/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7032558
Fuck off, Australia-kun.

Because Super Mario

>>7032565
Did I call it the Sega System you fucking faggot? No I didn't, I'm not the Australian abo, take your meds.

>>7032572
Nice try.

>>7032558
Uglier color palette, worse sound processor, Alex Kidd sucks, and not having start/select on the controller sucks too.

Golden Axe Warrior is pretty good though.

>>7032574
Surely you realize there is more than one fan of the Master System than some schizo in Australia? And the facts I posted are literally that, facts. It's all true and accurate, so what went wrong?

>>7032584
>facts

I see opinions in the OP

>>7032578
>Alex Kidd sucks
Low IQ and shit taste. The other shit you said is just hyperbole.

>>7032587
Those games are legendary: Fact
The Master System is more powerful: Fact
Arcade ports have better graphics and are more accurate to the original: Fact

>>7032558
The NES was out nearly a full year before the MS which allowed itself to hook customers with quality original titles and arcade ports. The MS wasn't impressive enough to get people to pay another $200 when it lacked immediately appealing original titles.
That would change next gen when they pushed Sonic hard

>>7032591
>Those games are legendary: Fact
Not with the crowds that matter dear anon

>>7032598
>Not with the crowds that matter dear anon

>>7032598
normalfags don't matter, corporate mascot.

Nintendo already secured a lock on the Japanese domestic market and their illegal monopoly tactics held off competition in North America until 1990. Also Tonka's marketing of the Master System in NA was so inept that Sega pulled the plug on them and took over themselves. In most regards though, it's better hardware than the NES.

>more colors
>much more freedom in how they can be placed on the screen
>color attribute system much more logical than how it works on the NES
>VDU can be accessed during active rendering
>built-in IRQ counter
>D-pad has eight directions
>more RAM
>can access 48k ROM without needing bank switching
>better CPU
>color internally generated as a RGB signal, not NTSC
>licensed games only use one banking scheme which makes everything a lot simpler

The shit sound and lack of hardware sprite rotation are strikes against it though.

>>7032604
Oh, is this thread not about why the Master System failed against the NES?

>>7032592
The Mark III came out in Japan in October 85, slightly more than two years after the Famicom.

>>7032605
>illegal monopoly tactics
Not illegal, just scummy

>>7032607
That's even worse

>>7032606
That's not why, Cringetendo tard

>>7032608
It was illegal though. The "you can't develop for other people's systems for 5 years" rule was voided when a US district judge ruled that Nintendo were in violation of anti-trust statutes.

>>7032613
You need to appeal to a wide audience to succeed anon.
Those titles are virtually unknown outside of insular gaming circles. Except maybe Golden Axe. But Warrior wasn't exactly the same experience as the arcade now was it?

>>7032617
Oh, is that right? Well then I got bad info

>>7032558
MS may have had better graphics, but its version of Double Dragon was horrible to play and much less fun to control than the NES version.

>>7032558
Worse library

>>7032621
>Phantasy Star
>virtually unknown
>thinks Golden Axe Warrior is more well known that fucking Phantasy Star
Retard confirmed

>>7032638
Outside insular gaming circles? Absolutley

>>7032632
It's actually Double Dragon and not some weird butchered port with deformed shirtless men in vests as player characters and no two player co-op(in fucking DOUBLE Dragon, lol)

>>7032558
Came too late, the NES already had the market by the balls when the SMS arrived and Nintendo imposed monopolic measures that resulted in a quite limited library for the Master System

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tymzoFRAqlY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o39KTDiMqdM

The Master System's sound is so bad. However it does have the intro sequence from the arcade which was left out of the NES because it just couldn't do it (the boss guy and chicks are char sprites which is very easy to do on the Master System).

>>7032639
Phantasy Star is virtually unknown outside insular gaming circles? You're fucking retarded, it sold millions of copies.

>>7032589
Rock paper scissor matches in the middle of a platform game sucks. That one room with all the spikes sucks, and the only cool Alex Kidd game is Shinobi World.

>>7032651
That's subjective, the sound is great and definitely adds to the overall feel of the kind of Master System magic of its ganes

>>7032659
Wow, you shit on an entire series for two miniscule nitpicks? Much be an Amerishart

As bad as Euro PCs.

>>7032661
miniscule is a funny word for a central game mechanic

>>7032661
Played your hand too soon into the thread, retard.

>>7032651
The NES Kiwi Kraze added a bunch of extra junk like shooting the whale's guts out from within that wasn't in the arcade. Compensation for the loss of the intro animation? Who knows.

Also Tim Follins did the music. (^:

>>7032659
>That one room with all the spikes sucks
that one is a pleb filter, you don't get hurt by the spikes unless you hold up

>>7032558
Nintendo had a monopoly and threatened retailers if they tried to stock games from other companies. They also forced Publishers to sign exclusivity contracts which meant they couldn't develop for the Master System. Plus Sega handed the US sales operation to a toy company who had zero experience in the video game market.

