/vr/ - Retro Games

>>7005561
FF8

>>7005561
Ninja Gaiden NES.

Laserdiscs

People like to blame Half-Life, but actually Marathon is at fault, because it did the story focus first.

>>7005561
MGS

>>7005575
It actually began the year before with MGS.

>>7005590
Marathon was more literature than movie though.

When games moved from flash storage to disc storage. Devs needed to fill up all the space with something, and music and FMVs take up a lot more space than game. Just look at some of those Sega CD games. Yeah they improved after but that set the stage for what games were going to feel like.

>>7005561
Uncharted

>>7005590
Do doomcucks really?

7th gen.

>>7005561
>>7005575
FF7 and Xenogears.

>>7005601
>Just look at some of those Sega CD games.
Those all flopped. FF7 and Xenogears made millions.

>>7005561
Gen 5 started that obviously but they just didni't abuse it is all.

Gen 6 was better graphics and easier gameplay than gen 5.

Gen 7 was in no real way better than gen 6.

Gen 8 they probably became movies with shit like Beyond Two souls *checks to see generation* Seven AND eight! They pushed it for too long. 7 is one faggy thing but when you go on to 8 you're just in faggot territory. It's why I generally stay in my little safeplace of gen 4, 5, and 6. 3 down is hard and kinda less fun obviously, but four five and six are fine.

Even the mods knew better than to let gen 7 out of the bag for a reason. No one that likes retro games could stand going beyond six much. To this day I've played only up to the sixth gen zelda games and even though I like metroid prime 1/2 I've left gen 7 prime alone due to gaggin at the wii-mote's shit. Dystopian shit.

>>7005561
Final Fantasy VII

>>7005609
>>7005613
This
>>7005583
Dumbass. Really where did that have an impact on cutscenes on any other NES/SNES game? And all skippable. MGS is that but an actual problem.

7005624
no

7005628
7005609
7005613
Strategy is gameplay. It wasn't movie tier just because it has SOME cute-scenes retards.

>>7005613
I'm aware of that, but again, those JPRGs were very cinematic and filled up their discs with high quality audio and FMVs, which is why many of them required multiple discs.

When your game was less than 1mb you couldn't fit any bullshit in it. Now games are like 100 gigs and stuffed with bullshit

>>7005632
>Strategy is gameplay
>FF
>Strategy
KEK

>>7005628
NG was celebrated for having cinematic cutscenes--even if it wasn't the first game to do so, it did them really well. It raised the bar. Skippable or not, it helped normalize their presence in games.

I have no idea how people bought this trash

>>7005649
Yes, I'm not debating that. It certainly didn't use cutscenes to provide a movie like railroaded game with no challenge, that's PS1 era JRPGS, MGS, etc.

>>7005561
2007 though arguable you could say it occured when CDs started taking off and you got longer cutscenes on consoles and such.

>>7005642
>mash a to win
No faggot. You've never had the patience to actually play the games. You choose strategically what to do in the actual rpg games (no play on words making shit like SOTN rpg, actual rpg).

Or do you not know what strategy means? Do I need to switch with a synonym to please your civilization loving autistic brain or something? Those games are shit, those sim thingies.

>>7005672
normally I'd say remove your trip you faggot, but I like it better this way because now I can just filter you. buh bye! don't bother replying, I can't see it

>>7005673
>I have no reply two times now!
>BYE

You lost retard, but it doesn't mean you have to like it. *places fedora*

>>7005672
Holy shit kys

*retort

Rather than reply. Logic devoid posters rub off on me and lowers my IQ temporarily.

>>7005683
>third post has no retort

Why reply for no reason? Use your words. Don't just grunt and slam parrot.exe over and over, bonobo.

>>7005672
>>7005679
>>7005690
>>7005632
>actual RPG
First of all, Final Fantasy is not an RPG. It is a turn based tactics game.
As a turn based tactics game, it is an extremely shallow one of it's genre, with no positioning or even any added complexity in it's tactics since it's first iteration.
I assume how drivel the "strategic" element of these games are is something you know, seeing how you are projecting WAAA YOU JUST TOO IMPATIENT TO PLAY IT!!!!!!!
I'm not even saying they are bad experiences overall, but trying to pass them off as having any strategic depth is nonsense.

