/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7097382
>how the FUCK do I get gud at shmups brehs?
like anything, you PRACTICE. Seriously that's how you get good unless you just have natural talent for that sort of shit.

>>7097382

There's honestly a lot more gameplay variety than you'd expect from this genre. Ikaruga is "easy" because most danmaku players are used to visual density.

Try an older console STG, like the ones you see recommended for the Genesis/MD. Most are very basic, but still engaging.

Nobody thinks Ikaruga is easy or casual. They're full of shit. You're not meant to play through a shmup one night and beat it. Arcade games in general are meant to be hard. You keep coming back to them like an old friend.

>>7097382
You could start by playing a shmup that isn't shit. I recommend Darius Gaiden.

>>7097389
>>7097406
>>7097417
>>7097430
Alright, thanks for the advice bros.
See, I think that's the thing. I'm probably not approaching the genre with the right mindset. Expecting to beat these games in my first couple of playthroughs and all.

Also again, are there any controllers you personally recommend? Or does that not really matter?

>>7097382
>I can't even beat Ikaruga, and supposedly it's one of the most casual ones.
You got memed

even the actual 'casual' arcade shmups like Fantasy Zone or Gradius are not something the average player is going to laugh their way through over a slow weekend

>>7097532
Your controller is probably not the problem, in fact, dying is not really a problem either per se, only failing to learn or giving up

try to play for score, it'll force you to git gud in most of them. you don't need to get a WR or anything.

>>7097576
Totally wrong. In fact old shmups are far more challenging than bullet hells don't fall for the Cave memes and their convoluted scoring systems unrelated to fundamentals. Have you 2-alled the entire strikers trilogy? Have you seen the second loop of Tatsujin Ou? Doubtful.
Let me remind you that I don't play for score, I strictly play for fun (big difference). But thanks for your ''pro-tip''.

>>7097382
>Shoot 'em ups
uhhh, can we change the acronym for this genre? that term is extremely triggering in light of recent school shootings

>>7097774
Please stay on topic. Btw, let me remind you I don't play for score (it's not a cope) I'm more of a survival player. Anyway I have 5 hours of monitoring discord, twitch, farm and lurking marks' discord ahead of me today, no time to play Daioh unfortunately!

>>7097784
Retardo forever living rent-free in your head, kek!

>>7097382
play parodius

I like shmups a lot but I feel like I'm not very good.
I play a fair bit of Galaga, and usually get up to wave 9 - 10 at best. I also really like 1942, Donpachi and Centipede.
Any tips to git gud other than lots of practice, or any recommendations? Bonus for pretty/flashy games, I have an MS9-29

>>7098278
strikers 1945

>>7098289
Just fired up and cleared first level. Little drunk and on my phone so not the best experience but seems really solid, cheers my dude.

Look up a glossary and learn the basic concepts like streaming, sealing, point blanking, macro dodging, etc. Apply them consciously until you get used to everything and start doing them naturally. Memorize stages and build a plan, focus on what you need to do and where on the screen you need to move to. Be proactive and kill enemies quickly and set up favorable situations by misdirecting patterns, rather than just reacting to them as they pop up on screen.

Use savestates to practice sections of the game before doing full runs. The length of the sections you practice, how much you practice vs play and other things depend on your preferences. If savestate grinding is becoming frustrating do something else, having fun is more important than just getting good even if it makes you less efficient. Unlike modern games, shmups don't give you small goals to aim for, you need to figure those out on your own. If you want you can use savestates to set up a structure reminiscent of modern games and play full stages with only one life, or set up a "boss rush" of sorts, or something like that.

Playing just one stage or one shorter section of the game and optimizing your score is a good way to get the hang of a game's scoring system. Trying to score a full game can be overwhelming, and survival/scoring will get in each other's way. By scoring shorter sections you can ignore all that and just focus on improving your score until you understand the system. After that it's a lot of effort & taking strategies from better players (not necessarily the best since what they do will be too difficult for you at first).

Possibly obvious, but it's helped me: don't look at the bullets, look at the negative space surrounding them. Helps me see the gaps instead of the fireworks display.

>>7097596
>w*jack

>>7097382
I am you except with rhythm games. I’ve always wanted to get into games like Guitar Hero and DDR, but its like no matter what I do I can never get the timing right.

>>7098623
Serious question, LCD or CRT? Guitar Hero is literally unplayable for me on LCDs even after fucking with latency settings in the non-retro installments.

