/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7003593
It hits me in the feels by how far the series has fallen into a steaming pile of shit. It was my favorite.

>>7003593

>>7003593
Outside of streamlining some things I think the first one is better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>7004553
Sarah D
Sarah as MSMK was fucking awesome.

>>7005051
she's outclassed by literally every other healer. kill yourself.

>>7003593
I enjoy the first one better fr some reason even though the 2nd one makes some objective improvements. I just like the charters better in the first; both how they play and their personalities.

>>7004553
Peter really should be in a tier of his own.
Everyone else is spot on though.

>>7005512
>>7005051
This argument happens in every SF thread on here. From what I remember, she is objectively a bad option.

>>7003593
I like the concept (SRPG mixed with JRPG), but not the game

>>7004641
>>7005517
when i was a kid, i remember feeling something about the characters being cooler in the first one. there was certain "wow" factor that some of the attack animations had that was just lacking in the second game.cool things like kiwi's promotion attack and fire blast were wasted on the fact that he fucking SUCKS after early game. also the second game had too many baby-faced characters.

however, in replaying them now that im older, i find that the first one is significantly more of a drag. theres so little to explore and find, unlike the second game with tons of items in barrels and vases and such. the items not passing down the line when you open a chest is tedium to the max. SO MANY battles are just 2-square slogs through forests/mountains for no fucking reason. the pace of weapon progression feels terrible. stat growth is stilted and awkward. exp not rolling over feels bad. they throw 3/4 healers at you right at the start for no reason. which feels like it slows the game down even more.

yes, the first one had the cool laser eye battle and the circus and the boat. but the second one also had the kraken battle, the chess battle, tons of memorable bosses. yes the first one had zylo and hanzou, and gerhalt and slade pale in comparison (visually), but the second one offered alternate promotions paths with the option of WHO to use it on and even a whole new mage class with the sorcerers (and those spells were awesome to watch).

the first one feels a little grittier, but in actual analysis after replaying it, i have to give it to the second one.

>>7005051
Yeah, Sarah in D is bait. She's great.

>>7005525
peter and slade are the best fighters. they have incredible stat growth and awesome 7 movement. peter has flying over him, and a slight lead in stats, but the difference isnt really that much. even then, they're still outclassed by people that can indefinitely gain 48/49 experience every turn (sheela/frayja/karna), and the only reason karna isnt up there with them is because i honestly feel like tyrin or eric are better choices at that stage of the game, and going back for her means a LOT of catching up to do. sarah is in the bottom because she's nothing special compared to them, is stuck with just the 10 exp from heal, and requires babying and catering to ALL GAME in order to stay on par with the rest of cast without falling behind.

>>7005657
>babying and catering
It's not that much at all, just make sure to heal a bit every battle. Once she gets to a certain point you don't even need to put in effort anymore. It's not like you have to repeat battles or anything. She's also the only healer you have for most of the game.

Slade was harder to level up and usually falls behind in my games unless I put effort into letting him pick off weakened enemies.

>>7005645
>>7005051
its not bait. she's outclassed by the other healers, and not really worth babying and catering to just to try and stay relevant with the rest of the cast. fuck you and your faggoty waifu bullshit. she's ugly on top of everything, and has an atrocious personality every time she's given a dialogue box.

>>7005668
picking off weakened enemies for a battle or two to catch up after joining is an issue that most characters in BOTH game face. for slade specifically, to ensure he doesnt fall behind you just have to give him the power ring once you get it. you dont even have extra characters by that point, so its worth it to keep him relevant, and the end result is a tremendous payoff with one of the best fighters in the game. minimal effort at the start, stays relevant pretty well with minimal effort, promotion explosion.

meanwhile sarah offers jack fucking shit. you can promote her to master monk and then what? she's just another fighter, like all the other ones you already have, and eventually hits the same roadblock of exp as the rest of them, except she can still cast heal for 10 exp. meanwhile sheela does all of that, and offers boost to the team, and gains FULL experience to fly through levels faster. meanwhile frayja and karna can cast aura and get FULL exp and fly through levels faster and put her damage to shame because she's left in the fucking dust. thats right, literally faggot pope-ass vicar frayja will attack and hit harder than sarah because he's so far ahead.

