/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7178419
>hg101
See that's your problem there

Almost all of the MGS2 hate comes from Raiden switcheroo. The rest comes from the weirdness later in the game. Personally I enjoyed t he game even though it got weird af. It was still a good balance of cutscenes to gameplay. I didn't finish playing MG4 because it was just basically a shitty movie with too much dialogue.

was any MGS really that good?

>>7178419
Hated in the west only because of the shit translation and shit dub

>>7178419
Kaku barely understands Japanese and it shows. Her supposed “literal” translations there are mistranslated and purposely rewritten to make the original dialogue sound far worse than it does. She’s a dishonest and deceptive narcissist who’ll do anything to make herself out to be more capable than she actually is.

Reminder that it was /m/ that ruined Agness Kaku's career
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/7317304/#7319363

>>7178460

>>7178419
>http://blog.hardcoregaming101.net/2012/02/agness-kaku-update-konami-japan.html

>待たせたな!
>You kept me waiting!
>S: Think I'd wait forever [the comment is directed to the player]?

"Mataseta na" is literally "sorry to keep you waiting", and the official translation fixed by people who actually understand Japanese is "kept you waiting, huh".

She's so bad at Japanese that she can't even tell what the subject of a simple line is. Even better, this is Snake's catchphrase and she still fucked it up this hard.

And she's so confident in her abilities that she e-mails this to people as an example of how good she is.

>>7178419
>Solidus has same VA as Snake to mislead player
>English dub changes solidus VA to some fucker who sounds nothing like snake
Why

>>7178486

I've been wondering for a while now why no one's attempted an undub or retranslation of any of the MG games. They're massively popular, have legendary translator drama, and are popular heavily based around the dialogue and writing. Much less well known games have had them already.

This is probably largely my own interests, since I'd love it to become more of a common thing. Stuff like Forbidden Siren 1 is a war crime.

>>7178509
Most "undub" fan translation projects are by amateurs who have no idea what they're doing and MGS is way above their skill level.

>>7178509
Maybe a lot of people just looked at The Twin Snakes with all of its missteps and decided not go on that path? Beside, this is MSG we are talking about here. There is bound to be some kind of troll who will derail everything.

>>7178445
Supposedly Kojima wanted Raiden to sound whiny and uncool, and him having a badass Japanese voice was a mistake. This is reinforced by the fact that Raiden's voice actor uses a much more normal voice in other games.

>>7178419
gameplay wise it's actually great but the story is pretty bad.

>>7178509
>I've been wondering for a while now why no one's attempted an undub or retranslation of any of the MG games.

Fuck huge amount of text. Just play the JP versions if you care that much. If you're gonna do that you've likely played them once so you already know the answers too the puzzles anyways.

>>7178509
What's the story with Forbidden Siren?

>>7178537
Retard

>>7178535
raiden's voice in the later games is either trying to ape david hayter's snake or gravely shouting edgelord.

>>7178564
dilate

>>7178494
Interesting. I know most people like Hayter as Snake and he does an ok job, but my first time playing any Metal Gear game was the demo of Metal Gear Solid 2 (that came with Zone of the Enders) and had the original Japanese voice actors. Snake's Japanese voice is so much better and deeper while Hayter sounds like a high pitched sissy trying and failing to sound like he has a deep tough voice.

>>7178419
Not reading your article, but I played the game back when it originally released and liked it.

>>7178537
Thats every MGS game.

>>7178559
British dub is the only english translated version. Very amateur with strong accents in a moody and aesthetically japanese game. It's also heavily character driven and has lots of text for puzzles and context sensitive actions in the world, so it's a nightmare to play by guide alone.

I've never heard any complaints about the translation itself though, so it'd be perfectly acceptable with an edit to replace the dialogue with japanese and just leave the onscreen text unedited. I played through Drakengard undub that way, which was a big improvement even with some of the censored lines remaining cut.

It’s a miracle MGS2’s localization is as good as it is in spite of Kaku.

>>7178617
Akio Otsuka is a fucking legend and Kojima has literally talked about how Snake is made to be specifically him. Hayter was never Snake and obnoxious Americans being idiots about him led to him being replaced like the expendable shit he always was. And of course Otsuka returned in a big role in Death Stranding.

>>7178619
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748556728/the-untold-history-of-japanese-game-developers/posts/860418

>>7178434
>Almost all of the MGS2 hate comes from Raiden switcheroo.
This. Everyone expected Snake and poof - the hero is actually a bishonen dood.
>waaahhh I play as a fegit, gibs me snek!1oneone
Kojima expected it, like clockwork, which is later reflected in the game's plot. I was also one of these people, but with time I grew to appreciate Raiden as on par with Snake. I mean c'mon, this dude took on multiple Metal Gears himself among other shit, despite being railroaded by (((the Patriots))) all the way through the game.

>The rest comes from the weirdness later in the game.
One of my favorite parts of the game to be honest. I couldn't help but feel so hopeless during the finale.

>>7178445
Why hello there "I'm fluent in Japanese and you are all EOP subhumans" faggot.

>>7178720
Let's face it, Hayter was only good in MGS1. In MGS2 he doesn't sound like a rough nihilistic veteran.

It's always been lame how people turned around on Raiden with the "wow it was so complex and deep that Kojima predicted no one wanted the sequel to feature a completely different and intentionally much lamer character". People who just liked him day one are fine, but it's some stockholm shit to pretend that it's some deep psychological prediction to have figured out players prefer the dude they already like.

Making Death Stranding 2 but you play as Borter Bridges who does the embarrassing poopy and at the end of the game he turns to the camera and declares that he's his own man and will forge his own path in life and after five years of rationalization everyone simultaneously decides it's the highest artist achievement.

>>7178419
No, it's arguably the best in the series. The main reason a lot of people hate it is because of Raiden, even though he perfectly works for the story where Snake wouldn't have. Even looking past the story, the gameplay is fantastic and is perfect arcade-stealth. Not to mention all of the easter eggs and little secrets put in, and looking for them is a lot of fun.
>>7178457
This. Kaku horribly translated the game and later came out and acted like Kojima was the reason for it being localized so badly. I get why Blaustein didn't come back since he was working on Silent Hill 2 at the time, but god he could've got someone better for the localization than her. Honestly it's great at all that the story and dialogue still sounds good after going through her.

>>7178457
>Kaku barely understands Japanese
But she says her family are Japanese, they just lived abroad and she learned English that way.

>>7178568
Yeah in 4 he's' trying to hard to scruff up his voice. It's not even the same raiden from 2 at that point. He's kino in revengence though.

>>7178481
>>7178460
I don't really understand what's happening in that thread. Can someone summarize for a sub 80- iq?

>>7178927
tl;dr
Agness Kaku, a translator, gave an interview to the website in the OP. In it, she talked shit about Kojima's writing. Some anon from /m/ linked the interview on 2ch/2chan. Someone near Kojima saw it and she was blacklisted from the industry.
Also she had some drama with the guy in the e-mail (at the bottom of >>7178481). I kind of forgot what it was.

>>7178457
>>7178832
>>7178935
she stopped posting online because of autists parroting this for years. the hardcore 101 interview makes it clear she was responsible for what made mgs2's writing good. she has way more literary chops than kojima.
>>7178909
and she worked alone on it without having the copy of the game for a long stretch of development.

>>7178419
Nah, just must people expect games to be "dumb" fun and rush from a to b and shoot. MGS2 is the best Metal Gear Solid game to me. The story was really fucking good and Raiden is a relatable character. I agree, that the world building itself is limited and certain characters (Rosemary for example) are bland. Raiden was basically the Brendan Fraser of MGS4, so I won't argue about it.

>>7178419
The AI colonel and Rose talking to Raiden at the end basically predicted social media and the current state of the world. It's uncanny

>>7178948
>and she worked alone on it without having the copy of the game for a long stretch of development.
What does that have to do with me pointing out she must be fluent in Japanese, if her childhood home was such?

Seems kind of fishy. Did people here do a hit-job on her? The only thing that sounds objectively against her is that she lost 4 court cases against that journalist in Europe. But I'm not sure if that implies her case was terrible or simply that it was too hard to prove. Also is there proof of these case outcomes anywhere?

>>7178935
agness is a psycho so i don't put much stock in what she says, iiirc she did some real weird shit to the hg101 guy

>>7178634
>British dub is the only english translated version. Very amateur with strong accents in a moody and aesthetically japanese game.

https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1608050575388.webm

>>7179034
If you look at both sides, I'd trust Kaku's word more than the HG101 dude.

