/vr/ - Retro Games

Underworld is better than any mainline Ultima. You can start with 4, if you hate it try the next one or even go straight to 7. 8 and 9 are trash. No idea about the music.

Ultima is amazing. Underworld is amazing and will show you what a proper, classic dungeon is like.

You can start from IV but I think you owe it to yourself to at least mess about with Ultimas I, II, and III.
Some people balk at the science fiction elements but these tend to be people who don't have a grounding in the fantasy genre and the kind of traditional fiction that helped to inspire Ultima. Pic Related from 1965 and thereabouts.

Having played Tibia for years and knowing how much of it was inspired by Ultima has made me interested but I don't know what Ultima to play, they seem to dozens of games.

>>7170925
4 or 7 are the best starting points.

>>7170940
Wouldn't I miss out on the plot by starting in 4? Or are these games like Final Fantasy in that each game is it's own standalone story?

>>7170950
You won't miss anything important. You might've heard about playing as an Avatar, well, you only become him in part 4.

Ultima VII: The Black Gate and Ultima Underworld are the best and most influential. They are the only ones that are genuinely worth playing today beyond historical curiosity or nostalgia.

>>7170912
I have played the first 5 Final Fantasies and read pic related (which I can't stop recommending), scifi and epic fantasy blends if done well because "any advanced enough technology is undistinguishable from magic and blahblahblah"

Won't I be filtered by the old-ass games interface and mechanics? I have messed around with some DOS games in the past without much trouble, but I'm maybe too used to modern interfaces and stuff

>>7170984
getting filtered is definitely possible, but you should be able to get used to Ultima Underworld at least.

>>7170984
>Won't I be filtered by the old-ass games interface and mechanics
You might be. Don't worry about it, just have a look at them and see what they were about. Watch playthoughs if you like. They're remarkable games and worth meddling with just to see.

Seenig how there is a ton of patches and possible fixes/upgrades for each game, I think the problem is my fucking CrapBook Pro, and that it might be time to get a real tabletop PC

>>7170950
First three are a self-contained trilogy.
The Avatar is introduced in 4 and is for all intents and purposes a separate story arc.

>>7170925
If I'm not mistaken, early Tibia (around early 2000s) interface is similar to Ultima 6.

>>7170984
I tried playing IV on an Arduino tablet via dosbox a couple of years ago. It is definitely NOT a mobile game that you can pick away at leisurely, a little at a time. The filter I hit is that you have to do all your own mapping and notes.
So get some graph paper and pencils first.

>>7171023
>>7170956
What's the best platform to get cosy and experience Ultima? SNES?

>>7170859
Ultima was an awesome series that got killed by typical, clueless executive interference.
Start with 4, work your way up through 7.
Understand that, with 8, this is where the ultra-heavy hand of EA comes into play (it was felt, to some degree, with 7 but not so much).
9... Well, by 9, Ultima Online was unstoppable and EA couldn't be bothered with that thing called "single-player" anymore...
The UU games are good but 1, IMHO, is better than 2 from a story perspective.
Both Worlds of Ultima games are great and it's sad that it didn't take off as well as it did. I'm not sure that the cancelled 3rd game (Supposedly a straight re-telling of King Arthur) would've turned it around, but still...

In the end, Ultima was a great RPG series until the EA executives put the thumb screws onto it. I can only imagine a bizarro alternate universe where Ultima kept going without a bunch of idiots breathing down it's neck, screaming "More action!" and "We need it on consoles!" and "There's too much dialog!"

>>7171092
>alternate universe where Ultima kept going
2020: Ultima XX

>>7171092
>Well, by 9, Ultima Online was unstoppable and EA couldn't be bothered with that thing called "single-player" anymore...
I've heard Richard and Starr Long tell the story a few times. (that can happen when you live in Texas) They literally went from EA not wanting to give UO the time of day, to a complete flip where U9 became the bastard child, once they got ~35000 people willing to pay for a beta, back when they had to mail out CD-ROMs. EA in its infinite wisdom had previously decided that was the entire potential market of UO.
This is the stupid you get from big companies, they can't focus on two things at the same time, it has to be all one or the other.

What's a paladin XD XD XD I know right

>>7171090
SNES versions are terrible.

>Ultima VII contains jabs at EA since they were about to be acquired by them
>It released in 1992
EA has been evil for nearly 30 years

>>7172272
Mr. Nose had a feud with EA in late 80s.
Here's EA references in Ultima VI (1990).
Captain Hawkins is a pointed reference to former Electronic Arts CEO Trip Hawkins
https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Hawkins
Hawkins' pirate crews are also references to many EA guys.
https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Ybarra
https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Alastor_Gordon
https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Bonn

I never play Ultima V, but the wiki mentions that "Electronic Arts" was one of the curse words.
https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Electronic_Arts

Ultima 7 made my head spin when I first played it. Today, it's nothing special, we have tons of open world games. But back then, the idea that every object, even ones that served no purpose, were a distinct item that could be moved around instead of being "painted" on a surface (think books on a bookshelf) was mind blowing. The game opens with one of the most horrific scenes of graphic violence in any video game at that point, and it didn't even phase me because I was too amazed that I could pick up and move the spiked candles that were impaling the body.

As for a starting point, here are my recommendations.

1: Very easy to pick up and play. Not at all complex by today's standards. If you know what you're doing, you can beat it in an afternoon.

4: Start of the Avatar storyline, and of Ultima as a well defined franchise. The previous games were largely derivative of Dungeons and Dragons, but Ultima 4 is where it became its own distinct thing. This is where following the eight virtues and becoming the Avatar happens, so it's a big deal.

5: Similar in style to 4, but with a number of quality of life improvements to the general gameplay. If 4 feels too primitive for your taste, try this.

