/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7054102
most of the ports were made in absolutely zero time at all to catch the doom craze of 1993-95. the ones that weren't had other issues in development. the saturn version, for example, was built to take advantage of both VDPs but the way the developers retooled the rendering pissed off john carmack and he made them start from scratch.

>>7054102
the 32x was one of the worst ports. Psx doom was decent with its nice colored sector lights. 64 doom didnt feel like doom.

Jag > 32x > Ps1 > Snes > 3do > Saturn

Stick to your fucking general. This board is shite enough as it is.

If you REALLY care about, the SNES version source code is open and available on the internet.

>>7054193
https://www.pcgamer.com/source-code-for-the-snes-version-of-doom-has-been-released/
https://github.com/RandalLinden/DOOM-FX

>>7054102
Doom required a powerful PC to play at decent speeds at anything close to fullscreen. Consoles were significantly weaker in terms of raw CPU power. The fact that Doom on 32X or Jaguar works as well as it does is impressive, especially given their rushed as hell development.

>>7054102
They did. The Playstation version is definitive, as stated by John Romero, the creator of Doom.

32x is just a bunch of co-processors stuck on the Sega Genesis's 1988 tech. You couldn't possibly get a better result on the platform, especially not with the small cart size they went with for some reason.

>>7054102
Sega saturn version runs pretty good doesnt it ?

>>7054102
Because console hardware wasn't powerful enough at the time.
Plus, FPS games will always be shit on consoles because of the inferior control scheme.
KB+M >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gamepad.

>>7054549
No, it runs worse than the 32x version (though it is full detail mode while the 32x is not). The Saturn port is the most embarrassing 90s port of the game. No one expected the SNES or 3DO to be able to play Doom, and the 32x outperforms what you'd expect it to. The Saturn, on the other hand, runs with a framerate in the mid teens. Supposedly, John Carmack forced the developers to use software rendering (Saturn has weak single processor performance).

>>7054556
Doom plays better on a Playstation controller than Mouse and Keyboard. And Mouse isn't even part of the intended control scheme for the game.

>>7054113
There is two dooms on ps1

Doom needed a 32-bit CPU and free-form bitmap graphics to work. Most consoles were designed for sprites-and-tiles games.

>>7054564
You are a double retard.

>>7054102
PCs were still hardware typically in excess of $2000. Not even NeoGeo had those kinds of specs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7cFGneuaw

Remember that with most consoles, the CPU doesn't do a whole lot except send commands to the GPU and/or APU. Update sprite pointers, check for collisions, enemy AI, etc. With a 3D game like Doom, there's a lot of floating point calculations needed and the 3Mhz 16-bit CPU in the SNES couldn't do it.

>>7054569
And it works both ways. A PC that could play Doom better than any console wouldn't be able to play Sonic CD at 60 fps (Though the Windows version caps at 30 anyway).
PCs were designed completely differently than consoles, and games like Doom that rely on lots of math from a powerful main CPU aren't going to run well on the SNES' 3 mhz + 20 mhz super FX chip.

>>7054587
>And it works both ways. A PC that could play Doom better than any console wouldn't be able to play Sonic CD at 60 fps (Though the Windows version caps at 30 anyway)

Sort of but also because it runs in Windows, it can't have 100% of the system resources/CPU to itself. There's naturally some latency there.

>>7054603
>because it runs in Windows, it can't have 100% of the system resources/CPU to itself

Tangent, but my mind was blown when I discovered Fallout was actually a DOS game a decade and a half after it was released. Due to the graphics, I had just assumed it was Windows 95 only, like Diablo. I could have been playing it directly from DOS and saving all those system resources on my minimum spec machine I had as a kid.

>>7054102
sup segalord x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7o_QMAUUi8

This is a simple game from 1983 written in Pascal, but none of the 8-bit systems from that time could have pulled it off.

I'm amazed they did pull off Elite on the NES.

>free form polys on a system with tile graphics, some pretty severe limitations on color placement, and a neutered 6502 with no BCD mode

>>7054147
Fuck off.

Also, friendly reminder that

TRUMP

LOST

THE

ELECTION

>>7054690
And stick to your containment board.

