/vr/ - Retro Games

Sega's greatest marketing director and developer.

>>7169978
No but few on dreamcast so they must have thought hey why not just make One expensive gaem

>>7169978
Sega knew for awhile it's consoles were not going to survive after the PS2.
They gave no fucks and threw the kitchen sink at the Dreamcast.

Some of the worst pacing I've ever seen in any story based game, the story is actually kinda good, but they drag it all out so fucking much. This is supposed to be a seven part fucking story and we've just now got part 3 like 20 fucking years later. This shit will never be done and Lan Di will never get his.

>>7169991
Florida man mug shots?

>>7169978
Moviegames were all the rage at the time, it's just Sega didn't realise their fanbase didn't give a shit about that and wanted real games, not shit like Metal Gear Solid and Half Life.

>>7170146
Then why is Shenmue such a cult classic? NintendoSega fans?

>>7170116
It's frankly irresponsible to decide to draft a 7 part story for a video game franchise when you don't even know if there is a part 2 in the pipe line. It's even more irresponsible to, after 20 years of the franchise being well and truly and dead, to keep that same 7 part draft for your last hurrah part 3 kickstarter and sell a time wasting inbetwequal as your final goodbye sentimental reunion product.

>>7170149
What part of "cult" don't you understand?

>>7169978
Shenmue was a fucking masterpiece. Even when it came out people called it as such.

If SEGA wasn't so in debt from their absolute failure the Saturn, they would still be making hardware today.

>>7170157
To be fair, it's on record that the second game was developed alongside the first game halfway into development. My guess is it was some autists passion project that sega really believed in for some reason.

>>7170116
Lan Di's helicopter escape was pretty hype.

>>7170162
This. Fuck the Shiturn for tanking Sega. Anyone that likes that piece of shit is a fake Sega fan.

>>7170165
Sure that's fine. Maybe they were really confident is all. Still baffling that they decided to make "Part 3/7" as their comeback tour reunion game. They should have rewrote the script to give closure because the whole series as is is one giant narrative time waster. There's a reason why Yakuza, which sells a complete arc with every game, is far more successful than Shenmue ever was.

>>7170172
Saturn was just too conceptual, too obscure to ever have a proper share in the market.
Granted, that gen was just trash in general and the advent of the Playstation didn't help the steady Nintendo v. Sega rivalry, but Sega didn't do themselves any favors by dragging the Genesis out to death with the 32x and the CD, only to half-ass a console version of their Model 2 board WITHOUT a killer Sonic game to sell to consumers. When Sega cancelled Sonic Xtreme, they might just as well might have filed for bankruptcy.
A Sega console without a scotformer is basically dead on arrival. When Nintendo had the ultra successful Super Mario 64 and Sony had the surprise hits of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, what did Sega have left? NiGHTS into Dreams? Please...

>>7170121
How could you tell? Are we really that bad?

>>7170146
Half Life is based retarded zoomer

>>7170209
Unskippable cutscenes are cancer.
>BuT yOu HaVe CoNtRoL oF tHe ChArAcTeR dUrInG tHeM!!!
Doesn't matter, they still waste your time while you wait for them to finish.

>>7170295
You mean only the beggining that you can skip with console cheats?

>>7170298
There's more than that in the game, dishonest Valvedrone.

>>7170305
No there isn't alf.

yep Shitmue killed SEGA

>>7169978
>on a console no one's buying
That was actually the reason. The Dreamcast needed a killer app.

>>7170165
>some autist
>that sega really believed in for some reason
Do you not know who Yu Suzuki is? He's unironically one of the most important video game developers of all time because of all of the technological pioneering he did during the early 3D era. The very, very early 3D era, when the technology wasn't viable outside of arcades. He's literally the guy who managed to get modern texture mapping to work in a video game.

>>7170209
ok zoomer

>>7172163
ok alf

ITT: Zoomers who have no idea who Yu Suzuki is, his massive success in the Arcade era of the 80s and the 90s, and his importance as the guy who essentially pushed the industry to move to 3D

>>7170172
It's not just the saturn, but the Sega CD and 32x as well. Sega kept making new hardware and then abandoning it if it wasn't a runaway success out of the gate.

Then you had the shitty communication between Sega of America and Japan which caused SoA to not totally support the Saturn.

Shenmue is fucking great, so thank god for that
gas leak.
Amazing piece of millenium-era gaming history.

