/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7115515
I tried showing my younger girlfriend Earthbound and while I think she finds it charming enough her brain just isn't interfacing with the battle system.

>>7115515
Well FFVII is a shitty FF, FFVI now that was a good FF.

I think expectations about games have changed - lots of hand-holding, tutorials, same-y open world crap, etc.

That homogeneity conditions the mind to think about games in a more specific, narrower fashion. So, no, "le young generation is stupid" is not the case. I think it's just a case of a far different conceptualization about games themselves.

>>7115526
(samefag)
that's probably more of a women can't into games at all, though. The women I've known who really like action/mechanical games, not just narrative, have been profoundly broken and/or ugly. Sorry guys.

I work for and help organize a retro gaming convention on the east coast. Have been for years.

Zoomers fucking LOVE old video games. Out of 3,000 attendees, 63% are zoomers, followed by millennial, and then generation X.

>>7115561
probably because even the poorestfag zoomer can emulate retro stuff on their phone.

not like that's a bad thing.

>>7115531
>they're not stupider they just have less creativity or ability to analyze situations or overcome problems
why do people do this? You sociology professor isn't here

>>7115515
Zoomer games generally hold your hand after the tutorial is over. The gameplay is usually just basic, simple gameplay copy-pasted ad nauseum and they very frequently require zero effort to beat. No exploration, no experimentation, no nothing. Just move forward and shoot things, usually.

So take a person with the "skill set" learned from playing games like this, and make them play a game that was considered easy 20 years ago, and they'll fail. Why? Because games weren't like that then. Simple as that.

Like I remember my first time playing Resident Evil 1 very clearly. It was 1997, I had just turned 14, and my immediate reaction to tank controls went like this
>so the left button turns you to the character's left, no matter what direction they're facing... cool! I got this.

Where as a zoomer's experiene goes more like this
> where's the tutorial? Why can't I move right? What the fuck is this shit!? I just wanna shoot shit. Fuck this game!

It's sad, but zoomers are lazy, entitled and often pretty dumb people.

>>7115561
What convention?

>I have one friend who ...
>why all ... are like this?

>>7115619
Clearly OP isn't the only one with this experience

"Zoomer" here, and I think it's just you. I've always been into older games and so have the majority of other zoomers that I know.

>>7115515
Older games have ton of Artificial Difficulty with lots of bullshit that cannot be handled without foresight.
That isn't fun. It isn't good game design. The only people who think this are blinded by nostalgia.

>>7115621
Clearly a thread of 11 posters is a sample size worthy of consideration.

>>7115619
>x thing exists due to blind faith

>>7115635
>Artificial Difficulty
Only autistic people capitalize things that aren't proper nouns, anon. Do you often feel stressed while playing video games?

>>7115515

That's weird. What games does he normally like? Because not using materia in FF7 or fusion in SMT is so basic. Like, games these days have those style mechanics too. Both those games explain the mechanics fairly clearly.

I guess the Midgar Zolom is an enemy you're not really supposed to beat first time, but I don't think that's unique these days either.

>>7115668
He primarily plays gacha style games, anime girl png type mobile games. I couldn't tell you the names of them because...who cares but he posts his rare pulls on his social media all the time. Retro games have been a new kick for him, one that kind of surprised me because he never showed any real interest before. He looked like he had won a million dollars when I showed him all my consoles.

>>7115679
That sounds nice. Besides being a little smooth brained at least he has interest. My youngest brother loves phone games, but not real games. It's sad.

>>7115686
Yeah, I'm happy he's showing interest. I've been making sure he hits on all the classic games first so he has all the milestones down. He asked to borrow FF8 before I beat Zolom for him, hopefully he ends up getting a bit further with the advice I gave him about materia. If he found FF7 confusing, GF junctioning and the draw mechanic would totally mind break him.
Thinking of getting him into Silent Hill before Resident Evil for a start on horror games, Silent Hill is less mechanically focused and more story focused than Resident Evil so I think he'll jive with it once he's learned how tank controls work. What do you think?

