/vr/ - Retro Games

lol
who cares nigger, play the game and just tell people you beat it legit, they won't know

Who cares, play how you want.

This topic has been done to death and has had its rotting corpse done a thousand times more. Go to the archives and search for OPs that contain "savestates" if you want to know more.

What you described is considered a fair usage except by only the most staunch purists. It's just quicksaving and quickloading.

>>6954394
even back then, 3rd-4th gen gaming was kind of suffering. i never had the stamina to finish games without a level select cheat, warp points, memory saves or passwords. I have attempted leaving my console on, but i dont think that's kosher. but ive had more games unfinished than when i emulated them.

the main reason being disciplinary limits concerning school.

>>6954394
if you beat the game on something that has the option of savestate you didnt really beat the game

>>6954394
>Let's say I'm emulating a game, and my goal is to truly understand a game first, and enjoy myself second. Is it fair to use savestates in situations in which, if played on original hardware, I could simply leave the console powered on and come back later?
Pretty much. I'd say you're good as long as you don't re-load the same save state multiple times -- if you need to retry a level or whatever you should use the ingame save feature for that (if available).

>>6954481
>thinking OP cares whether some children on a chinese basket weaving forum think he 'beat a game legitimately'

>>6954394
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.

>>6954486
Clearly he does if he's making this dumb thread. He shouldn't though

>>6954394
Just do what you like.
Most of these systems where designed to pressure renters into buying the games by wasting time. If you really have fun with that, then more power to you. It's your experience

>>6954394
>all this mental masturbation
Do whatever you want. There are no rules. Wear a skirt and become a tranny if you think speedrun skills is that important.

>>6954542
It's not about what other people think, it's about having an accurate impression about the game.

>>6954546
Your post is a good example of exactly what I mean. If I play every difficult retro game with savestates, heavily negating the difficulty, how could I come to the same conclusion you did?

Anyway, every response so far is hung up on someone having a sense of pride, or legitimacy in the eyes of other people. I don't give a shit. I want to understand a game as deeply as possible, period.

>>6954561
Using savestates/loads are actually extremely helpful for learning to speedrun a game though lol.

Also I suck cocks.

>>6954486
You know, the issue is lack of context, a legitimate 1 credit clear doesn't feel any different than a cheated clear if no one is going to acknowledge your struggle. If people weren't so dox happy about stream sites this problem could have easily been solved if we streamed ourselves attaining our totally legitimate gaming goals.

>>6954564
>If I play every difficult retro game with savestates, heavily negating the difficulty, how could I come to the same conclusion you did?
I recommend reading interviews and watching game history videos. There's a lot of interesting perspectives to how they where developed and designed.

cheating is fucking amazing for short action games, I recommend doing it as much as possible. if you want to do a legit run after you git gud, that's cool, but you can improve much faster with save state cheating.

using it to get good rolls and cheat death in rpgs and stuff is just gay though

>>6954486
You clearly do, since you made the thread and all.

>>6954394
Playing with savestates is like watching a movie on fast-forward. You can get a glimpse of things but you rob yourself of everything that has to do with pacing, which is the most important thing. The difficulty curve goes entirely to shit, so you get no satisfaction from any of the challenges, which leaves the experience bland.
Reading the last page of a book is not "cheating", and neither is playing with save states. You just rob yourself of the experience for no reason or gain.

>>6954394
You think savestates are bad? Retro re-releases nowadays don't ship without a rewind button. God forbid having to start a section from the checkpoint if you die.

>>6954394
Peeps normally resort to save states when challenge makes the game a tad too suspenseful. But that's the entire point of action games. Imagine watching a movie, but whenever there's ANY sort of suspense, you immediately stop it and read a synopsis before finishing the scene, and then claim that you looooooove sticking it to the man like that and suspense is for losers and posers.
>>6954913
Rewind functionality in games not designed for it is as if there was a "quickly spoil me the plot before the scene has ended" button in a movie. It's very silly stuff that makes no sense. "Cheating" is a completely retarded angle that only serves to confuse people further, when in reality they're playing the game in the least enjoyable fashion possible, robbing themselves of the whole point of action gameplay, which is tension followed by a release and a sense of satisfaction.

