/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7316350
there's a reason Wolfenstein 3D often gets credit for being the first FPS and not junk like Hovertank 3D and MIDI Maze

RE launched into being Capcom's most successful franchise ever by just doing Alone in the Dark better. Given a low-quality demonstration, they saw the potential and then actually realized it themselves, becoming the face of the genre. Incredibly good decision-making.

Combined with the runaway success of SFII the previous gen, this basically made Capcom into the giant it entered 6th gen as. God bless Alone in the Dark.

>>7316369
That doesn't really make sense. Those games were primitive. Alone the Dark wasn't. It's not like RE advanced the genre in some meaningful way. It was just more popular on consoles, wheras AitD was primarily a PC game.

>>7316350
The only people who don't know about Alone in the Dark and claim that RE created Survival Horror or delusional RE classicfags who are horrible people for a bunch of reasons and thus should be ignored anyways.

>>7316379
>Those games were primitive. Alone the Dark wasn't.
Dude you should play AitD someday, it's pretty interesting

>Alone in the Dark created the survival horror genre
that's wrong tho.

>>7316369
>there's a reason
not the same reason, tho

>>7316390
I have played AitD. It has a propensity for surprise fucking over the player, which was the style of the time. But the general design of the game holds up. It's not like RE1 has aged all that much more elegantly.

>>7316350
>uh oh previous thing happened first, everything else is invalid, i only like previous thing because it was previous
You are a retarded hipster zoomer, don't come back in ten years and only if you ever get out of your stupid hipster phase

>>7316379
>It's not like RE advanced the genre in some meaningful way
RE made several advancements that made the genre what it is. The limited inventory, limited and sparse save points, and focus on resource management are what makes survival horror survival horror.
Alone in the Dark while a very impressive game for its time and an obvious influence on Resident Evil had unlimited inventory space and saving at any time. There's no real survival aspect to the gameplay.

Also it needs to be said, the Alone in the Dark franchise was fucking nosedived straight into the ground after the first game. The second game is ridiculous having you fight fucking ghost pirates while Disney theme park music plays. Jack in the Dark has fucking Santa Claus as a character. Alone in the Dark 3 is an hour and a half of using dynamite to blow up cowboys. So not only did they never have a survival aspect, the sequels can't even be called horror.

>>7316369
aitd shits on wolf 3d

>>7316513
How so? Wolfenstein was considered FUN at the time it came out. AitD wasn't, it was like a demonstration sold as a product.

>>7316475
>the Alone in the Dark franchise was fucking nosedived straight into the ground after the first game
I hate how much this is true, AITD2's intro was fucking atrocious and basically took the action-RE route before action-RE was even a thing. Granted New Nightmare was decent, but it wasn't enough to stand out in the more crowded survival horror genre if the lack of discussion is anything to go by.

>>7316350
Sweet Home, a Capcom game, beat AitD by 3 years.

>>7316548
To be fair Resident Evil 2 is also definitely a run n' gun action game, it is impossible to run out of ammo outside the Arrange modes, the survival and puzzle solving aspects are barely if at all present, but they quadrupled down on the horror aspect to make up for it with more realistic visuals and environments and much more terrifying enemies.

>>7316350
>people allowed Resident Evil to rip it off
What do you think they'd do? Physically stop the developers from taking static pre-rendered camera angles?

Your point being? RE is good, AitD isn't.

>>7316475
They were mostly responding to trends in the market and complaints that there wasn't much action in AitD1. Reviews at the time actually liked this change in comparison to the first. It's more so upon retrospect people see the first as more masterfully crafted. Which is ironically something that happened with Resident Evil a few years later. Where RE2 was seen as a logical improvement at the time but upon retrospect people prefer the less linear original.

>>7316350
Yes Resident Evil was a rip-off but no one cares. But everyone has forgotten why people played Resident Evil in the first place:
Because it was hilariously tacky and campy. It was like playing a cheap campy horror movie. My classmates used to imitate the terrible voice acting. That was what set it apart from more serious horror games like Alone in the Dark.

>>7316369
>>7316475
>aitd
>unlimited inventory
>no focus on inventory management
Are you retarded? Also RE could get away with limited saves because it has no real fail state. Whats survival about that?

>>7316540
RE wasnt fun. It lacked the puzzles and environmental storytelling of AitD. Its literally dumber than AitD 2. Cope.

People forgot to give credit to the 1987 game War of the Dead too. This game gave tons of influence on Resident evil, and its the first japanese survival horror ever made. RE has way more in common with AitD and War of the Dead than Sweet Home.

>>7316623
Yes, this IS THE REAL FIRST HORROR GAME EVER MADE!

