/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6967429
Post the source.

>>6967429
>the man who created the term "Metroidvania" itself
That must have been so taxing for him

>>6967429
>Metroidvania
They're called SAGs, or Search Action Games.

>>6967429
the term probably actually comes from die hard game fan, I saw it used in magazines in the late 90s

>>6967432
https://mobile.twitter.com/gamespite/status/835855968839811074
>>6967453
That's straight up bullshit, Jeremy Parish and Scott Sharkey coined it in the mid 2000s, find me an example of the word from the 90s.

>>6967469
source: die hard game fan, egm, game informer

>>6967429
>1. Metroid
>2. Super Metroid
>3. Metroid II
>4. Zero Mission
>5. Symphony of the Night

If Cave Story counts then it's second best

>>6967474
Specific issues and page numbers please, source for OP list is here:
>>6967469

I know you can't because you're a lying tripfaggot

>>6967469
>Feb 26, 2017
How obsessed are you to dig for this?

>>6967429
1. SOTN
2. Faxanadu
3. Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
4. Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance
5. Aliens: Infestation (Yes, its a Metroidvania based on the Aliens license on DS and its bad ass)

>>6967502
Literally one google search friend, it was the second result.

>>6967508
Why were you searching for it in the first place?

>>6967508
Obsessed!

>>6967524
>>6967534
I was curious what the foremost expert in the genre considered to be its pinnacle.

>>6967545
I was being sarcastic, making fun of anon who accused you of being obsessed

>>6967492
I'm not giving you a fucking source for stuff I remember from the late 90s that was used to mock the fuck out of SOTN for not being Castlevania

I think those Castlevania games aged like milk and games like Ori and Hollow Knight far outclass them, but hey I guess it would be strange having a Metroidvania list without a Vania.

>>6967567
>I'm not giving you a fucking source for stuff I remember from the late 90s that was used to mock the fuck out of SOTN for not being Castlevania
Because it literally did not happen you lying tripfaggot piece of shit. Jeremy Parish popularized the term in the early 2000s.

>>6967553
Oh, sorry

>>6967504
simon's quest isn't a metroidvania. it's the half baked ancestor of SOTN but it's not a metroidvania

>>6967582
No, and Jeremy Parish is a faggot
Zoom on, zoomer

>>6967469
I don't doubt it. It's a gay term from a gay man.

>>6967429
This guy is a complete retard who couldn't beat the third level of Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts on the easiest difficulty with 9 lives. Nothing he says will hold any weight whatsoever when he so clearly can't actually play video games.

>>6967592
The first recorded instance of the term is by Richard Hutnik in 2001. This was just a term he came up with on the spot at the time according to him and he didn't even remember he had written it when asked years later. In the early 2000s Jeremy Parish popularized the term and is widely credited with being its inventor. He however says he got the term from fellow 1Up contributor Scott Sharkey, who used it in a conversation about the then recent GBA Castlevania games. Neither Sharkey or Parish had seen Hutnik's earlier usage and it's not hard to imagine two different people coming up with the portmanteau, considering the similarities between the two series it is made up from.

It's certain you did not see it in the 90s in various gaming magazines, Hutnik's one time 2001 usage is the earliest recorded.

>>6967670
It was either Metroidvania or "Super Metroid-like" I remember seeing. I do remember seeing Metroidvania in EGM letters section pointing out how unlike Castlevania SOTN was, but I don't have a big stack of EGM available to me atm.

>>6967678
You literally so not remember that, Richard Hutnik used it for the first time found in print in 2001. Metroid-like maybe. Or Metroidvania after Parish had popularized it in the mid 2000s.

>>6967469
>coined it in the mid 2000s
nigger metroidvania (and likewise castleroid, which was never as popular and fell out of use in '03 or '04) weren't coined by whoever this faggot is
source: having posted on imageboards and forums from 1999 onward

>>6967684
No, I remember seeing it in old copies of EGM, Die Hard Game Fan, and Game Informer. I also saw "Castleroid" being used.

All I know is that the term is useful because it lets me instantly filter out games when I'm looking for real platformers.

>>6967721
What imageboard were you using in 1999? Was 2ch even around yet? Fuck off you lying zoomer, google it yourself, this has literally all been documented. No one used the term in 1999, if they did then find it. You damn sure weren't on a chan imageboard in 1999 you lying faggot.

