/vr/ - Retro Games

why is 4chan die?

>>7261881
They outdid it because people wanted computers to do computer stuff, not just for games.
>>7261890
4chan is "die" because people like you are still on it

>>7262060
I mean, aside from the nice BASIC OS and keyboard, C64 could pull off impressive sprite scaling and smooth scrolling rendering despite the low clock speed.

10 PRINT "OP IS GAY"
20 GOTO 10
RUN

That's why

>>7261881
> outdid the nes

ahaha as if

>>7262132
Technically, yes. It had the superior graphic processing capability.

>>7262132
Try the NES versions of The Law of the West, Ikari Warriors, Spy vs Spy, and Commando. They suck balls.

>>7261881
I don't think there is a single game worth playing on the C64.

>>7262181

>>7262179
Why there's four right there (although you will maybe nitpick that two are arcade ports and blah blah blah MAME). Anyway...

>Lode Runner
>Archon
>Boulder Dash
>Jumpman
>Montezuma's Revenge
>Ghostbusters (the NES version of that is also AVGN b8)
>Pirates!
>Maniac Mansion
>Zak McKracken
>Wasteland
>Gateway to Apshai
>Alter Ego
>Neuromancer
>SSI RPGs
Among some.

>>7262181
Turrican was a Beast

Meantime, be wary of specific Eurogames like Turrican and Flimbo's Quest that are just glorified demos.

>>7262203
>list is nothing but NTSC rubbish with Atari 2600-tier audiovisuals because NTSC devs couldn't code

>>7262226
Phahaha.

>>7261881
PC Gaming has always been more popular than console games.

People pretend PCs are niche, when it's the opposite. Consoles have been the niche market.

>>7262203
Great Gianna Sisters was superior to SMB too.

>>7262226
>Flimbo's Quest
Yes, it's got nice graphics but didnt play very good.
>Turrican
Turrican 2 is unironically my favorite 3rd gen platformer ever.

>>7262240
>Great Gianna Sisters was superior to SMB too
lol

>>7262237
Actually true. The sales of IBM PC, C64, ZX Spectrum, Atari 8 bit, Apple II, and other home computers combined beat the NES. My dad bought an IBM PC clone in the mid 80s instead of a NES to play Tetris.

>>7262241
Gameplay-wise not really. I will grant you it's programmed vastly better and not plagued by hundreds of bugs and graphical glitches. Seriously, SMB is held together with glue and Popsicle sticks.

>>7262203
the NES version of Maniac Mansion is the only version that isn't a stinky butthole

>>7262249
SMB is 32K

>>7262249
>yeah this game is a shitty knock off but uhhhh the original game is insanely buggy (big lie) so it's better

>>7262241
Yes. Fuck water levels and fuck bouncing fire balls. GGS had homing missiles instead of fireballs, and its much better. It also had more detailed and varied sidescrolling levels to make up for the lack of water levels. Can't get better than that.

>>7262261
>>7262249
That's more of an issue with the NES's hardware than anything. Also they had to rely on some extreme programming tricks to fit the game into 40k of ROM which is why it's so buggy. I honestly don't know how they did it.

Not even Master System could pull this off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t6qLuLq_hA

>>7262235
Yeha you're right. NTSC guys were better at making actual games instead of sprite multiplexer demos disguised as a game.

>>7262073
>doesn't know the 64 couldn't scroll
lmao. Are you over 30 or something?

I'm sorry, I don't speak arpeggio.

Found this at an antique mall for 80

>>7262969
Cleaned it up the other night. Board is mint and no dents in plastics

>>7262979
Idk why 4chan flipped this

>>7262767
>not knowing VSP
zoomzoom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcfFEecaYPc

name me some classic commodore games that anyone who isn't a 45 year old boomer plays today... oh wait...

>>7263014
i'm mid 20's and I'm playing the rpgs on it like ultima and bards tale.

>>7263082
You're crazy bro. Can't you play them in much simpler ways?

>>7261881
By being a computer doing computer things, meaning it can do boring (but important) office and accounting stuff.

>>7262273
>those very few drab and dull colors
>the crude dithering and overall lack of texture to graphics
>that low resolution
>the choppy framerate
>no sound effects during gameplay
>have to play with a keyboard or awful joystick
That's technically impressive for the C64, but there's far more fun games on the NES:
https://youtu.be/IXlatlbS2Sw
https://youtu.be/c2LTcQwmOV4
https://youtu.be/DIcOjUaf5P8
https://youtu.be/2-z8xXA_v8k
These games don't just look and sound great, they're fast and fun.

Then, looking at the TurboGrafx-16, which is really just a roided out 8-bit machine, we have fun things like these:
https://youtu.be/BCkEtDTN4ZE
https://youtu.be/OquO7XKHDT4

>>7262181
Wowwww. Been playing c64 since 1990, still find great games all the time. Have you even tried it you retard?