>>7098648
I started out on a CRT, and fucking with the latency settings did help me a little once I got an LCD. But I always struggled with the more difficult songs on Medium and could barely get through the easiest songs on Hard. All those clusters of notes coming down, man... I don’t know how people coordinate their hands and eyes to do all of that. The rhythm genre is the only game genre that actually makes me feel dumb and slow-witted, and I put up with the frustration because I love music and want to look as cool as people who can beat those types of games.

>>7097382
feel, dont think, use your instincts.

>>7098710
t. gets hard stuck on stage 3 in every game

This is my method OP, for maximum fun and ability.

Play the game on Neo Geo AES rules, give yourself 4-5 credits and work your way thru the shmup. After you can beat the game with that, lower the credits one by one. Eventually, you'll get to where you can 1cc. I find this method way more fun than save states and all that other autistic shit shmup players say you should do.

>>7098693
Which games do you have? I'm not quite pro and haven't played for a few years but able to beat multiple tracks on expert with no misses. When I was last active I could beat laid to rest perfectly with my back to the TV

>>7097784
>Anyway I have 5 hours of monitoring discord, twitch, farm and lurking marks' discord ahead of me today, no time to play Daioh unfortunately!

Lmao turns out this describes retardo perfectly

>>7097784
>making up lies about Ricky because you got kicked from his discord
Sad!

>>7100641
>150 posts a day
>3000 posts this month, so far
Reading and responding to discord replies, let's say 1 minute per post. That's 150 minutes minimum aka 2.5 hours (per day) then add 4chan posting, lurking in Mark's, monitoring other cords shmup farm, twitch, twitter and youtube streams,... easy 4 to 5 hours a day wasted! You think he only posts in Gus' discord? lol. And he plays plays shmups 40 mins every couple days to keep up appearances.
Looks like a secondary discordpig to me.

150 posts. Per. Day.
In. One. Discord channel alone.
The facts don't lie.

>>7100710
>3000 posts this month alone, 150 per day
only thing worse than a jarpig is a discordpig. dis guy lol

>>7097382
learn to route shmups and copy a good replay simple

>>7100710
calling discord messages "posts" seems like a stretch. any reasonably sized irc channel would have comparable traffic

>>7097774
this

>>7100748
3000 posts in 20 days, no way around it.
if he's not posting big essays, he's having long conversations with short posts. Which means reading, replying, reading, replying. He watches discord like a hawk even when not posting.

>>7098693
I know for myself that i like playing with the hyperspeed on to help distinguish the patterns (since they spread the notes apart visually).

Although hyperspeed might be overwhelming since there's less time to react to the notes

retro shmup event streaming now, from japan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_CGf_f2Cw

>>7100748
mfw cope
>>7100913
it's said innit ?

>>7100978
god i love dangun feveron. i actually feel like i'm playing to the music when i play it.

>>7097382
You grind and you grind and you grind until you’re good. You’ll be naturally better at some games than others. Don’t ask why you’ll just get a headache. Look for friends to talk to or music to listen to while you play. Sometimes I even listen to audiobooks. A lot of getting good is being able to improvise when things don’t go how you want so you want your brain to be able to juggle multiple tasks at once. The distractions might make you take deaths at first but the enjoyment of music or conversation will let you grind longer without getting bored which is really what makes you better in the end. Also try stuff like no death or no power up challenges anything that makes you better at the game.

>>7100998
>Dangun feveron
great game m8 worth clearing at least once

>>7098313
And definitely everything this guy said

>>7101001
>talk to friends to distract you from the boredom of playing shmups
maybe you're playing the wrong genre?
have you tried grinding discord chat instead?

>>7101005
>>7100978
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_CGf_f2Cw
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_CGf_f2Cw

Epic. Dangun feveron came out in 1998 but looks amazing decades later!

>nooo you aren't playing shmups enough! s-stop engaging with the community!!

Give it up jarpigs, Retardo won.

I dislike it whenever levels in shmups are designed in such a way to make them incredibly hard, even close to impossible, if you take a certain path. This is CAVE's biggest design problem and it's why I play other devs more nowadays.

why is simple patterns but hard as fuck recovery so much more fun than complex patterns but easy as fuck recovery bros?

>>7101157
truxton fan?

>>7101103
>that pic
> 11,699 posts in 3 months, but not enough time to shmup
lol


>>7101153
depends are you talking about shmup bullet patterns or discord chat-flow patterns?

>>7101103 (You)
>that pic
> 11,699 posts in 3 months, but not enough time to shmup
lol

>>7101157
depends are you talking about shmup bullet patterns or discord chat-flow patterns?

>>7101103
>that pic
> 11,699 posts in 3 months, but not enough time to shmup
lol


>>7101157
depends are you talking about shmup bullet patterns or discord chat flow patterns?