>>6967721
in fact
https://web.archive.org/web/20170120221744/http://www.usgamer.net/articles/design-in-action-%7C-symphony-of-the-night-and-the-metroidvania-lie
>Contrary to internet rumor, I did not coin the word... though I've certainly helped it to propagate. I picked it up from my former 1UP.com coworker Scott Sharkey, who had simply used it to describe the handful of Castlevania games to that point which adopted a Metroid-like exploratory world view.

>>6967723
Find the specific issues, since the people who documented this already couldn't find an example before Hutnik in 2001.

who gives a fuck who made up a made up word you fat nerds

>>6967731
I'm not going on a source hunt for some faggot who thinks Jeremy Parish is an expert on anything

>>6967727
I just posted this dumb ass
>>6967670

Parish is credited with popularizing it, since he started using it in articles after Scott Sharkey said it in a conversation they were having

>>6967732
The Faggot That Is OP apparently cares very much.

Literally who are these people and what video games did they develop that I should care about?

>>6967734
Because you're a fucking liar and a tripfaggot nigger. Just admit it.

>>6967753
I am a tripfaggot nigger, but I'm not lying.

>>6967754
At best you're having a false memory or the time periods are blurring in your head and you're thinking times you saw it in letter sections or whatever in the mid 2000s was in the 90s. It wasn't. Nerds who are obsessed with this kind of ephemera shit have already went through all the gaming press from this time and Hutnik's 2001 use is the earliest.

>>6967429
The man said himself that he didn’t invent the word.

>>6967429
In his own video he says he did not invent the word.

>>6967768
Curious how I remember it being used earlier then to MOCK SOTN. "Castleroid" stirred up memories in me too.

>>6967770
Yeah he said Scott Sharkey did, its been posted here like 5 times already

>>6967738
considering you're saying nobody had the fucking language to talk about a genre spawned from a game released in 1997 until 10 years later all because no one wants to do your gay homework apparently you needed a refresher
and just for reference this faggot you're worshiping ranks sotn over aria which automatically means he has shit taste

>>6967775
Read the thread

>>6967784
10 years? Richard Hutnik's first use in print was 2001, thats 4 years after 1997. Parish popularized its use and made it widely known in the early 2000s, not 10 years after.

>>6967768
the "gaming press" didn't invent the fucking term, it was in colloquial usage at least before 2005 which would be when I personally left gamefaqs where I had been talking with other users about metroidvanias/castleroids for years
you can shove your "false memories" up your ass along with scott sharkey and jeremy parish's dicks, I didn't go back to that site after august 4, 2005.

>>6967443

>>6967723
You're either clueless or a bold faced liar. I was a huge reader if GameFan and it was never ever used there. Parish and Sharkey didn't get into spats over whp coined it for nothing. Stop larping, it's a lame term and none of this even matters.

>>6967429
do serpeate top 5 list of "metroids" and "vanias", the games are too disparate otherwise

>>6967853
>Parish and Sharkey didn't get into spats over whp coined it for nothing.
Who even knows who these two losers are? Like who actually gives a fuck?

>>6967487
why wouldn't it count?

>>6967429
He's wrong about 2 and 5 and it's clear is understanding of the genre is remedial at best. His apparent coining of reddit's favorite catch-all term doesn't mean shit.

Sidescrolling action-adventure

>>6967429
Wrong.

>Super Metroid
>Enironmental Station Alpha
>Axiom Verge

That's quite literally it. all "vania" style 2d exploration games are nothing but pretty theme park trash.

>>6967903

>>6967903
>>6967908
Imagine watching this stuff unironically.

>>6967903
>>6967908
What are you trying to say with these clips?

>>6967862
Cave Story is rather linear and more action than puzzle solving. It definitely fits the "platforming action adventure" definition despite that, making it Metroid-like, but then it also doesn't have RPG mechanics at all so some people may say it's not a -vania. Whichever way people choose to classify it, it's a fucking great game. I'm replaying it again right now.

>>6967861
Apparently people invested in where the term metroidvania comes from...

This guy looks like Jim Cornette from WCW fame

>>6967956
>watching any wrestling after the WWF changed its name

>>6967950
I think he's trying to show how the person in question is too pozzed to prevent himself from talking about his political opinions in the middle of a video about games from decades ago.

