn't attempt to defend such a shite console as the SNES, but in the 4 layer mode, tiles are 4 colors each. You said yourself, "you could have 16 colors in a single tile in most modes", the 4 layer mode is not "most" modes, it was an outlier. At least please attempt to learn something about the shoddy hardware you are attempting to defend, for Christ's sake.

>>7342698
> Most games used Mode 1
> 4BPP (16 colors per tile) for 2 BG layers, 2BPP for a 3rd
> Eat a dick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBEAZIfDAg

>>7342367
So...He is right?

>>7342838
You're literally a fucking idiot who's in way over his head. Mode 1 is not the 4 layer mode. Mode 0 is the 4 layer mode. The 4 layers in mode 0 support only 4 colours per tile, or 2 bpp. Most games used mode 1, not mode 0, because mode 0 was shit. Do you fucking understand English?

>>7342842
Let me explain something zoomer. The technology difference between 1990 and 1995 was HUGE, unlike today where every 5 years each new console generation brings a couple new shaders and a few more triangles. The SNES was brilliant in future proofing the system and allowing for chip hardware on the cartridge to interface seemlessly with the CPU.

>>7341894

The SNES can handle realtime raytracing. Enough said.

https://youtu.be/VeFF344NbZ4

>>7342852
I use my SNES for VR. Those segafags are stuck in the 90's

>>7342852
SNES can handle everything without enhancing chip.
See: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5RslraoEehw

>>7342846
Sixteen colors per tile for sprites. Sixteen colors per tile for 2 background layers. Count 'em. Gennnnesissss sucksss!!!! i feel like im on the schoolyard again =)

>>7342587
>>7341894
>>7342469
>projection at thread
See how it stupid.

The Genesis was better at 3D games, a genre that takes up 2% of its library.

>>7342871
Fake "3D"

>>7342880
i'll take "Things that aren't actually 3D" for 400
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srCLMqmAEMU

>>7342469
>transparency, a technique used for waterfalls in Sonic.
Now That's What I Call Transparency

>>7342890
That nice n all. Technically pseudo 3D like coding,

>>7342895
It not real transparency effect.

>>7342906
this is what real transparency looks like.

>>7342501
>forced to buy
You: "I won't buy this"
Nintendo: "Okay, enjoy your 3sX lol."

>>7341971
>The SNES, despite being wholly 2 years newer than the Mega Drive, ran at a mere 1/3rd the speed, not just compared to the Mega Drive, but compared to ALL it's competitors, even much older ones such as the PC Engine or Amiga.
Next time you decide to talk shit on /vr/, do us a favor and at least get your numbers correct. Comparing different architectures by clock rate is a sign you're clueless about the subject. The correct metric is MIPS / MFLOPS.
Amiga 500 = 0.35 MIPS
SNES = 1.8 MIPS
Sega Genesis = 2 MIPS
PC Engine = 3.1 MIPS

>>7342469
>Incorrect. Mega Drive outputs at 52 khz, wholly twice the SNES sample rate of 32 khz. PC Engine outputs at 111 khz.
Wrong. The YM2612 has a sample rate of 52KHz, but neither Genesis nor PC Engine can take full advantage of it, since both platforms streams samples from the ROM through the DAC, which is the bottleneck. Try anything higher than half of the sample rate (26KHz) and the DAC will start missing writes. Besides, high-quality samples require more ROM space in the cartridge, which is also supposed to store game data.

>>7341894
>so weak you have to sneak an extra cpu onto the carts as an afterthought.
was never an afterthought.
>>7341971
what a moron.

>>7342930
Lighting effect? Genesis had that too, along with real 3D graphics.
35:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZKsQ09qOk4

>>7341927
Honestly, a shame this isn't done anymore in today's standarized gaming market.

>>7342559
Tell me more.