>>>/pol/

>>7054113
Well DOOM 64 was meant to be a new entry in the series

>>7054690
Nobody asked
now back to /vr/

>>7054693
And it sucked.

>>7054691
/pol/ is going to be a lot of fun over the next few days.

>>7054102
consoles had weaker processors to PCs

>>7054690
>Biden rigged the election
Ftfy, commie.

>>7054102
Funny enough rom hacks show that the 32X version could've fit all of Ultimate Doom's levels in their PC versions. With more time, they probably could've had multi-directional enemies, more map textures, and music that wasn't fucked. But everyone's habit of rushing to capitalize on popularity just screwed everything back then.

>>7054102
It was the Crysis of it's time.

>>7054696
Nah it was great

>>7054715

it wasn"t ported with the same orignal engine dumbass
its not id t

>>7054715
Speaking of, has there been a ROM hack that has better music integrated? I know there have been a handful of renditions that take the hardware into account such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FehpU0sjXrQ

>>7054102
I wonder what a doom port to neo geo would look like?
Could neo geo run the game properly?
If it could be ported to snes, i dont see why they couldn't have put it on the Neogeo considering how superior the neo geo graphics were.

>It's just... fucking... DOOM.
Are you implying that it would've been easy, or that having a good port would've been in demand? It was certainly in demand, which is why most attempts were rushed. Time would've helped, but there's only so much you can do in some cases.

>>7054102
>I mean it's just... fucking... DOOM.
Do you think they can just import the graphics and make a game out of that in a short amount of time?

>>7054106
John Carmack being a turboautist is why the Saturn port of Doom is essentially running in software and performs like complete dogshit as a result.

Doom 64 is fun if you play the PC port. Playing it on an actual N64 with its controller-for-retards is the worst way to actually play it. If you're burnt out on standard Doom and are looking for something new you could do a lot worse.

>>7054690
Shut the fuck up amerishart, your hellhole is still a hellhole. We should range ban you retards every election season. No one gives a fuck.

>>7054704
Go back there.

>>7054690
Holy shit, even if that were true yet and if it becomes true, are you fags just going to spew this for four fucking years now? You can't stop talking about him or injecting his name into totally unrelated discussion. Shut the fuck up finally, Jesus Christ.

>>7054713
>jews rigged the election
ftfy normie.

>>7054102
consoles draw their graphics in an entirely different way from PCs, which mean whoever did the port had to write their own rendering system as well as glue to connect that up to DOOM's internal rendering system

when you have console devs who spent the past 10+ years making 2d games and tell them to port a 3d game, you're obviously going to get varying degrees of shitty results

>>7054102
Fuck off back to your containment general, psycho.

>>7054690
>Americans had some banana republic "election"
>we're going to have to hear about it for 4 fucking years

goddamnit

>>7054113
>64 doom didnt feel like doom
What are you talking about? It was the last one that felt remotely like Doom.

>>7054102
Sega lord X just release a new video

>>7054147
>nooooo you can't talk about video games here I gotta spam my speccy maymay!

>>7054113
>the 32x was one of the worst ports.
Other than bad music and missing levels, it's actually really good. Better than the SNES, 3DO, and Saturn versions.

>>7054615
>>7055352
You know when you make these kind of complains against ecelebs, you outs yourselves as eceleb fans because that's the only way you would know about what OP was referencing?

32X doom isn't THAT bad.

>>7055756
it's like they spend all day going on youtube clicking on thumbnails with the same s*yfaces they post constantly, looking for something to get outraged about. get a better hobby you fucking losers

>>7054568
Yes and PS1 Final Doom is a fine companion piece to PS1 Doom, even though it's an odd mishmash of TNT, Plutonia, and Master Levels.

>>7055756
Nope, I did a youtube search of doom 32x and sorted by date and found his video was posted the same time as this thread. Don't be upset you got your shilling called out though, eceleb-kun.

>>7057086
>expending 5+ seconds of effort in order to get upset about a post on a chinese basketweaving forum
seriously, go outside

>>7054831
>Do you think they can just import the graphics and make a game out of that in a short amount of time?
How else would you do it?

>>7057247

>>7055445
This
The music is shyt but it's quite playable and has the soul of the game, albeit missing many maps. I enjoyed it more than the SNES version. People just see the avgn berate it and proceed to write it off.

