/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7326549
So what are the oracles actual backstories? The pretty much just come out of nowhere. Is Din actually a gerudo or does she just look like one?

imagine if Faeore got her own game

>>7326549
When is nintendo going to make a history of hyrule like christopher tolkien did with history of middle earth where he went through every early draft of the lord of the rings and documented every change his father made and made commentary on things his father might have been going for?
Why can't we just finally get what we want?

I was so blue balled by the Gigaleaks hyping up Christmas 2020 and then nothing happened. This more than makes up for it.

>>7326606
And wasn't this completely unrelated and by accident pretty much?

>>7326545
>>7326565
True, but this is Nintendo we're talking about. The Zelda series, despite a couple of T rated titles, still maintains a squeaky clean image. FE and Xenoblade, on the other hand, practically thrive on waifushit and fanservice.

>>7326563
I never played the Oracle games, but I was always under the impression that they were the goddesses incarnate, in a similar way that Zelda is Hylia reincarnated.

>>7326632
You're not exactly wrong, but Capcom wasn't given full access to the archives of Zelda lore which also wasn't super important at the time they were made.

>>7326549
Last time I checked I saw mention that the last 20 or so maps would be harder to retrieve than the earlier ones, because they're an early format. I stopped lurking the /v/ threads because they basically became a shitposting slapfight. Did anything get discovered after the initial 5 threads?

>>7326563
>>7326632
they're just powerful maidens that watch over aspects of the world and share their namesake with the goddesses
they're probably just under sages in terms of magical abilities

>>7326571
I still can't believe they're adding Fado to smash. I guess she did deserve it.

Bumpin'

>>7324123
>You were also allowed to name Epona
I love it! All these memories I have of features Miyamoto spoke of in interviews during Zelda 64's development, features that didn't make the final game, it's wonderful to see confirmation that these really were part of the game. :)
>>7324216
>Dodongos were supposed to be extinct but were apparently resurrected by Ganondorf, hence >>7322850
>I'm pretty sure they weren't said to be extinct in the final game?
I don't think they were, but then again, the Gorons seemed to go into the cavern regularly to eat rocks, so it would make sense if there were no monsters at all prior to Ganon showing up. So it could just be they dropped the reference to their extinction, even though it's indirectly implied.
>"Head to the door at the bottom to seek an audience." / "If you go near the lakebed door, you can talk to us."
>That weird underwater alcove/hole(?) in the final game is a remnant of an earlier design.
I WANT TO BELIEVE
>Jabu-Jabu is sleeping during the day, and swimming around the fountain at night.
>Seems like a hassle to feed him the fish at a specific time of day, glad it was removed.
Maybe not. It does seem like they originally intended for the game utilize the game's clock more than they did, so by that point doing things at certain in-game hours might not have seemed so bad. That's assuming such game mechanics weren't intended to make use of the DD's real-time clock, which I sort of doubt they were.
>>7324149
> Miyamoto mentioned a few times that we wanted to have time travel between three eras and in the released OoT rom there is text mentioning that the temple of time was supposed to send you to the past as well but that whole idea was shut down probably because it would be too difficult or take to long.
But... but the Temple of Time does send you to the past when you place the sword back.

>>7327456
>I don't think they were, but then again, the Gorons seemed to go into the cavern regularly to eat rocks, so it would make sense if there were no monsters at all prior to Ganon showing up.
It is in the final game, they do mention that the Dodongos were supposed to have gone extinct eons ago and they suddenly came back to life.

>>7327456
>>7327542
>Ancient creatures have infested the Dodongo's Cavern!
The fact Darunia calls them ancient creatures implies Dodongos shouldn't be alive to begin with.
When you clear the dungeon, he expresses surprise that they suddenly showed up too.

>>7327456
>That's assuming such game mechanics weren't intended to make use of the DD's real-time clock, which I sort of doubt they were.
We know, as far back as the A+B period of development, OoT had it's own in-game day and night cycle.
Seems like the idea for the DD's clock was to plant plants and for them to grow after a certain time IRL.
Replaced by the Magic Bean system we have in the final

>>7327571
Yeah, but alongside the DD clock system (which may have still been in play as late as this Spaceworld demo) there's also the game's own internal time system which you can see whenever you strike a Gossip Stone. Which confuses things because they probably co-existed at the same time and who knows which clock was ultimately meant for which game mechanic.

>>541653298
The Master Sword was a brand new element to the Legend of Zelda series, having only appeared in ALttP at that point. Zelda 64 from the ground up didn't had time travel as a mechanic, the mechanic was introduced after Shigeru Miyamoto pressured Yoshiaki Koizumi to add a young Link in early 1997 despite both agreeing in 1995 that an adult Link would make 3D combat easier to implement (hence us not seeing a child Link until the game already looked incredibly close to the final game)

>>7327653
By the time of the Spaceworld Demo, it was known that OoT would've be a cartridge game, no longer a Disk Game, and a "second version" (later, expansion for the cartridge game) would come out on disk (the fabled Ura Zelda).

However, at some point, during the Early Sword on A period, there were a cart and a disk version of OoT worked in tandem if we believe Miyamoto.

>>7327680
>>7327680
>The Master Sword was a brand new element to the Legend of Zelda series, having only appeared in ALttP at that point. Zelda 64 from the ground up didn't had time travel as a mechanic, the mechanic was introduced after Shigeru Miyamoto pressured Yoshiaki Koizumi to add a young Link in early 1997 despite both agreeing in 1995 that an adult Link would make 3D combat easier to implement (hence us not seeing a child Link until the game already looked incredibly close to the final game)
Adding to this, it's more likely at this point of development, the true key item for Zelda 64 would've been the Silver Arrows, since the game began development taking Zelda 1 and 2 more into account.

>>7327686
>>7327680
Fuck, meant to quote >>/v/541591909#541653298

>>7327686
>>7327680
>>7327686 (You)
>>7327680 (You)
Fuck, meant to quote >>/v/541653298

>>7327686 (You)
>>7327680 (You)
Fuck, meant to quote >>>/v/541591909#541653298

>>7327686
>>7327680
I'M A FUCKING RETARD
>>>/v/541653298
I WAS TRYING TO QUOTE

>>7326549
How does a tree have windows?

>>7322525
>邪神ディンの像 Statue of the Evil Goddess Din
What's the source of this info? I've looked everywhere on TCRF's 1997 Overdump article and it's not among the pause menu textures or in the text dump. It's really annoying how random bits of info trickles out into these threads from time to time with no one sharing where it came from. All I know is, /vr/ has been the last to learn anything about this dump since hour one. People are sitting on information that they're too lazy to update the TCRF article with, and it's frustrating as hell.

>>7327715
UI graphics.

>>7327715
IIRC It was on the pastebin with all JP text dumped which then people began google translating.

>>7327456
>But... but the Temple of Time does send you to the past when you place the sword back.
There's a string of text for 3 entrances of time in the Spirit Temple data of the final game.
Currently people believe the overdump's GTG was the Spirit Temple at some point which has 3 entrances for 3 different trials, unlike the final.

>>7327723
Like I said, TCRF doesn't list it in their menu text translations:
https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump/Unused_Textures#World_Map
Either their translation is wrong or someone fucked something up in Google Translate or lied.

>>7327729
TCRF is incomplete currently, you're better off checking the pastebins on the previous /v/ threads.
They're currently reeing at each other on discord, it'll take a while for everything to be up.

>>7327734
>TCRF is incomplete currently, you're better off checking the pastebins on the previous /v/ threads.
Therein lies the problem. The conversation surrounding this game has largely been carried by unemployed teens and young adults who weren't even born until after Ocarina of Time was released. You're telling me to wade through God knows how many threads full of zoomer autism to find what I'm looking for... I mean, the quality of your average /vr/ poster is hardly any better these days, but still, most of us can't spend every hour of the day bumping threads to the limit like they do.

>>7327728
>Currently people believe the overdump's GTG was the Spirit Temple at some point which has 3 entrances for 3 different trials, unlike the final.
But the final game's Gerudo Training Ground has three doors as well, so...?

I assume that the really old maps still conform to the Fast3D (Mario 64 microcode) limitations like syotes/syotes2.

>>7327723
>8 Heart Pieces for a full Heart Container
I want it so bad.

>>7328469
the best change out of everywhere, they would be so tedious trying to acquire 8 heart pieces all for your shit to get kicked in by an iron knuckle. No thanks

8 Heart pieces would've only worked if the medallions were still a help in the final game

>>7327456
>Temple of Time does send you to the past
No it sends you back to the present.

>>7328567
Adult Link is the future of Child Link. If Adult Link returns the Master Sword to its pedestal he travels to the past.

is there an estimate of how many beta builds are out there?

>>7328676
He travels to his present since he starts out as a child in his present.

>>7328541
I actually think it would have helped the game's difficulty curve tremendously. You have access to so many Heart Pieces at any given point that if you explore everything, you're never going to die after becoming an adult.

8 Pieces might seem tedious, but it would have made it so you don't have so much health early on.

>>7328717
Probably lots. Every time a dev needed to build the game to test something. A lot of those probably got overwritten because they obviously reuse devcarts.

>>7327680
Miyamoto wanted time travel in zelda for a long time. I'm pretty sure zelda 64 was planned to have time travel, just that link would stay an adult in all timelines he went to. More of a time machine thing than a time skip thing.

>>7328724
By that token, the adult portion of the game also takes place in the present and any distinction between past and future is meaningless. Aren't semantics fun?

But no. Link aged 7 years. When he returns to the time before he was sealed away he is returning to his past, period.

