/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7231793
You're right, because SSDs are the future now. Cartridge bros have won

>>7231793
someone was greedy, but it wasn't sony.

>>7231793
This failing

>>7231798
He said the DC was the future, and seeing how the homebrew is nowadays, he might have had a point

>>7231793
>greed of Sony

Soitendo literally charges their fans $80 to play with cardboard

>>7231793
>Playing both sides of the Basedtendo coin

>it's CDROM's fault
>it's Sony's fault
>it's 3rd party's fault
24 years and counting

>>7231793
It's funny how much capacity this shirt have but very low data transfer rate and high latency against cartridges that had 100 times more speed but lower capacity at the time due to costs and demand of these chips. But yes cartridge tecnology is way ahead of compact disc tecnology , cartridges could even be used as extra RAM like Battle For Naboo did and even make randomly/ procedurally generated shit in games since the data are not read only like discs.
Disc drives are so badly designed and prone to failure and they last much less than a cartridge socket .

The worst thing we ever did was enable Nintendos rubbish.

>varying prices for virtual console titles based on what system they came out on
>releasing the NES mini in limited quantities benefiting only scalpers
>reducing the SNES mini by 10 titles and increasing the price by $20 because
>letting Nintendo lock digital sales per a console instead of per an account until the switch
>never allowing older digital purchases on older systems on new systems unless you pay the new premium
>releasing 3 older games with next to no changes and charging $60
>make said title only available for less than a year even digitally

How much shit Nintendo fans put up with amazes me to this day. Fuck they even sold you guys cardboard and you ate that shit up.

>>7231905
>Fuck they even sold you guys cardboard and you ate that shit up
I'm kinda lost, what is this new cardboard?

>>7231859
It's funny how Nintendo actually managed to have load times in SNES games because coprocessors were cheaper than larger ROMs. It's also funny how most N64 game textures were 32x32 or 32x64 pixels because there wasn't enough space on cart to use 256x256 everywhere.

CDs were in regular use on computers and certain home consoles since the late 80s.

>Largest NeoGeo cart 89.5MB
>Largest N64 cart 64MB

>>7231914
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Labo

>>7232261
I just looked up 'nintendo cardboard' and labo came up.
This thing is such a laugh. A fishing rod or something out of fucking cardboard. At least it's not more china plastic, right?

>>7231798
>This failing

One of the reason why people cited that this was a failure was the lack of a DVD drive. Instead, Sega used a format developed by Yamaha called GD-ROM. Which cannot be played on the majority of PC disc drives.

>>7231793
No CD-Rom = no piracy = no mass market appeal.
They were greedy and they paid a hefty price for it.

>>7231793
>we discuss how the greed of Sony
sony was one of few companies selling consoles that encouraged third party publishers and gave them devkits and licensing deals nobody else would give them, creating many classic game franchises in the process. you are an absolutely fucking retarded moron.

>>7232304
>No CD-Rom = no piracy = no mass market appeal.
piracy had nothing to do with anything.
>They were greedy and they paid a hefty price for it.
a world of pure imagination.

>>7231793
It was the greed of Nintendo and their double standard policies during the 3rd and 4th gen that eventually made Sony do this

>>7231953
> what do you mean a neogeo game cost around $300+ brand new ??

>>7232317
Yes it did. Systems sold purely on the basis that you can play free games on it in shithole countries. Which also inspired more legitimate sales later.
Later nintendo tried to push N64 to a wider market but it was too late, psx was the console everyone had known and went on to buy the ps2.

>>7232325
> forgets that piracy on n64 also existed
> thinks linking piracy to consoles = sales

>op attacks ziony
>desperate ziony soldiers immediately attack nintendo
Why are console warriors so basic and predictable

>>7232340
>> forgets that piracy on n64 also existed
>> thinks linking piracy to consoles = sales

How much piracy actually happened on the N64 in comparison to the PS1? I bet a lot smaller number. CD's were easy to copy, as soon as CD burners became affordable for the PC. I would use to rent PS1 games, put them into my PC's CD disc drive, and make ISO's out of them using desktop software in Windows 98, so I could mount them in a virtual disc drive and play them on Connectix Virtual Game Station. Though harddrive space was still a commodity. So, I could only really save a few ISO's at any given time.

>>7232397
not much back then, ironically its extremely common now. your average joe who just wants to relive his childhood is giving thousands to the chinese for repro carts lol.

but yeah it was decently common on ps1. once i went into a pawn shop and they had games on a shelf, and ps1 backups were mixed in with actual games.

>>7232423
>not much back then, ironically its extremely common now. your average joe who just wants to relive his childhood is giving thousands to the chinese for repro carts lol.

I remember one of my nephews back in the 2000's having a GBA with a bootleg Chinese cartridge in it that contained like 20GBA games, a bunch of GB and GBC games and oddball hacked NES ROM's. I don't even know how they managed to get the NES ROM's to work. Flash ROMs with problematic with handhelds. Back-ups were a problem on the PS1 and PS2.

Everdrive's and other after-market cartridges are becoming more common in recent years. Understandable, given how easy it is to play a whole library of games on real hardware.

>>7232397
Dude you’re not thinking about the fact that no one wanted to download hundreds of Megabytes over dial-up in 1995. Might have seen more piracy if broadband/computer ownership was more prevalent back then.

>>7232423
imagine buying anything retro, you guys are dumb as shit

Love this alternative history where the PC Engine Duo, Sega CD, 3DO and Amiga 32CD don't exist.

>>7231796
That's a hard cold proof that N64 is shit.

>>7232397
Piracy is a non issue. Video game profit per copy is huge. Pirates only make up a minority of players.

>>7232397
>>7232778
On top of that, CD burners, especially in supposed shithole countries, weren’t common place until turn of the millennium, towards the end of both consoles lifespan. Home piracy would have had no noticeable effect on 5th gen sales, at least during the time period it mattered. I wonder if all these posts come from people who got a ps1 in like 2005 as their first console.

>>7231905
>never allowing older digital purchases on older systems on new systems unless you pay the new premium

You can transfer all of your Virtual Console and WiiWare games from Wii to Wii U without ever having to buy them again on the Wii U eshop. Switch doesn't have Virtual Console and WiiWare so for Switch it's redundant anyways.

