/vr/ - Retro Games

>>726571
A: No
B: Grammar
C: Rayman 2 has aged better than any other early 3D game

/thread

excluding Nintendo 1st party yeah

The N64 was never good. It had a very few extremely good first party games and that was it. I'm amazed at how much love it gets. Probably from people who only ever subscribed to Nintendo Power.

>>726571

I don't see where 64 games aged poorly?

>>726596

Dat shitpost.

64 was good
> Good pad with a joystick
> Best Mario of the serie
> Few games but god tier games

The 64 had no luck, it hadn't got the back of third party developpers, because of the fuckin' cartridge limitation and due to the ps1 revolution, but it was a good console

>>726571
Until Pokemon Snap gets properly emulated, my N64 will be hooked up to my television

Fuck that game needs a sequel and/or knockoff.

>>726596
Nintendo consoles have all been heavily reliant on a few first party titles, and pretty much entirely so since the n64.. That the n64 shares this trait is hardly surprising.

If you could turn the ubiquitous vaseline-smear bilinear filtering off I feel like things would hold up much better.

I get that "You can get right up close to something and not see the pixels!" was the new hotness, but that blur combined with the machines horribly low-res textures makes me feel like I lost my glasses.

The novelty wore off real fucking quick for me back in the day and the look certainly hasn't got any more welcome over the years.

>Hey, my old N64
>Let's see how many kills I have on Perfect Dark multiplayer
>Hook it up to my HD Flatscreen
>Looks like shit

I didn't understand resolution until that day.

i still play this...

>>726571
Define "aged poorly".

Because any aging of N64 titles is overshadowed by how god-awful 90% of PS1 titles look today thanks to the console's inability to do proper 3D.

The N64 has plenty of great games, and many of them are still as amazing and playable as the day they were released.

Mario 64 is still the ultimate platformer.
Perfect Dark is still the ultimate FPS.
Sin & Punishment is still the ultimate rail shooter.

>>726661
>>Hook it up to my HD Flatscreen
>>Looks like shit
Two possibilities:
A - your screen has shitty upscaling capabilities.
B - you were using a shitty cable to connect the N64 to the TV.

I've never been a fan of the N64, even when it first came out...And the N64 is one of the few consoles that I currently have zero interest in.

Point being...They look like shit to me anyway, but I can't really say if it's because they've aged poorly or because of my bias.

>>726647
Oh this, definitely, that trilinear mipmapping blur is disgusting. Some games didn't look too fuzzy but others were horrible.

>>726739
>Oh this, definitely, that trilinear mipmapping blur is disgusting.
Which is more disgusting? Texture filtering, or the PS1's "OH MY GOD, IT JIGGLES!" texture system? Oh, and the fact all the 3D models constantly wobbled on the PS1. There are actually people who think the PS1 looks better than the N64 in motion, and it baffles me.

No idea why some of you are putting so much into the graphics. It's really not that big a factor into how well a game holds up except at the most shallow layer.

Wow. These N64 graphics are just... so... shitty. Can't imagine why anyone would want all that lighting and stable 3D and voice acting and no load breaks.

Best first party titles of the generation. Best multiplayer games. Best racing games. That's about it.

>>726780
You're forgetting best platformers, best sports games, best FPS games, and best open-world games in general.

>>726780
I love F-Zero X but Playstation had N64 beat for racing by far.

>>726782
>best open world games

Yeah, nah. Although I am equating openworld to sandbox

>>726791
Technically, the N64 was the only console which could actually DO open world games at the time. 3D ones, at least. Partly because it had 4MB ram, and partially because it used cartridges which allowed minimal load breaks.

>>726730
I think you totally missed the joke in his post

On a more related note, I somewhat agree with OP. I feel a lot of the praise it gets is from a nostalgic point of view, not because the games are as good as people say they are. I never understood why people hailed Ocarina of Time the best game ever made. I played the game for the first time about 6 years after then N64 came out, and hell yeah it was above average, but I thought A Link to the Past was leagues better. Thats just my opinion though.

>>726647
>low-res textures
The whole way the N64 handles texturing is just awful, even by the standards of the time. A tiny texture cache that had to be handled manually coupled with the godawful latency of the system's RDRAM made it an absolute shit to develop for, even ignoring the limits of the cartridge format.

>>726758
Graphics have to be impressive, but they do have to be good enough not to detract from a player's enjoyment of the game they're representing. For me a whole heap of the N64's library doesn't achieve this, whether it's down to the unpleasant filtering, poor framerates, etc.

I can quite happily go back and play even the most sparse of 80s arcade titles because the graphics are clear and functional. I can't make it through more than a couple of levels of Goldeneye without feeling sick and dizzy.

>>726806
DON'T have to be impressive, I mean. Argh.

They are less accessible, yes. But they are not any less noteworthy than they used to be.

>>726806
>even ignoring the limits of the cartridge format.
Obligatory reminder that some developers really liked the cartridges.

>I can't make it through more than a couple of levels of Goldeneye without feeling sick and dizzy.

Goldeneye is hardly the benchmark for the N64, even if it did sell a staggering 8 million copies. Perfect Dark is considered the far superior title. World is Not Enough, although it isn't as good as Perfect Dark simply because it isn't a Rareware game and falls back on generic FPS design, is still a damn good looking game.

Turok 3, Bad Fur Day, Perfect Dark... They're the big 3 graphically, IMO.

>>726629

Pokemon Snap is boring though. I'd be interested in one for the Wii U. It could be interesting.

>>726787

Name some.

>>726871
Nintendo defense force here to save the day!

Spoiler: Anything you name, no matter how good or critically acclaimed is going to be 'shit.' Don't feed the faggotry.

>>726885
Someone should make some gifs showing how PS1 games wobble like crazy in motion, but N64 games are silky smooth.

>>726871
ps had more racing games than n64 had in its entire library

>>726903
>ps had more racing games than n64 had in its entire library
You're forgetting that Nintendo intentionally discouraged developers from making games for their system. The end result was a console which didn't have hundreds of shitty licensed racing games. Instead, it had a nice selection of very good racing games.

>>726912

>>726885 hit the nail on the head

Mario 64 isn't very fun anymore

Games do not age. They are exactly how they were when they were originally released. What ages are player skill and expectations.

Goldeneye especially did not age well...

Sure many N64 games have aged. Also a shit ton of games from other consoles have aged.

>>726929

nothing is fun after 100th time

>>726972
I think everyone has a certain something they can play/watch/read 100 times. For me that was RE4.

>>727005

sure, if you want to ruin the object of your affection

>>726972

Sex.

The games that still stand out on N64 are unique and unmatched in their genre. Mario 64, Wave Race, Virtual Pro Wrestling 2, most of Rare's stuff, the Rush games... those are some off the top of my head that I still revisit frequently. They hold up really well because games of their style just don't exist today. But this is the way it always was on the N64 - some absolute gems amid a lot of stuff that was sub par.

>>727013
that's not true. There's just some things people can do forever.

I still play PSO and have played it on the dreamcast, xbox, and now on the PC on the private server.

I can't imagine the amount of hours I clocked the last 12 years

Super Mario 64 is the worst classic Mario games that Nintendo made. It's still not a bad game, but even Mario Clash was better.

>>726647
>If you could turn the ubiquitous vaseline-smear bilinear filtering off I feel like things would hold up much better.
they'd look like ps1 games

>>727303
>Mario Clash
>better than Mario 64

Not to shit on your opinion but that sounds like something an ultra hipster would say just because Mario 64 is popular as fuck. I mean, come on.

>>727395
Last time I checked PS1 games didn't have a forced 4KB texture size limit. There's a reason that filtering was never switched off.

>>726596
As a child I had fun with the N64 and I never had a PS or couldn't really get into it at that time.

If only I knew how much better the PS1 library was I would have never thought about getting an N64. but whatever, I liked the N64 for its platformers and the few race games and action adventures it had.

some of it was other garbage though. but I do have firm memories about F-Zero X, Wave Race, Castlevania 64, Bomberman 64 and Shadowgate 64.

the N64 was easy to get into. PS1 was cool to but I never saw something that hooked me immediately in the ads or something. as some stuff was for a more mature audience anyway.

>>727395
I... uh... actually like how that looks.

>>727414
The Nintendo 64's 4kb texture cache was more than enough for its textures as PlayStation had a smaller 2kb texture cache. The reason why the Nintendo 64 had "blurry" graphics at times, was actually because of the limited storage of its cartridges. The PlayStation on the other hand, was disc-based as it allowed over 650 MB of data which made up for its smaller 2kb texture cache. If the Nintendo 64 had been disc-based, it would of had way more room for data which would make its textures look impressively better than the PlayStation. But overall, the Nintendo 64 mainly in all its games had better looking textures, because of its anti-aliasing feature. SGI and MIPS did an incredible job with the technology they had back in 1994, in the creation and design of the hardware on the Nintendo 64 with it being cartridge-based.

>>726596
This. It had a shitty controller (obvious complaint I know), a lackluster library and only a few genuinely great games.

>>727426
So the N64 had worse looking textures to save cartridge space?
Figures, first party and Rare games always looked amazing even without an expansion pack.
It's because they were the only ones with access to larger ROMs.

>>727426
>The reason why the Nintendo 64 had "blurry" graphics at times, was actually because of the limited storage of its cartridges.
No. That's not true. The cartridge space was never the issue. The problem is the texture cache causing a fill-rate bottleneck. This meant that adding larger textures, by mapping smaller textures over a single surface, used up precious fill rate. No matter how large the cartridge, increasing the texture quality was a matter of working out how to manage the fill rate.

The PS1's texture quality generally wasn't that good, though. Especially since the system was incapable of perspective correction. People tend to mistake the low resolution textures for "clear" and the n64's filtered textures for "blurry". It's not that simple.