>>7179027
your reply to anon's "doesn't understand japanese" bait my pointing out her unfavorable working environment with konami.

i'm not conflating kojimaphile shitposting with dusty bad-faith internet drama.

>>7178720
in hindsight it actually made sense in story for venom to have a different voice in MGS5 since he's not actually snake.

>Akio Otsuka is a fucking legend and Kojima has literally talked about how Snake is made to be specifically him.
i could believe this in some of the earlier games but i feel like that's bullshit in the later games especially in MGS5 where snake doesn't really have alot of lines to begin with.

>>7179116
>your reply to anon's "doesn't understand japanese" bait my pointing out her unfavorable working environment with konami.
>i'm not conflating kojimaphile shitposting with dusty bad-faith internet drama.
This is incomprehensible. I simply saw a post claiming that translator (Kaku) doesn't know Japanese well or at all. I responded by pointing out that must be nonsense if she grew up in a Japanese home. You replied to me by talking about her conditions at Konami, even though that has no bearing on her fluency.

But I do agree with you that the autists on here seem to have peddled some conspiracy about her, based off a Kickstarter of all things (notorious for scammers).

>>7179147
for goodness' sake anon did you play the game?

i forgot to add [and she still got the job done.] she wouldn't have finished the job---let alone translated it as well as she did---if she weren't fluent in japanese, not to speak of konami's weird hostility (no game copy; she was paid $5000 for the job) making the job more difficult.

>>7178419
Having just played the first 3 games for the first time this past month, no it isn't. In fact, I'd say it's the best of the original 3. I'm not sure what all of this drama about the translation sounding like shit, it sounded fine to my ears. The only part of the game that I'd say is bad is the E.E. stuff, not so much even the escort mission (which is overhated) but how much we're supposed to care about her considering how little we're given to like. The ending is top-tier and the sword controls shockingly well. Wish it hadn't been censored because of 9/11, but oh well.

>>7178419
No, but it did mark the point where Kojima thought he could be poignant and philosophical as opposed to just making a stealth-focused action movie of a game.

To me, the real Solid Snake trilogy is MG1, MG2, and MGS1. After that, the series goes on a new direction with Snake in a mostly-NPC presence.

>>7179053
kino

>>7178535
>Supposedly Kojima wanted Raiden to sound whiny and uncool, and him having a badass Japanese voice was a mistake.
Ah yes, the voice actor Kojima personally chose was just a "mistake", and the one some random faggot over in the western department picked on a whim was meant to be the REAL voice of Raiden.

I'm sure stuff like Olga and Solidus being voiced by Meryl and Solid Snake's VAs in Japanese was another one of those silly little "mistakes", Kojima just couldn't find any more voice actors with a paltry multi million dollar budget for one of the most anticipated titles of the era.

>>7178734
Retard

>>7178909
She’s a fucking “Japanese-American” you retard

>>7178419
I played it a few days ago for the first time on my life right after MGS1, no, it wasn't that bad.

>>7179147
Her own supposed proof of translation skill in OP’s article has her showing that she’s unable to decipher basic grammar.

>>7179147
>I responded by pointing out that must be nonsense if she grew up in a Japanese home.
You don't know what her home life was like. Or how little actual study she's done of the language in the 40 odd years since.

She's a very poor translator to begin with, the MGS2 script is filled with basic errors that make me strongly doubt her ability, like flubbing Snake's catchphrase literally 2 lines into the game. But the bigger problem with her is that she has no business working on anything in a war setting, because she was a middle aged woman with no understanding of how someone in the military might talk. Which leaves us with fantastic lines like "you're not in the military industrial complex now, Dorothy".

She's the western equivalent of Natsuko Toda, although that retarded bitch ruined a lot more works, we're lucky that Agness only fucked up MGS and Katamari.

>>7179147

>>7178484

I dropped mgs2 during the emma stuff, it is way too boring, no good character nor bosses, no good music, the place feels smaller than shadow moses etc...

>>7179202
Well your addition makes it understandable now. Anyway, I've heard of this interview before and I trusted it on the basis that Jeremy Blaustein had made similar criticisms of Konami and Kojima. But I'm only now hearing about all this internet drama she has had since then.

>>7179254
In the interview she says her parents are Japanese but the family had to travel for work, and therefore she learned English outside the home.

>>7179267
True but we don't know that she struggles with Japanese either.

>like flubbing Snake's catchphrase literally 2 lines into the game
How was she supposed to know the canon translation for that?


I'm not going to take at face value the examples of bad Japanese people are posting. Unless you can link to an actual authority on the language saying the same.

>>7179267
Snake has a catchphrase?

>>7179053
based

>>7179337
pretending to be retarded or just retarded?

>>7179361
Just retarded, I don't know what this is referring to

>>7179326
>hur how was she supposed to know basic japanese grammar
Fuck off and die

>>7179326
>>How was she supposed to know the canon translation for that?
What? I don't care about being "canon" when it comes to a catchphrase, My issue is that it's fucking "directed to the player". The line is gibberish in English.

There's also lots of other fun stuff like Agness deciding to put "over" after the first couple of lines and then just stopping. Which doesn't make any sense, because the codec isn't like a fucking walkie talkie, both people can talk over each other no problem, it's full duplex.

>>7179053
no forgiveness for dubs

First time I played through it I really didn't care much for it, turned me off the series until, the trailers for V started coming out and I had to play catch up. It just didn't live up to my pretty skyhigh expecations after MGS1. I rememeber really not liking the graphics, because I kind of loved(and still do) the look of the PS1 game and how it captured the look of the coverr and manuals art. I really wanted the next game to do that again, but instead everyone just looked like a blow up doll.

>>7179391
>My issue is that it's fucking "directed to the player". The line is gibberish in English.
The brackets [ ] are direction, not dialogue. She's guessing that whatever has been said is intended to have a meta tone or relevance to the player. Perhaps Konami's notes were saying that this part is the catchphrase and should be emphasized towards the player (rather than the character).

>>7179381
Again, I won't take anything at face value. I need an authoritative source that it's a lack of fluency, I won't trust self-taught weebs.

>>7179456
>The brackets [ ] are direction, not dialogue
No shit, they're gibberish.

>Perhaps Konami's notes were saying that this part is the catchphrase and should be emphasized towards the player (rather than the character).
Serious question, are you Agness? Because I haven't seen cope this hard in a while.

>I need an authoritative source that it's a lack of fluency, I won't trust self-taught weebs.
Ah yes, people who actually know Japanese aren't an "authoritative" source because they don't have a million views on youtube or something.

>>7178434
>It was still a good balance of cutscenes to gameplay.
No it fucking wasn't.

>>7179467
>No shit, they're gibberish.
>Serious question, are you Agness? Because I haven't seen cope this hard in a while.
Imagine this: a moment where Snake looks directly towards the camera and says his catchphrase. Would you not emphasize that in any particular way when giving voice actors (who don't know the context) the lines?

>Ah yes, people who actually know Japanese aren't an "authoritative" source because they don't have a million views on youtube or something.
How can I be sure you know the language at all, nevermind better than professionals?

>>7179267
>like flubbing Snake's catchphrase literally 2 lines into the game
wait, what? He says "kept you waiting, huh?" in MGS2. What are you talking about?

>>7178445
This

>>7179479
I just spent 3 hours playing 竜が如く0, is that enough of a "credential" for you?

>>7179483
You're right, most of her basic as fuck errors didn't even make it into the game, I guess they had another, real translator on the payroll. Regardless, she did seriously flub that line, not once, but TWICE.

In her attempt to show a "literal" translation over a decade later, she fucked it up again. So not only did she have zero Japanese ability back in 2000, but she had even less in 2012.

>>7179525
>You're right, most of her basic as fuck errors didn't even make it into the game, I guess they had another, real translator on the payroll. Regardless, she did seriously flub that line, not once, but TWICE.
I don't really have a dog in this fight but where did she fuck up that line then?

>>7179534
>>I don't really have a dog in this fight but where did she fuck up that line then?
See >>7178484.

>待たせたな!
>You kept me waiting!
>S: Think I'd wait forever [the comment is directed to the player]?
Both of those "translations" are gibberish.