>>7115658
I think that post was bait due to all the buzzphrases anon

I showed my zoomer nephew a shump and I kinda regret it since he absolutely could not make sense of what he was seeing on the screen and is now extremely dismissive of them. Its a shame, I enjoy bullshitting to the kid about other stuff, but with games he HAS to have a hand holding tutorial or have it be at your pace open ended like Minecraft. Pure gameplay games (fighters, shumps, platformers, etc) go completely over his head mechanically.

>>7115756
>a fucking bullethellarino
Bad idea since most Shumps are designed to challenge players who have been mastering every previous shmup starting with Space Invaders

>>7115696
Silent hill should be fine. Hopefully he can learn how to control the game because I'm certain he'll enjoy them. Good luck anon.

>>7115759
Perhaps, thought of that too. Dosn't help that the game I was actually playing was DoDonPatchi Daifukkatsu which is notably more retardedly difficult.
Who knows, maybe I can get him warmed up with a simpler+easier game.
I should just dump some roms on that kid any have him figure it out, not like he is going to play anything else on his laptop with integrated graphics.

>>7115526
>my younger girlfriend

This is a weird way of saying it, especially in context of this topic. How young you talking here? Making sound like it's a full generational gap or something.

>>7115515
I think this is why younger people say turn based combat is out dated. It's just because they want to power through everything like an action game instead of try things. It's a way for them to project their perceived shortcommings onto the games.
"I'm not to blame here. I'm a hardcore gamer. It's the game's fault for being too old. That's why I can't get very far"

>>7115775

I've been playing video games incessantly since Atari 2600 and I still don't respect hardcore shmups. They are kinda silly I think. Put him on Gradius III for SNES or something, that's easy for a casual player to understand. He won't finish it or anything but at least he'll see how an old 2D spaceship shooty game can be appealing.

>>7115515
A lot of times the "right" way to play isn't that obvious for a first time player. When you got a new RPG back in the 90s did you really know right off the bat where to invest your time? With no context or advanced knowledge you don't have the foresight to know what will be useful or not. "Just master an All materia, bro" looks like meaningless busywork at the start of the game.

>This is a weird way of saying it, especially in context of this topic. How young you talking here? Making sound like it's a full generational gap or something.

>>7115816

Do they say that? Seems like turn-based games are doing okay in the indie world. Look at Monster Train for instance. I mean yeah action games are more popular... but hasn't that always been true, at least since the hardware became good enough that decent action games could even exist?

>>7115816
>I think this is why younger people say turn based combat is out dated.
That's not a young person thing. People older than me have said it and I'm 31.

>>7115515
Im from 96 so idk if i count as a millenial or as a zoomer (and i dont give a fuck what i am desu)

I dont get why you wouldnt try everything a game offers you
If you cant beat a boss you try to find out its weaknesses, or use the mechanics the game presents to you, at least thats how i see it

>>7115679
Also i can kinda relate to this
My step-cousin mostly plays shit like Fortnite and mobile games, but when he saw all my games and consoles when family was over he was genuinly interested in them, i showed him some games and now he always wants to do 2-player contra with me whenever they come over here

>>7115849
What about Persona 5 lol
Thats turn based and was one of the biggest games the past few years to the point it has a cringe fanbase

>>7115870
You are an inbetweener like gen Xers born in 1965 or millennial born in the early 80s. You are officially a zoomer if you don't remember what america was like before 9/11

>>7115883
Im.from europe but one thing i remember about 9/11 was kid me asking my mom if they were gonna rebuild 'those towers that collapsed"

I was an innocent kid

>why are zoomers braindead
What's the point of rhetorical threads?

>>7115894
It's for people to smugly jack themselves off over feeling superior to people who flew out of a woman's crotch later than them.

>>7115903
>t. 14 years old

>>7115908
I'm in my early 30s.

>>7115515
>SMT Nocturne
>Final Fantasy 7
>complains about grinding
Yeah, no shit, you shove him two JRPGs which are the mosty grindy genre since forever and you are surprised. People have been complaining about grinding for decades.
Despite the poor choices of examples you are unfortunately correct. Now unless you spoonfeed them information and instructions, zoomers are generally incapable of doing research. If something is not in the first 10 google results might as well not exist.