>>7054819
Not good. Neo Geo is an extremely specialized machined designed to move and animate giant sprites. The main processor is weaker than that on the 32x or FX chip.
At least you could probably fit the whole game in one of those enormous cartridges, though.

>>7055056
ID assisted with 32x Doom. For what a 32x is, it is a great port, brought down by a small cart size and no FM Synth programming talent. 32x is just a couple co-processors stuck onto a Genesis (instead of the wiser route Nintendo took, of sticking them inside the carts), it isn't a real console.

>>7054102
Because 2.5D engines are built on CPU power.

Consoles, not even PS1/Saturn, have fast CPUs.

PS1/Saturn/N64 had one advantage at release over PC at the time: dedicated 3D hardware, which is why they were a small revolution. it took 1-2 years for PC to catch up with GPUs becoming a norm.

See: PS1 port of Duke Nukem 3D: it retains the 2.5D engine so it runs like shit. The Saturn version however recreated the game in a custom 3D engine, that version plays better, but it also less faithful.

>>7054548
>PR talk to get people to buy the same game again

You don't actually believe the person saying that really means it, right? right?!

>>7054102
>'just' Doom
I hate you, you fucking thumb sucking, ignorant zoomer fag-baby. Doom was hardly 'just' anything back then and the systems you are referring to had 2D limitations, let alone doing anything quarter-way competent in 3D. Fuck you.

>>7057813
Of course I'm being facetious. Playstation version is awesome, though, with graphical upgrades and mostly running around 30 fps (PC version is capped at 35, which many will forget since everyone plays it at 60+ now).

>>7054564
Based.

>>7054102
I think you underestimate the hardware gap between PC's and consoles. Unlike today, most PC shit required magic to run at all on a console for a long time. Doom 3 and Half Life 2 needed the next console gen to be ported properly, though Doom 3 on Xbox is better than BFG edition, but it didn't have to be that way.

>>7054102
>I mean it's just... fucking... DOOM.
Do you know there's a difference between the hardware capabilities of 30 year old consoles and modern PCs that make it hard to port over a game that requires a 486 to run on PCs of its time? Are you seriously underage?

>>7054693
I think he's referring to literally 64Doom - an unofficial port of the original Doom games. Not to be confused with Doom 64, which as you point out is a completely new game.

The Jaguar port was sweet if you had either no or a shitty PC. The 32X and 3DO ports were rushed to shit and could've been much better with a little TLC. The Saturn port was going to be very good but Carmack threw a bitch fit because he didn't like how it handled textures and forced them to redo it from scratch.

>>7057806
>instead of the wiser route Nintendo took, of sticking them inside the carts
Which made said carts significantly more expensive.

>>7054102
it's 2020 and I can play doom on a camera, a printer, a thermostat, and a goddamned refrigerator better than I can play it on a 5th gen console

>>7058083
How much does that thermostat cost?

>>7054102
A lot of machines didn't have what it took, while some ports weren't developed for all that long or necessarily the best of ways.

>>7054106
>>7054916
There has to be a lot more to Saturn Doom's development than Carmack making a shitty call, because if you go and dig into the files, it's a fucking weird mess, it's ridiculously unoptimized in ways besides rendering level geometry, for instance, how it handles audio, citing a great thread on Doomworld where people are picking the port apart to analyze it:
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/86671-dissecting-sega-saturn-doom/

>Here's what I've figured out so far about the sound effects of this version. I would like to say upfront that I don't have much prior knowledge as to how game system's sound chips normally work, so I have no clue as to how "normal" Saturn Doom's process might be. With that being said, the Saturn's sound processor is a Motorola 68EC000 capable of 32 different sound channels. For Saturn Doom, sound effects seem to "flood" these channels in a random pattern, with a sound effect being left in that channel after it has been used. Once all have been filled up, they are then written over with other SFX. For example, leaving the chainsaw running will fill up the sound channels with 31 instances of the same chainsaw idling effect.