>>7342559
go on

>>7343391
Christ, these nintendrones are such fucking idiots. It's to be expected, I suppose. Sad that you are incapable of really understanding any of the technical details of these platforms.
>Amiga 500 = 0.35 MIPS
>Sega Genesis = 2 MIPS
So, since you're such a large and very folded brain genius, tell me this. The Amiga 500's stock CPU is a Motorola 68000 clocked at 7.06 mhz, or 7.16 mhz for PAL models. The Mega Drive's CPU is a Motorola 68000 clocked at 7.6 mhz. How, then, does the Amiga 500, despite having the same architecture, at a similar clock speed, have only 1/5th of the MIPS? You cannot explain it, because you have no idea what you're talking about, are wholly incorrect, and should stop trying to talk about these things with people who are smarter than you.
>The YM2612 has a sample rate of 52KHz, but neither Genesis nor PC Engine can take full advantage of it, since both platforms streams samples from the ROM through the DAC
Incorrect, yet again, I am not surprised. The Mega Drive and PC Engine do not primarily use samples, they use FM synthesis and wavetable synthesis, respectively. What you say about the sample rate is true when playing back samples on those platforms, but the sample rate of the FM synthesis portion of the sound chip is 52 khz on the Mega Drive, and the sample rate of the wavetable synthesis portion of the sound chip is 111 khz on the PC Engine. You are mistaking the "sample" in the term "sample rate" for the ability to play back samples, because you have no understanding of how sound chips function.

>>7344347
>Sad that you are incapable of really understanding any of the technical details of these platforms.
Said the guy who peddles the Megahertz Myth every day of his sad life on an obscure imageboard.

>>7342559
>>>7342003
>What if I told you that the CEO was so buttmad that Star Fox 2 was cancelled in favor of the Doom port that he singlehandedly caused a schism between Western and Japanese game design?

In all fairness. Nintendo had Star Fox 64 in development. The 32x was also on the market, as well as the 3DO, Jaguar, Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation. The N64 was seeing multiple delays and the only mainline console that Nintendo had on the market was the Super Nintendo. They also had the Virtua Boy, which wasn't doing so well. And the GameBoy line (not the GBC). At that point in time Nintendo's advertisements were trying to convince people that the SNES could still compete with all the new 32bit consoles. Doom on the SNES looked much more compatible to Doom on the 32x (at least from a distance), while Star Fox 2 didn't look great from a technical standpoint. Not with Star Wars arcade on the 32x, Shadow Squadron, Solar Eclipse, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter and others of the time. I think Star Fox 2 is a fun game, the final game is much better than the earlier betas.Yoshi's Island made better use of the SFX2, by using it to scale/ rotate sprites, blend in polygons and use it for other effects.

>>7344347
Not that guy and definitely not a nintard, but megadrive has higher mips because its got additional graphics hardware the amiga didn't have. With that said though, it's not the definitive metric because in case of game consoles, the processing power is spread all over the system, so a console with dedicated 2D graphics rendering will be awful at 3D no matter how high the MIPS score is, and the quality of the graphics depends on how efficiently the devs are able to harness this processing power. It doesn't necessarily reflect real world performance really.

With that said, SNES PPU really is awful though. Mode 1-7 were absolute gimmicks that were useless for most games that didn't need transparency or pseudo 3D sprite scaling. The PPU was far too specialized to do specific tasks, the SNES could use simpler hardware graphic modes and use the remaining budget to give itself a more powerful CPU.

>>7344425
>Megahertz Myth
Not really a myth. The mega drive achieved more with a simpler and cheaper architecture. It was the more flexible console of the two. There's a reason the snes became the jarpig, style and presentation over substance console.

>>7344557
>jarpig
Oh no. You're that one faggot who keeps shitposting here.
/vr/'s bootleg Barneyfag.

>>7344425
The "megahertz myth" only applies when you're comparing different architectures, at which point a better comparison can be made by multiplying the clock speed with the average number of clocks per instruction, on an older architecture such as this. MIPS do not factor in at all when the GPUs of such devices are fixed-function. The Amiga and Mega Drive have CPUs that are comparable in speed, it's an objective fact.

>>7342003
The person who came up with the anthropomorphic animals in Star Fox was Miyamoto, not Argonaut.