>>7328771
You are treating young link and adult link as two different people with two different perspectives. There's no semantics. Adult link is in his future. Child link is in his present.

>>7328780
And his past us where Zelda sends him after he beats Ganon, that is, before they even met for the first time.

>>7327852
Not him, but the paste bins are like in all /v/ overdump OPs, you lazy asshole.

>>7328920
So? That has nothing to do with the text in the game's code for the spirit temple and temple of time.

Imagine arguing the implications of what it means when Link travels through time AN OVERWHELMING 23 YEARS AFTER THE GAME CAME OUT

Fucking hell guys, get it together and actually use your brains. They're not just supposed to be for show.

>>7328959
Are you here to settle this once and for all?

>>7329017
not him but that's impossible, even if John Nintendo said "it's like this and it's final" people would still debate it as if they hadn't say anything. I mean it's what happened with the official timeline, even though it's official (so it should end all discussions) people still debate it with some doing it just because they don't like it. You can't stop autism, it's too powerful

>>7327715
Dungeon name graphics, third to last one.

>>7329096
The people who debate official stuff are definitely autistic but here and the last thread we're more debating about whos speculation could be more on point. Its a different kind of autistic.

https://vocaroo.com/1kXRb92pEDiQ

>>7326606
gigaleaks will continue to set the precedent for censoring the internet

it is a psyop

>>7329379
Context?

>>7329404
It's just the Palace theme from Zelda 2 but with all but 1 channel muted.
Sounds different, doesn't it?

>>7326563
Din is a Gerudo
Nayry is Hylian
Farore is Kokiri

>>7329439
You're just assuming.

>>7326549
>zelda 64

You mean Ocarina of Time?

>>7329470
It's done.

>>7329470
He must be assuming but it does match the Oracles though. Oracle Din is delicious brown with red hair so she must be a Gerudo, while Nayru is fair skinned with blue hair and there's some blue-haired Hylians like the Bombchu lady or Kafei, while Farore the Oracle is very much child-like and green haired like Saria.

Bros, why are the Oracles so good?

>>7329475
Rule of thumb: It's better to think of Zelda 64 DD as a separate thing whose skeleton was repurposed for Ocarina of Time. During the transition to cartridge the project changed big time in both scope and added things that weren't originally planned, namely child Link and the time travel mechanic.

>>7329526
well that makes sense

>>7329130
What I find interesting is, despite still having Wind and Ice medallions and their respective magic in these overdumps, you can see here the temples were already Forest and Water. I guess Wind Temple must've been scrapped really early on, considering the N64 was too limiting to whatever wind puzzles they had in mind?

>>7329563
>their respective magic
I meant respective magic effect descriptions

>>7329563
I just assumed you'd get the wind medallion and magic in Forest Temple, there's no rule the areas you get the medallions in had to correspond to their element.

And some parts of the text dump seem to use Ice and Water interchangeably, like how Serenade of Water is still the name of the song, despite Minuet of the Forest being Minuet of the Wind in this version.

>>7329645
>start making the dungeons
>just throw shit together because that's what you do early on
>wind/water theme doesn't really fit with what you've got
>fuck it lets just rename them

>>7329526
Course

>>7329659
The 1995 tech demo, while part of the development cycle, was never really a game in itself though. Just a concept of what their aim with Zelda 64 was (3D sword-focused combat) running real time on the Ultra hardware.

>>7329659
Hope they changed course, that version looks like a stinker

theoretically speaking, wouldn't the Wind Waker itself be both sea and wind temple with an overworld dungeon? you control the winds on your sea travels.

>>7329674
Zelda 64 and even the last year of Ocarina of Time's development seems to be heavily inspired by Zelda 2, hence the 1995 tech demo using Zelda 2's Link in specific.

Consider the following:
>Sword-focused combats, the first 2 enemies shown are Iron Knuckle and Stalfos, with the Stalfos actor even called En_Test
>The medallions being spells including the Fairy Spell equivalent through the Spirit Medallion
>The sages are all towns from Zelda 2, we now know Mido at one point was meant to be the Shadow sage before being repurposed to be the boss of the Kokiri
>Although this might be just situational, we now know the original exterior to Forest Temple looked like the dungeons from Zelda 2 as seen from the Overworld.

>>7329695
was there no town of impa in AoL? There's Kasuto, but he or she never makes an appearance.

>>7329659
Its possible that the enemy ai for the metal link shown there was developed into dark link, who has a lot of coding for a mini-boss

>>7329721
Impa is a character in both Zelda 1 and 2 as Zelda's nursemaid.
In Zelda 2, it is Impa who tells Link of an ancestor to the Zelda you save in Zelda 1 to have been asleep at the North Temple for like a century now, and now that Link, in his 16th birthday, suddenly had the crest of the Triforce appear in his hand, means he's the one chosen to take upon the trials in the Temples/Palaces in Hyrule set by the ancient King to protect the Triforce of Courage and, with it, save Zelda.

>>7329727
There was no enemy AI for metal Link, Nintendo has confirmed that this was just a glorified tech demo, like the Spaceworld GameCube OoT tech demo of Link and Ganondorf fighting.

I hope someone makes a creepypasta hack or some shit with all these assets. Beta content from Zelda 64 always gave me a weird feeling. It's like an alternate universe version of games I know and love, so familiar yet off. Lots of potential spook potential desu. Or just a regular hack would be fine, I guess.

>>7329727
Apparently the earliest enemy AI is called "En_Test" and it's used by the final Stalfos. Considering Iron Knuckle and Stalfos both held Sword and Shield during the 1996 periods of A+B and A+C, it's more likely the concept of that metallic knight became En_Test.
Remember, the 1995 tech demo was not a playable thing, it had no AI, it was purely a cinematic to show a conceptual idea for Zelda 64's focus on combat.
But this focus on combat must've been part of why they decided to add Dark Link. Speaking of which:

>>7329695
>Forgot about Dark Link

>>7329435
sounds like motley crue

>>7329695
Yeah. Glad they changed course and didn't went all the way to just do zelda II on 3d. I wonder if it was gonna have rpg stats too.

>>7329734
That likely helped into the link vs dark link battle at least, i'm aware that its also a throwback to dark link in zelda 2

>>7329756
RPG stats were never a thing for Zelda 64, there's evidence they had pieces of heart and stuff like that planned very early on. The Zelda 2 influence comes mainly from Shigeru Miyamoto being really disatisfied with how sword-focused combat and the spells in Zelda 2 weren't fully realized as he would've wanted to.

>>7329695
Could it have started as a remake?

>>7329781
Only at a conceptual level, Zelda 64 took inspiration from both 1 and 2, Deku Tree is a clear stand-in for Level 1 (the Eagle dungeon) and seems like they began brainstorming design ideas for Ganondorf super early on, considering by early 1997 they had his design finalized before Zoras design were finalized or Gorons were introduced.

Pic related, Ganon the Thief's initial concept sketch seems to date back to 1996 and considering the art is based on Koizumi's 3D model, Koizumi must've already been brainstorming ideas based on the backstory given in ALttP while Nakano just puts them on paper.

>>7329695
Could you post the original exterior to the forest temple?

>>7329847

>>7329847
Here. The known actors this map calls for is Big Deku Babas and the unused Moblin setting which they are roughly Link's size, and can only be hurt from the sides and back similarily to Darknuts.

in a related note, the old story also says that the Deku Tree is beyond a maze woods, but moblins have been roaming the area, hence child Link needing a sword and a shield. Possibly, then, the final Sacred Forest Meadow was the original path to the Deku Tree while this map was removed.

>>7329876
>>7329879
Isn't that just listed as forest building in the patched rom? Also it doesn't look anything like how the forest temple looks from the inside.

>>7329896
Not sure, but this map seems super early, the building doesn't even have a door or gate or anything, you can see it was scrapped quite early on or we just have an earlier version in this build if they ever did more work on it.

>>7329896
Seems like this is the map that calls for the sign that says "Forest Temple this way", which IIRC goes unused in the final game, you can only read "Forest Temple ahead" sign if you load Link in Kokiri Forest in the ending cutscene, near the pond. You know, what back in the super early 00's was called "beta quest".

Who try the rom ??
when create a game, i write a name
>Test
I have all heart and emblem.

>>7329918
This reminded me. When you go to the forest in the Beta Quest, the game just freezes on this. It looks like the Deku Tree but...

>>7330059
日本人ですか?
What are you trying to say?
The pre-patched ROM by Dr. Disco already has a save-file prepared.

>>7330065
When you go to the actual Deku Tree, the textures aren't the same. Is there somewhere else that looks like this, is this the beta Deku Tree or what?

>>7330073
Aren't those the regular Kokiri Forest textures?

What's this ?
How work ?

>>7330124
How the fuck did you even load that up.
That's IIRC a CPU functions thing.

>>7330138
go to the pause menu and hit R or L (I forget which)

>>7330083
Nope. I just double checked Kokiri Forest, Lost Woods, Forest Meadow, etc. I don't think there's any part in the game that normally looks like that. Maybe in a cutscene the texture changes briefly?

>>7330152
Cutscenes have stuff hardcoded in them so for the longest time until these leaks and dumps they were our closest view into OoT's development.

>>7330152
I checked the three goddesses cutscene, it might be from that.

>>7326563
i always thought they were just deities that protected their corresponding part of the triforce

>>7330073
Is this the gigaleak forest?

>>7330172
Right, before Farore gives life to the woods, huh?

>>7330182
Nope, the oracles are just maidens named after the goddesses that have special powers, like something between mortal and lower deity (think Farosh or Naydra)

>>7330187
RareBetaPepe.jpg

How to change map like this video ?
This guy make L+R+Z ??