>Through Yabause, I was able to extract whatever is in one of the Saturn's 32 sound channels and extract it to a WAV. These WAV files are in 2 channel stereo. When the game is set to mono, the sound effect plays equally out of both channels. But when set to stereo, the sound can either be isolated just to one channel leaving the other channel completely silent, or it can be "balanced". The sound comes out of both channels, but is played at different volumes to give a better sense of "direction". The stereo sound is broken in this version, and it is currently unknown as to how a sound effect is given it's sense of direction.

>>7054102
Rushed development, John Carmack gimping the Saturn version, cashing in on the Doom craze...

>>7054102
>I mean it's just... fucking... DOOM.
It was a state of the art game by 1993, and part of that was that it achieved its impressive graphics by being highly optimized for running on a PC, and still it required a pretty hefty machine for consistently good framerates in a full screen and in high detail mode.

>>7054113
>the 32x was one of the worst ports
It honestly plays fine, the controls are good, and the sound is crystal clear, it's just the music sucks and it lacks like 40% of the levels.
If I had to weigh it against the SNES port, they would almost come out even.

>64 doom didnt feel like doom
It's fairly Doom, but certainly different. I like it for being a weird 'gaiden' entry.

>>7054521
Because the Jaguar was actually reasonably powerful, IF you put in the effort to learn and understand the machine and what it could do, which actually wasn't trivial, as most devs couldn't tap its true potential (hence why most of its games look like typical 16-bit games of their time). John Carmack has the patience and brain power to work that out and did it as a challenge.

>>7058083
Then again, technology has grown more powerful over the years, even on an electronic pregnancy test is more powerful than an IBM PC in the 90s.

>>7054548
Thus the 32X version is actually pretty impressive. I always figured that if it had been devised as a 32X+CD title (which would probably make it unsellable, granted), you could actually have had the entire game running on the Genesis (and its addons), because quite a lot of what was cut from the port was due to cartridge space limitations.
Beyond that, it has a very good framerate and good controls. They could also solve the issue of fart music by having recorded tracks instead. That's just me having a What If Fantasy though.

As for 'definitive', that's absolutely the PC releases of The Ultimate Doom and Doom 2, and I guess Final Doom, if you don't mind how shitty of a port Doom 95 is. I'd actually argue that if you were to own just one console version of Doom, it would be Doom 64, because it's an all new game, and a pretty good one too.

The Playstation version is nice for the new audio, reverb, and colored lighting, but beyond that it offers just a couple of new levels, and truncates a lot of the old ones. The Final Doom release also doesn't really have Final Doom proper (and without the Archie, how could it?), instead replacing most of Plutonia with Master Levels (which IMO are kind of bad).

>>7058456
Which is some fucking ridiculous science-fiction bullshit, if you actually stop to think about it, but it's very real.

>>7054549
No, it actually runs incredibly poorly, and is infamous for that, it's basically on the level of the 3DO port.
The 32X port runs well, but it has its drawbacks.

>>7054556
With a good control scheme, you can actually play Doom very competently with twin analog sticks and enough buttons, a DS3 or DS4 is like right between Keyboard Only and Keyboard + Mouse in terms of control fidelity.
Mouse will always be better than an analog stick for looking and turning, but a lot of purists don't give the analog stick enough credit in that department.

Personally, I've evolved towards Gamepad + Mouse for FPS, which is the true patrician approach.

>>7054102
Doom was serious business

>>7054564
>gamepad is better for Doom
Wrong.

>Mouse isn't even part of the intended control scheme for the game.
Double wrong.

>>7055192
>using a Brutal Doom 64 picture
Please play the base game.

>>7054564
Bait

>>7055445
Missing levels? It's missing a full 1/3 of the game. And "beating" it boots you to a DOS prompt.

>>7054117
I'd put SNES over 32X. It's not great but it's nifty for being a comparatively competent port running on hardware that had no business even making the attempt. The 32X version is just plain bad in not even a fun curiosity kind of way.

>>7058830
This. You didn't need to buy a stupid peripheral to play Doom on SNES

>>7055162
It hit the bump limit. You know, that thing that no other thread on /vr/ will ever see?

>>7054521
From what I've seen even with a tricked out Amiga it runs like dog shit. John Carmack himself said it's too weak.

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.amiga.games/c/MZb9cC0FMhw?pli=1

>>7054102
Pleb

>>7055372
Oi

>>7058826
>If the player cheats while playing or uses the level select option, they will not see the real ending to the game and instead be presented with a DOS prompt (C:>) after completing level 15.
damn...... get exposed....