>>7179540
fucking hell, I'm glad they ran the translations through somebody else before they were finalized. It's not all bad though, there's some good localizations here and there, that line is easily the biggest fuckup.

>>7179525
>I just spent 3 hours playing 竜が如く0, is that enough of a "credential" for you?
That means nothing to me, even if I could verify it.

>You're right, most of her basic as fuck errors didn't even make it into the game, I guess they had another, real translator on the payroll.
Where do you find her original errors? And why do you assume it was retranslated? Maybe the VA said it differently.

>Regardless, she did seriously flub that line, not once, but TWICE.
>In her attempt to show a "literal" translation over a decade later, she fucked it up again. So not only did she have zero Japanese ability back in 2000, but she had even less in 2012.
She said she looked up an official website, right? Maybe it had the wrong Japanese phrase, or she copied it incorrectly.

All in all, don't you see why it's hard for me to trust a random anonymous accusation of not knowing even BASIC Japanese against someone who has served in such high translation roles, who apparently has a sister even more fluent, and who grew up in a dual lingual Japanese home? All I have to go off here is relative authority, it could be that the self-taught weebs just don't know when usual grammer rules are relaxed artistically or something, or anything else. The point is, I can't tell either way besides the authority gap.

Unironically I like it a lot. For what it's worth it was my first mgs, but I like 1 and 3 (and PO and PW) as well.
First, I was a retard and didn't know what was going on, so I played the substance VR missions until I realised there was a story mode.
If you just don't use the ezmode tranq gun there's a lot of good stealth gameplay in it. In fact it's a particular kind of stealth gameplay, which consists of very fast movement and viewcone surfing. The game is designed around this, which is why your main attack is a throw which lets you bypass a guard briefly before he stands up.
It's a great game, with big flaws that turn some people off. I think the fact that you can add in 700+ pure gameplay VR missions indicates that there's some value to the simple gameplay alone.

>>7179564
>>That means nothing to me, even if I could verify it.
It means I know enough to know what the fuck I'm talking about.

>Where do you find her original errors? And why do you assume it was retranslated? Maybe the VA said it differently.
She posted them. Right there:
http://blog.hardcoregaming101.net/2012/02/agness-kaku-update-konami-japan.html
The original garbage she handed in is in green, the new garbage is in blue. Neither made it into the game, somebody with some common sense went over the script and fixed the issue, as well as removing a lot of her awful shit localisations like "mickey finn in a glass of OJ". I wish we had the full Agness first draft online somewhere, it'd be interesting to see just how much utter garbage had to be stripped out by the next poor bastard in line.

>Maybe it had the wrong Japanese phrase, or she copied it incorrectly.
She took the stage script, which has been changed very slightly from the game.

Here's the difference between this line in game, and this line in the stage script
>stage script: 待たせたな!
>game script: ……待たせたな。
You could argue that this led to her fucking it up the second time, but the first time around she sure as shit had the game's script.

>>7179583
Still nothing that can persuade someone that doesn't know the language. Plus, I don't see how this equates to her not being fluent, sounds more like matters of taste.

>>7179653
>sounds more like matters of taste.
She doesn't understand who the subject is, dude.

As an aside, I got bored and went hunting for those files she uploaded, I wonder if there's anything interesting in them?

>>7178419
>agness-kaku
Bitch cunt who needs to shut her mouth. >>7161926

>>7178430
In fairness this was before we knew what a fag Kulata really was, also the interview was done by the Untold Jap Games History author, who later sued Kaku for her shit work.
>>7178948
>the hardcore 101 interview makes it clear she was responsible for what made mgs2's writing good.
No it didn't. Read the original draft of her translation, especially for the Tanker mission. It was even more retarded than the finished translation.
>>7179092
Nope. I especially wouldn't trust her words if you ever saw her old website where she complained about all the other games she translated like Hybrid Heaven. She has an ego problem of acting like she's above the games she works on.

>>7179723
It's all up on archive.org, what a vile cunt.

Found this cute little tidbit from the translation of the tanker chapter:
<KONAMI>
くどいようで申し訳ありませんが、「 eq \o(\s\up 11(スニーク),潜入)ポイント」は、英語でそのまま ”sneak point” ではおかしいでしょうか?固有名詞に近い言葉なので、出来ればそのまま使いたいと思うのですが、ご意見をお聞かせ下さい。
<INTAC> Players love the sneak / stealth aspect of the game but I think “sneak” is a little strange. It has a playful / childish / mischevious nuance about it. “Infiltraion point” or “way point” would be more appropriate for a soldier.

Guess Konami won out in the end.

>>7179728
>スネーク 「こちらスネーク、聞こえるか、オタコン?」
>オタコン 「ああ僕だよデイブ、いや、スネーク(思わず本名を言ってしまい、言い直す)。聞こえる……」
Man, the first script of MGS2 must've been wild. This is from the revisions to draft 2 version, which opens with Snake calling himself Dave.

>>7179763
Or with Otacon calling him Dave, I mean. Now I look like a retard.

>>7179230
>MG1, MG2, and MGS1.
Same game and story 3 times. Great trilogy.

>>7178419
my buddy got me this for my birthday in highschool, I wish more games would make things like this. You could move a camera thru every environment in the game including the part where aresnal gear crash landed in new york which was a gigantic massive city rendering.

>>7179810
this guy covered it pretty well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ97wxQaK-g

See the date...2012, book release in 2014.
Why talk about today ?

If i understand that...
- Agness Kaku make a bad translation for MGS2.
- brags this in interview blaming Konami.
-John SzsczPanik write book reveal all the story about her.
-Kaku "fired" by Square.
-Kaku sue SzczPanik.

Its good summary ?

And today...
-book release
-MGS2 still have bad translation ?

>>7179919
>Kaku sue John Szczepaniak
This is correct. Meanwhile, the people ITT treating her as a bogeyman, seem to think he sued her.

You can't tell what happened 100% for sure because the courts never gave a verdict, but if you compare her account on the "VersusJS" against his account on Kickstarter, hers is more detailed and accounts for most of the arguments he makes, whereas he doesn't challenge a lot of hers. He also seems less active online since then. This is what I *think* went down, adter reading both:
>JS interviews Kaku 2012
>JS starts his Kickstarter and raises money to go interviewing in Japan
>he pays Kaku's sister and colleagues A Lot to interpret, despite them being overqualified for indie journalism
>since he's just an indie journalist he struggles to manage such a busy project and likely clashes with Kaku's ego and professionalism
>both sides leave with animosity, which continues online
>Kaku sues JS for libel
>her evidence seems to be sound? but JS' legal team pull a late switcheroo and suddenly claim JS doesn't reside in the courts' jurisdiction (France), but in the UK!
>the switcheroo is timed perfectly to stop Kaku sueing JS in the UK, because there is a time limit for pursuing it there
>Kaku claims loads of evidence showing JS resided in France, but due to living with/off his parents nothing conclusive?
He also turned to gamergate, reddit, and here to slander her.

It's like a /v/tard fell out with his translator-waifu, so he slandered her bur was able to get away with it due to being NEET/freelancer and parents' sneaky lawyers.

I really enjoyed MGS2. The end shocked me and creeped me out. I loved the way it fucked with me, for instance by pretending to reset the ps2 or telling me it was game over out of nowhere. Really made me feel as if I had no idea what the fuck was going on.

Raiden was alright. He didn't have the same charisma or legacy as Snake but he had some good qualities and kicked a lot of ass.

>>7179246
Kojima doesn't care about what happens in Japan. He does care about how the country responsible for Hollywood movies sees his homage to Hollywood movies.

>>7180064
>You can't tell what happened 100% for sure because the courts never gave a verdict
She lost every case, dumbass
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748556728/the-untold-history-of-japanese-game-developers/posts/1628237

>>7180315
Hello John.

>>7180327
Hey Agnes, reminder you got btfo 8 years ago and we're still laughing at you:
>>7178460
>>7178481

>>7178484
>catchphrase

Wasn't MGS2 the first time he actually said that?

Even if it's the best of a bad bunch "kept you waiting, huh" is pretty dumb too.

>>7179807
Just like any trilogy of action movies, really.

>>7179807
Getting really mad that the Back to The Future series has a time travel plot in all three movies. Like, get a new idea, hollywood.

By the way this thread is exactly the reason why you shouldn't give out interviews if you ever find a job in a creative medium.