>>7330187
looks a lot like it anon, good eye
has that weird elevated house en lieu of the LW entrance, and climbable ledges instead of vines which i dont think were implemented at all in these betas as they have no actors and prolly never did

>>7330194
i feel like im definitely missing a shit ton of lore here lol
i dont remember naryu/din/farore in any game at all outside of OoT
but then ive also never played a new zelda game since the oracles games on GBC

did they actually make them a part of the story in later games?

>>7330225
This is the later one that you've got, but your rom is obviously different, with the button colors and whatnot.

>>7330250
the water being a square is a rendering glitch

>>7330240
The Oracles of Ages, Seasons and Secrets just appear on the Oracle games on OoC, they're maidens with special powers over Seasons, Ages and getting cucked respectively, unfortunately they haven't been referenced outside of The Minish Cap where you can find a house for 2 of them while the third remain homeless. In reference to "haha that third Mystical Seed game got cancelled cuz we couldn't get the system work with3 games".

>>7330240
Three goddesses are mentioned as early as LttP in it's manual but never in game. They are already called "God of power/wisdom/courage" in there as well.

Wind Waker had a pearl for each goddess. As well as a statue you need to activate.

Twilight Princess has a minor cutscene saying the three goddesses sealed away the Twilight Realm.

The Oracle games and Minish cap just had characters named after the goddesses, but not really connected.

Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild have lands named after the three goddesses, but in the end a new goddess named Hylia takes a more central role.

I know some rooms and the staircases got used on the final game's Ganon's Tower but, was fstdan ever supposed to actually be a game area? (Either when they considered the whole game to be inside Ganon's Castle or after that). Or was it purely made to look pretty in the screenshots and was never nothing more than a test map?

I feel without context many of user have had this over-romantisized idea of what Zelda 64 for the 64DD was and in the end it's all just test maps. The imagination of children and teenagers from the late 90's/early 00's fueled by just glorified test areas that were never going to be in the final game.

>>7330250
man its a bummer about the N64s cart limitations
so many of these betamaps are fucking immense compared to release
obviously wouldve ran like shit tho, and theyd have likely had to cut more later dungeons to fit it all

but imagine it
>be you:
>some dumb kid playing OoT blind in 1998
>rotten red-headed step-faggot mido tells you to piss off and get a sword/shield
>k
>return w sword/shield and tell mido to succ ur dicc
>mash A while some tree talks to you for too long
>step inside
>embedrel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd5FPWqQnug
>shit urself
if people were somehow able to """softlock"""" themselves in water temple as kids, imagine the PTSD that this as the first dungeon of the game would instill

>>7330276
oh yea youre right
i forgot they were in the oracle games in name at least
really should play those again desu. solid little GBC games

>>7330308
yea see i remember the LttP intro and the goddesses that sealed ganon in the golden realm. when i played OoT for the first time i saw that scene in the intro where it said basically the same thing, but they had names, so i always assumed din/nayru/farore were the goddesses actual names that had been forgotten over time

>>7330352
>i always assumed din/nayru/farore were the goddesses actual names that had been forgotten over time
You're not entirely wrong, the whole point of the Downfall timeline is that even Faith on the gods has dwindled down, with foreign symbols starting showing up (like the christian cross) and while "Hylia" is a new character, you could argue she was already foreshadowed in Zelda 2, with the Trophy. It's supposed to depict a goddess in the FDS Japanese version and it looks identical to the Hylia statues in SS and BotW. She's a lesser God, one that looks over the world after the creator goddesses left, but yeah.

>>7330341
An Anon previously mentioned that "dungeon" in Japanese is pronounced "danjon", so that fst_dan could mean first dungeon. It's just speculation, but then again so is a lot of what we have from this prototype.

>>7330404
>An Anon previously mentioned that "dungeon" in Japanese is pronounced "danjon"
this sounds really plausible imo
thats basically exactly what id do if i just finished up a map like that and wanted to show someone: save it as some retarded shorthand

>>7328780
I am not in my future. I am in the present. Seven years pass in the sacred realm and Link awakens in the future as an adult, which becomes the present due to the passage of time.

When you unlock the ability to go back in time later, you go to the past.

If you look through the ALTTP data from the leak you'd know that 'dan' absolutely stands for danjon or dungeon, as each of the assets corresponding to dungeon graphics have that in their file name

>>7328780
>You are treating young link and adult link as two different people with two different perspectives
they kind of are tho, imo at least
its like some sort of steins gate/butterfly effect
every time link was forced to travel through time, he invariably disappeared from the one he was in, and hopped over to a parallel one
after link beats ganon in OoT, he gets sent back as a child to yet another dimension where he didnt exist at the time either the one he left originally, or yet another parallel one
this would leave the timeline where adult link defeats ganon, "link-less" after hes warped back, and this timeline where the hero of time is gone/never existed then ends up as the downfall timeline

you see a similar concept in tons of different sci-fi stories and vidya, wherein time travel itself is just you hopping over to separate dimensions where you didnt already exist or else you could cause a paradox

>>7330424
It fits together with some other pieces too if we think more about what "first dungeon" actually means. Some people's first thought might be that it's the first dungeon in the game, the one that the player completes first. That might be the case, but if we treat it as the first dungeon that was developed, then things get interesting. There's obvious similarities between fst_dan and Ganon's Tower, and we know that, despite all of the changes made to OoT throughout it's development, Ganondorf's design was one of the earliest to be finalized and remained the same throughout everything we've seen. So like that Anon mentioned, they knew right from the get go that they wanted Ganon and his castle to be a major part of the game, so why not work on that first while the rest of the game is fleshed out?

>>7330493
>Some people's first thought might be that it's the first dungeon in the game, the one that the player completes first
>That might be the case, but if we treat it as the first dungeon that was developed, then things get interesting
im pretty sure this a pretty common thing in vidya development
working backwards from the end, you can make that one the hardest one you can think of. this gives you a good reference in designing the difficulty curve. makes it much easier to work in reverse and make the preceding dungeons slightly easier once you have a reference point like that

>>7330524
I don't think it's that cut and dry, considering that one would expect the final dungeon in the game to utilize all of the tools/skills acquired by the player throughout the game, and those may change during development which would force the devs to revisit those areas they already made. We already know this to be the case with OoT seeing as how half of the medallion spells/arrows were removed.

>>7330404
>>7330424
>>7330493
In the final game everything regarding dungeons are filed under Gameplay_Dangeon_Keep or have Dan in it, all evidence point to it being "first dungeon", I was just wondering if they ever intended it to be an actual in game dungeon or just purely a test.

>>7330308
>Twilight Princess has a minor cutscene saying the three goddesses sealed away the Twilight Realm.

They're also on murals in The City In The Sky

>>7330582
>considering that one would expect the final dungeon in the game to utilize all of the tools/skills acquired by the player throughout the game, and those may change during development which would force the devs to revisit those areas they already made
of course, but then imo, judging on the timeframe these are from, and the total lack of any "actors" in the OoT/vidya sense, which includes characters, enemies, grass, signs, and even doors, id wager this is exactly what were looking at:
one of the level designers very first attempts at making something, knowing it was to be nothing more than a placeholder/starting point once evrything else started to catch up in development.

its more or less what youd expect in this kind of circumstance
very barebones, and very big/spacious, as he likely had no size reference to any of the characters/things that were going to go in it, nevermind the mechanics which were undoubtedly not even close to finalized at that point
but having a starting point like this would at least spare him from the agony of staring at a "blank canvas" once the rest of the stuff started to fall into place

>>7330618
id say the latter
see above

>>7330493
They originally planned to have Ganon's castle be a hub world that warped you around Hyrule like Mario 64 with Peach's castle and paintings.

So I was reading that Jabu Jabu is in Lake Hylia in this build, while Water Temple is still unknown. We also don't have Zora's domain hinting the two dungeons probably swapped locations.

>>7330681
good call on them for scrapping that then
as empty as hyrule field seems nowadays, it was THAT, more so than anything else, which made this game such a hit on release

>>7330486
>this would leave the timeline where adult link defeats ganon, "link-less" after hes warped back, and this timeline where the hero of time is gone/never existed then ends up as the downfall timeline
Only problem with this premise is that we have 2 official sources (Hyrule Historia and the Japanese Zelda timeline site) saying downfall occurs because, in that particular timeline, Ganon managed to kill the Hero of Time, causing Zelda to retreat and leading to the Imprisoning War

>>7330702
It wasn't really that they changed their minds, it was more of a backup plan in case they didn't have enough room on cart to fit the entire world IIRC

>>7330713
>in that particular timeline, Ganon managed to kill the Hero of Time
sure but think about it from the perspective of someone in that actual timeline
other than zelda herself likely from a different timeline, no one was there to see it happen
and immediately after the fight, link is put back in time, essentially leaving a hero-of-time-less timeline. from the vantage of that timeline, it would seem like the sages single-handedly sealed ganon, which lines up pretty well with the LttP intro where the hero of time doesnt, and never did, exist

idk tho
its hard to put too much thought into it, and at this point, with the stupefying amount of titles in the series, its hard not to just call the whole thing one big retcon

https://twitter.com/MrTalida/status/1353458109700837381

The evolution of Hyrule Field

>>7328924
How am I an asshole Why would you even call someone an asshole over something like this? What's wrong with you? And as for being lazy, I did eventually find the pastebin (the /v/ thread linked by OP did NOT have it), and the Evil Goddess Din thing wasn't even there, just "Desert Collossus (Evil God Statue)".
>>7329130
So there's an "Evil Desert Goddess Din Statue" label and a regular "Evil God Statue" label?

