/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6939870
I live both

Action RPG
Consequently, Zelda is not an ARPG. It's an Action/Adventure game.

>>6939870
RtwP

>>6939883
How is it not an action RPG?

>>6939887
It doesn't have much in common with the TTRPGs the genre is derived from; there's no real focus on statistical upgrades to your character based on what kinds of actions they take. Yes, stats progression is the core element of TTRPGs, typically with a battle system of some kind, and No, finding objects around the world to use in your Adventure is not a stats progression system.
The term RPG stems from second wave tabletop games like DnD, which in turn derived from Wargames which were entirely about numbers crunch.

If you're going to try and arbitrarily define all games as RPGs then I have bad news about your IQ score.

>>6939870
Zelda is not an rpg faggot.

As it is, people loved Chrono Trigger because it fixed the le random battle. Jus' saying.

>>6939870
>Fable or Knights of the Old Republic?
They both offer different things.
I will say that as Action games, ARPGs tend to be inferior to character action games like DMC and NG, and the customization and options tend to be dwarfed by turn-based RPGs.
So given that it's not really the best of any world, I'd say ARPGs are categorically inferior to Turn-Based RPGs, with exceptions. But there's something to be said there about how removing randomness from combat and other gameplay aspects makes ARPGs satisfying in a way that TBRPGs rarely are.

>>6939902
Random battles aren't an issue. What's an issue is that they often have a lack of challenge and the limitations (i.e. items, resources) that used to be placed on games with them was taken away, making them "a problem" because you could just carry 99 potions and call it a day.

>>6939870
Chrono Trigger's active battle system.

>>6939870
>>>/vrpg/

>>6939898
Oh, and to clarify, Zelda II is actually an ARPG. The rest of the series is not.

>>6939920
Active Battle / Active Time Battle / etc is the worst compromise. The strength of turn-based combat is the rewarding of game knowledge over sheer button mashing. Active Battle strips a lot of that away but doesn't give the player any real ability to participate that makes up for it.
Chrono Trigger and FF get away with these systems because they're typically piss-easy and just require you to spam your strongest attacks or best buffs to win.
Games that do proper turn-based combat that requires strategy are much more rewarding, but in exchange they tend to filter their audience too much.

>>6939934
Plus you can't move your characters.

>>6939870
>>6939883
Not to mention Shining Force isn't even a turn-based RPG in the traditional sense, it's a tacticool RPG which is not remotely the same thing even though there's many parallels.

Mega Man Battle Network has the supreme RPG battle system mechanics and nothing else even comes close

>>6939963
TRPGs are essentially a subset of your standard JRPG.

>>6939974
Eastern and Western S/TRPGs are far closer to being the same genre than WRPGs and JRPGs.

>>6939883
>not an ARPG. It's an Action/Adventure game.
And Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix?

>>6939898
Every Legend of Zelda game is an action RPG. You sound like a complete fucking imbecile.

>>6939870
>>>/vrpg/
Back to your cuck den

>>6939921
>Does this mean RPGs are banned on other video game boards? No! /vrpg/ is just a separate board specifically focused on RPGs where discussions about your favorite games can thrive.
Fuck off. This is obviously for retro titles

>>6939982
Western TRPGs is just all faggy gunshit with no melee and no magic.

>>6939970
It does seem impressive. I'd have been into it if it wasn't Mega-Man-based.

>>6940004
Heroes of Might and Magic?

>>6940002
kys
>>6939916
It's lazy programming that started the shit.

>>6940002
see
>>6940003

>>6940008
Not the same genre as Jagged Alliance and Fallout Tactics, as you know.

>>6939998
You sound like you don't know what words mean

Not retro not retro not retro u6c6tc6tcgcg6 6 6g6 6g6 g6 g6 g6g 6g 7g 6g

Nnot rerrtoot r6tc6ctgt6c6ro not r6tc 6g g6v6h y6c6tv6g c g 6g5 g6etro not retro u6c6tctertro 6tcgcg6 6 6g6 6g6 gn6 not retrrrrrr g6 g6not retrog 6g 7g 6g z6rfr6x6f not retti rr6r6r6x6rt6c77gv6gc7hugcugh uh ij7h7hbbijihvh77v8hb7hbnnotretrgo 7hb8bhj8jb8j8jbhv77hvv7hv7hvv7hh7v7vh7uu uh uh uh no not retro no4frtrrhuo

>>6940114
How is it not retro?