>>7262254
Worst version

>>7262990
>not knowing the meme
zoomzoom indeed

Plays like ass like every PC game of the game

>>7263632
>those very few drab and dull colors
>the crude dithering and overall lack of texture to graphics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrMk9RyCWKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFMcvOpPuy8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkC7yqlHOD0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSwJx15vq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHtF4AoKAJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3luUb7WEm7k

Say you what?

>>7263632
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS9z2nU4dcE

But then have you seen what the Master System version looks like?

>>7263082
The NES has ports of those too, they suck.

>>7262240
>Yes, it's got nice graphics but didnt play very good.

It played just fine. What exactly is wrong with it?

>>7263976
Yeah, it has more than 3 colours on the screen unlike the C64 version.

>>7261881
by kamikaze'ing the industry. I and countless others got ours out the trunk of a car for next to nothing.

>>7264063
What? The Master System has a bigger color palette because it has a three years newer chipset.

>>7264082
*graphics chip
Which is also mated to a sound chip that's three years older than the SID and sucks ass.

The Master System has gacky colors anyway because RGB never looks good at low color depths.

>>7263967
Law Of The West definitely looks better on C64, though it also looks like the devs weren't even trying with the NES (Famicom) port. Perhaps it's an earlier title? People weren't exactly doing Super Mario Bros. for the Famicom in its very early days.
Commando looks pretty dull visually on the C64 (certainly next to the NES), though it appears to have good speed, which you want for action games.

Arkanoid looks like it should, and seems to play right (and overall seems comparable to the NES version), though it still has that drab and muted palette of the C64, which is one that I never found endearing. The NES definitely could do a lot more with color, including palette tricks, whereas the Commodore seems stuck with its one palette, Law Of The West there being a good example of working with those limitations and employing lots of dithering.

>>7263991
Probably because those games were kind of married to having a keyboard. I always figured that the NES could have used a keyboard peripheral for some of those games.

>>7264218
>Law Of The West there being a good example of working with those limitations and employing lots of dithering.
Protip: Is in bitmap mode which allows more freedom of color placement.

As for Arkanoid, the NES version doesn't even have the intro sequence (which is in every other port of the game) because they were cheap fucks and used a ROM that was too small to be able to fit it.

Now I agree the C64 Double Dragon is pretty shameful and there's no excusing it, although the NES one isn't even really a port of the arcade game, but a "reimagining."

>>7262969
That's probably the best home conversion of Centipede. Do be careful of that power supply though, they can be...problematic.

>>7262235
Probably the only person in existence who looks worse skinny than he does fat.

>>7262179
ikari warriors and commando suck balls no matter what version it is

>Ikari Warriors
Was programmed by Micronics
>Commando
Was the first in-house Capcom NES game and they had no clue what they were doing

Bit unfair to bully those games, no?

>>7262969
Dude on the c64 discord told me about the atom psu, I purchased that. But thanks for the headsup!

>>7264312
>>7264518
Meant for him

>>7263632
>uuuuhhhh why does a game set in concrete jungles and deserts have drab colours? why is the stable framerate so choppy? why is the graphics so 3D and not retro?
>w-wheres my bing big wahooo? i only play funny and wacky and colourful bingbing wahoos and consume basedlent for breakfast!

>>7262990
That's just regular scrolling, it's not VSP.

>>7263976
Looks pretty decent actually.

>>7264091
Yet the Master System version can have sound effects during play, which the C64 version probably could have had, but opted not to.

>>7264650
Higher saturation is better suited for low resolutions and limited palettes like these, makes for sharper silhouettes and the game doesn't just look better, it's easier to read at a quick glance.

Also seethe, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usiaujwjv4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAvsVEiwVhg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7J7FhbxeoI

How does the ZX Spectrum manage twice the framerate of the NES and Master System here and gets the camera up and down pan while it was too much for them to handle?

>>7265009
That's a question I'd also love to know the answer to.

>>7261881
by doing stuff outside of games.

>>7264893
>Looks pretty decent actually.
It looks like a generic shmup in 2D space, looks and plays nothing like the arcade version.

>>7262235
>because NTSC devs couldn't code

I can't believe what I'm actually reading. Are you a fucking inbred dipshit retard, or are you just baiting with the stupidest fucking post I've ever seen on purpose?

>>7262203
Avoid The Noid is stupid but fun.

>>7262203
Not even the best C64 games. You completely left out Ninja.

>>7265153
Had you even seen the US and European versions of Ikari Warriors? Seriously.

>>7262969
Get a 1541 Ultimate as well.

>>7262235
Japan will like to have a word with you.

>>7261881
Not true, it only outsold the Sega Master System as the NES was over 60 million sales.

Nintendo almost certainly far exaggerated the NES/Famicom's total sales. However up to 20 million is quite possible.

>>7265745
No, it's legit.

It still floors me how Euros could be so consistently bad at designing arcade/action games. Even many of their console releases are bleh.

>>7265760
no arcade tradition. just about all arcade games were American or Japanese. Europe had nothing thus no basis for proper game design outside trying to poorly recreate Japanese arcade games.

yeah they've never been good at electronics stuff. Europe has never even produced an indigenous game console.