>>7170116
>part 3 barely advances the plot besides giving Lan Di some implied motivation for his actions and giving Ryo two new companions
just kill the series, suzuki fucked up.

>>7169978
bruh it was fucking 1999. 2 years before GTA 3. shit was fire. there was nothing even close to Shenmue for years.

>>7169978
The 'quicktime' scenes or whatever the fuck they're called should have been the entire game. Most /vr/ fags complain about these, so idk what to think about this "game".

>>7172220
3D only prevailed as a way to cuck indie/low-budget studios.

>>7172768
Shenmue 3 was happy to make you grind and was unapologetically Shenmue. I can't fault it for the 2nd part.

The VA for Shen hua was fucking cringe though.

>>7170195
>steady Nintendo v. Sega rivalry
Anon, don't fool yourself. The only time SEGA was actually Nintendo's competitor on the home console market, not the far behind on the 2nd place, was Genesis/SNES competition.

>>7172909
>rewriting history
Sorry to inform you that in the real world Sega Genesis/MD won out over the SNES, anon.

>>7170116
It's not that crazy an idea when you realize that Yakuza has had well over 7 entries and is only getting bigger with each new entry. Really the industry just wasn't ready for that kind of game yet though and Yakuza built off what Shenmue started in order to find that success.

I still can't believe how cringe the models in 3 are. Animations too, jfc.
For context, shenmue 1 and especially 2 was a transcendental experience for me. One of the best memories of my life. Something magical.

I can't bring myself to play 3. It's like a parody, something you'd dare them to do. Shenmue 2 was zen, shenmue 3 seems like it's boring for the sake of being boring.
I think the reason is that a game is a team effort. Yu might have been the guy with the idea, but there was a solid team of experienced devs who loved videogames and knew how to make something fun and coherent. It seems all he had for 3 was a bunch of fuckups.

>>7172958
A lot of revivals come out like this because they attach some director's name to the project and people think they're going to be getting games like it's 1998 again. But they don't realize the context of all of their favorite games, which was a strong team of like minded fellows who were surfing the trends of the industry while it was hot. Maxing out their creative and technological muscles. You can't just Craigslist some people to recreate glory days like that. It's a thing that requires several key elements of the time and the people living in it. Some of these things...can't be restored.

>>7172935
>Yakuza built off what Shenmue started
wanna know how I know that:
1) you didn't play Shenmue
2) you are underage
3) you heard that from some youtuber
>>7172958
>>7173010
Especially since Shenmue was also a technical powerhouse. To have the same effect today they would have needed a Rockstart budget. The lack of story has no excuse though.

>>7172958
Its because they didnt write their own engine.
Everything wrong with the game can be traced to cutting corners in the programming department, from how lights behave to awful animations to terrible combat.
The foundation was wrong so the final product sucked no matter how much they struggled I bet it was like quicksand with how much of a complex clusterfuck that is UE4.
Have in mind that the object code generated by a straight vanilla compilation is around 90gb and the source alone is around 1gb, that is simply unwieldly for anyone but AAA companies that can afford 100+ programmers.

>>7170149
Because of the shittier than shit game it is thats why

everything SEGA JAPAN ever did was headstrong and stubborn. if they had a terible idea, theyd be offended to the core if you even politely mentioned it. Thats japanese people for you. Burn in hell sega japan. shoulda let the Americans handle everything you fuckin fragile snobs.

>>7170205
>Are we really that bad?
No, you're really that good. The Florida man is legendary. Any one of them.

>>7170295
Good thing that doesnt in any way make it a movie game.

>>7172081
>The Dreamcast needed a killer app.
Soulcalibur, Power Stone, Crazy Taxi and the two Sonic Adventures weren't enough? God why were consoomers such faggots back then?

>>7170149
Its a shonen just look at kh underage retarded zommers love power levels

>THE movie game, invented QTEs, even MGS1 had actual challenge
>4th best selling game on the Dreamcast
>Segafaggots think Sony only has movie games

>>7172868

true. but then yakuza came out on ps2

>>7173837
Eh, I guess? It was also the BIG SERIOUS game never seen before, not "just" an arcade game.
>>7173869
Yeah, six years later, just one year before the PS3.

>>7173239
If you're flipping a bitch because "ackshually Shenmue is completely different kind of game to Yakuza" then I would say you're right, because Yakuza is way better than Shenmue. Shenmue was novel but is a bunch of boring novelties stapled together with a story. Yakuza keeps the novelties and story but adds a more consistently enjoyable gameplay loop and a more fun game to play than Shenmue. So I really don't care if you're having a spergfit because of hair splitting over the differences between Shenmue and Yakuza.