>>7058864
At the time, it wouldn't have what it took, however there was eventually some hardware component you could get which would enable you doing things like that for the Amiga, but it was right at the end of the system's/brand's life, and was very expensive at the time.

I believe there's somebody who's right now doing a Doom clone on the Amiga, with said hardware, and utilizing known tricks and methods which would help facilitate doing a game like it.

>>7054587
Sonic 3 and knuckles pc exist.

>>7058954
It wasn't released at the same time as the Genesis games; by the time it came out, processors were so fast they could brute force a game like Sonic. Sonic CD was released not long after the console version on Windows.

>>7054195
ok so how do we fix it

>>7054102
Does anyone have a review for this one?

>>7059061
What is there really to fix? The SNES port of Doom is basically the fucking limits of what you can do making the game run on said machine, it's kind of a miracle that Linden put that shit together and that it actually works, even though the end result is crude. It had working online multiplayer as well, which is even more amazing.

What do you want, higher resolution? Rotations? More levels? You'll need more horsepower and more cartridge space, you'll want a 5th gen machine or higher, alternatively the Jaguar.

>>7059097
>The SNES port of Doom is basically the fucking limits of what you can do
is that true though? i was under the impression the port was rushed and underbudgeted

>>7054715
The 32X itself was a rushed piece of shit.

>>7059136
It is running on the same chip that powers Star Fox 2. I'm not sure what exactly more you could expect from that.

>>7059136
The snes doom port is pretty damn amazing. As is the jag port

>>7059082
Its like doom but you move fast

>>7059136
I don't know where you got that from, a lot of the work was even done before Randy Linden surprised John Carmack with it and made the proposition that his company could make a port of Doom for the SNES (which Carmack presumed wasn't possible or not worth his own time, thus never entertained the idea).
Of all the console ports, it's up there among the ones with the most effort put into them (I don't really count Doom 64, because it's less a port and more an all new game), at least on the technical side, even if it's not particularly great to actually play.

There are other ports which are very underdeveloped, like the 3DO port, and in a way the Saturn port. The first GBA port is kinda bad, and uses the cut down content set from the 32X version (itself not too underdeveloped, all things considering), however the second GBA port was actually pretty decently put together, managing to retain most of Doom 2's content, if with some other sacrifices.

I heard that the beta Saturn port of doom actually ran at 60 fps, but Carmack said he didn't like some of the visuals(Which he later regretted making that comment) so they reworked from scratch and used PS1 Doom as a base.

>>7059254
If you've played Doom clones on the Saturn you know that's probably bullshit. But I believe that they could have got it running at least decently.

>>7057806
>32x is just a couple co-processors stuck onto a Genesis

not really, has additional hardware aside from that, especially the video processing system is completely different from the Genesis (and both were generally used simultaneously and the results overlapped)

>>7054113
>Psx doom was decent
Yeah, they just forgot the FUCKING MUSIC
WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING

>>7059327
Come on now, the intro/main menu theme was unforgettable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJB0gfP-GRY
And the ambient music it has is nice and spoopy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT8--F5EDpo

>>7059259
Duke, Quake, and Powerslave all ran pretty alright on the Saturn (Quake, which used 3D modeled enemies, would maintain a steady enough 20fps, which was what you could expect from a decent PC when it came out). If they had rebuilt Doom in the Slavedriver engine, it would probably have been a perfectly fine port, if maybe feeling slightly off here and there.

>>7059327
I don't care all that much for Aubrey Hodges' music either, I can see what he's going for, and in a few levels on the PSX or Doom 64, it's actually very fitting (such as The Void), but it's overall also very samey, with little variation. They should have gone for a varied mix, like the original games, where you have some higher tempo rock and metal sounding tracks, mixed with some melodic and slow paced atmospheric ones.
Or hell, just all slow paced atmospheric ones, as long as there's some melodies and themes to get you into it, you want the player to find himself humming the tunes when taking a piss or waiting for the buss, which you can't really do if your soundtrack is just vague distant moans and droning noises.

While I'm at it, I want to critique the new sounds too, while many are pretty good, some even better than the originals, some are pretty mediocre or even bad.