>>7344863
And it's clear that all 68000 systems perform leaps and bounds better than the SNES when they have to rely on their computing power rather than task specific 2D processes.

atatri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86nhn7KooQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCBhgl8NEKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZKsQ09qOk4

68000 is a lot slower per clock, although it has far more registers which can help when you're doing mathy stuff.

65816's main bottleneck in the SNES was the 8-bit bus.

>>7344923
The SNES was slower than the Atari Lynx at math processing.

>>7344926
I don't know anything about the atari lynx, but looking at it now it has a 4MHz 65C02 (which would be pretty slow), so I guess you're talking about the math coprocessor. The snes also has multiply/divide hardware, but I'm not sure how it compares.

Anyway, my point is that the 68k is not some amazing wonder processor that was miles faster than it's contemporaries. It's still quite slow (even the fastest, simplest instructions take a minimum of 4 cycles to execute), but it had some advantages in a larger register file, and a 16-bit bus in the genesis.

>>7344897
>amiga fanboys are still creating hideous doom clones in 2021

>>7344953
at least he's doing something productive (and it's extremely impressive) when you're just shitposting on an image board for the 10th year in a row

>>7344960
>creating a hideous Doom clone for a shitty PC
>productive

>>7344940
Yes cycle speed isn't everything, but the amount of cycles a processor takes to process an instruction isn't everything either. People love to gush over how much faster the 6502 than the Z80 is because it uses fewer cycle to process an instruction (0.5 vs 4) even though in reality the 6502 needs more redundant processes to retain program memory that will slow it down in practice. It's true the register and bus size made the 68000 the superior CPU.

>>7344953
>>7344964
Nintendrones are literal manchildren aren't they.

>>7344972
>Nintendrones are literal manchildren aren't they.
Not sure what that has to do with diamond dozen shitty doom clones for Amiga but ok.

>>7344964
Productive as in producing something. It's a neat project and definitely pushes the amiga 500 a lot further than most people would have thought possible in an actual game.


>>7344972
>Yes cycle speed isn't everything, but the amount of cycles a processor takes to process an instruction isn't everything either.
Sure. My point is that the speed advantage the 68k has over the 65816 in the SNES is a lot less than it seems looking at the clock speed, due to 68k instructions often taking many more cycles than 65816 instructions. However, the 68k has instructions the 65816 doesn't have, and will perform 32-bit arithmetic (which take more cycles, but generally less than two times). All in all the number of factors make it difficult to compare directly, and again the biggest advantage is in the memory bus.

And 68000 is much more fun to program in than anything 6502 related.

>>7344985
>Productive as in producing something.
It's not something of any value though.

>>7344987
It inspired me to keep working on my genesis 3d engine so it's valuable to me.

>>7344985
>due to 68k instructions often taking many more cycles than 65816 instructions
Less difference here than you might imagine. Average 65816 instruction time is about 6 to 8 clock cycles per instruction, for the useful arithmetic and data movement ones. The ones that only take 2 or 3 cycles are outliers that are not as frequently used, such as setting/clearing flags or processor modes.

>>7344985
>All in all the number of factors make it difficult to compare directly
Well, simply said the 68000 was more costly and power intensive than the 65C02 variant the SNES uses. It's the higher performing processor of the two for the simple reason that it required more complex manufacturing and electricity. It's not a CMOS like the later.

>>7344997
That's true, but avg 68k instructions are probably 10-12+ cycles. Only 4 cycle instructions on 68k are moving between registers or simple arithmetic between data registers. Everything is a multiple of 2 cycles and everything touching memory automatically costs another 4 cycles. So basic pointer access is instruction cost + 4 extra cycles, indexed access is instruction + 8 cycles because the index in in the instruction itself is another memory access. At least we have a faster bus so large instructions hurt slightly less, but man some days I really wish the 68k had cache.