>>7170195
>When Sega cancelled Sonic Xtreme, they might just as well might have filed for bankruptcy.
This was the deciding factor between getting a Saturn and a PS1. I was a die-hard Sonic fan as a kid but there wasn't anything grabbing my attention on Saturn.
>Hmm, Clockwork Knight or Crash Bandicoot boy I just can't decide!

>>7169978
>on a console no one's buying

Let's get real nigs, the Dreamcast had a very decent first year.

>>7174545
It deadlined in 2 years.

>>7172081
>The Dreamcast needed a killer app.
And it killed it real good too!

>>7174012
I didn't say that Yakuza is worse than Shenmue because it's not. But aside from the Japanese settings and the minigames they have little in common.
Yakuza is fundamentally a beat'em-up whereas Shenmue is an adventure game.
There should be an automatic filter that bans people who watch youtubers from here.

>>7173850
>invented QTEs
I don't think so.

>>7175447
>Shenmue is an adventure game.
stop lying Shitmue is a walking simulator
t. played the first game and hated it then dropped the second one after 2 hours

>>7175485
ok zoomer

>>7175485
>stop lying Shitmue is a walking simulator
Sure, assuming that it makes even more different from Yakuza.

>>7175453
I don't think so.

>>7173515
Tons of games have been made in UE that look and play fucking amazing. Blaming the engine is a bitch's excuse. It's all about how you use your tools.

>>7175815
Does it really count as a quick time "event" when the entire game plays like that, though?

>>7175828
All UE4 shit looks like fucking playdoh because of their BRDF lookup tables that gives it that absolutely disgusting magenta undertone to every single fucking color.
That and the fact that anything beyond shootan games requires actual work modifying the engine which then becomes a pain in the ass due to compilation times, this is why they introduced their dynamic C++ compiler a few years ago but that shit is a buggy mess and probably not usable by the time Shenmue 3 was being developed.

>>7170157
I actually like that kind of passion and ambition.
Contrast it to the soulless corporate triple A shit they push out today.

>>7175447
>retard who can't read proceeds to ackchyually over something I already acknowledged like as if he's presenting a revelation
Nobody cares faggot. Yakuza does a better job at giving people what they wanted out of Shenmue and doesn't require 7 parts to tell a revenge story.

>>7175872
Yes, it just means it's an entire game made up of the shittiest parts of other games.

>>7176359
>Generic "not like the old days" post #3,000,001
A 7 part revenge story is a really dumb idea. What are the protagonists supposed to be doing for the 5 parts between part 1 and part 7? Fuming and training and spinning their wheels? This is why Shenmue is dead.

>>7177370
>Yakuza is great
>no u retard you can't read yakuza is great
You know, you are right, you should stick to watch youtubers.

>>7169978
The game was originally intended for the Saturn.

>>7175887
>the fact that anything beyond shootan games requires actual work modifying the engine

You have zero idea as to what you are talking about.

>>7172958
Shenmue 3 feels like Shenmue to me, except for the stupid new stamina mechanic and combat. Part of the reason Shenmue 3 feels so slow is because it punishes you for running, in a game that is 90% running around and asking people questions. The new combat system also makes the game seem more boring than it is. IN Shenmue 1&2 you had to actually learn the moves and train them over and over to get better. In Shenmue 3 they simplified the combat so now to get better all you have to do is tap the A button during a cutscene. Then they force you to do this as part of the main story. There was no forced training in Shenmue 1 or 2, you just got your ass kicked if you weren't good enough.

>>7177675
You stupid fuck, I already acknowledged the differences between the series in the response post but you keep honing in on youtube and Zoomer because you think calling your opponent a Zoomer will make you look less like a retard. Now make another post with the words Youtube and Zoomer in it.

>>7169978
Its more like an interactive movie than a game. great soundtrack too.

>>7177725
And here comes the blueprint babby, sorry anon but real games require learning how to c++

Guys did you know that the Sega Master System was originally just called the "SEGA SYSTEM"?

>>7178061
I won't. But I will start a match of reaction images.

>>7169978
Shenmue started development in 1993. It expense is put into perspective when you consider how arduous it had to be to rewrite the game engine and its tools from scratch twice for the different hardware.