>>7101232
You forgot to copy the (You)

so all that talk about secondaries was pure projection bruhs? Damn.

>>7101241 (You)

what's a secondary?

>we will never find out the actual reason why tardo has such a burning hatred for jrpg

Biggest advice I can give is you focus on your hitbox when shit gets spammy and get good at killing enemies as they spawn
But most of it comes from practice

Also gonna throw it out there but gundemonium series is my favorite

>>7101295
>what's a secondary?
players who can't find time to consistently play shmups because they primarily play jrpgs or something else (or play discord for hours a day)

>>7101103
Desu senpai and other memes I have been playing on and off random shmups, I'm bad at them and I get somewhat consistently to fourth stage in strikers already, holy kek. I must not even have one hour long playtime in the game.

>>7097382
Try deathsmilus. It's easier for me than motherfucking ikaruga, holy shit, you cannot fathom how much I hate ikaruga, swear on me mum.

>>7101328
>Deathsmiles

>>7101349
What? I get to the special stage fine, I'm sure I could get far in the last stage if I weren't retarded and I always went to the special stage.

>>7101353
who is your main girl?

>>7101357
Windia, please don't lewd the deathsmiles.

>>7101308
to add to this, use your shot to tell where your ship is

wow that PC version looks so much better than arcade version of deathssmiles

>>7101103
>>7101232
>ricardo has 11,699 posts in 3 monthss
that's way tooo much chatting. for anyone! me myself I have 300 in 3 months ....but i prefer playing shmup or a jrpg instead

>>7101431
>>7101357
ok I will try this game now

>>7101103
You’re right. Boredom was the wrong word. I meant frustration. But I talk to my actual friends I’ve had for 30 years because they still play. Not some random discord idiots. We do use discord though. Not gonna lie.

>>7101103
Wow lol that's nuts so much posting.

>>7100978
Enjoyed this event a lot glad it's happening again!

Ricardo streaming: https://www.twitch.tv/synthricardo

>credit feed to see how the game is
>if you like it practice the 1cc and scoring
Is this the proper method?

>>7101675
Do 1 credit and see how it is.

>>7101662
lmfao this isn't serious right? This amateur play is the guy who has been seething about being a hardcore player?

Got this far, it's a relatively ez game.

>>7101675
I doubt credit feeding will be enough to know if you like a game, you need a decent taste of survival and scoring to truly know otherwise youre going solely off aesthetics

>>7101431
The arcade version is the size a postage stamp. What did you expect?

>>7097559
This, OP needs to knuckle down and git gud

>>7101662
>>7101679
>lmfao this isn't serious right? This amateur play is the guy who has been seething about being a hardcore player?
Not so fast, that's what 7000 hours of careful shmup practice looks like.

>>7101716

This guy is so mentally ill.

>>7097382
I don't play a lot of shmups specifically, but I do love arcade games including shmups. I know most people have already said it in this thread, but I want to toss in one more to the pile that there's really no way around practicing. Arcade games are the most misunderstood kind of games because their structure belies their intent. A game from start to finish would take you maybe half an hour to an hour at absolute most, but they're meticulously designed to have such rich complexity within that timespan that there's absolutely no way you'll cleanly play through a game for a long time.

It's sort of like playing a sheet of music. Yes, you could just plink and plonk your way note by note and eventually see the end of the song, but nobody would say you truly played the song. A genuine performance comes from days, weeks, months of practice, building up a fluency that goes beyond just reacting from note to note and into a holistic understanding of the full piece. You go beyond the notes into seeing the phrases, feeling the music. And then, one day, you take a deep breath and play the song. And it's beautiful. Then, once you got that 1CC and you know the piece, you start making it truly yours and play for score.

This is what really defines arcade design: the fun comes from grappling with it, being knocked around by it, learning its language, hearing what it's trying to tell you, and eventually coming to truly know it. It's a more adversarial relationship to a game than most people are used to, but it really is so much fun once you give yourself over to it.

But yeah, just relax and play. Pay attention to what's fucking you up, try stuff out to see what might work, and then remember what you did and apply those ideas in later places. See the game as a series of smaller pieces that will eventually become a whole, but don't get caught up trying to reach that whole all at once.

>>7097382
>>7101919
Also, I use a Hori Fighting Commander.

>>7101919
>Then, once you got that 1CC and you know the piece, you start making it truly yours and play for score.
Excellent advice. Very true.

>>7101919
Got a youtube with any clears? Genuinely interested

>>7102062
Like, my own? No. I just said I like arcade games, not that I'm good at them.

