/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7302451
It's worth playing once if you never played it for the experience. Some parts can get rather tedious, like the L9 dungeon and all the fucking blue wizrobe rooms, and the fact that if you die in the dungeon you pretty much need to go out and farm health or visit a fairy and then buy a new red potion since you'll never finish the dungeon with 3 hearts.

Kinda thread related, I just tried playing Zelda II for the NES for the first time today and holy shit I hate absolutely everything about it. I just dropped it in the first dungeon, couldn't even get myself to finish the dungeon. Should I give it another chance or just skip it?

>>7302451
Absolutely. It's an almost perfect open world adventure.

>>7302618
>almost perfect open world adventure
Even though most secrets are burn random tree in a forest or bomb a random rock?

>>7302451
I thought it was fun playing it while following a guide. Only part that made me really seethe was Level 7.

>>7302623
Yes

>>7302451
For replay value, I'd probably make the secret caves a little more obvious and then randomize them across the map. This way exploration is mandated for every playthrough but things are less tedious than fully randomized cave locations would be.

And yes, it's absolutely worth playing at least once.

Why don't you just fucking play it instead of making shit threads like this. It's a popular children's console game from 35 years ago, it doesn't require deep thought to get started. Zelda is a very accessible game and I would recommend it to anyone besides actual idiots who can't visualize the map and says things like "it doesn't tell you where to go". In that case don't play it.

>>7302451
It's the oldest game in my top 30.
Not even nostalgia. I played it for the first time two years ago.
I genuinely think it's better than OoT and BotW.

>>7302543
You're a faggot.

It's better with savestates and a guide.

>>7302807
What makes you like it more than those games?

>>7302841
Some mixture of contrarianism and hipsterdom

>>7302451
It's worth playing, sure. It's pretty straight forward and only falls into the "where do I go?" category a few times.

>>7302837
Sad truth. The game gives many hints, but for example finding L9 without a guide is pretty much impossible.

>>7302623
thats... kind of the idea dude.
why do you think they were called SECRETS?

>>7302870
If most people don't find them without guides or word of mouth then it's not a satisfying open world exploration experience.
I even heard about them before I played the game and went around bombing and burning stuff that felt out of place but found nothing, because the devs decided to hide shit in the 15th tile of a perfectly straight wall that spans the entire screen horizontally.

>>7302543
You're not a faggot like the other guy posted. Zelda 2 is a shit game just like Final Fantasy 2 and Castlevania 2. Only contrarians think they're good

>>7302623
God zoom dammit

>>7302543
Give Zelda 2 another chance, it opens up once you get used to it. I could see it being difficult to someone not used to sidescrollers. You have to keep in mind that there were only two Zelda games for like 4 years before Lttp was released so all Zelda fans played Zelda 2 back in the day.

>>7302837
>>7302862
Zoom zoom

>>7302883
ur a faggot

>>7302881
>I expect everything to be handed to me on a silver platter
6th gen zoomies are the worst.

It's still a perfectly good game and isn't as archaic as zoomers keep saying. Everything required is told to you and you get a good feel for when a bush or a rock is suspicious enough to be hiding a secret pretty quickly. If you play it with a guide you're getting half the game it really is. You won't get EVERYTHING but you'll find enough hearts and you can beat the game just fine. You'll probably need to make a map for the final dungeon though.

it's a fun game that zoomers try to hold on a pedestal as a landmark of "open world" gaming in order to justify the travesty that was breath of the wild. wouldn't change a thing about it.

>>7302638
>following a guide

>>7302841
Action starts immediately.
No handholdy tutorials.
Freedom to go anywhere without being locked out of places (no guard blocking death mountain, no great plateau).
General appreciation - I've checked out hundreds of games released before Zelda (Arcade, consoles, some home computers like the Atari 800) - but it has more depth than all of them. The closest to it released in the west are probably Gateway to Apshai, Tower of Druaga, and Maxwell Manor. But these games don't have the polish or scale of Zelda.
Zelda 1's formula just works. Combat / Upgrades / Exploration.
There's no map, no objective markers, and no interruptions. Just freedom.
>>7302857
Explain how I am being "contrarian" by liking a game that has been regularly listed as one of the greatest games of all time?

Personally, I couldn't stand it all the way to the end.

>>7302889
>>7302892
Cope harder. This game is a product of its time, and using modern conveniences will easily enhance the experience. If this game were to be released nowadays, its game design would be rightfully considered bad.

>>7302451
No, and it was never worth playing to begin with. Play Shamus, it's an older and better game.

>>7302907
Isn't it more like having something being handed to you on a silver platter if realistically the only way to figure it out is just to have someone tell you what to do and that's it? I usually like secrets when you get a small clue that there's something in the area but it's like a puzzle that you have figure out.

>>7303012
Back to >>>/v/ 6th genner
>>7303069
No, its a secret in the sense you dont know its there. You either accidentally stumble upon it, read about it somewhere, or have a buddy tell you. All the more satisfying other than "oh, a cracked wall. There's a ""secret"" there. Better come back when I have bombs."