>>7032669
Its a miniscule nitpick, the minigame is not a detiment to the overall game.
>>7032671
Either contribute to the discussion or fuck off retard

anyway, that was eventually all found illegal and then in 1992 Nintendo also dropped the 5 games a year policy

It's all about software.

>>7032653
And other series sold far more. Mario, Zelda, Kirby. These are series recognized by every day people. Nintendo cast a wide net. They used underhanded tactics to secure their place. Sega was late to entry and couldn't provide competition and failed.

I mean, what are you even arguing?
The Master System already failed against the NES. Sega doesn't make systems anymore. The battle is long over. They had some success with the Genesis/Mega Drive, but totally fumbled their way out of the market. It's been over for nearly 20 years

>>7032683
And the Master System had it in spades, including killer apps like Phantasy Star and Alex Kidd

>>7032686
Alex Kidd was mediocre, Asterix and the Sonic games are much better scotformers

>>7032685
You've been implying it was an inferior machine with an inferior unknown library which isn't true

Zillion is actually a really good game. Probably one of the most underrated Willyvanias ever.

>>7032692
With a lesser known library. I have nothing personally against the games, but they didn't have as much wide appeal. If they did, they would have sold more. But they didn't in spite of the more impressive graphics the system was capable of. It's not rocket science

>>7032697
I think had they had the mainstream media penetration and consumer awareness through massive advertising like Nintendo then things would've been different. The games don't lack the appeal and are objectively superior in many cases to its NES counterparts - the problem was that consumers just didn't know about them.

>>7032704
Marketing is vital to appeal. It doesn't matter how good or bad your game is if your audience never sees it to make judgment

>>7032693
>Willyvanias
Willy Beamish-vanias?

>>7032617
>>7032625
It lasted for two years. This is the reason why the Master System was crippled.

>>7032584
If you're really not him, then bad news, he arrived to the thread already: >>7032693
And he'd loathe Zillion if it was on a Nintendo system, would call it weeb trash lmao.

Notice the developer on darn near all of these games is western or Sega. I'm not sure how Taito and Natsume were able to get out of their contract with Nintendo.

Double Dragon done by Arc
Ghouls'n Ghost Arc
Mercs Sega
Ninja Gaiden SIMS
R-Type Compile
Strider TierTex
Vigilante Arc
Ys Sega

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Master_System_games

>>7032815
did you know most zillion symbols are just mirrored numbers
just 4 and 8 change it

>>7032558
>better games
lol

>>7032917
I didn't realize it as a kid so I gave them alternate names. The code in your pic would be:
>man's legs
>fountain
>8
>currency

Marketing probably

>>7032558
>nes: boots are flesh colored, face looks stupid, entire body has less detailed shading, hands are oversized hams and feet are petite
>sega masterrace system: completely overhauled and improved character, looks like a person, the level has arcade correct colors, better palette, has soul, and comes alive off your screen. look at the variation and depth of the master system screen
kek what a self-pwn.

>>7033063
The Master System DD doesn't have 285 bugs either.

>>7032578
Golden Axe Warrior is just Go-Bots to Zelda’s Transformers. But yeah, if you’re gonna copy, copy from the best.

>>7033525
nah it's more G2 transformers and is probably the only game that successfully copies zeldas charm

>>7033525
>>7033729
This game got panned by the UK mags back in the day

>>7032558
Later release than NES in most regions.
In Japan, the SG-1000 came out the same time as the Famicom and was clearly less powerful. As a result Sega had to keep playing catch up while the FC kept gaining traction and sales. By the time Mark III came out and could easily boast being a more capable system, Nintendo dominated the console market.
Nintendo had their licensing program abroad and most developers (i.e. Capcom, Namco, Konami, etc) had built a rapport with Nintendo they couldn't easily let go.

>>7032558
the first controller design was batshit and it just straight up wasn't marketed well over here

>>7032890
Letting Sega reprogram the games themselves was apparently legit loophole around Nintendo's policies. And Ninja Gaiden was a completely different game than the NES or arcade game

>>7032558
it only had like 100 games in usa

>>7032558
The virgin NES Vs the chad Master System

>>7033525
>Golden Axe Warrior is just Go-Bots to Zelda’s Transformers
Golden Axe Warrior is like Mexican bootleg repainted Go-Bots in a package that says GOKU FORCE

>>7032660
nah. as someone who always has to defend the superior sound of the genesis compared to snes, it's clearly less musical and appealing to the ears compared to nes

>>7032685
how is creating mario, zelda, kirby, and more iconic games and characters in general, an underhanded tactic?

>>7033729
>G2
>successful
You know how I know you don't actually know Transformers?

>>7032605
>>licensed games only use one banking scheme which makes everything a lot simpler
Wait, so every game that was based off a preexisting property was programmed differently from those that weren't? Why?

>>7032640
That doesn't make it not shit, you know.

I'll give you that the NES DD has an amazing soundtrack, one of the best on the system, while the SMS DD sounds as painful as The New Zealand Story.

>>7033929
>Nintendo had their licensing program abroad and most developers (i.e. Capcom, Namco, Konami, etc) had built a rapport with Nintendo they couldn't easily let go.