>>7342691

Kawasaki Superbike Challenge - SNES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qxi-MUnlsQ
Kawasaki Superbike Challenge - Genesis/ Mega Drive:
https://youtu.be/xwbzga9P3XU?t=259

Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing (SNES):
https://youtu.be/_dxM58PUS2Q?t=509
Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing (Mega Drive/ Genesis):
https://youtu.be/C0uV-_I0-7I?t=231

ESPN SpeedWorld (Genesis/ Mega Drive)
https://youtu.be/zmFXrwQSKYI?t=65
ESPN SpeedWorld
https://youtu.be/u3u-RDxK_4w?t=18

Super Chase H.Q. (SNES):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJlYbG5Gulk
Chase H.Q. II (Genesis/ Mega Drive):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw3kfQMW3ug

Random "scaling sprite" racers:
Lotus II (Genesis/ Mega Drive):
https://youtu.be/lBgzirdnQto?t=177
Michael Andretti's Indy Car Challenge (SNES)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybejvir5Rho
OutRun 2019 (Mega Drive/ Genesis):
https://youtu.be/11uHMDNhHxg?t=114
Lamborghini American Challenge (SNES):
https://youtu.be/yviNuQPJKqw?t=652
Road Rash 3 (Genesis/ Mega Drive):
https://youtu.be/DAprFOGApsQ?t=376
Full Throttle: All-American Racing (SNES):
https://youtu.be/uvTkpyBFSGw?t=76
Super Hang-On (Genesis/ Mega Drive):
https://youtu.be/cXJRpZyYgjQ?t=157
Dirt Trax FX (SNES - SuperFX)
https://youtu.be/STRLEIqbKqc?t=80

>>7342080
I hear you, but there are were only 3 games with that chip; doom, that racing game on some other one i forget

>>7344578
>there's only one faggot who shitposts here
I assure you it's more than just you kiddo

>>7341894
You should be more than thankful specially since the hardware intended for it. Sega tried to do this later with MD expansions and that totally went well

>>7341894
This is like complaining about not having to use a password system anymore

>>7345059
>Michael Andretti's Indy Car Challenge (SNES)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybejvir5Rho [Embed]


This game here uses a variation on the DSP-1 chip. Which helps enhance the capabilities of Mode 7. Super Mario kart also uses a version of DSP-1 and so does Pilot Wings. But not F-Zero.Ballz 3D uses the same DPS-1 chip as Super Mario Kart: https://youtu.be/H9XZYwqOpLs?t=126
Top Gear 3000 uses the DSP-4 for the road scaling effect (?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTVDq5UAZXc
Power Rangers Zeo: Battle Racers for the SNES uses the SAI. I guess this one is using Mode7 with a 10MHz enhancement chip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YteLSGoS0-IPGA 1996 on the SNES also uses the SA1 to draw the polygon landscapes and scale the trees and shrubbery to different sizes. Though not in real time:
https://youtu.be/_u-YOKw-sdw?t=29
Kirby's Dreamland 3 also uses the SAI:
https://youtu.be/UlPlxkYSykY?t=381

Interesting that more games didn't use the SAI enhancement chip.

>>7345059
>Michael Andretti's Indy Car Challenge (SNES)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybejvir5Rho [Embed] [Embed]


This game here uses a variation on the DSP-1 chip. Which helps enhance the capabilities of Mode 7. Super Mario kart also uses a version of DSP-1 and so does Pilot Wings. But not F-Zero. Ballz 3D uses the same DPS-1 chip as Super Mario Kart:
https://youtu.be/H9XZYwqOpLs?t=126 [Embed]
Top Gear 3000 uses the DSP-4 for the road scaling effect (?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTVDq5UAZXc [Embed]
Power Rangers Zeo: Battle Racers for the SNES uses the SAI. I guess this one is using Mode7 with a 10MHz enhancement chip:
https://youtu.be/YteLSGoS0-I?t=638 . PGA 1996 on the SNES also uses the SA1 to draw the polygon landscapes and scale the trees and shrubbery to different sizes. Though not in real time:
https://youtu.be/_u-YOKw-sdw?t=29 [Embed]
Kirby's Dreamland 3 also uses the SAI:
https://youtu.be/UlPlxkYSykY?t=381 [Embed]

Interesting that more games didn't use the SAI enhancement chip.

