/vr/ - Retro Games

The generational discussion video is great too.

>>6993129
Damn right it is. DG and Ahoy are probably the best of the best in terms of historical YT stuff.

Cool stuff, OP

>>6993123
"dithering" is gay incel cope for having inferrier cable's

>>6993123
That composite image looks way too clean.

>eceleb faggotry

>>6993249

The RGB version looks much better. I don't know how you could argue that it isn't.

>>6993265
Whenever I used composite cables I got a noticeable dot crawl effect, specifically around the score text. This pic is an extreme example. Turning down the sharpness helps but doesn't fix it completely.

>>6993289
What are you playing? It seems different sorts of issues happen when splitting the Luma and Chroma information in composite. This looks like extraneous Chroma info in the Luma portion of the data stream

>>6993279
I should have just double quoted for this, but the RGB version was not the intent of the effect made by the developers. Sega meant for you to play on composite, there's just no getting around that. It's similar to how SNES developers were making their textures intentionally wrong so that they came out correct when overstretched on a 4:3 display.

>>6993416
It's how I remember playing Sonic on my Genesis. I took the component pill because of it and I haven't looked back.

>>6993424
>Sega meant for you to play on composite, there's just no getting around that
It depends on the game in question. Contra Hard Corps and Ghouls n Ghosts for example don't make clever use of composite blending to achieve any special effects like other games, and the spritework and text gets muddied, rather than enhanced, so for those, RGB is going to look closer to what the devs intended.

>>6993435
I absolutely agree in this respect, 100%. However, if someone is chasing a sort of "purity of intent", then they will never multiple setups, even for one system. Nintendo rather interestingly, seemed to develop for 8:7 aspect in the SNES era, and it can be seen in their sprites. If I wanted everything to look correct as Nintendo intended, I'd need some interesting hardware as a result.

>>6993424
If they meant for me to play it like that it would look that way on my Sonic’s Genesis Collection but it doesn’t.

>>6993248
> inferrier cable's
maybe use words that aren't too big for you

>>6993482
>He thinks some shitty port is the intended way to play
Zoomer, please leave.

>>6993465
>However, if someone is chasing a sort of "purity of intent", then they will need multiple setups, even for one system
Exactly.
>>6993482
Based. Imagine being a nincel in 2020 when Sega developers were so forward thinking that they designed their games around how they intended them to look being emulated on hardware 25 years in the future.

>>6993494
my dick is to big for you nincel looser

>>6993123
theyre not gonna understand
theyre gonna use laggy hdmi @ 60hz and complain about the games being too hard bc of latency issues

Just as the devs intended!

>>6993123
No click

>However, if someone is chasing a sort of "purity of intent", then they will never multiple setups, even for one system
Take this convenience a few steps further and you'll just emulate on the same screen you use for modern games. New filters are always being developed to reduce the damage modern screens do to these classics anyway. And it's pretty cool to alt-tab between games of any release date at your whim.

>>6994070
Git gud.

>>6993123
Do you need to do anything with a PS1 to play not original games?

>>6993424
Well what if I don’t want to play Sonic 1??

It seems like Sonic 1 is the only example of dithering ppl use. In every other Genesis game, RGB looks fantastic.

In fact RGB looks fantastic in Sonic 1 as well it’s just this small part with the waterfall that poorfags use to cope with the fact that they can’t afford or use Component or SCART cables

>>6994135
No. None of the games are original

>>6994175
>In every other Genesis game, RGB looks fantastic
Heckin' based, folks.

>>6994095
>western boxart

>>6994205
Oh wow, even ignoring how dirty that wormhole gets done in RGB, it actually ruins the rocket's engine, turns it into a fucking rubber ball

Best way to play a the Mega Drive is have RGB out of the console then transcode that to composite via something that has a built-in sharpness adjustment

>>6993424
> It's similar to how SNES developers were making their textures intentionally wrong so that they came out correct when overstretched on a 4:3 display.

Some developers did that. Others did not.

The simplest truth is that there is no one display configuration that is optimal for every single game. Any one you select will be perfect for some games and detrimental to others. You can either accept this (much like we did in the past, when this was still true!) and accept the occasional "blemish" in exchange for your preferences working out most of the time, or adjust your settings for every game out there.

Why isn't s-video suggested more? People either die by composite because of reasons like the sonic waterfall transparency effect, or they are die-hard rgb fags who want everything pixel perfect like a shitty 4x upscaled emulator.

what no one talks about is s-video. it's sharper than composite and eliminates the horrible checkerboarding effect that composite has. it's not RGB but it still looks nice.

>>6995369
>When discussing video options, why is always one extreme or the other? Why not discuss a middle-of-the-road option that doesn't quite do what either extreme is celebrated for?

>>6995385

god bless

>>6994175
There's also Shinobi III
These games are just used because they're well-documented cases of a very deliberate, very noticeable effect - but almost every game of this time period was designed with the limitations of CRT displays in mind.