>>7005669
But she's not outclassed by Kiwi come on

>>7005705
kiwi is outclassed by magic. other than a low health pool, he's actually pretty good. its just really difficult to play around that fatal flaw, which is why he's so low. he would be much higher if he was just allowed to have normal health.

>>7005512
>>7005526
>>7005669
turboautist wanna tell me they rather went with ugly vicars than running 3 mastermonks in main party.
Next youll tell me promoted Kiwi isnt OP with flying ability and fire breath.

>>7005721
His fire breath is bugged and does less damage than it's supposed to.

>>7005721
i'll go with sheela and frayja, thank you. significantly more powerful and contribute more for the team than shit ass sarah.

also like >>7005727 said, the fire breath is bugged and can eventually do less damage than a regular attack. additionally, >>7005717 he gets utterly shit on by magic (and magic attacks like flame breath), which becomes quite common in the mid and late game. his health pool isnt large enough to survive the hits and he dies instantly from it. i agree he's awesome for everything else, but that flaw is just too fatal to really be worth keeping.

>>7005717
I was too hard on Kiwi, but what about Claude? I can't stand slow moving characters personally, he was always more or less useless when I tried him.

>>7004553

>>7004553
>Sarah
I think the game expects you to replace her but I never do. She at least dserves to be higher because she can be a monk and she has a large amount of MP.

>Taya
I like to use her but it's probably because probably one of the few magic casters. she is very fragile.
(I tend not to pick Tyrin and chaz appears so late).

>>7005775
I feel like Higins even being on the chart implies that any person has ever used him.

>>7005768
if i remember right, he's a decent fighter character, but didnt really stand out in any way other than defense (i think). his movement deficiency can be overcome with a ring/pepper, so its a simple fix. i generally prefer to buff up somebody else already good and make them godly with it, or offer that solution to zynk.

>>7005796
>i generally prefer to buff up somebody else already good and make them godly with i
Same, it feels like a waste giving it to Claude to make him somewhat decent.

>>7005780
i prefer picking tyrin and turning kazin into the sorc. freeze and bolt are more useful than blaze and kazin's other useless spells. you dont really need 2 sorcerers, and she comes in a little late in comparison (and you cant push for 40 pre-promo for more stats). i agree that chaz comes in too late, and he looks like a gay frenchman.

Never used her much, but Taya is pretty cool for her unique spells. I don't know if she's good, I just like the uniqueness.

>>7005775
you've clearly never even used half of these characters.

>>7005819
Scratch that, Kazin gets the same spells as a SORC wtf am I saying. Made him a WIZ usually.

>>7005819
she's less unique because you get an item that you can promote kazin/tyrin with to give them the same spells. the spells are awesome though. never thought i'd see a nuke stronger than freeze 4, and then there it is, atlas 2.

>>7005825
Tyrin too obviously
>>7005826
Yeah, they look cool too.

>>7005819
You can turn either Kazin or Tyrin into a sorcerer.

She has the worst defense in the game too.

>>7005812
when I play I've always picked Karna at the mansion. perhaps I should try Tyrin at some point for the sake of variety.

Tiers for this game really depend on how you're defining them. Are you taking into account maximum power, how useful they are in a normal playthrough, or when speedrunning? Should availability be taken into account, including the ability to level them up before promoting? Depending on how you're defining the tiers they can look pretty different.

Some like Peter are always going to be top though.

>>7005837
karna is a valid choice, great replacement for sarah, you can also keep her instead of putting frayja in later because she''ll have aura. eric is decent, because he has good stats and is a knight, but randolf is a terrible choice. even picking eric is a stretch because the game loads you with so many fighters already as it is.

in my opinion, the only real choice is between karna and tyrin. karna for the obvious and above mentioned reasons, tyrin because kazin should become sorc and freeze and bolt are great spells (and 2 mages on the team is pretty good).

>>7005845
fuck speedrunning. tier list is a combination of maximum power and how much effort it takes to get them there (which includes at what point in the game they enter). in general, being able to level up before promoting outclasses the others that you get without that option simply because you can pad on so much more stats. zynk and lemon are notable exceptions, and of course sheela/frayja because the exp limit/wall doesnt exist for them.

>>7005868
It takes almost zero effort to get Sarah to 40 before promoting and she's available for the entire game.