>>7232824
Switch doesn't have offline retro games.

>>7232261
Jesus fucking Christ, nintendo cucks are worse than I thought
>>7232279
At least you could make some better toys with chinese plastic

>>7232818
>I wonder if all these posts come from people who got a ps1 in like 2005 as their first console
I had mine in 2005 and even back then we bought the pirated games on stores. From my experience, people who talk about disc burning from PS1 are generally zoomers who don't know jackshit of how life was back in the day.

>>7232824
>You can transfer all of your Virtual Console and WiiWare games from Wii to Wii U without ever having to buy them again on the Wii U eshop

No what's worse is that all that's doing is transferring the eshop stuff from your Wii to the WiiU's virtual Wii, you have to bust out the Wii remote and open the virtual Wii menu to play them. To play them directly on the WiiU menu and with its worth VC emulation you have to cough up 99 cents a game.

>>7231793

With cartriges you don't even need to copy program code and most of the assets to RAM, because cartriges are almost as fast as RAM. You need RAM only for data you need to change in process. So same amount of RAM on cartrige system is much more capable than on PC with HDD or some system with CD drive.

>>7231905
Didn't Labo kind of fail? I remember seeing them in the clearance section, last Nintendo game I found in clearance was Metroid Other M.

>>7232312
> creating many classic game franchises in the process
More like created a mountain of shovelware, while still excluding indies. At least with Steam's utter anarchy, you end up with surprise hits from no-name indies. The PS2 was the worst of both worlds. There was enough of a barrier to prevent indies from making games for it, but no curation of low-quality shovelware, leading to perhaps the absolute worst ratio of crap to good games of any platform in history.
>>7232818
> people who got a ps1 in like 2005 as their first console.
Maybe they do. Poor people in third world countries often play a generation or even multiple generations behind. Wait for it to become old and cheap and hackable before they pick it up. Are third worlders the quintessential retro gamers?

>>7232283
But just around 2 years later the GameCube did the same thing (using proprietary optical media) yet noone seemed to complain (doubly so with the Wii), just to show what utter BS the 'le no DVD' argument really have always been

>>7233936
The game cube’s proprietary discs held 1.5x what you could squeeze on to a GD ROM. Still less than a full size dvd but 500mb was nothing to sneeze at at the time.

>>7231905
those are all legitimate criticisms.
>>7232397
the fact that ps1 emulation is almost damn near perfect and the fact that The n64 is still damn hard to emulate perfectly to this day should be your answer.

>>7234305
> ps1 emulation is almost damn near perfect
LOL PS1 emulation is a fucking mess. The only remotely decent PS1 emulator is Mednafen and its derivatives, which are fractured into a bunch of different forks/cores with different features, and still no really good GUI.

>>7233726
>while still excluding indies
sony was literally one of the pioneers of indie gaming. you have no clue what you're talking about.

>>7233726
>worst ratio of crap to good games of any platform in history.
I think you're forgetting about the Wii. Don't worry though, I forget about it too.

>>7232818
>>7232423
>>7232397
Piracy was literally a service problem where I lived in the PSX era (Poland, post-commie country).
Yes, cd burners and internet connections weren't as common until early to mid 00s, but electronics stores were booming, and every single small firm selling computers profited on pirated backups going for around $5 a CD.
They were ripping people off (once bought a 4 disc game that ended up being pricier than an original copy), but because the prices were adjusted to what school children could afford, everyone happily obliged.
Basically piracy around here enabled gaming to thrive in the most reasonable way the free market would allow (which nintendo were too ignorant to capitalize on) and Sony only profited from it in the long run. Meanwhile most people I've ever known scoff at the idea of buying overpriced toys from greedy fucks at nintendo and their consoles are utterly irrelevant aside from cult-like fanbase countries like in the US consisting of manchild onions consumers.

>>7231793
jfc get over it already

>>7234404
ps2 had a larger library and had more shovelware than the wii, but do go on. (not denying that the wii was filled to the brim with shovelware, it was. but the ps2 was a little bit worse.)

>>7231795
We could have had 500MiB carts if the consumer wasn't so gaddamn cheap

>>7233936
gamecube barely sold 20 million

>>7234572
No, Wii definitly had more shovelware on it.

>>7234336
>LOL PS1 emulation is a fucking mess. The only remotely decent PS1 emulator is Mednafen and its derivatives
That's exactly the point, at least the PSX has one good emulator. N64 is stuck in development limbo

>>7232778
Not that anon, but that's likely why most older game rips removed all music and fmvs.

>>7231793
Compared to... cartridges?

Nigga WAT

>>7231793
Yeah anon, I prefer my mainframe games on IBM punch cards

>>7231931
At least the N64 had more RAM to work with, devs like rare could use various textures layers to create better textures .

Conkers Bad Fur Day had wonderful textures and 2 hours of spoken dialog in MP3 , in a cartridge

Also 007 TWINE funnily enough had more voiced dialogs than the PS1 version even being a CD based game

>>7231793
No question, sonys greed fucked gaming as a whole pretty hard. On the bright side, they are on their way out soon.

>>7231905
None of this affects me as im a based Nintendo pirate chad.

>>7237105
BASED

>>7231796
I wondered why absolutely nobody made N64 games and this explains it.

What the fuck were they thinking?

>>7236992
Man I hope so. I don't see it though. They're still on an ascent if anything. The PS5 is selling even better than the PS4 at launch.

These things are fucking kino and it's a shame everything wasn't like these.

>>7231905
>How much shit Nintendo fans put up with amazes me to this day.
Nintendo fans are 10 yearold zoomers who are not allowed to play X rating GTA games. Nintendo literally is exploiting children

>>7234539
Here in Brazil we got them imported from china. It costed about 10% of the price that someone would pay for the original. It was expensive because of heavy taxation and shithole currency vs non-shithole currency. It would require at least three monthly average full salaries to get a PS5 just so you can have an idea how shit things are. So the only option was to go and buy games from another shithole country for a reasonable price.