Not Namco anyway. They got upset at Nintendo's greed and general egomania and broke with them to support the TG-16 and other systems.

>>7032676
such a weaksauce argument. Atari had literal first party NINTENDO games on there console and it didn't help one bit.

>>7034202
Atari had shitty ports of Nintendo arcade games made in six weeks without access to the original game assets.

>>7034152
>Wait, so every game that was based off a preexisting property was programmed differently from those that weren't? Why?

>>7034202
I mentioned 3 points and you argued poorly against 1. Sega didn't lose because it didn't have Nintendo games, lmao.

>>7032558
Marketing, that is, superior marketing done by Nintendo. I had never even heard of a Master System until around 1990 and I just happened to see an open model at a Toys R Us. Man that place was great.

>>7032605
The Master System has a "normal" architecture where you store all your graphics data in the main game ROM, unpack it, and copy it to video RAM which is slow, it doesn't have the NES's separated CHR ROM.

>>7032558
It didn't have Mario or Zelda. The end. Games are what mattered in that period of time. Now marketing does.

>>7034350
>It didn't have Mario
Alex the Kid > Mario
>or Zelda
Golden Axe Warrior > gay elf

>>7034385
awful cope

Nintendo had a monopoly by the tame the Master System arrived, and smashing a monopoly is no easy feat.
Exclusivity deals with Nintendo kept the Master System's library small.

So Sega rushed out the Mega Drive to beat Nintendo to the market by a year. This worked in Europe, but didn't sway American consumers who were so in love with Nintendo that they held out for a year waiting for the SNES.

>>7032890
Much respect for Sega porting all those games by themselves to enrich the console's library. Unlike nintendo, who prefers killing the systems that no one wanted to develop for (wiiu).

No library. The NES had a fuckhuge library, plus Mario.

>>7034404
Miracle world is better than smb 1 and 2

>>7034434
no

>>7034413
>but didn't sway American consumers who were so in love with Nintendo that they held out for a year waiting for the SNES.
Except it did, hence Sega's 52% market share by 1993.

>>7034195
Early on they most certainly did have a relationship with Nintendo. And they weren't mad at Nintendo's "greed". If anything Namco were getting greedy, as they believed their status as an early Famicom/NES supporter granted them special privileges like increased cart productions and licenses. Nintendo instead balked and continued to treat them like all 3rd party developers to not give them an advantage over everyone else.

>>7034413
Explain the PC Engine in Japan then.

>>7034554
>If anything Namco were getting greedy, as they believed their status as an early Famicom/NES supporter granted them special privileges like increased cart productions and
In fact Namco made all their own Famicom carts like most arcade manufacturers. What happened was Nintendo thought they weren't getting enough of a cut out of their license agreement with Namco and decided not to renew it. Pure greed on Nintendo's part is what it was.

>>7034557
Japs liked NEC's first-party games, similar to how Europeans and Australians liked Sega's games.

But in America Nintendo played dirty and Sega couldn't even get their products stocked in big stores until 1991. Read up on the story of how Sega only finally got the Mega Drive into Walmart by selling Sonic outside its headquarters.

>>7034676
>But in America Nintendo played dirty and Sega couldn't even get their products stocked in big stores until 1991
Bullshit, they already had shit on shelves like Toys R Us, Target, and Kmart, plus they were gaining a foothold thanks to deals with rental chains like Blockbuster. Walmart also wasn't as monolithic in 1991 like now.

Remember that Sega pushed hard in their ads about how the MD was new, cutting-edge hardware as opposed to the archaic early 80s tech NES.

Honestly up until the GC vs PS2 days, Nintendo consoles were kind of both a status symbol AND cheaper at the same time IIRC. It was true in the case of the NES vs SMS at least.

After a while it becomes kind of a self-feeding mechanism where you want to play the games all of your friends are playing, so why buy a Master System?

This is of course only if we're talking about America.

In my home jungle of Brazil, the Master System was actually king. Nintendo didn't get here until 1993, so SMS had like 80% of the market share, which wasn't huge, admittedly.

Unfortunately Sega released the Mega Drive here only a year later which made things quite complicated and kind of sabotaged their own performance.

SNES ended up doing pretty well, and then Playstation came along and killed both Nintendo and Sega over here.
I was one of the very few people I knew who actually had an N64.

>>7034129
successfully copies and being successful is not the same thing

>>7032716
No but Willy Beamish is fucking based, I had it on Sega CD as a kid. Insane load times but there were these little 3D balls you could twirl around while it loaded. The voice acting was worth it, funny ass game when you're like 11 or 12.

>>7034781
Could the average Huehuegutan afford Nintendo shit or was it way more expensive?

>>7035842
Nintendo was always WAY more expensive here than any given alternative. I think only the SNES really reached a significant number in the market share.

Most people don't know this, but versions of the Mega Drive are still produced to this day here. Not pirate consoles, either, official stuff.
Mostly the Sega Nomad version since the Mega Drive's appeal as a home console has vanished for obvious reasons.