Is a c64 even worth getting these days? Most of the games are poor man versions of arcade titles.

>>7265760
Don't bully Euros too much. They were always in the receiving end.
>many games don't get pal ports like Super Mario RPG
>Censorship even harder than the US. Especially G*rmany
>PAL 50Hz
yikes.

>>7265773
Try not playing bad Eurogames. The RPG and adventure stuff is what you should be doing.

>>7265760
>tfw arcade games and pinball tables were declared gambling in the 80s
>tfw incredibly difficult to find either growing up
>tfw almost never ever got to play arcade games or pinball as a kid
>tfw had to make do with Space Cadet Pinball and once every few years seeing some arcade games on a ferry
I hate this stupid faggot country, and I hate Europe.

>>7265713
>>7265745
>muh sales
It's the best designed 8 bit system because of its technical capabilities. It could do a lot of impressive things, even the ones newer systems like the NES and SMS couldn't do, at a very low price, about comparable to the NES..

>>7265762
Yeah, 99% of the time you had to look towards Japanese and American games for fast arcade fun.

>>7262132
> c64 - best selling home computer of all time, listed in the record books
> nes - was bought by poor people that couldn't afford a computer or knew how to use one
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>7266271
Man, the inferiority complex of C64 babbies is cute. In reality, you should have had not just a C64, but an NES and an MS, otherwise you just weren't serious about games.

>>7262073
>C64 wut
>pull off impressive sprite scaling and smooth scrolling rendering despite the low clock speed.
Just how did Super Nintendo do it?

>>7261881
>why is this orange better than this apple?
why is this board full of retards?

>>7266425
>console warriors for childs toy that came out after the computer that makes him seethe
>calls his elders babies
wew lad

>>7266428
The snes was inferior to the genesis that came before it in every way.

>>7264091
Still better than a $450 EGA graphics card for colours and pc had the beeper. Master system gave great value for graphics in the 80's.

>>7265009
sometimes those computers can really beat the consoles, another one is chase hq. The computers can write straight to video memory while the master system has to use the cpu port pin so its slower to write but once its written its fine.

>>7265760
Wat, 80s up to 1994 american console games didn't even have working jumping and collision physics. In comparison zool is an excellent game.

>>7263014
My cousin was playing the spectrum games on rare replay and having fun.

>>7261881
C64 were allowed to take wierd risks such as deciding to use arcade size sprites or backgrounds even if the machine is not suitable so you had a fair fews games that didn't work but also a decent number that go beyond the typical console game.

Consoles on the other hand had minimum requirements, submit a game to sega that is technically impressive but only because it uses glitches to achieve and they would have asked you to fix it before making the cartridges for you.

I think console gamers would have been less forgiving of the compromises in r type on c64 if it was on console vs the master systerm version which doesn't have parallax but less jank if you will.

I ment to say how did they do it, it was the developers.

>>7266471
Except for the lack of colors, the lack of controller buttons, and the metallic sound.

>>7266456
Were you just poor?

>>7266484
>C64 were allowed to take wierd risks such as deciding to use arcade size sprites or backgrounds even if the machine is not suitable so you had a fair fews games that didn't work but also a decent number that go beyond the typical console game.

With arcade ports, often the publisher would insist on that so it looked good in magazine screenshots. If the actual game itself was compromised as a result, oh well. One example is the Spectrum Street Fighter II which could have run better without the huge, super-detailed sprites but they wanted them to look good on the box.

>>7263632
I just realized that the blue player looks like Aniki

>>7266484
R-Type was done by Manfred Trenz but they gave him only 7 weeks to finish so he didn't have time to code a sprite multiplexer and whatnot.

>>7266471
>inferior my ass
Genesis is irrelevant.
>>7266492
The super nes can actual metallic sounds if use in right way.

>>7266042
>goal post moving

Often arcade ports that weren't well suited for the system either while console devs usually didn't try something they though wouldn't work, which is why for example they never put SF2 on the NES.

Console manchildren have and will continue to be filtered by computer games.

>>7267346
>not having both

>>7265697
I ended up buying an sd2iec and a fastload reloaded. I think this may work better than buying a 1541. But you know my ass will buy one if the antique mall has one.

>>7267462
nah you don't want to deal with that shit+35 year old floppy disks. the SD2IEC is fine.

>>7261881
>outdid the NES and Master System
lol except for the part that actually matters:
software

>>7267550
If you want to play a lot of identical platformers, shmups, and jarpigs since that's a good 80% of the library on both systems

>>7267612
>If you want to play a lot of identical platformers, shmups
Those are actual games not your stupid PC autism simulators.
>and jarpigs
Ok those aren't games. We don't defend or condone those.