>>727427
I honestly liked the controller because I was too babby to understand the ps1 controller at that time. I know it sounds retarded but after playing some ps1 games recently I feel really weirded out by the button mapping some games have.

just played King's Field for example. R2 and L2 is for looking up and down. Circle opens the menu but you have to choose with X. the weird thing is that some games use X to cancel and O to select. N64 games might have been for a complete babby audience but at least the controls were clearly defined and not confusing.

>>727432
>It's because they were the only ones with access to larger ROMs.
Rareware never used cartridges larger than 32MB. There were plenty of other Dream Team N64 devs beside Rareware, you know. Acclaim, Konami, Factor 5, etc.

>>727438
>N64 games might have been for a complete babby audience
Bad Fur Day. The Turok series. Shadowman. Perfect Dark.
Babby audience.
Not.

>>727438
I think some games like Yugioh Forbidden Memories (3D battles) and King's Field look ridiculously good in terms of early 3D and can easily compete with N64. it looked fine even though it was blurrier.

>>727446
I know. but there were mostly cartoony platformers and stuff.

Perfect Dark without filtering. 32MB cartridge. Half of which was taken up by music and speech.

>>727441
And all their games looked great?

>>727436
I understand a bit better now, but first and second party games tended to look better on the N64.
I can't think of any second party port for a fair comparison between the two, maybe Turok 1.

>>727452
You forgot the obligatory expansion pack.

>>727451
The system had 350+ games. Most of them were NOT cartoony platformers. The fact is that most people just never bothered to go looking for the serious games.

>>727446
>Shadowman
>first time playing
>mfw
>my reaction when

>>727460
but there is a fuckton which wasn't released for USA and Europe

like some of Treasure's games

>>727453
There is World is Not Enough PS1\N64. However, the PS1 version is a different game.

Mission Impossible looks better on N64.
Rayman 2 looks a lot better on N64.
Shadowman looks better on N64.
Toy Story 2 looks a lot better on N64.
Resident Evil 2? Matter of opinion. It runs at 2x the resolution on the N64, but the textures are more compressed.
The unreleased game 40 Winks personally looks better on N64 from the beta I've played.

>>727460
>350+
Yes, 387 games. 387 TOTAL games, 84 of which were never released in English. Compare that to the PS1's 2418 games. There's a reason N64 game lists always have the exact same tired games. There's no room for hidden gems because there aren't any.

>>727452
Perfect Dark had incredibly good face textures. Not quite as good as Turok 3, but that game ran at 15fps in cutscenes so it could do lip synching.

>>727468
very true. but the N64 hidden gems can be counted on one hand and they are all jap only releases.

>>727472
Adon's redesign was bullshit though, I liked her pale skin and dreadlocks.

>>727468
His point was that not all of them could be platformers.
The Playstations always got the largest libraries of all time, no contest.

>>726586
And Banjo Kazooie.
>>726629
Snap actually looks decent. Not amazing, or best on N64, but hey it looks above average for an N64 game. I still enjoy the gameplay on it but would other people say it hasn't "aged well"?
Also elaborate

>>727468
>There's no room for hidden gems because there aren't any.
That's ridiculous. Have you ever played Turok 3? Have you ever played Rocket: Robot on Wheels? Tony Hawk 3? World is Not Enough? Most people haven't. Especially on native N64 hardware. Unlike the PS1, which was riddled with shovelware, the N64 has a lot of quality titles, but consumers simply didn't explore enough.

>>726718
>Mario 64 is still the ultimate platformer.
Speak for yourself.

>>727482
They already had high poly models from Pokémon Stadium, plus it's an on-rails game. Of course it looks great, they only have to render what's shown on screen at all times.

>>727483
>Tony Hawk 3
HOW IS THAT A HIDDEN GEM

>>727473
Have you played Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine? Or Wipeout 64? Or Harvest Moon 64? Do they not count as hidden gems? How obscure does a game have to be before it becomes a hidden gem?

>>727487
Ah, yeah I forgot about that part.

>>727490
>Wipeout 64? Or Harvest Moon 64?
>Tony Hawk 3?
Not hidden gems

>>727489
>HOW IS THAT A HIDDEN GEM
Because it was the last N64 game ever released, and it's underappreciated. Did you play it? Seriously? Because most people were unaware the N64 even GOT Tony Hawk 3.

>>727494
It's the same thing as the PC and PS1 versions you dumbass

>implying N64 games were good in the first place

>>727493
How exactly are we evaluating these hidden gems? We're talking about games NOBODY BOUGHT. Literally.

>This very good game which most people have no idea exists is not a hidden gem because reasons.

>>727496
Try harder.

>>727496
>>>/v/

>>727490
>Harvest Moon 64

>>727495
>It's the same thing as the PC and PS1 versions you dumbass
Actually, it isn't. The N64\PS1 versions are built on the Tony Hawk 2 engine, making them very different to the PC version. The N64\PS1 version are very similar, but the N64 one automatically has better graphics and controls despite a shorter draw distance.

>>726718
>Mario 64
30fps
>Sin & Punishment
30fps
>Perfect Dark
lolnope FPS

>implying these are ultimate anything

There are exactly 2 good N64 games: Mischief Makers and F-Zero X.

>>727506
I believe that game is the favorite of one of the key guys behind HM because he coded it almost singlehandedly or something.

>>727508
Ugh, that reminds me of how shit FPS was just openly accepted on the N64 like pop-in and wobbly textures were on the PS1.

>>726750
Tekken 3 and Tobal 2 look far better than anything on the N64. The sad thing is that the N64 hardware is actually better than the PS1, it's just Nintendo deliberately crippled it by mandating blur-o-vision mode.

>>727508
>>Perfect Dark
>lolnope FPS
Perfect Dark's FPS wasn't actually as bad as people make out. It generally stayed above 15fps. The NTSC version was a bit inferior to the glorious PAL version, but that's beside the point. PD is still possibly the greatest videogame ever made, and it's arguably the crowning glory of the FPS genre.

>>727465
Yeah, I remember World is Not Enough. I owned the N64 version and a friend owned the PS1 version. Shit was waaaay different. The PS1 had this fucking casino level were you had to play blackjack.

Yeah, it's an example of that stuff they did in the SNES/Genesis days. Where they would release a multiplat, but it's actually two different games.

>>727514
>It generally stayed above 15fps.

The fanboy doesn't even realize it's making a fool of itself.

>>727513
>Tekken 3
Tekken 3 consists of pre-renderd backgrounds. It doesn't count. The N64 favored actual 3D.

And the fact of the matter is that bilinear filtering is objectively better than unfiltered textures. The N64 used the bilinear filtering for stuff like shadows and general texture blending.

>>727523
Tekken 3 characters have more polygons per second than any N64 game. Detailed 3D models with full texturing at 60fps. N64 didn't even come close.

>>727521
>The fanboy doesn't even realize it's making a fool of itself.
Four words. Shadow of the Colossus. Best PS2 game ever made, arguably. But it runs at, basically, 15fps half the time.

World is Not Enough and Turok 3 managed to sorta-kinda fix the framerate while pumping quality visuals. But honestly, neither had the visual flair of Perfect Dark.

>>727487
I haven't played Colloseum or XD, but in that Wii Pokemon game, they for sure use the same models/animations for gen 1 and gen 2 Pokemon as they did in Stadium 1 and 2. How isn't Nintendo the king of rehashes?

>>727527
It's shit. Should have been a PS3 game.

>>727508
Were the framerates really that much better on Playstation?
Chrono Cross is a turn based game and it ran at like, 12 fps when the camera zoomed out. It's really obvious if you use the built-in slow motion.
FF8 and 9 also lagged like hell compared to 7.

>>727526
>Tekken 3 characters have more polygons per second than any N64 game.
Prove it. I doubt you can, since N64 polygon counts are rather hard to come by.

>>727526
Dead or Alive on Saturn does all that, plus boob physics, plus a 4096x4096 pixel textured ground (single texture).

>>727490
not a single one you listed is obscure. everybody knows Indiana Jones and fucking Wipeout and Harvest Moon and I frequently saw IM as well in magazins.

a hidden gem would be something that nobody knows in the west. or a franchise and IP where very little is known or something that offers good gameplay and is experimental and stands out as such a game.

hidden = mostly shit almost nobody knows about in the west
gem = good or great game

>>727490
How was Wipeout 64 even made? I thought Wipeout was a Sony-owned IP from the beginning

>>727537
So that's 2 5th-gen systems better than the N64 (Virtua Fighter 2 was also better than anything on N64).

>>727537
But only the Playstation version got Ayame, new costumes and gameplay balancing. But I digress.

>>727540
So was Elan Doree while we are at it, and Panzer Dragoon Saga too.

>>727532
True, but framerate isn't so important in turn based games.

>>727539
The license belonged to Psygnosis or whoever made the games, I forgot. There were also two Wipeout games on the Saturn...

>>727527
>Best PS2 game ever made, arguably.

a pretty good game but best? fuck no.
it's too meager and repetitive for that

Wow. 17 years later Sony ponys are still assmad about the PS1 losing.

>>727538
>hidden = mostly shit almost nobody knows about in the west
Define "the west". Because the N64 was not popular in Japan - hence the lack of Japanese games for it. And the measure of obscurity is the low sales and the fact that only people on /vr/ tend to have any idea said games exist. The textbook example is Turok 3. People knew about the game at the time, but it vanished without a trace. Thanks to emulation, and things like /vr/, people know about it now. It doesn't matter that the N64 has a small library. The fact remains that many of its truly great games are obscure, and need to be pointed out to people. I spent years without knowing that Starcraft, Command and Conquer, and Battle Ogre were on the N64. Games like Tonic Trouble and Rocket Robot on Wheels and Space Station Silicon Valley and San Francisco Rush 2049 - they appeared in magazines, but I never played them and over time I completely forgot about them as many others did.

>>727540
>(Virtua Fighter 2 was also better than anything on N64).
List all the good N64 fighting games. Then explain, objectively, how VF2 was better.