>>7005561
Xenogears.

>>7005746
Specifically, disc 2 of Xenogears, which was basically a movie punctuated by short bursts of gameplay.

>>7005561
Cinematic games were just bloated with text before it became easier to insert hours of cutscenes. The problem has been around for a long time, just how it manifests has changed a bit. The root of it is relying too heavily on previous ways to tell stories and not knowing how to express as much during the actual gameplay.

>>7005561
4th gen jarpigs are full of long cutscenes. When all you can do is push a button to advance the text, that's a cutscene.

>>7005654
>His last numbered Metal Gear Solid game, Guns of the Patriots, holds two Guinness records, one for the longest cutscene in a game (27 minutes), another for the longest cutscene sequence (71 minutes). A fan-edited compendium of the latter’s combined non-interactive sequences clocks in at upwards of nine hours.

>>7005589
you mean the pioneer laseractive?

>>7005654
i thought it was fun....

>>7005561
Dragon's Lair. Some developers have been trying to make interactive movies since the medium was brand new.

>>7005829
If I wanted to watch a movie I wouldn't try to play it

>>7005609
FF6 contains four and a half hours of cutscenes.

Ignoring RPG's, though, the answer is probably MGS.

>>7005590
no it's metal gear solid

>>7005590
>People like to blame Half-Life
There's no cutscenes in half-life though

>>7005561
They didn't. Movies moved in to try and be games instead. The movie industry looked at video games and saw a multi-billion dollar industry.

pacman

>>7005672
Use your biggest attack until one of the bad guy's attacks leaves you one turn away from KO, then cast heal and go back to attacking. Amazing deep strategy you've got there.

>>7005561
that's why i tell every graphics and muh 60fps hd shit fags to die

they are to blame the industry is like this

>>7005654
Kojarble really doesn't know how to balance gameplay and cutscenes. He tried to overcompensate too hard in the other direction with MGS5 and the ludo gameplay went to waste.

>>7005707
Strategy and tactics are basically the same thing whether you like it or not. In the context of gaming in any case.

>>7005561
7th gen, objectively.

>>7006056
And mario and such is "just run forward and jump to avoid getting hit by things".

There's no need to be a faggot about things like this when shit like Beyond Two Souls are what are bad games and not shit like Sqaure games nor Enix or etc .

>>7005616
I just play games regardless of generation, if it's good I'll play it, you're being really autistic and weird about it

>>7006185
>And mario and such is "just run forward and jump to avoid getting hit by things".
Yes, the tactics in mario are very simple. If someone called mario a tactical game, everyone would laugh at them. But the thing is, the tactics in mario and the tactics in final fantasy are about equally complex.

>>7005707
>OH I AM MASTER ARBITER OF PURE RPG!
No. Fuck off. You want original ACTUALLLYY!!! RPGs only, go play DnD >>>/tg/ forever and never come back.

>>7005871
>FF6 contains four and a half hours of cutscenes.
Those weren't FMVs. They used ingame game engine which isn't movie quality in any sense of the "movie" word. Retard defintions fags.

>>7006072
>graphics and muh 60fps hd shit fags to die
Those are mostly FPS games.Including DOOM /our/guys. They don't care about FMVs.

Myst probably should be mentioned here for the sake of completion.

>>7005561
early to mid 90s, sega cd had tons of these FMV games and then sony came in and advertised their games using only cutscenes so that they looked better than what they were

>>7005596
This is the correct answer. Kojima has always been a hack

Kojima the fucking slanty eyed prick.

>>7006238
Also Pyst for full completion

>>7006072
>muh 60fps
Idk what you're smoking to think 60fps gameplay is a bad thing, cutscenes aside

>>7005790
At least in texts you could read/skip them quickly and keep the pacing smoother than having to help Kratos carry a pig for 2 minutes while babbling shit to his son

>>7005891
>There's no cutscenes in half-life though
lol There's no cutscenes in half-life

>>7005642
FFV definitely had strategy. If you play the gba with extra content, there are bosses that are pure strategy or you're finished, even with grinding

7006217
no @

When people actually starting making high-budget moviegames with no meaningful gameplay whatsoever. I suppose you could kind of count FMV adventure style games as that but I'm talking specifically things like Quantic Dream games or boiler plate third person shooters that are more concerned with being narrative driven than having any good gameplay.