>>6967429
Aria & Dawn are both better than SotN, you just have nostalgiavision

>>6967968
but just pozzed enough to be loved by faggots for taking credit for inventing a word that was in popular usage years before he "popularized" it

>>6967853
You mad? Parish and Sharkey are both faggots, and the only "game journalist" worth anything is the schizo John Sczenasdfasdfadf
I saw it in the late 90s in magazines, I saw it on the Internet

>>6967504
Based, I remember Aliens 3 on the Gamegear kicking my ass into shape when I was little.

>>6967968
There's nothing political about those clips. Mr Driller did fail to gain any western traction because marketing then was LOOK WE HAVE VIOLENCE AND ASS AND TITTIES AND NOT FOR KIDS. Look at the american box arts to Puzzle Bubble, a cute game about dinosaurs blowing bubbles at other bubbles. Surprised it didn't get a Bad Box Art Mr Driller for Murrica.

WHAT? METROIDVANIA WAS INVENTED BT SOME OBAMA VOTIN SOCIALUST LIBTARD? I NEED A NEW TERMINOLOGY NOW!!

I like Wonderboy 3.

For some reason I never really got into super metroid and I've known about the game since seeing it in old magazines since about 2000, I just play it for a bit then just lose interest. I like meroid fusion on gba better.

>>6967990
>There's nothing political about those clips
He literally went on a diatribe about how gaming was evil and sexist and racist.

>>6967684
>>6967678
Richard Hutnik's wasn't exactly "in print", it was in a Usenet post from 2001. This is the earliest example that can be found:

He posts about it here and links to the original 2001 Usenet post:
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/28900/so-i-coined-term-metroidvania

>>6968003
Which it was.

>>6968015
If only we could go back to such times.

>>6967784
What "genre"? People weren't grouping all these games together in their own genre until the days when Parish started doing it in articles, before then there wasn't people putting Metroid/Super Metroid, Faxanadu, Simons Quest, Goonies 2, SOTN etc into their own genre. That didn't start happening till the 2000s.

>>6968015
If you think gaming is so sexist and racist, why do you even play video games?

>>6967724
Only good post in this thread

>>6967429
>the man who created the term "Metroidvania"
And yet he did not create Metroid nor Castlevania so who the fuck cares?

>>6967953
all indie games are metroidvanias until proven otherwise

>>6968081
Fucking sucks, too. Because indie pixel art has gotten damn good, but all these games go in the trash because castleroids suck balls.

>>6968086
felt this way about owlboy. so nice to look at. hate playing it

>>6968090
Yeah, I nearly bought it based on the graphics alone but fortunately watched gameplay footage first and knew I wouldn't actually like it.

>>6968125
>watching gameplay footage
just pirate it to sample it bro. you can't evaluate a game w/o playing it yourself

>>6967429

You mean action adventure games.

>>6967978
I'm not mad but you're either lying or delusional.

>>6967429
The top two being the two biggest influencers of the genre makes sense I guess.
Haven't played Axiom Verge but I've heard it's shamelessly derivative of Super Metroid.
If any Castlevania besides SotN were to make the list it would definitely be Aria of Sorrow.
Guacamelee is mediocre and not the peak of the genre at all, it takes so little advantage of its interconnected map that it barely qualifies as a Metroidvania. Of all the Metroidvanias I've played it has probably the worst exploration/world (outside of maybe Fusion but I wouldn't even put it in the genre).

Obviously he posted the list in 2017 so it's already outdated. Literally two days after a certain other game came out.

>>6968410
What game?

>>6968420
Hollow Knight, released Feb 24 2017, guy posted list Feb 26 2017.

>>6968427
Oh, I assumed some Shantae game came out. Since those are the only Castleroids worth playing.

>>6968427
Ah.