I imagine the zoomers who grew up with their dad's/cousin's old n64/psx even ps2 don't have the same issues as someone who's parents bought them call of the sandbox MCCXVIII when they were in first grade

>>7115923
Isnt this why pokemon has more handholding too

Like compare Ruby and Sapphire with thier remakes
The remakes hold your hand more ans hand you a free legendary after badge 5

>>7115946
That's actually pathetic. The average kids introduction to pokemon red/blue was their friends Gameboy in 1997 with no guide or anything

>>7115909
>>>/v/

>>7115923
If you're grinding in FF7, you're awful at video games. There is zero need to grind at any point in Final Fantasy 7 unless you're trying to unlock some sort of secret content, in which case you're already invested

I tried fighting zolam multiple times even after getting past it with chocobo cuz I thought it would drop something OP

>>7115961
What

>>7115923
IIRC ff7-9 all have fairly doable low/no level challenges

>>7115981
What about ff6

I didnt have to grind until i got to the floating continent where everything easily kills me

>>7115836
Yeah, thats what I was thinking, Gradius, Varth, R-Type and perhaps a Star Fox game (its a shump of a kind, just with a behind the ship view) are all great ones that are easy to follow but also hard to master for a new player. Good challenge to play around with without a clusterfuck of stuff on the screen.
The kid is interested in older stuff but without the tutorials that modern games have he always drops them and never ends up building that base level of skill. Just been trying to think of some mechanically dead simple games he could fuck around with and see if he ends up liking any then show him more stuff of that from there depending on what he picks up.

>>7116031
Ff6 kinda rewards you to hold off on grinding thanks to esper level up bonus system

>>7116002
It does drop something OP, it gives you Beta for your Enemy Skill materia.

>>7116037
Well i held off it because there was no need to but now im getting my ass kicked

Luckily i have a save from before going to the floatinf continent so grinding time it is

>>7116038
Heh, like I need equipment to have beta

>>7116036
For me it's Tyrian.

>>7115837
Honestly, if you read the original OP and imagine someone online in the 90s saying it, it would read almost exactly the same, but instead of calling him a zoomer, he's just say it's an idiot cousin. I don't think it's a zoomer problem, kids are just fucking stupid no matter what

>>7115696
You will have to do the piano puzzle for him

>>7116058
Thats actually an awesome idea. Tyrian gives a lot of things to play around with and is really beginner friendly

>>7115531
hey guys i found the tranny

>>7116065
Honestly how the fuck were you supposed to figure that out without internet?

>>7116092
Are you fucking braindead,you read the riddle and mess with the key,you see some of them dont make sound,reread the riddle and solve the damn puzzle and no you dont nees any fucking musical knowledge to figure that one out.

>>7116142
Sir, maybe I am braindead

>>7116060
I don't know man, in the 90s I was still playing 80s RPGs like Ultima 4 when I was 10, and I knew plenty of other kids that played old shit as well. 90s games still didn't really have much hand holding so the lack of hand holding with 80s games felt just like the norm as well when I was little.

>>7115679
>He looked like he had won a million dollars when I showed him all my consoles.
How about starting with easier, more mainstream newer titles? Start with something like Shadow of Colossus and Halo. Then move to PS1 era with Tomba and Tekken 3, and so on. These games are examples only. Maybe ask him his favourite genres and start from there.

>>7115601

LIRG Expo

>>7115954
>with no guide or anything
Lmao

Everyone had game mags then or the internet.

>>7115526
Earthbound was grindy as all hell and the battles were the worst part of the game. It literally would have been better if it were just a walking simulator through the good part of the game, the plot and characters.

Why is this board so obsessed with zoomers?

>>7115515
>zoomers
No your cousin is just retarded.

>>7116571
They're not retro, meaning they're generally effeminate and retarded.

>>7115515
I find older games easier to get into. Modern releases have all these pointless intricate RPG elements and character progression with perks and abilities and you have all these different ways to get them including cash shops and shit. Even supposedly simple games add extra layers of complexity to what should be simple.

By comparison many retro games have really simple mechanics and you have to play RPGs to get some depth and even then they operate on simple rules.

>>7115756
you should have just played megaman x or something. dont try too hard.

>>7115756

That doesn't make sense. You just point and shoot. The mental capacity needed is so miniscule.