>>727552
>Starcraft
>Command and Conquer

Why would anyone want to play an RTS on a console, though?

>>727549
>a pretty good game but best? fuck no.
>it's too meager and repetitive for that
Ah well... SotC doesn't always induce religious awe in people.

>>727553
>List all the good N64 fighting games.

>
>
>

Done.

I'd argue the N64 doesn't need "hidden gems" because all its gems were right out in the open. With the PS1, you have to wade through shit to get to the good games. That's the price you pay for such an immense library without anything resembling quality control.

I love how people fail to grasp that Nintendo WANTED this. They chose to make the N64 hard to code for. They chose to discourage 3rd party developers from making games for the system. They wanted the best of the best. They wanted a system with only good games. Yes, a few crappy ones slipped through. But the fact is, you pick a random N64 game from a list, and it's likely to be decent. Pick a random PS1 game, and you're likely to get something god-awful. Or worse, a racing game. Or even worse, yet another JRPG.

>>727557
C&C on the N64 uses full 3d models, so it's fun as a novelty. Not sure how the controls worked though, but I know that the Saturn version had fantastic controls for the time - you could do all you wanted, it's just microing that wasn't easy. But in C&C you don't really need that, you build 10000 tanks and bumrush the opponent.

>>727553
I don't think anyone needs to explain why Virtua Fighter is better than, say, BioFreaks. The games speak for themselves. You'd have to be pretty ignorant of the fighting genre, or a pretty massive Nintendrone to defend the N64's fighting library over Virtua Fighter

>>727564
>But the fact is, you pick a random N64 game from a list, and it's likely to be decent.

Okay.
Iggy's Reckin Balls

>>727559
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Fighters Destiny.

I think that's about it though.

>>727552
>Define "the west".

europe and america. wasn't hard, now was it?

>I spent years without knowing that Starcraft, Command and Conquer, and Battle Ogre were on the N64.

I knew about those inbetween age 8-14. except for Battle Ogre but that's because I'm a eurofag and the game was only released in the US and never in Europe.

the rest you listed isn't anything obscure either and I didn't forgot about them. I think Nintendo was much more rigide when it comes to publishing a game and to make sure it has sales, it's got to be something that was half-way famous or known about.

the PS1 library had more games so the possibility that a certain game stays "hidden" and might be a "gem" is higher than with N64 library. that's another measure.

>>727564
But F-Zero is perfectly fine right?

And at least the PS1 had JRPGs. What did the N64 have? I can only think of Ogre Battle 64.

>>727559
And this is exactly the problem. The N64 had a lot of fighting games. But the fact is, nobody wanted to play them. N64 gamers weren't interested in fighting games. Why? Because fighting games are primarily a Japanese thing, and the N64 was not popular in Japan. Who would put a game like Tekken on a console which wasn't going to be played in Japan?

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/nintendo/n64/the-n64-fighting-game-library

Notable ones:

Killer Instinct.
Mortal Kombat Trilogy.
Mortal Kombat 4.
Flying Dragon.
Super Smash Bros.

Those are all decent games.

>>727585
Quest 64
OoT

>>727564
>But the fact is, you pick a random N64 game from a list, and it's likely to be decent. Pick a random PS1 game, and you're likely to get something god-awful. Or worse, a racing game.

Okay.
Iggy's Reckin Balls (N64)
vs
Running Wild (PS1)

two random racing games I remember from old gaming mags because they both were totally ridiculous. You tell me which one is better...

ITT: One, maybe two Nintendo fanboys try desperately to make there shit console seem valid.

>MUH FULL 3D
>MUH QUALITY CONTROL

>>727564
I dont know which is more pathetic, that nintoddlers are soo far in denial to actually believe that or the actual n64 library

>>727585
>And at least the PS1 had JRPGs.
The N64 had Paper Mario.
Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are technically RPGs.

The fact that Square were signed exclusively to Sony meant they couldn't make Nintendo 64 games even if they wanted to. They later created a shell company to publish a title on the Gamecube.

Also, RPGs, especially JRPGs, are generally aimed at the Japanese market. The N64 was not big in Japan. But the fact remains that stuff like Mother 3 was in development for the N64. It was just bad luck that things went the way they did.

>>727590
>Iggy's Reckin Balls (N64)
>vs
>Running Wild (PS1)
Haven't played either of them.

For what it's worth, IGN gave IRB 6.7\10, and RW 6.9\10. Making the latter better by a hair, I guess.

>>727587
Don't forget WCW vs NWO.

>>727602
Sorry. I wasn't sure if the Tekken fanbois would consider them "real" fighting games. Yea. Those n64 wrestling games are still highly regarded today.

>>727601
IGN also gave God Hand a 3/10 and Wii Party Babiez a 7.5/10. Their opinions don't matter for shit.

Running Wild is significantly better out of the two, even if both are mediocre titles.

>>727604
dude, wcw vs nwo was insanely fun. It was like, a bar room brawler, except there was also a ring. It had more taunt/posing moves than some other fighters had attacks.

>>727589
Quest 64 sucked. And

>Zelda
>RPG

>Killer Instinct
Mindless fun, but not a good fighting game. Mainly just a Mortal Kombat clone
>Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Buggy as fuck. Not a good representation of the earlier games
>MK4
Shit. Mortal Kombat's transition into 3D was terrible.
>Smash Bros
Not a fighting game. Fun as fuck though.

I won't comment on that other one, as I don't know what it is.

>>727602
>>727604
Pro wrestling games aren't fighting games.

>>727609
Meant to quote >>727587 too

I really don't like the PS1\N64 console war. But the fact remains the N64 had Rareware, and Rareware are gaming gods.

The N64 gave us games with VISION. With AMBITION. Yes, Rareware had no idea how to deliver a stable framerate, but the sheer ambition of Perfect Dark, and how it succeeded at its task, still take my breath away.

>>727609
>>Zelda
>>RPG
Yes, this game where I wear masks representing the souls of dead people to gain abilities and interact with NPCs in different ways while solving quests, making choices of whom to save and when, and exploring an open world is totally not an RPG. No, I need STATS and EMO HAIRCUTS.

>>727585
>What did the N64 have?

Aidyn Chronicles
and well...
Shadowgate 64 (although that was a pure adventure but it kinda was fantasy RPG-ish in the sense of something like King's Field and Elder Scrolls)

>>727626
>Shadowgate 64

I want a fucking remake with good textures and lots of additional content and smoother storyline.

>>727626
There's Hybrid Heaven, too.

The N64 moved away from the stats and grinding and general design tropes of classical RPGs, instead favoring open worlds and exploration, as seen with Majora's Mask. Personally, I think it was an improvement. The PS1 doesn't have anything vaguely resembling Majora's Mask in terms of freedom and depth.

>>727629
>The PS1 doesn't have anything vaguely resembling Majora's Mask in terms of freedom and depth.

Brave Fencer Musashi. but I would compare that rather to Goemon 64 myself. other than that. a shitload of content but just one village if I remember correctly.

Duke Nukem: Zero Hour is an underappreciated N64 game. It had a FPS mode cheat, too.

>>727629
>There's Hybrid Heaven, too.

I know. man, I thought HH could actually compete with MGS1 on the PS. but it didn't convince me as much as MGS1.

would have been nice if HH would have the same importance as MGS as a whole and as a series. that would have been interesting. I still have hopes for Hybrid Heaven 2.

>>727638
Yea... BFM isn't really open-world, AFAIK. And it's still a turn-based RPG. The realtime combat of Ocarina of Time was a direction I really appreciated. One which was a welcome change when it appeared, in a sense, in games like Kingdom Hearts.

It's very much like Morrorwind\Elder Scrolls in general. They're RPGs, but you don't get hit by a fireball because of stat X. You get hit because you didn't move.

>>727653
>Morrowind
>you don't get hit by a fireball because of stat X
uhh

>>727653
>And it's still a turn-based RPG.

what? no. it has RPG stats but there aren't pure turn based moves. it plays like an action adventure/platformer.

>BFM isn't really open-world, AFAIK.

debatable.

>>727642
YES, 2nd best nukem game ever.

>>727665
Fair enough. I guess it's hard to evaluate that sort of thing. Look - I think the PS1 and N64 both had great games, but the systems were suited to different things + the fact that Japanese devs favored the PS1.

The problem with this thread is it's too broad - which games? And how have they aged poorly - in what sense?

>>727609

>Smash Bros
>Not a fighting game

Then what is it? Just because it doesn't rip off of Street Fighter(and the rest of the early industry fighters) doesn't mean it isn't a fighting game.

>>727696
A combative party game.

>>727702
>A combative party game.
This line is getting really blurry from where I'm standing. Especially when you're doing a one-on-one battle in singleplayer.

I was watching a friend play OOT the other day and I thought "Damn, N64 graphics are so incredibly fuzzy." The blurred textures in those things look _awful_.

>>727702
>combative
What's the difference between a combative party game and fighting party game?

>>727708
>I was watching a friend play OOT
OoT is a first generation N64 game. It's notoriously blurry. Same with Goldeneye. Later N64 games were better looking by a significant margin.

>>727702

>A combative party game
>A combative game

You mean a fighting game? Where the entire point is to KO your opponent using various moves and special moves/combos?

Are you retarded?

First gen game: Turok: Dinosaur Hunter.

>>727723
Not actually sure what gen Turok 3 counts as, but it was close to the end... Probably 3rd or 4th. Note the striking difference in draw distance and general textures. Yes, the ground is blurry, but even PC games at the time like Deus Ex had crummy ground textures.

Every game that exists "aged badly" already. Every game that will exist in the next 30 years has already "aged badly".

Until video games can look exactly like real life, every game will have "aged poorly" at launch. And even then they'll always be "aged" because there's still room for improvement.

All this, of course, according to the faggots' mentality of aging. I don't agree with claiming that games have aged or not. You should just say whether you like the game or not and why.