The Mega Drive and the Master System also got games exclusive to Brazil, such as a port of Duke Nukem 3D, which was only published outside of Brazil in 2015 for some ungodly reason, and a Woody Woodpecker game which is still ours to keep.

>>7035976
>Most people don't know this, but versions of the Mega Drive are still produced to this day here. Not pirate consoles, either, official stuff.
Those """consoles""" are flaming garbage, though. When they aren't just low-quality AtGames products, they are low-quality AtGames products disguised as actual good products. TecToy's Nu-Mega Drives and Master Systems are a sad and unfunny joke that never ends.

>>7032558
> and the list goes on
Nah, it really doesn't go much further than that on the master system. Now the NES on the other hand...

>>7035996
Well, they're basically made for the poorest of the poorest. It's not surprising. I find the fact that a market still exists at all fascinating, though.
I was reading up on this stuff just now and was reminded of the fact that the PS1 was never officially released here, yet everyone had one.
The power of piracy and gambiarra is amazing.

Sega sucks anyways, it's like those retards who drink Pepsi and think is better than Coke

>>7032558
It's called the Sega System™. It says it right on the box.

>>7036041
>It's called the Sega System™.
lol called the Sega System™.

>>7036089
>system
lol system

>>7032558
Nintendo pressuring third party devs to make games only for their systems had a lot to do with it.

>>7032558
It's all about timing.

SMS was released long after the NES(considering the japanese launch).
During the meantime Nintendo dominated the market and got all the 3rd party support.

>>7032638
Most normalfags outside japan had no clue what phantasy star is you absolute bubbleboy retard

>>7032558
it came out too late and mario was a cultural icon in seconds. compare to europe where nintendo didn't have the same saturation and mario wasn't as known, hence the huge success in the pal region.

>>7032558
Golden Axe Warrior came out in 1991.
The Legend of Zelda came out in 1986.
Too slow.

I can't stand the SMS sound chip.

>>7036041
>FROM TONKA
What did they mean by this?

>>7032558
Nintendo locked third party support

>>7037417
Try Golvellius then, it's also better than Zelda and came out in '87.

>>7032558
3rd party support for NES was too strong
Master System did not support mapper chips, or any hardware that could enhance the native specs.

>>7033908
weird, i liked it

>>7037920
The perception I got from their reviews is they were just mad it wasn't Golden Axe 2

>>7037430
Tonka distributed Sega System games for a while in N.America.

>>7037891
>Master System did not support mapper chips, or any hardware that could enhance the native specs
Most of the NES mappers were designed to add hardware support for things such as an IRQ generator that the Master System could already do out of the box. All licensed Master System games had a mapper anyway to perform banking with, and there was just one instead of the 480 different NES mappers.

>>7037945
why?

>>7037464
Explain OP then. That game is 3rd party
>noooooooo but my narrative says that yamaucherino was a yakuzerino it cant be!

>Master System games larger than 48k in size make use of the Sega MMU. This was sometimes a separate IC, other times integrated into the ROM chip. It permits banking of the ROM in 16k sections ($0000-$3FFF, $4000-$7FFF, and $8000-$BFFF) and supports a total of 512k of ROM. Some cartridges have an 8k RAM chip as well, which was generally used for battery-backed saves.[59] Unlicensed Master System games in South Korea and elsewhere made use of clone MMUs.[60]

>Small (32k) Master System games were often released on the card format to reduce costs.[61]

>>7037945
So why did everything look and play like shit?

>>7037972
Because nintendo's fault. They threatened game devs, truly evil and draconian!

>>7037972
>So why did everything look and play like shit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSwJx15vq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrMk9RyCWKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtCqZ62FLHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjv2QinpozY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjmkk5H9PE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsRwd6ZmfwI

You tell me.

>>7037969
Double Dragon was ported in-house by Sega. Now what, nincompoop?

>>7037972
>So why did everything look and play like shit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF9PvqxBMJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSwJx15vq0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtCqZ62FLHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAe-Y579g0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjmkk5H9PE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsRwd6ZmfwI

You tell me.

>>7037996
I always assumed Technos developed it and Sega published the game. But I'm not really sure.

>>7038000
Arc System Works were contracted by Sega to port it.

>>7032558
it wasnt
you're wrong

>>7037996
>nooooo you can't contradict my narrative! Master system and pc engine never got third party games! Nintendo bad!

Technos probably didn't have any programmers that knew Master System coding. The rule about not putting out games for competing systems was a publisher, not a developer rule, so in theory they could have developed for other systems, just not published for them.

>>7038013
Imagine doubling down on being wrong because you hate everything that isn't Nintendo. Typical brainwashed Nintendo zombie. You should take a job at CNN.

>>7037997
those games all look like garbage lmao

>>7038020
He's linking NES games not Master System ones though.

>>7038020
>>7038023

>>7038019
I love video games, I just like to make anti-nintendo guys seethe with their nintendo obsession, guys like you are no different from actual nintendrones, except instead ofalgo unconditional love it's unconditional hate.
Blaming nintendo 100% for the SMS not being more popular is cute and I like to make fun of that.
Did I tell you yamauchi was an oni?