>>7115840

Thats fucking disgusting holy fuck

>>7115849

"I am Setsuna" and "Lost Sphere" are some of the best JRPGs of last gen, and they were majorly fucking slept on. Im still fucking pissed.

>>7115878
People bought it because its weeaboo bait. Look at the P5 fanbase. They never even played P3 or P4, and they thought the new "The World Ends With You" was a fucking "Persona 5 ripoff."

>>7115584
>>so the left button turns you to the character's left, no matter what direction they're facing... cool! I got this.
I'm a zoomer and this was me when I first played Onimusha.

>>7116663
Half the P5 fanbase hasn't even played P5

>>7115658
autistic people and Germans as well, though I am aware there may be a lot of redundancy there.

Maybe he just doesn't give shit about JRPGs? Give him Contra or Shinobi or something and see how he goes. I wouldn't have been able to play either of those games for more than a couple hours, then or now.

>>7116092
It's easy. You just have to think about all the hints given to you. With some trial and error anyone can do it.

>>7115515
>Have you noticed this in zoomers as well, anon?
no, because i don't spend all my time on message boards arguing about video games like a fucking autist

get another hobby, loser

>>7115584
Dude I love Resident Evil, but people ave been complaining about tank controls for decades at this point, its not a zoomer thing

>>7118114
SEETHING zoomer

>>7115531
>>7115515
This is stupid. I used walkthroughs and FAQs all the time. And cheat codes unironically.
And people should read the fucking tutorial and manual before going online to get spoonfed. Even before google existed, I search for solutions online instead of talking shit about "getting gud".

>>7115584
>The gameplay is usually just basic, simple gameplay copy-pasted ad nauseum and they very frequently require zero effort to beat
Thats the game industrys fault. Because they expanded their customer base to include everyone. Out of sheer greed for increasing profit margins. You dont get rich by catering to hardcore gamers. Thank you Snoy for fucking gaming beyond repair.

>>7115515
As a zoomer, most of the games that I played while growing up were flash games and/or oversimplified, they did have "mechanics" but they did not matter as much as pure "skill" in the game, so me and my entire generation got used to mindlessly playing through games, with rewards for simple actions. I liked "hard" platformers so I eventually discovered emulators.
I still think oldschool RPGs are shit, because you have no information about the general mechanics without reading the manual, which I don't have. At least NES RPGs, SNES ones are actually easy, and I never played one on another retro system

>>7117001
Yeah I was thinking the same thing
Like with >>7115561's convention, if kids there are mostly playing arcade-style games that are designed to be quickly understood, that's not surprising

>>7118968
just pirate the manual too bro

My wife asked my stepson (he's 14) to clean the shitter and he argued with her about it for 30 minutes. If he had put that much time and effort into cleaning he could've washed the shower curtain and scrubbed the grout.
Kids are just dumb in general. Anyone under the age of 30 is basically worthless. Blame the schools, blame the media, blame whoever you want. It's not a new problem.

>>7116075
>>7115565
Pathetic

>>7115515
tank controls arent hard. i never understood the whining.

>>7115515
You want to know the issue?
In modern gaming, anything that can be construed as a resource is to be hoarded as hard as possible. If you can grind for free instead of "spending resources", you are winning.
> I asked him if he had ever utilized demon fusion, and he gave me a blank stare, looked embarrassed and said no. I don't even understand how you can miss something like that.
He didn't miss it. He thought that his demons were consumable "resources" and that if he "spent" them on fusion, he might waste them. Pokemon runs on this principle: the Pokemon you've had since route 1 is going to be stronger for its level, and higher level, than what you can catch in the wild, even if the wild thing seems like it has potential, or useful typing, or a cool move. Time spent training up something from the wild is time NOT spent training up your ace.
> I had asked him if he had gotten Elemental materia from the Shin-Ra building, and he said yes, but that it didn't really seem to do anything, so he didn't bother with it.
This is a bit more confusing. I'm not sure what to make of it.