The World is Not Enough by Eurocom was released late 2000, and it, like Perfect Dark eliminates fog and increases texture quality. TWINE had a better framerate than PD, though. (But PD got rid of fog completely. TWINE uses it for "atmosphere" sometimes.)

>>727731
TWINE had some decent voice acting. Unfortunately, like Resident Evil 2, the codec isn't emulated correctly at the moment. So while you do hear a lot of it, sometimes it degenerates into garbage mid-line.

>>727592
ITT: /v/ shitposter's first day on /vr/

>>726972

Mario Kart 64. I don't really care if it was a great game, I don't really have much to compare it with as games were really expensive back then and I had better things to do. All I can say is I enjoyed it and still enjoy it.

>>727730

This.

Funny thread. I think all the arguments come down to:

I had a N64 15 years ago
vs.
I had a PS1 15 years ago

I can't really see why it would matter which system was better in absolute terms. But then, I'm not a gamer.
The way I saw it back then, the N64 had all the fun games like Mario 64 plus Perfect Dark and the PS1 had all the darker, more mature games. I just preferred the former and still do.

>>727723
You know, I'd have to say I definitely prefer Turok over Turok 2. Its levels aren't nearly as much of a clusterfuck as Turok 2's (god damn, the port of adia can fuck itself), it doesn't have nearly as bad of FPS issues, and its music is still top fucking notch (not to say that Turok 2's music isn't either, just that you aren't losing any musical quality).

Regardless, is Turok 3 worth grabbing if I see it?

>>727723

To be fair it looks like that on PC too

Threads long and stupid, just wanted to point out two sadly missing things from the thread

1. Best N64 fighta gaem was Rakuga Kidds
2. Good N64 graffixxxx examples and nobody mentioned Jet Force Gemini? Mizars Palace looked gorgeous

N64 full of classics thats collectorfags dont even know exits

I loved and DESTROYED this game as a kid.

Tried replaying it now and its almost unplayable.

>>728056
>>728050

>>728056
I really loved this as a kid and keep thinking about revisiting it. At the time it seemed like the next best thing to having Metroid 64.

>>728056
I really wish I'd played this as a kid; cause I'd have loved it to death too, but I too find it unplayable nowadays

>>728056
Never finished this game because of the fucking bears.

>>728058
Holy shit, the N64 had 2d sprite functionality? And I guess because of that, the "texture" clarity for the bottle is much better than that for a regular model?

How did the N64 work with 2D graphics? I know that of the 5th gen systems, it was "the worst" with the PS1 doing it a little better/easier and the Saturn being built for that.

>>728174
There aren't that many pure 2d games. The only one in my collection is Ogre Battle 64. It looks amazing, though the "gotta read a faq' nature of the game means its probably never getting a replay.

In terms of using sprites in 3d fields, check out Mario Kart 64 (the drivers are sprites), Doom 64, and Hexen 64. The sprites are smoothed and look just great.

Honestly, I would have liked more 2d games on the system, because it does killer 2d graphics.

Of course, with it being big in the west and a flop in Japan, there wasn't all that much japanese support besides the big N itself, and Western devs weren't making all that many 2d games at the time besides certain PC focused genres like RPG and Strategy. Though there is a Starcraft 64 which I haven't played.

space station silicon valley is still fun to play though.
the graphic is not an issue since it was basic and cartoony still back then

>>728189
And despite using sprites, MK64 runs well below 60FPS. F-Zero X on the other hand has many more vehicles, and they're actual models, yet it consistently runs at 60 FPS.

yes

I never played Pokemon Snap until last year, and it's my 2nd favorite game in the franchise. I can't even imagine how many hours I've sunk into Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 is still fantastic, and Doom 64 is absolutely fantastic

>>728174
>>728189

Mortal Kombat Trilogy was also one of the few fully 2D games on N64.

>>727717
>You mean a fighting game? Where the entire point is to KO your opponent using various moves and special moves/combos?

The inclusion of items and stage hazards are what slide Smash Bros over to the party game side of the scale. Victory relies just as heavily on luck as it does skill unlike more "legitimate" fighting games like Street Fighter. You can get rid of those things making the fighing game aspect a bit more legitimate but in doing so what made the game fin in the first place.

>No items No smash balls Final Destination
Fuck that noise.

>>727717
>You mean a fighting game? Where the entire point is to KO your opponent using various moves and special moves/combos?

The inclusion of items and stage hazards are what slide Smash Bros over to the party game side of the scale. Victory relies just as heavily on luck as it does skill unlike more "legitimate" fighting games like Street Fighter. You can get rid of those things making the fighing game aspect a bit more legitimate but in doing so lose what made the game fin in the first place.

>No items No smash balls Final Destination
Fuck that noise.

>>728189
Mischief Makers was also 2D mostly. fun game

>>728260
To be fair, some Mortal Kombat games had those same features.

Not that I care, I think people who take "competitive" fighting games too seriously are autistic.

been playing lots of N64 lately: Bangai-O, Paper Mario, Mischief Makers, Goemon's Great Adventure...

yeah no OP, I don't see it. They're still young and cheerful.

>>726629
>Pokémon Snap on Wii U and 3DS
>3DS version has 3D pictures
>Wii U version has Miiverse compatibility, letting you post your photos there
>both use the gyro sensor
This must happen.

>>728363
>Bangai-O

that game is so weird.

>collecting fruits in a mecha/stg game

>>727730
Its not about appearance, often the controls of an older game are inferior or clunky.

>>727426
N64DD games seem to have better graphics than standard N64 games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUfZhX57cx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRvy6Z2ekAc

>>726871
wipeout
nintendrone here

>>728406

yeah, the game is pretty bizarre and never takes itself seriously, for example characters talking about how nice 2D graphics look, or how Treasure like to make difficulty levels.
It's a great game.

>>727410
>But it's 3D! Not like my superior NES games!

>>728430
I know, I played and liked it.

>for example characters talking about how nice 2D graphics look

isn't there a jap version only? anyway, I like such things because they break down the fourth wall to the player. reminds me of Persona 2 where Jack Frost ask you if vidya gaems are fun and you can tell him you haven't played one at all yet to which he responds "you're lying. you're playing one right now" and gets angry.

>>727550
The PS1 won the console war.
It's debatable which one had better games, though PS1's library is close to 2,000 games bigger.

>>727609
>Not a fighting game.
It may be a game entirely dedicating to fighting and largely classified as a fighting game, but it doesn't play the same way as Street Fighter, so it must be a platformer!

>>728174
Yoshi's Story looked pretty good.

>>728446

yeah N64 version is jap only, I know some moon though.

>>728486
But don't forget the undeniably cringeworthingly babby-tier intro with the singing Yoshis was.

>mfw that intro

>>728189

Wasn't Yoshi's Story 2D?

>>728491

I loved that. But everybody I knew seemed to hate it... Oh well.

>>727621

Action-Adventure games and RPGs are similar genres, (and with the Action-RPG, there's even more overlap) but they are still different genres, and Zelda has always fallen firmly on the side of Action-Adventure.

>>728507

2.5D I think.

I think it mainly comes down to the fact that the N64 was in the first generation of 3D games, and it was finding it's feet. A lot of PS1 games have agreed terribly also.

>>727426
>The Nintendo 64's 4kb texture cache was more than enough for its textures
No it wasn't. Actual developers beg to differ, even on the very same forum you stole your NINTENDO DEFENSE FORCE post from word-for-word (http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7366714/1/ plagiarism fans!)

It wasn't a system-managed 'cache' in the way that other systems would automatically cache texture data to speed up their fills. It was (up until Nintendo threw things open to certain devs in the dying days) the ONLY way of getting texture data on to the screen and had to be managed manually, being filled and called as many times per frame as you could get away with. From the N64's notoriously slow RAM. Plus if you wanted to use any of the N64's much lauded 3D features like mipmapping you were immediately limited to 2KB per surface.

>PlayStation had a smaller 2kb texture cache
But it was a cache as we normally think about caches and existed just to accelerate fills, it was not the sole means of shifting texture data. In the PS1 it does absolutely nothing to limit the maximum texture size and you'd never explicitly load the cache.

>>728597
Not defense force, I was actually uninformed.
Thanks for educating me, though.

>>727506
>Faggoty weaboo reaction face

>>728489
>I know some moon though.

figured. I should really learn moon too so I can play jp only releases.

>>728409
>often the controls of an older game are inferior or clunky.

I disagree. I find that they are often just as flexible and responsive as modern control schemes, but are fundamentally very different. In other words, you just aren't USED to them.
In my case, I can't for the life of me get a grip on Assassin's Creed or Halo 4, but I have no issues with games like Shadow Man or Goldeneye. It's all a matter of what you have played and what you are currently comfortable with.

The only good-looking N64 games I've ever seen are Perfect Dark and Turok 3, and even then I bet that Rare and Acclaim could have made the same games on a PSX. (Bear in mind that PSX devs were saying basically the same things about the PSX that Rare was saying about the N64.)

>>728532
iirc, there weren't any actual 3d objects, it was all prerendered

Yes, to a point OP.

For example, OoT aged fucking terribly while games like LA and LttP aged extremely well.

I think it was the leap into 3D honestly.

>>728828
There's a simple reason for this and really answers OP's question.

The N64 was part of the first console gen to really attempt 3D, the capability of the hardware at the time was obviously not going to be amazing, but it was groundbreaking for the time.

2D tech had existed for about 30 years prior so that was nearing the peak of it's quality, so basically games like Lttp and LA were the pinnacle of 2D and OoT was the beginning of 3D.

>>728849
>lttp
>pinnacle of 2d

No offense, but you sound really dumb saying something like that. Lttp was released in 1991. Compared to 2d games on the Saturn, PS2, or modern consoles, it looks like an Atari game. It doesn't even stand up to late release SNES titles.