I even had N64 before PS and the only cheap alternative for N64 cartridges was renting. I also owned a SNES before that and I could buy bootleg cartridges but they were not cheap enough compared to CD's but I at least traded my shitty mario game that came for a pirated MK2 at the same store that I bought the console.

Renting a N64 game by a quarter of the price of a PS pirated game every weekend was more than enough to play nearly every game N64 had in their poor library and finish it till have nothing left to play. It was then that I realized that PS games were coming out on much faster rate despite the graphical inferiority. This is when I learned that games were more important than superior hardware.

But the main reason why most shitholers were choosing PS over N64 was piracy. And if it wasn't for CD piracy shitholers would just have to cope by renting original scratched CDs. In the end piracy did helped Snoy or no one would give a dime for their consoles. The same happened to PS2 while some retards like me were still dumb enough to buy a gamecube to end-up having to rent scratched disks. And after that PS3 ended street piracy and you can see how much less units they sold

Play any multiplat that released on N64 and any CD system and it becomes incredibly clear why CD > cartridge

>>7231793
>more storage space at the time than carts
>better sound quality than carts
>cheaper to produce, which lead to standardised pricing
>took up less physical space on your shelf
>only downside was loading times

So you're retarded. Got it.

>>7238052
>The same happened to PS2 while some retards like me were still dumb enough to buy a gamecube to end-up having to rent scratched disks.
PS2 launch was so big here I didn't even knew we had gamecube here on Bruhzil

>>7238052
PS2 piracy was huge, a game was 10 reais and it was always a fun time picking a bunch of games and having to return half of them because they didn't work lmao.

>>7238092
>, a game was 10 reais and it was always a fun time picking a bunch of games and having to return half of them because they didn't work lmao
lmao, those were the good times. There were some camelos, specially in São Paulo, that offered 3 games for 10 reais. It sucked when you went on a trip to São Paulo and came with 9 games and 4 didnt work.

>>7238063
Worse framerates? Jagged pixelated graphics? Affine texture warping Parkinson's textures?

>>7238068
A guy from a rental store was trying to convince me to get a gamecube. Is a shame that after PS2 piracy nearly every rental store went broke. The price of rent was nearly the price of buying piracy.
>>7238092
The pirate ones I got was as good as the ones I burned. But some have a few stains now and don't even know if they still work.
>>7238097
I live in a far smaller city in the same state. I bought mines from a console store and had to pay more, I think they would buy there and sell here

>>7231796
/thread

>>7237173
They weren't thinking, it was pure unbridled hubris.

>>7232801
>>7231796
>>7238214
can someone explain the image for me? i dont get it

>>7238308
It's the cost of the components of the internal hardware. PlayStation was more expensive to manufacture. N64 cheaper.

As for the games. A single unit of a game cost a PlayStation publisher $1.50 to manufacture and Sony took $7.50 in royalties.

So if they sold a $40 game they made $18. Retailer made $10 and Sony made $7.50

An N64 cartridge cost 8x more to manufacture than a disc. Then Nintendo took apparently a large $19 in royalties and then the retailer greedy fucks took $15. Which is why N64 carts were so expensive back then at $60.

Devs made $11 per game sold, Nintendo made $19+ and retailers made $15 while the consumer gets fucked in the ass with the costs.

Put it like this. The cost to make 100,000 N64 carts you could make 800,000 PS1 carts for the same price at nearly 2x the profit for each copy sold.

Now you know why everyone jumped ship from Nitnendo and why it only has like 300 games.

>>7238218
I mean, that's like a 30% cut. That's less than every single storefront takes today. Standard is 40%. And that's with NO manufacturing costs on a digital storefront.

>>7238368
>An N64 cartridge cost 8x more to manufacture than a disc. Then Nintendo took apparently a large $19 in royalties and then the retailer greedy fucks took $15. Which is why N64 carts were so expensive back then at $60.
And this is in 1997, so you're looking at 8 or 16 MB ROM sizes around that time! You want voice acting or CD-quality orchestral music? Too bad, you pay out the ass for an even larger ROM size or you compress textures, sound files, and the like to ungodly levels. All of a sudden your game released for a 1996 console looks and sounds worse than a game would for the 1994 console.

Nintendo really screwed themselves with with respect to third party software. They prioritized anti-piracy measures and were drawn to a lower-cost, and thus higher profit, manufacturing process without the CD unit. Even the consoles that were released in '92 and '93 that no one even remembers came standard with, or in the case of the Jaguar eventually offered, a CD unit.

>>7238065
>only downside was loading times
The PS1 had a miniscule RAM capacity so you had to go through so many loading screens. Even with 1X CD speed, the longest loading time is 15 seconds though, that's not quite bad.

>>7238401
The price of disk drive was around 50 cents per MB in mid 90s. If nintendo wanted to cheap out, they could make a console with 200MB HDD and a 3.5 inch floppy drive. Why didn't they?

>>7238205
>I think they would buy there and sell here
It's pretty common. And that's actually something I always wondered, for that amount of games they got, there must have some been for years a big business with a chinese factory, even today you can go at any street market and find pirated PS2 games on large scale.

>>7237357
there was a whole ass console using those

>>7237357
They weren't. They had small capacity and were nowhere as cheap as CDs. Would be great for handheld consoles though.

>>7238308
>>7231796
N64 had less cost in hardware production and more in software. The end costumer had to pay 150% to play in their cheap hardware because of expensive software cost not only because of cartridge production but royalties. The royalties went to companies not developers to keep it exclusive to themselves

>>7238428
An HDD of any size would have been amazing, but in the '90s it's still best left to PCs. You still need a method of filling the hard drive with data, which could realistically only be done cheaply with CDs. If you're going to be using CDs anyway, no point in having an HDD. The whole point of using ROM cartridges was removing excess from the motherboard to lower manufacturing costs for Nintendo and to push increased software costs onto the customer. Nintendo's quest for more profit actually cost them future profit opportunities.

