/vr/ - Retro Games

I don't care about obsolete or objectivity, otherwise I wouldn't be playing retro games to begin with.

>>7223223
Perfect Dark multiplayer is inferior to Goldeneye on a pure enjoyment standpoint.
>>7223303
Cultured attitude anon. There is no such thing as obsolescence in art and entertainment. If it’s good it’s good forever and if it’s bad it’s bad forever.

Nah, both have merit. PD is mechanically better in basically every way, but the 007 skin has a charm that PD does not. If you wanted to play a 007 game at the time, GE was your only real option.

Zoom harder kid.

>>7223314
>implying
Perfect Dark looks better, runs better (somehow), has better weapons, better controls, and way more customization as well as not limiting the amount of players based on map, every match can have 8 AI combatants (compared to a whopping 0 in Goldeneye) whose AI you can even choose from a list ranging from guys that steal weapons to shitheads who aim at you through walls.

>>7223389
Doesn’t it also require the expansion pak?

>>7223223
>obsolete
Aaaaaaaaaaah I'm gonna consooooooom

>>7223389
Yet, despite all of that, it's not a 007 game. You are out of your league here kid, go back to /v/.

>>7223223
two average games, people talk about to this day because it's the only fps on N64

>>7223389
>better
this means nothing. if you prefer bond, you play bond. two games can be great in their own way

>>7223396
Who the fuck -doesn't- have the expansion pack? Imagine going through the trouble of owning an N64 and not playing Perfect Dark or Majora

>>7223485
N64 was the “FPS console” until Xbox took that throne, what are you talking about faggot?

>>7223303
>>7223314
I take issue with this line of thinking. While art and entertainment might not objectively change or become obsolete, it can be outclassed by new media that came out after it.

When people speak of a piece of media "aging", they don't mean it literally changed. It's a figure of speech to say that it doesn't hold up to modern standards. The game may be the same as when it first came out, but (You) are not. If you play a game decades later, your expectations are going to be different due to all the more modern games you've played.

Of course, you can attempt to view a piece of art in the context of the era it released in. This is a common method of analyzing classic media. But it will never TRULY be the same as experiencing it back then. You can't wipe your mind of everything that released after the game and perfectly replicate the attitude and expectation of someone playing Goldeneye in 1997. You can rationalize that the game doesn't have dual stick controls because of the era it released in, but you can't completely forget either. You can't literally become a person who has never played a shooter with dual sticks or m+kb. You can't get rid of the years of muscle memory and un-accustom yourself to those things. On some level, you will always compare it to the games you know come after it.

The notion that games don't age is an overly pedantic and literal way of looking at things. The game is the same as it always was, but the player, on the other hand, is not, and never will be.

>>7223520
Sure, that doesn't mean I care though. Why would I play older games knowing I might enjoy them less or not at all because of modern standards? Standards are so subjective and gaming as a whole is an incredibly subjective experience that trying to argue based on objectivity is flawed. In the end what really matters is the player's experience with it and nothing else.

>>7223223
I say Goldeneye has better level layouts most of the time. Some levels are annoyingly mazelike but PD's levels are constructed oddly. Its easy to fuck something up and the enemy AI never feels consistent. I never went into any sort of autistic deep dive to analyze how it all works but seeing as how all the autistic speedrunners prefer Goldeneye over PD I'm willing to assume PD has more annoying fuckery overall. Sometimes I start a level and a guard is already running right at me like I alerted him when nothing happened yet. The Chicago level is one I never ever ever really figured out how to do consistently.

So PD has higher highers and lower lows

>>7223396
you could play without the expansion pak but it is shit most of the features are locked out if you didnt have one

>>7223327
Pretty much this. PD being better doesnt make GE worse, its still fun to playthrough. I actually find some aspects more enjoyable and overall more challenging, like the game often throwing infinite enemies at you.

>>7223520
Talk about pedantic, feast upon your own tasteless word salad.

Great art and entertainment never loses it’s value, for all great art is timeless.