There's nothing wrong with movie games honestly but it's pretentious as fuck to say that it's the end goal of videogames as an art form, to try and resemble a movie as much as possible.

It started to get preeetty gay on PS1. Things went full tilt with MGS2.

>>7006405
Even worse when it's a 2 hours long indie game with no replayability whatsoever, for 20$
You could just buy a TV series instead

Movie "games" /vr/ won't admit are movie games:
Shenmue
Mizzurna Falls

>>7005561
Found it hehe

>>7005561
Tactics Ogre.

>>7006419
>buy a tv series
lmaowtf does this goober actually do that when it's been so easy to torrent since nearly two decades ago?

>>7006464
you can say the same thing about pirating the game anon

>>7006468
I've been g#ming much less since they've become so transparent about being achievement porn and I've been busy, so I've spent exactly $5 on video g$mes this year.

PS1

>>7005561
1983

>>7006389
FF5 is literally the most piss easy game in the entire series, 5tard

>>7005597
>>7005575
Hey zoomies, it was fucking FF7.

>>7006426
Shenmue fucking blows

>>7006481
There's unironically more gameplay in Dragon's Lair than Gone Home

>>7006519
That's nice.

>>7005561
when the n64 came out and every game on it had a cinematic 20fps framerate.

>>7005654
I bought a PS3 just for this. I was so pissed after

>>7006334
where the fuck did i say 60fps is a bad thing?? i know your comprehension is weak, but here it goes:
pay more attention. i'm obivously talking about the retard kids that put value and complain about fps so much that the industry feeds them that shit: graphics

>>7005654
>>7006156
>>7006665

Fun fact: even though this game is in black and white, most people at the time had color televisions.

>>7006554
Search your heart, anon. You know it’s true.

>>7005561
So what I'm getting out of this thread is that the PS1 is the turning point in where games started to become movies.

>>7005561
Here's the real answer.

Damn OP, you got me good.

>>7005748
>disc 2 of Xenogears
Thank you for reminding me of that disappointment.

>>7006703
That's fair. The move to CDs was the largest leap in terms of media capacity.

>>7005602
This wasn't the only culprit but the ps3 and Sony exclusives in particular with their sub-par gameplay, but EXCELLENT animation and story. The peak is metal gear solid 4 Holy shit.

>>7006228
>Those weren't FMVs. They used ingame game engine

So did MGS.

>>7005561
Snoy Plebstatiom. Like metal
gear and crap.

Cinemaware was the first company to explicitly try making video games that were like movies

>>7005616
No one knows what all those "gens" are. You think i look that shit up on wikipedia pic every time you post this made up bullshit? Go fuck your gens. Smelly mongoloid.

>>7006691
kek

>>7005673
This faggot keeps changing his trip. At first he was like hurr just filter me, but now he’s gone full ban evasion.

Oh well, time to “police” more of his posts.

>>7005590
>People like to blame Half-Life
Was there a single cutscene in Half-Life ?

>>7005561
>>7007258
>See game I might want on Steam
>Click
>Store page
>First trailer
>All 3D cutscenes mashed together with horrible loud "orchestral" music
>Second trailer
>3D cutscenes showing the game's waifus or whatever it is you call naked chicks being slutty
>Third trailer
>3D cutscenes showing dialogue
>Rest are pictures of 3D cutscenes
>There is ZERO actual gameplay footage
>Close store page
>Don't buy the game out of anger
Just my day to day life.

the review that killed gaming

>>7007682
I'd love to crack open a cold one with a baron of hell desu.

>>7007476
>horrible loud "orchestral" music
- 4-chords
- EPIC HORNS
- All the percussion all the time
- 1000 man chorus singing in a fantasy language (random syllables) homophonically

Imagine sinking this low as a composer.