>>7179230
>>7179807
MG1 seemed a bit more barebones, a bit more divorced from the rest of the series. It didn't have much in terms of story and I don't think Kojima had much agency back then, it seemed like it was meant to prove that Kojima could make a functional game before he moved on to the more story based projects of MG2 onwards.

>>7180507
It's fine to give out interviews, but holy shit is it dumb to shittalk former employers when you're still in the industry and actively seeking work.

>>7180507
More like don't run your mouth or show off your own shitty work in an attempt to act like you're better than what you work on.

>>7180508
Kojima supposedly wasn't even going to make MG2 until a co-worker on the train told him about Snake's Revenge and asked him to make a real sequel.

>>7178419

Naw it is a fucking amazing game. Graphics, story, gameplay (esp with Substance missions), music. Just wow.

>>7180315
Read my post again, illiterate. I already noted how his page is less detailed and doesn't address her arguments directly.

To use your example: he claims he "won" those cases, as if it were a 50/50 argument that the courts decided on, when in reality it was Kaku pursuing a libel case and JS defending. They both agree her cases were unsuccessful but he says it was due to fabricated evidence but also "based on outdated laws" (note how strange that sounds - that a legal team would not be on top of what's contemporary and ensuring losses aren't attributed to them making stupid cases). Whereas she says they didn't give a verdict at all because they couldn't prove he was a French resident and then it was *too late for a UK libel case (1 year limit)*. I think that last part is what JS is spinning as an "outdated laws" case, simply because it makes more sense. Similarly, because they couldn't prove he lived in France, JS is spinning that as a "fabrication" rather than simply falling short of proof.

The fact that neither refer to a published verdict makes her story sound more reliable: one simply doesn't exist because the French courts wouldn't judge on a case outside their jurisdiction, and the UK outside their 1 year limit. JS could challenge her account but he doesn't, he just gives a more vague summary that obviously favors himself.

And that's just reading each of their drama summaries. Kaku and co. also seem more reliable on personal histories. They are all public professionals with long careers. JS was just an indie journalist, which could easily match Kaku's assertion that he was mentally ill, dependent on parents, and struggling with 9-5 work style while on his trip. Kickstarter is also well known for appealing to desperate types who aren't afraid to scam to success. Whereas she has more respectable credentials and life security.

I get that she may have butchered game translations. But it's quite a leap to assume she is definitely the villain here.

>>7180596
One of the ending points in each is another example: he says she harassed his parents but in what sense? Vague. And again something more detailed corresponds to that on her page: she says they will abandon their libel campaign if JS' parents sign an affidavit, swearing he didn't live in France/with them at that time. JS doesn't say Kaku is asking for insane stuff or that it's a lie or that his parents would be fine to...he simply doesn't address it at all. Same pattern as before. It's another thing that makes Kaku's side look good again, that they'd literally pack it all in if his parents merely swore that their son wasn't living in France. I mean, c'mon! They could even lie about it to protect their son and Kaku would still have to pack it up or look like a liar. Instead it's like she was mostly sure he was living there, and that the parents weren't willing to lie about it, simply remain silent.

>>7180596
>"based on outdated laws" (note how strange that sounds - that a legal team would not be on top of what's contemporary and ensuring losses aren't attributed to them making stupid cases)
Did it ever occur to you that Kaku just had a shit legal team? Because those exist.
>JS could challenge her account but he doesn't, he just gives a more vague summary that obviously favors himself.
Shock of shocks, someone fighting a case wants to look favorable compared to the opposing party.
>Kaku and co. also seem more reliable on personal histories. They are all public professionals with long careers
>running their mouths off about their employers and blacklisted because of it
>original drafts of her translations are so shit they need drastic rewrites
>the one volume of Untold History of Jap Games she did is rife with [CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS PART] and [REDACTED]
>another account of a translator who worked with Agness confirms she's a manipulative cunt
Some long running professional career there, Agness.
>he was mentally ill, dependent on parents, and struggling with 9-5 work style while on his trip. Kickstarter is also well known for appealing to desperate types who aren't afraid to scam to success
No, his only problem was airing this bullshit publicly. Also read the latter volumes of his books, they aren't packed with constant redactions and missing chunks of interviews.

everyone at my school liked it and so did i

>>7180596
>>7180625
thanks for the read anon. why won't they just let it go.

Someone in a previous thread described MGS 2 as a series of "not this part again" segments. It is worth experiencing once for the very prescient story, but has limited replay value.
Also, this game has never been considered "bad", assuming you know what you're getting into.

>>7180715
I agree, but I don't think that limited replay value is something that should be held against games. I very, very rarely replay games and I've always thought that replayability was more of a bonus than something that everything should be weighted towards having.

I generally don't look to video games for deep social commentary. And I think MGS as a series goes overboard with the cutscenes.
BUT this game has aged surprisingly well. It was actually the first place I ever heard the word "meme". 20 years later it's part of our everyday vocabulary. Maybe Kojima really is a visionary or maybe he just got lucky.

>>7181005
Lucky. Subsequent games aren't very clever.

>>7181005
definitely lucky. I love MGS2 but playing the rest of the series jesus it's the odd one out. I never played Policenauts or Snatcher, so maybe those have him being a visionary, I wouldn't know. Death Stranding was also not prophetic, I don't care what people say. Maybe it will be one day but it's way too early to call it and people just wanna suck his dick.

>>7181108
Policenauts and Snatcher aren't really games, per se. And they are extremely derivative to the point of plagiarism, unlike MGS2.

>>7181005
internet meme =/= actual meme
basically what we know as "meme" today just means "internet joke", and even if it goes viral, it still doesn't qualify as a real meme.

>>7180736
I agree somewhat. However, the second half of MGS2 is filled with really unpleasant sections. MGS1 is much better paced, even if I wouldn't say that game has particularly more replay value. If anything, it has less.

>>7181115
are they worth playing? I love Bladerunner, fwiw.

>>7181130
Definitely, they're both awesome games.

>>7181139
thanks, I'll give them a shot. Should I play Policenauts with the original pixel art or with the cel animation?

Has the best story by far.

>>7181159
I played the PSX version because it was the only one with a translation at the time. I don't know all the differences off-hand. They both look good to me. With Snatcher, the early versions don't include the final chapter.

>>7178419
MGS2 was great, I need to replay it sometime soon.
>>7178481
>They intentionally mistranslated my lines. No Japanese person reading them would see me as anything but an arrogant asshole with a serious deficit in interpersonal skills.
That's the impression the English interview gave too, so I kinda doubt it was mistranslated that much.

>>7178434
I know that feeling. Its like you ask for a game console for christmas and your parents get you a sega console. Or like you want some cards from your favorite collectable card craze and your parents get you this thing call YuGiOh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5OsA4fmRto

>>7178435
I thought it was balanced out by the stealth mechanics, the bad ass mechs, and complicated-even-though-ridicilous-at-times plot. Its like a Japanese guy had unlimited funs to make an 80s action movie.

MGS2 is a masterpiece that predicted the future in many many ways

>>7180074
What really fucked with me was the dog tags saying my name. I forgot it asks you your name early in the game at the computers.
I was thoroughly spooked

>>7181253
same. I got to the ending late at night (like 4am late) and seeing that made my fucking head implode, I had no idea what was going on. It was the only time a game has made me question reality, if only for a second.

The MGS series has great writing partially because the stories work as video game stories. They're engaging and hit the perfect tone for the gameplay, making the experience more engaging and entertaining. MGS is a game where you do things like sneak around in a cardboard box and fight over-the-top villains. Something a bit playful and full of movie references is appropriate here. I got the impression from that interview that Kaku doesn't respect or understand video games much.

>>7181261
haha sounds like me and you had the same exact experience. It made me question reality as well for a second. 4AM after a long binge to the end and thoroughly stoned

Best game in the series by a wide, wide margin.

The MGS series has great writing partially because the stories work as video game stories. They hit the perfect tone for the gameplay, making the experience more engaging and entertaining. MGS is a game where you do things like sneak around in a cardboard box and fight over-the-top villains. Something a bit playful and full of movie references is appropriate here. I got the impression from that interview that Kaku doesn't respect or understand video games much.

>>7180508
MGS1 has a better story for a video game

The story is about the scenario, and explains what the player is doing and gives it some gravitas, and lets them anticipate what you will be doing in the future.