>>7302451
Yes, but you should beat at least 1 if not 2 Zeldas beforehand. That, and reading the manual, should give you the requisite experience to play it blind

>>7302892
Sad that you got defeated and are resorting to this?

>>7302451
>Is Zelda for the NES genuinely worth playing these days?
Yes
>What changes would you all make to it to give it more replay value?
Make a youtube that tells zoomies you aren't le ebik hard core retro gamer unless you replay it 10 times

>>7303297
No, just sad to see zoom zooms get filtered by a game I beat when I was 8.

I wish I still had this old usenet or newsgroup post from 1987-89 talking about how overrated, already outdated by the get-go, and shitty Zelda 1 is.

>>7302985
Freedom to go anywhere without being locked out of places (no guard blocking death mountain, no great plateau).
I know what you mean but Zelda 1 literally has a guard blocking death mountain.

>>7302451
It's the best Zelda, so yes.

>>7302932
I beat it recently and needed a guide near the end. I doubt you beat it solo.

>>7302451
Zoomer here. IMO yes desu. Zelda 2 is worth it too.

>>7303541
>Zelda 2 is worth it too.

>>7302451
No. There are less shallow games you could play instead.

>>7302451
Why do people never criticize this as a “game you absolutely need a guide to beat”?

>>7302763
>randomize
https://sites.google.com/site/zeldarandomizer/

>>7302883
seconding youre a faggot

>>7302543
Zelda II is great fun, but if and only if you're in the right mindset. Be prepared to walk over each and every single tile in the entire game, because you will need to do this in order to progress. It can be tedious but is satisfying as all hell when you walk over just the right tile and find what you need to progress.

>>7303738
People do, all the time. Ironically it's one of the easiest ones, and you should easily beat it blind if you've beaten any of the other Zelda games.

>>7302985
>Zelda 1, no map
What do you call this??????

>>7302985
>There's no map

>>7302862
The game tells you about Level 9's location:
>SPECTACLE ROCK IS AN ENTRANCE TO DEATH
The game comes with a manual and a map, it's just s matter if seeing wheres spectacle rock and putting 2 and 2 together.

>>7303773
>>7303827
>map
it's not even complete, though

>>7303861
You're supposed to explore those areas and draw the spots. Spectacle Rock is obvious since it's name comes from looking like a pair if glasses a bird's eye (i.e. the player's perspective point)

>>7302451
The gameplay has the same prickly, sharp feeling as the first megaman games. Like the opposite of a good arcade game, everything feels "stuck" somehow. If NES games had kept the level of complexity of atari 2600 games but just improved the graphics, that would have been better imo. They were clearly already thinking ahead to the 16bit era with these huge overworlds and games that have plots and characters and stuff like that.

>>7303893
p.s. an example of a perfect game on the NES is the original SMB itself. the game visually explains itself perfectly, the movement is crisp and even when it fucks you up you don't get reminded of the fact you're holding a controller. it feels like you fucked up "in the game" so to speak. but games like LoZ feel like real-time minesweeper, just stressful and unwieldy. at least it's not a real RPG or something like that.

>>7303893
>>7303906
You should try playing atari 400/800 games.

>>7302623
yes but at this point we all know which bush or rock that is
and 30 years ago it was more fun to find out from some random kid at school you never thought you'd have anything in common with, than to read about it on the Internet from people you'll never meet

>>7303773
>SCANLINES
fake, didn't happen

>>7303174
>All the more satisfying other than "oh, a cracked wall. There's a ""secret"" there. Better come back when I have bombs."
Yeah I never found those really basic "secrets" satisfying, it's just a door that opens in a different but obvious way.

I liked the secrets in pic related though. You had to look around for a hidden path or door and then there was still a puzzle or some tight platforming or something after that. Feels satisfying to know you found a secret area and enjoyable when you still have more to do after finding it.

>>7302985
>General appreciation - I've checked out hundreds of games released before Zelda (Arcade, consoles, some home computers like the Atari 800) - but it has more depth than all of them. The closest to it released in the west are probably Gateway to Apshai, Tower of Druaga, and Maxwell Manor. But these games don't have the polish or scale of Zelda.
Have you tried Heart of Africa? And add Autoduel, Ys, Sorcierian, Times of Lore to that.

>>7302862
What the fuck does "Spectactle rock is an entrance to death" mean to you? And you're telling me spectacle rock doesn't look weird enough to warrant bombing? Come on man.

>>7302451
Hell yeah it is. The guy who mentioned randomizing the caves may be on to something in terms of improving replay, but the second quest is already there. It doesn't need improvement.

>>7302932
>guide bad
yeah, it's not like nintendo themselves came out with one or anything.

>>7303959
fuck off retard

>>7302623
>thinks secrets should be served to them
yep, that's an OoT kiddie

>>7303773
This. Zoomies don't know how to RTFM

>>7302451
Yes, herro. Zelda 1 BAD GAME. Do not play it. It has hardest monsters in universe, octoroks. They kill you and you game over and it's the only thing in the game. You should play superior Zelda game Wind Waker, it is the best Zelda game of all time.