>>7007476
>waifus or whatever it is you call naked chicks being slutty
Anon who are you trying to fool here?

Japanese video games have had strong narrative aspects since the 8 bit era...maybe sooner? And only once pre-rendered 3D cutscenes became possible, it becomes palatable for the western audience. Lots of people like to point squarely at Kojima for this, but despite the hours of cutscenes and talking heads in his output prior to MGSV, but I think Metal Gear succeeds in using games as a medium to create a narrative that would not be possible--or at least, worse off--outside of a video game. Beyond that, I would say that the Metal Gear games have considerable gameplay depth. Compare Metal Gear Solid 2, for example, to any contemporary triple A release that could be considered a movie game.

Take the hallmark example: The Last of Us, which is an objectively thinner game than anything Naughty Dog had pursued previously, including Crash Bandicoot. In terms of mechanics and gameplay variety, TLOU doesn't even have as much going on as the Uncharted games that preceded it.

What has happened with moooovie games that's notable in the last decade is basically the walk-and-talk sequence, which is an incredible proposition really. "What if long cutscenes were entirely unskippable...BUT you also had to push the left analog stick forward for the entire thing?" Like wow great. what a great game.

I think games can tell interesting stories in interesting ways. I think video games are a unique venue for narratives, but you have to play by the rules of the medium, and the baseline rule is that said game must be compelling! And most damning is that contemporary video games don't even really ape films, a lot of the time. What they're emulating instead is prestige television...but in the most low-brow fashion.

My pet theory is that I think adult game hobbyists, and ESPECIALLY people involved in the games industry, want nothing more than games to be treated as a serious, mature format. and the shining example is some fucking emotionally shallow zombie b-movie? give me a fucking break.

>>7005629
>>7005632
take the trip off nobody cares about you

>>7005613
If that's your argument then Dragon's Lair was the best-selling arcade game of 1983

>>7007974
It's a problem that's become pervasive as the major players in the games industry consolidate and consolidate and consolidate, becoming more bloated in the process. There are practically two types of video games that come out now, at least outside of the Nintendosphere, and that's gigantic multiplayer games that are butt-fucked with microtransactions and grinding progressions, and games that are tanked and diseased from the start because they're designing a ten-year progression before the game ever hits an alpha. and the other side of that coin is the God of Wars or TLOUs or Gears games that are these very linear, staid, and dry affairs that have any kind of interesting gameplay hiding under the veneer of a huge budget for narrative. the GoW reboot was actually a pretty neat concept, trying to fit a character action game into that over-the-shoulder third person action formula. I think in a lot of ways it was successful. But it tries to balance the gameplay with narrative segments at a ratio that feels like 1:1, which seems sub-optimal for a fucking video game.

A decade ago I thought indie developers would save the day but unfortunately it's just as hard for them to survive as it is for the big boys to stay afloat, which is why we're still seeing an entire universe of games in the language or formulas of...Hotline Miami, Super Meat Boy, Spelunky, Luftrausers, Nuclear Throne, Binding of Isaac--games that all came out a half-decade ago or more. Do you really want to play another fucking Metroidvania? How about another game described as "2D souls"? Can you stomach another fucking rogue like, or rogue lite? how about a procedurally generated bullet hell retro throwback? like fuck off. it's so disappointing to see that well get poisoned so early.

of course this is to say nothing about the rise of games that are visual novels, but I don't think those matter. I file that under "media expressly created for people who write about media for pay".

>>7007682
they are right though, fps shooters get old quick

>>7007682
EDGE have always been pretentious wankers with terrible taste. They should have been film critics.

>>7008000
in the end I think a lot of this garbage is a side-effect of an industry that's very precarious right now, but I don't think it will heal and return to being good again. At least, not in the terms we are hoping for. Games as a service, mobile games, and games streaming are the future, and they will all coalesce as one entity. There won't be something to replace facebook. video games will become the new social networks for a lot of people, and they already have. We are never going back. The good news, I suppose, is that there's a near-endless amount of retro games to go back to and explore!

>>7006249
>Quarter screen 32 color slideshow

>>7007682
What did they think of Strife?