>>7329645
>>7329653
The forest dungeon in Wind Waker had a wind theme, so this the Wind Medallion being a Forest Temple reward is perfectly in line with Nintendo Logic(tm).

>>7329130
I've only seen the "Evil Goddess Statue Din" label in the graphics that come from this overdump.
I don't know if Eevil God Statue is in the graphics for this version, but I know for a fact that's the internal name for the Desert Colossus in the game itself.

Don't listen to that anon, he's a faggot, someone uploaded a text dump of everything in one of the /v/ threads but fuck if I can remember WHICH thread. It was when people began translating the story and such with Google translate.

>>7326632
>I never played the Oracle games
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

>>7330686
I think not all the maps are from the same time in development, there are some from spaceworld and others that are very early

>>7330825

>>7330864
Was meant for >>7330854
Sorry

>>7329645
>>7330859

Isn't wind or air pretty commonly associated with wood/plant life in East Asian culture?

>>7330874
I'm certain we're still missing versions, even the second map shown there has Hyrule Castle as the map's "center" point despite there not being anything further north visibly.

>>7329659
I never realized it before, but isn't that enemy there using the same texture they used for Metal Mario (the beta one)?

>>7330885
precisely. seems like everything metal used it during development, there's stalfos with metal shields using that texture

>>7330874
Looks like the ranch is doesn't seem like its own instanced zone in the second map? Wonder how that would've been with the stalchilds when nighttime came around.

>>7330905
The text in the overdump says that at night, Gerudo thieves are attacking, not Stalchildren. Apparently, the ranch would've acted like a traveller's in so you'd spend the night there if you don't want to fight Gerudo thieves off until sunrise.

>>7330905
>Wonder how that would've been with the stalchilds when nighttime came around.
Gerudo bandits too

>>7330432
Link only has one perspective. In adult link he still has the mind of a child since his soul was sealed for 7 years. Link would say he is in the future since he didn't get to where he is naturally. Also zelda at the end "returns" him to "his" timeline. I'm pretty sure the writing in OoT reflects that single perspective as well.

>>7329918
>>7330065
I was thinking about the Beta Quest the other day and all the hours I spent playing around with GameShark as a kid. On a technical level, what was the Beta Quest, anyway? It caused some unused elements such as the ocarina pedestal to appear, but does the code actually call on old unused map data or is it basically just a randomizer?

>>7330937
In "beta quest" you are basically just walking around cutscenes which were "filmed" prior to release, and so they reflect earlier elements, actors and exits.

>>7330880
>>7330880
In the classical Chinese elements, Wood is the element most commonly associated with wind. It's not like, a 1:1 substitution, but Wood's associated with spring and the winds and storms that season brings.

>>7330937
You're forcing yourself to play on cutscenes as if they were playable segments. These cutscenes were made real-time since, although the 64DD (and later as shown by RE2, the 64 itself) could TECHNICALLY do FMVs, the cutscene dirrectors didn't want to render cutscenes over and over and over again every time the team redesigned an area. So he made the cutscened in-engine, done real time by the console. as such, even though the map kept getting changed, there's code hardcoded into the cutscene, namely actors and objects. That's why strange objects out of bounds, or the old Ocarina Pedestal pop up.

>>7330937
A short, non-technical answer would be wrong warping.

>>7330883
Its possible that they could have been thinking of having multiple hyrule fields in different directions with the different exits of castle town leading to each like in twilight princess.

>>7331006
But then each segment would be it's own Hyrule Field with it's own center point at the center of the map just like in every other map in Ocarina of Time.
A map is a "single room or area" loaded at the moment. To give an example, when you enter Dodongo's Cavern, the room with the giant school is a map in itself.

While the WHOLE dungeon is called a scene. Scenes don't have center points programmed in.

>>7330854
>>7330864
I decided to do some digging, found the pastebin, but I can't find neither Evil God Statue or Evil Goddess Din, only Evil Goddess Din I found was in the leaked graphics posted here >>7329130 while Evil God Statue is used in the final Japanese game for Desert Colossus.

>>7331032
Here's the Bin, I forgot to post it https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fpastebin.com%2Fraw%2FjqEpFpht

>>7331026
Then whats the problem with hyrule castle being the center of hyrule field?

>>7330867
Don't do what, play the Oracle games?>>7330874
Why is the first one even being considered Hyrule Field Obviously that's Castle Town in the center, but the area surrounding it is so small that what's to suggest that you didn't originally enter this map from Hyrule Field?

>>7330854
>How am I an asshole Why would you even call someone an asshole over something like this? What's wrong with you?

I agree, disrespectful behavior on 4chan is getting out of control.

>>7331045
It's not a problem, what I'm saying is that we're still missing an earlier Hyrule Field map, where Hyrule Castle was at the center of the world like literally every Zelda game.
Even Termina Field has it's center point coded at the actual center of the map, it being on the top of the map is extremely odd. It's our clue that at some point Hyrule Field was either EVEN bigger hence the shitty pink fog, or arranged differently and Castle Town was at the center, just like clock Town in Termina.

>>7331058
>getting
lol fuck off

Holy hell so many of these models are jank as shit when you look at them up close

>>7331087
Care explaining what am I looking at? Is that in the beta map where the Light Symbol is? because that symbol texture is misaligned too in the map

>>7330897
And we didn't get that texture till the Gigaleak, right? It was changed before release?

Man, what a time to be alive! I feel like a teenager again going over all these old screenshots and making discoveries. 16 year old me spent hours exploring the "Beta Quest", but if only we had access to all this material then...

>>7331094
that's the master sword pedistal

>>7331096
>And we didn't get that texture till the Gigaleak, right? It was changed before release?
Not 100% sure sorry.

>>7331087
64 bit floating point precision baby

>>7331074
I think my multiple hyrule field idea makes more sense then. Because in that case hyrule castle at that time would be the center of multiple maps rather just one map. The center of the world I guess.

>>7331087
Welcome to game developmet

>>7331032
Right, that's why I'm a little suspicious of that Anon's post. While the graphics he posted do translate to what he's claiming, it's strange that neither the Pastebin nor TCRF's translation of the menu icons makes mention of it.

>>7331107
>I think my multiple hyrule field idea makes more sense then. Because in that case hyrule castle at that time would be the center of multiple maps rather just one map. The center of the world I guess.
The problem with what you propose is that it'd be then the center of a Scene, not the center of a map, which is what this anchorpoint I'm talking about refers about.

Pic related, including a mockup some /v/ anon did of how Hyrule Castle would've then looked.

Added to that, the oldest map we currently have is an object and not part of the map. This decision is baffling at face value, but it seems because if the world was bigger as it seems, to save memory, Castle Town wouldn't be loaded until you get close, hence all the fog in all screenshots to hide when it starts loading up in the screen.

>>7331050

>>7331153
How the fuck did someone make that connection right away?!

>>7331170
It wasn't right away, it was this week when we got the currently-earliest-available Hyrule Field from the overdump and people got close to the castle walls and began comparing.
Plus the map calling for a lot of tree objects, it seems.
And as it's been said, that version of Hyrule field has an amazingly shitty draw distance, fog would've hid it.

>>7331140
Yeah I know. So we don't have the rest of the scene or it wasn't made yet. You're saying you want a single big map that has castle town in the middle of it? I'm pretty sure they realized that they weren't going to be able to pull that off early on.
And why would multiple hyrule fields even need to be part of a scene anyway if they wouldn't be directly connected? I don' t think Hyrule field and castle town are part of the same scene.

>>7331170
People pored over these images for years after the game released, memorizing every autistic detail

I was one of them

>>7331176
Actually, I was the one who posted those two images on /v/ and I grabbed them from here around when the Gigaleaks happened.

>>7331194
>You're saying you want a single big map that has castle town in the middle of it?
It's not what I want, it's what the currently available evidence implies.
It's not implausible, however, the idea of interconnected sub fields from TP was born from the failure to realize a humongous open world in OoT

>>7331197
So was I

>>7331201
Well, fuck me.
Good job, anon.

>>7331153

>>7331209
Oh like you mean the map that the original actor castle town would spawn in. I doubt it would have much going on in it but yeah it would be cool to see.

>>7331153
What confuses me is if you have a grand vista of the walls of Hyrule castle town, why do you never take a screenshot that focuses on it to prominently show it off? Was it actually never really 'finished' texture-wise before it moved on to a later stage?

>>7331232

>>7331238
>tfw you will never see it fully formed

>>7331153
How many screen shots do we have from the AB only era of zelda's development?

>>7331245
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/A_%2B_B

>>7331236
If you play the ROM currently available on Dr. disco's youtube channel (z64me) you can see for yourself how shitty the draw distance in the proto Forest Meadow and the early Hyrule Field is. Speaking of which, on a personal note, I believe the "Hyrule Field with Castle Town at the center" Might've been attempted during the A+B period while the "early Hyrule Field" we can now play on thanks to this overdump must be from the A+C period seen here. >>7331232

But I don't know if people have done comparisons.

>>7331243
The only way we'll ever get answers about everything is for someone to score an interview with Yoshiaki Koizumi and pull out a laptop and show him all this stuff. He's the one Zelda dev who I think is cool enough that we could trust that he won't freak out and leave the room if the subject of emulation and old rom materials comes up. Possibly the only one who'd been with the projects from the start who would remember what their original plans were.

>>7331253
Going through this kind of comparison to line up all the pre-release screenshots with different eras of the data from the roms is going to be meticulous work.