>>7238468
>You still need a method of filling the hard drive with data, which could realistically only be done cheaply with CDs
Wasn't floppy drive cheaper? I wonder if coupling a floppy drive with a 100 or 200MB HDD would be cheaper than a CD drive back then. a 100MB HDD would be something like $50 while I heard the PS1's CD drive cost over $150.

>>7238428
Don't you remember the N64 DD? The disc drive add on. They knew they fucked up and were developing this add on to get developers back on board. But it kept getting delayed and pushed back and development hell and eventually cancelled.

It was going to cost like $80 or something and maybe come with a disc version of Mario or Zelda or something so everyone would have one. And that way N64 could have gotten street fighter and final fantasy 7 and shit. But alas it never came to be.

>>7238495
It should've been launched with the consoles instead of just an add on. Iomega had been making zip drives since 1994, nintendo could've used their tech from the earliest development phase of their console.

>>7231798
Now imagine much different story if NEC’s console or N64 use 1GD drive.

>>7238495
Right, but again you're Nintendo and (referring to this post's image: >>7231796) you want to manufacture your console as cheaply as possible to compete with the Playstation and Saturn over the '96 holiday season. I'm guessing your 50 cents per MB is correct, so you're adding $50 (for only a 100 MB drive) to the manufacturing cost. That's already more expensive than what Sony is spending for their CD drive which can hold ~700MB games. So then on top of the HDD you have to add another drive so that game data can be placed on the hard drive. A floppy controller is probably under $15, but you're only getting 1/500th the amount of data on it compared to a CD. Oh, and for every $1 you're adding to the manufacturing process, the retailer is going to add $1.50 to the customer. You're adding $100 more to the Nintendo 64, pricing it well above the PSX, and still have a worse method of content delivery. If you're Nintendo, bite the bullet and spend the extra money on a CD drive. Sony will probably still win the generation, but it will be much closer.

>>7238532
Meant as a reply to >>7238493.

>>7232836
They do.

>>7238439
Which had more soul.
>>7238495
That 64mb disk. Nintendo can get JAZ 1GB

>>7238526
Nintendo add ons were their greedy excuse to make more money. They sold memory expansions separately instead of already adding in their consoles. And that thing didn't make much difference. Sony could copy their strategy but they didn't. While Sony sold their controls with vibration inside. Nintendo made you buy the control separated from the vibrator. To make things worst they wanted you to keep switching the memory card with their heavy vibrator to save the game in the same slot. Imagine playing MGS on this thing. How would Mantis read your mind to figure out the games you played while your hands were shakin

>>7238526
>Iomega
Probably best timeline

>>7238572
>greedy excuse
lol It only mail order in Japan.

>>7238572
>1994
>vibrate inside
Dual shock come soon on 98

>>7238572
Just have the memory card in a controlled in port 2? EVERYONE had 2+ N64 controllers you cheap Jew. It was literally the multiplayer console.

The rumble Pak is also far FAR better than the jewshock which came AFTERwards. Along with the two sticks.

Rumble Pak is probably the best implementation of rumble to date cus it was fucking huge where as they out these tiny little motors inside the controllers ever since. External is far better.

>>7238583
I didn't say it was added at the console release date you idiot. Both consoles has added vibration later but only one was dumb enough to let the heavy vibrator outside
>>7238585
>Just have the memory card in a controlled in port 2? EVERYONE had 2+ N64 controllers you cheap Jew. It was literally the multiplayer console.
Sure let me fall for another greedy excuse and get myself another controller just so I can save my game and if I go multiplayer I just buy another controller at least I won't need to buy a PS multitap for it. Lol I could just add 2 cards at the same time on PS with no need of another controller at all

>>7238532
I didn't know the CD drive was that cheap.

>>7238065
>better sound quality than carts

This is a big drawback. In theory the sound can be better; in practice it's just more bland and normal, with more voice-acted garbage shoved in to eat up the player's time. In reality, the NES has better actual sound than the PSX does.

>>7238635
>Not having a second controller with his N64
Lmaooooo nobody did this.

>>7238635
No ask you moron

>>7237105
B8s3d

>>7238709
> In reality, the NES has better actual sound than the PSX does.
Lol nice hot take retard. Contrarianism is the only reason that anyone would possibly say this

Imagine being Nintendo and giving up the final fantasy series.

>>7240538
Imagine being Square and stabbing Nintendo in the back to cut costs by moving to inferior spinning media.

>>7238495
>>7238526
>>7238573
There's an older and even cheaper medium called "floptical". It could store 21MB in a 3.5 disk. It was cheaper than CD and had a high, 2MB/sec buffer transfer rate. Compare that to PS1's 150-300 KB/s CD read speed. There's zero excuse nintend didnt use this format.

https://wiki.preterhuman.net/Floptical

>>7240660
"The product had lingering quality and reliability issues"

Gee I wonder...

>>7240719
Only when having to read from a standard floppy disk.

>>7240725
>Sony also tried their own floptical-based format, the Sony HiFD, but quality control problems ruined its reputation.

Did you even read it?

>>7240732
The standard 3.5 floppy format used in a normal disk drive probably had awful optical readability. I figure iomega only used that so it could be compatible with standard floppy disk. Making a custom floppy which coud better accommodate optical reading would solve it and turn it into a hybrid between floptical and ZIP.

>>7240753

Which would have involved Nintendo, a company that had established its philosophy of relying on old tech, taking a huge risk. They learned their lesson with the Famicom recall and whacked Gunpei when his VB fell apart. There's no way in the world they were putting upto 50 million of these unreliable systems out there and letting the chips fall where they may.

>>7240773
> He also dismissed CD-ROM out of hand, stating that it's "not the future"
He was too far ahead of his time

>>7240768
As I said, giving it a better optical readability format and would make it about as reliable as a ZIP drive. Probably even more reliable because it would be a lot less dense.
>There's no way in the world they were putting upto 50 million of these unreliable systems
And yet they chose to use ZIP drive over CD.

>>7232279
The joycons are incorporated into the cardboard and use the haptic feedback, camera, and gyros to operate.
The idea being your kids could be as rough with this shit as they wanted and just cut up a new piece of cardboard later to replace it.

The REAL problem is Joycons also ended up being cheap chinese toys that easily broke.