Within gaming culture Goldeneye has become legendary. It is fondly remembered and implanted within the collective minds of it’s generation of players. It’s influence is permanent.
Where you fail is that you see limitation of the canvas as a barrier. The now archaic control scheme is patented to how it is experienced. Playing Goldeneye with its intended controls is part of that experience, it adds to the enjoyment.

Today we have virtual reality first person simulations and shooters and it’s only going to get more immersive as the market pushes forward. Will that make the tactile sensation of holding a controller and the limitation of a screen a backwards piece of entertainment that could never be “TRULY” enjoyed again?

In the future, you will be able to link your brain to a virtual world where anything is possible, that is the end goal of video games becoming perfected as a medium.

Now you seem like a bright enough anon to know the issue with perfection in art?

>>7223327
>PD is mechanically better in basically every way
it's not even
>terrible frame rate
>no sound when bullets hit people
>skinny, feminine guards
>cluttered reticle
>squeaky guns (and weaker on standard ones think of the pd shotgun)
etc.
i still replay ge single player and only fire up pd to get bots on the ge mp maps as if i was playing ge

>>7223223
They were both obsolete on release if you owned a PC and a mouse

>>7223223
Let's be real, this board became gay the moment you posted, OP.

>>7223223
>this game sucked when it came out
Yes

>>7223223
Both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are shit. Both completely unplayable today like most N64 games.

>>7223626
Goldeneye is only more popular in speedrunning because there are more copies of it and it doesn't require the expansion pack.

>>7223520
>When people speak of a piece of media "aging", they don't mean it literally changed. It's a figure of speech to say that it doesn't hold up to modern standards. The game may be the same as when it first came out, but (You) are not. If you play a game decades later, your expectations are going to be different due to all the more modern games you've played.

>>7224548
I genuinely think it has better levels. Most of the shit in Perfect Dark looks like copy pasted corridors with lots of repetition.

>>7223223
Pretty sure the multiplayer had an even shittier frame rate so no.

>>7224879

PD has tons of escort missions, GE has like 1. Elvis and Dr Carol can glitch out at any time to no fault of your own.

I wanna know why Goldeneye still has better enemy hit reactions then every game released today. It's baffling.

>>7223223
I just started replaying Goldeneye yesterday and made it to Severneya
I think most people's complaints are the lack of objectives/difficult enemies on skill levels below 00 Agent. The game is still very fun even though the framerate and aiming are kind of horrible. I think PD is the better game but both are classics that I would recommend to any FPS fan.

>>7224880

yea from what I remember PD really shit the bed in terms of frame rate during multiplayer while goldeneye was mostly stable as long as you werent spamming explosives

>>7223520
>your expectations are going to be different due to all the more modern games you've played
you are right, I expect the retro game to be good and not a casualized piece of shit spiced with woke propaganda

>>7223303
>otherwise I wouldn't be playing retro games to begin with.
Obsolete means completely inferior and with no redeeming points. A game is a piece of creative art so it can't be obsolete.

(fuck off idiots who might reply saying videogames are not art, I mean art in the loosest possible sense as opposed to something functional).

>>7223520
Speak for yourself. I've no issue going between modern and older games. Games I loved as a kid are just as good now as they were back then, if not more so from additional perspectives I've gained over the years.

Your close-minded view will only keep you shuffling out old products for new ones. Sounds more like you are supporting a business model rather than an art form. Do you also often tell people that the only reason they like so called outclassed games is purely because of nostalgia?

>>7223881
Came here to post this. That being said Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are both still fun especially with some mates. Filling up a couch with your mates and drinking some beers and playing some N64 on a cold winter's night is just as enjoyable as it was in the 90's no homo.

Would we rather play it with mouse and keyboard? Of course we would. Would we suck it up and use the N64 controller so we can do couch multiplayer with original hardware? Absolutely. The entire point of this board is that obsolete =/= not fun.

>>7225536
>obsolete =/= not fun
The 22-year-old zoomer who made the thread does not understand this though.

>>7223223
Both are outclassed by pic-related, let's be real.

>>7223223
Agreed. Back when Perfect Dark was coming out, EVERYONE I knew was hyped for it, being the spiritual successor to GE, and with hopefully improved gameplay. And the gameplay actually was a lot better. After PD came out, me and my friends pretty much forgot about GE and played only Smash Bros. and PD. We put so many hours into PD's multiplayer, just doing regular matches and trying to beat the challenges.