>>7331238
Do notice that the textures are a little different on what would be the bridge in the newer one

>>7331271
There may be non-disclosure agreements

>>7331271
You would have to get a bunch of anonymous exdevs. I don't think anyone currently at nintendo would openly start talking about behind the scenes stuff even if you showed them what you have.

>>7331295
>>7331286
also they're japs so they hate anything that isn't the final game

>>7331280
Probably because the overdump data comes from this period:
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Early_Sword_on_A
As you can see, Link already seems to have a tamed horse like Epona in the final and the Hyrule Field he's exploring seems to be the one we now have access to.

At this point the storyline of OoT seems to have been decided upon in general beats.

>>7331271
Last time someone did that with a Japanese director (the director from Shadow of the Colossus, when told how fans hack over the game to find more mysteries) he called that "illegal sources", got pissed off and refused to comment further on the removed areas or colossi. Japanese are VERY different from the rest of the world.

>>7331304
The reason I mentioned Koizumi was to circumvent dumb responses like this, but I guess not everyone's familiar with Koizumi's interviews and how open he is when asked about the development of games.

>>7331317
To random interviewers? How in depth has he gone?

You'd be better off if you actually could interview someone currently working at Nintendo in an official capacity asking leading questions based on information you know from the leaks and this overdump to fill in gaps in knowledge this data doesnt provide without actually mentioning the leaks or this rom dump explicitly.

>>7331337
"Sorry I can't talk about that."

>>7331342
AKA "I know all the answers but fuck you" but written in legalese

>>7331313
Yeah, but you're talking about the Ico/ Shadow of the Colossus guy. Doesn't he seem like the sort of person who be all business and have a major stick up his ass about that sort of thing? Koizumi is the type of guy who would randomly volunteer information about Zelda 2 remakes and Zelda 64 being thought of a "chanbara" (sword style) game early in development (source: Iwata Asks).


>>7331328
He did that interview where he politely threw Miyamoto under the bus by telling the interviewer that Shiggy disliked stories in Mario games and that had he had to sneak Galaxy's story into the game. If he's that frank, then surely he wouldn't mind commenting on some old screenshots.

I went look up stuff, Zelda 64 went "multi-plat" in March 1997. This was still the A+B period of the game where the C-Buttons seem to have worked as camera controls like Mario 64, apparently.

Either way I say "multi-plat" because at this poitn 2 versions of the same game were being created in tandem, a disk version and a cartridge version, the later becoming Ocarina of Time eventually

https://web.archive.org/web/20000819150344/http://ign64.ign.com/news/580.html

>>7331351
Probably if someone asked him questions about the overdump without bringing up the overdump directly or indirectly, just showing him the ancient magazine scans and going, for example

"Hypothetically, what was the purpose of that boardwalk in the Lake area? Was it getting used somehow?"

>>7326549
Oh man I love these leak generals that are two posts of content followed by hundreds of comments full of autistic speculations based on head canon.

>>7331342
Thats not typically how they respond when talking to a legit game journalist from a known publication.

See something like
https://www.nintendoenthusiast.com/a-link-to-the-past-was-originally-designed-with-multiple-parallel-worlds/

where Tanabe revealed information about the early stages of ALTTP's design process in an interview

>>7331362
>sorry we only talk to rich people

>>7331363
Yes you would have to be a game journalist, not some guy off the street.

>>7331351
"Koizumi san NEVER do that ever again."
"Yes Miyamoto sama, never again Miyamoto sama." Chills ran up koizumi's spine as he remembered what happened to Gunpei jiisan.

Wouldn't actually be surprised if a few devs were suicided for doing shit they didn't like
the Japanese mafia is still a force to be reckoned with

>>7331379
Talking about the initial design of a 25+ year old game isnt one of those things though

>>7331357
>Hypothetically, what was the purpose of that boardwalk in the Lake area? Was it getting used somehow?"
Oh yeah, what's with that boardwalk? Any theories as to why it's missing from the Shoshinkai 97 map we got? Is it from an older version?

>>7331374
kek

>>7331410
It has a loadzone and that's as far as we know.

>>7331410
The boardwalk isn't missing from the version we got. IF you approach it it takes you to Inside Jabu Jabu, DrDisco probably put that pointer to avoid a crash.

>>7331417
I think the loading zone is itself a glitch
like it has an outdated collision format or something

>>7331393
It might be. They keep their cards close to their chest. To be honest if they wanted to release the information they could just sell it in a book, but they dont because they dont want to. And anyone who has a loose tongue? Rumour has it they end up working the pachinko mines never to be heard from again.
At least thats how it works at konami anyway.

You will never know the day to day events of the development of games you played as a child

>>7331431
I doubt many inside Nintendo think books with screenshots of proto builds or tiny moved details in prototype rooms of random dungeons would sell. They dont understand the level of autism present for these games

>>7331450
Im sure they do. After all they sold a book purely on the fact that it revealed the zelda timeline.

>>7331425
The map also has Jabu's model loaded in front of the dock though.

>>7331462
Timeline crowd is much bigger than proto crowd

>>7331474
Its literally the same crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbTcYkyZG5k

>>7331508
Did /v/ have another thread dumping screenshots of these? When I looked there last it was people arguing about whether or not they could have a thread discussing video games. I haven't seen another thread since.

>>7331508
>@Lainbowie noticed that there was collision beyond this empty doorway. I added a door there and now Link has more beta rooms to explore!
So he just missed loading triggers for these rooms and they were always there?
These aren't part of the older maps they found right?

>>7331508
Time for someone patch the rom.

>>7331572

>>7331575

>>7331581

>>7331584

>>7331508
They way they're set up makes me think those two rooms had some sort of connection since both have the same general layout, the upper one just has added pillars, this added platform and no 2nd exit.
But they both have the same size, pillars in the corners, top ornament border and hexagon platform.

>>7331584
was the magic bar originally split into 1/4th?

>>7331587
>>7331590
looks like it

>>7331562
Does the patched rom from last thread even have all the maps? In one of the last /v/ threads someone said there could still be more maps to uncover

>>7331581
I *knew* I had seen that archery map somewhere before. Nice.

>>7331575
-
>>7331592
God damn this is fucking great

>>7331592
God, I love that we can finally see that graveyard for ourselves. If only it wasn't surrounded by those giant hills you could almost recreate the exact shot.

>>7331592
There has been another one figured out earlier.

>>7331612
and in case you're wondering about the square minimap and it not being that symmetrical maze:
the ceiling is a square plane that's backface culled above tha maze.

Has anyone else walked through a loading point in the patched ROM and got warped to a blank map with containing wooden floor, only for the game to crash the second you move?

>>7326404
>>7326545
The artist for the Megaman games has also drawn lewd pictures of Roll and Tron Bonne IIRC

>>7331592
>>7331612

>>7331687
Yeah, he got in trouble with Capcom over it though and they made him stop.

>>7330341
from my point of view with the interviews detailing they were originally going to have the game centred around ganon's towers ala super mario 64 and coupled with the first ideas of oot being a 3d reconstruction of lttp when they were first developing and working with 3d. Perhaps link's first dungeon or segment was making his way up the tower, leading to a fight with ganon, being blasted off and then needing to travel beyond the gate of castle town and retrieving the 6 medallions or sages. So like bowser, ganondorf seises control of hyrule castle and link needs to find the 6 sages to seal him back away. Short and simplified lttp

>>7331575
People always use emulators that fuck up the light rays

>>7331804
I think alot fo people also forget when starting zelda 64 there was a massive focus on combat and less on puzzles when first building the game. Maybe the reason why the the tower is so streamlined and floor by floor is because the focus was to adjust players to fight enemies in large rooms, leading eventually to ganon on top of the rood

>>7331846
Is that not just a result of anti aliasing?

>>7331892
I assume its because they're designed for 240p and look like shit otherwise

Any news on the 180-something maps that have yet to be extracted and opened?

>>7332072
They still haven't been converted to the newer format yet.

>>7332083
Unfortunate. I hope they'll do it before interest dies down.

>>7332072
heard a rumbling they're also smaller, dont expect castle town or anything major

>>7332090
Yeah but they could be connective rooms.
If that's true then we'd likely have the whole damn game and not just parts of them.

>>7331587
In the A+B screenshot you can see there's something else in the lake missing in the map

>>7331664
In my end it doesn't crash on my end but it runs like hot garbage at like 4 fps.

>>7332135
Yeah, it looks like the A+B shot is from a later build

>>7331892
I think so. Particularly the way N64 does it seems to make it look natural and never looks right on the less visually accurate emulators. >>7331702 This looks a lot better for example

>>7331484
Some overlap, not entirely

>>7332148
A+B is an ealier build, from October 1996. The overdump data we have currently is from the period known as "Early Sword on A" used on 1997 after A+C was scrapped, and the game moved from Disk to cartride. It's the build where the HUD and stuff largely resembles the final, but it's still off.

>>7332220
Oh? I thought this was all just map data being ported to a final build. My mistake

>>7332259
It is map data, but it's map data from Space World 1997 which is during a development period known as "Early Sword on A".
It's like a weird bridging period between Zelda 64 and what would become Ocarina of Time

>>7326549
Based on absolutely no evidence except Shadow being an element attributed to the Sheikah, who are ninja, I present you this theory:

>During this period of development, they had just began changing the plot to account for Child Link and time travel, as we know
>According to the "seal" graphics, the Shadow Sage was Mido (hence "Mido's Seal".
>We did not know of Sheik publicly until mid-1998 by a time his design was largely finalized except for having blue eyes
>However, 2011's Hyrule Historia gave us this art piece dating September 1996 if not EARLIER than that
>Here we can see EL SHEIK MORENAZO
Since EL SHEIK MORENAZO is seemingly still what would become the final Sheik (and therefore, still a Sheikah considering the Lens of Truth already exist in this mid-1997 data), what if then
>this version of Sheik is the Shadow Sage
>Therefore, this version of Sheik is Mido.