>>6954394
I use save states on games more to see if they're worth playing normally. Sometimes it works out in the game's favor and other times not. An excellent example is Shiren the Wanderer, a game I mostly played via the DS port that came out a few years back.

Roguelikes are one of my favorite genres and something I typically never save state with because it breaks the game and removes the tension which is the fun. But after a lot of Shiren it started to feel kind of "off" in a way and I got conflicting feedback whether the fortune teller in it was real or not.

Long story short I used save states as a way to delve into how the game actually works and found that it basically uses a set of premade maps and will alter certain features depending on what the weather is like which is what the fortune teller hints at.

There are two ways to play it. Either build up items and powerful weapons through runs so you can brute force or try to play it like a real roguelike where you start from the ground up every time. The first doesn't interest me a ton since it's basically just typical jrpg grinding so the second was what I really interested in.

In the end it's kind of devilishly designed, to make you feel discouraged a lot and then awesome when you finally win. But really it's a slot machine which will give you mostly unwinnable games and then occasionally throw you an easy one. It gives the impression you did an amazing job but really it's the game almost handing you a win.

It ultimately killed my interest in the game but I still see it as a good thing because I've now stopped wasting time on it hoping or dreaming my gut impression was off.

>>6954564
>it's about having an accurate impression about the game
you already won't have one because you're playing on an emulator

>>6956384
You people are surreal.

>>6956821
Your cope is surreal.

If you get good then you're good, doesn't matter if you used savestates or not. If you just use savestates to cheese a game once and call it a day that's pretty gay tho

>>6956241
Thanks for your story

That's fucking gay btw

>>6954394
This is the most autistic, OCD thing I've ever seen

I try to only use them at checkpoints or when the game a has a save feature, just to cut down on load times. But just knowing that they're there, that in a moment of desperation I could break and use them, kind of cheapens the whole experience.

>>6957489
>kind of cheapens the whole experience
Buddy, you're playing with a children's toy, not free soloing.

>>6954394
savestates are great if you use them as a quick load to get back to the same spot if you're turning the game off.
the idea is that back in the day you'd pause and let the console stay on because the cart doesn't have saving, or you're getting kicked off the tv or have to sleep or whatever.

anyone who uses savestates for actual cheating kinda misses the point when it comes to game design. you have limited lives and take damage for a reason. typically you play your best when you're on your last life and there's something on the line. its the game forcing the player to learn how to play the game instead of just "experiencing it" like current gen movie games. i'd go as far to say anyone who abuses savestates in a retro game hasn't actually beat it.

>>6957415
Most of the games I emulate these days are the ones I enjoyed on their systems back in the day. The difference is negligible.

>>6957461
It does make sense since all of Chunsoft's other mystery dungeon games have been pretty awful, it just took some testing to suss out that Shiren really was the same.

>>6954394
If you're going to go out of your way to try and be true to the way the hardware worked, you would leave the computer and emulator running overnight rather than using savestates.

>>6957672
>my low standard are also surreal
lol

>>6957845
Emulating looks and sounds better than a crt ever did. I play for the best experience not nostalgia.

>>6957853
what controller is that
It looks neat

>>6957873
It's a mad katz brawl pad with the ugly wrestlers sanded off. Pretty solid controller.

>>6957853
>my cope is also surreal
Do you have any bad attributes that aren't?

>>6954394
You shouldn't really use them

In super mario bros 3, say you use them to beat the game first. Really you are not to go through it again to beat it normally because you have already seen everything, you have just ruined the surprise. This is for a game you are really intersted in, other games can be bad but you still want to mess around with.

Some games were absurdly long such as kid chameleon, use the savestates sparingly.

Back in the day just playing the game was fun enough, you didn't have to beat every game all the time. What are you on some kind of speed running challenge.

I did actually used it in the lion king to practise jumping on the hippo tail but this was not some super acclaimed game that I would regred not experiencing fully.

>>6956384
Kek

Based

Depends. I will always savestate if a game uses a password system or has RNG grinding. For the first it's basically just the same thing as remembering the password, and for the second i don't like letting random chance like that determine whether I'm going to enjoy a game. I'll gladly savestate on a lotto system and bruteforce a result out of it. If that's not playing it honestly, then I do not want to play it honestly. It is generally pretty gay to savestate through games that already have things like infinite continues or doing it between boss phases though.