>>7267612
>If you want to play a lot of identical platformers
id play an infinite amount of identical platformers for the rest of my miserable life, so long as it meant id never have to play some shitty commie64 port of a good game, or worse, play a game where "up" is jump see: every commie platformer in ever

>>7267634
>or worse, play a game where "up" is jump see: every commie platformer in ever

You were told to avoid mediocre Europlatformers.

>>7267632
So tell us what is a game then. We'd like to know.

>>7267642
first off, kys weeb. secondly a game is, y'know, a platformer, a beat em up, a shmup, anything with actual reflex based playing not interactive storybooks or jarpig cancer.

>>7267634
Jumpman uses the button to jump and so does Montezuma's Revenge and Miner 2049er. I'm sure plenty of others too.

>>7267638'
>avoid yurojank
thats like 95% of the commies library: shitty speccy gaems made over the course of a weekend, coded by 1 or 2 bongs with no standards
you just explained why no one really gives a fuck about the commie anymore, unless they used to have one

>>7267612
>if you want to play things which are actually videogames

>>7267680
>thats like 95% of the commies library

Um, no it's not.

https://www.lemon64.com/games/votes_list.php

I only count nine Europlatformers in the 100 games here.

>>7267673
>Jumpman uses the button
>THE button
see this was exactly the problem
only one button
if that button was needed for an attack/action, that meant up was gonna be jump 99% of the time, unless they got creative which was often even worse, as then you have stupid shit like up+button=jump
the tragic irony here is that it was a motherfucking computer, so not having enough buttons shouldnt have been an issue in the slightest, with a whole keyboard going un-utilized

also, the master system port of montezumas was way better
ill give you miner 2049er tho, i used to play the shit out of that one

>>7267659
>>7267691
>>7267632
Back to your containment thread.

>>>/doomgeneral/

>>7267710
Jumpman never used Up to jump. In most levels you just walk around and press the joystick button to jump. Exception being the level where you throw spears at dragons and the other where you shoot at UFOs and don't jump in those.

>>7267710
>also, the master system port of montezumas was way better
Same game, just better graphics. At least they didn't horribly mutilate it like happened with the NES Boulder Dash.

>>7267732
>Same game, just better graphics
thats not nothing tho
commie simply couldnt have handled all those colors simultaneously. not with all the bit-level sorcery in the world

>NES Boulder Dash
lmao

>>7267729
oh i wasnt implying you did it in jumpman
just that the lack of other buttons led to the issue of "up as jump" in many other games

>>7267753
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORa7cPi9WdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-h8zLM2jA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToSe_CUG0F4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edsdNM2vJW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2NSJ-SOI_M

Really it's the same game in every version. The Master System adds nothing but cosmetics.

>>7267753
>just that the lack of other buttons led to the issue of "up as jump" in many other games
As far as I can tell, that was mostly in Europlatformers which are usually shit and not worth playing anyway.

>>7267775
>Really it's the same game in every version
and thank god
such a simple, but awesome, game
id be butthurt if they tried to get too fancy with it

i still really like the SMS ports colors/graphics
hell, i like the SMSs whole color palette to begin with, so maybe im just biased
but i stand by that being the best looking version of that game. i agree that its shallow to judge a game by its graphics, but as you said, its functionally the same game, so graphics are the only real deciding factor in this instance. and thats by far the most attractive looking port imo

>>7267805
I've mentioned elsewhere that some other games like Shamus seemed to change considerably in every version.

>>7266981
Not my fault you're too retarded to understand OP's point.

>>7267714
>Back to your containment thread.

https://pastebin.com/rerxEV5K C64 games (holy fuck this thing has a lot)

>>7266496
>buys the more expensive device
>were you just poor
zoomerlogic

>using poverty as an argument
Why am I getting trannypunk 2077 shill threads vibe around here?

>>7262203
Boulder Dash NES was god tier

>>7265009
By looking and sounding like shit

>>7268612
Oh my no it wasn't. A total butchery and clearly made for young children. I don't think it was a source port either since nothing really works like the original games--the enemy AI patterns and everything are way off.

ok

>>7261881
appealing to europe, a population twice as large as the US.

>>7262273
This is more impressive than the Mega Drive version.

>>7268562
>he can only afford the low cost option
lmaoing at you

>>7269352
>he can't afford reading comprehension
cringing at you

bump

ok

>>7262249
>SMB1
>graphical glitches
what the fuck are you talking about? you have to actually look really hard to find bugs in SMB1. that, and SMB1 has actual physics unlike GGS.

>>7266471
Lol no, SNES was easily the more powerful console.

>>7271841
https://themushroomkingdom.net/bugs/smb

It has tons of them.

>>7271845
The SNES had superior graphics and sound, but its CPU was a piece of shit.
That's why so many 3rd party devs augmented it with additional chips.

>>7271846
>most of these require the player to do something extraordinary for them to happen
wow

tell me again about how turrican on the C64 doesn't look super fucking buggy too when sprites keep getting left behind when you destroy enemies (you know, the thing you're supposed to actually be doing)

>>7271851
>Turrican
Odd game to bring up out of nowhere since it wasn't mentioned at all in >>7262249

>>7271857
same programmer. i ran into similar bugs in GGS with some lines appearing out of nowhere on the screen.