>>7005669
Gay

*ahem*
fuck that useless princess and fuck that ending. Sarah is the best girl

I usually like sticking with my starting characters in Shining games, Chester stays until the end even if he's outclassed. And I never use bird people. Are they better than I think?

>>7005868
Pretty much my thoughts on it, speedrunning should be a separate category for tiers.

>>7005876
oh yeah, nothing like the grand contribution of basic healing at the slow pace of 10exp. and while she's blowing all of her mana every fight just to muster 40 or 50 experience, other characters are getting full levels, so she falls behind. "but she gets blast!" oh, so you can trade the mana for 20-30 experience for 48 if you save a low monster for her? yeah, thats the definition of babying and catering to.

meanwhile, by the time you reach karna, its doubtful that sarah has managed to reach 20, so you can replace her without feeling an ounce of remorse, and karna contributes more to the TEAM by learning aura in addition to gaining exp faster. or wait even longer and get frayja later, in which the same thing happens: aura is more valuable than anything sarah offers, and frayja will out level and outscale sarah given the same amount of time.

theres no point in leveling up sarah unless you are absolutely MIN/MAXING to the extreme. she doesnt offer anything special by being a master monk other than that now she can equip a weapon and then she's just another generic fighter in your party, as if you didnt have enough of those already. then she just fights and kills things for exp because its more efficient than casting spells, until she hits the exp wall. then she's still only progressing at 10 exp a heal, while sheela, karna, and frayja are getting full 48s.

>>7005898
in the first game, i've heard that they can be amazing, but in my experience its SO FUCKING HARD to level them up because they hit for absolute beans. i find that its just not worth the effort. in the second game, luke is ok for the first few fights, but somehow he just doesnt keep up. when screech comes in, he can actually deal damage, but he never struck me as anything particularly special or "stand out".

>>7005914
>while she's blowing all of her mana every fight just to muster 40 or 50 experience
Sarah gains far more experience blowing all her mana. At level 4 she'll already be able to cast around 4 times, and her MP goes much higher from there. So it's really only the early battles where she won't gain full levels from wasting her MP. After that she just grows faster and faster. Only argument against it is not wanting to sit around wasting turns spending MP, which is understandable.

>>7005914
Karna is obviously better, but I'd rather replace somebody else besides Sarah.
>>7005921
Yeah. There's always some people who talk up the birds, but they're always disappointing in the end. I like them though and will probably try to use them more next time I play.

>>7005943
forcing her to be on par with everyone (lvl 8) by the time you go an investigate the rock cliffs after landing puts her at about 19mp. total, thats 60 exp. even distribution of experience for that battle alone is 80 each for the rest, JUST FOR KILLS, not even calculating experience for dealing damage. even forcing her up to an even level up to that point, she will still fall behind.

additionally, when is she casting these heals? is she casting on full health people just for the exp to force it? is she waiting for full value heals? careful, dont forget to use it all up before the end or she'll be even FURTHER behind! is she using it on things with trifles of damage, like 1-5? if the first or third option, whats the fucking point of even having a healer then?

you can literally do her job better by just bringing another fighter and everyone just carries their own healing seeds. hell, you could even have a shit character like luke just carry 4 healing seeds and put out more healing per battle than she would, and he'd have a flying move of 7.

Sarah Chads rise up!

>>7004553
imagine ranking Peter below any other character in the game

imagine putting fucking RICK above Bowie

imagine putting Sarah anywhere below A or B tier

>>7006320
they arent in any particular order within a tier. however, sheela and frayja are above others because they level up beyond the experience wall easily, so they accumulate greater stats than even peter. while sarah can go past the wall better than other fighters, the other healers are objectively better than her for the team, and gain experience at a faster rate. sarah really isnt that special compared to other fighters at comparable levels, and heal/blast arent anything really that special to bring to the table. she's shit and requires far too much effort for far too much mediocrity. killyourself, waifufag.

>>7004553
But who is the better archer waifu? Janet or May?

>>7005959
I like doing mandatory-character-only runs on SF1. Usually Amon is just a buffbot who stands around and uses the Power Ring on better characters. She got a few hilariously good levels on my recent play through, but by the end it still came down to Max, Mae, and Pelle doing everything while the party watches. Balbaroy couldn't get a decent level to save his life, so he mostly just cheered on his wife from the safety of the cuckshed.

