/vr/ - Retro Games

>scanline generator

I have no words for this. Just...

Why...

>>722889
because mah authenticity

>>722892
So... Ugly...

Just use your fucking CRT, OP.

>>722889
Because hipsters cant be assed to use a CRT

>http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/other/vga-scanlines.htm#small
>narrow scanlines
>wide scanlines

This person is fucking retarded.

Some people here just think that CRT = Scanlines, but you're even worse because you actually have a working CRT to compar-

>get rid of the behemoth

Oh, you're even worse.

"If I put vertical dark stripes all over the image it looks juuuuuuuust like a CRT, right? Sooooo authentic! Scaaenlinezzz!!!"

Looks just like my old CRT!

>>722892
>shitty sega cd pic
>zsnes menu bar

>>722909
>vertical dark stripes

horizontal too mainstream or something?

>>722895
>hipsters

This is the most useless and overused word in /vr/. I now equate it to a fat, acne-ridden neckbeard with bad breath and even worse body odor hovering over a filthy SNES.

Find a new fucking buzzword to use. Change it up every couple of months.

>>722892

i also upscale to 1080 pee, 16:9

>>723028
No, I rarely use the word. Scanlines are hiptershit if you aren't playing on a CRT. It is just that simple. An LCD cannot accurately display pre 6th gen graphics, and for some reason, hipsters, or pretentious teens with no real knowledge of the subject matter, equate this to missing scan lines, when in fact it is the way the CRT displays the picture, the scanlines are just a by product of aperture grille style CRTs and were never present in most CRTs, but these teens aren't old enough to remember that. If you have a Sony CRT, good for you, if not, why bother with scanlines at all?

>line double in software
>erase half the lines in hardware

Makes total sense

>>723124
A 120Hz LCD can display pre-6th gen graphics almost as well as a CRT using black frame insertion.

>>723158
Very good. So my question stands, why the fascination with scanlines? They are not what holds the integrity of the picture, it is the monitor itself. And of CRTs, most do not use aperture grille, but Chromaclear style shadow masks.

So why scanlines at all?

My CRT doesn't have scanlines.

>>723124
I use very light scanlines for NES simply because i like the 'texture' it gives to those long areas of a single solid color. Am i a "hipster" too?

>>723182
Most don't due to the rise of chromaclear.

>>723183
I don't think so. I prefer having texture too. It makes for less visual fatigue. All I am saying is that the scanlines are not more accurate.

>>723174

with many games the scanlines appear to add detail. i say "appear" because of course it doesn't add them, but the image looks more detailed imo.

>>723183
"Yes".

>>723174
You got visible scanlines on all but the very shittiest CRTs because of the repeated field polarity hack used to display 240p on a 480i display.

However, VGA DOS games used the same art tools and style and they were intended for 480p displays, so they used line doubling instead of scanlines. Pic is from Alien Carnage (1998), scaled to correct aspect ratio and blurred to look like it did on CRTs of its time. Note that there are no scanlines, the individual pixels are clear, and there is dithered fake transparency just like in a Genesis game. This proves that scanlines and composite video blur are not required.

>>723206
I don't care what people do. I play on a CRT with Chromaclear. It makes games look sharper than my HD TV does.

I was just saying that people are obsessed with scanlines for the wrong reasons, and it seems like if you are going to be making a scanline generator like the OP, it would be better to just invest in a $10 CRT.

>>723212
Do you have the 1:1 pic? I want to see how it looks with video blur.

>>723218
2:1 here, but it's integer ratio so it looks the same.

>>723212
By "scanlines", most of the time, people mean the physical wires in aperture grille displays. The space between scan lines. I know all CRTs have scanlines, or clusters.

these "scanlines" what are actually thin wires used to hold phosphor bars are what stop bleeding in the aperture grille CRTs when the red bar expands, but they also make horizontal black lines across the picture. A sacrifice you would be willing to make when comparing the red bleed between shadow mask and aperture grille. But when they are just emulated, all they do is block picture. There is no red bleed in the first place.

>>723230
Nobody means that. Those lines are never lined up with the video lines, and they are too small for anything less than 4K resolution to display. "Scanline" always means the gaps you get between the video lines when you display 240p content on a 480i display.

>>723224
Looks pretty good IMO, too bad there's not an option for this on DOSBOX, even though the original monitors were super sharp.

>>723238
Except that's totally inauthentic. It looked like >>723224 on the real hardware.

Your aspect ratio is wrong, you have far too much horizontal blur, and not enough vertical blur. You can barely read the text. It looks much worse than it did on the real hardware.

>>723238
>>723238
Except that's totally inauthentic. It looked like >>723212 on the real hardware.

Your aspect ratio is wrong, you have far too much horizontal blur, and not enough vertical blur. You can barely read the text. It looks much worse than it did on the real hardware.

>>723253
I didn't ever state it looked like that on the real hardware. I'm not computer illiterate and I have 3 CRT monitors in my house. Please stop projecting, I just like the faux transparency created by horizontal blending, it's the equivalent of AA for 2D. Just the fanciness of it.

>>723236
They display because they are physical wires dampening the bars. That is what the horizontal black lines in emulators are supposed to look like, and they mostly do a fine job at doing so, I just think it is strange for people to do it for "muh authenticity" when they most likely played on a shadow mask TV.