7: Universally agreed to be the best in the series, for good reason. As I described above it was revolutionary for its time. Even though it's "late" in the series chronology, it's a fine place to start because it's such a good game. This was my first Ultima, and I had no trouble getting in to it, nor with going back and playing the others once I acquired them.

Finally, do not play the console versions of any Ultima game. This isn't PC MASTUR RAYCE bullshit, the console versions are substantially modified to be played with a controller and on systems with less memory than computers of the era. Not ALL of the console ports are bad, but even the few good ones are compromised in ways that are hard to ignore.

>>7173951
>Today, it's nothing special, we have tons of open world games.
Yet none of them have the depth that Ultima VII had 28 years ago.

>>7173951
>console
you didn't mention that NoA butchered the U7 plot (kidnapped instead of butchered in trinsic, minoc, etc).

>>7171090
1,2: FM Towns
4: xu4 or SMS
5: IBM-DOS + C128 music patch
6: SCUMMVM/nuvie + FM-Towns sound
7: exult + Keyring mod
SI: exult + SI Fixes mod
8: Pentagram
9: IBM Windows + latest fan patch (1.19H for now)

>>7173951
>7: Universally agreed to be the best in the series, for good reason.
You will find plenty of people prefer 5 or 6. 7 has severe shortcomings that weren't present before.

>>7174117
U7 combat sucks

>>7173951
Only TES/BethFallout games have compareable level of interaction these days, so no it's nowhere near common and still amazing.

>>7174117
Most of Ultima 7's shortcomings aren't real shortcomings. It had very specific priorities, which it executed perfectly on. Everything that wasn't a priority, like combat, was intentionally made as streamlined as possible. In other words, the developers had a clear vision, and didn't try to overstep it.

>>7174194
It sucks as a game. Claiming that it doesn't try to be a game doesn't change that.
The combat is going to get in your way. Not because you have to take command but because you can't and the AI does the dumbest shit, forcing you to reload.

>>7174117
Never heard of anyone preferring 6 over 7. 4 or 5, sure.

>>7174235
>It sucks as a game. Claiming that it doesn't try to be a game doesn't change that.
Narrow minded definitions of what constitutes a game is why the medium has stagnated
>>7174235
The AI will never lose if you are properly equipped and leveled. I went nearly 20 hours without any combat on my last playthrough, and by the time I finally entered a dungeon my entire party had late game armor and weapons.

>>7174235
>It sucks as a game. Claiming that it doesn't try to be a game doesn't change that.
Narrow minded definitions of what constitutes a game is why the medium has stagnated
>The combat is going to get in your way. Not because you have to take command but because you can't and the AI does the dumbest shit, forcing you to reload.
The AI will never lose if you are properly equipped and leveled. I went nearly 20 hours without any combat on my last playthrough, and by the time I finally entered a dungeon my entire party had late game armor and weapons.

>>7174298
It's not like the enemies are tough, it's the party AI picking weapons that end up in friendly fire or other bullshit.

Honestly I wish 7 got a proper remake, but in a retro style. A "remaster" or whatever.

Even back then I thought it was extremely interesting but clunky and full of random bugs that made gameplay a chore.

>>7174315
fucking this.
1st time i noticed it was in SI, when Shamino kept hitting the avatar with a big hammer till he's dead even after the combat had ended.

>>7173951
For what it's worth, Richard actually likes one of the Game Boy (B&W) Ultima games. I was kind of surprised. I can't remember exactly which game it is, that particular GBA has been misplaced for a couple of years.

>>7170912
How do you think Ultima compares with later jrpgs like Dragon Quest 1 or Hydlide?
Cool books, by the way.

>>7174340
Play Exult. It's an engine conversion of Ultima VII that adds a lot of modern settings and quality of life features.

>>7175970
Hydlide and DQ are more conventional than Ultiima 1 and 2. You kill monsters, gain XP and rise in levels to grow stronger.
In the early Ultima games only stronger monsters appeared.
In Hydlide the monster movement is more interesting and you can actually outmaneuver them. The bump combat is also more involved since you have two modes to switch between.
DQ is rather different since monsters don't show up on the map and random encounters happen in a separate view. Monsters can't swarm you if you take too long to dispatch them but you have more tactical options for magic.
The worlds in DQ and Hydlide are more interesting to explore than Ultima 1 where you have huge landmasses with 8 towns and dungeons each but they are completely interchangeable. Ultima 2 had more unique towns but it's so broken you won't see much of them, you don't even have to enter the dungeons at all.
The economy in Ultima 1 is also very simple. It's easy to amass the money necessary to buy an aircar and the best equipment without any intermediate steps. Ultima 2 again is broken and you need to grind for a ton of money to raise the stats.
Hydlide doesn't even try to have one and DQ gives you access to stronger things as you progress the game.
The quests in U1 are extremely basic. Visit some landmark, kill some monster or free the princess. The Japanese games have more puzzles such as needing special items. Ultima 2 again is full of bullshit you can't figure out without a guide.
Ultima 1 also has the space combat because LB didn't wan to waste disk space.
Overall Ultima 1 and 2 are very amateurish. There's a lot of thought put into them and not a lot of polish. DQ1 has balancing issues, especially in the Famicom version, but it can offer you more content. Hydlide is as short as Ultima 1 but forms a more coherent experience.

>>7176063
Thanks for the reply anon. I played Dragon Quest 1 over the summer and loved it so I may give Ultima 1 a shot. Even if it's a little amateurish, like you say, there's something sort of nice about exploring these old fantasy game worlds.

if you cant handle the graphics, 4 is remade as a NWN module and 5-6 are Dungeon Siege total conversion mods