RGB also looks fantastic in games that use a lot of color, like Sonic, but its noticeably ugly in games that use a painterly look with a lot of dithering like Earthworm Jim.

>>6995683
a lot of contrasting color*

>>6993262
This looks like the biggest group of faggots I've ever seen.
Nobody should be giving these commies faggots any attention.

>>6993465
>Nintendo rather interestingly, seemed to develop for 8:7 aspect in the SNES era
No they didn’t.

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/842048146184134656
oh no no no

>There are people out there who strive for jarring color-banding over easy to ignore dithering

It's like these high-functioning autistics want to be low-functioning.

>>6995835
Playing the games on a CRT with original hardware isn't really "striving" for anything

>>6995819
Carmack is a PC developer, I don't think he ever programmed anything for a CRT television display. He's also not the art guy.

As the developer intended.

>>6993123
I'm glad this isn't a problem on the SNES which is fully capable of true transparency effects

>>6996143
The problem on the snes is like 2 games compensating for the awful stretch and everything else having the art ruined.

>>6995810
>He actually doesn't know
https://youtu.be/ssluTgfkdlg?t=182

If anything the devs using dithering show their lack of technical foresight, and that these games are best left to the dustbin of history

>>6996162
>utilizing a signal limitation to create effects that would otherwise be impossible due to hardware constraints
>lack of technical foresight
What did he meme by this???

>>6996162
>implying
>Car manufacturers should have realized that the earth was going to flood and have made amphibious cars in the 1930's

>>6993248
You can't possibly be more of a faggot. Grats. You've set the bar.

>>6996147
>ruined

You know you're on /v*r*/, right?

And to think there were people who thought 6th gen being allowed would mean this board would miss out on it's 532789th thread of hard hitting discussion of dithering/composite vs rgb

>>6994095
>the underpaid marketing intern who did the packaging art for the games was the real developer all along
holy shit bros... my life is a lie

>>6996378
When the board has as little range of conversation, it's to be expected that we only have 3 types of threads.

>>6993465
>seemed to develop for 8:7 aspect in the SNES era
no

>>6996607
>it's another wrong guy
Hello. You'd do well to read the thread before braindead-posting

>>6996631
Tell me where in the world was a consumer NES console hooked up to an 8:7 display.

>>6996640
>https://orcaapp.herokuapp.com/snes#:~:text=The%20SNES%20and%20NES%20both,that%20signal%20to%204%3A3.
Apologize, nigger.

>>6996647
Reread my comment and apologize to me you faggot.

>>6996650
Who cares about NES when the subject of the quote you made was about SNES.
Try again without the non-sequitur

>>6996652
NES and SNES both apply. Keep reaching, retard.

>>6996123
How the fuck does the vita render this correctly?

>>6996657
Let's work this step by step because you are even worse than I am at holding a consistent position.
You tried to refute that Nintendo was developing games in 8:7, by saying that the console had to be using an 8:7 display in the consumer space. This doesn't even matter to the conversation, let alone mean anything in the sake of arguing. They developed games like Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Yoshi's Island, and Link's awakening exclusively on the 8:7 aspect ratio. That's the what pixel values in their games equate to, and that's what the art is drawn for. Who gives a single fuck what the people playing it on had. Your little fucking nostalgia feelings don't mean jack shit up against the facts of the hardware and it's intended use. People who knew what they were doing read: Not Nintendo took the effort to fuck up their spritework on the native resolution to support the CRT's being used and put into 4:3. Their intented aspect ratio was 4:3, and they used what they could to make that so.
Those people weren't Nintendo. Developers like Enix and Square intended 4:3, but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo intended 8:7, you subhuman. Kill yourself, because if you are somehow dumber than I am, you don't deserve your life.

>>6996678
He's shitposting.

>>6996680
Nintendo would have converted their spritework too, so that stuff would look competitive

>>6996696
What the fuck are you even talking about?
Are you saying that Nintendo changed it's sprite work to transition correctly into the 4:3 aspect ratio? Because that's literally not true. They developed on 8:7, you can see the warping of objects caused by the aspect ratio conversion.

>>6996701
You're not even talking to the same person. I'm saying they may have developed it on 8:7 but it was always going to be displayed on a 4:3 thus that is the way it is meant to be.

>>6996678
Vita means Life and thus has soul.

>>6996715
There's an argument to be made there, yes, but that does not predicate that such an argument will be the correct side. Nintendo has instances of squares or circles in their spritework that should be uniform shapes, where the squares are even on all sides, and the circles have equal radii. This can be proven to be true in the 8:7 ratio, but not in the 4:3 ratio. Knowing the intended shape of a sprite means that we know what ratio the game was drawn for, making one of the two ratios the "correct" ratio, despite what it was most commonly played on. Just because everyone was playing Nintendo developed games on the wrong aspect, doesn't make it the correct aspect by measure of popularity.