Starting with MGS2 it started to get too much into world building fiction with vast conspiracies. Is it a character I can fight? A character I can rescue? Is it a plot device that can go in my inventory? Is it a location I'm going to be in? Then why is it in the story? Sure you can always answer "because its interesting", but if it's going to leave the scope of the medium it better be good. MGS2 just comes off as a dumb story presented in a complicated order.

>>7178434
>I didn't finish playing MG4 because it was just basically a shitty movie with too much dialogue.

filtered

Was anyone else repulsed by emma and the lack of a conversation why controlling the world's information with a submarine is an evil idea?

But by 2020 I'm coming around to thinking it was right.

>>7179723
Based. Kaku is an eternal cunt who needs to go die

>>7178734
Kaku has a whole blog about how much she changed and how much more she wanted to change in mgs2, you don't need to be a gigaweeb to accept mgs2's localization got botched by a dumb bitch

>>7181297
I don't really agree, MGS2 deals with themes of free will and why you do the things you do, and there's really no medium better suited to handle the subject matter. I'm not someone who thinks games always have to be "gamey," but I think MGS2 pulls it off very well. It successfully pulls off the things that would later bog the series down.

>>7181370
Yeah I'm focusing on the bad too much, there's definitely some interesting content in MGS2's story

But I don't want to be misunderstood either. I think any theme can be appropriate for video games, just not any narrative element.

MGS1's themes are pretty bland by comparison

>>7178419
It's one of those games that were pretty good for its time. Nothing groundbreaking. However how it foretold the future of American thinking is beautiful. Aged well because of that

>>7181159
The Saturn version was just translated and that has the most content. It seems to be Kojima's definitive version from what I've read.
I personally hated the game but the story was interesting. It was like a more cynical Zeta Gundam when it comes to living in space.

>>7180064
Ok for this part.
But the translation is bad and never changed on reedited version ?

>>7181253
I'm pretty sure the dog tag in the ending is *supposed* to have Kojima's name since his birthday and blood type is input automatically if you enter his name. I wonder what made them decide to allow any name.

>>7178948
>she has way more literary chops than kojima
So she's done more than just watch big budget American films for the last 30 years? Kojima is a fucking awful writer if the idea wasn't directly stolen from Blade Runner or Lethal Weapon, Where the old Kojima games had charm was their attention to detail (i.e. having to take a smoke break in MG2 on the bridge to calm your nerves).

>>7181520
Kojima has good taste in film beyond just big budget American films.
http://junkerhq.net/favoritefilms.html

>>7178948
Literary chops ≠ good game writing
Even if it did you can't prove she has em.
Of course autists will bother her when all she has to offer is the same story over and over

>>7180646
>Did it ever occur to you that Kaku just had a shit legal team? Because those exist.
Did it ever occur to you that might have occurred to me, but the fact that he uses plural, doesn't specify anything, she's likely rich enough for a respected firm, and that one of her more detailed points is similar enough (ran out of time in the UK, in a sense the libel became "outdated) to be spun as what he wrote?

>Shock of shocks, someone fighting a case wants to look favorable compared to the opposing party.
Why the fuck do you think I included the word "obviously" in that sentence? No, really. You're the one calling me stupid, but how the hell could you interpret that otherwise?

>running their mouths off about their employers and blacklisted because of it
Do you have a source for that? As far as I'm aware only Agness did that, not the others, and she only lost out on things during this feud with JS. But then, so did her sister apparently. So nothing to do with speaking about old work. Also how does this address my point they have much longer and more respected work histories than this dude?
>original drafts of her translations are so shit they need drastic rewrites
Regardless of the quality of her work, she was still given it. And drafts are intended to be rewritten by definition. But again, how the hell is this related to the point that they have longer, more public careers?
>the one volume of Untold History of Jap Games she did is rife with [CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS PART] and [REDACTED]
...are you kidding me? This is the book by the very guy she had the feud with. I don't see how the previous two examples addressed the point, but this one is ridiculous.
>another account of a translator who worked with Agness confirms she's a manipulative cunt
Source?
>Some long running professional career there, Agness.
You did nothing to prove otherwise, didn't question duration at all, didn't question the calibre of her employers. Just focused on videogame translation quality.

>>7178419
YOU MUST BE AMES

>>7181614
>Did it ever occur to you that might have occurred to me, but the fact that he uses plural, doesn't specify anything, she's likely rich enough
>localizers
>rich
Are you retarded?
>Do you have a source for that? As far as I'm aware only Agness did that
Her old website: https://web.archive.org/web/20140906080708/http://www.hibernium.com/wrtg/
>not the others
I wasn't talking about her sister.
>and she only lost out on things during this feud with JS
And any localization jobs as a result from her blacklisting.
>Regardless of the quality of her work, she was still given it.
And it was so shit it had to be rewritten again. Did you not even read the shitty draft and retranslation she submitted to the HG101 blog?
>...are you kidding me? This is the book by the very guy she had the feud with. I don't see how the previous two examples addressed the point, but this one is ridiculous.
Are you really this fucking retarded? The fact that the subsequent books John put out aren't riddled with redacted notes about not being able translate shit or because Agness is a shit interpreter speaks to the fact they were done by people who could into moon speak.
>Source?
Here, you dumbfuck. Thought you already read all of the "accusations", but guess not:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748556728/the-untold-history-of-japanese-game-developers/posts/860418
>From a former colleague of Agness'

>You did nothing to prove otherwise
I just did Agness. Now please go back to whining about the big bad game industry being sexist and hating wahmen and games being too dumb for you to work on.

Real talk, you sound just like her. Why do you want to be a cunt?

People think MGS2 was bad? I thought it was great.

>>7181614
>And drafts are intended to be rewritten by definition.
Most of the lines she filled with pure localisation drivel had that shit completely removed and replaced with a direct translation.

This wasn't a quick first draft, this was the work she handed in, and it was torn apart by someone who was actually half-decent and doesn't want to be known as "the translator for MGS2".

You can still see Agness's work in the game, but most of it was heavily cleaned and corrected. It's sad that she posted so little of her draft, I think all we've got is the tanker up until you take control of the game. Who knows what other horrors we were spared.

I'd feel sorry for Agnes if she wasn't such a cunt

>>7181717
>The fact that the subsequent books John put out aren't riddled with redacted notes about not being able translate shit or because Agness is a shit interpreter speaks to the fact they were done by people who could into moon speak.
Have you got any shots of the "this is untranslatable" shit? I could use a laugh.

>>7181885
She's clearly mentally ill, I just thought she was a massive cunt who shittalked former employers when she was in the clear, but it turns out she's just a straight up scam artist who thinks she's the queen of the industry because she did some translation work for a few games.

>>7178419
It has the best and most fluid gameplay of the series. The game itself is a bit dull with lack of variety in its environment, going through same rooms many times.

>>7181901
Actually if you look at the archive of the original HG101 interview and stuff like >>7178493 she constantly went on about how she used to translate for the UN and APEC and other really important people/events because she's such a great translator and video game translation is actually beneath her.

>After a pause Agness added, "Here's something that might better contextualise my criticism of Kojima's banal imaginings about corridors of power: I've ghosted speeches and other content for the kinds of people he would consider bigwigs, for events like APEC conferences. Politically, I'm a well-informed cynic to the extreme. I also once created and ran a site that attempted to track all the media-reported kidnappings in Iraq."

She stopped doing that sort of real translation work and ended up doing video game translations, which pay 10-20 times less, even though she so clearly hates video games.

And now that she's been run out of the video game industry apparently all she does now whines about not having a job and how everyone in conspiring against her online, instead of going back to real translation work.

Gee, I wonder why, it's almost as if she can't get a job in non video game translation either for some reason.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603184151/http://www.1up.com/features/interview-kojima-productions-ryan-payton?pager.offset=1
>Kojima Productions' Ryan Payton
>Now looking back at the script and looking back at the translation and realizing where things might have gotten cut and where things got lost in translation -- there really wasn't a problem with the original Japanese print. I think it was more a problem with some of the translation and some of the direction that was taken with the localization.

Agnes Kaku
>she debunked the idea that in its original Japanese the game was more palatable, "One thing I remember is I played it with someone so I could take notes - so my boyfriend was playing it - and I just sat next to him, and he loved the original game. He's a total kind of gamer generation, he knows way too much about [retro] things. But even he was like 'God! They just talk on, and on, and on, and there's a Colonel that'll go on and on, in this kind of political intrigue babble that wasn't particularly well written, droning.' The sheer amount of talking, I think makes it rather difficult to get through, but then if you just go ahead and skip it, maybe there was something in there?"