Dumb asspull theories for your consideration.

>>7332309
still kind of amusing that it's "sheik" as a name
like hello, it is i, californ, the last survivor of the californians

>>7332309
As good a theory as any, really.

>>7332362
Not only that, despite being an alleged Ninja, Sheik is a very middle eastern term, and Sheik's design does have some middle eastern motifs to her like the turban and the bandages, while in that old artwork being dark skinned makes these themes much stronger.

I guess at some point late in development they decided to turn sheik into zelda as opposed to be a separate character.

>>7328469
Is it meant to represent 8 heart pieces or at some point the game had a Mario 64 like health meter?

>>7332392
According to the text found in the overdump "8 heart pieces make a new heart container".

>>7332461
You may hate it but it is undoubtably the best racing game

>>7332475
In the context of this thread, F-Zero X overwrote all the music, models, and actor data in this 97 spaceworld leak.

>>7326614
Yep, someone got an F-Zero X dev cart and, by a miracle, happened to have OoT data. So while >>7332461 may be angry, it is thanks to F-Zero we have access to the overdump at ALL.

>>7332482
We basically got monkey paw, man.
"I want an older build of Zelda".

>>7326898
What a genuine smile.

>>7330493
So the Zoras where supposed to look a lot more like their older counterparts, more Sagahin-like.

>>7330065
This is creepy as fuck. The fact that the game just locks up on this strange empty space that resembles a proper location...what is it hiding? Realtalk, this is actually the area that shows up in Farore's part of the "creation of Hyrule" cutscene, and I'm pretty sure it is just the area around the Deku Tree.

>>7330124
>>7330138
That's not a CPU function thing, it's an inventory menu. All of those values relate to the inventory. The first number is your wallet. The "14 14 0/4" thing is health; the first number "14" is total hearts, and "14 0/4" is how many hearts and quarter-hearts you have out of that total. The rows of numbers below all directly correspond to C items in the inventory menu. Don't remember how the rest works.

>>7330341
I would say not considering how basic the layout is.

>>7330915
>The text in the overdump says that at night, Gerudo thieves are attacking, not Stalchildren.
Holy fuck that sounds so much cooler. Imagine being ambushed by Gerudo in the middle of the night.

>>7330187
Did anyone ever make a patched ROM for the Gigaleak maps? I still haven't been able to play them, but really want to.

>>7332590
Another text is from when Ganondorf raided the castle.
>What's going on? A gang of Gerudo showed up all of a sudden...
Seems like Ganondorf was supposed to have a Gerudo raiding party during his ride instead of working solo.
The Gerudo really got shafted in the final product. They were supposed to be part of the main villains instead of just a semi-hostile town.

>>7331420
What I was calling the boardwalk is what >>7332135 is referring to. What even is that?
>>7332220
Assuming you're right and it is from later (which I don't see why it wouldn't be from the Sword on A period), you would think Lake Hylia would have more detail at this point and not less. Our build is missing whatever those objects are between Link and Aria, as well as that wharf or whatever that thing is in the background. Even if you were to insert Aria into that spot and redo the UI, you still couldn't exactly recreate the A+B shot.

>>7332613
Yes, check the comments here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHWcylaYDk4
However, it should be noted this is a very preliminary patch. The Kokiri maps don't have background colors yet, and none of the maps even have any actors. A guy who goes by zel is compiling a more complete patch that will include actors. Pic related is an example of his work with restoring actors. Apparently most of the actors in these maps are just off by 1 of actors from the final game.

>>7332309
>Therefore, this version of Sheik is Mido.
This dovetails nicely with the theory--now arguably supported by the recently uncovered text from this period--that the Kokiri were meant to grow up. But could Mido have grown up to look like *that*?

>>7332629
Thanks!
>and none of the maps even have any actors. A guy who goes by zel is compiling a more complete patch that will include actors. Pic related is an example of his work with restoring actors. Apparently most of the actors in these maps are just off by 1 of actors from the final game.
So unlike the F-Zero dev cart, the maps from the Gigaleak actually did have actor data associate with them, they just need to be edited into the right place? Am I understanding correctly?

>>7332638
That's what I've been seeing, yes. For example, the Lake Hylia map has Jabu Jabu's model loaded in. Here is Lake Hylia with some actors.
https://twitter.com/xdanieldzd/status/1352476333956345857

>>7332613
>>7332638
Wait, shit. I thought you were asking for F-Zero X OOT map dumps. That's what these are, and they actually do have actors associated with them, that just aren't loading right. As for the Gigaleak, no, they had no maps with them. I don't remember where to find the gigaleak maps patch, but here's an fstdan maps patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDdQpJiqZo

>>7332651
>they had no maps with them
*no actors with them. 4AM tiredness is fucking with my head.

>>7332647
I was asking about whether the Gigaleak's actors were missing from its maps, that's SW97 Lake Hylia.
>>7332651
Wait, wait, wait. I've seen it said it over and over again that this dump is missing all the actors. (As opposed to the Gigaleak maps, which... well, the video you just linked to has Link fighting a stalfo in fstdan) But that's wrong? At least SOME of the F-Zero dump maps have actors associated with them that simply aren't loading right? Do you know if z64me or someone else plans to release a second patched ROM that adds them back in?

u guys figure out the identity of sheik yet? pm me for more info ;)

>>7332590
>>7332617
A lot of these old ideas I hear about sound cool on paper or it's interesting to hear such a fitting alternative version that seems to make a lot of sense, but it probably would have created a much less interesting product. Nintendo did a good job of avoiding the obvious tropes and mixing it up with changes like that. The final Gerudos are a lot more interesting. Being the town Ganon was suppose to be King of yet they rejected him, as opposed to just being another generic part of Ganon's army. It also put them in a weird grey area which made them stand out a lot more than just being other enemies or just friendlies.

>>7332716
In the case of the Gerudo, I think Miyamoto probably decided he didn't want Link fighting humans. Can you imagine actually killing women on horseback? Not a good image for Link's first 3D outing.

>>7332729
But you literally shoot them with arrows when sneaking out of their base

>>7331104
they honestly didnt do that bad considering how early this was done
people give OoT retroactive shit for being janky and totally broken, but it was a remarkable piece of software for its time

>>7332691
yea dude
everyone knows its impa in her cosplay outfit

>>7332631
I don't Mido would have been the same person in that version, we don't see him mentioned in any of the text.

The only way I can see Sage Mido being the same person as final Mido is if he left Kokiri Forest the same time you did and would be a recurring rival character like Blue from Pokemon.

>>7332461
>>7332475
>>7332482
>>7332483
F-Zero fans can't catch a break, first the creator of the series leaving Nintendo, then a rom that ended up revealing contained Zelda stuff

>>7332072
Theres like 20 that havent been opened.

>>7332072
Apparently one of them is a debug Jabu room
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC92EKGKAaWgpFcpkmBVcdsw/videos

>>7330854
It's been suggested that the text was in the middle of being rewritten, hence there being different lines indicating Princess Ruto or King Zora gave the Zora's Sapphire in the proto.

>>7329695
>Sword-focused combats, the first 2 enemies shown are Iron Knuckle and Stalfos, with the Stalfos actor even called En_Test
Y'know, this probably means the proto-Stalfos was supposed to be Stalfone, aka Skeleton/Stalfos Knight, just like how the blue proto-Wallmaster actually coming out of the wall is supposed to be OG Wallmaster and not the "Fallmaster" kind.

>>7332629
He was asking for a rom of Gigaleak maps.
This is a rom with the Overdump maps.

>>7330770
>sure but think about it from the perspective of someone in that actual timeline
No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViWp7ihxdrc

>>7330360
>I know for a fact that's the internal name for the Desert Colossus in the game itself.
Is that true?

>>7333126
>implying any of the timeline shit is anything other than an elaborate excuse to allow them to retcon the series indefinitely so they can keep making zelda titles forever and keep the shekels flowing
ok

>>7333126
also
>ganondorf
>NOT ganon
that scenario lines up even better with that theory
link gets the ocarina of time in that """confrontation""", where ganondorf knocks him on his ass and then GTFOs. after that link opens the door of time and leaves that timeline forever, leaving a timeline where the hero got the 3 spirit stones, got his ass kicked, then left forever, leaving the door of time wide open behind him and allowing ganondorf to take over hyrule.
in that timeline, the only way ganon could ever get 86d is by the sages sealing them themselves
ie: the downfall line

>>7333162
I thought the downfall timeline began with Link dying to Ganon in the ruins of the destroyed castle after the first round

>>7330915
GUYS, WHAT IF
>Child-era, Gerudos attack at night.
>Adult-era, Stalchilds attack at night.
>Because in the future, the Gerudos are under Ganondorf's oppression too (see the Iron Knuckles, matching with rumors of other brainwashed victims besides Nabooru), so they become the semihostiles they always are in the final, but Stalchilds fit in with the "grim" theme of the future and are fallen victims of past pillages.

>>7333181
I think thats the picture thats shown in the HH when it talks about it.

>>7332809
Yeah and that knocks them out with dizzy spells, not kills them, though I swear the Iron Knuckles were snuck in there to be extremely subtle, there's only one line of exposition about Nabooru experimenting in brainwashing at the Desert Colossus which seems like an orphaned reference to all the other Iron Knuckles being Gerudo but Twinrova had the disappearances blamed on Nabooru.

https://noclip.website/#zelview_beta

>>7333162
Dude your "Link marooned the timeline" theory dates back to when Hyrule Historia was getting released and the only part translated initially was the overview where it just said "the hero is defeated/successful" and the details on the other pages weren't known yet, please let this retardation die out already.