>>7059354
Those games run in the 20s, man. Considered acceptable at the time, but a far cry from the 60 that dev claimed.

i'll just say what everyone is thinking - even original doom isn't really fun so how can you expect anything from ports

>>7059354
>which was what you could expect from a decent PC when it came out
No

>>7058826
That's because it doesn't have the last episode. It was essentially released unfinished, but in terms of gameplay, visuals, and control, it's fine. Also, the DOS prompt doesn't appear if you start from the first level and don't use cheats.

>>7059082
unpolished homebrew, might have multiple different ports
played one version for a few minutes and had trouble figuring out the controls, lost interest when i accidentally enabled a cheat

>>7059136
You may be mixing it up with Wolf3d which was indeed a rushed and shoddy port.

>>7060582
Funny story to that:
>"You're good at porting games, can you port Wolfenstein 3D for us to the SNES? We had an agreement with Nintendo, but we're too busy developing Doom."
>"Sure bros."
>Some time later...
>"Uh, bros, I fucked up, I haven't got any work done!"
>"BILL! YOU FUCKER! WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS! Oh goddammit, Nintendo is gonna sue us for breach of contract, we've gotta do it ourselves!"
>Que 3 weeks of rushing out a cut down, crude, and censored version of Wolfenstein 3D as a contractual obligation, so they can get the fuck back to work.
Supposedly the SNES version of Wolf3D actually uses Binary Space Partitioning, to help it run, so maybe Wolfenstein was first to use it in a published videogame, before Doom did.

>>7054102
the PS1 version is great you retard

>>7060137
The recommend specs for Quake is a 75mhz Pentium though.

Who the hell had a P133 when Quake came out? Certainly not the average family man, not even the ones that cared about video games and computers. Shit was expensive.

>>7060783
For the record I still had a 486DX4, which is why Build games were great, everyone could play them, unlike Quake. That is one thing boomers tend to forget and zoomers have no clue about.

>>7060783
He's also playing in 300x200 which is a lower resolution than the Saturn. Not that the Saturn could run at that framerate even at that resolution.

>>7060783
75MHz is the second lowest end Pentium. Not at all what would be considered a "decent PC".

>>7060980
Original poster of that post, calling it decent was probably a mistake on my part.

>>7054102
They did and reinvented it. Doom 64

>>7060783
nah, your chronlogy's way off. Quake came out the day before Mario 64 (ie. the N64) did. The N64 has a 93.75 mhz processor as well as a powerful 60-something co-processor and it retailed at something like $250.

>>7061165
Doom 64 is an all new game, it barely counts. For good ports of the original game, the Playstation is alright, though pretty different from the original on many points.

Truly *accurate* console ports wouldn't come until quite recently. The new ports function and render authentically, and play just like they should, only you're using a gamepad (unless you're playing it on PC). There's minor room for improvement, but I'm actually surprised that they're as good as they are.

>>7054612
Win 95 and 98 were still MS-DOS based.

>>7058962
Then jazz jackrabbit existed and it looked better than any console game at the time and moved at smooth 60fps.

>>7063116
Delusional.

Article dated April 1996, couple of months before Quake's release.

Those prices are for the processors alone. Does not include the motherboard, ram, or whatever else. Also at the time the average customer didn't build his own PC, either, he bought the whole thing.

>>7063308
In short, a desktop computer with a P133 processor at the time of Quake's release must have been at least 600$.

The average working man who IS interested in computers would get a new one maybe every 2-4 years.

People who had a P133 to play Quake on at release were a minority, and assuming otherwise is either being someone from a very wealthy family who's delusional about how the rest of the world works or just not having been there and looking at internet facts thinking "this release dates means it was the case!".
In June 1996 at best I knew ONE lucky single kid with rich parents who had a P100; and my family wasn't poor either.

>>7063334
Thing is; Quake runs a LOT better on a Pentium 90 than it does on a Sega Saturn. Source: I had/have both.
As far as value/performance goes, Doom on Playstation was amazing. Ran nearly as good as the PC version while looking slightly better, new soundtrack, levels from Doom 2. Quake on Saturn is just a cool tech demo, but it plays horribly compared to commonly available PCs.