>>7271846
Or the fact that NES games in general suffer from loads of flicker and slowdown.

>>7271867
It was originally only supposed to sell for 66 USD.

ITT: A lot of people who've never tried NES programming

You sure as hell wouldn't say the thing is better than C64 or the Master System if you tried to code for it.

>>7271898
ITT: one guy who wrote a program in basic for the C64 once makes fun of the ones who didn't.
Different systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I worked on games for both the C64 and NES and can assure you there are certain things the NES is much better at. I'm sorry you tried to code for it and had problems. But those problems are with your skill set not the system.

>complaining about very early famicom ports made by shitty developers
well no shit sherlock, everyone knows they are shit, every console/comupter has their share of shitty ports of arcade/popular games. plus many of these that are always brought up are always most obscure ones that were japanese only nobody played before emulators become popular.
>pretending that zx spectrum games looks anything but dogshit and play at 5fps or are even playable in the first place
nice cherrypicking faggots

>>7272065
Hi assembly language LARPer.

>>7273053

>C64 shitposting is the new speccy shitposting

where is the c64 zniggy port

>>7273209
The C64 would be too powerful for Zniggy. Was Zniggy ever finished by the way?

Yes it was.

>>7263967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjv2QinpozY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bupAR6Rbn3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZk5GGtvjr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtCqZ62FLHE

And this.

bump

>>7273209
The C64 has plenty of native zniggy tier shitware. Since it was actually possible to develop for, every tom dick and harry did. And nearly everything that came out of the UK was zniggy tier anyway. They'd port some arcade shit to the spectrum and then port that to the C64.

>>7262142
nigga it just had more ram, that's it

c64 suckssss

>>7275246
That's a pretty big deal actually, the NES has only 2k of rewritable RAM which is incredibly limiting. It makes it hard to do strategy games or anything else with a lot of variables or map data.

>>7275246
RAM was much more important back then than it is now.

The biggest asset the NES has is that with some later-period mappers like MMC3 it can live stream cartridge data, although you can certainly do that on C64 with banked cartridges if you wanted to.

>>7262142
Maybe, but it looks like a roided out 2600 because of the low horizontal resolution unless rendering text.

>>7262179
Oh wow so it had a few bungled Euro games, you disingenuous pole smoker. Now let's see it do Batman: Return of the Joker without pixels wider than your mom, a non grey-and-pastel color palette, with a load time of less than 5 minutes.

>>7275314
The NES has more crisp graphics because of its Japanese origins. Japanese culture is highly visual and has a strong graphic arts tradition so they considered it priority to have graphics where you could have reasonably life-like shapes. When you consider with C64 et al, it was designed by Americans so they didn't really care that much if the graphics looked blocky.

>>7275319
>Oh wow so it had a few bungled Euro games
>The Law of the West
>was made by Accolade
Accolade was not a PAL developer. (^:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accolade_(company)

>>7275319
>Now let's see it do Batman: Return of the Joker

This game is like TMNT: The Manhattan Project in that they try to do too much with the NES's small sprites and have horrible flicker as a result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpV4BIHbseM

29:39

The NES cannot do that at all, not with its 8x8 sprites.

>>7275334
This demo scened up 1 screener with no sound FX surrre is better than Mario 3, Ninja Gaiden 2, Castlevania 3, and Gimmick. Dang, dood.

>>7275339
Who said anything about SMB3?

>>7275346
Who said anything about your dumb game?

>>7275339
>he list a couple of late period games that the NES needed advanced expansion chips to pull off
>he forget that a basic NES by its lonely is only going to do Ice Climber level of games

>>7275334
I'd invite some homebrew fags to port C2 to the NES but it probably wouldn't work too good.

Creatures 2 is punishingly hard, but could be worse. At least there is an actual game in there unlike some tech demo shit like Flimbo's Quest.

>>7275334
The NES could display large sprites somehow by mixing tileset images and sprites. See 36:03 and 55:36.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8UJQB-bNaU

But yeah, only those super dedicated European devs could achieve this.

>>7275681
*achieve this without a mapper cart

>>7275681
>>7275695
Fuck I was wrong. JP used an MMC3 cart.
https://github.com/oliver-charlesworth/nespot/issues/90

Chad64 won again I guess.

>>7275369
again, what the hell is your problem with Flimbo? The fact that you had to figure out levels and spawn points and "hunt" correct enemies instead of being a linear "go from point A to point B" platformer?

>>7275752
It's the epitome of a bad demoscener game with no gameplay beyond a simple collectathon and generic enemies with very limited AI.

Battletoads didn't use any mapper, just some discreet logic to switch the ROM banks. It's entirely using the bare NES hardware...but then again that game was also made by Euros and they actually had to lower the difficulty when it was released in Japan because Hiroshi thought it was too hawd.