So yeah, if you're doing it to replicate real things like taking passwords down, leaving the system running, or even screencapping scenes so you don't have to get out a pen and paper to write down puzzle hints, it's all still in the spirit of things.

>>6957924
You're trying too hard lol

>>6958005
>my projecting is surreal
So no?

I think almost nobody really got the point of my post.

I'm talking about savestates being analogous to the specific situation regarding leaving a console powered on.
Assuming that someone is already choosing to engage with a game by following its intended rules regarding punishment (which I am), would using savestates in that specific circumstance adhere to the spirit of that decision?

I shouldn't be surprised that almost everybody here immediately went to the tired subject of whether or not savestates are "cheating" or if you should feel pride etc. etc. A subject which I already tried to establish as something to be ignored in my original post anyway.

There are a few replies that are about what I was talking about. And some of the off-topic replies are good too. Anyway I'm convinced that generally the answer is "yes it's fine".
But >>6957814
I might hold myself to this just to go the extra mile. It's maximum sperg but I'm already a sperg by talking about this to begin with.

>>6958494
>I think almost nobody really got the point of my post.
welcome to /vr/

>>6958494
The point of your post was not to seek validation of your existence from strangers on the internet? Where did you say anything remotely like that?

>>6954394
Imagine giving a fuck what 4chan says. Savestates are great and imagine going back to pig-disgusting real hardware after using them for ~25 years.

>>6954531
>t. someone who will never be Japanese or a girl

>>6956384
no one cares

>>6954787
Playing rpgs is gay anyway

>>6958224
Lol. What makes you think I care that some bratty child on 4chan gets triggered by how I play games?

>>6958494
So you are basically asking whether it's okay to use a savestate instead of leaving your emulator on overnight? If so I'm confused why you are even asking the question anyway. Or do you just need validation from anonymous basement dwellers that you are autistic?

>>6956241
>But really it's a slot machine which will give you mostly unwinnable games and then occasionally throw you an easy one.

That's every roguelike fucking trash games.

I use savestates if i wanted too because im bored and its fun to mess alround with.

>>6958494
I don't see any problems with it. I think it's fine anon.

>>6958494
I think you're overly obsessing about something that just doesn't really matter. How about if you want to understand games better, spend more time playing them than thinking about this? If your goal is based off of that idea, then just do it, it's fine. Also you are implying that because a developer designs a game a certain way that its intended to be played that way, or that that is the best way to play it. You can enjoy a game at your own pace, in your own style, that is something that will forever be true about games because it isn't like a book, you aren't being forced down a linear route, or at least a route as linear as a book. Sometimes you'll play a game and you'll experience it entirely incorrectly and that will affect your overall outlook of the game. Like missing a crucial item and tediously having to backtrack, then in your mind you might think "oh it should have been easier to see". That isn't even a wrong opinion either, it could be totally valid. I'm just saying that more things affect how you experience a game than just when you pick up and play it. There is no perfect way to play a game, or rather the perfect way to play it is in a manner that lets you be free and you do your own thing. Developers of good games not only take into account how they want the game to progress but how the game will react if the player decides to detour or mess around, or do whatever the fuck else. I just think you need to kill the concept of a perfect way to do things as the imperfect way to do things is what games are designed around. To answer your question though, yes, a save state is functionally the same thing as leaving your game on all night as long as the game has a pause feature. No the developers did not play some game of 4d chess and try to incorporate leaving your console on overnight into the way the game is experienced, and there is fundamentally no difference from pausing for 5 minutes or 24 hours.

>>6959036
lmao git gud

>>6954394
Your fine. Just play. No, you cant beat a game using save states and act like its some big accomplishment but use them to practice and learn about a game. Dont worry about retards like >>6954481. If its something like an RPG, no one will care anyway.

>>6954394
>Is it fair to use savestates in situations in which, if played on original hardware, I could simply leave the console powered on and come back later?
yes, this is the only fair use of save states for casually playing a game.

>>6954394
>Is it fair to use savestates in situations in which, if played on original hardware, I could simply leave the console powered on and come back later?
Yes, that's exactly how I use savestates and exactly what I did with long games like Mario 3 as a kid.