>>6939902
Why are you using a tripcode?

>>6940252
>in case no like filter
Increase in board quality ^
>here all day and can desuarchive to search username to stalk self to check out history of conversations
Another reason ^
>retard checking boards to see if wild npc's chimp out over it
Yet another reason ^
>having no life means I need to make identities online to keep from going crazy
The real reason ^

>>6939902
holy shit, all namefags are bad posters but you've taken it to a new level

>>6940404
use your words

Turn based needs engaging systems to hold my interest, which most of them don't have, so action RPG.

Zoomers ruined this board.

>>6940461
Make an argument for why you like what you like, and stop being a bitch.

>>6940423
beat your children

>>6939870
Apples and oranges. I prefer action but enjoy some turn based games too

>>6940642

Japanese people are retarded so who cares what they think an English initialism means when they call a buffet a "viking".

Source: I live in Tokyo. Everyone's retarded.

>>6940673
Would you prefer American people?

>>6940679
>contra 3
>a bit on the easy side

>>6939870
Real time with pause

>>6939998
he's right zoomie

>>6939870
>>6940023
>>6939934
>>6939921
Turn-based rpgs have more potential to be engaging than hybrids or pure action games tb honest.
In turn based games you're connected by your choices and thinking which is the highest form of agency a player can connect with because it's directly dependent on conscious deliberation and NOT automatic muscle memory. Think about an engineer approaching a physics problem or a detective trying to solve a murder mystery or think about yourself trying to fix a life problem by planning and preparation , every step is up to you, every wrong deduction is on you. This is far closer to expressing your willful agency than performing combos or dodges in an hybrid rpgs or action game because those ''actions'' depend A LOT on unconscious, automatic muscle performance.

When the player sits back and plans deliberately he has time to weigh options and calculate optimal scenarios, the solutions depend on his conscious thought process not his twitchy muscle memory. This is actually more freeing and connected than the action game player who has to hope his muscle memory and twitch reactions have been programmed to perform almost automatically and execute the combos, the head-shot or execute the dodge fast enough, often faster than he has time to consciously ''think'' about.

If you can't connect with good turn-based strategy games it means you can't connect with being a decision maker, with being a thinking agent at all. Maybe you're indecisive? Maybe you're very low IQ and also impatient? Maybe you have autism AND ADHD? Instead of being the thinking General you want to opt for being the automatic foot-soldier, preferring gameplay that is more about rote muscle memorization and conditioning your body to perform memorized actions, [almost unconsciously] rather than actively choosing each and every choice you make and thinking in real time. It's strange to find action game numbskulls praise action games over high IQ turn strategy games!

>>6941038
ok this is awesome

>>6941021
Only zoomies like you think it isn't an RPG.

wtf I love turn based rpgs now >>6941038

Turn based on what?

>>6939870
Neither game is an RPG, holy shit, what an absolute retard lmao

>>6939887
Action/adventure is when there are no levels, experience and stats. Action/RPG is action/adventure + the so-called "rpg mechanics", i.e. stats and levels and exp and HP.

Top-down:
A Link to the Past = action/adventure
Ys = action/rpg
Side-scrolling:
Super Metroid = action/adventure
Symphony of the Night = action/rpg
3d:
Ocarina of Time = action/adventure
King's Field = action/rpg

>>6939898
>they represent the stats progression using graphics such as heart containers and colored tiers of equipment rather than autismo numbers therefore it isn't an arpg hurrr durrrrrr

>>6940007
He's exaggerating, but it is really fun. You should give it a try. It really doesn't matter if you like Rockman or not. You're pretty much just playing as a kid who uses him as an avatar.

Guys, don't be stupid.
"Action/RPG" is short for "action/adventure with RPG elements". "RPG elements" in video games is a misnomer that means "levels, exp and stats, so killing more monsters makes the game easier".
Zelda games are all action/adventure games with the exception of Zelda II, which is an action/adventure/RPG (action/rpg for short).
Action/rpgs is a style of gameplay that originates on Japanese home computers. Consoles often had action/adventures without any "rpg elements" or outright JRPGs without any action, but computer games were more like Ys.
Western PCs had a completely different genre also called ARPG, which are Diablo clones and, retroactively, precursors.