>>728859
Okay it wasn't the absolute pinnacle, but it was up there. It still looks nice enough today.

>>727550
>PS1
>losing
We're talking 100 million+ units sold versus like 33 million for the N64 and 10 million for the Saturn, guy.

>>727513
None of those actually looked good. Stadium looked ages better.

>>728828
>>728849
I don't think Link's Awakening was ever meant to be good looking.
LttP looks like it was made to be functional above pretty, you should look at Minish Cap for actual 2D eyecandy.

>>727527
SotC is crippled by the fact the character flails around like a madman whenever he moves. Which is why its so blatantly obvious.
Link and Mario do not move as much on N64 titles, which makes it look a loot smoother than it is.

>>727473
>>727552
>>727538
>>727490
Generally, the N64 libary is rather small with hidden gems, because the emulators are rather shitty.
Most Factor5 games does not run at all on te N64, and roughly only the core games does so, even with problems(Paper Mario and its fucking framebuffer effects for instance)

>>728924
Its the same deal as FF4. It looks like an upscaled 8bit game. It looks good, sure, and its a great game, but saying its the "pinnacle" is hilarious when its not even stunning for the year it was released. Play some Afterburner (86) or Thunderblade (87) next to Link to the Past.

>>727585
Everything that sunk along with the 64DD. If it was not for that, the system might even have gotten Final Fantasy.

Not directly related, but can I get a price check on a solid N64 w/ Expansion pak, one controller, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask (both cart only)? Thanks /v/ros

>>728963
64DD still didn't use CDs. It used proprietary floppies.

>>728859
>>728849
>>728863
I was more speaking in terms of game mechanics themselves than actual looks. LttP and LA feel much more polished than OoT in general.

>>728697
>Being new

No you're not.

Also I think 3D PS1 games aged more poorly than 3D games on N64.

That's because They were pretty crap at the time

>>727585
>And at least the PS1 had JRPGs. What did the N64 have?
Nothing.

(yes it had some of the best games of all times but if you played those ~10 games there was nothing)

>>727415
>Firm memories
That said, you mah nigga for liking Castlevania 64.

>>727587
There was also Mace: the Dark Ages and Bio F.R.E.A.K.S.
Mace was pretty decent for a 3D fighter but I never played Bio Freaks. It looked pretty subpar.

>>729429
Why no Saturn? It seems odd to include every other Sega console but not it.

>>729471
Its some sort of troll image designed to show off PC gaymen master race.

Having "Windows + DOS" as one bar means he might as well have rolled all 3 playstations together, since the launch PS3 could play all 3.

>>728461
>It's debatable which one had better games
No. It really isn't.

>>729432
gee, thanks man.

Other than that I also had both Zelda games, Goemon 64 and Snowboard Kids. I really liked that Konami (and even Atlus) didn't skip the N64. only thing I never had was Hybrid Heaven.

>>726571

Early 3D games have probably aged worse than anything else out there, since they were still finding their way. I don't think N64 or PSX titles are weak by todays standards or anything though, just occasionally ugly.

>>729939
Who could possibly find this ugly?

>>728491
it really was pre-schooler & babby's first vidya: the game

>>726782
I hope you're talking consoles there bud. You just said best FPS games right there.

>>728982
Like $30 total?

Or just buy both games on the Wii shop for $20 total.

>>729971
Not sure if sarcastic

All developers were going through weird growing pains with the transition to 3D. The N64 just magnified these growing pains by being an almost 3D-only console.

//////////all n64 age threads for the rest of eternity

Why won't you guys stop bickering? All game consoles (including the PS1/N64) have good games. I played good games on my Atari Jaguar and 3DO. I never regretted my purchase of the N64 even once, even though there were probably less than 20 games that I was really interested in.

>>729971
The PS1 suffered from wobbling textures and models due the lack of a GPU and lack of floating point calculation support. Spyro was one of the few games, along with Crash Bandicoot, which worked around the issue.

By N64 standards, it's not awe-inspiring, but the effort required to make the PS1 render those sort of visuals should be applauded.

>>730014
And people are looking forward to Groovy Wool. How low has the Wii U sunken to look forward to "Pre-schooler's First Game 2: Groovy Boogawool" and constantly scream "NINTENDOMINATION"?

fun gaem

>>728957
>(Paper Mario and its fucking framebuffer effects for instance)
That was fixed years ago, anon.

>>728028
>You know, I'd have to say I definitely prefer Turok over Turok 2. Its levels aren't nearly as much of a clusterfuck as Turok 2's (god damn, the port of adia can fuck itself), it doesn't have nearly as bad of FPS issues, and its music is still top fucking notch (not to say that Turok 2's music isn't either, just that you aren't losing any musical quality).
>Regardless, is Turok 3 worth grabbing if I see it?
Firstly, anon, the PC port of Turok 2 is really worth checking out. Yes, it's a port. But Acclaim did a good job. Plus it has stuff like quicksaving, and what appears to be longer draw distance from what I've seen.

Turok 3 is a whole other kettle of fish. The graphics are... different. It has much less fog than Turok 2, the graphics are pretty good in general, and the framerate is much better, but the game is obsessed with dirt and grime and rust, and the game is also obsessed with looking like Half Life. It's also obsessed with playing like Half Life. Personally, it's a decent game, and it has a pretty neat storyline, if a bit fragmented. The game screams "rushed". I've played the prototypes from 1-3 months before release, and they were at times unplayably broken. The fact Acclaim managed to get the game to a reasonably polished state in a single month or so is really applaudable.

Problem with every single one of these ps1/n64 threads.
>Durr look at these screenshots of this game I took inside a shitty emulator at three times the normal resolution it would have ever been seen at
>damn look how shitty it is everyone!

>>726972
just give it time stuff becomes fun again

Perfect Dark is still awesome. I fired that up recently and ended up playing the combat simulator for about 3 hours.

>>731234
>>Durr look at these screenshots of this game I took inside a shitty emulator at three times the normal resolution it would have ever been seen at
>>damn look how shitty it is everyone!
The irony is that a lot of N64 games upscale really well. (Yes, there are the texture quality issues, but the 3D is still solid.) The problem with the PS1, as most people discover, is that the machine can't move textures, models, etc, point X of a position. It's usually hardcoded to the game's resolution. Which is why textures and models wobble so badly when upscaled.

Even worse is when people play a game on a shitty emulator with the wrong plugins, common with N64, and blame the game for looking bad.

>>731416
Thankfully, PS1 emulation is now highly accurate, so games can be played exactly as they were meant to be. N64 still needs a lot of work, but a software plugin just came out that shows a ton of promise for pixel-accurate N64 graphics.

>Still play Mario 64
>Still play Kirby 64
>Still play Mario Kart 64
>Still play Pokemon Stadium

etc. I still enjoy my system, the only thing that has aged poorly is the controller. Otherwise I still think it's a fantastic system

Starfox 64 is the only game that aged well.

>>729461
and War Gods. the unholy trinity of shitty attempts Midway made at cloning their own game, god knows why they even bothered

>>728260
>playing brawl

>>729461
i recently acquired a copy of bio freaks. it's bad.

old fag here.

When n64 came out, mario64 wasn;t so much great looking as much as it was an open world. Even then everything looked like shit on it. In comparison to ps1 and Saturn, 64 always was blurry and lacked cut scenes etc. I never thought it was a superior system in anyway. I think most people who were 15-18 back then were able to distance themselves from the hype at some point.

There isn't many multiplats that were better on 64. I can't think of 1 really.

>>731454
such a good game.

>>731486
>There isn't many multiplats that were better on 64. I can't think of 1 really.
Dude. Literally every multiplat game is better on N64. Rayman, Toy Story, Mission Impossible, Resident Evil 2, etc. The N64 didn't use FMV, but it had cutscenes. At the time, people like me saw the PS1 for what it was - an underpowered machine which hid its weaknesses behind prerendered backgrounds and liberal use of FMV scenes which looked nothing like the game you were playing. A good example would be Final Fantasy VII.

N64 developers instead tended to render everything ingame, which was a move which paid off. FMV ages horribly. It doesn't benefit from upscaling, and it looks terrible compared to ingame graphics due to compression.

>>731634
That said, the PS1 had some good games, if you're willing to look past the over-reliance on prerendering and FMV and load breaks, etc.

>>731440
>Thankfully, PS1 emulation is now highly accurate
It's been accurate since the 90's, thanks to Xebra. The problem is that accurate PS1 emulation replicates all the glaring hardware flaws. About the best thing which could happen to PS1 emulation would be z-buffer emulation. It's theoretically doable, if highly intensive, and would partially fix one of the PS1's biggest failings as a 3D console.

>>731634
40 Winks was an interesting example, even if it was never physically released. The N64 version redid all the cutscenes from the PS1 version using the ingame engine, and it looked pretty sweet.

http://youtu.be/iJtE2oTuvtU?t=3m4s

Watch carefully anons. This is Rayman 2 PS1 vs N64.

As you can see, the PS1 version is unable to keep its models stable. Globox is constantly wobbling, wheras the N64 version moves smoothly.

>that feel when N64 emulation is in a worse state than GameCube emulation

I just want to play Space Station Silicon Valley without glitches, /vr/ I mean glitches the emulator introduced, smartasses

>>731759
The new RSP and RDP plugins have been making tremendous headways into glitch-free N64 emulation. They are very resource intensive, however.

>>731134
I really need to go back and play this. I only rented it because the enemies looked like the killer from the Scream movies.

That's because the controller is horrendous and the camera in every single game is awful.

Fun as fuck fighting game.

Only assholes played the Tekken ripoff part and not the superior SD part[/spoiler

>>727483
I was and still am a huge N64 fan but come the fuck on. Those are not hidden, and they aren't gems. If people skipped them, it was for a reason. You'd have to be retarded to play THPS3 on anything but a PS2.

>>726571

Most of them were bad to start with.

Early 3D looks dildos to me.

