/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7233140
The only hardware limitation that fell off in 6th gen was filesize due to the proliferation of the DVD format, which could carry up to 8GB which was ten times what a CD could carry. The PS2 in particular was a PITA to develop for.

This is a retro game.

oh no no no he's still at it

>>7233186
Haha just shit posting bro since that's the hip thing to do now xD

>>7233249
I guess so since you won't stop shitposting about the rule change.

>>7233140
The 6th gen is also bound to the hardware limitations of the era in which it was produced, you fucking idiot. Goddamn fucking troglodyte moron.
Hell, that definition also applies to modern games, you daft cocksucker.

>>7233186
Jannies don't know how to clean up their own assholes, let alone this board.

>a product of the hardware limitations of the era in which it was produced.
So you're saying everything is retro, since every era has its own limitations. We haven't reached limitless computing power yet.

Report for spam/flood

>>7233296
If this is what you take away from this post then you are severely mentally retarded.

>>7233361
Either debate the argument or don't bother replying.

>>7233140
6th gen still had limitations compared to previous gens, though they're a bit more subtle than the differences between 6th and 7th+.

6th gen just seemed like it had less cutscenes while in 7th gen it became the norm to have hours and hours of boring cutscenes while they became a higher percentage of total gametime. There was less visual clutter and physical prop clutter in 6th gen with more focus on textures to add detail. And even if a game was trying to look realistic, it still ended up with what now feels like a distinct art style and a lot of people seem to prefer the lighting in older games.

The biggest limitation removal for 6th gen was on gameplay IMO, it felt like a lot more was being done in that area, which didn't seem to carry over to 7th and even took some steps back in some cases.

>>7233183
OP if you're the one who posted this you're a megatard.

>>7233140
Based my friend

>>7233140
6th gen certainly a retro, no matter what. Reason why? Early "modernization" like hardware

>>7233140
How long are you going to seethe over the rule change? Just get over it grampa.

>>7233140
The problem is the label "retro." 6th and even 7th gen games are retro now. What you're describing is too old. Try vintage, antique, or ancient.

>>7233140
If retro games are a style and not based on the passage of time, then Shovel Knight is now allowed here. You can only have style or time, you can't use style and time to spin your web of lies.

>>7233765
But not the same style as OP, therefore not retro

>>7234341
I've been arguing for style over age since the rule change. I've always advocated for GBA since it is mostly a mobile snes jrpg machine.

>>7234341
Not op, but shovel knight isn't a product of hardware limitations

>>7234348
Style is super vague. You're just asking for every thread about games on the edges to become a fight. People could argue Dragon Quest XI is retro style.

cope
seethe

>>7234378
How do you know if a game is a product of hardware limitations? Half the games of the past were about pushing tech to the brink, just like today.

Retro gaming is a style of game that is a product of the hardware limitations of the era in which it was produced. 5th gen is not retro.

>>7233296
I don’t fully agree with OP’s definition but devs today don’t really think about how much memory, storage or processing power their games take up anymore. A simple Tetris or Solitare game can be 12GB while Doom can fit on a calculator because there’s no need to optimize games anymore.

All games have limitations but when you look at Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot or FF7 the impact those limitations have is far more prominent and easier to recognize than in modern games, whose hardware is powerful enough for most developers to ignore the limitations.

>>7234341
>>7234348
Agreed. I for one am looking forward to being able to make Undertale threads on /vr/. It's a true retro classic imo.

The Playstation 2 has severe hardware limitations, no clue what you're talking about OP.

>>7234403
>game apes a system from 20 years ago
>How do you know if a game is a product of hardware limitations?

>>7233249
Well please stop. It's ruining the board for those of us who want to conduct legitimate conversations.

>>7234407
They actually do to some extent. Maybe not things like raw size but you know all those weird slow sequences in FFVII Remake where you're squeezing through fences and shimmying past debris? That's a trick to hide loading. You have to slow down, the camera gets real close so you can't see the environment, and the assets are loaded so you don't see texture pop in and shit. Hardware limits still define a ton of design decisions. You can tell by looking at the abject failure to do this properly in Cyberpunk.

You know what's more fun than talking about 6th gen games? Bitching about them every day!

>>7234417
I'm talking about those old games retard. Who's to say Tetris was a product of limitations and not just a game about falling blocks with no real fear of it butting up against hardware limits?