She "debunks" the idea that MGS2 is good with "I made my boyfriend play it and he didn't like all the talking".

>>7181954
>and video game translation is actually beneath her.

>It's like a molasses it's been caught in all this time. I think in the early days the medium was quite limited, so the language you used, whether it was graphics or game control, or just the actual text, was in line with that. All was kind of good. But very quickly the medium outstripped the language, and in the meantime it's just continued to gabble in this stuff grabbed from poor movies. Or just arbitrarily stuck-in comic book pieces.

She says video game writing is all garbage.

>>7181954
John is such a pathetic fucking simp and the "interview" people keep bringing up are just him and Agnes jerking each other off all the way.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120125211106/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku3.htm#13

>After a pause Agness added, "Here's something that might better contextualise my criticism of Kojima's banal imaginings about corridors of power: I've ghosted speeches and other content for the kinds of people he would consider bigwigs, for events like APEC conferences.

JS writes on this:
>It's clear Agness has the experience and language ability to speak with authority on the subject of MGS2's writing

Yeah a crazy narcissist talking about how great she is and conveniently leaving out why she can't find a job in that industry anymore is absolute proof that she's an expert on the subject.

>>7178927
Agnes Kaku gave an "interview" to HG101 here
https://web.archive.org/web/20120125211117/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm
In which she says stupid shit like
>"Why is Mr Kojima writing about a country he's not a part of, and frankly doesn't know that much about?
>I don't think Kojima's a writer. The fact that he would even be considered one shows how low the standards are in the game industry. Nothing in MGS2 is above a fanfic level.

A guy on /m/ posted the interview to 2channel and sent it to a big Japanese game blogger who used to hang out with Kojima named Jin115.
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/7317304/#7319363
> Posted a link to that in two of the largest MGS threads on 2channel and started a thread on VIP.
>> If this shows up on esteru she's finished
>Jin is more likely to run this, since he sometimes hangs out with Kojima. I've taken the liberty of mailing him the link.

Jin115 did in fact run the story
http://jin115.com/archives/51843719.html

HG101 got hit with a C&D from Konami and the interview got taken down

Years later she and the guy who interviewed her started having a retarded internet fight and they started posting each other's e-mails online. One of her's had her saying that she got run out of the industry because of Jin115. She claims
>>They intentionally mistranslated my lines. No Japanese person reading them would see me as anything but an arrogant asshole with a serious deficit in interpersonal skills.
But of course she is lying, the translations on Jin115 were 1:1 to what she was saying, and in the original English interview she did of course come off as
>an arrogant asshole with a serious deficit in interpersonal skills.
The e-mail is at the bottom of the pic

>>7182007
>http://jin115.com/archives/51843719.html
Some Japanese comments on that article

>What kind of person complains this much when they're being given a job?

>So she's saying video games are all shit

>I didn't know that (foreigners) hated MGS2

>They give you a job and you do this? Don't work ever again

>It's easy to be a critic, anyone can do it

>She says all this but will take your money for the job. She has no conviction

>Despite all this rubbish she says the game is good though

>If you don't like the job then don't do it

>If MGS is below fanfic level, then what are other games? Nursery children essays?

>Summary: "I don't want to translate video games. I want to translate books and movies."

>The thing is it's a story for a video game. Western games' stories are kept simple and stupid.

>At least it's not Ace Combat AH which was written by an American. They beat the bad guy, America is always right, and the man and woman kiss, the end.

>All this sounds like is jealousy at how there are people who can write better than her.

>She's not even a writer, she's a translator, what does she know?

>Conclusion is that some loser translator didn't like their job.

>It's the least talented that are the most noisy.

>If you don't like it then just stay away from it. Why did she work for them?

>She's just trying to ride off MGS' popularity to get famous.

>I don't expect idiots to understand 2's story, so this is understandable.

>She sounds like one of those poor people who can't accept anything that they don't understand.

>So what exactly has this translator made, and how many million fans does the thing she made have?

>http://jin115.com/archives/51843719.html
>このAgness KakuとかいうNGOの仕事してるw何人かもわからない糞女がヒステリー起こしてるだけだろ海外でも翻訳バッシングされたから、ながーい言い訳してコナミと小島のせいにしてるだけ
>しかもバッシングされたのはなぜだと思うか聞かれて「当然私が女だからでしょう」って憶面もなく答えるような糞女
>胸くそ悪い
> なんか中国の諺をこいつがシェイクスピアに置き換えようとして小島に嫌われたとか、そういう被害妄想にとらわれながら、いまはDeNAのスマホ向けソーシャルの仕事してるんだと
> 英語も日本語もネイティブだとかいってるけど、うさんくさい人物だよ
>I know this Agness Kaku, she does NGO work. This is just her being a hysterical bitch.
>She got bashed overseas so now she's trying to shift the blame to Konami and Kojima. And when asked why she's being bashed she says it's because she's a woman.
>That's the kind of person she is.
>She makes me sick.
>I heard her claim that Kojima doesn't like her because she tried to replace a Chinese idiom with a Shakespeare quote, but it really sounded like she had a persecution complex.
>She now translates mobile phone games for DeNA.
>She claims to be fluent in English and Japanese but it's very suspicious.

There you have it, a native Japanese speaker questioning her fluency. Also at this point in time she was still doing shitty phone shovelware translation for DeNA but she got fired from that too because nobody could stand her (see the e-mail about Jin115).

>>7182037
>This sounds like a personal feud.

>I pity the gaijin who have to play games translated by this sort of person.

>Kojima can do interviews and talk shows in English. That Kojima told her to do it one way, but she wanted to change it. It's clear that there's something wrong with her.
>She refuses to do her job and instead wants to pretend to be an artist. Of course nobody likes her.

>(Regarding the complaint of the script using too many English words)
>This is just how Japanese sci-fi is. Many technical terms only exist in English. Has this person never done a real translation job before?
>Well, judging from how she's doing an interview about MGS2 this many years later, I guess she never got any real jobs before or after it.

>She is absolutely right about Kojima not being a writer. They just blab on forever about nothing and then solve everything with nanomachines.

>She sounds like the same sort of idiot racist gaijin who tries to categorize Japanese games as JRPGs as an insult. It's amazing how she's pretending that a game that was a huge success overseas was a huge failure.

>I thought 2 was even more popular than 3 overseas?

>MGS may be childish, but it's not as childish as someone insulting their client in public.

>The content of her criticism is the same as the juvenile insults from regular people. Just another attention-seeker.

>They gave you a job. If you don't like it then don't take it, dumbass.

>If Kojima is this bad, then what is Hino? (of Level Five)

>They should not give a job to someone who has no respect for the source material.

>The fact that she complains about use of katakana English in the script is proof that she's an idiot who does not understand the Japanese language.

>Is she Chinese?

>All this means is that she'll no longer be able to work as a translator. That's the price for insulting a former client.
>If she's doing this without being prepared to leave the industry, then she's just stupid. She'll be paying either way

>>7182037
>Let her translate a Hino (Level Five) script!
(For context, this is from early 2012, when Hino was midway through writing the worst Gundam series in history)

>I saw Naruto's mokuton translated as "wood style", and it made me realise that English may be easy to understand, but is also impoverished when it comes to literary expressions.

>The English translation of MGS2 is very weird. In some scenes it's the complete opposite of what the original text says. If you have Substance (which includes the English dub) go check it out.

>(Regarding complaints about English words in the Japanese script)
>No wonder she got fired from being a translator. She doesn't understand Japan's katakana culture at all.

>Just stop selling MGS games to the west.

>Metal Gear was always supposed to be a B-movie kind of thing. That's what people like about it.

>I only played 4 and I didn't understand it.

>It sounds like she's just upset that she got fired.

>(Regarding about how stupid it is to write about soldiers from another country)
>Americans can't even write about soldiers from their own country, though.

>Meanwhile Metacritic says this about Kojima's writing in MGS3
>>interesting story, great characters (Game Chronicles)
>>intriguing cinematic storyline complete with twists and themes (Gamebiz)
>>all of the elements of a blockbuster movie (etoychest)
>>captivating storyline (PALGN)
>>great story (Pelit Finland)
>>superb storyline (Dark Station)
>>Hollywood-style storytelling. (Gamespy)
>>An outstanding gaming experience that sucks you into its expansive storyline. (Gamespot AU)

>The only thing I got from this interview is that this translator is showing off how ignorant and stupid she is.