>>727497
I don't think it takes a lot of debate to determine that an obscure port of a widely known game is not what the majority of people would consider a "hidden gem." Why do you think they skipped Wipeout or Ridge Racer on N64? Because they were tired of that shit already.

>>726584
Rayman was shit, he is shit, and he will forever be shit.

>>727514
N64 Perfect Dark is crap, because of the framerate and the crappy control (that's the N64 controller's fault actually), XBLA Perfect Dark is way better, but still is not one of the best FPSes ever made.

>>727553
If you need an explanation of this, you're simply an idiot. I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just the truth.

>Prove to me why Street Fighter II is better than Pit Fighter.

This is how stupid you sound.

>>727564
This is a joke. Right?

>>727472
Man, those models look like an early PS2 game (maybe i'm exagerating, but they look really impressive for a N64 game).

>>727495
The PC version is based on the PS2/GC/Xbox version, not the PS1/N64 version.

>>731921
There was a sequel to this in Japan, totally SD. Just found out about it and bought it. It's pretty damn good.

>>731964
Well, it's true they hid/locked out a lot of the N64's capabilities from devs for a long time, and only let a select few like Rare and Factor 5 get greater access.

>>727642
If it wasn't for the craptastic N64 controller i would play that.

>>727494
Huh, didn't know THPS3 was the last N64 game. I actually remember seeing it advertised at EB Games way back in the day, with a tagline saying something along the lines of "N64 owners, we didn't forget you!"

Pretty much all early 3d stuff has aged poorly, that's not something that's just happened to N64 games.

>>726661
get the expansion pak

Ever noticed how arguments about the N64 library always come down to elaborate debates about resolution, frame rates, filtering, programming... never the quality of the actual game. You don't see stuff like this in threads about other consoles.

>>732152
Saturn VS PS1
Jaguar VS 3DO

>>726842
>Obligatory reminder that some developers really liked the cartridges
[Citation Needed]

>>726596
Wow, I thought I was the only one who thought so.

>>732152
Those technical details are part of the quality of the actual game. Eg. you can't have tight feeling controls unless you have a high framerate.

We rarely mention technical details in 3rd and 4th generation threads because those consoles hardly ever had problems with them.

>>733006
It should probably be pointed out, that in the N64's case, those physical limitations of the hardware ACTUALLY WERE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!

>>733043
False. N64 would have been amazing if Nintendo had allowed PS1 style textures. They deliberately crippled it so it would look better in screenshots.

>>733067
>They deliberately crippled it so it would look better in screenshots.

they deliberately crippled it because there wasn't enough room for textures on the first gen carts

>>733080
Nothing to do with cartridge costs, it's because they saw their blur-o-vision filtering as the distinguishing feature that set them apart from PS1. It killed the frame rate but that doesn't show up in screenshots so Nintendo didn't care.

>>733067
not false, the lack of texture was due to real honest to god physical restraints of the shitty last minute hardware Nintendo dredged up after they parted ways with Sony.

Sony used what they had learned to make the playstation. that is simply what happened.

>>733101
Yes, but that's a separate problem. Even if they solved it they'd still have terrible framerates because the hardware isn't powerful enough to do filtered textures at a good fill rate.

I've been over this in so many N64 threads it's not funny, but texture filtering did not make N64 games look worse. Please learn about basic 3D graphics programming principles before you repeat such rubbish

N64 textures were inherently low-resolution and look bad with or without texture filtering, but certainly look worse without it (unless you're some kind of pixel weirdo).

>>733147
It did make N64 games look worse, because the hardware wasn't fast enough for both good framerates and texture filtering at the same time. Just as you say, the textures look bad filtered or unfiltered, so Nintendo literally forced bad framerates on us because of a marketing gimmick.

>>733183
>Just as you say, the textures look bad filtered or unfiltered, so Nintendo literally forced bad framerates on us because of a marketing gimmick

Texture filtering (and other image quality - IQ - features) could be turned off on all games that were released after the release of the Version 2 N64 SDK during the middle of 1998. You can see this most prominently on the first level of Perfect Dark where the buildings in the distance have unfiltered textures.

Developers consciously chose to use texture filtering because they believed that the improvement in IQ justified the hit on the system fill-rate.

>>733193
And sadly they were right, because their job wasn't to make the best game, but to make the most money. People bought games based on screenshots.

I just replayed all of Wave Race in one fucking session.

this made me realize how much I miss the 90ies. I really do. I'm listening to the soundtrack now, extended version even if it's just the same loop all over again for 30 minutes.

>>731917
they are actually inspired by haniwa statues in japan. pic related. scream has nothing to do with it. but they do look similar to that mask.

goddamn the clancer tribes were a bunch of retarded fuck sometimes but funny.

>>733205
UR TEH CHAMPIGNON
CONGRAAAAATULASHUNS

I miss that game so mcuh.

>>733197
I'd agree with you in some sense about graphics overselling games, but it's pretty hard to see whether textures are filtered or not in tiny screenshots on the back of the box or in magazines.

>>726616
Man, you're fucking nuts. Mario 64 is hardly the best Mario game and the joystick was horrible.

It has some good games but I wouldn't be surprised if OP is one of the many people going back to OOT or Super Mario 64 and coming to the sad realization that N64's classic games aren't half as good as the Playstaiton's, Saturn's, or Nintendo's previous console's.

>>733709
I love you windfish I'll never forget you <3

>>733709
>half as good as the Playstaiton's, Saturn's,

are you on crack? Playstation 3D games looked and played like ass in comparison

>>733787
this, I wish they had just made more higher-res 2D games with the playstation

>>733787
I said classic games. You need to read more carefully.

>>733231
MAXIMUM POWER!

>>731707
Keep in mind that Rayman 2 was developed with the N64/PC in mind. The psx port was just something they rushed like a year after it's release.

>>731949
>muh halo

>>731707
Isn't the DC version generally considered to be the best by far?

>>733868

you need to be more precise with your shitty opinions

ITT: Opinions: The Thread

>>733959
Is somebody getting their grumpy-dumpys?

>>730095
that's the entire point of the thread, retardo

Yep, revisited n64 recently and found only a handful of games even playable. One of the shittiest consoles imo.

>>733942
>Isn't the DC version generally considered to be the best by far?
Possibly, but the Dreamcast is a 6th Gen console. It's not surprising if it has some graphical advantages over the N64.

>>733709
>Man, you're fucking nuts. Mario 64 is hardly the best Mario game and the joystick was horrible.
This doesn't make any sense. Mario 64 was the FIRST 3D game, or at least platformer, to ever bind movement speed directly to the stick, AFAIK.

The N64 stick has problems, but a lot of them can be prevented by lubricating it to prevent it grinding itself out.

>>726571
I must be the only person who thinks the N64 was a piece of shit save maybe,.,.. 4 or 5 ames

>>733094
>It killed the frame rate but that doesn't show up in screenshots so Nintendo didn't care.
It didn't kill the framerate, generally. It only killed the framerate if the devs bit off more than they could chew - which did happen quite a lot. Let's not pretend the PS1 was filled with games which actually ran at 30-60FPS. The PS1 was filled with games where the god-awful framerate wasn't noticable. JRPGs, for example.

>>733101
>Sony used what they had learned to make the playstation. that is simply what happened.
Sony didn't learn anything. The PS1 was a thrown together system which lacked the ability to render basic 3D effects. The reason it succeeded was a mixture of propaganda, its success in Japan swaying JRPG\Shmup fans, some decent games despite cringe-inducing hardware limitations, and... luck.

I find it bizarre how people look at PS1 games and are unable to compute that wobbling textures, wobbling models, and a prerendered background\FMV fetish are bad things. Seriously. 3D is not meant to wobble. People's heads are not meant to jiggle all over the place when they're standing still. Now I appreciate that people "got used to it", just as N64 gamers "got used to" filtered textures. But the fact remains that the N64 had no drastic hardware limitations like the PS1 did.

>>734354
What's wrong with pre-rendered backgrounds? They look really good, and tons of PC games (which could render 3d just fine) used them, too.

>>734340

I bet you played on the emulator

>>734360
>What's wrong with pre-rendered backgrounds? They look really good, and tons of PC games (which could render 3d just fine) used them, too.
It's okay if a designer CHOOSES to use them. After all, many modern games still use pre-rendered backdrops. The problem was that the PS1 in particular had a fetish for them. The reason was that the system simply didn't have the chops for proper 3D. Pre-rendered backgrounds cripple game design. Games like Parasite Eve 2 tried to get around this by using FMV - one of the only times FMV actually IMPROVED a game - the game would overlay characters over a FMV background which could be moved like a real camera along a rail. This allowed stuff like walking down corridors, etc.

However, when you compare Resident Evil and Parasite Eve to something like Dino Crisis, which bit the bullet and tried to do full 3D - even if it could only handle simple industrial environments with a small viewing area, the improvement was drastic.

So pre-rendering has two basic problems:
It's fixed resolution. So it can't upscale, and there are serious limitations to how well special effect can be applied to it.
And it hampers game design. You're dealing with a game world which is fundamentally static. Everything is nailed down. Camera angles are fixed.

Thanks to the N64's weakness at handling pre-rendering, most games favored full 3D. The PS1 used pre-rendering because it HAD to. The N64 didn't use it because it made for inferior looking games. But texture quality aside, I still think Resident Evil 2 still looks better on N64, because the parts of the environment which are actually 3D don't wobble all over the place.

So, anons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgtAXCaSlpk Bad Fur Day director's commentary just came out, and has some great info about the N64.

Firstly, apparently DK64 only used the expansion pack because DK64 kept crashing randomly, and the DK64 team couldn't find the cause, so they shifted memory to the Exp Pack, which cured it. (Conker team were quite smug about this.)

>>734384
>It's fixed resolution. So it can't upscale

BG: EE was worth buying just for the fact that they modified the engine to allow for scaling with the mouse wheel. I don't think I've ever seen a pre-rendered game do that before.