>>7008000
Just ignore anything with a "metroidvania" or "roguelite" tag (though there's a handful of decent games in the genre) and there's good games out there. Valfaris and the Curse of the Moon Games, as an example, are some of the most fun platformers I've played ever.
Fact is, "Triple A" game industry is garbage and always has been. That sort of shit did not exist in the 90s.

>>7005748
it would be pretty cool if movies came with optional little games during or after the movie

>>7006519
Dragon's Lair is unfairly blamed, it's a not a story game where you sit and do nothing

>>7005590
It was def. Doom2

>>7006703
People here can't tell the difference between "the first movie game" and "the point every game started to become one"
Most PS1/PS2 games had half-assed stories that was consisted merely 10% of the whole thing, sometimes less.

>>7008098
I think that's untrue. There has always been a top tier, at least in terms of available resources, of video game developers. But that space has shrunk in such a miserable way over the last fifteen years that they've grown to the point of being immobile heaps. It almost mirrors what has happened to socio-economic classes in the United States. There used to be a broad, although separable, spectrum of developers and publishers. And now the landscape is completely barren. A handful of supermassive studios creating supermassive games and nothing else, and then the indie scene.

Now, don't get me wrong about independent games. Tasked with coming up with a list of the games I enjoyed the most from this generation, I can think of only three or four major video games that would make the cut, and the rest would be indie games. But even though there are superstars of the indie world, none of them have risen to fill the void left by the consolidation of developers since the start of the 7th generation. People like to decry the death of the B-game, but it wasn't just B-games we lost. Nor was it just the weirdo jap imports like Mister Mosquito that we don't see anymore. There are practically two categories in video games right now, and one is for independent games and the other is for full-priced games that must sell two million copies or perish. There's absolutely no middle ground anymore.

>>7008231
>People here can't tell the difference between "the first movie game" and "the point every game started to become one"
There's only one idiot that said Ninja Gaiden, most of the thread is correct about CD gaming and the PSX in particular.

>>7008257
"Triple A" gaming doesn't just mean big budget, which yes, there have been games with huge budgets going way back. It means everything that comes with a massive video game industry and its practices.

>>7008257
I'm sure that a lot of what is known as indie nowadays would have been that middle ground 15 years ago. It's just too easy to publish your own games now.

>>7007682
>Doomniggers still butthurt over the fact their game ruined PC gaming

>>7005561

>>7005561
FMV games, if you wanna get technical about it. But kiddies on /vr/ would much rather complain about AAA titles
in the name of looking like that uber-cool contrarian they like on YouTube than actually putting thought into an opinion.
Now, if you'll excuse me:
HURRR IT WAS OCARINA OF TIME BECAUSE ALL OF THE COOTSCENES ARE UNSKIPPABLE AND URRR THE TEXT BOXES SLOW AND ANIMATION GARBO NOT LIKE BEST ZELDA "WAND OF GAMELON"

>>7008351
They would have. "Indie" is something of a buzzword at this point and describes anything not shit out by a Triple A studio like Activision or EA.

>>7008000
I like the post overall but they're Spectacle Fighters, "Character Action Games" is the fucking worst name I've ever heard

>>7007682
>make friends with and form alliances with demons who can't even resist the temptation to TK each other
how fucking retarded

>>7005561
The problem in your image is fixed by playing good games.

>>7006228
>Those weren't FMVs. They used ingame game engine which isn't movie quality in any sense of the "movie" word. Retard defintions fags.
It's the same shit. You have to stop playing the interactive part of the game and watch the game play itself for a while. Same with the "half life has no cutscenes" claim. You can't move foward until the NPC is done talking, it doesn't make a difference if it's in-engine or if you can still jump around while it happens.

>>7008637
ADHD

>>7007682
Doom ruined gaming.
Ultima Underworld should have been the standard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEUtXH1cvkg
Click in a random segment and see if it's gameplay

/v/eddit thread

>>7008685
LMao three clicks all cutscenes

>>7008882
Honestly it took me many tries to get gameplay.

>>7005561
PS1. FF7 and MGS1 are the game that kickstart this trend.