>>7037997
Bit rude to link a bunch of Micronics games, innit? Meanwhile...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8QCLNYFTrk

>>7038023
>>7038027
and? I am saying the NES games look like garbage
are you retarded or something?
>frogposter
oh you ARE

The Master System has the best home conversion of Gauntlet next to the C64 one imo.

>>7038029
>haha look how totally not rabidly pro-nintendo I am guys defending nintendo at every single opportunity like my life depended on it haha nope definitely not a nintendo fanboy haha

>>7038198
I'm honestly kind of anti-Nintendo of America, if anything, but I do like Nintendo, the japanese company.
Kind of the same with Sega, I love Sega of Japan, but I think their western counterparts are meh.
I do love making fun of people obsessed with Nintendo though, either if they're pro-nintendo or anti-nintendo. Something about Nintendo enchants people, whether it's positively or negatively, and it's fun to fuck with their heads.
>dude! Yamauchi was an evil yakuza!

>>7038212
NOA was mostly not at fault for the company's scummy policies, they were jsut carrying out orders from Osaka.

>>7038216
Why from Osaka?

if Nintendo didn't allow 3rd parties to release stuff on other systems, how come there's Konami games on MSX? Pretty sure Square and Enix also released stuff on MSX or PC-98.
Is there any actual proof about Nintendo's contracts in the 80s, or it's all just gossip type word-of-mouth stuff?

if anything their Gestapo-tier attitude to IP protection rubs a lot of people the wrong way

>filed lawsuit over the Game Genie
>court said sorry it's legal
>they still acted like a surly bellhop and refused to acknowledge this or accept the GG as a legitimate accessory
>over 20 years after Sony vs Bleem found emulation was legal, they still claim on their official legal FAQ that it isn't

>>7038226
It applied to competing consoles, not computers, silly.

>>7038230
What would change if Nintendo accepted the GG as a legitimate accessory?
As a kid I never even think the GG was "legal", I knew it was a cheating 3rd party device, and I was fine with that, didn't need daddy Nintendo or mommy Sega's approval to use it.

>>7038234
PC Engine has Konami games.
....maybe it's the fact Maerk III just wasn't a successful console in Japan, rather than Nintendo being zomgdraconian? Maybe it's a bit of both, though.

>>7038239
the point was even when their bullshit gets overturned by the courts, they still don't have the guts to acknowledge it or admit they were in error. that is truly sad and embarrassing.

>>7038240
...And all came after 1991, by that point Nintendo didn't have the gargantuan share of the market they once had and couldn't get away with their monopolic strategies

>>7038243
Eh, I don't know. Nintendo is not a single person. I still think it from a user perspective- what changes if Nintendo acknowledges GG as a legitimate accessory or not? I'd still use it if I wanted, don't need their permission.

Also they tried and failed to get game rentals banned in the US and Europe.

>>7038247
...hmmm, sounds like goalpost moving, but I just checked and there's definitely more third party stuff on PC Engine before 1991.

There's just people who are convinced that Nintendo is run by the Devil himself.
There's no point in arguing, if you hate Nintendo, then you will hate them forever, if you're a Nintendo fanboy, then you will love them forever.
Then you can be a normal person and just enjoy the games you like, independently of the publisher or system it's on.

do you honestly think though that it's justified to demand live streamers take down their live streams of Wind Waker or whatever because the dudes are talking too loud or say "fuck" during the stream and Nintendo thinks it will harm their brand image?

>>7038250
How the fuck is it a goalpost, naturally Nintendo stopped doing that at some point lol. Now you are going to be asking how did the Sega Genesis had third party stuff

>>7038260
I mean, at first it was "nintendo didn't allow anyone to use third parties!", then it is "no, it only counts for consoles, not PC", then it's "oh but it's after 1991, naturally". Sounds like goalpost moving. It's ok, you seem to have some sort of agenda going on. I personally don't care about if this company is draconian, or that company is evil, they're all for profit, none of them are for charity, I just care about objective facts. I know exclusivity contracts are a thing, even today, but it sure isn't exclusive to nintendo.

>>7037969
It was literally developed by a former SEGA engineer who happened to start Arc System Works, to develop games for SEGA systems.
So yeah, they wanted nothing with Nintendo

>>7038259
LOL I remember when streamers were fucked by nintendo. Honestly, playing games on camera isn't a job, for that alone I was with Nintendo on that one, just for the massive butthurt it got from stramers (and even more delicious, the butthurts from streamers fanboys)

>>7038273
>I personally don't care about if this company is draconian, or that company is evil, they're all for profit, none of them are for charity
If someone paid you to go and shoot a bunch of kindergarteners in the back of the head with a .357 Magnum, would you do it?

>>7038250
I checked too and the vast majority of PC Engine's early games were first-party. You have Masaya and Telenet Japan, who didn't make NES games anyway, and Namco who got blacklisted by Nintendo. That leaves only Taito as the third-party developing for the console at the same time they were pushing out NES games.