>>6958787
You've literally been triggered and coping for half the thread and are now projecting, bratty child. I don't care how you play and have never commented on it. I'm only making fun of you because you're a literal faggot that calls people who disagree with you "surreal" because that's the kind of thing people post when they have a cock in every orifice.

>>6959036
>That's every roguelike fucking trash games.

They really aren't. There's randomization of course as part of the base of the genre, but it's learning to use that randomization to your advantage. The complexity of a good one usually means if you know what you're doing and are on your game you should be able to win.

The record for Nethack is a 36 game streak for example. But due to the luck system as well as the simplicity of Shiren that's not possible without abusing the warehouse. I ran into scenarios that even with save scumming made for impossible wins and that's just bad design.

>>6959291
Lol you're surreal.

>>6959302
Unwinnable how? Sounds like you needed to git gud.

Save

https://www.nintendo.com/nes-classic/super-mario-bros-and-super-mario-bros-3-developer-interview/
>Miyamoto: Back when Super Mario Bros. 3 came out, everyone was stressed because they couldn't save, with some even saying they played it through without ever turning off the power! (laughs)
>But this time you've got four Suspend Points. Even better, you have four for each of the 30 games.
>So I hope players will save all they want to relieve the stress they felt before.

>>6960516
Thanks for the link.

>>6959646
Unwinnable as in you don't have a lot of options in Shiren other than attack or using an item you have at your disposal. So for one your success in a blind run depends greatly on finding a decent weapon and even moreso on building up a store of useful items.

So in two seeds of the same level layout, one with favorable weather and the other with "cold winds" a given floor had a number of very useful items, a decent sword, two big riceballs (needed to keep hunger at bay) a blastwave scroll (very important for higher levels) and jar of holding (also super handy). In the favorable run depending how I ran it I could get all the items knowing where they and enemy positions were. Otherwise it was likely as on my first time through that I would get most.

On the "Cold Winds" run some enemies are replaced with Field Bandits who turn every item into weeds before you can get to them. Through many loads and reloads I was only able to get the jar before it was ruined and only if I knew where it was and to beeline for it. Something you could never know playing normally.

To compound things like valuable food being turned into weeds, there will be far more traps in your way. So the hunger clock means you can't practically check every square before proceeding meaning you will walk into traps that fuck you up.

The whole game is literally a big slot machine that takes ages to tell you whether you lost or not.

Pretty much, roguelikes can get easier with enough knowledge and skill, and let's not even mention roguelites, there are people who easily beat those and even speedrun them despite the random nature.

>>6961376
Well Shiren basically is one of the first Roguelites with how it downplays permadeath and introduces grinding between plays into the genre. Chunsoft's subsequent games like Chocobo and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon are solidly roguelite in design.

>>6959307
see >>6957415

>>6961779
Even that is trying too hard. No one cares what you think lol

nobody cares.
if you use it to undo deaths in fire emblem or do similar thats worse then being literal hitler

save states are a tool like anything else, I use them generally as a time-saving feature, not a method of cheating my way past challenges

>>6962615
>still coping
>y-y-you're trying to hard

>>6963039
I only ever reply to bump the thread. Your initial comment was already riddiculous bait and since you've just been trying harder and harder but have nothing of value to say. Thanks though.

Bump.

>>6962872
Time saving is the biggest use for them. It's one thing where if you die repeating that section is important but it's more common it was just boring filler till you get to the challenge. There's nothing good about having to play five minutes of easy shit to get to a challenge that might wipe you in 1 or two hits. Let me try again but don't waste my fucking time.

>>6964540
The 'boring filler' excuse is the only valid one, imo. Say you have an rpg with a gigantic 5 min long dialog sequence before the fight. If I wanna reattempt on dying, why sit through that again? In action games, if I know I can get up to a boss with minimal hits and no death, yet die on the boss, why do the running to the boss bit again and again if I can pretty much survive it easily every time? I'm gonna lose to the boss a few times anyway til I get it right, so getting back to the 'important part' is something you feel you wanna do faster.

I know, games are supposed to drain your staying power and make you -want- to put them down for the day, but I think that savestate rule is sometimes justified. That and just savestating when the game gives us a password so we don't need to write it down.