>>7234415
Lol

>>7234447
Or that basically every 7th gen game uses billboards because you can't tell the difference in sub 720p.
"Limitations" has nothing to do with why one might find many newer games boring. Many of them are boring because they are made for the lowest common denominator of a much bigger target audience than anything on the SNES. Stop buying those types of games and problem solved.

>>7234378
It doesn't matter going by OP's definition. OP defined retro as a style of game that happens to have been borne out of hardware limitations, not as a game that is limited by hardware. Thus any game that plays in that style is retro even if the game is not itself limited by hardware.

As an analogy, pickling is a style of food preparation that is a product of lack of refrigeration. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to pickle something if you have access to refrigeration.

Arguably a bigger distinction between retro and modern game design moreso than any time period or design philosophy is the proliferation of middleware. That's what actually made games annoyingly samey.

>>7234453
>I'm going to make a puzzle game with falling blocks
>What are the blocks going to look like
>Well, the gameboy has a 4-tone screen with no color at 160x144
>What is it going to sound like?
>Well the game boy has such and such sound hardware, so it's gonna sound a particular way.
Etc

>>7234464
What even counts as "borne out of hardware limitations"? No game can do 120fps at 8K because of hardware limitations. And we know they damn well would if they could. So they're all "borne of hardware limitations" as we speak.

>>7234482
>Tetris was created on Game Boy
Zoomers are great at revealing themselves without even knowing it.

>>7234483
I know. It's a shitty definition. There's also no single style that all games from before 2000 and only those games share. OP is stupid and a whiner.

>>7234490
Oh no, I'm not a tetris historian.
That doesn't dismiss my points at all.

>>7234483
8K is not meaningfully different from 1080P

>>7234527
So now its "meaningful hardware limitations"? Pick a spot for your goalpost.

>>7234483
>What even counts as "borne out of hardware limitations
The glaring difference between 2D and 3D aka 4th gen and 5th gen.

>>7234524
How is any of that different from modern designers contemplating texture memory, cache, resolution? Sure they're not worried about sprites being limited to four colors and shit but they're still clearly designing games around what the hardware can and can't do.

>>7234535
Are you retarded?
That's the fucking crux of the entire argument. Technology is advanced to the point where you can do prettymuch whatever.
NES sound: It's very limited chiptune
SNES sound: It's limited chiptune
Genesis sound: It's limited chiptune but with diffferent chips so it sounds distinctly different
Playstation sound: It's CD quality and can sound like anything
Gamecube: It can sound like anything.
PS2: It can sound like anything.
PS5: it can sound like anything.

>>7234541
Because modern game designers are not making 2D games anymore.

>>7234546
SNES and Genesis music are not chiptunes dumb zoomer.

>>7234557
Imagine being this dumb.

>>7234472
What is middleware? Like game engines and stuff?

>>7234546
Raytracing is just now becoming possible. That's pretty goddamn meaningful as a major graphical boost, comparable to the visual fidelity bumps periodically made in the 80s and 90s. Your definitions are vague nonsense.

If it's 3D, it's not retro.

>>7234568
Pretty much. Outside software engines. They started to pop up in the 90s and now are universal. Before that game engines were all built in-house so there was a lot more distinctive feel. This is largely what contributes to the perception that retro games had "soul."

>>7234560
Imagine thinking that the synthesized orchestras of 4th gen Square games are chiptunes.

>>7234569
What does raytracing actually get you? How much of that can be faked with graphics tricks?
There's a significant difference between
>"We can only have 8 sprites on screen at one time"
and
>"We can calculate light bounces in real time."

>>7234593
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiptune#FM_synthesis
low-grade autistic retard

>>7234606
So the difference between the color palettes of the NES and SNES aren't meaningful? After all, you technically could do games like Super Metroid with a fraction of the colors.

This is getting dangerously close to "but graphics don't matter" silliness.

>>7233140
Man you must have massive brain damage

>>7234623
There's a point at which advancements in technology don't really matter anymore.
24 bit color has been around for decades and that's still the standard.

>>7234659
You have brain damage if you think 6th gen is retro and has any resemblance to actually retro games (<= 4th gen).

>>7234698
>retro

>>7234606
Lighting doesn't need to be "faked", it can be baked in by having an artist create it. Raytracing is just a procedural, artless way to do it so that it is easy.