>>7172220
>not shit like Metal Gear Solid
Sega funded Headhunter and during it's promotion, it was coined as a "MGS Killer"

sometimes I read that to make Shenmue profitable, you had to sell more games than Dreamcast.
Who validates that?

I think Sega blamed Yu Suzuki and Shenmue for hiding their failures

>>7180167
>sometimes I read that to make Shenmue profitable, you had to sell more games than Dreamcast.
I've heard that a lot as well. I guess it's possible, the Dreamcast was still rather new at the time.

Oh boy, another Shenmue thread where Yakuzaniggers get to be obnoxious fanboys.
>>7169978
The game was already in development way before the Dreamcsst, and Suzuki was basically seen as Sega's Miyamoto, at the time it only made sense to promote as the Dreamcast's killer app.

>>7172673
>It's not just the saturn, but the Sega CD
Would this fucking meme end? Sega CD had a shelf-life of almost 5 years and at least has two dozen worthwhile games in its library. Not a big success, but that''s better for most add-ons.
>>7172958
Same, I don't know why they couldn't use UE4 to at least mimic the look of the original Dreamcast CG models. That shit has to dirt cheap to do now.

>>7180167
Well look how 3 turned out. Fact is, Sega put their stock into Suzuki after he delivered many hits before that, and he squandered it in just one games, albeit spread across two releases. Suzuki may be a genius at developing arcade games, but large scale adventure games are not his forte, at least when it comes to management.

Also I think Hideki Sato himself said every Dreamcast owner would need to purchase Shenmue twice for it to turn a profit.

>>7180391
>but large scale adventure games are not his forte, at least when it comes to management.
Shenmue may have been too Jap for the west. But it was still a solid game.

I really enjoyed 1, 2 was an okay follow up. Should I pick up 3 or is it really that bad?

>>7172934
>Sega Genesis/MD won out over the SNES, anon.
I'm actually wiping tears from my eyes this nonsense made me laugh so fucking hard.

>>7180447
>Shenmue may have been too Jap for the west
Funny considering it sold more overseas than in Japan. More like it was too mundane for the Japs.

>>7180465
I thought it flopped over here but it turns out it was the 4th best selling title.

>More like it was too mundane for the Japs.
they like JRPGs for Christ sake. How could they not like this?

>>7180494
Jarpigs actually tell complete stories and have things happen.

>>7180494
>they like JRPGs for Christ sake. How could they not like this?
I wasn't talking about gameplay or anime shit dumbass. I was talking about the setting.

I got blasted for my criticism of VMUs in that other Dreamcast thread but the console was completely indulgent and had no shelf life compared to the PS2 and Xbox.

SEGA had a completely narrow minded vision for the Dreamcast just like they did for the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn. The people were the core problem with that company.

Japanesse hubris at its worst. Having said that, first Shenmue is still amazing to play on the Dreamcast. It has an incredibly surreal and dreamlike feel to it.

>>7180536
First off, nice reddit spaces, second
>but the console was completely indulgent
How is that a criticism?
>and had no shelf life
Sega was bleeding money before it launched. It destined for that.
>SEGA had a completely narrow minded vision for the Dreamcast
Promoting your system as more powerful than the competition, easier to develop for, and winning back 3rd party support is the opposite of narrow minded.
>SEGA had a completely narrow minded vision for the Dreamcast
>Japanesse hubris at its worst
Except it was the Americans gunning for it development.

>>7180545

lol, fuck you. i'm not debating you. you're a cunt. rebut that.

>>7180579
lmao kill yourself, you're a nigger. rebut that.

>>7180545
I love when people get pissy about the dead system which ran out of steam in 2 years who say that actually it was doing just fine and that you're the one who's mistaken.

>>7180738
>get pissy about the dead system which ran out of steam in 2 years who say that actually it was doing just fine
Can you read?
>>7180545
>Sega was bleeding money before it launched. It destined for that.

>>7180447
>I really enjoyed 1, 2 was an okay follow up. Should I pick up 3 or is it really that bad?
If you are fine with another almost-ok follow up, yes. It's even worse than 2 though.

>>7173515
>Have in mind that the object code generated by a straight vanilla compilation is around 90gb and the source alone is around 1gb
That makes no sense since source code is human-readable text with many comments that end up stripped out. You sure its not the reverse?

>>7180496
Who shot mr burns is still discussed today. Nothing wrong with cliff hangers.

>>7180524
Oh, Shenmue needed to be set in space then. That'd solve all its problems.