>>7038273
>I personally don't care about if this company is draconian, or that company is evil, they're all for profit, none of them are for charity
Reading this, it's kind of scary to think that video game brand loyalty fanatism is very similar to political fanatism. In the fashion of "YOUR favorite candidate is bad! Mine? sure it isn't good either, but yours is badder!" endless loop argument. I guess it's something deeply planted in the human collective consciousness, this need to "pick a side".

>>7038284
I don't know how is that in any way related but uh... no I wouldn't.
>>7038285
So there's Taito, one of the major Japanese developers, doing games for both PC Engine and Famicom at the same time.
It may just be 1 (and more 3rd parties joined PC Engine later), but there is one, therefore kind of discrediting the whole Nintendo third party conspiracy.
Maybe it's also the fact PC Engine was a new kid on the block and Famicom had been in like most of japanese households since 1985, so developers and publishers obviously went for the most safe bet, rather than Nintendo policing them on not going to make games for NEC. Which still would be wrong because NEC themselves did the PC-98 series and there was no problem with 3rd parties there.

>>7038302
>So there's Taito, one of the major Japanese developers, doing games for both PC Engine and Famicom at the same time.
>It may just be 1 (and more 3rd parties joined PC Engine later), but there is one, therefore kind of discrediting the whole Nintendo third party conspiracy.
I don't know the reason behind Taito being the only one, but surely the fact there is only 1 (as well as Namco obviously) who dared to incur Nintendo's wrath should be pretty revealing.

So wait, what the fuck is going on in this thread? I expected to see SMS vs NES shitposting and instead it's Nintendo vs Everyone shitposting?
What happened to the SMS discussion? Talk about games, fuckers.

>>7038302
>so developers and publishers obviously went for the most safe bet, rather than Nintendo policing them on not going to make games for NEC
But we already know definitively that Nintendo did because of what happened with Namco

>>7038279
>it's ok to shut down anything I personally don't like
I remember when I was 15.

>>7038273
>I personally don't care about if this company is draconian, or that company is evil, they're all for profit, none of them are for charity, I just care about objective facts

There's a point where you go past a normal need to make a living and feed yourself.

>>7038307
The harsh truth is that SMS wasn't popular in Japan, but was semi-popular in Europe (and I say semi because it was still not as dominating and many radical fanboys try to push, it was decently successful, but it co-existed with PCs, and it had the advantage of Nintendo releasing the NES in like the early 90s.
When you look back at the SMS's catalogue, it does have its share of great exclusives, a number of OK arcade ports, and then some unremarkable stuff. It's not a bad console, if you like Sega and you like video games, it's a nice system, but console war shitposting makes discussing it impossible, whether by petty Nintendo fanboys shitposting, or victim-complex Sega widows blaming Nintendo for literally everything, or whether it's just the /v/tard who falseflags and flings shit hoping it catches.

>>7038285
>and Namco who got blacklisted by Nintendo

Got into an argument over their licensing terms. Nintendo thought Namco were getting too much percentage of the profits from game sales and them not enough. So Namco broke with them, worked with Atari to troll Nintendo, and supported the PC Engine and other systems.

The FDS also suffered from Nintendo's gluttony. They demanded huge fees from developers to make FDS games and they would control all manufacture and supply of them unlike cartridges where developers could make their own.

>>7038378
>but was semi-popular in Europe (and I say semi because it was still not as dominating and many radical fanboys try to push, it was decently successful, but it
FWIW many of the Master System's best games are PAL region exclusives and were often also developed by PAL region devs.

>>7038398
First part is true, second isn't.

>>7038378
Yeah, this thread is nothing but "let's see Nintendo's history and determine how evil they were", instead of discussing actual game comparisons, or just games in general.
To me, Master System is still the least interesting of the main Sega consoles, but it still has some great games, their arcade ports are not really worth revisiting though, except some of them which can still be charming in their own way.
Making a NES vs Master System thread is bound to be disastrous because NES was one of the most massive consoles in history, there's no way someone will objectively prefer Master System. It's even more dispar than N64 vs PS1 because N64 at least had some advantages such as 4 multiplayer and some nice 3rd party support from the likes of Hudson and Konami, not to mention Treasure. SMS is kind of very alone outside of their own 1st party stuff, and its arcade ports aren't perfect (which works in favor of the Saturn, going back to the 5th gen comparison), so that leaves a very small pool of games to choose, but that doesn't mean the console is shit or that it's like the Phillips CD-i tier.
Everyone understands this, but people will keep posting about Nintendo because not many people are interested in actually discussing Master System in 2020.

>>7038408
>To me, Master System is still the least interesting of the main Sega consoles
nah that's the SG-1000

>>7038408
>there's no way someone will objectively prefer Master System.
Except that's wrong. The Master System has the best 8-bit shmup, the best 8-bit fighter and the best 8-bit JRPG, and the best 8-bit beat 'em up so it's going to come down to personal preference.