>>7102068
go for it, you can start easy and work your way up

>>7102165
Ehh, uploading what I do doesn't seem very worthwhile if someone could just go watch someone else's superplay. I have some videos of me playing a scoring version of SIGIL for Doom on UV and some S Rank score runs for Metal Wolf Chaos, but that's because there aren't other videos like it.

I used to run a caravan shmup competition on /vr/. That kind of stuff is fun because the shortness of the runs isolates that curve of getting to know a game and growing in fluency. I've been meaning to start that up again.

Copying mediocre runs is more feasible for most players than copying a superplay, fyi.

>>7102271
Sure, but the net is full of mediocre plays. And superplays sure are more fun to watch.

>>7097596

>>7100453
3, World Tour, and 5. I spent the most time between 3 and World Tour, didn't get much into 5 even though I blew a lot of money on new instruments. I haven't touched a GH guitar in years, to be honest, but in the 3 or 4 years I was active I couldn't dream of beating a song on Expert. My fingers just couldn't react at the same speed my brain was supposed to process all that information, though that didn't stop me from trying.

>>7101716
>7K hours
I'm guessing he counts discord chatting as shmup playtime?

>>7097382(OP)
Look Op. It boils down memorizing enemy patterns and their bullets.

I play using a SNES Mini controller using an unofficial USB Adapter.

My recommendations on what to start with in SHMUPS are the Fantasy Zone series and from there slowly pick harder games until you feel like you can take on any SHMUP without breaking a sweat.

>>7103210
I'm most familiar with 2 but played a lot of 3/WT (not so much 5)
If you want to go back to it, try to find a few songs you can't get sick of easily and practice on medium until you're able to consistently hit most notes (use practice if you need to), and if the audio gets annoying you can always mute since it sounds like you're reliant on the video a lot. Freak on a leash and misery business are great practice tracks to get back into it, and also the Tool tracks are great for building stamina. Once you're decent at those move on to scream aim fire and really push yourself (WT).
Once you're a bit more used to it, swap over to GH3 and try to go through the blocks of 5 songs at a time and get 5 stars on each before moving onto the next tracks (starting at medium). Once you've cleared the game start again on hard, and it's the entire learning experience all over again. Don't worry too much about the boss stages for score/ranking, since they're different and throw curveballs to keep you on your toes.
It takes a lot of practice to get good unless you're naturally great with rhythm and reaction times. Took me more than a few years. If reaction is the main issue, unironically try practice with a controller to build up a bit.

>>7098747
This is sort of how I started to learn the genre - beat the game in 7 credits, then 5, then 4, etc. I didn't get a huge amount of clears this way but the learning at this early stage gave me a lot of good foundations in resource management, routing, and dodging. I don't tell anyone to stress out about scores or 1ccs at first.

This retro genre has the biggest issue with secondaries by far that I know of
I'll share my perspective: I've been on a shmups discord for a good while, like a couple of years. And new people trying the games for the first time come relatively frequently. But the weird thing is, after the initial sampling their playtime goes down down while their chat time goes up up up (even if they seem to be enjoying themselves when starting). These obnoxious secondaries and jarpigs tried shmups but didn't really get into them, yet stick to the community aspect nonetheless for whatever reason. Some act in very defensive and obnoxious ways when you point out that they socialize and chat way more than they play, or point out their progress is sluggish and needs improvement. They'll complain about not having time to shmup yet make thousands of posts a week while ignoring practice! This is a serious problem, let me remind you how much the community suffers from secondaries and jarpigs who socialize more than they play.

>>7104483
>This retro genre has the biggest issue with secondaries by far that I know of...This is a serious problem, let me remind you how much the community suffers from secondaries and jarpigs who socialize more than they play.
you mean the guy in these pics? >>7101103 >>7100913 >>7100726


>>7098747
>Play the game on Neo Geo AES rules, give yourself 4-5 credits and work your way thru the shmup.
>>7104091
> beat the game in 7 credits, then 5, then 4, etc. I didn't get a huge amount of clears this way but
This might work for easier games like Metal Slug 1, Violent Storm, Insector X, etc... but harder games are better approached with intentional practice using save states or individual Stage attempts. When you know all the bosses and stages fairly well then you can start doing full attempts.

>>7097382
>anyway, how the FUCK do I get gud at shmups brehs?
I cant really say much other than practice more
Try to see where you die the most, then go to practice mode/savestate on emulator and get a consistent strat
>Ikaruga, and supposedly it's one of the most casual ones
Idek, didnt played this one
>What controller do you guys use for these games? I'm using an Xbone controller.
Keyboard
But thats more of personal preference