>>7240796
And moved a grand total of 15k units, 3 years after the 64 hit the market.

>>7240828
What a pitiful sales record. Seethe nintranny.

>>7240796
>>7240768
What’s your thought on Jaz cart?

>>7240660
I think that if Nintendo wanted anything other than a ROM-based console, they would have just went with CD. It's really not about trying to find an alternative that they could have used, they would have been aware of all of them at the time. Above all else they were probably targeting a manufacturing price point that was palatable to the mass-market, which was between $200 and 250. A media drive of any sort probably pushed them above that.

Also, 21MB isn't that much storage. Launch games for the N64 might have only been 8MB, but Nintendo was probably projecting steep ROM price drops over the coming months and years to vastly increase that amount. I remember one anon not too long ago showed that ROM prices stagnated around that time, which was unfortuitous for Nintendo.

>>7240815
Hell, the 3DS and Wii U have better & highly polished feedback. Switch lite also draft issue.

>>7241038
Among other choices? Cheap storage Mini-CD or newly GD-ROM.

>>7240784
He knew DVD-ROM been out in 96’

What a bold move.

>>7241038
>21MB isn't that much storage
21MB per side. 42 MB if you use both sides. Its plentiful enough if youre not filling your game with FMV bullshit and 30 minute non sampled MP3 files.

>A media drive of any sort probably pushed them above that.
It was cheaper than a CD ROM drive and wouldnt need a flash storage.

>steep ROM price drops
Thats a dumb projection, ROM prices have never dropped steeply and can never be produced in a mass quantity.

>>7232801
Take your word back.

>>7241106
>21MB per side. 42 MB if you use both sides. Its plentiful enough if youre not filling your game with FMV bullshit and 30 minute non sampled MP3 files.
I get that, but then again without the FMV or music bullshit, 8 or 16 MB ROMs may just as well have been enough. And in that scenario you don't even have to add a drive at all! Basically, if you're going to chase the market trends that Sony succeeded at and others like Sega and 3DO chased, you might as well go for the 650 MB optical format.

>Thats a dumb projection, ROM prices have never dropped steeply and can never be produced in a mass quantity.
They can be produced in quantity just fine. ROMs follow RAM price trends and there was a downwards push on prices around late '95 and into '96, but for different reasons. RAM prices went down because of a glut caused by over-production, and ROM went down due to renewed investment into semiconductor fabs after the shock of the Japanese economy's downturn was stabilized.

>>7241170
>without the FMV or music bullshit, 8 or 16 MB ROMs may just as well have been enough.
ROM carts are much more expensive than magnetic storage no matter how you see it.

>>7241083
No, he recognized that cartridges were the superior tech. It took Sony 4 generations to realize it. The PS5 cannot even play games off a disk. When you insert a disk, it copies over the game to the internal SSD, AKA an internal cartridge. Then every time after that, it plays the game off the cartridge and just pretends to be playing it off the disk. We could have avoided this retarded bastardized solution if Sony had just gone with cartridges in the first place, but nope, they were too stingy.

>>7241246
Can't tell if trolling or just a nintard.

>>7241329
Neither. Name any thing factually wrong with my statements. You can't, it's all true. SSDs and cartridges are the same technology. Solid state storage. It was superior in the '90s and it's still superior today. After sticking to the spinning rust folly for 4 entire generations, Sony has finally given up and are phasing out disks in favor of solid state tech.

>>7241494
Learn the difference between factory programmable ROM and electrically erasable programmable ROM nintard. They're worlds apart and don't even use the same logic and materials. SSD uses the same technology as PS1 memory card, which was nothing like nintrando's game carts. Even during the N64 era, Nintendo still used battery backed SRAM for some of their game carts instead of flash memory, that just shows how far they were behind.

>>7241329
You have when?

>>7241106
>>steep ROM price drops
>Thats a dumb projection, ROM prices have never dropped steeply and can never be produced in a mass quantity.
In this very thread the production of a N64 cartridge was marked as $12.00. Lets take a large game like RE2. Used 2 32MB mask ROMs, CIC chip, battery, PCB, and a resistor. Prices on most of those haven't changed any. They were mass producing the PCB's during the N64's lifetime, most likely overseas where it would be nice and cheap, so they were probably getting them for 10 cents per square inch, and resistors for a nickle each. Let's round it off and call it $1 for the PCB plus the resistor(yes, I know that's high). CIC chips were simple and mass produced, probably 10-50 cents each. And the batteries in bulk would be about 50 cents each as well, so lets call the CIC and battery $1. That would make each 32MB mask ROM chip $5 back then.

Right now you can get 50 32MB EPROM(more expensive than mask ROMs) for $70. That's less than half the price they were paying for 32MB's back then.

>>7242020
> That would make each 32MB mask ROM chip $5 back then.
Well that wasnt the story though. Each 32MB MROM chip were more expensive than 5 dollar. Ive seen the boards and each PCB contained around 3 tantalum transistors. Tantalum got expensive somewhere in the late 90s anc early 2000s, it got expensive until we started exploiting and causing wars in africa.

>>7242180
>transistors
*resistors

>>7241494
>SSDs are ROM, oh boy zoom zoom zoom

oof

>>7241329
>>7240981
Stop being tranny worshipers. Nothing against it.

>>7231805
>point of retardation

>>7242370
>such slow game

>>7242370
Square and Rare are still faggot nowadays

>>7242370
kek you'll need a cigarette after wading through 30 hours of that autistic garbage. ill take ocarina of time thanks

>>7234393

I'm pretty sure you and I are the only two people who remember Net Yaroze, anon. Exciting times they were.

>>7241554
>>7242185
Cope. Regardless of the exact tech they were using, solid state tech is ALWAYS superior to spinning rust. Just because Nintendo might not have been using the absolute best solid state tech available doesn't excuse Sony using disks which are 100x worse than the worst solid state storage.

>>7242370
> dude muh graffix and cutscenes
Meanwhile the game had absolutely nothing else going for it. The gameplay was the same as every SNES jrpg and the game did nothing that couldn't have been done in 2D.

