/vr/ - Retro Games

The "west" already overrates tales of symphonia hard for being a nintendo gc exclusive.

Symphonia is cool and all but going back to it after PS1 Destiny/Eternia makes you really miss basic mechanics like defending, cooking, artes cancelling, and not having to dash back and forth to hit enemies.
I also lol at how Piko Hammer can be used to stun lock even the final bosses in these games and how they evenly distributed optional super bosses throughout the story instead of placing them all at the end.

>>7180261
>phantasia blows them all out of the water
how so? I tried it for about 10 hours and didn't like it at all. mainly the shitty translation and annoying combat.

>>7180261
We wouldn't have cared who Marth was in Melee since we had our fix of fantasy RPGs

>>7180291
Story, scope, characters, dungeon design, I would include combat in there as well as I personally think it's well designed (although maybe a bit repetitive) and pretty novel for its time.

>>7180261
>Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Earthbound and SMRPG

Tales isn't better than any of those games.

>>7180285
>evenly distributed optional super bosses throughout the story instead of placing them all at the end.

But this is way better?

>>7180285
Didn't Symphonia have cooking?
Or did it work differently?

>>7180618
I think he meant to say phantasia instead of symphonia

>>7180357
It's better than all of them except CT

>>7180348
The combat is good and very different from other games at the time but the encounter rate is way too high

>>7180261
Tales was a very early fan translation, dude. It was only available a few years after Chrono Trigger. People genuinely like CT and the FF games better because they are much more interesting in pretty much every category.

>>7180261
It wouldn't have made any difference. It's a good game but it would have come out at the tail end of the SNES's lifespan. It would have been after all the major RPGs we did get and right before FFVII.

>>7180261
But Star Ocean 2 came out in North America and it blows ToP out of the water...

>>7180261
Well this >>7180957
It's strange you think one little game could change the perception of an entire genre and culture. The real elephants in the room are JRPG perceptions being almost entirely from casuals finding Japanese aesthetics too garish/feminine and disliking pure-adventure and tactical games in general.

The other is that hardcore Western players are familiar to a higher degree (often indirectly) with tabletop RPGs (and what they uniquely offered over choose-your-own-adventures/VNs and war-games), actual wargaming/strategy, and actual adventure-games. The reputation of JRPGs outside of weebs is irreparable, simply because it is a fact that the whole thing is just a misunderstanding of those 3 Western genres. Obviously there are still JRPGs that can find a good niche in being more adventure-like than CRPGs, if they have good tactics to boot, but due to the misunderstanding and console-only player ignorance, usually the mediocre JRPGs are overhyped instead.

>>7182281
>if they have good tactics to boot
I should note that as much as JRPGs usually don't care for any reliable tactics standards/systems (they usually get called SRPGs when they do, sadly with worse aesthetics), the same is true with their ignorance of adventure designs. The games often merely play like delayed VNs, when the actual exploration/world design is more like classic adventure games and would therefore benefit from their designs.

>>7180261
It would have been too expensive to make in the West sadly.
It would have been better if the PS1 remake had come out when JRPGs really got big with that system, but whatever.

https://youtu.be/sV3YZQWV42k?t=54

soul

>>7182414
So this is the famous Japanese humor.

>>7180261
The best translation and way to play is the Tales-Cless translation for PSX

>>7184414
Doesn't have the soulful SNES music, though.

>>7184398
Ligthen up you know how a vocal OP was mind blowing at the time

>>7184554
SNES is worse in literally every other way. And the PSX included the voiced little anime camp dialogue I liked

>>7180261
Black Hole is the most based spell of all Tales games. Kill your enemies by sucking them into the void.

>>7184414
I prefer absolute zero translation, its much more faithful to the original and doesnt attempt to 'localize', which is a retarded burger concept

>>7184414
>>7185141
I only played Absolute Zero translation since it came out first but I've been thinking about trying Tales-Cless version since the poor guy was so buggered his translation didn't come out first. It can't be too bad, can it?

>>7185141
Straight translation is dry and boring, because Japanese writing is dry and boring

>>7186330
And localized translations are retarded and not funny, because burgers can't resist being attentionwhores and thinking they're shitty attempts at writing are more important than the game itself.

>>7180261
Cless would be in Smash instead of Ssoyd, plus the series won't look like a cheap as shit modern anime

>>7180357
Tales is absolutely better than the DQ and FF Nintendo knockoffs

Earthbound doesn't represent shit. It flopped at the time.

>>7180261
The fact that the game stop every time someone casts magic or summon kind of ruins the game for me. Early to midgame is absolutely amazing, though.

>>7180261
GBA port were sweet dreams from Egyptian heaven.

>>7186360
This isn't a corporate translation. Tales-Cless did an excellent job. Why are you talking as if you played his translation?

>>7180261
>but Phantasia blows them all out of the water.
It really doesn't. The battle system was unique for the time but it's really just a matter of mashing attack over and over.
Apart from the massive rom size which they wasted on the stupid anime OP intro song with sampled vocals, it's generic as fuck, the writing is especially weak.

>>7186330
You don't know japanese.

>>7187750
The palette was kind of fucked up accounting for the black hole that is the GBA screen and the dub was less than half-hearted, but it was an honest to goodness English translation of the whole package. Kangaroos be damned.

>>7188045
English bad, original Japan good. Learn nihongo, gaijin.