>>7333201
Should be under experimental when you use that link

Is there a legitimate reason why enemies like the iron knuckle and other sorts of enemies that are combat based have been neglected in the franchise since? I mean looking back on the previous entries its a no brainer to bring the iron knuckle into skyward sword but we're stuck with moblin sword puzzles
>>7333183
>Because in the future, the Gerudos are under Ganondorf's oppression
this sounds like like an awesome concept for a future title but i guess its already been done with the yiga clan in botw

>>7333162
>in that timeline, the only way ganon could ever get 86d is by the sages sealing them themselves
Except the Sages don't exist in that scenario, the entire goal during Hyrule's future is to "awaken" NEW Sages sans Rauru, remember? Whether the Hero of Time succeeds or fails his overall mission, he still needs to have awakened a new set of Sages. If he fails before then, Ganondorf gets the Triforce of Courage and probably seen after the Triforce of Wisdom with no one to seal him. Theoretically, you could have him fail anytime after he opens all the barriers for the Sages' magic to reach Ganon's Tower and before he deals the final blow to Ganon, but there's an implied significance with the Triforce pieces "resonating" during the battle with Ganondorf.

>>7331351
>that had he had to sneak Galaxy's story into the game.
No, people are mixing two different aspects of that story.
Koizumi snuck story elements into various Mario and Zelda games for most of his career at Nintendo.
https://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/
What made Galaxy different is that Koizumi worked on the storybook by himself before presenting it to Miyamoto.
(Pic related)

>>7333267
what an environment to work in when you have to keep things a secret around the people you work with.

>>7333267
Pardon me, but which issue of Nintendo Power was that?

>>7333312
Feburary 2008, according to the source I found that from.
>>7333296
Fair enough.

>>7333359

>>7333267
This guy needs to be in charge of the Zelda series.

>>7333370
I just really liked how this looked

>>7333134
You quoted the wrong person, nigga

>>7330360
>You're not entirely wrong, the whole point of the Downfall timeline is that even Faith on the gods has dwindled down, with foreign symbols starting showing up (like the christian cross) and while "Hylia" is a new character, you could argue she was already foreshadowed in Zelda 2, with the Trophy. It's supposed to depict a goddess in the FDS Japanese version and it looks identical to the Hylia statues in SS and BotW. She's a lesser God, one that looks over the world after the creator goddesses left, but yeah.
Hylia was definitely foreshadowed way back in ALttP when the Hylians were referred to as the people of Hylia, but I never noticed that the Trophy from Zelda II is a Goddess Status - that's apparently a translation of its name in the Japanese version - but ironically the English release looks more like what Goddess Statues would later look like with the hands together.

As for the Crosses, they were in the NES games and ALttP artwork of Hyrulean(?) Christ (when Link starts to pray/"wish" in that game he even does a cross motion!) but they almost appeared in Ocarina of Time judging by the leaked early tombstone texture so I'm inclined to think it's less the downfall timeline (also considering they're nowhere to be found in the other games in that timeline) and more the early games just took from real-world symbols like the Gerudo symbol and it was changed later to go in a different direction.

>>7333381

Do you reckon all of this stuff is still on hard drives at Nintendo HQ somewhere?

>>7332625
>which I don't see why it wouldn't be from the Sword on A period
Our map seem to match 1:1 this Early Sword on A screenshot from early 1997. >>7331584

>>7333069
The Stalfos maps from 1996 discovered in the Debug ROM back in the day show them having the names Stalfos Miniboss Room and Boss Stalfos Room. They were always meant to be Stalfos. Remember, Zelda 2's Stalfos also carry swords and shields.

>>7333483
most likely, there's probably a whole floor at the headquarters that archives and catalogues beta roms and concept art over the years. Its mentioned a lot but they probably dont release much of it just in case its later retooled for a future title
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0QNJ0Xbaw&t=1018s&ab_channel=btm0815ma
I mean even with this being the american headquarters its a miracle to see it resurface

>>7333550
>but they probably dont release much of it just in case its later retooled for a future title
Happens all the time, but they never actually tell us when they do.

>>7333535
>Remember, Zelda 2's Stalfos also carry swords and shields.
Zelda II's Stalfos were mistranslated but fair enough.

>>7333134
I can't find the exact TCRF page but yesh, the colossus and everything for the spirit Temple has a jyo-something name which is evil god statue in romaji.

>>7333572
Referring to "Din" specifically, otherwise it's close to the final JP name.

>>7326582
Sadly the only closest thing we have is the hyrule historia. I don't think nintendo will put in the effort for extremely detailed zelda lore, we're just going to have to depend on fan theories.

>>7331038
>That is Mt. Hebra ... Also known as Death Mountain.
Why the hell would they get rid of this? It aligns with Japanese ALttP!

>>7333663
No idea but the name Hebra was one the Japanese didn't hear from again until ALBW. I guess someone in Nintendo liked Death Mountain better as a name?

>>7333550
Interesting, cheers for this.

>>7333592
>>7333572
Ok, I went look, internally in the game's data the Spirit Temple is called "jyashinzou dungeon" which means Evil God Statue Dungeon (邪神像ダンジョン), and everything for that dungeon has names under obj_jya. Jyashinzou is also the final name of the Desert Colosus area but the dungeon name graphics we got in the overdump for the dungeons specify the Evil God as Din.

>>7333069
>>7333535
It's still possible the OoT devs took influence from both earlier Stalfos but realized the Japanese name for Stalfos Knight (スタルフォン) was too easily confused with regular Stalfos (スタルフォス) for the same game. They just decided to throw that name away (like they eventually did in Cadence of Hyrule by reusing the English name, スタルフォスナイト). So the knight guys are analogous to Stalfos Knight but went by "Stalfos" while the baby ones are based on basic Stalfos but go by "Stalchild" (スタルベビー). That's just a wild guess though, if true it'd have had to be decided very early on going by the filenames.
>>7329695
>>7329743
Just guessimg, but when the Forest Temple looked more like a Zelda II palace, was Dark Link supposed to be encountered there? It was always odd that he was randomly found in the Water Temple, but if he's a Zelda II reference, it makes sense for him to be in the giant Zelda II reference. Plus it being the first dungeon Link tackles as an adult and being close to his childhood home makes sense. They were gonna have child Link face (smaller?) Moblins before his first dungeon so clearly they hadn't rebalanced yet.

>>7333296
Sounds like all my jobs.

>>7333904
Your guess is as good as any but clearly the map data we have comes from a transitional period where the story and map design was just getting overhauled to account for the introduction of child Link and the time travel mechanic, it's possible that path with moblins were meant for Adult Link who was the only Link for over half of the development cycle. However, at face value, we have no evidence to say you'd fight Dark Link in the Forest Temple but in the room you fight Stalfos in the final game, spawns Dark Link in the debug room. It is theorized that the room was purely to test his AI, but with all the Zelda 2 inspiration in the concept of Zelda 64, including even an elevator in the final Forest Temple, your guess is as good as any.

>>7333993
The final map looks like a fucked up John Lennon.

>>7333904
Honestly I just see the Japanese name of Zelda II's Stalfos to be a correction of the name of Stalfos from the first game - it comes from skeleton/"sukeruton" (スケルトン) and skull/"sukaru" (スカル) - but then the ALttP devs took them as two different enemies mere three games in and it's been Stalfos instead of Stalfon ever since. Several Zelda enemies like Gohma or Moldorm got re-spelled over the years so I wouldn't put it outside the sacred realm of possibility. Then again, it's hard to say for sure with Darknut/Ironknuckle thing, and several other Zelda II enemies like Ache/Acheman are derived from Zelda I enemies like Keese/Vire, so..

>>7334020
arent darknuts and ironknuckles supposed to be different things?

>>7334012
I sees it!

>>7334038
>>7334038
Yes, in the original NES lore, Darknuts from Zelda 1 (called Tart Knuckles) are knights loyal to Ganon, part of his army while Iron Knuckles from Zelda 2 are seemingly immortal/artificial knights loyal to the ancient King of Hyrule whose duty was to test any Hero who wanted to piece the crystal back in the depths of the 6 temples to claim the Triforce of Courage, led by Reboknack and Jermafencer.

>>7334038
They definitely are now, but with OoT's early Ironknuckles looking more like the original Darknuts I can't help but feel like Ironknuckle was originally just supposed to be Darknut renamed.

>>7334065
Tartnucs/Darknuts are the knights who follow Ganon while Ironknacks/Iron Knuckles are the ones who protected the Triforce of Courage.

>>7334051
Thats why I kind of felt like IK had to be different since the dungeons in Zelda 2 are tests to Link, not Ganon's lairs like Zelda 1's dungeons. Of course they screwed up this lore somewhat by just making iron knuckles gerudos in OoT

>>7334081
Maybe Iron Knuckles in the current "lore" are knights whose power and lifespan were augmented by magic.
The ones in Zelda 2 have been guarding the Temples/Palaces for a few centuries by then, while Nabooru didn't age after 7 years while Ganon has some signs of age (namely his hair got longer)

>>7334076
How come Bubble can stay?

I was taking a look at the Event Flag list from the source leak back in June's "Gigaleak" and compared to the story dialogue from this build, it seems the story and the event flag list are from this mid-1997 period.

However, at this point, "Mido's Seal" is still a thing. People have brought up in previous /v/ threads to not compare "Mido the sage" to what is the final "Mido the Kokiri", but if the Event Flag List and this build are 1:1 as they seem to be at face value, then it was decided that Mido should be the chief of the Kokiri Tribe pretty early on.