>>7119301
> demons were consumable "resources" and that if he "spent" them on fusion, he might waste them
he might also have thought the game followed standard RPG rules where the one you get at higher power has worse long-term potential and he'd be better off sticking with what he had to begin with

>>7116696
>>7116663
Guess im the minority of people that liked p5 that also llayed p2 p3 and p4

>>7115679

Oh, that makes more sense. He's just learning about gaming in general. If he's only played Gacha games those really or closer to slot machines than anything else.

>>7115515
3 reasons:
-They don't understand that skill with older games is something that must be acquired through repeated play. Like any skill, it takes time to build up.
-They play games poorly emulated with lots and lots of input lag on shitty displays that ad even more input lag. They also use controllers with shitty dpads that make it seem harder.
-They abuse save states. Save states if overused actually make games feel like they're 10 times harder than they are. Because they allow you to bypass the skill development stage of gaming and get to the later levels very quickly. The later levels in games are meant to only be reached through skill, and as zoomers skip the skill building stage, their perception is flawed and they end up way out of their depth, playing sections of games that are way above their skill level. It makes them think they're 10 times harder than they actually would be had they just not used save states and played the game properly.
Save states also make you not play a game to your potential, coz you just think "fuck it i can just re-load and try again".

The other thing is games today are basically the opposite of how they used to be. Most games today give little resistance or challenge. As long as you can stay awake through the cutscenes and horse riding sections, any idiot can get to the end quite easily.

>>7120396
Avoiding save states is mandatory for playing retro games. Proper saving can be added as a convenience thing if it basically does the same thing as leaving a console on (for example, Megaman X collection adds a save at the password screen. You can still use the passwords if you really wanted to), but save states are cancerous and actively harm the experience.

>>7120403
>but save states are cancerous and actively harm the experience.
Basically this.
Someone i know played resident evil 2 and played with savestate,he then bragged about getting an A rank while the game counted 0 save obviously since he used savestate.
Didnt bother telling him his run wasnt legit,at least he enjoyed the game and didnt complain about tank controls.

>>7120403
>Proper saving can be added as a convenience thing
I'm not sure if there's more like it, but someone made a romhack of Metroid where you can save where the password screen used to be. Problem is not everyone has a flashcart, so it needs to be emulated.

>>7115515
I wish rl was like jrpg and you could just go into the forest and kill stuff for a living...

>>7115780

She is ok, officer.

>>7119009
>subtle my wife's son
is he black

>>7115515
Devolution in hominids has been going on for a long time. It's both nature and nurture and we now know that those are intertwined. Homo millennialus and Homo zoomerus can be frustrating. But so can a dog and the dog is probably smarter and a better gamer. So long as you're a Homo sapiens and mate with another Homo sapiens and raise your spawn correctly you and your progeny will be fine. Sounds like that kid might be a write off though. And if I were you I'd get tested for zoomeritus. It's genetic.

>>7115526
>I tried showing my younger girlfriend sister wife

>>7122123
I call all extended relations their wife's kid after I get past the second person whether it makes sense or not

>>7115515
Can you imagine if new gamers had to start on old games before moving on to newer games give them MYST and most would never play a game again..yeah I'm an old fag but it's fun to consider.

>>7115515
I blame the lack of having a manual around on this and relying on internet sites like gamefaqs (which a lot of those faqs give a lot of terrible advice). I used to be a brute forcer until I started reading manuals and took my time instead of acting like I was in a track race.

>>7116540
Actually no, we were still just spreading things we heard based on rumors on the playground at school, that's how I learned about missingno and how to encounter it. The internet wasn't something commonly used for personal use until the late 00s.

>>7122205
>we were still just spreading things we heard based on rumors on the playground at school
Nothing has changed. But now the playground is the "grownup" yellow press that gives you the fix you need.

>>7122147
With very few exceptions that's the safest bet. I used to call them all kiddo but at some point one of them took offense. Might have been that dude who identified as a 6 foot 5 Chinese woman.

>>7116036

Reading this over again I think probably he wouldn't even handle Gradius well. The functioning of the upgrade system isn't 100% obvious; you have to do certain special things to make upgrade pods appear and then you have to watch that weird upgrade meter and hit the button at the appropriate spot and even think a little about which upgrade you want. I mean that's all simple and fun for a halfway decent player but this dude sounds like he isn't even that...