>>7223753
You make a good point about perfection in art, but you assume that perfection is perfect realism. Some people may think that way, but I think of games as abstraction. A better game isn't a realistic one, but a more fun abstraction. Neither an N64 controller nor a mouse and keyboard offer a realistic simulation of shooting a gun, but m+kb offers a more fun and ergonomic abstraction than an N64 controller.

That's what makes Goldeneye seem dated. While the intended controls may be part of the experience, that experience does not hold up for most people after experiencing M+KB or even modern gamepad controls.

>>7224990
> Speak for yourself. I've no issue going between modern and older games.
> Your close-minded view will only keep you shuffling out old products for new ones.
Neither do I. I'm not trying to make an "old good, new bad" argument. While console shooters progressed far beyond Goldeneye, there are just as many genres that have regressed and become worse over time. Being old doesn't automatically make a game outclassed, but many games do become outclassed as expectations change. Of course, I neglected to mention in my original comment, the reverse can happen as well. As this anon alludes to >>7224960 changing expectations can make a game seem BETTER in comparison to modern offerings as well. This has explicitly happened to me with certain games. For example, when I first played Skyward Sword I found it disappointing. Then, after playing BOTW and looking back at all the things Skyward Sword did better, I appreciated it more.

I stand by my statement that time changes expectations and you can never experience a game in exactly the same way as release. However, this is not necessarily a one way street. A game can age well, appearing even better relative to lackluster modern offerings. Or, it can age badly, being outclassed by modern offerings. The latter is what happened to Goldeneye.

>>7223223
Games don't become obsolete when a sequel comes out, you underage retard. Get the fuck out of my board.

>>7223223
nice digits
for me, it's the combat simulator. they let you customize every aspect of the perfect dark bot multiplayer which made it extremely replayable. the campaign and split screen multiplayer/cooperative games were fun but even PC shooters didn't really have that configurable bot combat at the time. not to say GE wasn't good, it was great, but PD was in the top 3 N64 games.

>goldeneye x is dead
>we will never play goldeneyes single player with PDs updated engine
shit sucks, it had promise

>>7223881
>>7225536
What a pair of utter retards.

>>7225594
the death animations in this aren't mocapped so there's literally no point playing

>>7225605
this is who likes perfect dark over ge: smash trannies

>>7223223
For me it was this.

>>7226350
/thread

Perfect Dark is awesome but it isn't Goldeneye.

>>7223223
Perfect Dark is the Sonic 2 to Goldeneye's Sonic 1.

>>7223223
Sure if GoldenEye was meant to be a bad game.

>>7226350
>>7226627
nostalgia drunks

GE is not as good as PD and before you say it no im not and would gas trannies in camps

>>7226873
I have nostalgia for both of them. Goldeneye is more fun in both single and multi, sorry bud.

>>7223520
they hated jesus because he spoke the truth

>the original star wars trilogy became obsolete as soon as the Phantom Menace came out.
this comparison exaggerates a little but perfect dark suffers from some of the prequel problems. more more more and not better, actually worse
A simple but very illustrative example: the bullet impact sparks.
>GE: a three frame sprite. quite realistic and satisfying enough
>PD: a pattern of 3 to 6 polygonal 3D fat teardrop shaped yellow blobs that float slowly.
Since they are geometry these had to be large enough to not glitch, and move slow enough to not screen tear etc, so we are left with something that has no resemblance to sparks, and doesn't evoke any of feel of harshness/sharpness associated with metal impacting another hard surface, but ooh waah it's 3D and not a 'crappy' sprite

>>7223314
>Perfect Dark multiplayer is inferior to Goldeneye

If you are looking at multi-player maps and weapons sets, I can kind of agree. Perfect Dark does have the Facility Map, Temple Map and Complex map from Goldeneye. And technically the Perfect Dark game engine runs better in 4-player split screen than Goldeneye. And Perfect Dark does have a lot of options/ bots/ modifiers.