>>7188650
>it's really just a matter of mashing attack over and over.
Not really. You kind of have to get tactical with the techs (whether it's stab/slash/elemental) if you want to survive the bosses.
Or just fiddle with the AI settings and make your allies spam the most effective summons/magic.

>the writing is especially weak
I think it was pretty great for the time, especially for a JRPG.

>>7180261
Not much. Phantasia would be remembered as a grand "scale" game, and a good example, but it wouldn't top any of those.
The thing CT and FF6 especially did right, is achieving a really excellent balance of all the things you'd want in a JRPG - story, time investment, battle system, cast, etc. TOP excelled in some of them, but it also could be a seriously tedious fucking game to play sometimes, and people would remember that too.

>>7186770
Ask me how I know you are younger than 30?

>>7181017
Good points are always ignored by the zoomers/faggots of /vr/.

All style and no substance.

>>7180261
Ah the GBA port that was so shitty I found a sealed copy of it at a Wal-Mart in 2012.

>>7189167
The Square games have a memorable cast of larger than life characters. Tales does not. The generic artstyle prevents any memorable character designs, too. I don't even remember them and I played the game back in the ZSNES days.

>>7180657
Ah

>>7180261

It would have been viewed as a late entry to a system when the next-gen had already come out and probably have been largely ignored.

>>7189180
He's right though. I'm over 30 and nobody gave a shit about Earthbound until many years later. It was known more for the giant box than for it's actual content.

>>7191698
people started caring after smash 64 came out yadda yadda

>>7191704
They did though...

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. It was not a popular game even by RPG standards.

Considering how big Tales got in japan, I think a west with a snes Phantasia localization would be a little different

>>7191760
Destiny and Eternia came over and didn't really do much though. The RPG market was a bit more crowded but I don't know how Phantasia would have improved the franchise's situation. If anything more damage was done by not localizing the PS1 remake.

>>7191728
Nobody is arguing that point. Nobody knew Earthbound before smash

>>7191698
That and most other rpgs floundered. Terranigma, Illusion of time, Secret of Evermore. If it wasn't Final Fantasy or Dragonquest it didn't sell.

What are the differences between the SNES, PS1 and PSP versions? Which one should I play?

>>7193542
PS1 with the Tales-Cless translation. Literally the optimal version

>>7184414
Just be sure to grab the Manual Ring, since back then they were still doing forced semi-auto and playing Manual required an actual item as a novelty sorta thing.

SNES is what it is, the original and all that, but it's only got DeJap "fucks like a tiger" localization. PS1 is a complete remake with an extra party member and the Tales of Destiny battle system, skits, cooking, titles, etc. It's basically more like the Tales you probably know, and has two fan localization options that are both pretty solid. PSP got two ports based off the PS1 remake, both with more voice acting, Grades and other minor additions, though the second port got another extra party member and a remake of Narikiri Dungeon X included with it, but these are Japanese only currently. If you want all the content and understand Japanese, the PSP versions are up your alley; if you don't but want a solid version, PS1. And if you just want to see the series origins and can deal with DeJap and a super awkward first battle system attempt that's very automated, SNES.

>>7194556
meant to be to >>7193542

>>7191698
Secret of Evermore is a MUCH better game than Zelda LttP, people in general are retarded.

>>7191698
Maybe country bumpkins in wherever the fuck you live. I went to school in NYC and we all played this shit, in fact I lent it to some chink in 8th grade and never got it back.

>>7191728
Wrong. You needed better rental places where you live you 3rd world bumpkin.

>>7192120
Another bumpkin faggot
>I never heard of it, so no one did

>>7193497
>Dragon Quest
Sold exactly 0 copies at this time, clearly you’re a moron who doesn’t know these games weren’t released in the US. I’d also wager EarthBound probably sold better than any of the NES games except the first, which as everyone knows, was given away with Nintendo Power subs.

>>7195912
That's the point muppet. People are saying this would have sold, I dont think so.

>>7195895
Whether or not people SHOULD care about something is not the same as whether or not they actually did. Earthbound isn't a bad game but you'd have to be retarded to think that it was a popular game before it became a meme.

>>7195897
>Me and my friends played it so everyone else must have.
Earthbound was one of those games everyone "knew of." It's existence was known because everyone read Nintendo Power and saw the big box but so few people actually gave a shit that it was a pretty big flop.

>>7195912
Find numbers.

>>7197015
I dunno, consoles had surprisingly long lifespans. Of course cartridge costs were quite stable over time so it might’ve felt ridiculous to pay 50-60 bucks for a new game to an old console when new games for N64 and PSX were available. Even so people probably didn’t instantly throw their old consoles to a dumpster so they could’ve definitely had some sales. Would it have been economically viable, that’s another question.

>>7199350
Nintendo supported the Snes well into 1997. I think it's a Japanese conservative thing. Remember they didn't even want to release Xenoblade in the west near the end of the Wii.

>>7199350
>>7200298
I think it was also publisher resources. Localizing a game wasn't like it is today. The translation team, which was maybe three people, got a copy of the finished game, the source code if they were lucky, and maybe five or six months to get it done. They had to constantly make choices of which games were worth investing in because it tended to mean another game had to be left in Japan. Square reportedly had to pick between Chrono Trigger and Seiken Densetsu 3. They couldn't do both.