>>7317178
Japan > west
seethe, cope, dilate, the usual

>>7316350
Overrated meme game hyped up by pseuds.

>>7317178
>RE wasnt fun. It lacked the puzzles and environmental storytelling of AitD
Hipster zoomer, just man up to the fact that you just learned about Alone in the dark from some memetuber 5 minutes ago and no are full hipster mode posing .

What matters is that Resident Evil is actually fun.

Kind of like how Pac-Land was the first (or at least one of the earliest) platformer. Yet Super Mario Bros is much better remembered. Because SMB improved the formula massively.

>>7317201
Technically, some japs made an alien inspired horror game for the commodore PET in 1981, so no. The first true survival horror game I would say, something with all the horror, puzzle solving, exploration, combat, and resource management aspects intact, is Maxwell Manor for the Atari 8 bit.

>>7317234
Mountain King came before pacland, had multidirectional scrolling, and was fun to play. And, what did SMB substantially improve from pac land again?

>>7316426
RE1 is remarkably balanced and fair. Despite being a horror game it never relies on any cheap tricks and any instakills it does have are heavily telegraphed.

>>7317228
I first played in when I was 11 or 12. I downloaded it with a dial up modem, failing to download multiple times because 12 megabytes was too big for my 28 kbps modem. It was a blast desu trying to figure out where to go and what to do with the game items because I was too retarded to understand the clues found in the in-game books.

>>7317275
>Despite being a horror game it never relies on any cheap tricks

>>7317178
>Its literally dumber than AitD 2. Cope.
I dont think you can really be dumber than AITD2 and having Ed Carnby dressed up as Santa and being offered eggs by the cook.

>>7317257
>>7316350
Bongs are desperate

>>7317178
You're being too contrarian even for 4chan.

>>7317263
>and was fun to play
No it wasn't.

>>7317367
Nah, that was pretty brilliant. RE had simpler and fewer puzzles than AitD 2. Also you don't need to read books to solve puzzles. People hate AitD 2 because it's not a mindless shoot and loot game, most of the encounters could be avoided or solved strategically. It's a game that requires patience and critical thinking even more than the first game in the series.

>>7318116
try reddit bro

>>7318123
contrarian

>>7316350
Yeah just one problem
It wasn't any good

>>7316350
Retsuprae's vids of this series back in the day makes it so I can never take these games seriously.

>>7316436
Imagine being a wojack poster and thinking you are superior to anyone

>>7316350
>Alone in the Dark created the survival horror genre
Sweet Home was released 2 years prior and is the game RE started out as a 3D remake of.

>>7318538
OP is retarded, but RE is virtually nothing like Sweet Home either despite being the project that replaced the cancelled 3D Sweet Home game. Neither is Sweet Home the first true survival horror game, Maxwell Manor preceded it.

AitD might not be the first survival horror, but it started the whole tank control, 2D background, selectable character survival horror model. It invented the modern survival horror.

lmao we got the fucking Piero Scaruffi of video games in this thread.

>>7316604
>but upon retrospect people prefer the less linear original.
Are you fucking having a laugh mate? RE2 is still the most popular game in the "classic" trilogy BY FAR.

>>7316378
>better
lol no

>>7316350
>Alone in the Dark created the survival horror genre
No

>>7316350
>Alone in the Dark created the survival horror genre

Technically, Resident Evil created the genre.

Before Resident Evil, such games like Alone In The Dark fell under the "action-adventure" genre, as in, AitD and its clone didn't have their own sub-sub-genre, they belonged to a much more broad sub-genre.

Resident Evil came up with the term "Survival Horror", it's in the text of the loading screen when you load a save. Journos picked it up, probably helped by Capcom's marketing, and that became a genre.
It also became a genre because the game was incredibly successful, influencial, and spawned many clones. AitD had a few clones, but not enough to warrant a new genre name.

However, it is true that AitD was the first game with the kind of mechanics that RE1's branch of survival horror is known for.
To my knowledge, AitD is the first video game ever to use 3D models within 2D pre-rendered backgrounds, especially with this type of camera angles. of course before AitD there were games with fixed cameras, but they were 2D games, and the type of camera angle wasn't the same at all.

>>7319584
Outside of technicalities on when the genre became a genre, one can debate which was the first game that could be categorized that way.

However, since the boundaries of sub-genres are prone to opinion, that is also prone to opinion.
Personally I like to think there has to be enough survival gameplay mechanics, and that those survival mechanics are a center piece of the game's gameplay. This is why House Of The Dead isn't a survival horror, because there is basically no survival gameplay mechanics.