>>6964616
>I know, games are supposed to drain your staying power and make you -want- to put them down for the day,

Not him but that seems the opposite of what a game is supposed to do. A good one should hype you up and fill you with the thrill of the challenge to come.

>>6964312
What initial comment was that faggot?

>>6954394
>Those systems are designed for good reason
In old western games those systems were designed because they didn't want people to be able to clear it in one night and complain about how they didn't get their money's worth.

>>6964852
This one of course. >>6956384

>>6965728
All that cum guzzling has rotted your brain

>>6966156
Ohh what a surprise, more weak nonsensical bait. Your initial statement was idiotic and all you've done since try harder and harder to troll, but nothing of value to say.

what about games where you can save anywhere, but its quicker to load a savestate (like Ys)
is that cheating?

>>6967526
>post proof that post faggot thought was yours isn't yours
>faggot pretends that never happened and continues being a retarded faggot
Is there a brain in that skull of yours or is it just full of cum?

>>6968515
What the fuck are you even talking about now? Stop mumbling about cum and try to make a little sense for once. Saying someone can't have an accurate idea of what a game is like because they used an emulator is idiotic, that's the point.

>>6954394
Is that screenshot from ZSNES or Genecyst? Either way, soulful.

>>6968929
It's FCEUX

>>6954920
Exactly this. I don’t know when it happened, but these days difficulty is seen as this unfair oppression that deserves to be torn down. People don’t just put down games they don’t enjoy, they need to cheat their way through them just to complain about them online

>>6968921
What's really idiotic is saying someone who didn't say someone can't have an accurate idea of what a game is like because they used an emulator said someone can't have an accurate idea of what a game is like because they used an emulator

>>6969014
>you already won't have one because you're playing on an emulator

Like I say, you people are surreal.

>>6954394
I use save states for their intended purposes
So I can continue from the point I left it at if I can’t save it, I don’t want to leave my pc running if I’m not going to use it

>>6969161
Your cope is surreal

>>6969575
Most of the games I emulate these days are the ones I enjoyed on their systems back in the day. The difference is negligible. And no my standards aren't low, you're just spewing nonsense out if desperation lol.

>>6956384
mods should have closed the thread after this one, basic common sense.

>>6970572
Lol

>>6970474
Looks like you replied to the wrong person again faggot. You really should see a doctor about that. All that cum guzzling has rotted your brain. Of course your standards are low. You'll swallow any cock you can get. You know it's true. The real shame is in not being proud of who you are.

>>6971671
I don't care who either of you are, you're both trying too hard over an idiotic comment. More empty insults can't distract from that.

>>6972013
Your lack of caring is surreal

>>6972045
Why would I care when you both sound the same and have nothing to say? When did you decide to start replying? Lol

>>6972397
Your inability to work out when i started replying is surreal. It was here >>6972045

Moderate savestate use is fine, like >>6969323 and saving here and there.

Savescumming every 10 seconds of a game is fucking retarded, might as well not even play the game at that point.

I hope you guys don't expect backwards compat for your savestates, there's a new emulator feature being integrated into more and more emulators that breaks compat with older savestates.

Forget the name of the feature, something about dropping a frame pre-emptively to shorten input lag. Also causes the occasional frameskip and wonky input in fighting games I hear.

>>6972582
Why would I bother to even try to tell any of you apart when you all just parrot each other anyway? You people are surreal.

>>6973295
So just use an older version of the emulator.

>>6957672
Is having low standards and poor reaction time a gay thing or just you specifically?

Who cares about savestates when you could have Bowling for the Atari VCS?

>>6975362
Lol. Which tryhard are you this time?

>caring what other people think
You have to go back

>>6954394
jesus christ who gives a shit what the dipshits on this board think, just do what you want.

>>6975378
The one that got you to post a surreal reply

Beating something once is luck, being able to beat something consistently is a skill. Savestates remove the need for consistency. Savestates remove the need for skill.

I used to be against savestates but after playing through some PS1 jank and realizing how much time I was wasting staring at save menu and loading screens I just gave in. Also in games where save system is fucked up it's even worse, replaying 15 minutes of bullshit just to have another shot at an instant death section is not fun and a waste of time.