Almost no PlayStation games truly made good use of 3D. All they knew how to do was make the same shit they were making in 2D but with fancier graphics. Meanwhile Nintendo made full use of the 3D medium and created innovative games that never would have been possible in 2D. The only exception is games that were direct ripoffs of Nintendo games like Spyro and Ape Escape.

If creative hacks like PSX-era Sony ruled the industry we'd still be playing top-down turn-based prerendered JRPGs but in 4k.

>>7243156
>we'd still be playing top-down turn-based prerendered JRPGs but in 4k.

If only.

>>7232283
What if Yamaha help Ultra 64 development, GD drive format and YM2164 for Nintendo. How gaming landscape history have changed?

>>7234336
lmao Beetle_PSX_HW is literally perfect. Literally Perfect

>>7238401
They strongly considered launching with the disk technology that ending up becoming the ill fated 64 DD but considering the 64 was already delayed multiple times the top brass decided it could not wait to miss the 1996 holiday season. It's also why they went with the "expansion" slot instead of having the 8mb built in, as it was only required for the disk drive.

>>7238401
>>7243259
>ill fated
Like Jaguar systems + CD kill Atari as whole dead company once was and one of three 1994 CD triple, PC-FX forced NEC leave all gaming industry entire.

>>7232283
Weak reason

>>7232985
>cuck
Stfu. Nintendo is toy company after all.

>>7234010
>500mb
A CD holds 700 MB. What was your point?

>>7234010
GD only held 1GB...

>>7238709
loool

>>7243292
Nice English, faggot.

>>7243634
>not overburning

>>7231859
Imagine if the gamecube had 4 cartridge ports that could be used simultaneously

>>7238193
Even worse framerates? Vaseline filter? Worse/less content?

>>7243257
Except being chained to the horrible tire fire that is retroarch. If only they made a standalone version.

>>7243134
>solid state tech is ALWAYS superior to spinning rust.
Only when it's rewritable. Otherwise its a fucking waste.

>>7243703
>N64
>Worse FPS than PS1
Lol
>Vaseline filter
You mean state of the art linear filtering that people paid $x000's for hardware accelerater cards on pc to have?

Also the less content is some 20fps awful firtbgen CG cutscenes that have a loading screen before and after they play? Wow what a loss.

>>7243659
Fook off.

>>7243659
Well, faggot is English food.

>>7240981
What are you even on about, Nintendo is the most profitable games company that has ever existed. Sony lose money on every console it ships.

The great debate

>>7233726
>Are third worlders the quintessential retro gamers?
As a third world we myself I can say yes, the PSP was (and is) very popular here in Mexico because it's very easy to pirate, same with the PS2.

>>7237357
That game sucks horrible shooter

>>7240564
Capcom was backing away from Nintendo also

>>7245260
Right? Konami didn’t do much for GameCube 1&2&3.

>>7243156
>Almost no PlayStation games truly made good use of 3D
Nintrannies are hilarious, sometimes I think they must have actual brain damage to spout this shit.

>>7245273
It hilarious you reply to him/her

>>7243156
>If creative hacks like PSX-era Sony ruled the industry we'd still be playing top-down turn-based prerendered JRPGs but in 4k.
I'm ok with this.

>>7242370
>If it were available on cartridge, it'd retail for around $1,200.
heh

>>7242914
The ad campaign for FF VII was funded and executed by Sony themselves. Which is why it has the console war angle to it.

>>7243319
>Weak reason

At the time, no. PS2 really did sell a lot of units at launch because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market at its release. I knew quite a few people who owned a PS2 as their first DVD player. As stupid as "lack of DVD" playback sounds, it was a big point of contention for the Dreamcast at that point in time. Sega even promised a DVD player add-on that would be released in 2000. It was almost like the lack of BluRay/ HD-DVD push with the 360.

>>7231793
>Why yes, I do prefer paying 30% more for my games!

Games on CD's meant that publishers and developers were far more willing to make risks on new genres and different games, because if the game sales would under-perform, they wouldn't be stuck with unsold cartridges that cost $15-20 to manufacture.

>>7245882
>Games on CD's meant that publishers and developers were far more willing to make risks on new genres and different games, because if the game sales would under-perform, they wouldn't be stuck with unsold cartridges that cost $15-20 to manufacture.

The newest game on the N64 side would have been Doom 64 (April 1997), followed by Turok and Blast Corps (Feb 1997). On the PS1 side, the newest games are Need for Speed 2, Independence Day and NBA Shootout '97 (March '97 releases). This must have been from April '97? That was literally half of the N64 library in April '97 (US/NA) shown in that one image.

>>7245995
>Turok and Blast Corps (Feb 1997)

I mean March 1997

>>7245882
>Turok
>$75
Hahahhahaaaa...

>>7245995
It's amazing how western-heavy the Nintendo 64's software lineup was. Warning bells must have been ringing for Nintendo as early as the beginning of '95 that Japanese third parties would be forgoing their system. Nintendo was forced into a war of attrition with a newcomer in the 16-bit gen because it gave the upstart time to establish itself with newer technology for almost 2 years. They managed to overcome that, but then allowed it to happen again, and this time with a competitor who barged in like an 800-pound gorilla.

Disks had problems, especially shitty early CDs, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think sticking to cartridges through the 90s and 2000s wouldn't have held back gaming worse than fucking anything imaginable. It was a necessary evil.

>>7247137
The PSX is the only thing that was holding back gaming in the '90s. It was a 2D console that wasn't even capable of doing floating point math and had to be messily hacked to do 3D graphics that looked like dogshit due to vertex jitter and perspective incorrect textures. The N64 used cartridges and Ocarina of Time is so far beyond anything on the PS1 that it can't even be compared.

And if R&D was focused on better cartridges instead of the disc folly, then cartridges would have been able to compete. Abandoning solid state technology for over a decade in pursuit of a cheaper medium DID hold gaming back. Just think how much sooner we would have had modern SSDs if all the money that was burned at the alter of spinning rust had been instead put towards SSD development.

>>7238573
garbage n64 shill

>>7247521
truth

>>7240768
Men are talking.

>>7245542
based

>>7247636
Indeed we are, now run along and fetch us drinks, son.