Under that idea, I personally wouldn't call games like Hugo's House of Horror survival horror either, and the first game that I've found in my studies centered on survival gameplay mechanics, and with plenty of different survival mechanics, AND with a horror theme, is Zombi which was released on Amstra CPC in 1986 (re-released in other platforms on colour later on).

Basically, anything older just doesn't have enough survival mechanics to warrant the title, simply because the mechanics are too simple; and again, if you include those games as "survival horror" you might as well include House Of The Dead because they have just about as much survival mechanics. So, I think it's a fair line.

>>7319584
The problem is that is extremely difficult to distinguish an Alone in the Dark clone from a Resident Evil clone. Because RE is a straight up AitD clone. It's like how you can trace slightly different lineage between Duke 3D clones and Doom clones, but they're really largely the same thing.

For example, games like Blair Witch Volume I: Rustin Parr by Terminal Reality are often seen as RE clones. But why should they be? Alone in the Dark sold millions of copies and was super well known. Attributing Silent Hill to Resident Evil's immediate lineage is another example of that myopia. Because people have this idea that RE invented survival horror, therefore all horror games that resemble it in any way must be inspired by it.

It's kinda like how a huge number of FPS games are inspired by Terminator: Future Shock, but Quake gets all the credit. Fallout 4 doesn't play like Quake. It plays like Terminator: Future Shock. There is this pervasive issue of inaccurate canon in gaming history. Console gamers tend to think all gaming history consists of Japanese console games. You see this with "Metal Gear Solid invented movie games" or "Metal Gear Solid was a hugely influential stealth game". When in reality most stealth games outside Japan took their influence from Thief primarily.

it wasn't that bad

>Alone in the Dark / Resident Evil: Frédérick Raynal thanks Mikami for his belated admission. That of the obvious, but still denied by Capcom, link between his Alone in the Dark and the Resident Evil by Shinji Mikami, and the fact that at last the latter recognized an influence which he could not speak of because of arrangements between Infogrames and Capcom.

>"At the time, I was no longer with Infogrames when there were all these stories. But I was told that Infogrames was not happy and that afterwards there was no problem. I was not aware of it, but yes, there had to have been a deal. I admit that it really hurt me. I've never, especially at the time, seeked recognition. But receiving the opposite was hard. When the team and the creator of the game said, "No, I've never seen Alone in the Dark", it was such a dishonest lie. It hurt me for a long time. And there, a few months ago, when he finally said that of course Alone in the Dark had been the essential inspiration, otherwise it would have been a First Person Shooter ... Well then I can't wait to meet Mikami for thank him for that. Because it's a real relief. I believe that it must have weighed on him too, and that suddenly, being no longer under contract, he needed to say it. Thank you Shinji Mikami, I hope we will see each other soon. Being open about it, it made me extremely happy."

imagine having to wait more than 20 years just to hear that, not even about the money, just simply wanting to hear that you were the original creator of a massively popular genre and main influence of one of the most popular game series, simply hearing some nice words of respect and recognition from your japanese peer, but being denied all these years because of some shady backroom deal between corporate overlords

>>7319776
everyone knows it came first but his game was shit so no one cares. People give recognition to good shit that holds up, being the first only gets you brownie points unless your product was botht he first and among the best the thing you pioneered in. Pretty much every single survival horror game that came after was miles ahead and better than alone in the dark so yeah.

>>7316350
Just another poster coming through to say Sweet Home and suck my cock.

>>7319786
>Pretty much every single survival horror game that came after was miles ahead and better than alone in the dark so yeah.

I've played 95% of every "AitD/RE" style survival horror.

The vast majority of them range from bad to "okay at best". The RE/SH series, Dino Crisis, and the first AitD are among the bests. None of the pre-RE AitD clones surpass it, not even its own sequels.
Even the "bests" ones like Overblood and AitD4 have their share of flaws.

>>7319849
ok hipster

>>7319776
I've always wondered if maybe Mikami had played Doctor Hauzer first. I don't think AitD was famous at all in Japan, though of course game devs are likely keep in touch with what's being made in the world even if unreleased in their countries, especially when they're technical advancements like AitD

>>7319776
Wow, it was such on obvious clone they had to pay them to shut up lol

>>7319727
fps were more inspired by quake than terminator future shock. don't be revisionist.

>>7316350
Survival Horror predates AitD.