>>726571

More so than SNES-era and Gamecube-era, about on par with NES-era.

Of course, it all depends on the game.

>>734360
They look good... on the original console on a CRT TV. If you step beyond those boundaries, either by emulating or playing on an HDTV, you will find they scale terribly because they are very low-res.

>>726672
duude, that game is the shit. Fucking stunt course is still awesome

>>731634
The 3d was better for sure, but in general all the bells and whistles were sucked out to save space on the cart. I felt like n64 games had the core 3d down solid, but everything else was horrid. Crash Bandicoot looked way better than any 64 game.

N64 was a bulldozer, ps1 was a sports car, saturn was a limo.

>>734442
And? Any console game designed for 240p resolution looks terrible when stretched on an HDTV. FF7 doesn't look any worse than FF6 does. Have you seen the halo around Celes' nose that appears in HD? Its like another Shoah.

>>734474
Generally, any game that relies on a lot of detailed sprites and artwork looks bad when upscaled several times over. So yeah, older games like FFVI also suffer.

>>734470

the thing that ruined many N64 games for me is developers using muddy textures in realistic games, seriously what is up with that? Everything is brown, what the fuck devs? They should have gone SM64 route and used minimal textures while focusing more on detailed 3D models and lighting as well as solid colors.

>>734470
>Crash Bandicoot looked way better than any 64 game.
Crash Bandicoot never had more than 1500 (about 800 for Crash 1) polys onscreen at any time. You moved along a rail, basically, with the environment occluding all the 3D behind it.

Seriously. Which N64 games did you play? How can you honestly say Crash looks better than Bad Fur Day or Perfect Dark?

>>734490
Here's Perfect Dark. Tell me honestly that Crash look better. All that realtime lighting. Thunder, rain, particles flying off everything which gets shot.

>>734512

In glorious 10 frames per second.

>>734518
>In glorious 10 frames per second.
Why do people keep claiming this? PD did not run at 10fps. Or anything close to that. The framerate fluctuated with scene complexity. And it ran quite a bit faster than Goldeneye.

The point isn't framerate, anyway. The point is graphical quality. The PS1 had atrocious framerates in games like Chrono Cross. I don't see people picking on CC all the time.

Rayman 2 looked bloody fantastic on the N64. It's odd how everyone ignores how good it looks. Perhaps because it's a plebian Ubisoft game?

>>734530
>I don't see people picking on CC all the time.
heh

>>734553
They pick on it for not being Chrono Trigger. Dunno about framerates. Generally they just fap all over the pre-rendered backgrounds.

>B...But this game is chuggy as shit during battles.
>So?
>You don't see how that's a problem?
>Shut up. You're just jealous that your favorite console didn't have the glorious SQUARE making games for it.

>The point isn't framerate, anyway. The point is graphical quality

>>734637
>How can you honestly say Crash looks better than Bad Fur Day or Perfect Dark?
Way to change the objective.

>>734637
After all - GTA: San Andreas is the shittiest game ever made because it's framerate was terrible on the PS2.

Ah, I mean none of the modern GTA games are any good, since they have suck-ass framerates on consoles.

Shadow of the Collossus? Total suck-fest. Who cares about HDR lighting when the framerate hovers around 15fps disguised by motion blurring.

I'm being sarcastic, but the fact remains that modern games haven't magically attained better framerates, either. Games like Far Cry 3 run at FIFTEEN FRAMES PER SECOND during certain cutscenes. Actually, ALL of them, on consoles.

>>727514
PD has got nothing on PC FPS of the time.

>>734490
>Crash Bandicoot looked way better than any 64 game.
>Shows N64 games which looked better.
>Denial.

>>727494
I did play Tony Hawk 3.

On PS2.

>>734661
>PD has got nothing on PC FPS of the time.
Such as? What do PC FPS games do which PD doesn't? Online multiplayer doesn't count.

>>734676
>On PS2.
Sucks to be you. I played it on PC.

But the N64\PS1 versions were significantly different, anyway.

>>734673
Maintain a framerate well above 15fps all the time?

>>734549
Because it is unfortunately overshadowed by it's deluded ports.

If you didn't like Rareware, the N64 was not for you. Simple as that. They made the best games on the system, no matter how good some of the the other devs were. Some might argue the SNES was the same.

>>734687
I played it on PC and Xbox as well, but I figured I'd just mention the platform I played it on the most frequently.

>>734695
>Maintain a framerate well above 15fps all the time?
That doesn't actually reflect upon the game's quality. It runs at 60fps on emulators and the Xbox 360. The game's framerate is problematic, but it doesn't diminish the game's brilliance. Plus, AFAIK, the PAL version is a lot better.

>>734673
They play much faster and smoother. Not just framerate (which even on older computers will net you over 100 FPS), but the actual gameplay. And you can actually jump, which is a major mechanic.

They're also a lot more intense and competitive. There are still pro-level Quake 3 tournaments to this day, despite being a decade and a half old game.

>>734731
>I played it on PC and Xbox as well, but I figured I'd just mention the platform I played it on the most frequently.
*friendly back slap* No harm intended. It was a great game, on every platform. The N64 version was pretty decent, though. I liked it a lot more than the PS1 version. They were both built on the TH2 engine.

That said, the N64 version had staggeringly low draw distance.

>>734752
>They're also a lot more intense and competitive. There are still pro-level Quake 3 tournaments to this day, despite being a decade and a half old game.
Perfect Dark is not an arena shooter.

This dispute always gets complicated because PD and games like Quake exist in entirely different genres. Is GTA a platforming game because you can jump up and down? No. Perfect Dark is an FPS, but it's a very different genre.

>you can actually jump, which is a major mechanic.

Perfect Dark didn't so much "lack" jumping as Rareware chose not to allow it. It was a design decision.

Also, Perfect Dark is a singleplayer game first, multiplayer game second. It's predecessor, Goldeneye, had multiplayer added at the last minute by one guy, without the permission of the bosses, in 6 weeks.

Perfect Dark places greater emphasis on stuff like cooperative than competitive play.

>>734752
Look, you have a point... but I'm not sure if multiplayer even counts, since it was an afterthought of Perfect Dark's design.

>>734673
Mouse aim.
The N64 stick was shit and aiming with it was shittier.

>>734724
>They made the best games on the system, no matter how good some of the the other devs were.
Definitely not. Shit the two best games on the system were first party games, Mario64 and OoT. After that excitebike64 and wipeout64 shit all over everything rare has made on the N64. Rare had two poor shooters which got dick sucking by console gamers for having an analog stick. Mediocre to awful platformers. Shit fighting game. A crappy demolition game and some junk racers.
They're great at making games the way 'Bethesda' is great at making games, they aren't. There's just a lot of retards who suck their dick.

>Some might argue the SNES was the same.
Some might argue that and they'd lose that argument.

>>734796
>Mouse aim.
>The N64 stick was shit and aiming with it was shittier.
You know, emulators take care of that issue. So it doesn't actually affect the game itself. Only the platform it's played on.

>>734775
>This care doesn't "lack" tires, it was just a design decision not to include them. That does not mean it's less of a car.

I fucking love Perfect Dark so much, so much, but that's a dumb argument man

>>733876
YOU GUTTA BE CAREFUL!

>>734805

Emulators can't fix the godawful framerate issues.

>>734798
>Rareware are great at making games the way 'Bethesda' is great at making games, they aren't. There's just a lot of retards who suck their dick.

You are seriously deluded. Firstly, Rareware had the best selling game on the SNES. They also had the best selling games on the N64. Their games were the product of the best game designers the UK had available combined with Dream Team access to N64 hardware documentation combined with genius game design. Also, Rareware were made up of several individual teams. Many of whom kinda hated each other in a friendly way. So people who imagine Rare as a single group of devs misunderstand the company. The split of devs allowed them to make AAA FPS\TPS
\Racing\Platform games at once.

>>734820
>Emulators can't fix the godawful framerate issues.
Then why is it running at 30-60fps on this emulator? Most people probably don't know this, but there's a setting called Counter Factor on N64 emus like PJ64. By default, it's set to 2. Setting it to 1 allows the game to run as fast as the system will allow, essentially overclocking it. Since GE\PD are capped at 50-60FPS depending on whether you've got PAL or NTSC, they'll generally run at full speed.

>>734831
>Rareware had the best selling game on the SNES.
Some will argue Super Mario World sold more. But it was bundled with the system, so doesn't actually count.

>>734798
>not liking battletoas

>>734810
Wave Race is one of those games that make me wanna try a jetski myself. still haven't done that.

I think they had one in bay watch too. fuck.

>>734805
Uh a game is meant to be best played on the console it was made for. If it sucks on its console it sucks. Games weren't meant to be emulated. If they couldn't get it to work on the N64 controller then it sucks.

People tend to forget Acclaim were a Dream Team dev, too. They were the ones who used 640x480 rendering first, with Turok 2. I'd argue Shadow Man was just as good as stuff like Tomb Raider on PS1, and it had the advantage of lots of voice acting. (Although SM was actually by their UK branch, not the Texan one who made Turok.)

>>734841

Emulating the game as fast as possible might result in 60fps in a screenshot but would make the game unplayably fast.

>>734854
>If they couldn't get it to work on the N64 controller then it sucks.
It works fine on the N64 controller. It's only a certain group of people who can't handle south-paw analogue who get bitchy.

Oh, and the people too lazy to go into the options menu and try the different control schemes.

>>734850
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YesaB9K2WU

because of WR64 I just watched a real jetski race. I nearly shat myself from laughter. it's damn great to watch.

in my area you can't even get one and train with them. but then again I don't live in the u.s..

>>734876

...and this god-tier game.

Why does nobody remember Forsaken 64? Fun botmatches, fun split-screen, great music, meh campaign but whatever.