>>7063352
Yeah, the thing is, the Slavedriver engine was built with using sprites for weapons/pick-ups/enemies in mind. Add 3D models for most of those, up the polygon count for levels, and improve the dynamic lighting system (and they did), and framerate will easily drop in places.

They kinda bit more than they could chew there and didn't have a long dev time either for the port.

Still it's probably the best console port, and at the time of release, was a way to play Quake for many people who couldn't do it on PC.

Slavedriver is amazing, it's very close to Quake's engine in many ways, and people tend to forget it was mostly being developped at the same time. The fact that it was chosen to port Quake on Saturn even it meant recreating a lot of the game is a testimony of its greatness.

>>7058871
Wonder what that guy looks like now?

>>7054106>>7058434

saturn doom was rushed
a well optimized, non-rushed saturn doom should probably be at least as good as 32x doom, but with many more levels.

>>7054916
nah dude, doom how it would have ran natively on saturn VDP1 (without fancy, and slow, tesselation) would have looked pretty crap. Saturn doom was mostly rushed, and carmacks call would have been ok given enough time. Tbh, the hardware accelerated version could have looked alright if given more time (with some tesselation, like later PS1 games), but even hexen on saturn ran better with a software renderer.

>>7059097
>SNES Doom had online multiplayer
Wat

>>7065334
Yes. The SNES port of Doom had compatibility with the X-Band multiplayer modem, just like the Jaguar version did, and it actually worked.

>>7065334
Here's actual video footage of Doom on the SNES playing online with the X-Band Modem, recorded back when the service was still live in the 90s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P3JGxBNUyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jONkFljFrck

Being a first person 3D shooter game on console, with actual online multiplayer, makes this version *incredibly* ahead of its time. Mind, the X-Band had to function basically by taking the games apart and making hacks to run them, Nintendo didn't give them any help or support, they were on their own, just one or two game devs gave support for it at all, Weaponlord was one, and Linden's team probably gave some for Doom.

Might have been different on the other consoles which had X-Band, for instance I know the Genesis actually had some limited 'Link-Cable' functionality, at least for the game Zero Tolerance (which is another impressive 16-bit console FPS, quite ambitious), so perhaps it would have been easier to work out running an X-Band modem for that game, perhaps it was supported even.

>>7058851
It was awful though. I could not go from PC Doom to SNES doom for the life of me.

>>7063152
Can you believe the lengths you have to go to to believe this? It has to be a larp.

>>7067890
An interview with Randy Linden about the development of the SNES port: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5PknJvplKg

>>7059327
Aubrey Hodges's music is great though.

>>7054564
FAIL!

DOOM & Quake were the reasons that the keyboard and mouse was invented.

Retard.

>>7067947
It has its moments, but I think it's largely all too similar sounding. At least Trent Reznor's soundtrack to Quake has a bunch of variety, and occasionally a bit of melody.

>>7068889
>At least Trent Reznor's soundtrack to Quake has a bunch of variety, and occasionally a bit of melody.

What a joke.

Quake's soundtrack is Trent Reznor recording himself randomly pushing keyboard keys for some quick coke money. It's super low effort, and only half of the title screen song is worth anything.

btw Nine Inch Nails is one of my favourite bands. His Ghosts series would be what the Quake OST would have been like if some effort was put into it.

>>7068896
Ghosts is good, but just barely fits the atmosphere of the original levels.

>>7054113
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2fk4kMPYOM
You are wrong

>>7066314
>>7067890
Isn't that the modem doing most of the heavy lifting, or was SNES Doom done with the modem in mind?

>>7068984
The modem is mostly its own effort, but the game was also made with multiplayer support in mind, to paraphrase Randy Linden:
>You know those little symbols/emblems on the SNES game boxes denoting things like the Super FX chip or mouse support? I wanted as many of those as possible, so I coded in support for as many peripherals and stuff as I could.
The port was designed to be compatible with X-Band, it also had support for the SNES mouse and even the Superscope.

>>7067912
Jazz Jackrabbit literally looks like a PC Engine (8bit) platformer from 1990.

>>7068984
>Isn't that the modem doing most of the heavy lifting, or was SNES Doom done with the modem in mind?
It was done with the modem in mind. What he said is very misleading - there is no way you can just hack a SNES game or any game and add multiplayer to it, you have to put the code in the game before it's released.