>>7316350
>Alone in the Dark created the survival horror genre
No it didn't. Alone in the Dark was by all accounts was a puzzle game with horror elements that relied mainly on trial and error. The core tennent of survival horror isn't just fixed camera angles, it's item management, save management, surviving the horror. And not RE4 item management, where it's just weapons and health items, the item management must include every item you carry.
Alone in the Dark doesn't have this, because it wasn't trying to be what would be known as survival horror. It was trying to be a puzzle game.
The only thing RE took from AitD was the idea of using camera angles to evoke a sense of lurking horror and dread, as it was also a good way to skirt the limitations of a console and use highly detailed (for the time) pre-rendered backgrounds to evoke a feel of realism.
Resident Evil's core inspiration, which has far more ties to it and has always been cited as an inspiration, was a game one of the producers directed, Sweet Home.

>>7317178
>Also RE could get away with limited saves because it has no real fail state.
What does that statement even mean.
>RE wasnt fun. It lacked the puzzles and environmental storytelling of AitD. Its literally dumber than AitD 2. Cope.
RE is littered with environmental storytelling though. Have you played these games?

>>7321168
By your logic Silent Hill isn't a survival horror either

Your logic is flawed

>>7316369
What about Catacomb 3D?

>>7321180
Silent Hill isn't survival horror and anyone who thinks it is is a moron. Not even going into how people involved flat out called it psychological horror, the game itself has no survival elements. The ammo is far from limited, even on the harder difficulties you can stunlock half the enemies with the melee weapons and have hundreds of bullets for all of your guns, in addition to three different kinds of health items in the first game, all of which give you significant health boosts compared to RE's far fewer herbs and the F. Aid Sprays, which later games punished you for using.

>>7316350
>Alone in the Dark created the survival horror genre,

There's no such thing that's just some stupid American term. The proper term is horror adventure game.

Alone in the Dark is an Adventure game (ADV) and one of the first to make it 3D. Resident Evil is another adventure game but with a bigger budget and more polish. Both are evolution of 2D point and click adventure games. The focus is on exploration, puzzles, and problem solving, rather than direct combat like an action game. As games went on they had less adventure elements and more action.

Why do spammers obsess over RE.
>Beccafag
>Aresident Evil weirdo
>RE4 thread spammer
>now this AitD guy that's been in the last few threads
Can you faggots actually play the games you talk about for once

>>7316631
>Yes Resident Evil was a rip-off but no one cares. But everyone has forgotten why people played Resident Evil in the first place:

It started as a 3D version of Sweet Home but without the license using the power of the PlayStation. Then Mikami found Alone in the Dark, he never says which version, but it might have been the 3DO version. Which would be funny if true because that shitty console ended up inadvertently creating a whole successful series. Using the techniques and design of Alone in the dark, they changed the project and the rest is history.

>>7318643
>>7318538

there's still some sweet home DNA in the game at the end, with a cast of people in a creepy mansion who have particular skillsets to help them get through. That's why Jill and Rebecca can play the paino but Chris can't. Why Jill has a lockpick but Chris doesn't. It's way more Alone in the dark, but like 5% of RE is still sweet home.

>>7319810
Sweet Home is a jarpig.

>>7316350
>Japs steal shit, dumb it down to the lowest denominator and cumbrain weebs give them credit
Wow, I'm so surprised.

>>7319767
I honestly loved it despite the jank. Its a damn shame they didn't do anything with the series after that, even the cancelled remake of 1 would've been nice if they cut the QTEs or made them more subtle.

>>7320270
Future Shock is the reason Duke 3d has mouse free aiming. It basically invented the idea of FPS games where you actually aim at things. It was immensely influentual. Thanks Todd.

>>7320270
Future shock gave influence to tactical fps games. The Delta Force series was undoubtedly inspired by future shock. It also invented the grenade button and default mouselook in fps.

>>7319882
Dr Hauzer was released when RE was already in development though. Also I dont think it had any combat.

>>7321757
>>7321702
lmao

>>7321215
What if I told you some games fall into multiple genres

>>7321184
I personally like it, but its weak compared to Wolf3D which is weak compared to Doom. It didnt set the world on fire like the later two games.

>>7318643
Nobody cares about your horrible atari game

>>7319786
/thread

>>7322003
You cared enough to reply fanbuddy.

>>7322003
but it came first that means every other game that came after is invalid, a rip off and for retards, infalible hipster logic.

>>7321702
>Future Shock is the reason Duke 3d has mouse free aiming.
Heretic had mouse aiming and came out a year earlier. The only reason Doom didn't have it is because Carmack thought the perspective distortion looked like shit.

>>7321203
>RE4 thread spammer
I can explain this one, pretty sure it's the same guy who makes the "HL2 ruined FPS games" threads and the "Doom 3 is the best Doom" threads. i.e. ALF.

As for why, HL2 mogged Doom 3 as a tech demo and RE4 mogged it as a horror game.