There was no Saria's Song (Naturally, the only songs were only the warp songs in this build) so according to this event flag, you'd need to talk to the "Deku Tree Jr." and then talk back to Mido with whatever message the Deku Tree Sprout asks you to pass onto him and then he'd move out of the way.

Maybe anons aren't retarded for once, maybe, just maybe, Mido the Kokiri was, indeed, at some point, the Shadow Sage as well.

https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/iQue/Early_Flag_List

>>7334081
Wait a minute!
...In the original game, Princess Zelda had the fragments of the Triforce of Wisdom hidden in the labyrinths, so it's already implied that the monsters in the underworld (sans Death Mountain) were guardians on the Royal Family's side (or at least a neutral party). If that weren't the case, Ganon would've already had the Triforce of Wisdom before Link even rescued Impa! So the "Ganon's/Hyrule's faction" theory is bunk. Clearly, certain members of the Royal Family got their hands dirty by practicing black magic, but this never really got explored save for it being very lightly touched upon by the Royal Family's Tomb of ReDeads in Ocarina of Time.

I'm convinced that the child link camera used to be slightly higher

>>7334162
Alternatively that the data for how the camera should move in this area isn't present in the leaked version. In the final game the camera pans a bit to let you get a clearer view as you're sneaking around which is in the bottom pic.

>>7334136
>There was no Saria's Song (Naturally, the only songs were only the warp songs in this build) so according to this event flag, you'd need to talk to the "Deku Tree Jr." and then talk back to Mido with whatever message the Deku Tree Sprout asks you to pass onto him and then he'd move out of the way.
The Deku Tree sprout tells Link the truth about him being a Hylian in the final, so if Link neededvto speak to Mido afterwards, this may support the "all Kokori were Hylian war-orphans" theory! But what about Kasuto?

>>7334162
doesn't the camera act a bit differently while you move?

>>7334220
We don't know what the Sprout tells Link in this build, only that it has a Yes/No answer and seems like the Yes answer would activate the flag to talk to Mido again so he moves the fuck out. Read the Flag List, senpai. Comparing this with the current story we have thanks to the overdump can give us insight to the story at this point.

>>7334087
Thats interesting, it could be beyond just their alignment to king or Ganon but the magic used to create them

>Mido might've had a subplot finding out he's one of the actual last Sheikahs instead of a Kokiri and becoming the Sage of Shadow.

>>7334363
>Mido Day Lewis stars in...The Last of the Sheikah

wasn't the beta maps uploaded to noclip.webiste?

>>7333201
>>7334403

>>7334363
>Rob Schneider thought he was another kokiri living his life in the forest until one day...
>record scratch

>>7334409
so odd, I don't see it there

>>7334424
looks like the link was fucked up
this one should work
https://noclip.website/#zelview_beta/01

>>7334431
That worked, thanks

>>7334136
So why ISN'T Mido a Sage? Every Sage is a high-ranking leader of their respective societies except Saria (and oldfag Rauru but you can argue he's the de facto head of the Sages). Wouldn't it make more sense for Mido to be the Sage of the Forest? I kinda feel Saria wasn't always in that role, then around this build mid-development they didn't know what the hell to do with Mido and said "screw it, he's just an asshole who never grew up, we don't need to do anything special for him."

>>7334363
Imagine. Everything he said to Link about not being a real Kokiri, and then he also turns out to not be one either.

>>7334448
I now imagine a fully grown sheikah man telling Link he's not a real kokiri like himself.

>>7333201
>>7334431
why is there a grave tucked away in a corner in the early Hyrule Field?

What if Saria was the one supposed to be the Shadow sage and Mido the Forest one?
Would explain why there is an old Mido model and everything forest related but no Saria model or anything shadow related.

>>7334494
Rip the runner. He runned to hard.

>>7334161
This has always been a plot hole, you could infer Ganon had secured the pieces but couldn't put it back together or couldn't be moved from their current location by some seal. There's no way Goriyas, Darknuts, Stalfos, Vires, etc. weren't working for Ganon, even the manual in Japan calls them Ganon's followers and "Evil Beasts" (majyu).

>>7334503
That'd make sense. Probably the shift of Saria being the sage came into play to give Link a friendship which would play into the early story since Mido (if we're going off of the final game's stuff) would be more of just an asshole to Link and not making sense as a sage. Or perhaps Link was meant to be good friends with him and he was a chill dude, but someone shifted him into being Saria since the dynamic between Link and Saria being childhood friends and possible boy/girlfriend material being more dynamic.

>>7333904
Also consider Phantom Ganon, being a doppelganger of Ganondorf, is the main boss of the Forest Temple. Dark Link being the mini-boss of the Forest Temple might've fit the theme and been better explained there.

>>7334363
Unironically would've been a great scenario and fleshed out his character.

>>7334443
"Saria's seal" is already present in the overdump, Mido's Seal comes after Ruto's Seal and before Nabooru's Seal, therefore fitting the Shadow slot. There's no Impa's Seal in the overdump.

>>7334503
>>7334516
See >>7334535
Sorry for the weird double post.

What is Zelda the sage of?

>>7334503
There's an old Saria model as well. It's has like 2 animations and a weird kokiri shirt with buttons on the back like a corsette or some shit.

>>7334535
Given the medallion and sapphire stuff, could be a placeholder as they were reworking the plot.

>>7334539
The sage of plot convenience

>>7334547
That's the problem, we don't know.
But Saria and Mido being Sages at the same time would fit with the Zelda theme 2. Only one missing is Kasuto.
Maybe Kasuto was the weird brown Sheik posted earlier before Sheik and Zelda merged into the same character idk.

>>7334535
In >>7327723 the forest medallion and arrow element is in between the water and spirit ones if that means anything.

>>7334539
She's the "leader", which is to say she represents the kingdom's racial majority (as Rauru is also Hylian).

Is it me or Zelda 64 in general was just a holy war story between the aryan Hylians and Nayru and the mors Gerudo and Din, with everyone else just caught in the middle of it.

>>7334576
>christian imagery in the old graveyard and in a lot of old Zelda stuff in general
>islamic imagery in the desert
hmmm

>>7334576
Din is a goddess, not a Gerudo. Also Ganondorf victimizes all the other races of Hyrule in some way (freezes zora's domain, unleashes Volvagia so the gorons are starving, curses the great deku tree, etc). Its more like Ganondorf vs everyone else

>>7334554
OoT was originally going to have more dungeons and thus more medallions but those were cut very early on when they realized how much work it would be. I doubt kazuto as a character ever really got off the ground. If kazuto was ever to be a sage he would probably replace zelda since she really has no reason to be one.

>>7334598
I know Din is a Goddess, I just meant because in the old story found in the ROM, Nayru spoke to Zelda directly in her dreams and states the Gerudo were more active as the night-time enemies and the Gerudos themselves alongside Ganon attacking Hyrule Castle.

>>7334598
You missed the leek deets my anon.

>>7334598
Test found call Desert Colossus "Evil Goddess Din" >>7329130

>>7334598
he also has a big nose and comes from a desert tribe

>>7333564
Hold the phone.

>>7334678
Landmine, scrapped item, replaced with bombchu

>>7334576
>Farore once again shows her courage of being a coward.

>>7334725
She's just getting high all day, crying from getting cucked her namesake didn't got her game.

>>7334693
Anon.

>>7334757
Oh man oh god.
We know it's a landmine because the item name and description are in the overdumo, but I don't doubt this is part of the Zelda 2 inspiration/reference.

>>7333208
oh relax
lore is fun

>>7333239
>the entire goal during Hyrule's future is to "awaken" NEW Sages sans Rauru
good point

>>7333731
>I guess someone in Nintendo liked Death Mountain better as a name?
maybe they just had really bad PTSD from death mountain in zelda 2 and now it dominates their mind

>>7334784
Death Moutain in the new leaked maps also had a cancerous maze like Zelda II

>>7334757
i wish more people would give 2 a chance
its an odd game, but ive always thought that ithad the most satisfying swordplay
you really need to learn how to deal with each enemy, THEN execute it well or you get RAEPd

>>7334786
and thats a good thing, heres why:

>>7334795
For what it's worth, I played through the Redux version, anon.

>>7334802
what changed in it?
ive never bothered
i tried doing a rando once but its not very well suited to it imo

I wonder if the older maps included in the leak will show if there rushed to be a temple of light at some point in development. From this build though it doesn't seem like it. In fact I'm getting vibes that we are closer to the final sequence of events it's just the dungeons and characters and situations are different.

>>7334795
Me too. It's not as bad a game as everyone makes it out to be, but at the same time I think that opinion goes hand-in-hand with learning how to take on opponents properly. I find you have to be very aggressive, or you'll almost always get your ass handed to you.

>>7334809
Here's the complete changelog as well as options to revert changes you don't like:
>https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5440/

But how I played was this set up:
>The base Redux updated graphics (basically some refinement to Link's sprite so he looks more like his artwork, while still looking like the original sprite)
>Hearts and Magic bar in the more classic Zelda set up as opposed to a Life Bar and Magic Bar
>Enemies don't steal EXP, like in the FDS version
>If you game over you start at the dungeon entrance, not all way back to North Palace
>Keeping EXP after a game over
>FDS Battle theme plays in East Hyrule while the NES Battle theme plays in West Hyrule
>Lives become a permanent upgrade to how many lives you start the game after the game over and not a 1-and-done thing.

>>7334831
Sounds like they made it a lot easier. Thats kind of lame.