>>7180924
My point was the setting of mid 80s Japan seemed incredibly mundane to Japs while it seemed it exotic and foreign overseas.

Why is this board so retarded?

>>7180971
>Why is this board so retarded?

>>7169978
Zoomer detected.

The money that went into Shenmue ended up creating software techniques that went into Sega's first party games that released on both the Saturn and the Dreamcast. It's like how the money given to NASA has led to the invention of the Zipper or MRI machines.

Sega had a history of turning their software testbeds into games, Virtua Fighter Kids on the Saturn is probably the most well known example (they were working on better facial expressions for 3D polygonal characters in the virtua fighter engine, made the heads really huge to help, and then just released it as a game because it was funny).

tl;dr - Sega didn't spend 70 million dollars on Shenmue, they spent 70 million dollars over the course of ten years on videogame technology, some of it including Shenmue. You only think they spent that much money on the game because you believe everything you read in clickbait articles.

>>7181258
>Zoomer detected. You only think they spent that much money on the game because you believe everything you read in clickbait articles.
Maybe he is a zoomer but outside of being a mega weeb how on earth are you suppose to know that?

Whenever I hear Call of Duty having a budget of 500 million I never once thought of that going to research and development.

>>7181290
I'm so sick of retards on this board smugly posting incorrect shit like they know what they're talking about because they watched a MetalJesusRocks video on youtube.

>>7181306
You were there on those boardroom meetings were you?

>MetalJesusRocks
So thats who hurt you.

>>7181312
You're a retard and your OP is shit. I'm gonna guess that you're 23 years old and your favorite game is Ocarina of Time. Also, you have a shitty beard.

>>7181347
Not all of us can have rare Japanese exclusives like Mystical Ninja Goemon as their favourite game or go round cosplaying as the most obscure NPCs.

>>7181395
Don't be butthurt because I'm right, use this as an opportunity to learn something so you don't make shitty threads in the future.

For the record my favorite videogame is Ultima Underworld, which is not rare or a Japanese exclusive.

>>7181404
>use this as an opportunity to learn something
I've learnt lots today. Thanks Anon.

>don't make shitty threads in the future.
Not my thread.

>>7169978
putting tons of money into seemingly strange niche ideas worked for sega several times previously with games like sonic, sakura wars, and PSO

>>7181404
>my favorite videogame is Ultima Underworld

This is all I needed to hear to know you're over 270lbs and unemployed.

I like walking simulators. Been playing games for 20 years and don't really care about competition or achievements or whatever. Shenmue is more of an adventure than a fighting game.

Shenmue appeals to a niche, most will find it utterly boring.

>>7182323
Shenmue is the tale of a man constantly training for a fight that shall never come. I hope Yu Suzuki never finishes it.

>>7182278
Ultima Underworld might be the best game ever made. It has features that modern games haven't even replicated, and was a full 3D game engine that was on store shelves before Wolfenstein 3D was even in production.

But, if you're a zoomer than you wouldn't appreciate it because it was released 20 years before you were even born.

>>7182328
If you fuck around and waste time in Shenmue (until April 15th, 1987) Lan Di will actually come back and kill Ryo in a cutscene.

You have to specifically try to waste a year and a half of in-game time to get that ending, but it's pretty hilarious.

>>7182402
I'm 35 years old dude I'm not a sooner.

There is absolutely zero chance you're under 270lbs.

>>7172673
Sega CD was excusable as an early showpiece of next-gen hardware, but the 32X was fucking stupid and had no good reason to exist.

>>7172868
Nomad Soul, same year

>>7169978
>SEGA put in Afterburner in the allegedly first walking simulator
Based, still the best walking simulator.

>>7173819
Oh yes the geniuses at Sega of America, at least Sega of Japan knew how to make fucking games

>>7182594
Michael Hutchence went on to jack off + hang himself after the release of this game.

>>7182628
Make my video Nirvana getting cancelled was the real reason Kurt offed himself

Corey Haim got molested by pedophiles during the production, unfortunately.

>>7170195
Wow a rare reasonable take

>>7170149
Production values were huge and a lot of people just enjoyed the ride. first to the plate for open world games more or less and inventing QTE's also is quite notable.

>>7170157

i think its like 1, 345, 67, so far out of 12. 2 was meant to happen on the boat but they skipped it and made it a comic strip. Hoping they make shenmue 4 all last 5 in a big epic to finally find out ryo hazuki gets shot by lan di when a game of spin the bottle goes wrong.