Well I agree that this list is pretty fucking weak especially for Mr. Metroidvania himself Jeremy Parish. I figured for sure he would rate classics like Zelda II above dogshit like Gucamelee

>>6967429
>1. Jet Set Willy
>2. Zork
>3. Montezuma's Revenge
>4. Nonce Quest 2
>5. Metroid 2

>calls it a 'SAG', a 'Metroidvania' or a 'Willylike'
>not a rindy tindy shoot 'n findy
>not a wurky turky stab 'n searchy
>not a runty munty smack 'n hunty
>not a routy douty bop 'n scouty

>>6967429

i fucking love aria of sorrow but why would that be up there when circle of the moon did it first and better? i'm baffled.

it's videos like his that make me dislike the genre, that and every retard indie dev has watered down the concept with endless amounts of stupid lore shit, bloated combat, or rpg mechanics.

>>6968718
>>6968718
Why? His videos are extremely well done, literally the gold standard for academic style game documentaries, if he ever completes his various 'Works' series, (which are chron-gaming projects, he's planning to cover every NA game for these consoles and relevant Japanese ones, in order of release date) or his Metroidvania Works series, they will be the go-to informative serious tone documentaries for these games for decades to come. They are going to be the video supplement to his 'Works' book series, which is obviously much farther along than the videos. His books are also really good and are published by FanGamer.

You guys always REEEE about muh e-celebs but Parish really isn't one. He's more a serious game historian/journalist

>>6969603
I don't like how you're running with some dude's opinion as ACADEMIC ANALYSIS. It's like when people cited a Kurt Kalata article on Wikipedia on bullshit he invented about the Japanese reception of Generations of Chaos and Spectral Force and then when asked for source he pointed back to Wikipedia thus creating a citation loop.

>>6967429
Axiom verge ain't that good.
Guacamelee literally what
La mulana 2 and hollow knight instead.

>>6969631
It literally is academic analysis, how about watch one of his videos before saying its reading a Wikipedia article. He also provides sources when applicable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Vl5idPRVs

https://www.fangamer.com/products/nes-works-volume-i-1985
I don't see how you can call his books "just some guy". Ok, if levels of quality and research of Parish's level don't meet your criteria for serious academic works on gaming, what does? How high does the bar have to be? Or is it only because it's video games and you can't even entertain the fact someone might know more than you about them?

>>6969647
I never said he reads wikipedia links I'm saying he can make an unsubstantiated claim such as "the Japanese have taken to nicknaming Idea Factory as Idea Fuck" and people can run with it for years. Does he have sources that Mr Digger didn't sell because Americans were more interested in violence? Nintendo games are pretty gay and they seemed to have sold pretty well that gen.

>>6969656
>Mr Driller
Brain fart.

>>6969656
I sure he does, whether its from talking to devs himself (he has met and interviewed MANY devs from the classic era over the years) or a more traditional source. Either way, literally anyone presenting them as an academic/expert on something can make claims or comments like this and have it get perpetuated. It's more rare with internet resources now, but that kind of shit happened in historical academia for decades before the internet.

>>6969647
>>6969603
Parish is a fucking nigger faggot who's perpetuated bullshit before and gets defensive when he's called out on it (like most dipshit "historians" he has real DONT @ ME problem because god forbid some nobody might know more than you). He's a faggot who like most in his gaggle of retards also needs to parrot his politics as well like he wants to be taken seriously by some intelligentsia as a sophisticated games writer because hurr talking politics make me smart. Fuck off back to twitter you easily amused jackass.
>b-but he not eceleb
>known for running an old site ToastyFrog about old games
>known for an internet podcast about old games
>now desperately trying to break in on an oversaturated youtube gaming scene with online videos
Yeah, he's not an eceleb at all. Retard.

It's obvious he'll never finish his works series with how he keeps deviating into other systems the moment he plays some shovelware or gets bored with playing games for one system. Fuck him and fuck you.

>>6969751
why are you so mad

>>6969603
>His videos are extremely well done, literally the gold standard for academic style game documentaries
He couldn't even beat the third level of Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts on the easiest setting with 9 lives. He incorrectly stated that the game has no slowdown, the chests are randomized and even that the double jump originated in the previous game. All objectively incorrect statements. Also he couldn't beat the first three levels of Ghosts 'n Goblins on NES either.

>>6969647
>How high does the bar have to be?
I'll settle for not spreading misinformation about a game because it filtered you and you simply couldn't be bothered to look up any information about the game.

>>6967429

How can you even create a list is greatest metroidvanias and not include the original Metroid?

>>6970276
Metroid isn't a metroidvania you retard. That'd be like calling Doom a Doom-clone

>>6967429
Is he, dare I say, our guy?