>>7276486
>Battletoads didn't use any mapper just some discreet logic to switch the ROM banks
Yeah, that'd be a mapper kiddo

>>7262969
Man, that's a steal. I won two Commodore 64s, a bunch of joysticks/controllers, and a 1702 monitor off of HiBid. I paid $220, including shipping and tax. If everything works, it will still be worth it. . . If. I'm also really concerned that they didnt pack the monitor correctly, we will see. I spoke to the auction house on the phone about packing it. Will post pics for you guys to laugh at if it comes to me fuckareenoed.

>>7275704
MMC3 lets you insta-stream stuff from the cartridge during gameplay. So you can switch in eg. enemy sprites or AI code as you need to. You could do tricks like that on C64 with a banked cartridge like some Ocean games used.

>>7275681
Yes and you can guess the programmers of that game were veteran C64 coders.

>>7275681
The NES's graphics setup is more centered on having lots of small sprites (which is better for shmups) while the C64 has fewer but larger ones (better for platformers).

>>7278016
I thought the NES was better for platformers? By using tiles they could reduce the workload of the CPU which could instead be used to calculate the physics, couldn't they? C64 was better suited for SHMUP, it had far larger shmup games with more enemies on screen and almost zero slowdowns or flickering, it was all streamed directly from the plentiful 64KB RAM with self modifying codes.

I'm not sure how exactly the drawing and physics calculation routines worked on these systems though. That's just my guess. The NES had banking capabilities while the C64 seemed to rely a lot on self modifying codes to save memory space.

>>7278039
They both use tile graphics. The CPU is the same but the NES's is a bit faster and has no decimal mode. However you also can't touch the PPU registers or video memory during the active screem render which is a pretty big limitation.

>>7278039
>The NES had banking capabilities while

It can only "see" 32k of ROM at once while C64 has at least 52k RAM available for code/sound/level data (the remaining 16k will be the graphics data+buffer).

>>7278093
>It can only "see" 32k of ROM at once
Yeah, nah. Newer mapper cartridges were more complex than that. They could swap 8KB chunks of CHR and PRG data instantly and seamlessly to form a continuous image of any indefinite size and scroll the screen at any direction indefinitely. C64's tape drive and floppy drive weren't fast enough to stream data at this speed, and only a few companies bothered to produce carts with banking capabilities, so C64 devs had to rely on self modifying codes to transform the levels and the sprites on the go to overcome the 64KB limitation.

>>7278172
>C64's tape drive and floppy drive weren't fast enough to stream data at this speed
Though there are some games that do load bits of data from the disk on the fly.

>>7278093
The Master System for comparison can see up to 48k.

Ron Gilbert was surprised to learn that they'd been able to fit Maniac Mansion into the NES's memory space considering the difficulty they had fitting it on the C64 which had much more rewritable memory. The answer was in ROM streaming.

>>7278349
Using the 256K MMC1 cart, which had over 4 times the size of C64 memory and 40s KB more capacity than the 2 side floppy disk the C64 port used. Not exactly black magic, and must be quite a lot more expensive to produce.

>much more rewritable memory
Yes, but they didn't need too much rewriteable memory for this port. The MMC1 cart provided battery backed saving.

>>7278420
>and 40s KB more capacity than the 2 side floppy disk the C64 port used

A 1541 disk holds 340k between both sides so is actually a good 84k more space.

The guy who did the C64 port of Prince of Persia said he couldn't do it with a disk game, he needed a banked cartridge. Although in all fairness that was because he used bitmap mode to try and make the port as close to the Apple II original as possible.

>>7278428
>A 1541 disk holds 340k between both sides
By writing the data on track 36-40, which wasn't a recommended method back then. Maniac Mansion used up 240K or less.

>>7278439
It actually is though. The formatted capacity of a 1541 disk is 664 blocks, or 169,984 bytes. So 339,968 bytes total on both sides. And it was safe to use tracks 36-40 on most 1541s, they limited the disk format to 35 tracks because the early units from 1982-83 had alignment issues. Any drive made after the switch to Newtronics mechanisms was fine. If tracks 36-40 are used, then that nets an additional 17k of space per side for a total of 374k.

Occasionally some software did use the extra tracks either for additional space or copy protection purposes.

In DQ1, each bridge in the overworld map marks a different section of the map. When you go over the bridges, it switches in a different set of enemies and you can notice this happening because there's momentary slowdown as you cross them.

>>7277385
Dude, sounds like a sweet package deal. Make sure to get a new psu if you have the black boxes. I guess these things can kill your machine. I ended up getting one of those power supplies from commodore4ever. they have this atom psu which is like super small and I guess outputs correct voltages. And I heard if you don't wanna spend the dosh, you can make your own with a 9v and 5v power supply and joining them together.

>>7275352
Who cares? Either way a far higher quality action game than anything on C64 was delivered to the consumer, on a controller with 4 buttons and no load times.

That cuhrazy demo scene shit is nice to watch and technically interesting and all, but given the choice to play any game, any time, for free and platforms don't matter which are you going with? What I listed or Wizball and The Last Ninja?