>>7345287
Shit, the SNES was the console equivalent of a HRT. Extremely weak and had feminine games like kirby.

>>7342272
When you trumpet that something "thoroughly beats" something else without qualifying it with "oh, I just meant I enjoy it more", yeah, you sound like a contrarian faggot.

Maybe next time just say "well I still like X more than SNES" instead of being some coy faggot posting shit like "LOL CAN'T BELIEVE YOU THINK NINTENDO WON".

>>7341894
Based Nintendo. SOVL

>>7345313
>battle royale won
>EA won
>gacha won
>pachinko won
>capeshit won
>apple won
>trump won
Notice how only the absolute shit products designed for bumbling retards won?

>>7345343
You didn't answer my question. You assume I give a shit who won anything rather than calling you out. I only post here to argue. Answer the question or admit you were being a faggot.

>>7345343
You didn't address the statement. You assume I give a shit about who won anything. I'm here to provoke debate and call out people like you who can't argue for shit. You're either a contrarian faggot just changing your angle or moving goalposts for the sake of arguing with anyone you can, or you're genuinely retarded.

Which one is it?

>>7345416
I'm not that guy though. SNES was a financial success but it didn't advance gaming at all.

>>7345236
It's just as intended for it on the genesis. The SVP chip works as well as the snes expansion chips.

>>7345014
Less efficient doesn't mean higher performing. Nintendo did cheap out, but they banked on fast hardware getting cheaper. They ended being right enough that many snes games had enhancement chips without a price premium on the cartridges.

>>7345479
>Less efficient doesn't mean higher performing.
The 68000 is objectively more powerful though.
>many snes games had enhancement chips without a price premium on the cartridges.
SNES games were more expensive than Genesis games on average. People had to pay 10-30 dollar premium for those.

>>7345507
On average? I never heard that so didn't know. Fair point

>>7342559
star fox 2 is so fucking good too. I honestly like it way more than 64.

>>7343902
>>7343898

>Miyamoto hated DKC and made Yoshi's Island out of spite
>Miyamoto hated guns (Never mind that the Z trigger is supposed to be like a gun and Doom 64 was supposed to be a launch title)
>Miyamoto was actually serious when he joked about having Goldeneye enemies apologize instead of dying
>Japs can't into first person games because of motion sickness (you'd think a site full of weebs would instantly pick this up as racist)
>Super Noah's Ark 3D was made because id was buttmad about Nintendo censoring Wolf3D so they licensed the engine to a Christian company out of spite

You think Jen didn't lie to Rare about this shit? There was also a dude on the DK64 team who faxed Miyamoto some concept art about the characters having guns, being horrified when he realized what he did, and then surprised when Miyamoto sent back some stylized wood designs.

>>7341894
Imagine making a thread so weak you have to sneak bait into it as an afterthought. OP is dogshit without it.

>>7346770
>Miyamoto hated DKC and made Yoshi's Island out of spite
Wasn't this quote already posted here with the full context?
That the full context was that he feared DKC would ONLY be liked for graphics and worked with Rare to ensure the gameplay would hold up even if the CGI aged as time went on.

>>7342587
You are samefagging. >>7342645
Is right

>>7341894
Nintendo hardware is and always had beeb garbage. There's no need for a flame war about it. Nintendo's strength is it's first party games/characters and it's creativity.

>>7346770
>Japs can't into first person games because of motion sickness
I think any game that runs less than constant 30 fps does that to me.

>>7348175
That's 3 different people, one of whom is Australia kun. Lurk 2 years before posting, child.

>>7341894
Sega did the same only worse. 3d chip cost like 300 dollars, mutant add-on 32x was a whole other console, CD add-on was shut cause the base consoles weak pixel processing power.

>>7348196
>Nintendo
>Creativity
Like how nearly every Zelda game over the last 35 years has been the same shit over and over again?