>>734885
Actually, IIRC it doesn't speed the game up like that. Rather, it overclocks the CPU, which makes the game run at a playable framerate while eliminating slowdown.

>>734831
>Rareware had the best selling game on the SNES.
And you're seriously a fucking nitwit.
Gb2/v/ with your shit fallacies.

>>734848
Battletoads was in the Arcade and on the NES. That and snake rattle and roll were pretty much the highlight of their developments and the only really decent game they've made. Battlemaniacs also is kind of shit compared to the NES game, it does look better though obviously.
Battletoads vs doubledragon sucked dick.

>>734885
>Emulating the game as fast as possible might result in 60fps in a screenshot but would make the game unplayably fast.
No. Perfect Dark and Goldeneye are fully capable of running at 60fps natively. Rareware, being British, didn't do the weird Japanese thing where the game's timings are locked to the framerate. The game runs as fast as the hardware will allow it to, and is capped at 50-60fps. The only difference is it gets smoother. However, the game does have a thing where it tends to settle to 30fps even on an emulator. So there are custom builds of the 1964 emulator which try to force it to 60fps at all times.

>>734374
No. I had an N64 in my house and i had around 4 friends who also had the consoles. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark just seemed like pretty weak FPS's compared to what i had already played on the pc. And overall the games just controlled like shit.

>>734907

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrVcJ0J-K3w

Holy FUCK, the soundtrack is even better than I remembered.

The problem ATM is actually the fucked up timing systems of N64 emulators not overclocking the system properly. So basically, on my system, PD tends to hover around 50fps on the NTSC version instead of hitting 60. The game is still smooth and all the timings are correct, but if you've got an emulator custom tuned to PD, it runs at 60fps, which is the game's refresh rate, basically.

>>734907
I played it recently. really liked it. but you need training to get a hold of the controls. sometimes I forget where to go.

>>734924
>And overall the games just controlled like shit.
Which control setting did you use? The default 1.1 setting is almost universally recognised to be casual rubbish. 1.2 is the best.

And how was it weak? Please tell me you weren't judging it on competitive multiplayer. How was it weak in singleplayer or even cooperative? The size of the levels, the excellent music, sounds, and voice acting, the flexible gameplay, the weapons, the lighting effects... how was it weak?

At the time (2000), wasn't Half Life kinda the peak of FPS design?

One big advantage PD had over HL, IMO, was it supported much larger maps, and said maps had more dynamic content. HL is a series of tiny maps linked by load breaks, and mostly pre-baked objects. PD has huge explorable worlds teeming with destroyable objects. Glass, computers, furniture, lighting, it can all be destroyed.

Which game had better AI? Well, it depends on your view of what makes good AI. I felt PD's AI felt more like real human beings. PD managed to add in elements of emotion, something missing from HL's AI. AI got scared, got angry, surrendered when cornered, all that sort of thing.

Air Base was one of PD's best missions.

"WE'RE TAKING OVER!"

I love the AI in the mission, too. The Air Hostess surrenders when she sees you've got a weapon, but runs the moment your back is turned.

Plus if guards see you with a weapon while wearing her outfit, they ask, confused, where you got that thing.

And if you push your luck, they start shooting. That "fuzzy" AI was great. It made the game feel more alive.

I just cannot stand how slow Perfect Dark runs. Even on low res it just never reaches a decent framerate.

>>734992
I would argue Deus Ex over Half Life, but then again, Deus Ex isn't strictly an FPS.

>>726718

True dat, there will never be a platofmer game where you have better control over your character than Mario in Mario 64.

>>735043
Ew not Deus Ex

>>735040
>I just cannot stand how slow Perfect Dark runs.
Were you playing NTSC or PAL?

Although they both have sluggish framerates, the NTSC version is generally considered chuggier.

>>735063
Really, you're gonna be that guy?

>>735063
>Ew not Deus Ex
Deus Ex and PD are strangely similar games. Both have greys, both were released in 2000, and both are cyberpunk FPS games. But I'd argue PD has better animation, AI, combat, and even textures than Deus Ex.

>>735070
PAL.
Maybe im just too spoiled by technology, i don't remember complaining about it in the past.

>>735086
>Maybe im just too spoiled by technology, i don't remember complaining about it in the past.
Look, anon. I agree with you that PD's framerate is chuggy. But... I do think the brain adjusts after an hour or so. I had the same experience with SotC. For the first hour I was pissed off at how stuttery the camera was. But then I realised that it was still playable.

It seems we've really gone backwards, though. Many modern FPS games have really bad framerates on consoles. Battlefield 3 and Far Cry 3 come to mind.

I always found both GE and PD to be pretty boring. UT and Q3A were just a lot more fun to me, primarily because I really don't care about single player in FPS. And I like to go fast and have my reflexes tested, which those games still do.

>>735129
>I really don't care about single player in FPS.
That's most likely the problem. If you don't like singeplayer, you're not going to like singleplayer games. If you don't like cars, you're not going to like Gran Turismo.

>>735139
Well, the problem is mostly that I found the gameplay to be dull.

GE was a good recreation of the movie, I'll give it that. But I just couldn't stand how slow it was.

Anons. Chris Seavor, lead dev on Bad Fur Day, and general Rareware guru, has laid the smackdown to all those people who decry cartridges. Today. In 2013.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seamless... Can only do that on cartridge, can't you?
Because... the thing about cartridges is it's solid state.
Which means you can just pull stuff of it like there's no tomorrow.
So it's actually a much more advanced, better medium... *laughs* than discs. Can't have as much shit on them... Oh, well, you can, but it's very expensive. But as a medium, cartridge is FUCKING streets ahead in superiority to any Blu Ray, or disc, or whatever the fucking shit they come up with. Including hard drives.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't believe me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hx7DL74nPs#t=364s

>>735152
Hey, at least Sony recognizes.

Too bad nobody is making games for the Vita.

>>735153
>But I just couldn't stand how slow it was.
It was the world's first FPS stealth game. I don't think expecting it to be fast was realistic. Personally PD is a much better game, though.

The thing about PD, though, is it made shooting secondary. If you try to play Perfect Dark on hard using an emulator with twitch skills, you'll still be slaughtered by the AI. You have to use the environment. Slam doors in people's faces. Run away. Hide behind the nearest sofa.

Also, PD doesn't really have any bullet sponge enemies. And its combat is less visceral than GE. I do wonder if that had something to do with certain members of Rareware being less than comfortable with guns and killing.

Turok.

>>735163
Oh, I played PD as well. I'm just not a stealth kind of guy. It's not fun to me.

>>735165
>Turok.
Turok 3 is best Turok. Acclaim's swan song. Although Turok 2 had awesome graphics, and awesome guns, it had shocking fog and a terrible framerate. Turok 3, while it's basically a Half Life clone, tried very hard to fix the problems in Turok 2. Mostly, they succeeded, even if the bosses are stupid, the weapons not as good as Turok 2, and the AI thick as bricks.

>>735163
>If you try to play Perfect Dark on hard using an emulator with twitch skills, you'll still be slaughtered by the AI.
wat

You can change the controls so it's more like PC FPS; it makes the game a cakewalk.

>>735152
In a sense, Nintendo was just ahead of the curve. CDs as a medium for streaming game data was a short lived experiment which ultimately gave way to HDD installs.

>>735186
>it makes the game a cakewalk.
I've played the game with mouse and keyboard. I beat Halo on Legendary. And I still find certain missions on PD nightmarish without quicksave. Carrington: Institute Defence and the bonus missions Main SOS, Mr Blonde's Revenge, and War, especially. The game might seem easy on the first few missions, but it soon reveals its true colours. Air Base on Perfect? Even with mouse aim, it's still hard if you get cornered at any point.

>>735186
I remember a thread where an anon was asking why PD was so easy on Xbox 360.

Then a few hours later he apologised, saying he hadn't realised it got much harder later on.

The first 4 missions are pretty easy. After that, the difficulty starts spiking. The Skedar might seem slow and stupid, but when you've got more than one coming from multiple directions, and the only way to kill them is with a charged Mauler shot or by managing to hit their exposed tail?

It's not a cakewalk.

>>735152
ignoring the whole part where having them in an actual affordable format sends their capacity and speed to shit

Nah you aren't the only one but I still love the 64 because of the 4 controller ports and games like Mario Kart 64. There's no other ubiquitous 4-player console from that era... unless you count the Dreamcast. And non-/vr/troopers just won't be down to play, say, Power Stone 2 like they will be down to play Mario Kart 64, or Goldeneye, or Perfect Dark, or Diddy Kong Racing, or...

>>735203
>I beat Halo on Legendary.
Everyone has. The hardest thing about it is having enough patience or getting a lobotomy to sit through it.

>>735218
>an actual affordable format
It lowers profit margins. But today, flash memory is relatively cheap. And it wasn't THAT expensive in the N64 era. Cartridge size increased as memory prices fell.

>>735203
>>735212
I want to prove you guys wrong, but my emulator keeps crashing on the second level. For the record, I've owned the cartridge since it came out and have beaten it before I was a cool kid that bought strategy guides through Nintendo Power, though, so maybe that counts as cheating. I just like playing it without blur-o-vision.

You may be right, though. Maybe it's harder than I remember.

>>726672

That fucking stunt course.

I twice paid out the ass to play that game on that hotel room N64 controller just to dick around on that fucking stunt course.

I've heard the Vita's read speeds are actually pretty shitty considering how fast solid state memory is capable of being, as seen with PC SSD systems.

Wasted opportunity, if you ask me. They're designing their games just like PS3 games, from the looks of it - storing shit in RAM instead of streaming it super-fast from the solid state memory. No doubt partially due to the fact the games have to be compatible with external memory cards, which by nature aren't as fast as a dedicated solid state solution like the N64's. Yes, the n64 didn't have to stream GIGABYTES of data, but the principle is the same.

>>735235
Which emulator are you using, anon?

>>726672
>nodinagreement.gif