>Is this really the translator? If she hates the job so much then why is she doing it?

>(Regarding English words again)
>Does she really understand Japanese? Anyone who speaks Japanese should know how much English words and wasei-eigo are used in daily life.

>>7178419
>Was MGS2 really that bad?
the original english version of the game? yes
- extremely fucked up story/voice actor choices in the english version (jp raiden has a masculine voice, eng raiden is a whiny homo. solidus has the same va as snake/pliskin in japan but I guess hayeter just couldn't do more than one voice or they didn't wanna pay him for multiple roles or something so the "solidus is just an older snake leading the terrorists" twist makes 0 fucking sense, lots of weird fuck ups in the text in general because they got rid of the MGS1 guy)
- game is full of cut content (read document of MGS2) and it shows. the engine and mechanics of MGS2 are in many ways superior to even MGS3 but the game has barely any actual gameplay to take advantage of it, the VR missions and other extra content of the re-release make the game have a lot more to play
- a lot of the concepts in the story that weren't translated to be barely comprehensible are stuff that wasn't really applicable to the majority of people playing games in america at the time (basically everything involving the internet)

in 2020, playing subsistance and now aware of how the internet has ruined discourse and news forever? its pretty fucking awesome, game has aged amazingly along with ZOTE2

>>7181320
a brainlet who thinks censorship is a good thing? many such cases

>>7182102
So, the english version of MGS2 is bad.
And for the others location (german, french, spanish etc..) how is it ??
It is :
Japanese > english > international
Or
Japanese > english
Japanese > german
Japanese > french
...
?

>>7182331
The european version came out like 4 months later, so it was probably derived from the English script.

>>7178445
>shit translation and shit dub
kojima prefered the english dub, some games had its own release in english in japan

>>7180535
I believe he played it and thought it was terrible

this thread seems to be full of plebs who still cant understand mgs2s story so are blaming the translation.

>>7181481
The Kojima thing is just an easter egg, it happens with a bunch of other developer names too.

>>7182097
>The English translation of MGS2 is very weird. In some scenes it's the complete opposite of what the original text says. If you have Substance (which includes the English dub) go check it out.
Is this true? I thought they fixed her fucked up changes, like how the first cutscene uses very little of her translation.

>>7179525
>I just spent 3 hours playing 竜が如く0, is that enough of a "credential" for you?
God, the faggots on this board have no self awareness

>>7182390
I heard he actually liked Snake's Revenge, at least moreso than the NES port of the first game.

>>7182390
https://web.archive.org/web/20051103013555/http://www.gamerstoday.com/world_tours/tour9a.html

Seems like Kojima actually liked it to me.

>>7182372
>kojima prefered the english dub
No he didn't, read the thread.

>>7182372
wrong

>>7179525
Yet you can't even write 龍が如く properly on your shitty IME. Fuck off gaijin.

>>7182075
Based

>>7182397
Does anyone want to post an example of the mistranslation changing the narrative or making plot points vague or confusing?

This thread seems to be about hating and blaming people that are unlikable and suck at what they do. But I want demonstrations of everything they are blamed for

>>7183269
>Does anyone want to post an example of the mistranslation changing the narrative or making plot points vague or confusing?
Have you tried reading the thread?

>>7183271
going through the thread and reading the example translations, it seems that Kaku butchered the translation but her script didn't make it into the game, at least not without heavy revisions. What plot points are changed are obscured in the english release?

>>7183309
Keep reading.

Smells like incel in this thread

>>7183346
I've read the whole thread, I don't know what I'm missing

>>7183376
A brain

>>7183378
>if you were smart you would hate this gook bitch by now!

>>7183378
genuinely what's your deal? You haven't given any evidence that her shitty translation ended up in the game, at least in any way that fundamentally changed the plot, which is your claim. Yeah she seems like a whiny bitch who wasn't good at her job but you'd think she laughed at your advances in highschool with all the stuff you accuse her of.

>>7183393
isn't she gay?

>>7183309
>it seems that Kaku butchered the translation but her script didn't make it into the game, at least not without heavy revisions.
The tanker chapter was heavily polished given it was the fucking demo, who knows how much she got away with later.

Aside from being autistic enough to sync up two playthroughs on youtube side by side and cross referencing, there's no good way to compare the scripts.

>>7183376
>>7183393
For fuck's sake, here you dipshit:
>>7178486
>>7178494

Granted, voices aren't Agness' problem, but it's an example of how the game's localization--even after Hagness' alterations were rightly tossed out--was mangled on release.
>>7183363
>>7183382
Hagness, you got btfo in 2012, you got btfo in 2016 after your retarded libel case, and now it's happening again. You're lucky your "Fortune 500 and NGO" jobs aren't staffed with fanboys with the autism to actually scrutinize your work.

>>7183418
those changes are just matters of casting. still nothing in there that changes the plot of the game. I'm not saying it was a good decision, but it's not the localization changing the game fundamentally like has been claimed in this thread.

>>7182075

>is she chinese?

they really dont like her. calling someone chinese in japan is like calling someone the n word in the states

>>7183440
>those changes are just matters of casting. still nothing in there that changes the plot of the game.
>but it's not the localization changing the game fundamentally like has been claimed in this thread.
Except you're wrong, because it does. For one, having Solidus voiced by a different actor completely scuttles the mystery of Snake being alive or dead, in turn making it way more obvious that Pliskin is Snake and Solidus is someone else entirely. It goes from being something that's meant to confuse players on who is and isn't Snake to being--at best--just dramatic irony confined to the game's plot, where they're in the dark about who's who and the audience can already see what's coming. And then you have Raiden who was intended to have a more masculine voice, but instead you have Quinten Flynn giving him a more nasally voice, which undoubtedly tarnished Raiden's reputation overseas for years. At best you can say at least his lines boasting about VR training really highlighted his status as a rookie.

Again, these aren't Agness' problems, but they are objective localization downgrades.

>>7183446
>the n word
The what

>>7179697
>>7179697
There is no subject in that sentence. It's implied. You literally have to guess the subject from context. I mean, during the cutscene it's Otacon who calls Snake on the CODEC. It arguably makes more sense for Snake to respond "been taking your time, huh" because he's already infiltrated the boat and is now waiting for his call.

>>7183467
Nigger.

>>7183463
>For one, having Solidus voiced by a different actor completely scuttles the mystery of Snake being alive or dead, in turn making it way more obvious that Pliskin is Snake and Solidus is someone else entirely. It goes from being something that's meant to confuse players on who is and isn't Snake to being--at best--just dramatic irony confined to the game's plot, where they're in the dark about who's who and the audience can already see what's coming.
you know, fair point. The "is Snake dead" plot point was always incredibly stupid to me because Pliskin was so fucking clearly snake. I think they would have benefited from having him wear navy seal mask and making Hayter do a different voice, as well as have Hayter voice Solidus. Not sure why they didn't, especially on the Solidus voice thing.
As for Raiden's voice, I'm more up in the air on it. Yeah, it wasn't the original intent, and localizations/remakes/etc. should try to hew as close to the original artistic vision as possible, but I don't think it really ruins his character. I'll definitely admit to being biased though, I like Flynn's performance.

As much as it sucks that we Westerners didn't get to experience the game in that way that Kojima intended, frankly I liked all the VAs for MGS2 and it's still one of the best games I've ever played.

>>7183490
Pliskin gave the game away, but the game straight up didn't make any sense in English. The big shell starts with the talk about the guy claiming to be Solid Snake, but how would the Colonel be unable to tell a guy who sounds NOTHING like Snake apart from the real thing? What, did he just forget what Snake sounded like after 3 years?

Raiden's performance is whiny and annoying, I really hate it.

>>7183521
The only one I'm torn on is Olga. On one hand, she was very blatantly meant to be Meryl for the purpose of the simulation. On the other, it'd be weird to have a Russian character without a Russian accent when you already established that whole gimmick with MGS1, the translation already fucked up all of the reused lines, and you've already replaced Solidus making the cute little bait and switch scene gibberish anyway.