>>7246592
>It's amazing how western-heavy the Nintendo 64's software lineup was. Warning bells must have been ringing for Nintendo as early as the beginning of '95 that Japanese third parties would be forgoing their system.

Nintendo's US launch window was barren. But it did still have a lot of solid games regardless...

> September 29, 1996 (US/NA launch)
Pilotwings 64
Super Mario 64
> November 1, 1996
Wave Race 64
> November 11, 1996
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey
> November 25, 1996
Killer Instinct Gold
> December 3, 1996
Cruis'n USA
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
> January 17, 1997
NBA Hangtime
> February 10, 1997
Mario Kart 64
> February 28, 1997
FIFA Soccer 64
> March 4, 1997
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter
> March 24, 1997
Blast Corps
> April 4, 1997
Doom 64

Turok, Blast Corps and Doom 64 are the last three games in the release list. That Toy's R Us magazine flyer is most definitely April 1997. The N64 had 14 games on the market at that point, and 8 of them are listed on this Toys R Us page. On the PS1 side, the system launched in September 1995 in the US/NA, by April of 1997 the system most likely had hundreds of games in its library. The Saturn probably had less than half that number. The N64 had a real lack in variety of software (missing so many genres) and long waits between game releases. But still a lot of stand out titles, regardless.

Though the Saturn was basically on its death bed at this point. There was no way Sega could have ever sold the Saturn at a competing price of $149.99, the Saturn was an expensive machine for Sega to manufacture and they would have had to take record losses on hardware to do it.

>>7247521
OoT was hot garbage for homos.

>>7247521
>tendies actually believe this
imagine if we were stuck playing only the shitty n64 version of mega man legends, with ugly vaseline textures and no draw distance whatsoever, instead of the superior ps1 or pc versions. the only thing holding gaming back that generation was nintendo and their dumpster fire of a console.

>>7247702
> vaseline textures
You mean actual texture anti-aliasing instead of seeing massive pixels in a 3D game
> no draw distance whatsoever
You REALLY don't want to go there if you're defending the PS1. The N64 is capable of amazing draw distance far in excess of any game on the PS1. Just look at Ocarina of Time. How's the draw distance on Ape Escape compared to Mario 64? You can cherry pick one game that has a worse draw distance on N64 because of a crappy port, but overall N64 had drastically better draw distance. You'd have to be trolling to say otherwise.

>>7247664
>hot garbage for homos
>owned the PS1, a console where the flagship game (FF7) depicted the protagonist being anally raped by naked strongmen in a bath house

>>7247661
Don't get me wrong. I was there from the beginning with the N64 like my others here. Even at the time, I really enjoyed the software that was available in that first year, but there's not denying that there was more legacy software variety from Sony and more decent titles releasing every month compared to Nintendo's offering. Your estimate of that flyer seems correct, as Sony lowered the price of their console in March of that year with Nintendo following shortly after I believe. I don't think any other generation of console saw such rapid and massive price cuts that this one saw, which goes to show you that even if Sega or Nintendo had the perfect hardware or the perfect SDK environment that Sony was simply not going to lose.

Regarding your point about the Saturn, in an alternate reality, Sega simply needed hardware that could scale down over time to keep up with the price war. They didn't need to finish first or second to remain a force in the hardware business, they just needed to stay profitable from it somehow.

>>7245232
I imagine it would be hard to shoot after you cut your gun off

>>7246341
What it's a great game. I actually quit baseball because all I wanted to do was play this game.

GAMING INDUSTRY RUINED !!!

>>7247976
>Regarding your point about the Saturn, in an alternate reality, Sega simply needed hardware that could scale down over time to keep up with the price war. They didn't need to finish first or second to remain a force in the hardware business, they just needed to stay profitable from it somehow

Sega tried to compete by throwing more software bundles at the Saturn. I had a Sega Saturn back then, and my system came with image related bundle. Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Cop and Daytona USA. Sega couldn't price-cut the hardware. But by 1997 Sega Saturn third party software was drying up fast (no Tomb Raider II, no Need for Speed II, EA abandon's the Saturn in 1997, most third parties did) and third parties were all flocking to the PS1 in droves.

And N64, there are about 30-something games released in 1997 for the N64. Star Fox 64 was the next big release after Doom 64 (War Gods and Hexen were released in-between), and that also debuted the rumble pak (it was a pack-in with Star Fox 64). Goldeneye 007 was one of the biggest surprise hits on the N64 and one of the best selling games of 1997. Rare also released Diddy Kong racing in 1997 as well. Both games saved the N64 during the holiday season of 1997. Outside of that, there was San Fransisco Rush (a hit for Midway), Bomberman 64, Duke Nukem 64 (1997 was a big year for N64 FPS games), WCW vs. nWo: World Tour (hit for THQ), Madden 64 and Quarterback Club for sports, and even Mischief Makers, which was the token"It's a 2D game on the N64" platformer. Despite 1997 being a better year for N64 software, it was still uneven, and lacking in so many genres. But it was building itself having a reputation for being a 4-player console.

>>7248278
>Star Fox 64 was the next big release after Doom 64, and that also debuted the rumble pak (it was a pack-in with Star Fox 64). Goldeneye 007 was one of the biggest surprise hits on the N64 and one of the best selling games of 1997.

Star Fox 64 weird US commercial (heavily advertises the Rumble Pak):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsEcmfPwnHo

GoldenEye 007 US TV spot (this one also reminds viewers about the Rumble Pak at the end), voiced by Don LaFontaine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcCq4uOoI6g

Nintendo didn't have the Goldeneye license. That was something that Rare had on their own. Originally, they were hoping to release a Goldeneye game along with the movie in 1995. But the Ultra 64 had many delays. Goldeneye on the N64 couldn't even get a synchronized released with the Goldeneye movie on home video. The N64 game came out on its own in August 1997 (two years after the movie), there wasn't much fanfare from magazine previews. But after the review copies hit, magazines were scoring the game in the high 9's out of 10. Nintendo weren't even sure if they were going to publish this one. They weren't really into licensed games. They must have been shocked by the sales numbers. Top three selling games of 1997? Star Fox 64 did well too. Diddy Kong Racing also surprise hit of 1997.