>>7007139
May. There's no pussy like horse pussy.

>>7004553
Why is Rick so high?

>>7008064
the order within the tier doesnt matter, but he's up there because he's always provided top tier results in every playthrough i've done. i've never had an issue with him. the only drawback he has is that his defense is a little lacking.

>>7005512
>minmaxing in a single player jarpig
kys

>>7005638

>>7009028
That's a good post though

With a game like this, anyone invoking effectiveness in battle in arguments over character tiers is a fool. The game is easy if you use ANY halfway decent group. Objectively, the correct answer is to pick the characters you think are the cutest or who you find to be the most entertaining/least boring.

>>7009097
This is true. And Sarah is still top tier that way.

>>7009104

Objectively, the top tier is reserved for female centaurs. However I agree that Sarah is cute and deserves to be in second-from-top tier.

>>7009116
That's fair

>>7009116
>>7009123

>>7009160

>>7009162

>>7004553
>Posting the worst Master Monk Highest
>Posting Frayja high at all
>Peter not at the highest level

>>7009097
>>7009104
>>7009116
waifufags go home

>>7009386
>not reading any post at all
>being this blind
>not having killed yourself yet for being such a failure of a human being

>>7005721
Kiwi doesn't fly he has a unique hovering movement ability which isn't the same as true flyers like Peter & Luke, etc.

>>7009397
Who cares about your shitty posts. Your opnion on SF is SHIT!

>>7003593
Meh...Shining Force 1 is better

>>7006067
Which game(s) is this girl in? She's so pretty and enigmatic-looking that I almost want to jump straight to her game instead of starting with the first one.

>>7009428
Shut up and play SF1, coomer!

>>7009428
Shining Force II

>>7009435
>>7009437
>Shining Force II
It's all-good then, my friends. I can handle waiting through ONE (1) game for such a goddess. Who knows, maybe it will make reaching her that much sweeter?

>>7009446
Enjoy seeing her get cucked

>>7009452
Not cool...

>>7009478
you mad that your crybaby gets cucked?

>>7009097
Sarah sucks. She's a very plain healer. She's the definition of a sub-replacement level character.

>>7009446
>Skipping Shining in the Darkness

>>7009446
There's very little in the way of continuity between the two games. Nothing stopping you from starting with 2. Sarah joins up in the first few minutes if that's really your prime motivation.

>>7003593
all shinning force-world games are 10/10 on sega. one of reasons why i prefer sega over nintendo.
While nintendo had generic jrpgs, sega had unique ones with unique artstyle. I peronally really like cartoony portraits of Shinning Force.

>>7010138
based

>>7010138
I agree, but I can't say the same for Shining Force CD's art. The male and female characters look more cute than cartoony.

>>7003593
Haven't gotten to it yet, but I have little doubt as Shining Force 1 is an amazeballs game.

>>7006067
Reporting! It was really hot when I made her into a monk fighter on the first time.

>>7009394
We are already in home.

>>7009526
But then she gets a chad elf

>>7010138
This. I owned a snes but I still became a Sega fan because emulation. I enjoyed the Genesis games way more.

>>7010534
you know whats hotter? sheela. better portrait, and the fact that the mastermonk battle sprite is hers. you know what makes it even hotter? sheela actually contributes to the team!

>>7011423
For the last part of the game, sure. By which point Sarah is probably a higher level if you've been using her. Not to mention you could have leveled her up a bit before promoting, making her stronger than Sheela. And even if Sheela outclasses her a bit, you can use both because monks are good.

posting best character (all shining games)

>>7011459
every other healer outclasses sarah. even if sheela is slightly behind sarah (lol doubt it, sarah's exp rate is slow as fuck and falls behind easily), sheela's exp rate is greater, so she will catch up and surpass quickly AND she provides more for the team with boost. so even IF you catered to and babied sarah to make her on par for that stage of the game, sheela will surpass her, while providing more for the team, and being sexier with the OG model, better portrait, and better personality. sarah is dogshit and objectively outclassed by every other healer.

>>7011460
>imagine having taste THIS shitty.

>>7011460
Top tier taste friend.