>>7038367
really. sure, everyone needs to make a buck but when you get to the point where you're so greedy and controlling that the entire industry drops you like a hot potato...

>>7038427
OK so... 4 games? That you arbitrarily consider "the best"? Even if they were the best, they're still 4 games, and there sure is a lot of great JRPGs on Famicom if you're into 8bit ones. I admire PS' first person crawling graphics and music, but I personally think DQ3 is the best 8-bit JRPG, sue me.

I don't hate the Master System but it got the short end of the stick for a variety of reasons and also the shitty sound is a turnoff. It's hard to enjoy a lot of the games when they sound this ear rape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o39KTDiMqdM

I'm sure I would have enjoyed owning one, but Nintendo had Mario, Zelda, and every other game that I was obsessed with as a kid. if I could only own one I'm sure glad that it was the Nintendo.

>>7038451
>OK so... 4 games
Yes we're talking about superlatives. There was only like 8 genres back then.

>but I personally think DQ3 is the best 8-bit JRPG, sue me.
Exactly, personal preference

>>7038464
Alright, I can respect that. The problem is when Master System fans (or falseflag posters, I dunno) try to start a war vs the NES. There's not much that could come out of that, just people talking about Nintendo.
Also, what are the best fighter and beat em up from 8bit according to you?

>>7032558
The NES Double Dragon wasn't even a port of the arcade, it was an adaptation.

Overall Nintendo had a grip on 3rd parties which forced Sega to make conversions in-house which crippled its potential. Some of their principle titles still made some poor development choices too. If you were to compare Alex Kidd to Super Mario, you could see Alex Kidd had a lot of interesting ideas moreso than Mario but Mario's advantage was that the gameplay felt fair to more players rather than testing their patience and sense of chance.

It's only with the grace of Brazil that it outlasted the NES, really.

>>7032603
Leftovers in Soccermonkey Country aren't a good audience, anon.

>>7032558
No games
games > console

>>7038476
This is the best 8-bit fighter. The best beat 'em up is probably the excellent Streets of Rage port.

If I had to program a game for either system though, I'd probably choose the Master System. It's just easier to work with and has fewer annoying limitations.

>>7037943
They made a quality truck, too.

>>7034338
The NES's CHR ROM setup has several advantages such as being immediately available on power on and making it extremely easy to page in different character sets on the fly. Since Master System games store the graphics compressed in the main game ROM, you have to unpack and copy them to video RAM and you can't switch in different graphics sets instantaneously. Also it can't rotate sprites so you need to waste additional memory storing sprite patterns for each direction an object is facing in.

The Master System does have 512 bg tiles instead of the NES's 256, but it's kind of negated by the fact that most of the time you won't have space to store that many as your precious 16k of VRAM is occupied by all those extra sprite patterns. Instead it can rotate bg tiles which is of somewhat less use than being able to rotate sprites. For that reason, many Master System games have symmetrical background graphics so they can recycle tiles by flipping them.

It can also double size sprites like you can do on the C64, but the sprite double size flag is global and affects all sprites (unlike C64 where each sprite gets its own flag for that).

well it is nice to have a controller with eight movement directions anyway

>>7037997
Because the Master System is a revision of a system (SG-1000) from 3 years later after it and the NES were released that put out worse graphics than those selective NES games in your links.

>>7032558
This documentary explains it:

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:EE52BF30B33481ABF648028EB854987CE7F85C6D&dn=Console%20Wars&tr=http://track.one:1234/announce&tr=udp://track.two:80

>>7038528
he's gonna punch him in the dick

>>7032651
Have you actually listened to a real master system? The sound is really good. Emulators suck however.

>>7035976
>Nintendo was always WAY more expensive here than any given alternative.
Licensed third-party NES consoles and carts weren't more expensive than Master System at all.

>>7036854
Actually wrong.

>>7032558
it just wasn't ENOUGH of an upgrade to keep up with the NES library. if it were 99% the same hardware but with an 8-bit palette instead of 6-bit and better sound, it wouldve done a lot better.

master system had a really shitty palette (RGB palettes are inefficient at low bit depths) which was honestly inferior to the NTSC-based palette the NES used which at least allowed light and dark shades of everything without boosting saturation.

SMS games still look better because sprites can be 15 colors instead of three, but the color palette ate into that advantage a lot. just compare SMS games to game gear (same hardware but with 12-bit color); game gear can honestly look better than genesis sometimes.

>>7040647
>master system had a really shitty palette (RGB palettes are inefficient at low bit depths)
Usually ends up with eye rape colors like this.

>>7040003
square waves are square waves dude, they can sound nice but it's really minimalistic. the SMS had inferior pitch range, no DPCM channel, and only two bits of pitch control for its white noise instead of four. the lack of low end really gets stale after a while and channel dropout makes it even worse.

if more games used the special noise mode to make a real bassline I would like SMS music a lot more, but that takes you down to three channels.

it's literally the same sound chip from the Colecovision, but with a slightly longer duty cycle that lowers the pitch by an octave

>>7040661
As was mentioned before, The New Zealand Story and Double Dragon both sound fucking awful compared to the god-level music in the NES versions.