>>7248261
I tried it on PC recently and found it underwhelming. It probably would have been impressive when it came out but it's no masterpiece.

>>7247976
>alternate reality
Awesome hardware business? NEC PlayStation, Nintendo Neptune and Sega 63?

>>7245882
Imagine Tiny Toon (MD version) run on SNES. Smart ideas than Sonic port.

mario

>>7246592
Sold JP GC (console with stronger minidvd) less than JP N64? You know something wrong.

>>7246341
tip in as for chad

>>7248261
Turok is fucking garbage, but as expected from nintenfags, they'll eat up anything as long as its on nintrando.

>>7249249
>Sega 63?
Very funny, but yeah given the options, Sega would have been better off going with SGI's hardware than going for their own convoluted design. Not that I think it's the best solution, but would have been much cheaper to produce.

>>7249371
>Turok is fucking garbage, but as expected from nintenfags, they'll eat up anything as long as its on nintrando.

At least it is not Independence Day ID4. Which is one of the worst PS1 games that I have ever played, and I have rented it back then. Die Hard Trilogy, was decent. Not the biggest fan of Turok, but I would take it over some of the listed PS1 games in that flyer.

>>7249509
That flyer barely scratches the PS1 library while for the N64 games, those are the only really decent games for the console that I can think of.

>>7246592
>It's amazing how western-heavy the Nintendo 64's software lineup was.
Because only western devs knew how to program games for the console back then. It was a notoriously difficult console to program on. Nintendo barely provided them any assistance so they had to go ask Factor 5 and Rare instead, the only companies that understood the console's capabilities inside out, and the weren't japanese.

>>7249371
Wow. How can you have such shit taste?

>>7249539
>That flyer barely scratches the PS1 library while for the N64 games, those are the only really decent games for the console that I can think of.

Yeah, I know. The movie ID4 did come out that year, and the game was made to promote it. But most definitely shovelware.

>>7249669
>The movie ID4 did come out that year,

The game ID4 didn't come out at the same time as the theatrical release. The game was part of the home video release (VHS, Laser Disc) and promotion. And the Die Hard Trilogy game was part of the Die Hard Trilogy VHS boxset, both released in 1996. And Alien Trilogy (PS1, Saturn) was made to help promote the Alien Trilogy VHS box set.

>>7249550
Some JP companies do so, Konami or other less known.

>>7249568
Explain in less than 2000 characters why it's good.

Kinda

>>7231805
He was right. Every console now has the same features as the DC

>>7240520
He's right. It's just your low IQ that makes his opinion seem crazy to you

>>7231796
holy shit OP shitter btfo first post, but /vr/ niggers still replying, what more proof would you want of this being a containment board

>>7231793
>biggest mistake
That's not Digital Distribution.
Pic related is the real mistake in all of gaming. Without it the world would be 10000000% better.

>>7254891
Can you imagine a world where PC games would still be sold in stores? Or at least in physical form with on-disc data, even if online-only? I guess I was lucky and smart enough to gather a collection, but the average PC gamer only has digital "copies". But even then, you would still have DRM to contend with (Although to be fair, it's pretty easy to crack). If only Blu-ray saw meaningful adoption on PC, we definitely wouldn't be here

>>7238372
The storefronts nowadays that take 30% have a larger installed playerbase than the ones that take a smaller cut. Unfortunately for Nintendo, Sony charged devolpers less and sold more Playstations than Nintendo did N64s. Devs had very little incentive to continue going along with the greedy bullshit that they been dealing with since the Famicom.

>>7247702
Load times are longer on PS1, therefore MM64 > MML.

>>7231793
Eh, CD was right for it’s time, but obviously solid state memory is far better and has won in the end.

>>7254891
this, digital distribution and streaming are cancer

>>7231793
Lol you faggots have to buy 120$ Everdrives in order to play your soi infested games whereas all we need to do is buy a cheap modchip and a stack of 50 cds for less than 30 bucks and we're good.

>>7232283
False.

My DVD drive that came with a common Compaq could read it.

>>7238493
Or Zip drives.

Anybody remember what the first CD based console was?

>>7231793
Going to 3D ruined things to. It was too soon and we could have gotten at least one more amazing 2D generation of games. At least we did get some gems though like MMX4, Oddworld games and SOTN as well as those Capcom fighters.

>>7257871
PCEngineCD

>>7231853
Acceptance doesn't even exist.

>>7257894
That’s what NEC thought, but 3D was the hot new meme everyone fell for. But yes 3D should’ve been pushed back to 6th gen when hardware was powerful enough to make decent looking games.

>>7257934
Yeah my post was wishful thinking of course but really if companies wanted to delay it until the 2000's they easily could have and nobody would have had any choice. The thing is companies obviously wanted to be the first ones to get in on it.

Always did think the N64 was for the most part objectively better for everything besides the massive PS1 RPG games. N64 just didn't have the support is all but it could have been even better. FMV in other games were much less important tbqh and cartridges shouldn't have been sacrificed for it.

>>7257894
>>7257949
I think 3D was inevitable t.b.h. It's easy to appreciate in hindsight that late 2D > early 3D but at the time even early 3D seemed revolutionary. Devs were always going to push for it as soon as possible, even on hardware that wasn't designed for it (AKA the PS1).

Unless companies were literally going to make a "no 3D games" rule, then there's no way they could have stopped it. The PS1 is best known for 3D games despite the hardware being horrible for 3D.

>>7257907
Interesting

>>7255663
>My DVD drive that came with a common Compaq could read it.

Not the data layer, unless it was one of the few DVD drives that could read it. You can still put the Sonic Adventure Dreamcast GD-ROM disc into a PC and actually find desktop backgrounds and a few other goodies hidden on it. But the game data area is not accessible.

>>7258168
Soulful disc drive

>>7257934
Suck NEC didn’t use M2 PowerPC for their next gen console.

>>7249484
What your thoughts on Nintendo Neptune?

>>7259406
>>7259413
>>7259416
You have a medical disorder.