>>6954531
I want some Parmeggiani with this pasta

>>6954564
>Also I suck cocks

For real? What is this trend about??
70% of GDQ is now gay/tranny

>>6956384
Dangerously based.

>>6954394
i played rayman psx months ago literally quicksaving after every jump and after dodging every boss attack.

>>6975975
They've all given me surreal replies so it doesn't narrow it down much but that's probably because you're all basically the same weak troll. Trying to seriously argue that you can't get a good impression of a game because of an emulator is ridiculous to anyone who's experienced both.

Cue a bunch of gibberish replies about cum and sucking dicks because that's all you babies think about lol.

>>6977364
I'm not arguing anything. Just pointing out that you can spot a cum guzzler a mile away by the way they shitpost.

>>6954394
>Is it fair to use savestates in situations in which, if played on original hardware, I could simply leave the console powered on and come back later?
I guess so, as long as you don't load that save again you're not being cheap or anything but it's still not quite the same thing as beating a game in a single sitting with the same conditions if that's something you were to give a toss about. (I mean, I wouldn't, but I do understand it.)

>>6978092
Lol I'm not the one shitposting.

>>6978228
Your shitposting is surreal

This is one of the most retarded topics on this board. Yes, even more retarded than the gen 6 posters.

>>6978283
Saying an emulated game doesn't give a good impression of what the game is like is surreal. Dragging it out this long because you're too chickenshit to admit what a dumb thing it is to say is shitposting. I'm just not backing down from your bs.

>>6978228
Nobody cared who I was until I put on the mask.

>>6978291
Constantly strawmanning like this is surreal

>>6978769
>strawmaning
Nice try but I'm just saying what you dipshits already did.

>>6954394
I wouldn't bother for games that aren't long, like most NES platformers and SNES ones too. Really I don't see any point in save states except for when you beat one of those games and want to have a 'snapshot' of the ending, but I don't care what you do OP the purpose of games is enjoyment not some autistic pursuit of 'beating' them

>>6978896
When you fail so hard you start coping to the entire rest of the world it's surreal

>>6981602
It's surreal you're still trying to push a lie for who knows what reason lol.

Save states are based, emulators are based, filters are based, and being able to use awesome controllers like the saturn pad for every system is hella based.

If you disagree, well, I don't much care for what some fag thinks, so make like a tree and dilate.

>>6954394
Just enjoy the game.I'd rather have discussion with people who beat the game with savestates than people who just watch someone play it on YouTube. If your self-worth is hinging on the fact that you told random people you beat a game without savestates you need a new hobby.

As for myself, I tend to use them for as you said, picking up a game exactly where I left off. This is especially nice in older titles where you can only save at certain locations - it removes the hassle of going out of my way to find a save point and it's sort of nice having that feeling of just right away getting into the action.
I'll also occasionally use them for testing dumb shit in platformers so I don't have to die and get back to where I was to try it again.

>>6981658
It's not a lie that your cope is surreal

>>6981912
>I ruin the difficulty curve and pacing for myself for no reason whatsoever and I won't care what a fag things about the way I'm not having fun without evenr ealizing it whoa mom's gonna freak

>>6982130
Yes it is lol, I don't even have anything to cope over. You can meme the same memes but it doesn't make them any more true.

>>6982317
You've been coping for over a week. It's surreal.

>>6982378
I'm just finding your surreal trolling silly, you're the one(s) coping because your initial statement was idiotic lol.

Play how you want. I use games as a break, so I might play 15-30 min at a time. No convenient save? Plop down a save state.

Also, suck shit at the game and am just trying to squirm through or improve with certain mechanics? Save state if it'll help. I do enjoy a degree of challenge, but IRL is hard enough. I don't need another issue to tack on.

>>6982397
Your tenuous grip on reality is surreal

>>6982597
Lol you wish, troll baby.

>>6956821
He is right, emulation makes games feel 100% different.

>>6982604
Your projecting is surreal

>>6982674
My extensive experience with both disagrees fundamentally. Unless you're playing on a toaster or using some garbage ancient emulator it's really the same. This whole thing is surreal because it's just more trolls spewing memes who don't have any clue what they're talking about and probably never play games anyways.