>>7057060
Runs like ass and needed a 6 button joypad to change weapons. WTF.
>>7054102
>>7054113
I played the PSX version on original hardware. It was just ok. Still prefer to use mouse and keyboard anyway.

>>7069558
Yeah, you can, Mario Kart wasn't made with X-Band support in mind at all (it came out two years before X-Band existed), that's all just clever hacking on Catapult Software's part, they'd transmit data and use the game's local multiplayer features as a basis.
Here's video footage of Mario Kart being played online in 1997, something it was never designed to do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2p_LDSqbGQ

Famously, the Grand Theft Auto '3 series' of games all had hacks on PC for playing online multiplayer, there's nothing about it that's implausible.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130510105108/http://dashxdr.blogspot.com/2010/10/some-xband-recollections.html

>I started with at Catapult in 1995, I was there about 5 months before I left for WebTV. I was brought on to Catapult to do game hacks, which means you take a game for the Sega Genesis (my task was Super Street Fighter 2) and use the XBAND modem hardware to modify the game on the fly to support the XBAND network and features. People could play 2 player games with an opponent over the phone lines. Hacking a game means reverse engineering it to figure out where the code reads from the joypads, where the main loop is, how the menus operate, so one can know enough how to modify the game.

>The XBAND modem used technology pioneered by Game Genie type devices. It went between a genesis cartridge and the game console. When the console tries to read a word from memory, the XBAND modem could examine the adddress and substitute its own value in place of the one from the real cartridge. Game Genie used this method for game cheats, say the instruction that decrements the number of lives could be replaced by a NOP (no-op, meaning a do nothing instruction) so the player could enjoy infinite lives.

Doom was one of the few exceptions where they got technical support for it and where it was a planned feature.

>>7069676
Runs like ass? The framerate is very smooth and consistent, there's very little slowdown, also why the fuck would you want to play a first person shooter with just three buttons? Yeah, it sucks to play without a six button, but that part is your own fault.

There's legit things to criticize that version for heavily, but not its controls or performance.

>>7069792
>I hacked Super Street Fighter 2, and during the process of its development the hack got more and more refined. Some XBAND users commented about how cool it was to see a hack evolve, and features were added. They were sort of beta-testers. There was one "bug" in my hack that they found, players could hit the start button and go to the configuration menu and fix it so the other player was played by the computer, and from that point on the other player could only watch helplessly as he was defeated. We thought that was hilarious when we found out about it -- some XBAND players had complained, that's how we found out of the exploit. It was trivial to fix once we were aware of it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612072746/http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page.php?id=201&title=Interview:%20David%20Ashley

>Catapult had a piece of hardware, an ASIC, built into the XBAND modem that built on top of the Game Genie concept. The Genie could modify some small number of memory locations so rather than reading a value from the cartridge ROM, it would replace a 16-bit word with its own value. The Game Genie could give you infinite lives, or infinite ammo, whatever. This was done by modifying the instruction that either decremented lives or ammo, or did the check to see if your lives/ammo were zero. The XBAND ASIC was designed by Steve Roskowski. It could do everything the Game Genie could do, plus map in whole regions of RAM to arbitrary locations in memory. There were clever ways it could map memory in and out based on the action of interrupts or returning from interrupts.

>Given that capability hacking a game was a matter of figuring out what the game code did and figuring out how to modify it to do what was necessary. Catapult had no special tools for hacking. They had some game patches for other games, and typically you'd start a patch for a new game by using an existing patch for an old game. The patch was sort of a library, it had to communicate with the XBAND modem to send/receive data, and manage the XBAND ASIC to modify sections of the cartridge as necessary. What I brought to the table was a powerful debugger that I modified to work within the 32K flashrom of the XBAND modem itself. It used the LED's of the XBAND modem for communication to a PC's parallel port. Shannon Holland inserted my debugger into the XBAND rom image as I recall. So on power up my debugger would be having control. You could single step, put breakpoints, evaluate expressions, do searches, all the usual debug functions. I had written this debugger for the Amiga, and had used that for hacking Amiga games + software. With that it was trivial to hack any game on the Genesis.