>>6996726
there isn't a single 8:7 consumer tv model (if there is it's pretty rare), they developed for 4:3. They had QA.

>>6993123
>how they used the hardware they had to make them better.
They used dithering coz they had no choice you fucking retard. If they could have used more colours they sure as shit would have.

>>6996740
>>6996726
Also, if I'm not mistaken, they did that as a "trick".

They chose to develop in that proportion not because they wanted to, but because the image would be "stretched" on TV.

So, if wanted to go from point A to point B, the character would move faster, the he would move in a 8:7 ratio. So why did they choose to do it in 8:7 instead of 4:3? Because they could use cheap/less powerful processors.

They didn't correct the sprites probably because of time/technical problems.

>>6996742
They could have just ignored how CRT's bled colors, and left dithering out, and game's would have had worse perceived color range as a result.
The used the inherent flaws of the hardware to enhance their games past those limitations.
Really not that hard of a concept to grasp.

>>6996740
They developed ON 4:3, they did not develop FOR 4:3. Proof of this exact concept can be seen in the 3DS' Virtual console. Pixel perfect on is "enforce 8:7 ratio", while Pixel perfect off is "enforce 4:3 ratio"
I don't care if you are the other anon or not, you have become willfully ignorant of the situation laid out in front of you. Sorry you're retarded.

>>6996754
Time or technical restraints didn't affect other developers on the hardware, so that isn't an argument. 3rd party devs were doing better sprite work than Nintendo's own in-house devs because they actively avoided fixing their work, that's the only reasonable explanation. How else could it be reconciled that even shitty ports brought to the SNES had corrected aspect ratios for home CRT's.

>>6996764
>Pixel perfect on is "enforce 8:7 ratio"
This option exists because in a CRT the pixels "blends" together, but it doesn't happen in a LED/LCD, so you need this option to make the pixels look square. Square pixels are more aesthetically pleasing then retangular/non proportional pixels.

They develpped for 4:3 screens, that's how they took advantage of the "sprite moving faster on screen" perception trick that they used,

I've seen a speedrunner talking about how playing Super Metroid felt off on a LCD screen because Samus seemed to move slower.

>Time or technical restraints didn't affect other developers on the hardware, so that isn't an argument.
Technical restraints is not an argument? Come on dude.

>>6996680
You keep letting the same guy bait you on the same topic with the same bad arguments every time. Just call him a faggot and ignore him.

>>6996792
>CRT the pixels "blends" together, but it doesn't happen in a LED/LCD, so you need this option to make the pixels look square.
this is your brain on drugs. Art was made square in the first place by Nintendo.
>I've seen a speedrunner talking about how playing Super Metroid felt off on a LCD screen because Samus seemed to move slower.
Quit trusting actual autists who can only play games well based on muscle memory.
>Technical restraints is not an argument?
The restraints you seem to imply could not have reasonably existed. Other developers got past those restrictions early on in the SNES' life, while Nintendo's own devs didn't. Your argument is null.

>>6996808
I really should, but the desktop notification is like the coke permeating my mucous membrane.

>>6996825
I see you are not interested in an actual discussion. See ya.

>>6993123
>not posting the most important one, which is your image
>it also would BTFO anyone who uses anything but composite for mega drive games

>>6996792
>>Pixel perfect on is "enforce 8:7 ratio"
>This option exists because in a CRT the pixels "blends" together
haha what the fuck, it just stretches them
>Square pixels are more aesthetically pleasing then retangular/non proportional pixels.
retard alert

>>6997034
>haha

>>6993123
Damn, I switched to retroarch a couple of years ago and just figured this is what the TV modes on kega are for. After all these years, I finally understand why genesis games looked so off on emulators next to the old crt. Stuff like Maui Mallard really took advantage of this.

>>6993123
That's not how Sonic Mega Collection looks through RGB SCART on my CRT.

>>6997670
quit shitting up my thread more than I already have.
-Dithering on the Sega Genesis with Composite Video-
https://youtu.be/x0weL5XDpPs

>>6996156
Nintendo had 8:7 crts?

>>6999092
Watch the videos dumbass.

>>6999179
Answer his question dumbass.

Maui Mallard for Genesis (never released in the US, only Europe and Brazil) had its graphics entirely designed to take advantage of that.

>imagine wanting to play Monster World IV in composite

>>6993123
I just wanted to say that Displaced Gamers' MSX video is probably the best video i've seen on YouTube to cover the platform that's in English

>>6993465
>seemed to develop for 8:7 aspect in the SNES era
Proof?

>>6995369
GDQ uses S-video for everything standard definition. It's good enough and easy to work with.

S-video makes Genesisn't games look like shit with every screen filled with vertical stripes that were meant to blend, and they did blend because no one played with anything but the included cables before sixth gen.

>>7002219
-Super Nintendo Aspect Ratio-
https://youtu.be/ssluTgfkdlg