>>7279403
>NES controller
>4 buttons
Rather sure 4 buttons wasn't until the SNES.

>>7279403
Given the choice you all would ignore Euro demoshit and go play Bard's Tale or The Law of the West instead (while ignoring the mutilated NES ports of those).

>>7279726
yeah good point. he complain about C64's one button sticks but what happens when you try to port a game designed for a keyboard to a system with two buttons for control.

>>7279403
Wizball is legit though, it's not demoshit like...I forget the name of the game but it had that viking guy going around collecting naked tied up chicks. Mostly just a vehicle to show off bitmap scrolling.

the real C64 classics are games like Alternate Reality, not shit like Hawkeye that Yuro manchildren beat off to.

>>7275352
Eg. ROTJ used a Sunsoft FME-7 which adds (among other things) scanline IRQs so you can do parallax scrolling. Mappers with this capability didn't come along until late in the NES's run which finally allowed it to do what C64 could always do out of the box.

>>7279853
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uHys7Vr-FY
The NES needed cheating and expensive expansion chips to get anywhere near this, and even so, the stock C64 does it better, with more colours, no sprite flickering, and no glitches at the screen borders. Has Nintendo ever made a console that isn't totally one-upped, even by older hardware?

>>7278039
Some of Andrew Braybook's games were insane, he would spend 20 hour workdays trying to figure out how to fit them into 64k of memory without needing to go multiload.

>>7278420
>>7278472
Maniac Mansion on C64 actually uses almost the entire two sides of the disk up.

>>7265773
>Most of the games are poor man versions of arcade titles
What games you referring to specifically?

>>7265784
>>7279812
>>7279726
It's unfortunate that Euro demosceners dominate the C64's historiography and this results in tech demo shit like Turrican getting played up to be a lot more relevant that they were.

>>7261890
There are many reasons why 4chan really sucks nowadays, and is infinetly more bad, and cancerous than it was in the good ol' days. But the OP isnt one of them. The C64 was better than the NES

>>7280101
The NES was better at cartoony platformers due to its Japanese origin, granted. Americans just don't have a visual culture like that and tend to make very dry, nerdy simulation kinds of games.

>>7279726
those are just glorified spreadsheets for nerds they're not real games

>>7263637
Dude is well under the age of 18.

>>7278172
>scroll the screen at any direction indefinitely.
Not really, no. You still had that huge tile map limitation.

>>7275334
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd7NO-bAUmY

The NES would also not be able to make the large fighters with its little sprites.

>>7278172
You can bank stuff all day long but it can still only access 40k of the ROM at any given moment. Just like the Atari 2600 can only "see" 4k.

>>7275752
Every C64 thread he brings up this game like he has some personal grudge with it.
Dude we get it, you don't like Flimbo's Quest. It's time to move the fuck on.

>>7280229
and don't get me wrong, jarpigs aren't real games either.

>>7262240
>>7262241
Now some Japanese or other European can port Giana Sister on FDS.

the Famicom is a very limited machine. it only got the games it did because of mad geniuses at Konami, Square, Nintendo, Capcom etc who were able to do things that shouldn't have even been possible on the hardware.

>>7281326
The FDS was a legit good device though, it was almost as cheap as a tape recorder and could load 40KB data in a few seconds. In comparison, Commodore Datasette was slow and the 1541 was a piece of shit.

>>7281393
FDS was ass though, it only held 112k of data total and ate drive belts like candy. And then it also permitted insane amounts of piracy.

>>7279947
If a banked cartridge is used, a C64 is about as capable as an NES paired with MMC3.

>>7278039
Self-modifying code was not uncommon on a lot of computer games and it permits you to save space by allowing routines to be recycled.

>>7266425
> c64
like im gonna play my action games with a one button joystick and keyboard, LMFAO

>>7279715
Rather sure you're going to sperg out when anon schools you

>>7281432
>it only held 112k of data total
I don't mind having to swap and flip disks. Better than having to wait 10 minutes for a tape drive game to load.
>ate drive belts like candy
That's a minor problem that could be fixed but wasn't because nintendo were cheapskates. I'm not sure why floppy drives had to use rubber belts though, they could've used more gears instead.
>permitted insane amounts of piracy
Wouldn't be a problem if it had a removable ROM module. Major development studios should've been able to distribute their 4k or 8K DRM ROM modules alongside the floppy disk, that ROM module would be used to allow the game inside the floppy to run. It's a cheap, simple, and effective privacy prevention method but nintendo was too stupid to do this.

You haven't mentioned the actual advantage it had over other disk drive. It was launched for $80 while the commodore 1541 was $399. The disk read speed was fast, at 12KB/S. It was faster than Atari 800's 9.5KB/S and much faster than Commodore's 2.5KB/S, at a fraction of the price of either of those.

>>7273181
>critical
Do you really get that mad when your first post in a thread makes it obvious who you are, kiddo?