>>6970015
>>6970023
Here come the Ghost n Goblins autists again. Skill at some arcade to snes port has no relation on the quality of someones facts and research in an academic work. The points he makes about the game are valid.

If your only major criticism you always fall back on is that the guy couldn't beat Ghosts n Goblins, I'd say hes doing a pretty good job.

>>6968645
>Circle of the Moon better than Aria
Is this bait? Circle of the Moon is dogshit and Aria is just as good or some would argue even better than SoTN

>>6970394
>Skill at some arcade to snes port has no relation on the quality of someones facts and research in an academic work.
First of all Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts isn't a port, now you're giving him a run for his money. Secondly skill clearly does play a role when the quality of his research suffers as a result to the point of making 100% incorrect statements. What's the matter, Wikipedia not privy to how the individual game mechanics work?
>The points he makes about the game are valid.
Just as valid as someone who read the first three chapters of a book before making a video about it, that is to say not at all by any stretch of imagination.

>>6970412
You sound like a complete sperg with this GnG shit

>>6970436
You sound like complete retard for defending this cuck.

>>6970440
Says the guy who says it doesn't matter how many Japanese developers someone talks to or how many countless hours they put into research, its all literally academically worthless if you can't win at Ghosts n Goblins. You're the retard here and it's bizarre how this is the thing you always pop up to criticize him with.

>>6970412
Show me where he is reading along in a Wikipedia article? Some of the games he has covered don't even have Wikipedia pages or they're just stubs you absolute retard.

>>6970446
>how many countless hours they put into research,
If he put hours into researching a game and still couldn't beat the first three levels on the easiest setting while also miraculously getting information incorrect then yes I must say he absolutely objectively sucks at what he professes to do.
>>6970453
>Show me where he is reading along in a Wikipedia article?
Any of his videos.

>>6970465
Show me specifically, lines lifted from the article, similat syntax or structure. You can't do it. And what about the videos that have no Wikipedia articles?

You will never be able to justify that someone can't do valid academic works on retro game because there was one they couldn't beat. Does any video game historian also have to be the best at video games in the world? Can you beat every single game for NES, SNES etc? Because his Works series is chronologically covering every title released.

Its retarded. You're just some GnG sperg who got mad he said he didn't finish it himself. The GnG series is kinda shit, you should move on.

>>6970481
>Because his Works series is chronologically covering every title released.
So it's some talentless faggot uploading pointless and incorrect videos for the grift. That's not a good thing.
>You're just some GnG sperg who got mad he said he didn't finish it himself.
And you're a simp for this cuckold who uploads shit videos. I bet you're a paypiggie too.

>>6970491
>simp
>cuckhold
>no valid arguments

Not even him but you're failing pretty hard. Try making a claim you can back up, it might go better for you.

>>6970527
I can back up all of those claims, I mean evidence for each one has already been posted ITT.

>>6970394
He's shit at video games and is part of that """game journalist""" circlejerk along with anita, kurt kalata, etc the same lot who thinks games are so HATEFUL and RACIST and bitch at japanese developers for including big titty anime girls in their games

>>6967429
Faggot should stick to one console instead of starting new series every goddamn month.
Also.
>No La Mulana
Opinion discarded.

>>6967429
>>6967469
Really? He doesn't even rank something like Adventure of Link higher than fucking Gucamelee?

>>6970402

not bait, but it's been years since i've played either but CotM had a larger impact on me than AoS since I played all of the GBA/DS castlevanias in order at the times of their release. Feel free to refresh me on why you think that way, i am truly interested and not trolling.

He also coined “structurally oppress em-ups” to describe belt scrollers that take time place in lower class urban underbellies like streets of rage.

>>6967738
>popularizing

oh, we've moved goalposts away from created now? we're going to settle for popularizing?

at this point, these threads are troll threads for lulz of trying to convince people there's a forced meme effort underway.

>>6967954
Any gamer speaking a germanic language (and I mean proper germanic, not the lowly pidgin that is english) would naturally come up with that portmanteau very soon after CotM came out, since saying metroidcastlevanias quickly gets tiring.

>>6972204
I'm not OP and I am pretty sure the origin has been discussed at length in this thread

Parish is a fucking faggot.