Everyone else is just markedly worse in English, with the exception of Campbell. Rose in particular, I really wonder if Agness was just straight up jealous or something so she decided to make Rose absolutely intolerable. In Japanese, Rose is still annoying, for sure, but she has cute points, she's Mei Ling and Otacon rolled together. I feel like all of those were cut out of the English version, which makes all the scenes about their romance fall completely flat.

>>7183490
>>7183763
pliskin was originally going to be blonde as well to further sell that he wasn't just snake. there's shinkawa art of blonde pliskin

>>7183763
That's something of the Metal Gear trademark. Almost in every game a character from the previous game returns, but in a different shape, form, guise or "role".

Snake didn't even bat an eye when Miller changed his ethnicity from his MG2 days because of his fucking sunglasses.

>>7179810
MGS2 spoiled me so much at such a young age, spoiled me with it's quality and gameplay, replayability and experimentation, on game endings that are in no rush to end, spoiled me with this glorious interactive making of, then spoiled me with Substance, god...such a wonderful thing to exist. I love everything about 2 so much, what I would give to relieve it all over again. I was not connected to the gaming world when I played this, so to find out years later that people at first hated this game was baffling, well maybe hate is too strong of a word, but you know the raiden thing. It never even registered with me thanks to how good the game was.

Has another game ever done stuff like this Documents game?

>>7178435
The first one was amazeballs because it basically was the first truly "cinematic" game and there had never been that much atmosphere in a game before. I played that demo a thousand times.

>>7183486
Here I thought you meant nagger.

>>7182102
>eng raiden is a whiny homo
I bet some dumb cunt thought it was more appropriate to give the long haired pretty boy a faggot voice.

>>7183763
I totally agree with you on both Raiden's western VA and Rose being a complete bitchwhore. Manly Raiden and friendly Rose would've made for a much better experience. I compared some scenes of Raiden and it's like a completely different character between the JAP and US version.

>>7184383
>I was not connected to the gaming world when I played this, so to find out years later that people at first hated this game was baffling, well maybe hate is too strong of a word, but you know the raiden thing. It never even registered with me thanks to how good the game was.
We had several years of trailers prior to release of just Snake on the tanker that looked great. Then we discover halfway thru you play a character specifically designed to appeal to females (Kojima's hack idea of broadening the userbase) on an oil rig setting that's just a series of rooms connected by bridges.

>>7186517
>We had several years of trailers
One year =! several.
>Then we discover halfway thru
More like one quarter of the way through.

>>7182352
so, it's maybe for that i never understood why the President touch the balls of Raiden...

>>7179230
I love the first two games, but imho, the best 3 game streak in the series is MG2 -> MGS -> MGS2

>>7184678
American “voice actors” are just people who can’t get real jobs as actors

>>7187009
Wrong, American "Anime" Voice Actors are like that. They also inject divisive politics into cartoons because they think it gives their job a higher meaning.

>>7186635
he was homo

>haha! Even the lies we lied about lying were lies! Got you again!
You really didn't, please stop wasting my time, game. This isn't deep, it's dragging your feet.

>>7189020
based retard

>>7181543
>Bad Taste
based kojimbo

Why don't you play it and answer your own question?

>>7178419
just play it and form your own opinion. I cant stand these threads. Id hate to be a kid today.

>>7182602
>>7182372
Precisely debunked by breakingn the tradition with MGS3 subsistence that stayed in japanese as Kojima was probably very proud of the voice overs he directed and saw no point in using the eng v/o, theres data around MGS2´s jap dub was like 1 year and half, eng was like a couple of weeks.

The gameplay in 2 is top notch, what little of it there is. I liked the culmination but it needed 50% more game before it.

Certain character designs aside, the aesthetic was great too. Big Shell looked really sleek and refined. It was quite futuristic and cutting-edge in a believable way. Hated the later games retro james bond shit look.

>>7191732
I honestly don't know what was going on with Substance. Integral made sense, he was selling a full priced version with a few VR missions while in the west we just got an add-on disc instead.

But it's a fucking crime that Substance was English only. Was he that scared people wouldn't double dip?

>>7178419
metal gear solid in general is a bad franchise anon

>>7192241
retard

>>7182007
based agness. I like MGS but the circlejerk around it is unbearable. The writing is romance novel tier and the cult of kojimbo is a wonder.
>>7184467
>amazeballs
You're in the wrong neighborhood nigger

>>7192236
I think Its more that Konami thought It was the best practice, the legend says Konami was impressed with the sound of MGS1´s dub so much that they had the idea of putting It in Integral.

Even the HD collection had a considerable amount of work to voice substance exclusive dialogues in japanese for the first time as now the whole game was in japanese, pity the HD colection is not without shortcomings including the absolutely retarded error with MGS3´s opening being out of sync by 4-5 seconds, the only way to get It right is with the ps2 original, the 3ds version, or the vita version of the HD collection..

>>7193086
Bringing Integral over is when Kojima flipped his shit about all the changes though, they had it re-translated back to Japanese and he sperged out about the localisation. That's the main reason the rest of the series has such garbage translation, he wanted to make sure they were keeping it "accurate".

I've never looked into MGS2 too much, I wonder if the script for SoL is the same as the one for Substance?

>>7192782
>based agness.
Fuck off Hagness, you're an even shittier writer than Cuckjima.

>>7186650
>best 3 game streak in the series is MG2--MGS--MGS2
Without a doubt. Literally Solid trilogy.

>>7193169
Hey if the whore dunks Kojirmb then she's alright in my book.

>>7193220
>Hey if the retard dunks another retard then she's not a retard in my book.
No, she's a retarded cunt.

>>7193475
so's koijirmba. swings and roundabouts.

>>7179413
> I rememeber really not liking the graphics, because I kind of loved(and still do) the look of the PS1 game and how it captured the look of the coverr and manuals art. I really wanted the next game to do that again, but instead everyone just looked like a blow up doll.

Interesting enough. Did you saw that toon shading demo? How do you feel about it?

https://youtu.be/_Pmdvw2ao-Q

Not that I have the same complains, MGS2 vanilla was the perfect amalgamation between artwork and photorealism to me.

>>7193562
I never really cared either way so going off your webm
>that girl
yeah no
>that snake
ok maybe we missed something here

>>7193586

>mei ling

Yeah no.

>that snake

He looks like a better borderlands character made a gen earlier. Anyway I stay with vanilla mgs2.

>>7179413

Aren't you sure you dislike it case they change the very anime style of the first to the mildly anime of the second?

>>7193616
>dislike it case

*because

>>7179361
>>7179337
Also wondering this
Is it "DAMN!" or puffing a cigar?

>>7184383
Not to my knowledge. Loved the Camera Controls for the cutscenes so you can see how they moved the 'actors' around or off with camera cuts. Always dig a model viewer too.

At most, other games would have a making of video on a separate disk, like Silent Hill 2's excellent making of documentary that came with the Slip case Collectors Edition.

But MGS2: Substance was a one of a kind re-release.

it feels as if Mei Ling should have been Japanese. There aren't *any* significant Japanese characters in the series come to think of it (not counting half Japanese Miller), why is that?

>>7178434
I actually like the Raiden switcheroo, but the Big Shell's level design is kind of weak and Dead Cell is lame as fuck and doesn't have great boss fights.

>>7193935
Big boss was half Japanese, at least in MGS1. The original backstory for outer heaven is literally "big boss got upset that his american buddies were picking on him for being a dirty jap after the war".

It's only my favorite of the series, I was so fucking autistic with this game as a kid, playing it on extreme difficulty from start to end in one day and shit. All the shit in arsenal gear with colonel was fucking beautiful.

>>7193935
Kojima was a westaboo, and maybe just wanted to do a Japanese take on American military action/stealth tropes.

>>7193983
They totally changed that though. Big Boss clearly isn't Japanese by MGS3 and Solid Snake's "Japanese blood" comes from his egg donor.
It's also weird considering how many characters keep gushing over Japanese culture.

>>7194002
>Kojima was
He's still alive, Anon... and his last game is full of celebrities from the west.

>>7194020
No no Kojima died during the great Konami exodus, but Hideo his cloned brother is still alive and making games. There's a third clone but all he does is shitpost on twitter and eat burgers with celebrities off of Hideo and Kojima's notoriety and clout.

>>7194010
>It's also weird considering how many characters keep gushing over Japanese culture.
it's also worth noting that this is a universe where everybody just keeps JAV posters around the workplace.

Hamburgers are fucking great

>>7194210