>>7281745
But try and play Ultima with a game pad. Lyl.

>>7281753
Laddy, any game developer worth their salt included a tape or disk fastloader which significantly improved load time.

>>7281783
>no u
>kiddo

>>7281907
Are you seriously not some little kid playing pretend? Most of the board seems to think you are.

>>7279403
>but given the choice to play any game, any time, for free and platforms don't matter which are you going with?
I'd rather play The City of Gold, Phantom of the Asteroid, Wizard of Wor, Morpheus, Moondust, and Heart of Africa on the C64. The NES and Master System would brick itself trying to run Moondust, and yet it's one of my favorite 8 bit games ever made.

>What I listed or Wizball and The Last Ninja?
I think Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania games are overrated. Wizball is actually entertaining and The Last Ninja has that exploration vibe I enjoy. Also, Katakis, X-out, and Turrican 2.

>>7281846
>mods will fix it!
I love the C64 and prefer it to the famicom too, but lets not cut commodore some slack.

>>7261881
They had some early Metroidvanias that the competition couldn’t compete with.

>>7281937
It's not a mod, it's just a little piece of code you send to the drive to use a faster transfer rate than the default one. Trivial to set up.

>>7281941
What retard invented the term metroidvania anyway? Item based exploration platformers were some of the most popular games in the Atari 8 bit era. It's called action adventure puzzle game. Trannoid didn't invent shit.

>>7266425
>Man, the inferiority complex of C64 babbies is cute
>best selling home computer in ALL OF HISTORY
>inferiority
yeah, that's not how it works, poorfag.

>>7281929
>most of the board is the voices in my head
cry harder little baby

>>7282475
I'll take that as a "yes" then.

>>7272065
>I worked on games for both the C64 and NES
>worked
No you didn't, little fella. You sure as hell didn't work as a dev during the NES era. I might believe you wrote some BASIC on your parent's C64 when you were a kid, but even then I'm believing none of it without code and game names.

>>7281931
>implying any of those games are any fun at all

>>7283180
Explain.

>>7283043
Angst

>>7283865
>changed ip just for this post
why lol? get banned?

>>7283180
Late 2nd gen and early 3rd gen games are the most fun because they were designed for pure gameplay. Late 3rd gen games are full of graphics whoring and gimmicks without any substantial innovation in gameplay.

>>7284330
yeah if you look at later C64 games too often they're over the top tech demos like Stormlord with very little actual gameplay

>>7283023
>>7283043
I wonder if you've ever stopped to think about how incredibly chuffed all of us get when you loose your shit and start ranting about how there can't possibly be any intelligent grownups on your sekret kidz club. If you weren't such a sad loser it might even stroke my ego to know that my ability to write games for old systems is considered a superhuman ability no one could possibly possess by someone. But alas, you're no one. Just an angry little bitch who keeps crying while all around him kids even younger than him are learning to write the games he knows he'll never have the brainpower to make No wonder you're perpetually seething.

>>7261881
wow a computer that takes an hour to load, requires arcane rune commands to operate, has 3 games, and no control input
WhY DiDnT iT oUtSeLl NiNtEnDo!?!?

>>7285435
>no code
>no names
>nothing but larp and projecting
Not surprising.

>>7285435
lol
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/4458748/

>>7286836
"It has been listed in the Guinness World Records as the highest-selling single computer model of all time, with independent estimates placing the number sold between 12.5 and 17 million units."

where's nintendo's record?

>> hour to load
> he was too poor for a disk drive
> was too poor to change a ROM chip or get a fastload cart
embarrassing.

almighty c64 is 39 years old and still living rent free in the minds of nintentoddlers.

>>7286836
You must be 18 to use this website.

>>7286910
Imagine thinking anyone would feel the need to prove himself to an butthurt little tard?

>>7286956
Is this your origin story? Where you larped and got caught and vowed to call everyone who knows more than you a larper? Which post is your larp?

>>7284483
Stormlord was a coom demo.

>>7288226
No, it's your origin story and you know it. Not the first time I've posted it in threads you're playing pretend in. You trying to deflect and claim that it isn't you is a new tactic, though. Normally you own it.

>>7288350
Probably because I'm a different assembly language larper. You call everyone who knows more than you that and that's literally 90% of the board. It's both funny and sad that this bogeyman has been living rent free in your head for years. Seriously, do you even know what a fucking psycho you look like?

>>7289672
>It's both funny and sad that this bogeyman has been living rent free in your head for years
Ironic, considering I'm the one that created you. Whatever part of that throwaway trolling that hurt and embarrassed you so deeply and profoundly has been living rent free in your head since the thread that I birthed you in back in 2017. I consider you my greatest work. I've never been inside someone's head this deep and for this long before. There is hurt, there is embarrassment, and there's both, and then there's what I did to you to make you this way for all this time.

The only thing I'd like is the closure of knowing exactly what part of the trolling got to you so bad that you created this persona, but we both know you'll never fess up to that. And that's fine. It's enough knowing that you exist.