>>7304301
>can't make a guide
>just translate one of the unofficial ones on the market in Japan
80s Nintendo was a wild west of gaming

>>7302451
Yeah, I'd say it holds up amazingly well considering it's age. Best Zelda NES for sure (though that's not very hard to do.) You'll feel zero whiplash going from almost any other Zelda 2D game into it and vice versa.

>>7302543
Don't play Zelda 2 if you want a Zelda game cause it basically has nothing gameplay wise of actual Zelda in there and is instead just an okay ARPG. It has more in common with something like Castlevania than it does Zelda, so if that doesn't sound like something you're interested in skip it. However if that sounds awesome to you then go for it and you'll have a good time. YOu just have to adjust your mindset that you're not ACTUALLY playing a Zelda game
Anyone saying anything otherwise is full of shit and should be ignored.

>>7302451
Spin attack. NPCs. Maybe a couple more hints here and there. That's it, really. It's almost perfect as it is.

>>7304291
Level 9 is the Death Labyrinth, just how Level 1 is the Eagle Labyrinth.
Spectacle Rock DOES look suspicious on it's own to try bombing tho.

>>7303773
Zoomies don't even know what a book is, let alone a video game manual. They probably think you're supposed to play the first metroid without drawing a map too lmao

>>7304773
>Don't play Zelda 2 if you want a Zelda game cause it basically has nothing gameplay wise of actual Zelda in there
Well memed, my friend.

>>7304872
t.someone full of shit

>>7304773
That and it has the best music

>>7302623
Why 90% of mongoloids in this tread don't answer it actually.
They are not random, the game manual had tips and hints and directions and was actually supposed to be vital part of gameplay. But obviously nowadays when game was rererereleased without manual in any form and people played it more like that than in "proper" way, everybody's spittings bs about "random" secrets.

>>7302807
What is your top 30?

>>7303773
13.5% of the squares are blank
argument invalidated

>>7303773
This, but it's pretty shitty that the virtual console games like on the 3DS got a barebones manual that just list the controls. I bet most people don't even know about it, even I only found it accidentally when I googled the manual and found that soulful and actually useful manual.

>>7302543
There's romhacks that overhaul the EXP and shit. One of them lets you respawn in the room you game over'd in, but I feel like that's cheap.

>>7307019
Zoomies keep whining about the game being "impossible without a guide" therefore "it hasn't aged well and is badly designed" and completely ignore that the manual which came with the original cart has MORE than enough information to beat the game. Item descriptions, about half of the map drawn out in detail, and an entire walkthrough for the first three dungeons. Everything else can be figured out by the ingame npcs and fucking around on your own.

>>7307512
Retroarch for mommys iphone doesn't come with game manuals silly

>>7307512
>>7307565
The problem is that Virtual Console games have a built in manual (at least on the 3DS), but instead of scanning the nice old manuals it's some soulless minimalist shit that lists the controls, as I wrote. This is worse than not having a manual, since that would prompt you to google for one, but this way most people don't even realize how much help they are missing out on.

With Super2xSai filter it holds up well today. It would be better if you could only do the dungeons in one order, because it would allow them to present a more coherent narrative.

>>7307575
>using the google find a manual
>this kills the zoomer

>>7307760
Do you always just read half a post before replying?

>>7302451
Beat a boss, take a shot.
Die, take a shot.

Good luck, anon.

>>7307793
No. Only tldr shitposts. Read all of yours. Do you always seethe if you don't understand a reply?

>>7307575
You're exactly right, although people should automatically be searching for the pdf since the original boxart mentions the free guide as an important part of the game right on the front cover.

>>7307575
What's the situation on the Switch Online version?

>>7308171
It gives no manual or instructions at all, just a brief summary of the plot. It shows a thumbnail of the boxart though which mentions the "invaluable maps and tips".

>>7308416
>no manual or instructions at all
damn, zoomers are hardcore

Add more overworld music. The overworld theme gets really fucking old after hearing it the whole game.

>>7302451
The slow scrolling screen transitions are too annoying. I assume they could be patched out.

>>7302985
>Person blinded by nostalgia lists all of the reasons he's obviously blinded by nostalgia
I like it too anon, but basically none of what you said is true lol

>>7308593
everything of it is true lol

It's held up well.
Really, the only thing you need to know is that there's something on every overworld screen of the game.
If you know that, you'll be fine.
Also as >>7302543 mentioned before the bidaily Zelda 2 argument was started, Level 9 kinda blows and you should just come up with a save state strategy that doesn't take all the work out of it.
> t. 36 year old manchild, I was playing games while you were still an itch in your father's pants, don't zoom zoom me.

>>7308593
Stuff before 6th gen is also retro zoomie

>>7307512
Did you really know what a peninsula was when you were a kid?

>>7310898
You don't have to make things up about old games to say they're good

>>7310917
Yes I actually looked at a lot of maps as a kid no joke.

Personally I think Zelda is only good from SNES to Gamecube/GBA. Anything before SNES or after Gamecube/GBA is bad.

>>7311183
Anything after NES Zelda is bad.