>cannot rotate sprites in hardware
Come on, Sega.

>>7040657
it wasn't as bad as EGA, I'll give you that. and even EGA cheated by turning the dark yellow into brown, otherwise it would just have slightly-desaturated speccy colors.
a good palette for the time would've been 3-bit DACs for red green and blue plus a white highlight bit. you could make it fit into 8-bit color registers by doing RRGGGBBM, where the magenta bit gives you the last bit of red and blue as well as the white bit.

are australians on this board the new cancer? they are giving the euros a run for their money.

>>7040763
Mate it’s not Australians it’s one dude from Australia

>>7032578
The Japanese Master System has a great FM sound chip. When it comes to consoles, the Japanese versions always count more.

>>7041798
I actually forgot about the FM chip. I've heard a few FM tracks for the Dragon's Trap, you got any other good FM tunes you can share?

Doesn’t matter how powerful a system is unless it has quality software too. Sega didn’t.

>>7032558
>It had better Arcade ports than the NES' arcade ports.

"Wow, if I want better versions of these arcade ports I have on NES, I could get a sega master system
"....OR I COULD GO TO THE FUCKING ARCADE!"

>>7032558
Double Dragon is unplayable on the sms.

Better hardware doesn't matter when you've got no games

I await the contrarian retards who will reply to this trying to imply that the master system didn't have a tenth of the good games the nes had

>>7032558
Nice effort, bad bait.

>>7043326
SMS had fewer games because of Nintendo's mafiosa policies in Japan and USA

>>7045227
Or maybe because it wsn't popular in japan and publishers went for the more popular system.
PC.engine had third party games no problem.

>>7045908
>PC.engine had third party games no problem.
Except it didn't, which is very peculiar considering it was the best-selling machine in the late 80's

>>7046259
>check list of PC Engine games
>already had third party by the year 88
Why do you lie?
>n-noooo! but nintendo is evil!

>>7046536
>Namco
>The revocation of Namco's terms enraged Nakamura, who announced the company would abandon Nintendo hardware and begin production of games for competing systems such as the PC Engine.
Literally just proved my point. Why are you continuing to lie in this thread?

The best thing about the NES was that it prevented a lot of crappy Acclaim games from appearing on the SMS, unfortunately a few still made it through.

>>7032592
>>7032607
The SG-1000 came out the same day as thr Famicom but was technologically inferior and the Famicom had Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. so already it was getting higher sales and thus more support. By the time Sega put out their technologically superior Mark III, it was too late.

Is that about the gist of it?

>>7036041
>Sega s
based

>>7046571
Nope, wasn't Namco games either.
You're just desperate to blame everything and anything on nintender. Let them live rent free though.

>>7032558
hm yeah i'm thinkin SOUL SOULLESS

>>7046639
So nice it says can be played on the mega drive.

>>7046775
Name the third-party game released on the PC Engine that wasn't Namco

>>7046775
Name the third-party game released on the PC Engine in '88 that wasn't Namco

>>7032558
>Why did the Master System fail against the NES when it was both more technologically powerful and had better games?
Marketing and price.

>sprites can't be flipped in hardware, have to be redrawn
>VERY laggy scrolling
>annoying off-pitch sound chip

>>7047231
Not that anon but didn’t Face release games early on?

>>7032558
>when it was both more technologically powerful and had better games?
It isn't and it doesn't. It's one of the worst mainstream consoles with one of the worst libraries. The soundchip sucks, the palette is horrendous, the controller is shit, and it has one good game which is better on the PC Engine

>>7047412
I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration there anon

>>7032558
>Why did the Master System fail
the fact that sega didn't market the fm capabilities of the master system, i think it would have stood a chance then. As well as changing the design for, no reason.

From what I've played of the Master System, the good games are really good but they're few and far between compared to the NES. I like the console though, and it may be just because I'm looking at it retrospectively but all of the must-have games were on NES. I mean just from Nintendo alone we got 3 Super Mario games, 2 Zelda games, Metroid, Punch-Out!!, ports of their arcade games that were already well-recieved at the time like Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong. Then you have the third party titles. Capcom shat out six Mega Man titles as well as their legendary Disney collaboration games. Konami made a fake company just to publish more games on the NES, giving us not only games like Contra and Castlevania, but also Metal Gear (ass port but still well-known) and the TMNT games, which were good but TMNT also was a massively popular IP in general in the 80s and 90s which would bring more people in to play the games. I mean Final Fantasy started on the NES, it was just constant blockbusters from the top companies at the time.

Then there's just how they presented themselves, Master System had that standardized graph paper box art, which is charming, but not as eye catching as some of those really good NES boxes.

Not to mention just the general availability of games. Yeah, a lot of the NES was shovelware but they had 715 games total, with 677 releasing in North America. Contrast that with the Master System which had 312 games total with only 117 releasing in North America.
158 of those 312 games were PAL exclusive, they just focused on Europe rather than America and it cost them in the long run.