Alone in the Dark was a pretty amazing accomplishment for its time in 1992 whereas Resident Evil would come out 4 years later. The team that made the first AitD went on to make Little Big Adventure in 1994 - another product ahead of its time. That's the price of being a pioneer in tech; you will be overshadowed by someone who makes it mainstream.

Resident Evil, a dated experience by 1996, has the advantage of Sony's marketing and likely being a new experience for first time gamers.

>>7323783
>HL2 mogged Doom 3
Both are shit linear games with god awful gunplay.

>>7323795
>Resident Evil, a dated experience by 1996
Based.

>>7321702
Marathon had mouse aiming the year before.

>>7316350
Clock tower was first though. Maybe night trap or friday the 13th

>>7324145

>>7316436

>posting wojak
>thinking zoomers know wtf Alone in the Dark is
Fuck off retard

aitd isn't a horror game, its a comedy

>>7316631
>Because it was hilariously tacky and campy
This is a meme and its not fucking true. I'm so fucking sick of seeing this retarded "opinion"

>>7324197
The poster didn't say anything wrong. Just because Capcom wanted it to be taken seriously mean it was.

>>7324197
This.

RE when it came out it was unsettling despite the voice acting. The atmosphere was unmatched at the time.
It became the LOL CAMPY MEME afterwards when the models had noticeably aged.

>>7324235
>It became the LOL CAMPY MEME afterwards
I'm an oldfag I was thirteen when the game came out and me and my friends definitely liked it and played it because of the campiness. Of course this is just anecdotal so maybe others took it more seriously.

>>7323806
>>7323795
shit taste

>>7324235
It was campy when it came out.

>>7324197
It was still scary for the time, but you gotta admit the intro was still fairly cheesy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWo0Hhx07Pc

>>7323798
That doesn't change the fact that HL2 was still better.

>for its time
were people in the mid 90s very anxious

>>7324504

We just stopped having "duck and cover" drills I'm the event of a nuclear blast in school by the 90s.

>>7316369
>first FPS
>wolf 3d
You spelled 007 Goldeneye for the Nintendo 64 wrong bruh

Yeet yeet and a bowl of wat

Just want to say as someone too pussy to actually play any of these games despite being interested, I appreciate hearing and learning about horror games other than RE, AiTD and Sweet Home. Thanks, horrorfags.

>>7326157
Try playing the HL1 mod, Cry of Fear bro.

I thought AitD2 was considered the best of trilogy lol.

>>7326236
Naw it's okay dawg, I haven't played either of those games anyway, I'll just go back to Castlevania, thanks.

>>7316350
Lol, fuck off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5JqOc-8zBU

>>7321339
>mad as fuck because nobody cares about your wretched, dead westcuck franchises
S-Stop it Japan, p-please!

>>7319776
Imagine being this eurocuck.
>Oh Mikami sama! I have waited 20 long years for your admission that my shitty, forgotten game slightly influence the massive RE franchise! What am I working on now? We'll giving handjobs in Turkish bath houses is a far cry from game development, but I did brush up against John Travolta's penis once.
Sasuga
Miyamoto's DKC interview was real as well.

>>7326402
>a top-down 2D JRPG
>remotely related to Alone in the Dark

>>7326157
Are there any AitD-likes that do not have a horror theme but just play like that mechanically

>>7326402
Resident Evil has basically nothing in common with Sweet Home. Look, we all know what happened. There was an out of court deal between the publisher of AitD and Capcom where both companies had to pretend to ignore the obvious similarities between the two games. Shinji Mikami in particular was told to lie and claim to be unfamiliar with AitD, and for some reason RE fans believed him.

Too bad it plays like trash while RE is at least playable.

>>7316350
>because console audiences didn't know any better
RE wasn't a bad game by any means, but it really is sad that people credit RE for the creation of the genre. For God's sake, AitD was a completed trilogy two years before RE.

>>7316581
SEGA did that with switching cameras in arcade racers. Not that it helped them in any way.
>>7316475
>So not only did they never have a survival aspect, the sequels can't even be called horror.
Yep, i think Time Commando is more close to that.

>>7319727
>huge number of FPS games are inspired by Terminator: Future Shock
Name two. It pioneered some things like vehicle levels but i don't think that there are any devs that can say "Yep, T:FS inspired us to make X".

>>7319727
>Fallout 4 doesn't play like Quake. It plays like Terminator: Future Shock.
Of course, it was made by the same fucking company. F4 even shares some of engine lineage IIRC because T:FS was made using the one found in Daggerfall.

>>7328143
Terminator Resistance is a homage to Future Shock. I don't think it's as obscure as you think it was.

>>7326402
So, uh, JRPG. Survival horror genre isn't solely about creepy setting.