>>7234685
You could easily argue raytracing is the biggest development in graphics since the PS2. I'm not even disagreeing in principle that there is a sense that gaming "plateaued" at some point. But the rationales being expressed here make no sense because it runs up against the fact that a ton of advancements in the 90s were largely incremental too. We thought Donkey Kong Country was the shit but it was mostly a trick. The underlying nature of the game was no more complicated than Super Mario Bros 3. It was arguably simpler than Mario 3. Even the differences between FFVI and FFVII were mostly illusory. Squat sprites on static tiles vs squat poly models on static prerendered images isn't some giant leap if you really want to tear it down. Mode 7 was a nifty trick. Any one of these things you could have been like "what do these REALLY contribute when it could be done in this other older way"? You can't pooh pooh raytracing but then be like "mode 7 man, that was a big deal." It's just blatant bias at that point.

>>7234726
What you are describing is 'faking it'

>>7234743
FF7 has very high poly count battle scenes and some of the pre-rendered backgrounds seamlessly transition into FMV and back. You are downplaying what the game did, graphically.

>>7234726
What does it mean then?

>>7234743
From a gameplay perspective, I agree. Those aren't really any different.
From a graphics perspective, I don't.
You can't fake mode 7 without some really clever graphics tricks and those aren't computationally free. You can't fake playstation graphics on a snes
You can fake high poly models with texture maps. You can fake reflections and lighting. You can fake shadows.

>>7234752
The whole game could be done in SNES graphics if they wanted to. My point is that the idea that "its only superficial, what does it BRING?" is a silly thing to toss out at modern advances when they could easily apply back then too. FFVII didn't REQUIRE any of its PlayStation-ness to exist. But the fact that it had that stuff mattered. How is "Psh raytracing? Just do lighting like before." not just as needlessly cynical?

>>7234762
Guys I'm not saying those things dont matter. I'm using the "they dont matter" argument as a way to illustrate how silly it is to say that about about raytracing, subsurface scattering, etc.

>>7234775
>The whole game could be done in SNES graphics if they wanted to.
No shit, its called a "de-make". FF7's mechanics are more simplistic than 6's anyway.
But you're talking about graphics, and FF7 has more detailed battle models than most RPGs on the platform, as well as actually using FMV in a clever and interesting way.
I don't know, maybe it is the fact that the games they used to demo raytracing are fucking Minecraft and Quake 2, and there's nothing you can do to make either of those games look good.

>>7234775
Not
>"What does raytracing bring to gameplay?"
But
>"What does raytracing bring to graphics?"
>>7234785
Sure, improve the tech, advancements are great, but there is a limit to how much that actually matters before you venture into audiophile territory.

>>7234818
Ok but what does that have to do with whether something is retro or not? Judging that based on anything but the passage of time is arbitrary and completely subject to individual biases. "Games stopped being retro when advancements stopped mattering so this 45 year old Gamecube game is still not retro" depends a ton on when people personally think we've had enough diminishing returns.

>>7234862
Well, graphics is one thing, but technological limitations for gameplay mostly, though not entirely, disappeared around gen 6
A PS2 game is much closer to a PS3 game than it is to a PS1 game
Essential gen 6 is 'modern' and thus not retro.

>>7234490
I'm 35 and thought Tetris started on the Gameboy because no one fucking heard of it before that.

>>7234908 continued
>>7234862
>Judging that based on anything but the passage of time
It's time plus change. If you have something that has been in use for 200 years unchanged, it's still modern.

>>7233140
>>7233140

Your DNA sequence and whole existence till this point is a product of compound human failures. Your opinion is worthless.

>>7234908
You're right but it's going to be real silly if 2002 or whatever is where we forever start talking "modern gaming." At some point these machines are going to be straight up vintage. It's not like we call every post-silent era film a "modern movie" even if its from 1940.

>>7234934
Your entire post reads like a lonely miserable incel fedora atheist who thinks he is intelligent but is braindead from drinking Pepsi and eating Oreos all day

>>7234929
Cars can get classic plates if they're 20 years old.

>>7234943
>At some point these machines are going to be straight up vintage
Yeah, really what we need is a way to separate the different eras into different boards like <=4th gen on /vr/ and then 5th to 7th gen on /v2k/. If only there was a way to do this.

>>7234954
I am not about to dive into car autism. My car literally can't display the current date.