>>6941038
wtf I love final fantasy now

>>6941038
Imagine being an engineer but you have to plan and solve a problem within a certain time limit, yea that's what action games are. Basically everything you said but with the added dimension of time, how fast can you solve this problem with decision making. Sure some games can be stupidly simple but you are comparing action games at their worst to turn based at their best. There is nothing smart or requiring the mind of an engineer to select tackle over and over again

>>6941038
baste

Wish I made that post.

>>6941516
>you're comparing action games at their worst
False, single player action games have this problem no matter if they are good or bad. Most of their problems vastly emphasize muscle memory performance over real-time thinking and strategy.

That's why scrubs can crank out pro-looking TAS runs easily and quickly, because the limiting factor is mostly muscle memory.

>Imagine being an engineer but you have to plan and solve a problem within a certain time limit, yea that's what action games are.
more like, imagine being a janitor who has to clean the same toilets, of the same theater, every day, in the same order, under a time limit.

>>6941038
There's a call for you.

>>6941507
Go away coomer

>>6939870
I didn't know I had to choose a side.

>>6939870
Neither, I'm not a jarpig faggot.

>>6941038
You need to take the turn based redpill and play traditional roguelikes anon. No shoehorned story, bump combat (same system as rpg but dice rolls are automatic instead of menu driven then dice roll), rng so each game takes some thought. Tons of variation. They also punish people who are dumb enough to not be able to strategize resources and think bump combat takes no thought. It's literally the same without the additional inputs.

>>6941038
>>6941573
This statement is true to an extent, the only flaw in it, is that it doesn't apply to JRPGs, JRPGs are trivial and often based on luck or trivial rules.
It applies to puzzles in point & click/adventure, strategy games.
Also your muscle memory no brains theory at most would apply at single player action games and still it would be debatable, no muscle memory will serve you at all in a fast paced multiplayer game if the game isn't garbage and your opponent is good, you need to analize and strategize in real time how to beat him depending on his behavior.

Your post is very low-iq and is sad how all the brainless jarpigs who can't stay in their containment board applaud you.

>>6941038
Is this copypasta?

>>6941718
i enjoy wizardry games, certain srpgs, roguelikes and anything that demands thoughtful choices, experimentation and planning that engages my mind more than my fingers. I avoid games that emphasize grinding over strategy.


>>6941739
>is that it doesn't apply to JRPGs, JRPGs are trivial and often based on luck or trivial rules.
I agree that mainstream JRPGs don't ask much of the player. I was talking about good strategy games though, maybe if you read the last part you'd notice that qualification.

>>6941748
It's my copy pasta that I edit now and then, but I created it.

>>6941778
Have you considered playing parser-based text adventures?

>>6941778
>i enjoy wizardry games, certain srpgs, roguelikes and anything that demands thoughtful choices
Examples?

>>6939887
>>6939998
>>6941125
Roleplaying games use some sort of an abstraction between you and how your character interacts with the world. Which is normally some sort of stats/dice rolling etc. The whole point is to remove player skill and ability.
A Link to the Past has no such abstraction so it isn't an RPG.
Action RPGs share the same abstractions but since action plays a big part in player interaction, skill and ability are in play(usually combat), they are designated a differently. So paradoxically ARPGs technically don't fix the definition of P&P RPGs. Since it's easier we just roll with it.

You can argue about the awkwardness of the definition of RPG if you like but it's because it was defined with P&P in mind. It's the best we have and at this point it's pretty intuitive anyway.

>>6941835
I'm playing wizardry gaiden iv now and liking it.

>>6942249
Anything post NES?

>>6942292
Wizardry Gaiden IV is on snes and the fan translation is good. Before this I played Shiren the Wanderer 5.

>>6940750
it can work. for example, FTL is great

>>6939934
>Chrono Trigger and FF get away with these systems because they're typically piss-easy and just require you to spam your strongest attacks or best buffs to win
not so different than other games in the genre

>>6941038
>I don't know what instinct is the post
not surprising in the least because that concept can't be grasped with thinking

>>6941038
I didn't read any of this but if it's this long then it must be wrong

>>6940750
Like VATS in Fallout 3?

>>6941038
this is all true about memorization based games versus thinking games, but most people aren't eloquent enough or smart enough to express it