>>723273
There are exactly 2 horizontal damping wires in aperture grille CRTs. They do not line up with any particular video line, and they are definitely not "scanlines". Nobody bothers simulating these lines for some unknown reason.

>>723280
Well shit. I did not know that. I will stop talking about aperture grille now.


But I always thought the lines on aperture grill tvs WERE the dampening wires. Shit. DO they just appear because the gun is less active because no mask?

>>723285
Scanlines appear on any 480i CRT where you're displaying 240p by sending all the fields with the same polarity like old consoles do. How obvious those scanlines are depends on how sharp the CRT is. Aperture grille CRTs are very sharp so the scanlines are obvious.

>>723294
That makes a lot more sense.
But still, most people had a shadow mask because sony had aperture grill locked down. So "authenticity" is a poor excuse to use filters.

I would like a scanline generator, because I have no room to put a CRT. I own a LED TV, and playing SNES games looks like shit because the pixels bleed into each other, scanline generators make the pixels more prominent, the way they were meant to be seen.

Or a Framister, oh god framister.. why are you $400?

>>725565
I'd buy the shit out of the XRGB if it wasn't 500 goddamn dollars

>>725924
>>725565
You can buy RGB-VGA upscalers on ebay for $30 and wire the scanline generator to it,

You are limited to a max resolution of 1280x768 but it looks just as good as an XRGB for 10% of the price.

>>725936
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/other/rgb2vga.htm

>>723021
you must be new here lol

Filters are needed to enjoy the graphics as the artists intended. For example, in this picture the text on the sign is unreadable.

>>726325
>guaranteed replies

>>726325
Using an NTSC filter we get a nice, readable sign and an overall better picture, with more texture on the floor and roof tiles.

>>726325
oh boy it's this post again

gr8b8m8

forget scanlines, window glare is much more authentic

>>726325
>>726332
https://archive.foolz.us/vr/search/image/VIRDOc%2BVwn5e%2B%2BF%2F%2FHlkhQ%3D%
https://archive.foolz.us/vr/search/image/MdEmLpKwaIqyiKLGkJStLg%3D%3D

>>726360
okay 11/10

that's funny

>>726360
Aspect ratio is much more important.

>>723230
>>723273
>By "scanlines", most of the time, people mean the physical wires in aperture grille displays.
>They display because they are physical wires dampening the bars. That is what the horizontal black lines in emulators are supposed to look like
Jesus fuck. Literally nobody in history has ever meant that and you clearly have absolutely no concept of how CRT tech actually works.

At least you're polite enough to tripfag so I'm not forced to read anymore of your ill-informed bullshit being presented as fact.

>>723174
>most do not use aperture grille, but Chromaclear style shadow masks.
Please tell us what that means in terms of scanlines, because I for one would love to hear it.

Spoiler: The answer is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING.

>>726360
wtf, which donkey kong is that?

What the fuck does this do

What does it do it to?

>>723183
Thats okay. Scanlines are generally useless except for this.
Generally, upping contrast and saturnation will do 90% of what you wanted scanlines to do anyhow. All you are relly lacking then is a phospor afterglow filter so that things likes waves(Sonic) or CRT static flicker images would work properly(Megaman 2).

>>723124
>>723174
A lot of non-aperture grille TVs did show scanlines, though. Not as pronounced as a Sony's, but they were there. Only small and shitty, blurry sets truly obscured them.

> daily scanline thread

>>723212
Well, hold on now. If we're talking about a VGA era CRT monitor, games would indeed have looked like that without scanlines, as the monitor's resolution would have been 640x480. Even on a Super VGA monitor, due to the large dot pitch, scanlines would have been nearly invisible on line-doubled mode 13h.

But on newer CRT monitors? There are definitely scanlines. One COULD argue since these games were made during an era where they would not have been present or would have been almost invisible, that is the intended look, but on later monitors, while they are capable of displaying mode 13h games without problems, you would get them.

Pic related. First pic is on an older 14" monitor, second on a more modern 17" monitor.

>>726446
Indeed, shadow masks do not magically make scanlines disappear. The only real difference is that, as they tend not to be as sharp as aperture grille trinitron displays, they are slightly fuzzier, which makes scanlines less visible. Also, by virtue of being the more common CRT tech, most low quality CRTs were shadow mask displays, and so combined with convergence and focus issues, scanlines were obscured further.

>>729243
Also, another reason most people "do not remember" scanlines being there is that, of course, as kids we never even knew there was such a thing, so we never focused on an image close enough to see them or thought to notice them. There is also the fact that said people who never noticed scanlines are comparing them to the simple scanline filters on emulators. So of course, if their predominant exposure to TV scanlines is primarily that of emulators, their first instinct is to think that you'd have to have had a terribly shit TV to have seen an image like that.

>>726360
Even seeing that makes me mad. Fuck. Does the emulator support closing the fucking curtains?

>>729280
>falling for an April Fool's joke

>>729284
no, I appreciate it's a joke. What I mean is seeing that type of glare is invoking all that rage I had at 9 years old with CRT glare.

>>729261
Also we didn't sit two fucking inches from the TV like you do a computer monitor

>>729302
>vr judging scanlines.jpg

There's much more to replicating the CRT look than just adding scanlines. Scanline generators are a waste of time IMO. You can do much better connecting your TV to your PC and running an emulator with a CRT shader, and even then it's not perfect.

>>722885
why would I need a scanline generator when I have a sony PVM?