>>7234946
>braindead from drinking Pepsi and eating Oreos all day
Kek

>>7234943
I'm not a film guy but I suspect modern films started in like the 80s.

>>7234934
I know exactly what kind of person you are from this post. You're not even half as smart as you think you are.

>>7234995
This one's tough. The 60s is where a lot of modern shit popped up like method acting and the disavowal of the Hays Code. The 80s was huge for technical advancement. The 90s with CGI...

>>7233274
there are no hardware limitations on PS3 onwards

>>7235078
The PS3 couldnt even run games as well as the Xbox 360.

>>7233186
Based.
These autstis don't realize that /vr/ has been shit for years

>>7235078
based retard

>>7234407
Yes they do. They have to fix even the slowest of memory leaks, and decide when to load separate areas, or how much area to keep loaded at a time even in a continuous game, which affects gameplay. I'm sorry to break this to you but you really shouldn't talk about game programming if you're this level of ignorant about the subject.

>>7235161
We realize it's been shit for years, but the frequency and magnitude of the shitposts increased drastically since 6th gen was allowed.

>>7233183
Lol

>>7234441
Yes... legitimate discussion like console wars, RE4 threads, speccy/aussiekun scotformer threads, ecelebs, wojak/pepe threads, "I dont like retro games" threads, most of which wouldve been cleaned up by the jannie or shamed if posted in old /vr/. Just the way I like it.

>>7235745
All that shit drowns out what little legitimate discussion is left.

>>7235745
There were plenty of shitposts before the rule change.

>>7235891
I dont understand this.
>there are a bunch of shit posts so let's just open the shitgate and cover the board with shit

>>7235903
6th gen isn't what ruined the board. It was going downhill for a long time and imo is doing better now than it was shortly before the rule change.

>>7235913
So you think the board is better now with a significantly higher amount of /v/ kids whose will spam the same memes all day? What?

>>7235924
Before there was still daily spam of console wars, SMB3 vs SMW, Dual Orb 2, overrated games general, Sega System, FFVII/OOT is overrated, and other stuff I'm forgetting. At least it's a little more varied now and people can mention GBA games without someone freaking out and spamming scat porn.

>>7235959
Yeah, but I am saying that the board was maybe 60/40 good/garbage now its basically 20/80 good/garbage

>>7235972
Also the speed at which the garbage comes is insane now. Niche threads drop off the board in a few hours now. It's absurd.

>>7235975
Yeah that's a fair point. Idk maybe I've just become desensitized but I don't feel like it's any harder to keep a thread I like going now than it was before.

>>7234995
80s movies aren't like today. We don't get original shit like Ghost Busters now. This era is all existing IPs.

>>7236652
Horror movies are great though. Can't remember the last time I've seen a recycled of an existing IP.

>>7236652
The 80s was pretty heavy on the IP milking too. It had great stuff but it usually sparked less good and sometimes outright garbage sequels like Caddyshack II.

>>7234995
Dude you're retarded

>>7234415
works great on my machine

>>7234995
I feel the biggest shift from 60s to 70s. Movies got gritty and the stage play feeling completely went away

>>7236694
stranger things isn't 80s little zoom

>>7236652
>>7236694
I don't mean in terms of good movies exactly, I mean in the sense of production and filmmaking technique. I watch anything prior to the 80s and there's all these weird exterior shots, hyper-saturated color, weirdly loud sounds and just they are filmed differently. But like I said I'm not a film guy.

>>7236820
Dude you're retarded

>>7235336
>intensify shitposting and crying about newer consoles being added
>uh why is shitposting increasing
Fuck you. They're not gonna change it back, you just want to make everyone else miserable.

>>7233140
Yup

>>7233140
It goes by years

>>7237016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0ikW7pVa_I

>>7235078
These are the retards who make "not retro" posts.

>You said you left some money in a shoebox?
>xbox? That's not retro

Wrong. Its the age. Die mad about it.

>>7233140
>Retro gaming is a style of game that is a product of the hardware limitations of the era in which it was produced
>>Trolling outside of /b/
So basically any year before the next brand new GPU/console reveal. Fuck off. >>>/b/

Whether you like it or not, 6th gen is the last gen when games were made BY classical gamers FOR classical gamers. After that there was massive shift on target demographics, the industry workforce, and, as a consequence, on design philosophy.